Can I have an explanation as to why Shuckle is C ranked? I didn't see it mentioned in this thread, and I'm kind of curious as to why my favorite pokemon is viable in Ubers.
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Gen 6 The XY Ubers Viability Ranking Thread [Read Post #1000]
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Sticky Web mostly. Unlike Smeargle it has actual defenses and Sturdy to p. much ensure you're not going to OHKO it, and Sturdy gives it the option of running Mental Herb so you don't have to predict against Taunt users. Sticky Web is literally the only reason to use it though, hence C ranking.
Ah ok. Well hey it's something at least. It's a little curious why it's ranked in Ubers but unranked in OU. Maybe it's just because nobody has brought it up.
So...sorry for my poor English on CM Groundceus...
Jolly Mega Blaze is useful since speed creep will eventually happen just like on the base 90s. Being unsure of how much speed your opponent's Xern is running is never a good thing.
I admit that I have never used an offensive spread for Landy though. Probably it is a better version of eplate Groudon though I am not sure of that. Maybe I need further testing to judge on Landy.
My Groudon set's aim is to wear down deffoggers with d-tail since none of the common defoggers have lefties and can pressure on the opposing team. It is not that easy to defog on as you think.
Spike offense is powerful, but a good player will not allow the opposition to set up many layers of spikes. SR is much more common on Ubers thanks to the awesomeness of Ho-oh.
Even if Landy can sac itself to get intimidate off Blaziken, things that can take on +1 Blaziken is not much more than +2 Blaze in sun, especially when rocks are present. Offense still relies on priority while stall relies on Giratinas, which will be near useless no matter taking +1 or +2 Knock Off. Intimidate is not that huge against Mega Blaze.
Nah, I am using 252hp252+atk before the analysis is writen for Mega Scizor. I find a pokemon more of an liabilty when it needs to rely on team support to take on things it is supposed to check. While I have not lose to any ekiller and Xern with my Mega Scizor team, a large part of the reason is I have sash Deo-A as a secondary revenge killer. Mega Scizor doesn't hit hard enough when its main attack option is an unstabbed move with horrible drawbacks and lackster coverage in Ubers. Scizor's utility of being a soft check to ekiller and Xern doesn't actually worth being deadweight against teams without them and being free switch ins to major threats (toxic isn't enough when only a few turns are needed for things like Yveltal and Ho-oh to wreck havoc). I stil think High B is better for Scizor
Jolly Mega Blaze is useful since speed creep will eventually happen just like on the base 90s. Being unsure of how much speed your opponent's Xern is running is never a good thing.
I admit that I have never used an offensive spread for Landy though. Probably it is a better version of eplate Groudon though I am not sure of that. Maybe I need further testing to judge on Landy.
My Groudon set's aim is to wear down deffoggers with d-tail since none of the common defoggers have lefties and can pressure on the opposing team. It is not that easy to defog on as you think.
Spike offense is powerful, but a good player will not allow the opposition to set up many layers of spikes. SR is much more common on Ubers thanks to the awesomeness of Ho-oh.
Even if Landy can sac itself to get intimidate off Blaziken, things that can take on +1 Blaziken is not much more than +2 Blaze in sun, especially when rocks are present. Offense still relies on priority while stall relies on Giratinas, which will be near useless no matter taking +1 or +2 Knock Off. Intimidate is not that huge against Mega Blaze.
Nah, I am using 252hp252+atk before the analysis is writen for Mega Scizor. I find a pokemon more of an liabilty when it needs to rely on team support to take on things it is supposed to check. While I have not lose to any ekiller and Xern with my Mega Scizor team, a large part of the reason is I have sash Deo-A as a secondary revenge killer. Mega Scizor doesn't hit hard enough when its main attack option is an unstabbed move with horrible drawbacks and lackster coverage in Ubers. Scizor's utility of being a soft check to ekiller and Xern doesn't actually worth being deadweight against teams without them and being free switch ins to major threats (toxic isn't enough when only a few turns are needed for things like Yveltal and Ho-oh to wreck havoc). I stil think High B is better for Scizor
It may have been a mistake in your expression but we can't know that until we bring it up and you correct yourself.
The scarf mons currently being used are unlikely to creep more as they miss out on key KOs (I don't remember them off the top of my hated now but I did once :p) which is different from the non-scarfed 90s (although those guys rarely use a positive nature anyways). It's not worth creeping for creep that people aren't creeping (lol) when you miss out on key KOs.
