Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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For real, mega Weavile, aka CP, is gonna be more like gen9 pre-home Weavile in OU for at least the first few days after home drops

if mag, Zam, and zam 2 last more than a few days, it’ll have a bit more breathing space. Obviously it’s at that point when people see how OP it is. Kinda like how Chi Yu sucked out all the attention from everything else and then CP just replaced it as the choiced bruiser, 2hkoing everything.

eleki will 100% be a major threat in such an offense heavy meta. It’s more powerful , and speedier than dragapult. It’s only limited by being a predictable Tera and volt switch being blockable.

Eleki also majorly threatens the rocky helmet users, zapdos, etc which will crop up as answers to zamazenta. Whilst both eleki and CP can threaten the ghosts, only eleki can switch out of them on the same turn to avoid damage (or force out a Tera ground volt switch block, and returned KO at worst)

Kinda reminds me of people saying, “it’s okay, palafin has to switch out first, which majorly affects your momentum”, lol. We all know how minor that switching out was when you compared it to what it could do after that.
 
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Haven't posted on forums in a long while and I've been having extensive discussions on the potential of the returning mons, what will or wont be OU. I just thought I'd share my predicts.

Banned Mons: A trifecta of :Magearna: , then :Zamazenta-Crowned: , and then :Regieleki: . (Chien-Pao goes as well but I'm only going to be discussing RETURNING mons).

:Magearna: I don't think this requires much diving into. While AV and CM-Split type sets will bring nice value to the tier, the pain that is specs and most offensive varients is as bad as its always been. I reckon for as long as Magearna keeps its SS movepool editions, it will never return to OU again. Also while on the topic I thought I'd put in a great meme of a calc:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fairy Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skeledirge: 202-238 (49.1 - 57.9%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
Absolutely heinous this thing is. Anyways, moving on.

:Zamazenta-Crowned: Despite his nerfs I don't think his usual strengths have been taken down enough notches; checking it defensively was always possible, even in SS, but forcing this mon out without sacrificing health on something or just losing a mon was a fucking impossible task. Very Melmetal-Esque in that regard, but Melmetal didnt outspeed your usual choice band close combat clicker. Naturally tera adds further grievances in your futile attempts to force this mon out as it just ID's or Howls up and dominates your team slow and steady.

:Regieleki: Tera ice funny. Boots will be good undying and unpunishable progress maker, and specs is just going to be a click button. Tera'ing eleki isnt always ideal since despite what many would want to believe, tera'ing does indeed have opportunity cost, but even if you don't, similar to its functionality in SS, its ability to force out any offensive mon and force in your ground type seemlessly was incredible. Also regular tera blast is still a welcome move over fucking swift/hyper beam.


This next bit I will just post a tierlist I made regarding my thoughts on the mons left:

NOTE: Zama-H didn't have a sprite, the Zama-Crowned you see below is meant to indicate Hero form. Also Urshifu is rapid strike here as Single is banned.

View attachment 520232



Meta:
:Zapdos: With or without gen 8 transfer moves (defog), will be amazing. We've been thirsting for a real ground immune, and zap offensively applies good pressure too with its hurricanes and volt switches. Heat wave isnt super desperately needed, as you don't have Ferrothorns to deal with. You can set it however you need.
:Heatran: Self explanitory. Rocks taunt, wisp taunt, balloon shit. Good mon. Will need anti tera-ground volc sets.
:Slowking-Galar: As good as always, both future sight and sludge bomb are not as dire necessary as in SS, and pex not being able to knock you means you can get it in 100 times unpunished. With tera it can be teched to handle all threats you may deem necessary.
:Landorus-Therian: Physdef rocker with smack down eq uturn, SD sets, or scarf w/random tera blasts. Pick your goat and load. Even with all his lost moves, Lando do what Lando do. Next.
:Ursaluna: Mon is very melmtal-esque. Slow, bulky but not permanent, super chip-prone but really tough to force out in one go (252 atk tusk CC doesnt kill just max hp). Guts SD, 4 attacks, BU, choice band, or AV bulletproof all good with many moves and many teras. Exciting mon and likely going to be in a meta that it can well abuse.
:Hoopa-Unbound: Broken unwallable button masher and now in a gen with tera and no pursuit. Do the math.
:Sneasler: Definitely overhyped, will be annoying but i think people are overly shitting their pants over the prospect of a potential sleep/para/poison. Especially considering poison stab isnt exactly the msot favourable to click. You're not forcing out a lot with that, so you're gonna be making hard reads just to fish for something. P-point uturn will def be annoying but I don't see it being as broken as some people have been dooming about.
:Zamazenta: Meh power breaker w/o a choice band, heavily 4mss'd, awkward solo typing, mediocre ability, but in turn it has great speed, movepool, defences, and tera to abuse. Will be nice for balance/bulky offence to have a progress maker that also prevents the Kingambit L pretty reliably. I think it will stay.
:Urshifu: SD is a cool edition, hard to speak for its impact in a very offensive meta, and even if u do run into a bulkier team there is risks of stuff like Dondozo, Toxapex, Amoongus etc. Obviously you can pick and tech your set to break those individually, but all in all I think band will be the usual go-to.
:Moltres-Galar: Baby espthra

