AV Luna is great, it 1v1s basically every hex user and most wisp/twave users. Being able to switch into dragapult and ghold without having to scout them first is really nice. Main problem I run into using it is that it ends up forcing a lot of switches, but requires good prediction to actually make progress off of said switches.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Don't forget Body Slam! My usual slash in the final slot. Very spammable, even with the ghost types running around.
I'll one-up Ursaluna with an even better AV abuser:
Iron Hands @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Volt Switch
- Earthquake
I consider this the best Iron Hands set in SV OU. It's bulky enough to handle some of the biggest, baddest special attackers in Kyurem, Walking Wake, Raging Bolt, Iron Moth, and Gholdengo. Drain Punch is there as your primary STAB of choice, while Ice Punch and Earthquake provide all the coverage it really needs. Volt Switch is perfect to get it out of trouble and pivot out to a better breaker. Tera Fire is a nice patch if something wants to try and play Will-o-Wisp games.
Some spicy calcs from this chef:
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 213-252 (41.6 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands in Sun: 192-226 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 441-520 (86.3 - 101.7%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO
132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands in Sun: 129-153 (25.2 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 90-106 (17.6 - 20.7%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 219-258 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
Iron Hands @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Volt Switch
- Earthquake
I consider this the best Iron Hands set in SV OU. It's bulky enough to handle some of the biggest, baddest special attackers in Kyurem, Walking Wake, Raging Bolt, Iron Moth, and Gholdengo. Drain Punch is there as your primary STAB of choice, while Ice Punch and Earthquake provide all the coverage it really needs. Volt Switch is perfect to get it out of trouble and pivot out to a better breaker. Tera Fire is a nice patch if something wants to try and play Will-o-Wisp games.
Some spicy calcs from this chef:
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 213-252 (41.6 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands in Sun: 192-226 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 441-520 (86.3 - 101.7%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO
132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands in Sun: 129-153 (25.2 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 90-106 (17.6 - 20.7%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 219-258 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
You could substitute Guts for Bullet Proof. It wouls mean you’re immune to Darkrai’s Focus Blast/Sludge Bomb, Cinderace’s Pyro Ball, Dragapult and Gholdengo’s Shadow Ball (after Tera), Iron Moth’s Energy Ball, and Weather Ball.
What if Double-Edge over Facade since it is the strongest option without resorting to Flame Orb but it does make it have less longevity
Naw, one of the big reasons to use Ursaluna is for status absorption. Whether you’re Orb or AV a big part of what you bring is that ability to switch in on Wisp/Toxic, and gain a huge boost to punish the status user.
I think Facade is the best move for AV bear. Its very easy to activate Toxic Debris from the common Glimmora or a poison from Glowking/Clodsire. Pult spamming Wow, Moltres with Flame Body, Zapdos with Static, Pecharunt, both Sun setters, etc. Lots of common ways to get status. You are probably going to pair this AV Luna with either Alomomola (Wish) or Rillaboom (Terrain recovery) anyway, so there will be plenty of chances to get the status.
Guts imo is kind of mid. Needing to be statused is one of the reasons why Ursaluna-BM is Ubers while regular Ursaluna is UUBL despite advantages like Facade being better than Blood Moon.
Guts relies on you being either Paralyzed, Burned, or Poison, and only protects you from Physical move drop from burns. You still take constant chip damage each turn from Burn and Poison/Toxic, and you still have chance to lose a turn 25% of the time from Paralysis.
Additionally, what are you absorbing?
You’re immune to Thunder Wave.
Only Serperior uses Glare and it’s also a Grass type (and you’re still paralyzed too)
Scald/Matcha Gotcha are both super effective against you.
You can be Toxic’d by Gliscor, but every Gliscor runs Protect so the chip damage is gonna stack up fast.
Pecharunt will just confuse you and Parting Shots out.
Toxic Spikes isn’t really absorbed since its a hazard (aka passive) and Ursaluna isn’t a Poison type.
And Cinderace/Darkrai/Dragapult will only use Will-O-Wisp on certain sets, which they can just choose Thunder Wave sometimes, and Darkrai can blast you with Focus Blast.
The only status you’re really absorbing is Will-O-Wisp from Moltres.
And you’re not really absorbing these status moves either (besides Burn). You’re just getting a consolation prize for something that’s still ultimately bad and up to the opponent.
Oh and like you can use tons of other Pokemon that do actually absorb status moves like Gliscor, Garg, and Gholdengo.
On the flip side, AV with Bullet Proof makes you a better tank. You make yourself better against multiple Pokemon whose coverage options would cause trouble.
