Yeah I agree, especially to the fact when you see a Rotom-W / Clodsire you just auto-sub and start setting up Nasty Plots. I think the rise of Hydrei makes Rotom-W use drop the last month.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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Yeah I agree, especially to the fact when you see a Rotom-W / Clodsire you just auto-sub and start setting up Nasty Plots. I think the rise of Hydrei makes Rotom-W use drop the last month.
Items like Assault Vest, Eviolite, and Choice wear don't boost base stats. They multiply the current relevant stat (after stat boosts, also) by 1.5.
@ Life Orb Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 Def / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Stone Axe
- X-Scissor
- Close Combat
- Agility
I'm an idiot that likes Agility sweepers. 29 HP EVs gives you a Life Orb number (I think. Are Life Orb numbers still a thing or should I just be running Boots?), Stone Axe sets up your own hazards, X-Scissor and Close Combat give you big damage. EVs let you outspeed Scarf 110s after an Agility.
This is the part of the post where I remembered Terastallization is a thing at this point in the gen, and so I've switched to Fighting. I've always sucked at teambuilding, someone else can probably make this better. Maybe a Scarf set, it's practically Heracross but with U-turn.
Dropping 252 Speed EVs on something that has base 50 Speed to reach an outstanding 199 Speed for pure competitive performance and to elect to go for Low Kick > Iron Head so you get completely walled by every fairy in the tier. Thank me later.
Kingambit @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Low Kick
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch
Band Tinkaton, don't use that it's super bad.
Late to this party now but I should be using Choice Band to maximize the chance of OHKOing Scarf Gholdengo with Sucker Punch:
252 Atk Choice Band Samurott-Hisui Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 314-372 (99.6 - 118%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
But I actually run Expert Belt so I can switch moves and I still get the guaranteed OHKO on offensive Heatran:
252 Atk Expert Belt Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 367-434 (113.6 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 306-362 (94.7 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO)
Yeah, I'm a fan of Razor Shell so I can break opposing defences more easily and maybe dent Unaware mons harder. Ceaseless Edge already misses often enough, anyway.
On another note, at least in the limited post-HOME OU tours I've participated in and watched in Showdown's Tours Plaza room, Enamorus isn't broken (yet), Bulletproof Ursaluna actually works, and pre-HOME teams easily win and have won tournaments(!!!).
Depends but based on the Hyper Offense spam it's any where between 252 HP / 252 Att to 252 Att / 252 Speed (Adamant nature for both), ideally I've been seeing a lot of Gambits with at least 180 speed (176 EVs) 252 Attack and rest in HP (80 EVs).
I think this is accurate. It's not just Hydreigon also. Substitute Dragons (Baxcalibur/Dragapult/Roaring Moon - I've used Haxorus too) in general kind of see Rotom-W as set-up bait that's easy to take advantage of during team preview. Looking around, I've seen mons use Tera to find new ways to shit on Rotom-W, such as Volcarona, Ceruledge, or this Tera Ground SubBD Azumarill set by Storm Zone. With all that + its lack of longevity, it makes sense as to why Rotom-W has taken a hit.
Based on this: Speed Tiers Resource, the Speed creep war revolves around
- Kingambit, Neutral 144 Spe: The standard spread aims to outpace min Speed Corviknight, as well as the Iron Hands, Azumarill, Scizor, Skeledirge and Brute Bonnet spreads that EV up with the same idea in mind. Those Pokemon are always trying to one up each other at the cost of HP investment.
- Kingambit, Neutral 252 Spe (neutral max invested base 50 speed tier): This spread pops up occasionally. Azumarill and Iron Hands also share this speed tier. For this reason, mons that can afford to invest in speed to outpace them (Scizor, Skeledirge) may opt to do so. (Scizor would be able to Bullet Punch before Kingambit can Sucker Punch while Skeledirge burn it with Wisp before Kingambit attacks)
- I think I've heard something about Kingambit going Jolly max speed sometimes, though this is probably rare. That said, it wouldn't hurt to EV up your Great Tusks and Rotom-W so that they are guaranteed to outpace the positive max invested base 50 speed tier.
This should honestly be a Flying Press article
tyranitar specs as he gets power gem and can ohko easily tusk with ice beam
Grimmsnarl (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Spirit Break
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave
I genuinely think this is the worst thing I've ever actually tried to run.
