OU CCAT - Mark III (Laddering/Discussing - See Post #547)

[alexwolf]

Nah his ideas are actually good, its just his attitude that sucks... Shell Smash Gorebyss with BP and Hydreigon all sound as very good partners (i already talked about Hydreigon).

 

[Harsha]

Yeah, let's please not confine ourselves to the boundaries of a very specific playstyle like we did last time. I agree with PenguinX, we should keep this loose. If we go ahead and limit ourselves right now, we could end up regretting our moves down the road. Electrolyte, I think you should allow us to be broad right now. I don't build teams with sand in mind at the beginning, I add Tyranitar or Hippowdon to the team in order to patch things up.

Anyways, I'd like to see this wind up with an offensive team that pivots around Gliscor to sponge hits and maybe pass a Substitute while we're at it. The momentum we gain by using Gliscor is pretty great, and it can set up on so many physically based Pokemon that I'm sure we will enjoy its presence. Considering it covers up weaknesses to many of the Fighting-types and Ground-types in the tier, we can afford to be a bit more lenient with our weaknesses to these. We can afford to use a build that consists of Stealth Rock user / Gliscor / setup sweeper / setup sweeper / Choice Scarf user / utility probably, and this is pretty similar to the build I use on almost all my teams, so I definitely think it's solid.

Anyways returning to the original point, what happens if we end up trying to support another Pokemon's sweep and we suddenly can't because we've limited ourselves? I think we should reconsider that portion of the rules, Electrolyte, because my saying "LET'S USE SAND OFFENSE" will not really be that useful down the road. Going with a broader suggestion (my choice is offense) allows us to be a bit more free, and generally the outcome will be better. Also I hope everyone remembers that the team doesn't have to be based around Gliscor—it's hard to base it around a Pokemon that primarily walls.

 

[doughboy]

I would like to point out that we should also aim to use Gliscor abilities to gain momentum by dry-passing. It is basically the same as using U-turn on Gliscor. Take into account some of the Pokemon that usually switch in on Gliscor:

Rotom-W
Gengar
Mamoswine
Skarmory
Latios
Politoed
Ferrothorn

The ones I have put in bold are one's that can easily be trapped. With Baton Pass, this can easily be abused where Gliscor can facilitate the sweeps of other Pokemon on the team or remove his own counters. With this in mind, I would highly suggest a trapper of some sort with Gliscor. A Pursuit Trapper would be the easiest to implement, but Magnezone and Gothielle are possibilities as well. Personally, I believe these would be the best two choices in abusing dry-passing:

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- Stone Edge

Scarf Tyranitar is the first trapper to consider. With Choice Scarf, Tyranitar can proceed to outspeed Gengar and Latios and remove them from the game. This will allow us to open up a sweep for a Pokemon who is checked by Gengar/Latios or let us use Gliscor itself more effectively. Another important target that Tyranitar can trap is Starmie (switches in on Gliscor's expected Toxic and threatens with Surf) who is often the rapid spinner of choice for many rain teams (there has been a big increase in defensive Starmie). What Tyraniar gives us is weather control; it can switch on incoming Politoed's on Gliscor and make them take hazard damage without any change in weather!

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SAtk / 36 HP / 220 Spd
Timid Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Substitute

While Tyranitar aims to take on the Politoed's, Gengar's, and Latios' that switch in on Gliscor; Magnezone aims to trap the Steel's who come in on Gliscor. Often, people bring in Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory on Gliscor to set up some "free" Spikes. Well, dry-passing with Gliscor will let us trap them easily. Removing these Steel's are important to remove for sweeps (particularly Dragons; but they hsare Gliscor's ice-weakness). Essentially, Magnezone will give us hazard control since the Steel's that usually set up hazards will be removed. Gliscor covers Magenzone's (as well as Tyranitar's) annoying Ground and Fighting weaknesses. However, Magnezone can use Substitute more effectively than Tyranitar because it has the ability to switch up attacks. Magnezone can smack the water-types that hit Gliscor and can be used to spam his (unappreciated) powerful special attacks).

Just some thought :) Also I agree with Harsha we shouldn't confine ourselves to a playstyle. The direction the team will be going will be reflected in the votes of the individual pokemon (i.e. the best team mates) at each stage.

edit: Alexwolf there still is Toxic on there slashed with Taunt. But the point is that depending on the trapper that you use in order get rid of some of SubPass Gliscor's checks you can more easily select and get direction on the sweepers/offensive core of the the team.