Like for example;
252 SpA Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Ursaluna: 164-194 (40.8 - 48.3%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Ursaluna: 213-252 (53.1 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
132 SpA Tera Grass Iron Moth Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Ursaluna: 176-210 (43.8 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
32 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ursaluna: 144-171 (35.9 - 42.6%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ursaluna: 174-205 (43.3 - 51.1%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Ursaluna: 338-398 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
0 SpA Pelipper Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Ursaluna in Rain: 188-224 (46.8 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
0 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Tera Fairy Ursaluna: 128-152 (31.9 - 37.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after 1 layer of Spikes (you also have a decent chance at being poisoned too).
You also completely blank Gholdengo and Dragapult with the respective Tera type.
Now Guts is good, but only when you have Flame Orb. Otherwise Guts isn’t as useful as you’d think.
I remember how much I loved this as a momentum preserver via Volt Switch, though I value Luna's ability to tank a status.I'll one-up Ursaluna with an even better AV abuser:
Iron Hands @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Volt Switch
- Earthquake
I consider this the best Iron Hands set in SV OU. It's bulky enough to handle some of the biggest, baddest special attackers in Kyurem, Walking Wake, Raging Bolt, Iron Moth, and Gholdengo. Drain Punch is there as your primary STAB of choice, while Ice Punch and Earthquake provide all the coverage it really needs. Volt Switch is perfect to get it out of trouble and pivot out to a better breaker. Tera Fire is a nice patch if something wants to try and play Will-o-Wisp games.
Some spicy calcs from this chef:
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 213-252 (41.6 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands in Sun: 192-226 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 441-520 (86.3 - 101.7%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO
132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands in Sun: 129-153 (25.2 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 90-106 (17.6 - 20.7%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 219-258 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
EDIT: Sorry, goofed a quoting
Imo in my many hours of using it I think Bullet Proof is best on set up sets (they always assume guts), but guts is better on AV Luna. You can very often predict a toxic (Gliscor largely) and get to have a free huge boost. I've won so many games leading Ursaluna on Gliscor turn 1 and nab a OHK with an ice punch that's been boosted. It also lets you sit on moltres, zapdos, with Para being a boon more than a neg cuz you're slow already. Zapdos and Moltres will get cocky and roost in your face letting you get a free EQ off to pressure them. Same with corv tbh.
I think between the two that Body Slam and Facade are the safest for what Ursaluna is best for with AV; Para spreading and/or using free burns/para's as a dmg boost is great. I think Double Edge has potential but you'd deffo need wish and/or grassy terrain to offset it.
I do feel like Ursaluna does have some untapped potential outside of the basic wallbreaking sets. We saw recently on the hellom / oldspicemike team defensive restalk bullet Ursaluna be used, serving as a strong special check to Gholdengo and Dragapult, as well as a switch-in to Cinderace (which is difficult to check otherwise due to a lack of Fire Resist. I think there is some merit in using Ursaluna in these more defensive roles compared to its competition like Ting-Lu or Great Tusk due to all the unique traits it brings. Only issue is the lack of utility, as Ursaluna may need to spend two moveslots on Resttalk and doesn't have moves like Rocks or Knock Off to make progress. I suppose Body Slam or Roar may have a niche to spread para or phase, but fitting either of these moves is tough.
Well it’s all fun and games until you’re randomly paralyzed 4 turns in a row and the game rewards your greedy opponent with free unpunished set up.
Also, Ice Punch is a KO on Gliscors using more Specially Defensive spreads
252+ Atk Ursaluna Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 304-360 (86.3 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
If they switch out, they are dead to Stealth Rocks
252+ Atk Ursaluna Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 304-360 (86.3 - 102.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Also it’s just generally a bad play to use Toxic against a Pokemon that’s known for having Guts and said Guts boosted Facades have a chance to OHKO you too.
252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 318-375 (90.3 - 106.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
And that goes back to my point about Guts without Flame Orb being unreliable. That tactic only works if your opponent makes a misplay and is also overkill unless your opponent has a specific EV spread.
Thank you to whoever started the AV Ursaluna discussion. Been really good alongside Wish support. A lot of fun!
I also saw really cool tech tonight on a webs team. That being Ability Shield Gholdengo. Makes a lot of sense if G-Weezing is seeing more play. Prevents loss of ability thus prevents defog. Very cool.
I also saw really cool tech tonight on a webs team. That being Ability Shield Gholdengo. Makes a lot of sense if G-Weezing is seeing more play. Prevents loss of ability thus prevents defog. Very cool.
Naturally the key distinction is knowing when to withdraw, leaving in Ursa 3 Para's in is hardly the ultimate gamer move. It's a resource like any other, albeit a resource that doesn't mind when the enemy tries to impede it through the usual means you'd try to debuff things
I should naturally preface that relying on *just* facade is honing on a singular aspect that isn't really the whole deal tbh. Doing 90 to a gliscor and forcing them out, after they try to either knock, toxic, or similar is a whole lot of progress considering how valuable Gliscors HP is. Trading a bit of chip on Ursa is usually a big trade, especially as you capitalize on trying to get rocks up or denying Gliscor protect turns. It's why the Wish team comps with it are so nice for ignoring the usual Gliscor gameplan, letting you threaten it repeatedly if not just OHK certain sets.