Rapid fire notes on the Solid list: :Volcanion: got taunt which is a massive buff to the HDB set that I don't understand how its gone under the radar of discussion. Will definitely have good impact breaking wise and filling defensive holes like fire/fairy resist and water immune. :Enamorus: is pretty self explanatory we can all see its stats and movepool. Specs, Scarf, Boots CM/Boots 4a all good. :Rillaboom: only here under the possibility that we get gen 8 transfers back and he comes with glide. Grassy support is busted and as is Glide Rilla. :Tornadus-Therian: more limited without knock off and defog but taunt uturn hurricane still is good check to grounds/fights and AV can sponge and pivot like always. Plot could be good as well. :Thundurus-Therian: For the first time, Thundy-T gets to exist with boots AND a viable double-dance set. And fret not, u dont need to tera into a shitty ice type. Fairy and flying tera blast dominate the upcoming meta just as hard! Try him out asap. :Lilligant-Hisui: :Regidrago: both kind of the same flavor of mon, could be strong tera + setup threats with good alt set options too. Victory Dance, Band, Scarf or DD, Specs, Scarf. All work. Note for Regidrago: the 2 whole relevant fairies will drop to EP + Ancient Power Specs, so u don't have to run weird tera blasts, just commit to tera dragon energry. :Zapdos-Galar: Can abuse lando, hits hard, resists sucker, breaks tusk, can u-turn. Properties of a potential good mon if you ask me.

Won't explain the rest, their tier name kind of explains the entirety of what I think about them. Ty to anyone who gave it all a read.
Bruh why is Overqwil and Muk-Alola below Articuno. You can’t tell me an Ice/Flying type is better defensively than a Poison/Dark, even if it has recovery.
 
I just realised choice band zamazenta can use Tera fairy Terablast and turn into its sword counterpart, but with a more powerful close combat, and it still outspeeds everything. Basically it’ll function like choiced valiant, but better (at the cost of blowing your Tera)

If poisons/ghosts were an issue, nothing wrong with going flying, ground or even ghost Tera blast for near perfect STAB neutral coverage from its base 120 attack. Tera dark crunch is another legitimate option that maintains the gambit resistance, improves the dirge 1v1, and makes a better matchup in games where you don’t want to Tera
 
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Regieleki is gonna be stupid broken with banded Urshifu Rapid. Urshifu u-turning on the bulk waters in forces in and letting Regi go crazy is gonna be really hard to stop. Could even pair with rain for 100% accurate thunder and extra power on surging strikes.
 
I just realised choice band zamazenta can use Tera fairy Terablast and turn into its sword counterpart, but with a more powerful close combat, and it still outspeeds everything. Basically it’ll function like choiced valiant, but better (at the cost of blowing your Tera)

If poisons/ghosts were an issue, nothing wrong with going flying, ground or even ghost Tera blast for near perfect STAB neutral coverage from its base 120 attack. Tera dark crunch is another legitimate option that maintains the gambit resistance, improves the dirge 1v1, and makes a better matchup in games where you don’t want to Tera
It can use Play Rough and not be tera reliant every time.
 
Scald is still a TR in SWSH, so everything with that in SWSH Will still have it
This is not how it works ftr. Anything you have in SWSH with Scald taught via TR will not keep it moving to Gen 9. The move relearner in Gen 9 only lets you relearn level up moves you'd already have at that point in SV. Nothing more. No old event moves, no old TMs, nothing.

Scald on anything not named Volcanion is DEAD!
 
