Project SV OU: The Next Best Thing (Week 11: Iron Moth) (Votings Open)

[Solosis]

Submissions Closed
​

Great job everyone! We had a successful week again. What I am happy about is the fact that many participants even suggested changes are ideas in the thread. We'll be looking forward for more such contributers!

A special welcome to Zbr & Doomer for participating in the Next Best Thing for the first time. We'll be looking forward for more such amazing sets in the coming weeks.

Hereby, I announce the commencement of voting. But with a huge shift in the rule! From now onwards, to prevent tiebreakers, we will be voting in Ranked Pairs. Basically, you'll be ranking the sets in descending order of their viability, creativity & relevance to the metagame. An example could be A > B > C > D > E > F or F > E > D > C > B > A.

Click on the name of the set to get the PokePaste for it. You may use the alphabets in front of the sets to vote!

Week-9 Gliscor
​

A: Defensive Substitute + Toxic by Zbr

B: Scary Face + U-Turn by nameless90

C: T. Orb Fling + Acrobatics by Doomer

D: SD + Scale Shot by Poke Nerd

E: Brave Nature Choice Band by Incorolla

F: Offensive Toxic Spikes by Whaloob

The voting for the Next week's topic should also be done in Ranked Pairs!

The nominees for the Pokemon who will get a Next Best Thing in the coming Cycle are as follows :--->

Voting Deadline: Thursday October 12, 7:30 AM GMT

 

[CheeseBakon]

D > B > A > F > E > C

Next Week: Waterpon!

 

[Solosis]

D > B > A > F > E > C

Next Week: Waterpon!

Thanks for the vote!

The Next Week mons are supposed to be voted by Ranked Pairs as well!

 

[LOrd Fernado]

D > F > E > A > B > C

My thoughts

D) This is ingenious and I love it
F) I like this set cuz it reminds me of Toxic Debris Great Tusk
E) Very simple set, just that i feel like Adamant can be used as well because Gliscor loses longevity
A) This is alr, SubToxic instead of SubSeed but one move was changed
B) This is a sketchy way of speed control but it works sometimes
C) I don’t like Fling sets. I just really dont.

Oh ye: , , , ,

 

[Solosis]

D > F > E > A > B > C

My thoughts

D) This is ingenious and I love it
F) I like this set cuz it reminds me of Toxic Debris Great Tusk
E) Very simple set, just that i feel like Adamant can be used as well
A) This is alr, SubToxic instead of SubSeed but one move was changed
B) This is a sketchy way of speed control but it works sometimes
C) I don’t like Fling sets. I just really dont.

Oh ye: , , , ,

I really love & appreciate the way you gave justifications for your votes.

I'd like others to probably do the same (I you wish to!)

Thanks a lot!

 

[incorolla]

B > D > A > F > C

Waterpon > Iron Val > Moth > Gholdengo > Hatt

 

[Whaloob]

D > E > B > A > C

Thoughts

(Shamelessly copying Lord Fernando lol)
D: SD Scale Shot is a genuinely viable alteration to the standard SD set, especially if unexpected, which can also help with substitutes and multiscale . I’d run toxic orb and facade over loaded dice and crabhammer respectively though.

E: Slow band is definitely not as viable overall but makes good use of surprise factor to punch holes while still being good at taking a few hits, where adamant banded u-turn does a nice job of exploiting grass types coming in on expected EQ and dark types coming in on expected knock off.

B: Scary face benefits from tera meta a lot, where being scarfed can be a liability against a setup sweeper with a dream and the right tera type, making booster energy a common choice of emergency speed control that has to contend with being single use. Scary face on something with sufficient bulk to take a strong hit can at least help save booster energy for later as well as check faster setup sweepers/speed setup sweepers that you can’t prevent from setting up. This said the opportunity cost of scary face on a mon with such a good movepool to tap into is pretty high.

A: SubToxic I’ve found to be a poor fit for the meta, encores and taunts and and curse and tera poisons/steels are around to ruin your day, but I can vouch for its effectiveness against poorly prepared teams at least. Also hurt a bit by being a well-established set.

C: Unlike SD Scale Shot which doesn’t necessarily need to use scale shot to be effective, and for which scale shot provides useful coverage, SD Fling Acro is not a very useful set until it gets two turns of setup as EQ and 55 BP Acrobatics at +2 is far too easy to wall. Fling also has an abysmal 30 BP and, by being single use, doesn’t do nearly as much to narrow down who can switch in on/stay in on as toxic does. SD + 2 attacks + Toxic is, to me, essentially a direct upgrade to this set. This said, at least has the bulk to have a shot at getting 2 turns of setup, but then I expect the ease with which it can be outsped will then stand in its way (also not an issue that scale shot has).