It's 'unreliable' insofar but the point is that it punishes anyone attempting to throw statuses around on your team, or that rely on flame body/para from the birds. Ursaluna will naturally mind either, and a status Ursa with Bullet Proof while cool, is nowhere near as threatening nor effective.
Especially when with the amount of status thrown around in some higher ladder games, its a lot easier than it might seem to have some random bullshit just nail Ursa on one of its many dive ins. I'm speaking from large experience here, as Ursaluna is one of my most used mons and the amount of games it gets status hit far exceeds the games it didn't. Cuz even the threat of bringing Ursa in to eat Wisp or similar can sometimes be enough to deter ample use LOL.
I think the biggest thing about Guts Ursa with no flame orb is how brainless you can be into the Kanto birds. With Bulletproof, there's a chance your bear gets owned and can no longer do its job all the way because it got status'd. Guts Bear into bird teams lets you spam attacks knowing that you'll become a wall breaking demon (with a real item).
Trust me when I say that you WILL be fully paralyzed when it matters the most. You WILL be put into scenarios where the winning move is to click Ice Punch or something once and you WILL be paralyzed 3 times in a row, while your opponent, who is fully aware that your Ursaluna with Ice Punch has Ice Punch and still Dragon Dances 3 times way more than what they need because the game will decide “well fuck you. You spent $60 + online on this game and I randomly decide that you can’t play and will make you lose a game you were just winning or a game that just started.”
Need I remind people that Paralysis and Double Team have the same chance of causing lost turns, at 25%.
Except that unlike Double Team or Flash or what ever, Paralysis will make all moves fail. It’ll make healing moves fail. It’ll make phasing moves fail. It’ll make Haze fail. It’ll make moves that bypass accuracy fail. It’ll make Heal Bell and Refresh fail. So not only are you at half speed, ALL your moves have less reliability than Stone Edge and the counterplay is way harder.
Sure Evasion has other upsides and I’m really glad Evasion is banned (when it is and we all didn’t have Sand Veil or Bright Powder legalized (both of which have lower chances for dodging than paralysis)), but Paralysis is ultimately better/more bullshit in practice. It is also an easy contender for most bullshit status effect, since Freeze and Sleep are easier to cure at least.
After taking a long break from mons I'm pleased at the meta I've returned to. I made a new alt and took it to top 100, and then did the same with my main- so after playing so many games post Moon ban I can honestly say OU is in a nice spot. I don't think anything is OP and all structures seem viable.
I have noticed Balance and BO are usually 1 mon away from getting swept by Zama, and Crunch def drops can muscle past that 1 or 2 checks they have, but that's more of a side note than anything. Zama has dedicated answers. It's a "baby's first wincon" kinda mon but w/e. Gambit doesn't feel comical anymore. Deserves respect obviously but it's so overprepared for these days it's sort of an uphill battle. I'm no longer losing sleep over the Kyurem debacle lol... it was fated that the mon stay OU because really, it's fine as well. I saw a specs Blizzard set paired w chilly Glowking which has like zero switch-ins but there's several ways to RK that. Val in a weird spot, but I am interested in CM + Tera Ground. Ghold is fine. Oger was always okay, same w Glis. Dnite can be cheesy but nbd. Darkrai w/e. Hazards don't seem so intense. Hazard stack is just a team structure u need to prep for like any other.
Tera is still janky and always will be. The tech chases and tera treadmill still go on but it's not terrible. After a few years ig you get used to it or play another meta. I'm used to it. Would have loved to see how SV would have unfolded without it, but it's fine. For every MU fish or random goofy tera momentum flip, you also have fun moments like Moth Tera Ground vs a Tran and it's satisfying. It also give lower tier mons another tool and that's p neat. The mechanic messes with end-game mapping sometimes, and there is still literal guesswork, but every gen has something technically uncompetitive about it- that's just mons.
TB ban/suspect would be a mistake and waste of time, imo. No TB would just take half the fun out of the mechanic. It would gear tera more on the defensive side and that sounds bad, or at least not any better than what we have. The mons that got banned due to TB aren't really missed. Dropping literally any Uber would be a bad move as well, obviously. BE isn't a problem. There's really no way to improve what we have now, and that's fine.
GF gave us a lot of good QoL changes this gen. Good nerfs, cool new mons, moves, mechanics, items, etc. It looks like the Moon ban somehow was the final piece of the puzzle- or really like the last Jenga piece pulled where the tower won't fall lol. Truly, we should just let this meta settle.
