Oh no! they voted for their ideals! how dare they!
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Serious US Election Thread (read post #2014)
- Thread starter Bughouse
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Oh no! they voted for their ideals! how dare they!
There are a lot of people with a lot to lose from this. Everyone has a right to vote for who they want to be president, but you have to own up to the fact that if you didn't vote Clinton, you enable Trump to win this.
His point is that now's not the time to be for anybody, but against the fascist pumpkin. If we didn't have the looming threat of a spray tanned chicken nugget being given the nuclear launch codes, I'd agree with you.
But you still didn't vote for Trump. The logic behind this is weird. Can you really blame them for voting someone who they wanted? It's not enabling someone to win over somebody, as you have no idea who is going to win.
To be fair, the fault doesn't completely lie with those who didn't vote for either Hillary or Trump, or sat it out.
We should have gotten rid of the damned electoral college after the 2000 fiasco. Hell, Hillary won the popular vote, so more people wanted her over Trump! So depending on your point of view, most people voted for the lesser of two evils (but we'll now find out how evil or not Trump is).
We need to make it a mission to abolish the system and make it so that people have better freedom to vote with their ideals. It will promote an ability for people to experiment, and will also completely destroy the Repug's advantage from gerrymandering.
I think a huge part of the reason that Trump was elected was that most of the population shared my disgust for Hillary. That's why I can't bring myself to hate those who voted third party, not at all, or even for Trump (at least for now). They are right: she is corrupt, lies and flip flops a lot, and has shown herself to be morally flawed. Maybe even evil in one sense of the term. At the very least, I can blame them for doing so in itself, even though I will blame them for the consequences, especially Trump voters if they are wrong about him.
We just can't let this go anymore. We need to stop thinking of ourselves as individual states and a little bit more of a unified country with common interests.
We should have gotten rid of the damned electoral college after the 2000 fiasco. Hell, Hillary won the popular vote, so more people wanted her over Trump! So depending on your point of view, most people voted for the lesser of two evils (but we'll now find out how evil or not Trump is).
We need to make it a mission to abolish the system and make it so that people have better freedom to vote with their ideals. It will promote an ability for people to experiment, and will also completely destroy the Repug's advantage from gerrymandering.
I think a huge part of the reason that Trump was elected was that most of the population shared my disgust for Hillary. That's why I can't bring myself to hate those who voted third party, not at all, or even for Trump (at least for now). They are right: she is corrupt, lies and flip flops a lot, and has shown herself to be morally flawed. Maybe even evil in one sense of the term. At the very least, I can blame them for doing so in itself, even though I will blame them for the consequences, especially Trump voters if they are wrong about him.
We just can't let this go anymore. We need to stop thinking of ourselves as individual states and a little bit more of a unified country with common interests.
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The best analysis I saw of the result was "less-educated white people voted like a minority group (they usually haven't) but they're 40%+ of the country."
That basically is what cost Clinton in all of Wisconsin, PA, and Florida (in the panhandle, specifically) I don't include Michigan because it looks like she may still win Michigan as the last few precincts haven't reported and they're in Flint, Ann Arbor, and Detroit, though she obviously massively underperformed in Michigan, and Virginia because of this swell too.
Flip Wisconsin and PA back (and hold Michigan and New Hampshire - also still not called and very tight) and Clinton wins. But it looks like they were taken for granted. And she actually can't win that path without Wisconsin which wasn't that close and was a huge shocker given how Trump was so disliked in the Republican Primary there. That group of states without Wisconsin results in 270-268 Trump.
The alternative of course would be somewhat higher turnout in her areas of Florida to compensate for the shocking levels of turnout in trump's, which would have made many paths possible. But banking on Florida is never ideal.
I don't blame the DNC in the general sense because I don't actually think anything about the vote counting in the primaries was illegitimate. I do blame the DNC because I think they're shitty at their job, just not also corrupt. But it's curious to note that Clinton's support in the primaries was overwhelmingly from "captured" voting blocs that would have still voted for Bernie, even if they had somewhat less turnout. What we've seen instead is Bernie's more white, working-class backers were pretty much nonexistent for Clinton in the midwest and PA.
I don't think this necessarily means Bernie would have won by any means. But it does look like, in hindsight, the demographics actually did favor him for a general. While trade was not a major issue nationwide, it was in places like Wisconsin and Michigan and Clinton got hammered on it. The election proved to be much more about general ideology about America's place in the world than any specific domestic policies (on many of which Clinton repeatedly polled higher by large enough margins to be clear wins)
And of course in other news, looks like 2000 again. Can we get rid of the electoral college yet? Popular vote and it looks like we would avoid this nightmare.
That basically is what cost Clinton in all of Wisconsin, PA, and Florida (in the panhandle, specifically) I don't include Michigan because it looks like she may still win Michigan as the last few precincts haven't reported and they're in Flint, Ann Arbor, and Detroit, though she obviously massively underperformed in Michigan, and Virginia because of this swell too.
Flip Wisconsin and PA back (and hold Michigan and New Hampshire - also still not called and very tight) and Clinton wins. But it looks like they were taken for granted. And she actually can't win that path without Wisconsin which wasn't that close and was a huge shocker given how Trump was so disliked in the Republican Primary there. That group of states without Wisconsin results in 270-268 Trump.
The alternative of course would be somewhat higher turnout in her areas of Florida to compensate for the shocking levels of turnout in trump's, which would have made many paths possible. But banking on Florida is never ideal.