This is not how it works ftr. Anything you have in SWSH with Scald taught via TR will not keep it moving to Gen 9. The move relearner in Gen 9 only lets you relearn level up moves you'd already have at that point in SV. Nothing more. No old event moves, no old TMs, nothing.

Scald on anything not named Volcanion is DEAD!
Omfg this os ridículous looooooi like, I know It was bad, but not at that point
 
Bruh why is Overqwil and Muk-Alola below Articuno. You can’t tell me an Ice/Flying type is better defensively than a Poison/Dark, even if it has recovery.

I was going off the idea we were given that mons would regain moves the learned across the games SS/BDSP/PLA. Articuno in theory wouldve gotten defog and couldve been a niche shitmon defogger on stall builds.


All that being said, as of right now we know transfer moves are indeed not existing, so that falls, as foes Rillaboom on my list. Shame!
 
RIP weavile, one of my faves..

hopefully the next cartridge game brings you a useful ability and knock off.

knowing how trolly gamefreak can be .. they might just give weavile technician and break it, they might even give breloom an evo with 550 BST



So no scale shot garchomp?

and no grassy glide rillaboom :(
 
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We had a confirmed case in the smogon discord of someone attempting to relearn Meteor Beam with their Rolycoly transferring through home. They could not. Anything like an IoA move tutor is gone.
now all we need to confirm if the Legends Arceus mons lose their moves too and we can officially deem this as the most pointless "relearner" of all time

Edit:
Recover Cresselia gets reset too, which is a PLA level-up move. Transfer moves are dead.
Nvm, FUK Home relearner. Why did they even bother?
 
now all we need to confirm if the Legends Arceus mons lose their moves too and we can officially deem this as the most pointless "relearner" of all time
PLA moves work like other movepools. You can't relearn your quirky new moves. They did Empoleon dirty.

The only real intergenerational transfer thing I spy so far is some stuff to do with TM moves. If your Pokemon had a move that's a TM in Gen 9 that it can also learn in Gen 9, you can relearn it. I moved a Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam Gardevoir from PLA to SV. I was given the option to relearn Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt, but not Ice Beam (Gardevoir can't learn Ice Beam in Gen 9). So like, your Gyarados can keep Waterfall from SWSH, but not Power Whip.
 
So no scale shot garchomp?

and no grassy glide rillaboom :(

Damn and I was hoping for these two the most. How great that they introduced whatever that item is that makes multi hit moves guarantee to hit four times only for Garchomp not to get the damn scale shot. I guess that we're gonna have to wait for the dlcs to drop and maybe we'll get a new move tutor with the IoA tutor moves. FFS

I'm starting to wonder if this Home update was a bit rushed because some idiot tweeted that it would have dropped on the 24th when it wasn't ready and they need to rush something out before people get too pissed off. Could be wrong but with all the disappointing games that's been released in recent memory, I wouldn't be surprised if pokemon jumped on the bandwagon
 
now all we need to confirm if the Legends Arceus mons lose their moves too and we can officially deem this as the most pointless "relearner" of all time

Edit:
Nvm, FUK Home relearner. Why did they even bother?
I'm pretty sure the point always was to just make it easier to get your old moveset back if transfer to a game that deletes your moves, I don't know why everyone got their hopes up
 
Bummed about no transfer moves? Well, we actually do have sorta kinda transfer moves... for like three Pokemon? It turns out that this whole system of relearning old moves includes egg moves. This means that some Pokemon who got Head Smash Nosepassed out of some of their egg moves get them back again. There were some Pokemon we knew would get this treatment upon Home's release (Rabsca gets Cosmic Power now since it can Mirror Herb it from Arceus, most notably), but there were some Pokemon who still wouldn't have had valid parents even with the Home imports. These Pokemon can have their moves now.

Most notably, Chansey got Heal Bell Back!

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There are ultimately only three Pokemon this affects. Chansey gets Heal Bell and Psyduck + Spoink get Simple Beam. Still, pretty relevant move on Chansey. Have fun stalling and regurgitating "5 more minutes, mom".
 
With the revelation of transfer moves being mostly gone, what're people's opinions on Volcanion? Now that it's confirmed to be one of the only mons in the tier (if not the only one, not sure whether it's the only one yet, someone fact check that) with Scald and a super powered one at that, are your views on it any higher (surely not lower right...?) or mostly the same?
 
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