If you approach SV OU as a fast-paced game with some MU fishing and occasional Tera jank there is a good amount of enjoyment to be had. I would play this over SS OU, which is not something I would have said at any other time since SV dropped. Shout out to the OU council for their dedication to making SV OU good. There were legit dark times since launch, but through trial and error we're here now and I think this is a meta players could return to years later and say it's solid. I hope some players who have left return and give it another chance.
I have noticed Balance and BO are usually 1 mon away from getting swept by Zama, and Crunch def drops can muscle past that 1 or 2 checks they have, but that's more of a side note than anything. Zama has dedicated answers. It's a "baby's first wincon" kinda mon but w/e. Gambit doesn't feel comical anymore. Deserves respect obviously but it's so overprepared for these days it's sort of an uphill battle. I'm no longer losing sleep over the Kyurem debacle lol... it was fated that the mon stay OU because really, it's fine as well. I saw a specs Blizzard set paired w chilly Glowking which has like zero switch-ins but there's several ways to RK that. Val in a weird spot, but I am interested in CM + Tera Ground. Ghold is fine. Oger was always okay, same w Glis. Dnite can be cheesy but nbd. Darkrai w/e. Hazards don't seem so intense. Hazard stack is just a team structure u need to prep for like any other.
Tera is still janky and always will be. The tech chases and tera treadmill still go on but it's not terrible. After a few years ig you get used to it or play another meta. I'm used to it. Would have loved to see how SV would have unfolded without it, but it's fine. For every MU fish or random goofy tera momentum flip, you also have fun moments like Moth Tera Ground vs a Tran and it's satisfying. It also give lower tier mons another tool and that's p neat. The mechanic messes with end-game mapping sometimes, and there is still literal guesswork, but every gen has something technically uncompetitive about it- that's just mons.
TB ban/suspect would be a mistake and waste of time, imo. No TB would just take half the fun out of the mechanic. It would gear tera more on the defensive side and that sounds bad, or at least not any better than what we have. The mons that got banned due to TB aren't really missed. Dropping literally any Uber would be a bad move as well, obviously. BE isn't a problem. There's really no way to improve what we have now, and that's fine.
GF gave us a lot of good QoL changes this gen. Good nerfs, cool new mons, moves, mechanics, items, etc. It looks like the Moon ban somehow was the final piece of the puzzle- or really like the last Jenga piece pulled where the tower won't fall lol. Truly, we should just let this meta settle.
If you approach SV OU as a fast-paced game with some MU fishing and occasional Tera jank there is a good amount of enjoyment to be had. I would play this over SS OU, which is not something I would have said at any other time since SV dropped. Shout out to the OU council for their dedication to making SV OU good. There were legit dark times since launch, but through trial and error we're here now and I think this is a meta players could return to years later and say it's solid. I hope some players who have left return and give it another chance.
I have never heard a truer statement in my life my boi. Zamazenta is nowhere near the broken pokemon people make it out to be. A lot of teams already have solid answers to it like the Kanto birds, Glowking, Iron Valiant (if Zama doesn't tera) and plenty of others. I also do not think it should be S tier or even S- tier as there are plenty of pokemon that are better than it right now but that is a discussion for the vr forum page. Zamazenta is not broken and I think the tier is fine the way it currently is.
SV OU did not start with a great first impression only because the learning curve is much steeper and it plays so differently than past gens with Tera. It's not just a power crept mess. It's a DPP / BW / SM Ubers tier dressed up as OU in name only because momentum changes on a turn so frequently that it can be unsettling to lose when playing well every turn before that. I do have to say I have appreciated the increased complexity as time goes on because unlike any other tier, time spent in the builder directly correlates to improved ladder performance. Every single move, item, and Tera decision matters, and if you don't bring your A game, expect to lose early and often on the ladder. There is no such thing as "warm up to 1400" like it was even a year or two ago. Players are much better overall and the complexity is needed to keep the game fresh.
Yeah.... I won't lie, I see this perspective as well.
A lot of cooler low tier / underexplored mons like Heatran, Serperior, Enamorus, Lilligant-Hisui, Quaquaval, Thundurus-T and others like AV Pex feel like they are hard carried by or significantly benefit from the option use Tera Blast to cover their otherwise bad MUs into a few key Pokemon. You can expand the pool further if you include more junk like Glaceon, Jolteon, Yanmega, Basculegion, etc. as well as cooler sets like Specs Tera Blast Fairy Raging Bolt. It might be the biggest that encourages branching out Tera options from the standard shit (though Fairy TB is still the best lol).
I do agree with the Zama point as well.... lately I have been finding it very annoying to answer it on a few random Balance / BO teams I make, particularly Tera Fire sets since that ignores Pult Wisp + can break through Gking. But on the flipside it is also an important answer to a lot of bullshit. I've been finding Meow / Weav / Darkrai much trickier to handle lately, so I appreciate its presence to cover those Pokemon. And on my end, Zama feels like it has a lot of spots where its difficult to make progress w/.