 

[alexwolf]

DoughBoy i don't disagree with you, but it is too early to put trappers in the team. You put a trapper in a team to eliminate pokes that prevent your sweepers to sweep, or generally prevent your strategy from working. We don't have anhy sweepers as of now, nor any real strategy, so why chose the trappers so early? We must first choose set-up sweepers, wallbreakers and generally offensive pokes that benefit from the subpassing ability of Gliscor.

What's more is that Gliscor can already prevent all the steels from doing anything at all with Taunt, so why waste a teamslot for Magnezone when we already have them covered (as of now)?

 

[ginganinja]

While I was checking about defensive options, I noticed that Baton Passing Substitutes isn't exactly helpful at all, since playing with a number of bulkier and mostly slower Pokemon, not much will profit from Substitute. Due to Gliscor's high speed stat, it usually goes for Baton Pass before the opponent attacks, which means the Pass receiver will get hit by any move. Even if that doesn't exactly means the Sub will break, the opponent now knows what he/she has to deal with, giving our team just a few turns to take advantage of Substitute.
More aggressive teams (such as less bulkier, offensive teams) will have just another problem: they aren't really able to keep Substitute alive for more than a turn or maybe two, due to their fragility. That again means, without proper coverage, the opponent most likely can find a way to break through

No offence, but I don't think you understand how it works. First, you set up a substitute on something that will be forced out, your opponent brings in something with a water / ice attack, like Mamoswine. You Baton Pass your substitute to Cloyster, which tanks the Icicle Spear (Substitute is still up), you then Shell Smash as Mamoswine breaks the Sub and you can then go on a sweep. Sure, your substitute only lasted 2 turns, but thats not the point, because in those 2 turns, you got a free set up, and now you have a 100% sweeper, fully boosted, that can go on a sweep. I don't really know what you are smoking, when you imply that Offensive teams struggle to use Sub Pass Gliscor, its been used effectively ON Offensive teams, you just include 2 set up sweepers, 1 that resists ice, one that resists water, (if they resist both then go you!) then go to town. Using a Baton Pass chain means we just end up with your standard Baton Pass team (for example, we prolly need Mr Mime to block Perish Song T_T ), and its not the direction I personally want us to focus on.

Maybe I misinterpreted your post, in which case I apologise, but from what I read, it seemed that you were implying that Sub Pass Gliscor doesn't work with Offensive teams

 

[Lavos]

remember worms v. phil wcop 2011 finals? yeah me neither, but worms used a sort of baton pass gliscor on the team that won it all, it was a weatherless balanced team consisting of gliscor / heatran / virizion / haxorus / rotom-w / scizor, i feel like that's the sort of team style we should be advocating here as it's what bpscor functions best with.

so yeah my vote goes for weatherless balanced

 

[Electrolyte]

Harsha does really bring up a good point about restricting ourselves. Because I don't want to restart the whole project yet again, I'll announce that although the submissions should be specific right now we will base it loosely. I'm not going to say that Mr.Mime (hypothetically) HAS to be on my team just because I'm passing, no. Although we should have a strategy, we should be flexible, and should not have to abide by that strategy's strict rules. The only reason why I'm asking for specifics is so that what you're noinating is clear- just to point us in the right direction.

Of course, although it's a pretty major vote, we might as just ditch the whole thing and recreate the team how we see fit in the future. Just a possibility.

 

[dice]

Why did you even do this part, Electrolyte? It's unnecessary and it takes away from the idea of teambuilding.

When I teambuild I start with a core or Pokemon in mind, e.g. Heatran + Forre + Jellicent, or in this case Gliscor. Automatically choosing a playstyle after picking a Pokemon just already limits your team in general, and this is why Pocket and Ginganinja did not do so in the previous CCATs. As Harsha said, I use a Hippowdon or Tyranitar if I'm weak to something, or an Abomasnow, Ninetales, or Politoed if I want to benefit from their weather for my other Pokemon. (or sometimes the first choice in Abomasnow's case). Look at your previous thread, it was closed for a reason because this part of the voting should be excluded. Skip this part pls.