> > > >

 

[nameless90]

E >D > F > A > C
(I can't include myself)

Hide

E: first because it is a new Band user in the format with U-turn that is really unexpected. Not sure about the nature, though.
D: original set that acts such as a sort of "Double Dance set". Unexpected and deadly as a cleaner.
F: nice reasoning behind this set. Toxic Spikes are used as a bait to make Poison-type (or even Steel-type) pokemons to switch-in on a predicted Earthquake, which is supereffective towards them. Nice pick to pilot the moves of the opponent to some extent.
A: basic (so low originality) set that I put here because you gave up half of your moveset to status move, thus leaving you more vulnerable to Taunt/Encore.
C: last on the list because this set is outclassed by the combination of Toxic + Dual Wingbeat most of the time.

The nominee for the Pokemon who will get a Next Best Thing in the coming Cycle is :---> > > > >

 

[CheeseBakon]

Thanks for the vote!

The Next Week mons are supposed to be voted by Ranked Pairs as well!

Alright bet
1. theres a lot you can do with waterpon I find
2. more focused on offense, but still a lot you can do
3. lots of coverage, could be good...
4. if I had a nickel for every time I've seen a hatterene on the ladder I'd have no nickels.
5. theres bulky recover, and there's scarf. That's it. ._.
(Is this what ranked pairs means )

 

[Solosis]

Alright bet
1. theres a lot you can do with waterpon I find
2. more focused on offense, but still a lot you can do
3. lots of coverage, could be good...
4. if I had a nickel for every time I've seen a hatterene on the ladder I'd have no nickels.
5. theres bulky recover, and there's scarf. That's it. ._.
(Is this what ranked pairs means )

Kind of, you need not explain these, but thanks!

 

[awyp]

A> d

 

[Solosis]

A> d

Regarding the Next Week's Topic? I mean you can still abstain, but I would love if you vote!

 

[awyp]

Regarding the Next Week's Topic? I mean you can still abstain, but I would love if you vote!

waterpon, gholdengo, valiant, moth, hatterene

 

[Solosis]

waterpon :)

Sorry to prompt again, It was supposed to be Ranked Pairs as well!

 

[Poke nerd]

A,F,B,C,E for submissions

Next round:



1. Iron moth I feel has so much untapped potential setwise, taking advantage of hazards, pivoting and recovery.

2. Oger, once again has so many defensive tools ( leech seed, spikes, spiky shield, ect) and is a new Mon anyways so there.

3. Although Val probably has the most tools on this list, it's kinda been analysed setwise so much, new sets will probably end up stale or very minor changes to originals.

4. Ghold doesn't have many tools outside what is already popular ( similar to valiant) and doesn't need any more sets to worry about ( it's already scary enough guessing if it's scarf, cloak, or defensive hex.

5. [Insert funny thing laughing at how hatt is horrible here]

PS: I apparently can't spell hatterene lmao

 

[FYBIRR]

D > im not ranking them all so everything else

waterpon > hatterene > gholdengo > moth man > valiant

 

[Solosis]

Congratulations to Poke Nerd & his Swords Dance + Scale Shot Gliscor set for winning this week's Next Best Thing Title. The Hall of Fame 2.0 (yes!!) will be updated very soon!

Also, thanks a lot for everyone participating this week! This was possibly my most successful week as a host!! Hoping for more such contributions!!

Results

Sets :->

This week's topic :->

Submissions Open

Week 10: Ogerpon-Wellspring




Ogerpon-Wellspring is one of the newest Pokemon in Teal Mask DLC Update (Toy Syndrome yay!!). Well, with multiple Offensive & Defensive tools, you can seemingly do a lot of stuffs using Ogerpon-Wellspring, when it comes to sets. Let's see how the participants reflect that versatility!! (Also, Ogerpon-Wellspring is genuinely good, not Toy Syndrome!)​

Banned Sets

Ogerpon-Wellspring @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Water
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Ivy Cudgel
- Power Whip / Trailblaze
- Knock Off / Play Rough

Ogerpon-Wellspring @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Water
Jolly Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Horn Leech
- Taunt / Encore
- U-turn

Submissions Deadline: Monday, October 16, 7:30 AM GMT

Voting Deadline: Thursday, October 19, 7:30 AM GMT

 

[nameless90]

Offensive Spikes setter

Ogerpon-Wellspring @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Water
Jolly Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Wood Hammer
- Spikes
- Knock Off

Here we have an offensive attempt with this Ogerpon. Ivy Cudgel is the Water STAB, whereas Wood Hammer is picked over Horn Leech for the extra damage output. I really like the fact that Water Absorb mitigate the recoil of Wood Hammer. Knock Off is picked over U-turn (bad 4MSS) for the extra coverage and utility, especially because even this moves are boosted by the Wellspring Mask. Knock Off is more valued here because it is further boosted by the Mask.
Spikes is the core of this set because even this Ogerpon form still hits hard, and thus forces a lot of switches. What I really like of Spikes is that you can lay down up to 3 layers, and they are not removed easily such as Toxic Spikes. They allow this monster and it's teammates to reach some KOs/2HKOs that otherwise would have been impossible.