I don’t see what’s so fun about Tera or Tera Blast tbh. I get the set variety thing, but at the end of the day it’s just used more often as cheese. Hidden Power has been gone for two generations now, and no one misses it. Tera Blast is just that except way more powerful, and way more parasitic. It’s a good thing for mons to have dedicated weaknesses, and hurdles that they can’t jump through alone. Tera Blast in large part enables Pokemon to just be catch all threats that are almost impossible to correctly prepare for, and play around.
If Tera is used as a largely defensive tool that’s fine. If we as a community wanna allow so many must answer threats in the tier than we need Tera for its defensive qualities. Not like offensive Tera dies either. You’ll still have offensive mons using Tera to gain momentum, or a power boost to end the game. Tera Blast is just largely unneeded to keep the game interesting/evolving, and will continue to keep pushing mons over the edge.
If Tera is used as a largely defensive tool that’s fine. If we as a community wanna allow so many must answer threats in the tier than we need Tera for its defensive qualities. Not like offensive Tera dies either. You’ll still have offensive mons using Tera to gain momentum, or a power boost to end the game. Tera Blast is just largely unneeded to keep the game interesting/evolving, and will continue to keep pushing mons over the edge.
Aside from Kyurem, I don't think there are really other controversial Tera Blast users in SV OU right now, and I doubt that more will arise. Dragonite is a fine and balanced mon with clear weaknesses, such as how it often doesn't run non-Tera STAB options outside of the uncommon Scale Shot, how it has a very mediocre speed tier for a boosting threat, how its threat level goes down if you manage to break Multiscale, which is doable considering how it's used as a glue mon that checks so many mons in the meta, and how its base typing leaves it weak to good attacking types such as Fairy, Ice, Dragon, and Rock, which also forces a lot of sets to run Heavy-Duty Boots.
Even with Dragonite's Tera Type diversity, it's much less of a threat than Roaring Moon was, and defensive counterplay for it is pretty reliable for the most apart whereas previously banned mons from SV OU had a much easier time to breaking defensive cores. That's why if Roaring Moon were to be the last ban of the generation I wouldn't be unhappy about that. Although I can see the case for banning Tera Blast since it'll reduce the variance in the tier, I don't think there are enough mons banned 'cause of this move that warrants suspecting/banning it with only Espathra, Regieleki, Volcarona, and Roaring Moon being banned directly from abusing it (Let's face it. Gouging Fire was broken even without Tera Blast).
Tera Blast's effect on the meta being more abstract makes it harder to ban since fewer people will naturally see it as a problem, which is largely why Tera Blast has never been one of the top two issues based on previous SV OU surveys since an unga boonga giga threat like Roaring Moon with Tera Blast is more likely to be seen as broken than Tera Blast itself when there aren't really many problematic Tera Blast users. As opposed to Shed Tail, which was clearly broken on the two OU-level users of the move, or Last Respects, which was insane for punishing players for getting into a winning state, it's harder to argue that Tera Blast should be banned when it doesn't cause anywhere near as much of a clusterfuck as Baton Passing stat boosts.
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Well, I am no fan of this OU generation, especially of Terastallization, I would like to give my opinion about Solagleo
Well, given how much Power Creep thre is in this generation, I mean we have stuff like Great Tusk, Kingambit, Zamazenta (being allowed in OU) and much more. Adding the fact that solgaleo is terrible in Ubera, being outclassed from Necrozma Dusk Mane. Due to these factors, people think it should be suspect tested and being able to be balanced in SV OU. This theory isn't rare, you see people talk it about it often.
Therefore I say my opinion, cutting the chase: No! Solgaleo shlodn't EVEN be suspect tested! NEVER!
I mean, just look at it AND its stats:
I mean for the bulk, it has 137 HP, 107 Defence and 89 Special Defence! This is absolutely disgusting, because it has no problems taking hits, even from types its weak against. Not to mention its superb Attack of 137, damn near Roaring Moon just missing by 2 points. Plus it has an acceptable Speed of 97. I mean, even for this generation's Power creep, this is crazy. Don't forget that there is Terastalization, making it more chaotic than it already is. While some peope would compare it to Iron Crown, Solgaleo has much more that Iron Crown: better bulk (In HP and Defence), better and more threatening offensive capabilities in its Attack and recovery.
Plue let's look at its movepool: it has boosting moves like Calm Mind and Iron Defence, stuff like Trick Room, pivoting option with Teleport, recovery in Morning Sun and great coverage: Close Combat for Dark types, Flare Blitz for other Steel types, Earthquake for Poison Types, Wild Charge or Stone Edge for Flying types and even Tera Blast.