 

[tehy]

I disagree, bri. To be fair, i've never really built much but stall teams, but i used to build offense teams too. Once you get your jumping-off point, you have to decide if you're going defensive or offensive. Then, you decide what would work with it, what it needs, what breaks its check/counters, etc, etc. The thread was closed because of the giant sunstall/quickstall argument.

That having been said, i just realised-subpass gliscor is clearly an offense team pokemon. Defensive teams don't really need a sub passed, and they'd like their scor at full health, TYVM. So we probably don't need to choose which kind of offense-look at what scor needs, and see what comes of it.

 

[StairFall]

The probem I think lies in the fact that we're trying to build a team around a support pokemon, and if we choose a playstyle and find it doesn't fit it isn't supporting the team. If we had chosen a star for our team like a sweeper or staller or something it would go better. We're sitting here trying to figure out how to make sure gliscor supports the most it can, not how we can support it. That slightly limits teambuilding I feel. Not saying we should stop though.

As for my nomination, SubPass Gliscor needs to pass to something that appreciates a sub most, or at least a free switch in if the sub doesn't survive. Something that can do a lot of damage without a lot of set up, like scarf mence/hax/chomp. SubPass gliscor also can do most of what regular poison heal scor does even though it plays a bit more offensively. It has a great defensive typing with a decent STAB in ground and can check or wall a lot of things like terrakion. For that reason I nominate Semi stall with a late game cleaner. It let's gliscor work as a defensive pivot/staller as well as a offensive support 'mon by allowing a free switch and possibly a sub for a late game sweep of the opponent's weakened team. A sub let's a frail and fast monster take an extra hit and prolong it's sweep through the remains of the other team. Dragons in particular love the extra safety of a sub in case they hit themselves in outrage induced confusion.

 

[tehy]

But the problem with that, stairfall, is that that gliscor isn't really all that great as a general stall mon. It's got two moves that don't really add much, which makes it hard for it to do what it's supposed to do-no ice fang for dragons, and either no taunt or toxic for stallbreaking. The late game cleaner appreciates a sub, but that's about it for gliscor, so i don't feel that it's really pulling its weight on such a team.

 

[StairFall]

Maybe with paralysis support it could just alternate between sub and protect while the opponent struggles to get in an attack. You sub before it hits you and you have full hp to do it again after protect. Not to mention the fact that its immune to status makes it great at coming in and absorbing a spore or WoW. So it could work on a semi stall team as a pivot, though other pokemon could probably do this better.

 

[tehy]

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
evs: 248 HP / 24 Def / 236 Spe
Impish nature
~Substitute
~Baton Pass
~Earthquake
~Toxic / Taunt

So what are you replacing with protect? With EQ gone, it fails to have any offensive presence ever, kind of a problem-it doesn't impede so much it's ability to toxic stall, just its ability to check even stuff like lucario w/out ice punch, terrakion, so forth. With baton pass gone, it's no longer subpass gliscor, which was the point of the set. With toxic/taunt gone, you can't do much but stall endlessly. Really, it's going to be a mediocre pivot either way IMO, we should concentrate on its point, which is subpassing multiple times a game. And subpass only works if that sweeper isn't walled, which means we might as well have a lot of sweepers, cutting down on the likelihood of this happening.

 

[StairFall]

Sorry, confused the two sets, I thought this one usually ran protect. Never mind disregard what I said. It could still pull of the defensive pivot with its high defence and good typing though. However I stick by my nomination of semistall with a cleaner. It seems like what a defensive 'mon like gliscor with offensive support would work best with.

 

[ganj4lF]

I agree with Lavos, Gliscor functions at best when he can Sub up and pass to a variety of things that can cover various threats while setting up or just taking advantage of the Sub in other ways. Having a good "toolbox" of pokes will allow Gliscor to mantain very good momentum and to let teammates come in for free; also, it's not hard at all to obtain said Sub, thanks to Gliscors' stats and typing. So I agree with weatherless balance, we need the variety and the independence from weather this kind of team can grant.

I also agree with Harsha, these suggestion must be quite loose, since it's great to mantain as much freedom as we can while building, while having a general idea of the final result. This is all we need - a general idea, not something more specific than that.

 

[yee]

I would like to point out that "weatherless" can very often mean a non-weather team with Tyranitar on it. Tyranitar and Hippowdon are pokemon too, not just a weather. You can put them on your "weatherless" team to win games against Rain and Sun, and in the current metagame's state I would not defend anyone saying that isn't vital.