Some calcs:

Hide

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Wood Hammer vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 236-278 (54.3 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
With Wood Hammer this Ogerpon has a solid 2HKO on a +1 Def Great Tusk
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Wood Hammer vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 160-190 (49.5 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 252-298 (80 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 306-362 (80.5 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
With Knock Off, Ogerpon almost has a OHKO. Keep in mind hazards support.

 

[LOrd Fernado]

The most original and totally not simplest idea ever

Ogerpon-Wellspring @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Tera Type: Water
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Ivy Cudgel
- Knock Off / Encore / Protect

SubSeed. We all know what it does. In all honesty this set would be better with Cornerstone and Heartflame, but hey, I'm working with what I've got. Ivy Cudgel is the only form of STAB that Ogerpon will have, and the last moveslot is honestly up to you. I wouldn't suggest putting something like Power Whip since it's main role isn't offense. Knock Off because removing items is great, Encore or Protect for more recovery depending on the situation.

 

[InvisibleWater]

Focus Energy + 3 Attacks


Ogerpon-Wellspring @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Focus Energy
- Ivy Cudgel
- Power Whip
- Knock Off / Play Rough

This set is mostly standard, but opts for Focus Energy instead of a more conventional boosting move. Focus Energy causes Ivy Cudgel to always crit, and increases the crit chances of its other moves to a considerable degree. The damage boost from a critical hit, aside from obviously ignoring Defense boosts, also isn't ignored by Unaware, which is nice.

 

[toshimelonhead]

Ogerpon-Wellspring (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Swords Dance
- Encore
- Trailblaze

The idea here is to stop setup sweepers and start a sweep of your own. The ideal order of moves is to start with Trailblaze, Encore if your opponent picks a setup move, then use Swords Dance to start boosting. I designed this set ideally to beat Manaphy, but it is not limited just to Manaphy.

 

[CheeseBakon]

Ogerpon, but you have to two shot it instead



Revolutionary

Defensive SD Ogerpon

Ogerpon-Wellspring (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 140 HP / 112 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Synthesis
- Swords Dance
- Horn Leech
- Ivy Cudgel

Listen, Ogerpon can work somewhat defensively too. I once use Teal Ogerpon in a semi stall team (which sorta failed), but this set is kinda similar to that

With synthesis, horn leech and water absorb, and some good positing, and even Embody Aspect if you tera, Waterpon can stay on the field for a while. And if you get it right, you can get a great swords dance off, and deal major damage with a high speed stat.

I'm honestly not sure what else to say, so please tell me if I should include more stuff, and I hope y'all enjoy defensepon

ugly mask tbh

 

[Solosis]

I'm surprised we already have crossed the minimum number of sets required per cycle literally 3 days before the deadline!!

Keep up the work guys!

 

[Poke nerd]

Spikes Pivot



Ogerpon-Wellspring (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Ivy Cudgel
- Horn Leech
- U-turn

Before I start, thanks so much everyone for voting for my set! I love all the positive feedback I get on these sets, and it really encourages me to continue making them! and also let's be honest I'll probably not win another one for a while most of my sets are doo doo.

Anyways...
The first thing I noticed is the fact that I realised that this things sets are a lot more limited than I thought, only having one item and tera choice. So I looked at it's options, being a bulky water with WA, spikes, good speed and u turn made me immediately realise this was THE set.

It's amazing bulk and typing let's it switch into a lot of attacks and hit back hard or setup spikes, helping make progress with your other members. The fact that it gets u turn means it can also further predict and just switch out. The lack of recovery means this set works best on BOs and offense, and thrives on one of the games core mechanics: switching. This thing forces progress easily for it's teammates with spikes and high damage, and can even clean games with it's high attack and speed (120 and 110 respectively) and the mask boost, tera boost, need I say more I mean just look at these calcs

Calcs

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 222-264 (51.1 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery if they tera water click horn leech lol

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 230-272 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 195-229 (61.9 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Samurott-Hisui: 208-246 (64.7 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Samurott-Hisui: 111-131 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(Horn leech ohkos)

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 189-223 (49.2 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 102-121 (26.2 - 31.1%) -- 24.1% chance to 3HKO after 2 layers of Spikes and Leftovers recovery this ain't so impressive...

PS: unfortunately no creative item today since forced to wear the mask

 

[doomer]

Seeds+Hazards Pivot
Ogerpon-Wellspring (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Serious Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- U-turn
- Horn leech
Ogerpon's typing, abililty and stats allow it to become sort of a budget Ferrothorn, and Horn Leech allows it to heal enormous amounts along with leech seed. Spikes can be set up while the opponent switches out to get rid of leech seed and punish any further switches.