+ 
➤ Trick Room:
Woith its great bulk and typing combination, Solgaleo has no problem into using Trick Room in the face of the opponent that doesn'z have Taunt or a way to directly kill it. Not to mention it has a pivoting move in Teleport, making it able to swithch out after it set Trick Room into a strong Behemoth that can rip the opponent's team apart in Trick Room. That makes Trick Room offense insanely good to the point of beaing unhelathy (maybe). Solgaleo practcally can det Trick Room very often and pivot out to strong offnece Pókemon, letting them able to sweep the opponent.
+ 
➤ Choice Band:
Either in Trick Room or normal battlefield, Solgaleo can use Choice Band, boosting its incredible 137 attack into a much more devastating attack. Plus it's not like Solgaleo lacks Coverage: it has Close Combat, Flare Biltz, Earthquake, Crunch, Wild Charge and Tera Blast, which it can surprise the opponent with a type they're weak against. Plus with its acceptable Speed of 97, it's not like it has porblems dealing damage. Not to mantion its signature ability: Full Metal Body, meaning you can't öower its stats.Plus hazards like Stealth Rock or Spikes, Solgaleo's golas tofaint the opponents becomes much easier.
+ 
➤ Weakness Policy Sweeper:
Given its great natural bulk and typing combination, Solgaleo can use Agility to boost its speed drammatically, letting it able to outspeed several Pókemon. With its mentioned great defensive factors, it can leave some Moves it's weak against (even better if it's set behind Reflect + Light Srceen or just Aurora Veil). If it take a hit, Weakness Policy activates, boosting its Attack and Special Attack by 2 stages. What's worse is once its set up, its boosts can't be stopped unless you have Haze or you are Unaware because it has its signatur ability Full Metal Body, preventing the foes of wekening Solgaleo's stats.
Not to mention with Terastalization, Solgaleo has even MORE chances to just spreading chaous as it's "Guess Its Set" game isn't problematoic enough. Solgaleo kinda reminds me of Magearna, but that "Magearna" has recovery in Morning Sun, better bulk and more deadly versatility. Overall I don't think Solgaleo should even be consider for a suspect in this or any future generations to come. It's just too strong for OU and I don't see any futeure where it can be a healty presence in any future OU Generations!
Thanks for reading out! See y'all!
Well, given how much Power Creep thre is in this generation, I mean we have stuff like Great Tusk, Kingambit, Zamazenta (being allowed in OU) and much more. Adding the fact that solgaleo is terrible in Ubera, being outclassed from Necrozma Dusk Mane. Due to these factors, people think it should be suspect tested and being able to be balanced in SV OU. This theory isn't rare, you see people talk it about it often.
Therefore I say my opinion, cutting the chase: No! Solgaleo shlodn't EVEN be suspect tested! NEVER!
I mean, just look at it AND its stats:
I mean for the bulk, it has 137 HP, 107 Defence and 89 Special Defence! This is absolutely disgusting, because it has no problems taking hits, even from types its weak against. Not to mention its superb Attack of 137, damn near Roaring Moon just missing by 2 points. Plus it has an acceptable Speed of 97. I mean, even for this generation's Power creep, this is crazy. Don't forget that there is Terastalization, making it more chaotic than it already is. While some peope would compare it to Iron Crown, Solgaleo has much more that Iron Crown: better bulk (In HP and Defence), better and more threatening offensive capabilities in its Attack and recovery.
Plue let's look at its movepool: it has boosting moves like Calm Mind and Iron Defence, stuff like Trick Room, pivoting option with Teleport, recovery in Morning Sun and great coverage: Close Combat for Dark types, Flare Blitz for other Steel types, Earthquake for Poison Types, Wild Charge or Stone Edge for Flying types and even Tera Blast.
+ ➤ Trick Room:
Woith its great bulk and typing combination, Solgaleo has no problem into using Trick Room in the face of the opponent that doesn'z have Taunt or a way to directly kill it. Not to mention it has a pivoting move in Teleport, making it able to swithch out after it set Trick Room into a strong Behemoth that can rip the opponent's team apart in Trick Room. That makes Trick Room offense insanely good to the point of beaing unhelathy (maybe). Solgaleo practcally can det Trick Room very often and pivot out to strong offnece Pókemon, letting them able to sweep the opponent.
+ ➤ Choice Band:
Either in Trick Room or normal battlefield, Solgaleo can use Choice Band, boosting its incredible 137 attack into a much more devastating attack. Plus it's not like Solgaleo lacks Coverage: it has Close Combat, Flare Biltz, Earthquake, Crunch, Wild Charge and Tera Blast, which it can surprise the opponent with a type they're weak against. Plus with its acceptable Speed of 97, it's not like it has porblems dealing damage. Not to mantion its signature ability: Full Metal Body, meaning you can't öower its stats.Plus hazards like Stealth Rock or Spikes, Solgaleo's golas tofaint the opponents becomes much easier.