 

[ganj4lF]

I would like to point out that "weatherless" can very often mean a non-weather team with Tyranitar on it. Tyranitar and Hippowdon are pokemon too, not just a weather. You can put them on your "weatherless" team to win games against Rain and Sun, and in the current metagame's state I would not defend anyone saying that isn't vital.

That's exactly the kind of flexibility I was referring into my post! Weatherless was like, to me, "a team not based on weather", not a team without any weather inducer at all. If we want to use, say, Sunny Day Venusaur no problem (as long as it works with the rest of the team), or BP a substitute on Tyranitar while Politoed switches into Gliscor, all fine choices that I'd like to have available.

 

[yee]

Perfect. Now that I'm on the same page let's not forget either offensive Ninetails and especially Scarf Toed are capable of lone poke heroics on non-weather based teams, although Ninetails would most likely just cause a disaster against other Sun teams because of Venusaur / their Fire-types.

 

[Husky]

No offence, but I don't think you understand how it works. First, you set up a substitute on something that will be forced out, your opponent brings in something with a water / ice attack, like Mamoswine. You Baton Pass your substitute to Cloyster, which tanks the Icicle Spear (Substitute is still up), you then Shell Smash as Mamoswine breaks the Sub and you can then go on a sweep. Sure, your substitute only lasted 2 turns, but thats not the point, because in those 2 turns, you got a free set up, and now you have a 100% sweeper, fully boosted, that can go on a sweep. I don't really know what you are smoking, when you imply that Offensive teams struggle to use Sub Pass Gliscor, its been used effectively ON Offensive teams, you just include 2 set up sweepers, 1 that resists ice, one that resists water, (if they resist both then go you!) then go to town. Using a Baton Pass chain means we just end up with your standard Baton Pass team (for example, we prolly need Mr Mime to block Perish Song T_T ), and its not the direction I personally want us to focus on.

Maybe I misinterpreted your post, in which case I apologise, but from what I read, it seemed that you were implying that Sub Pass Gliscor doesn't work with Offensive teams

I guess you just got me wrong. Since english isn't my first language, I can probably never avoid any misunderstanding, I'm sorry for that..

I in fact support and wish to see this becoming an offensive team as you can read in the rest of my post. I never said that SubPassing / this Gliscor can't be used on offensive teams, I just wanted to show up the problem, most offensive teams will have, using SubPass and I surely am not wrong with that.

You say, you can set up when the opponent switches into a Mamoswine, but what if the opponent just goes for Ice Shard? You will switch without a Sub at all, means no time to set up with anything else. Expecting you _always_ get the opportunity to pass an active Sub is just not true from what I can say. Gliscor is not blazing fast, and it's still quite weak to any sort of fast special sweeper. For example, Gengar causes so much trouble to this set single-handedly, outspeeding and breaking Substitute with Shadow Ball without any effort.

I never said, that my idea of BP Offense shall end up in a simple chain team, but more in using it in a different way to get momentum over the opponent's team, much like VoltTurn. There is a vital number of usable Pokemon that receive Baton Pass and are viable in OU, including Zapdos, Vaporeon, Jolteon, Espeon, Xatu, and Gorebyss to name the most important. I just say it again: this shall not be a set up chain by any means! What's so wrong about a Zapdos running a set like Discharge/Heatwave/Roost/BatonPass? Sure, it has both U-Turn and Volt Switch but if you can switch into another typing immunity to keep Substitute alive, what's so wrong about that? Also, Baton Pass will give both, Espeon and Xatu the change to flee from more Pursuit without taking damage. Is that really such a bad thing?

I don't think I made anything wrong with my post and I still think this can turn out to be an effective playstyle, but I guess people more prefer to stay at their roots, not being open-minded for a creative idea.

..Not that I'm not used to the fact already, everyone just rejects and of my ideas~​

 

[Jimbon]

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
evs: 248 HP / 24 Def / 236 Spe
Impish nature
~Substitute
~Baton Pass
~Earthquake
~Toxic / Taunt

So what are you replacing with protect? With EQ gone, it fails to have any offensive presence ever, kind of a problem-it doesn't impede so much it's ability to toxic stall, just its ability to check even stuff like lucario w/out ice punch, terrakion, so forth. With baton pass gone, it's no longer subpass gliscor, which was the point of the set. With toxic/taunt gone, you can't do much but stall endlessly. Really, it's going to be a mediocre pivot either way IMO, we should concentrate on its point, which is subpassing multiple times a game. And subpass only works if that sweeper isn't walled, which means we might as well have a lot of sweepers, cutting down on the likelihood of this happening.