USEFUL EV SPREADS
This post will have ev spreads of common mons with very minimal adjustments from the usual 252 252 we usually do,these ev spreads will be very clutch and require very minimal investment with the calc it's relevant to mentioned under the spread,I will also include the sets of the mons but those can be changed to whatever suits the team better,this post is mainly just to give the ev spreads:
KINGAMBIT
Erebus (Kingambit) @ Leftovers
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
DEFENSIVE GREAT TUSK
Tuskuthy (Great Tusk) @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 164 Def / 80 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
OFFENSIVE GREAT TUSK
Tuskuthy (Great Tusk) @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 232 Atk / 24 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
IRON MOTH
Polyphemus (Iron Moth) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 64 HP / 60 Def / 132 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Psychic
- Sludge Wave
- Substitute
IRON VALIANT
Mav's Joint (Iron Valiant) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 SpA / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
BULKY CINDERACE
Bunny Joint (Cinderace) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Blaze
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 224 HP / 32 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn
- Court Change
DRAGAPULT
Hades (Dragapult) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 12 Def / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
OFFENSIVE VOLCARONA
Sunburst (Volcarona) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 32 Def / 224 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Bug Buzz
- Tera Blast
- Quiver Dance
SKELEDIRGE
Dirgiano Duvitsky (Skeledirge) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 240 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Shadow Ball
- Slack Off
- Substitute
CLODSIRE
Antheia (Clodsire) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
TOXAPEX
Triton (Toxapex) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 224 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Sludge Bomb
- Infestation
- Tera Blast
TYRANITAR
Godzilla (Tyranitar) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Atk / 212 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
Hope these spreads were helpful and came in clutch for you as well,I would love to do more of these type of posts but I am way too lazy
This post will have ev spreads of common mons with very minimal adjustments from the usual 252 252 we usually do,these ev spreads will be very clutch and require very minimal investment with the calc it's relevant to mentioned under the spread,I will also include the sets of the mons but those can be changed to whatever suits the team better,this post is mainly just to give the ev spreads:
KINGAMBIT
Erebus (Kingambit) @ Leftovers
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Flamethrower vs. 80 HP / 8 SpD Kingambit: 306-360 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
DEFENSIVE GREAT TUSK
Tuskuthy (Great Tusk) @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 164 Def / 80 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
16 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 288-342 (91.4 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
OFFENSIVE GREAT TUSK
Tuskuthy (Great Tusk) @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 232 Atk / 24 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
252 SpA Glimmora Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 24 SpD Great Tusk: 314-370 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
IRON MOTH
Polyphemus (Iron Moth) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 64 HP / 60 Def / 132 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Psychic
- Sludge Wave
- Substitute
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 268-316 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
IRON VALIANT
Mav's Joint (Iron Valiant) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 248 SpA / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 8 SpD Iron Valiant: 244-288 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
BULKY CINDERACE
Bunny Joint (Cinderace) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Blaze
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 224 HP / 32 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn
- Court Change
32 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 318-374 (100.9 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
DRAGAPULT
Hades (Dragapult) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 12 Def / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
252 Atk Choice Band Baxcalibur Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 12 Def Dragapult: 266-314 (83.9 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
OFFENSIVE VOLCARONA
Sunburst (Volcarona) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 32 Def / 224 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Bug Buzz
- Tera Blast
- Quiver Dance
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 32 Def Volcarona: 262-310 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
SKELEDIRGE
Dirgiano Duvitsky (Skeledirge) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 240 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Shadow Ball
- Slack Off
- Substitute
0 Atk Garganacl Salt Cure vs. 248 HP / 20 Def Skeledirge: 84-102 (20.4 - 24.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
CLODSIRE
Antheia (Clodsire) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
0 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Clodsire: 390-462 (84 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
TOXAPEX
Triton (Toxapex) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 224 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Sludge Bomb
- Infestation
- Tera Blast
252 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 36 Def Toxapex: 222-264 (73.2 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
TYRANITAR
Godzilla (Tyranitar) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Atk / 212 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
48 Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Toxapex: 136-160 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage
Hope these spreads were helpful and came in clutch for you as well,I would love to do more of these type of posts but I am way too lazy
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I just came to say that I made a full experiment and I can say that it fucking sucks, I also tried a Dragon tail defensive set, it also sucks
2 reasons
1) I'm bad at every single thing that I try to do in this life, and that has made a hole in my self-esteem to the point of self-sufficiency
2) The meta is too offensive for this type of shenanigans, people are putting speed eves on things that don't need it because they are too paranoid, and hazard stacking is surprisingly hard to pull off, at least in my opinion
Other stuff that I got out of the experiment
wishes it could have the 3 abilities at the same time, and it kinda sucks when you try to set up spikes, also the smogon set recommends boots, which from what I understand, this allows clod to NOT absorb T-Spikes, which is counterproductive to a big extent
I got so used to scarf that I forgot how much band does, holy fuck I love this degenerate bait mon
I was thinking about AV Gholdengo for a bit, but the voices in my head told me not too, ill just leave it for anyone to see. In another news, this mon still puts in work no matter the matchupBulbapedia says Boots still allows grounded Poison types to remove Toxic Spikes
Toxic Spikes are pretty brutal in the current meta. Hazard removers are scarce and most are grounded, so teams that don't have a grounded Poison type really hate the poison damage, especially if the team relies on Great Tusk/Ling-Lu as their defensive backbone.