Thing about using Donner that way is that (unless you have spikes someplace else) you have to get your Donner to setup SR first before you can start putting any real pressure on the bulky arc switch-ins. A naked Dtail will require an awful lot of predictions on when the Arceus will come in (especially since you'll likely end up dragging something out that forces the Donner to switch before it can consider SRing again) unlike Toxic which only takes one. (and even if you miss that you can predict the Defog)
Spikes offense only needs one layer of spikes and SR up. Smart play can go both ways and having that cushion for mispredicts is very useful. (also SR is god regardless of Ho-Oh, just sayin)
Um, that's just wrong lol. A +1 blaze in neutral weather is miles better than a +2 blaze in sunny, the difference in power is massive and a +1 blaze misses out on a lot of KOs it would otherwise get. Also, your idea of a typical stall or offense seems to be differ from mine so that probably plays into it. In any case, Lando would be used on more balanced/offense because it's a good pivot with solid offensive pressurebut not a extensively longterm solution to much.
Ygod and Ho-oh both hate having to put up with SR staying up, you can just run U-turn to make bringing them in immense liabilities. (I'm not even sure why one would attempt to bring in ygod unless it was after a kill)
The scarf mons currently being used are unlikely to creep more as they miss out on key KOs (I don't remember them off the top of my hated now but I did once :p) which is different from the non-scarfed 90s (although those guys rarely use a positive nature anyways). It's not worth creeping for creep that people aren't creeping (lol) when you miss out on key KOs.
Thing about using Donner that way is that (unless you have spikes someplace else) you have to get your Donner to setup SR first before you can start putting any real pressure on the bulky arc switch-ins. A naked Dtail will require an awful lot of predictions on when the Arceus will come in (especially since you'll likely end up dragging something out that forces the Donner to switch before it can consider SRing again) unlike Toxic which only takes one. (and even if you miss that you can predict the Defog)
Spikes offense only needs one layer of spikes and SR up. Smart play can go both ways and having that cushion for mispredicts is very useful. (also SR is god regardless of Ho-Oh, just sayin)
Um, that's just wrong lol. A +1 blaze in neutral weather is miles better than a +2 blaze in sunny, the difference in power is massive and a +1 blaze misses out on a lot of KOs it would otherwise get. Also, your idea of a typical stall or offense seems to be differ from mine so that probably plays into it. In any case, Lando would be used on more balanced/offense because it's a good pivot with solid offensive pressurebut not a extensively longterm solution to much.
Ygod and Ho-oh both hate having to put up with SR staying up, you can just run U-turn to make bringing them in immense liabilities. (I'm not even sure why one would attempt to bring in ygod unless it was after a kill)
+1 Mega Blaziken may have much less power than +2 Blaze but that means little against offensive teams since standard threats like Palkia, Kyogre, Zekrom, Yveltal are all OHKOed while 252/0 Arceus has around 90% to be OHKOed after rocks. It isn't easy to keep Arceus forms full health though when their job are to clear hazards and are status baits. The only difference of power level is against Ho-oh when rocks arw not up and physically defensive Arceus. Revenge killing with priority is still the go to way for offense to deal with Blaze even after intimidate. This does not gives landy and advantage over Groudon. I won't give a comment on its ranking when I am still testing though.
For Scizor, I don't think relying on heavy prediction and sacrificing survibility in order to not give free switch ins to the top threats. Scizor is really vulnerable to spike offense and takes 25% damage every time it switches in on SR + one layer of spikes. U-turn every time it switches in is not feasible unless it wants to be in the ko range of ekiller's boosted attack s (actually, Mega Scizor cannot take a +2 EQ after it switched in without roosting once while Xern's moonblast puts it to the range of +2 espeed after one switch in). Relying on such heavy prediction and skill to soft check two pokemons is not anything near significant offensive or defensive capability to me. It is heavily reliant on team support if it doesn't want to give free turns to the opposition. High B sounds a more suitable rank for me.