+ ➤ Weakness Policy Sweeper:
Given its great natural bulk and typing combination, Solgaleo can use Agility to boost its speed drammatically, letting it able to outspeed several Pókemon. With its mentioned great defensive factors, it can leave some Moves it's weak against (even better if it's set behind Reflect + Light Srceen or just Aurora Veil). If it take a hit, Weakness Policy activates, boosting its Attack and Special Attack by 2 stages. What's worse is once its set up, its boosts can't be stopped unless you have Haze or you are Unaware because it has its signatur ability Full Metal Body, preventing the foes of wekening Solgaleo's stats.
Not to mention with Terastalization, Solgaleo has even MORE chances to just spreading chaous as it's "Guess Its Set" game isn't problematoic enough. Solgaleo kinda reminds me of Magearna, but that "Magearna" has recovery in Morning Sun, better bulk and more deadly versatility. Overall I don't think Solgaleo should even be consider for a suspect in this or any future generations to come. It's just too strong for OU and I don't see any futeure where it can be a healty presence in any future OU Generations!
Thanks for reading out! See y'all!
Last edited:
Bad post. No one has been discussing solgaleo suspect for months here but they will now in response- especially because you gave them some poor arguments to run off of. He doesn't learn stored power to start. Ill delete my response if you delete yours. There's time.Well, I am no fan of this OU generation, especially of Terastallization, I would like to give my opinion about Solagleo
View attachment 735105
Well, given how much Power Creep thre is in this generation, I mean we have stuff like Great Tusk, Kingambit, Zamazenta (being allowed in OU) and much more. Adding the fact that solgaleo is terrible in Ubera, being outclassed from Necrozma Dusk Mane. Due to these factors, people think it should be suspect tested and being able to be balanced in SV OU. This theory isn't rare, you see people talk it about it often.
Therefore I say my opinion, cutting the chase: No! Solgaleo shlodn'T EVEN be suspect tested! NEVER!
I mean, just look at it AND its stats:
View attachment 735104
I mean for the bulk, it has 137 HP, 107 Defence and 89 Special Defence! This is absolutely disgusting, because it has no problems taking hits, even from types its weak against. Not to mention its superb Attack of 137, damn near Roaring Moon just missing by 2 points. Plus it has an acceptable Speed of 97. I mean, even for this generation's Power creep, this is crazy. Don't forget that there is Terastalization, making it more chaotic than it already is. While some peope would compare it to Iron Crown, Solgaleo has much more that Iron Crown: better bulk (In HP and Defence), better and more threatening offensive capabilities in its Attack and recovery.
Plue let's look at its movepool: it has boosting moves like Calm Mind and Iron Defence, stuff like Trick Room, pivoting option with Teleport, recovery in Morning Sun and great coverage: Close Combat for Dark types, Flare Blitz for other Steel types, Earthquake for Poison Types, Wild Charge or Stone Edge for Flying types and even Tera Blast.
➤ Trick Room:
Woith its great bulk and typing combination, Solgaleo has no problem into using Trick Room in the face of the opponent that doesn'z have Taunt or a way to directly kill it. Not to mention it has a pivoting move in Teleport, making it able to swithch out after it set Trick Room into a strong Behemoth that can rip the opponent's team apart in Trick Room. That makes Trick Room offense insanely good to the point of beaing unhelathy (maybe). Solgaleo practcally can det Trick Room very often and pivot out to strong offnece Pókemon, letting them able to sweep the opponent.
➤ Calm Mind + Iron Defence + Stored Power:
Just like many other Pókemon, mainly Iron Crown or Latias, Solgaleo can use the deadly combination of Calm Mind and Iron >Defence, boosting its absolute longevity even more, making itr seemingly unkillable. That boosts Speed Power by 20 poingts pro boost and Solgaleo can sset up easily. Even with an OK 113 Special attack, solgaloe con dish out devbastating damage with STAB Stored Power, not to mention it has boosted its special attack too. Plus Solgale can use Coverage like Close Combat for Dark and Steel types. Plus Solgaleo can carry Leftovers for a small recovery or Weakness Policy, giving it even more boosts after eating a move it's weak against.
➤ Choice Band:
Either in Trick Room or normal battlefield, Solgaleo can use Choice Band, boosting its incredible 137 attack into a much more devastating attack. Plus it's not like Solgaleo lacks Coverage: it has Close Combat, Flare Biltz, Earthquake, Crunch, Wild Charge and Tera Blast, which it can surprise the opponent with a type they're weak against. Plus with its acceptable Speed of 97, it's not like it has porblems dealing damage. Not to mantion its signature ability: Full Metal Body, meaning you can't öower its stats.Plus hazards like Stealth Rock or Spikes, Solgaleo's golas tofaint the opponents becomes much easier.