This set doesn't need Protect, it's SubPass Gliscor, not Sub Toxic Gliscor. Why would we need Protect on this set anyway, SubPass and SubToxic Gliscor perform two different roles and I feel like you're really missing the point of this set. Most offensive teams nowadays only really carry a suicide lead + 5 sweepers, which means there's really nothing you have to take a hit. This Gliscor set fits perfectly on offense, as it actually provides you with a reliable switch into Terrakion, Scizor, etc. Gliscor also commonly baits a lot of switches, such as Skamory and Forretress. If you switch into a Terrakion or whatever to take a hit, it's likely that your opponent is going to bring something that can wall Gliscor, meaning you Substitute on the switch, and you can then Taunt or straight up Baton Pass out, into something to beat the switch in, while retaining a free Substitute. The difference between this set and Sub Toxic is that this set is moreso a defensive pivot that doesn't completely lose all your momentum, while Sub Toxic Gliscor can effectively stall out some of it's checks, which is a completely different set. This argument isn't very clear, mainly because we haven't decided on other team members who can be potential Baton Pass recipients, but the point is still the same.

You say, you can set up when the opponent switches into a Mamoswine, but what if the opponent just goes for Ice Shard? You will switch without a Sub at all, means no time to set up with anything else. Expecting you _always_ get the opportunity to pass an active Sub is just not true from what I can say. Gliscor is not blazing fast, and it's still quite weak to any sort of fast special sweeper. For example, Gengar causes so much trouble to this set single-handedly, outspeeding and breaking Substitute with Shadow Ball without any effort.

That can still happen, but eitherway you still get a free switch into Cloyster, or whatever Pokemon for that matter because Baton Pass allows you to choose what you switch into even if your opponent switches, so even if you pass into Cloyster as Mamoswine breaks Gliscor's Substitute, you didn't have to directly hard switch into Cloyster, meaning you're not taking even more unnecessary damage. As for the point about Gengar being able to wall this Gliscor set, that's not really a problem. Every Pokemon is beaten by some sort of set, and we have 5 other Pokemon to choose yet, so we could easily pick another member that benefits from Gliscor's Substitutes that beats Gengar.

 

[tehy]

This set doesn't need Protect, it's SubPass Gliscor, not Sub Toxic Gliscor. Why would we need Protect on this set anyway, SubPass and SubToxic Gliscor perform two different roles and I feel like you're really missing the point of this set. Most offensive teams nowadays only really carry a suicide lead + 5 sweepers, which means there's really nothing you have to take a hit. This Gliscor set fits perfectly on offense, as it actually provides you with a reliable switch into Terrakion, Scizor, etc. Gliscor also commonly baits a lot of switches, such as Skamory and Forretress. If you switch into a Terrakion or whatever to take a hit, it's likely that your opponent is going to bring something that can wall Gliscor, meaning you Substitute on the switch, and you can then Taunt or straight up Baton Pass out, into something to beat the switch in, while retaining a free Substitute. The difference between this set and Sub Toxic is that this set is moreso a defensive pivot that doesn't completely lose all your momentum, while Sub Toxic Gliscor can effectively stall out some of it's checks, which is a completely different set. This argument isn't very clear, mainly because we haven't decided on other team members who can be potential Baton Pass recipients, but the point is still the same.



That can still happen, but eitherway you still get a free switch into Cloyster, or whatever Pokemon for that matter because Baton Pass allows you to choose what you switch into even if your opponent switches, so even if you pass into Cloyster as Mamoswine breaks Gliscor's Substitute, you didn't have to directly hard switch into Cloyster, meaning you're not taking even more unnecessary damage. As for the point about Gengar being able to wall this Gliscor set, that's not really a problem. Every Pokemon is beaten by some sort of set, and we have 5 other Pokemon to choose yet, so we could easily pick another member that benefits from Gliscor's Substitutes that beats Gengar.