I don't blame the DNC in the general sense because I don't actually think anything about the vote counting in the primaries was illegitimate. I do blame the DNC because I think they're shitty at their job, just not also corrupt. But it's curious to note that Clinton's support in the primaries was overwhelmingly from "captured" voting blocs that would have still voted for Bernie, even if they had somewhat less turnout. What we've seen instead is Bernie's more white, working-class backers were pretty much nonexistent for Clinton in the midwest and PA.
I don't think this necessarily means Bernie would have won by any means. But it does look like, in hindsight, the demographics actually did favor him for a general. While trade was not a major issue nationwide, it was in places like Wisconsin and Michigan and Clinton got hammered on it. The election proved to be much more about general ideology about America's place in the world than any specific domestic policies (on many of which Clinton repeatedly polled higher by large enough margins to be clear wins)
And of course in other news, looks like 2000 again. Can we get rid of the electoral college yet? Popular vote and it looks like we would avoid this nightmare.
Honestly speaking, people saying "fuck the world is gonna end" are either people who obviously don't qualify for elitist immigration into Canada or Australia,
or people with obvious Hispanic names that do not normally qualify elitist immigration into USA.
They are a bunch of butthurt people because they know they are not good enough for anything else.
With USA's strong military background, I doubt diplomatic skills matters anyway.
Most countries would like to lick USA's ass no matter how bad the diplomatic skills are.
In my opinion, other USA diplomats have been shit compared to European ones anyway.
Idealistically, any advanced countries should have their borders up regardless to whether it's racist or not.
You can't have everyone of those unqualified people entering your country whenever they like.
If everyone can just choose to live in a country they like, surely some countries are going to be more popular than the others, and these popular countries are going to be the more advanced countries.
That's why you need to choose which people to let in.
Japan nearly only accepts elitist immigrants and marriage immigrants, look how great Japan is.
Honestly, USA is basically founded and civilized by white people.
It's incredibly natural to not want other people, unless they are beneficial to your country.
Yes, I've always been supporting elitism. This is my political stance.
And you shouldn't be hating me because of my political views.
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This is very different from your stance on brexit
No!!! Don't leave us!!! We moderates and progressives need to stick together!!!
You think that movements might start up in progressive states to secede? If so, I'm moving there (I hope if we can afford it).
Actually, looking at the map, maybe they should just become provinces of Canada.
I opposed Brexit due to economical issues, not immigrant issues.
I make this very clear.
But apparently, my cousin and her family actually voted for Brexit, lol.
And she's not one of those under educated people.
She's a physician in the UK.
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non-existent issues, got it :)
who's excited for kanye 2020 ?
first and foremost let me lead off with this: a lot of people are mad at trump winning, and rightfully so. the man is a bigot, and a blowhard and has no experience in politics.
Preaching hate is a very bad thing but please take into consideration that people might have voted for trump for reasons other than Sexism/Racism/Fear or whatever, voting for a candidate is a very nuanced thing. Theres a lot of motivations that can go into it, and while some may have voted for him for purely evil reasons; don't stoop to his level and spit hate at the people who did vote for him. They made their choice just like everyone else should have the right to. Question the man who was elected, don't yell angrily into the wind. You can get past this. Remember we are all human, and everyone should have the same rights. Even if the current political climate doesn't represent that. Namaste.
Preaching hate is a very bad thing but please take into consideration that people might have voted for trump for reasons other than Sexism/Racism/Fear or whatever, voting for a candidate is a very nuanced thing. Theres a lot of motivations that can go into it, and while some may have voted for him for purely evil reasons; don't stoop to his level and spit hate at the people who did vote for him. They made their choice just like everyone else should have the right to. Question the man who was elected, don't yell angrily into the wind. You can get past this. Remember we are all human, and everyone should have the same rights. Even if the current political climate doesn't represent that. Namaste.
who are u and what have u done with rodan
Japan, great, chose one.
They just benefit from their image. They're culturally years late compared to most developped countries, even the US. But maybe you're only judging after Pokémon, anime and tentacle monsters, in which case i can't blame you.
1: Johnson voters were generally more inclined to vote Trump if they had to pick between Clinton and Trump so your argument is invalid
2: Perhaps instead of blaming a handful of third party voters, you should be blaming Clinton for being so completely godawful at attracting voters. Not so friendly reminder that if you can't attract enough voters, YOU are to blame. All the liberals pointing their fingers at Stein, Johnson, Bernie, or anyone else are simply in denial that their campaign sucked, that their candidate was one of the least electable ones they've ever had, and that they consistently underestimated Trump and what he stood for. Go do some fucking self-reflection before you start whining about Jill Stein "stealing" like 1% of the votes, as if voters owed their vote to Clinton or some shit.
Complaints about voter suppression and the electoral college system are fair game imo, but these things are evidently harmful to the democratic process as a whole. Nothing about voting third party is harmful to democracy an sich.
Unfortunately for you, Japan is considered a developed country, despite the fact that it isn't a white country.
Japan has a very rich traditional culture that is nicely preserved, and I don't see how it is inferior compared to the US.
Meanwhile, what tradition has USA preserved?
Cresselia: Tradition often stands in the way of progress. It's important to value where you came from, but don't let it hold you back. Japanese society is still pretty misogynistic, for example (at least, in my limited understanding). I think social acceptance etc is what was being referred to as culture. Tradition is not the only part of culture.
2016 going strong
These white people were immigrants, decimated the inhabitants and built their country on the backs of slaves, just so we're clear here.
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