➤ Weakness Policy Sweeper:
Given its great natural bulk and typing combination, Solgaleo can use Agility to boost its speed drammatically, letting it able to outspeed several Pókemon. With its mentioned great defensive factors, it can leave some Moves it's weak against (even better if it's set behind Reflect + Light Srceen or just Aurora Veil). If it take a hit, Weakness Policy activates, boosting its Attack and Special Attack by 2 stages. What's worse is once its set up, its boosts can't be stopped unless you have Haze or you are Unaware because it has its signatur ability Full Metal Body, preventing the foes of wekening Solgaleo's stats.
Not to mention with Terastalization, Solgaleo has even MORE chances to just spreading chaous as it's "Guess Its Set" game isn't problematoic enough. Solgaleo kinda reminds me of Magearna, but that "Magearna" has recovery in Morning Sun, better bulk and more deadly versatility. Overall I don't think Solgaleo should even be consider for a suspect in this or any future generations to come. It's just too strong for OU and I don't see any futeure where it can be a healty presence in any future OU Generations!
Well, I am no fan of this OU generation, especially of Terastallization, I would like to give my opinion about Solagleo
View attachment 735105
Well, given how much Power Creep thre is in this generation, I mean we have stuff like Great Tusk, Kingambit, Zamazenta (being allowed in OU) and much more. Adding the fact that solgaleo is terrible in Ubera, being outclassed from Necrozma Dusk Mane. Due to these factors, people think it should be suspect tested and being able to be balanced in SV OU. This theory isn't rare, you see people talk it about it often.
Therefore I say my opinion, cutting the chase: No! Solgaleo shlodn't EVEN be suspect tested! NEVER!
I mean, just look at it AND its stats:
View attachment 735104
I mean for the bulk, it has 137 HP, 107 Defence and 89 Special Defence! This is absolutely disgusting, because it has no problems taking hits, even from types its weak against. Not to mention its superb Attack of 137, damn near Roaring Moon just missing by 2 points. Plus it has an acceptable Speed of 97. I mean, even for this generation's Power creep, this is crazy. Don't forget that there is Terastalization, making it more chaotic than it already is. While some peope would compare it to Iron Crown, Solgaleo has much more that Iron Crown: better bulk (In HP and Defence), better and more threatening offensive capabilities in its Attack and recovery.
Plue let's look at its movepool: it has boosting moves like Calm Mind and Iron Defence, stuff like Trick Room, pivoting option with Teleport, recovery in Morning Sun and great coverage: Close Combat for Dark types, Flare Blitz for other Steel types, Earthquake for Poison Types, Wild Charge or Stone Edge for Flying types and even Tera Blast.
➤ Trick Room:
Woith its great bulk and typing combination, Solgaleo has no problem into using Trick Room in the face of the opponent that doesn'z have Taunt or a way to directly kill it. Not to mention it has a pivoting move in Teleport, making it able to swithch out after it set Trick Room into a strong Behemoth that can rip the opponent's team apart in Trick Room. That makes Trick Room offense insanely good to the point of beaing unhelathy (maybe). Solgaleo practcally can det Trick Room very often and pivot out to strong offnece Pókemon, letting them able to sweep the opponent.
➤ Choice Band:
Either in Trick Room or normal battlefield, Solgaleo can use Choice Band, boosting its incredible 137 attack into a much more devastating attack. Plus it's not like Solgaleo lacks Coverage: it has Close Combat, Flare Biltz, Earthquake, Crunch, Wild Charge and Tera Blast, which it can surprise the opponent with a type they're weak against. Plus with its acceptable Speed of 97, it's not like it has porblems dealing damage. Not to mantion its signature ability: Full Metal Body, meaning you can't öower its stats.Plus hazards like Stealth Rock or Spikes, Solgaleo's golas tofaint the opponents becomes much easier.
➤ Weakness Policy Sweeper:
Given its great natural bulk and typing combination, Solgaleo can use Agility to boost its speed drammatically, letting it able to outspeed several Pókemon. With its mentioned great defensive factors, it can leave some Moves it's weak against (even better if it's set behind Reflect + Light Srceen or just Aurora Veil). If it take a hit, Weakness Policy activates, boosting its Attack and Special Attack by 2 stages. What's worse is once its set up, its boosts can't be stopped unless you have Haze or you are Unaware because it has its signatur ability Full Metal Body, preventing the foes of wekening Solgaleo's stats.
Not to mention with Terastalization, Solgaleo has even MORE chances to just spreading chaous as it's "Guess Its Set" game isn't problematoic enough. Solgaleo kinda reminds me of Magearna, but that "Magearna" has recovery in Morning Sun, better bulk and more deadly versatility. Overall I don't think Solgaleo should even be consider for a suspect in this or any future generations to come. It's just too strong for OU and I don't see any futeure where it can be a healty presence in any future OU Generations!
I think the discussion just comes from this video
Please don’t derail the thread, including anyone I’m not replying to.