For Scizor, I don't think relying on heavy prediction and sacrificing survibility in order to not give free switch ins to the top threats. Scizor is really vulnerable to spike offense and takes 25% damage every time it switches in on SR + one layer of spikes. U-turn every time it switches in is not feasible unless it wants to be in the ko range of ekiller's boosted attack s (actually, Mega Scizor cannot take a +2 EQ after it switched in without roosting once while Xern's moonblast puts it to the range of +2 espeed after one switch in). Relying on such heavy prediction and skill to soft check two pokemons is not anything near significant offensive or defensive capability to me. It is heavily reliant on team support if it doesn't want to give free turns to the opposition. High B sounds a more suitable rank for me.
*AHEM* not Gengar *AHEM*
The ability to trap and remove almost any slower sweeper on the enemy team with DBond + 2 immunities + Toxic immunity does indeed constitute massive defensive capability. Numerical bulk isn't everything.
Not exactly an Ubers player but why is Bronzong ranked as high as Mid B? Now that it is weak to Ghost and Dark it is a lot easier to kill than before and capable of being defeated by the new Mega Gengar and Yveltal and now it also loses to stuff like Arceus Normal, Darkrai, and Tyranitar that it used to stand a chance against before. It barely walls any Ubers anymore since they all 2HKO or OHKO it by exposing its suddenly important and common weaknesses and lack of that many notable resistances.
If its only for being a Xerneas and Deoxys-A check with Stealth Rock (as otherwise Aegislash is superior at checking these Pokemon, especially the later) it probably doesn't need to be that high. I guess it can deal with Lando-T too but Bronzong can easily become a liability compared to other Steel-types that don't have these weaknesses. Even with that considered Ferrothorn deals with similar Pokemon other than Ground Pokemon, but it also gets Spikes, Thunder Wave, and checks the more-dangerous Kyogre and others.
If its only for being a Xerneas and Deoxys-A check with Stealth Rock (as otherwise Aegislash is superior at checking these Pokemon, especially the later) it probably doesn't need to be that high. I guess it can deal with Lando-T too but Bronzong can easily become a liability compared to other Steel-types that don't have these weaknesses. Even with that considered Ferrothorn deals with similar Pokemon other than Ground Pokemon, but it also gets Spikes, Thunder Wave, and checks the more-dangerous Kyogre and others.
Ferrothorn is not a reliable Xerneas or Deoxys-A check due to its Fighting-weakness which is why most people gravitate towards Aegis and Zong instead. Being able to check Xern well is huge given how it's the most common Pokemon in Ubers right now. Anyway, Aegis and Zong both have enough advantages over each other to merit them both being the same rank. Aegis is bulkier and stronger, yes, but Bronzong also offers more team support in the form of Stealth Rock and Screens, and Levitate is obviously an advantage as it allows Bronzong to counter all the usual Grounds save Groudon with Fire Punch whereas Aegis is just bait for them. They're about equal tbh, Aegis is better as a pure Xerneas check but Zong can do more things outside of checking Xern.
I'm feeling Ditto needs a ranking on here.. I know it blows hard vs stall, but versus the fairly common offensive team types going around it has a lot of utility. Whilst Ubers hasn't been too affected, having a lot of megas introduced that are powerful threats ditto will always outspeed, it has gained a little in actual utility. It could still be like C- rank, but it's not the joke it once has been (I'd see it more often than the rarer arceus types for example [fire, bug, ice, psychic, dark, poison, flying, steel even]. I appreciate the huge obvious flaws, but people are using it [heck I think it's OU on PO via usage stats last time I checked] and it isn't total garb, with imposter and megas floating about.
Ditto is now a threat to consider if run GeoXern: it comes after the boost and scarf sweep your team with +2 Moonblast.
What ditto's analysis would probably look like:
Ditto w/ Choice Scarf
252 HP EVs
IVs: Whatever it takes to make HP fire
Moveset:
-Transform
Alternate Items: Ghost plate( to hit CM ghostceus)
How To use: As a revenge killer, and soft kyogre check. Works best against Sweepers that have set up, like a +4 E-killer.
shame nothing uses hidden power in ubers bar xern who doesn't give a fuck about getting hit by a SE hidden power
A lot of things in your list like Snorlax, Slowking, Shuckle etc. haven't have an analysis yet and they are on the list, I don't see why you can't put Ditto in. Maybe you can put it in D if you are skeptical about it in C?
Sorry to repeat myself but:
GeoXern is in about 40% of the teams, Scarf Imposter Ditto come in after the boost and counter sweep everything. If mother nature has given a brain to Xern players they know that they can't try to sweep with it before taking out the pink slime.