Thank you for summarizing my entire argument. Try reading what led up to it next time, though.

Just in case this post's too short, let me explain it in length: Stairfall said that set could stall shit out with protect, and i said that it doens't have protect and any moveslot it loses fucks it over, except baton pass, which... as you already said, and i already said, is the crux of this set. He said that it would be semistall with a cleaner, i said that offense can use it better and stall has problems using that set anyways, true the cleaner could use it, but still.

It's true that the enemy could just ice shard, but that's just one example in a sea of them. The point is, that's what it's meant to do, and many other OU pokes can't just use ice shard as a counter to this;not to mention all the different recipients we would have. We could always decide to, say, run a meloetta, and then make genger setup bait.

 

[asterat]

Cloyster @ Life Orb
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 64 SAtk / 244 Spd / 200 Atk
Naive Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
- Explosion

Everything Ginga said. Standardish cloyster that can OHKO SpD forretress after rocks eith hydro pump. EVs allow it to outspeed scarf terrakion at +2. Explosion>Rock Blast because rock blast cloyster is horrible and explosion actually kills stuff like Rotom. Can come in on physical water or ice moves and tank with ease and then set up. Best paired with another pokemon annoyed by the same stuff like rotom, because they can sweep after cloyster goes boom on rotom. Also lets gliscor get away without ice fang for other gliscor and dragonite.

 

[sora13]

Cloyster @ Life Orb
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 64 SAtk / 244 Spd / 200 Atk
Naive Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Icicle Spear
- Shell Smash
- Explosion

Everything Ginga said. Standardish cloyster that can OHKO SpD forretress after rocks eith hydro pump. EVs allow it to outspeed scarf terrakion at +2. Explosion>Rock Blast because rock blast cloyster is horrible and explosion actually kills stuff like Rotom. Can come in on physical water or ice moves and tank with ease and then set up. Best paired with another pokemon annoyed by the same stuff like rotom, because they can sweep after cloyster goes boom on rotom. Also lets gliscor get away without ice fang for other gliscor and dragonite.

(all calcs are with 252 atk evs, 4 spatk, shell smash and LO boost)

Rotom-W (OU Bulky Attacker) Rock Blast 100 - 117.84%
Rotom-W (OU Choice) Rock Blast 111.15 - 130.99%
Forretress (OU Specially Defensive) Hydro Pump 81.35 - 96.04%
Forretress (OU Physically Defensive) Hydro Pump 111.29 - 131.35%

Lol rock blast is far from horrible. Even if it's not the best thing in the world, it's way better than explosion. +2 Rock blast is able to OHKO all but extremely defensive Rotom in my experience. Also, Clolyster really needs all the atk evs he can get for Taking out Ferrothorn. Most Forretress are OHKOed by a +2 Hydro Pump with SR up, as shown above.

 

[tehy]

I think a far more relevant question is;what can forretress even DO to you? At best, it volt switches;problematic but not that big a deal;if they've got a revenge-killer then you're a little boned anyhow, i guess they can go to him and have a somewhat alive pokemon as opposed to killbait.

And yeah, rock blast is just fine. There's no reason to force yourself to suicide when you're a sweeper IMO.

And we already set the moveset;gliscor can't "get away" with using ice fang anyhow, because that's not in the CCAT set.

 

[sora13]

I think a far more relevant question is;what can forretress even DO to you? At best, it volt switches;problematic but not that big a deal;if they've got a revenge-killer then you're a little boned anyhow, i guess they can go to him and have a somewhat alive pokemon as opposed to killbait.

And yeah, rock blast is just fine. There's no reason to force yourself to suicide when you're a sweeper IMO.

And we already set the moveset;gliscor can't "get away" with using ice fang anyhow, because that's not in the CCAT set.

Pretty much the only things that can revenge Cloyster anyways are base 110 choice scarfers and up, along with Xspeed D-nite(iirc takes like 40% from Adamant after defense drops, but I could be wrong), Scizor(only if it's 60% or below), and Breloom.

But we shouldn't lock ourselves into using the initally voted moveset like you're suggesting. The whole basis of choosing Gliscor was for it's SubPassing capabilities, which Ice Fang has little to no impact on.It's not like we're changing Gliscor into a SubToxic set by adding Ice Fang, it's still gonna stay SubPass. It's gotta stay flexible to our needs.