That alone should worth a C/C+ Rank.
GeoXern is in about 40% of the teams, Scarf Imposter Ditto come in after the boost and counter sweep everything. If mother nature has given a brain to Xern players they know that they can't try to sweep with it before taking out the pink slime.
That alone should worth a C/C+ Rank.
Ditto is an awful xern check- shaky at best. You just need 2 switch ins into sr for ditto to require an additional priority user to finish GeoXern off. And, IMO, if you're being forced to not use Ditto until Xern comes out, then it's just ugh.
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Fairy Aura Xerneas: 234-276 (79.5 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (GeoXern hitting Ditto)
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. +2 4 HP / 0 SpD Fairy Aura Xerneas: 234-276 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Ditto hitting GeoXern)
ah you always get off 60-70 % damage at least, it's not all that bad. dittos problems aren't vs HO teams (even if it can be overloaded with work against them) but rather as always, balanced and stall teams who laugh at it. In the current state of the meta, however, Ditto has a small niche, and deserves a ranking somewhere in low C.
Sub GeoXern completely butt fucks Ditto lol.
Sammao has a good point, though. I put those other guys there cause I figured they were pretty much locked for analyses but, tbf, Shuckle porbably wouldn't get one and snorlax is just as questionable as ditto. Leaving Slowking there because it's already got a small, but present activity in the metagame.
Sammao has a good point, though. I put those other guys there cause I figured they were pretty much locked for analyses but, tbf, Shuckle porbably wouldn't get one and snorlax is just as questionable as ditto. Leaving Slowking there because it's already got a small, but present activity in the metagame.
you misunderstood, support groudon always runs roar, it's just a matter of the fact since it has access to such a good move [roar], you can't run toxic, since you need SR, eq and stone edge.
Blaziken can easily survive unboosted priority and 2HKO-OHKO most of the users. I personally think that it's unfair to relegate Blaziken as a solely a set up sweeper, when it's one of the best revenge killer. It's able to force switch and hit predicted switches HARD, and then potentially sweep from there. Protect Mega-Blaziken/LO Blaziken is a terrifying force.
IMO, it's optimal to choose between Protect or Sword Dance, rather than between Protect and Knock Off. +0 Blaziken is less strong, but it's still impressively strong. And, with protect blaze, you obviously don't switch it into priority users. You just double switch/revenge kill shit, and opponent really can't do anything about it.
This post might seem controversial, but I think that Xerneas should be dropped to A+ rank. Here's why:
1. Xerneas absolutely needs to use a power herb in order to use geomancy, but without life orb i feel like it doesn't hit hard enough...
2. Xerneas is easily revenge killed by arceus-normal and CB Scizor, which were very viable in gen 5 too. It also can't really get past mega gengar.
3. Xerneas suffers from 4 moveslot syndrome. Without thunder(bolt), it has no means of doing anything to Ho-oh (+2 geomancy doesn't 2hko), while brave bird is an easy OHKO with just a bit of prior damage. additionally, Ho-oh can easily Whirlwind it out. Lugia also completely walls non-Thunder(bolt) variants if sr isn't down, and guess what, Lugia can easily roost. However, xerneas really needs moonblast, focus blast and flash cannon to beat the most common threats
4. Xerneas can't really boost to +3 SpA/+3SpD/+3Spe, which might be crucial at times (i know it's situational, though)
1. Xerneas absolutely needs to use a power herb in order to use geomancy, but without life orb i feel like it doesn't hit hard enough...
2. Xerneas is easily revenge killed by arceus-normal and CB Scizor, which were very viable in gen 5 too. It also can't really get past mega gengar.
3. Xerneas suffers from 4 moveslot syndrome. Without thunder(bolt), it has no means of doing anything to Ho-oh (+2 geomancy doesn't 2hko), while brave bird is an easy OHKO with just a bit of prior damage. additionally, Ho-oh can easily Whirlwind it out. Lugia also completely walls non-Thunder(bolt) variants if sr isn't down, and guess what, Lugia can easily roost. However, xerneas really needs moonblast, focus blast and flash cannon to beat the most common threats
4. Xerneas can't really boost to +3 SpA/+3SpD/+3Spe, which might be crucial at times (i know it's situational, though)
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