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Here's my potentially nuclear take: I think that Weavile is a legitimately good mon in OU and is terribly underrated. Yes, not having Knock Off anymore gives it less utility and yes, Ice Spinner's lesser power compared to Triple Axel is noticeable. But even despite the nerfs it got in the generational transition, I firmly believe that Weavile is more than just viable.
What seperates Weavile from other physical attackers in the tier is its speed; Every OU mon other than Dragapult needs a Scarf to outspeed it, and even then, it will probably speed-tie since the most popular Pult variants are not +Speed. This means it reliably (tera types notwithstanding of course) threatens things like Amoongus, Clodsire, Ceruledge, Gholdengo, Roaring Moon, Garchomp, Hydreigon, and H-Zoroark, with the latter 4 being mons that Baxcalibur, which you could consider Weavile's main "competitor", can't immediately threaten with standard sets. What's more, even despite losing Knock Off and Triple Axel, Night Slash and Ice Spinner are still plenty strong. Everyone seems to think Weavile is absolute garbage solely because it doesn't learn those two moves anymore, but it still deals good damage to a lot of threats. Sure, it usually can't OHKO non-supereffective targets from around full health, but neither can most other attackers, and Weavile has an incredibly spammable STAB combo either way--only Azumarill and Kingambit resist both. So while it does require additional support and prior chip damage, it's nothing that other attackers don't require as well and that, plus its great speed and STABs, gives Weavile plenty of opportunities to break down teams. Choice Band sets have few switch-ins while Swords Dance sets are fierce wallbreakers.
To illustrate the excellence of its STAB combo, I'll completely rip off the idea from the Glaceon post about going down the viability rankings and highlighting mons vulnerable to Weavile when not considering coverage like Low Kick (basically just listing mons weak to its STABs).
Snow's defense boost is also a great help for Weavile. It's not going to be super bulky under snow, but it will more reliably be able to take a strong hit; this alongside the fact that Slowking is already a great partner for Weavile due to its bulk, utility outside of setting snow, and the two's ability to cover each other's checks makes it a solid choice on the increasingly popular snow teams. Under snow, Weavile's buffed defense allows it to avoid the OHKO on attacks like CB Meowscarada's Flower Trick and Extreme Speed from +1 Attack Tera Normal Dragonite.
Outside of Slowking, Weavile also has other mons it can form great cores with, such as:
That's it from me. There are other mons I think are overlooked in the metagame, but I'll make seperate posts about those eventually. I hope this post has convinced you to give Weavile a try!
What seperates Weavile from other physical attackers in the tier is its speed; Every OU mon other than Dragapult needs a Scarf to outspeed it, and even then, it will probably speed-tie since the most popular Pult variants are not +Speed. This means it reliably (tera types notwithstanding of course) threatens things like Amoongus, Clodsire, Ceruledge, Gholdengo, Roaring Moon, Garchomp, Hydreigon, and H-Zoroark, with the latter 4 being mons that Baxcalibur, which you could consider Weavile's main "competitor", can't immediately threaten with standard sets. What's more, even despite losing Knock Off and Triple Axel, Night Slash and Ice Spinner are still plenty strong. Everyone seems to think Weavile is absolute garbage solely because it doesn't learn those two moves anymore, but it still deals good damage to a lot of threats. Sure, it usually can't OHKO non-supereffective targets from around full health, but neither can most other attackers, and Weavile has an incredibly spammable STAB combo either way--only Azumarill and Kingambit resist both. So while it does require additional support and prior chip damage, it's nothing that other attackers don't require as well and that, plus its great speed and STABs, gives Weavile plenty of opportunities to break down teams. Choice Band sets have few switch-ins while Swords Dance sets are fierce wallbreakers.
To illustrate the excellence of its STAB combo, I'll completely rip off the idea from the Glaceon post about going down the viability rankings and highlighting mons vulnerable to Weavile when not considering coverage like Low Kick (basically just listing mons weak to its STABs).
S Rank:
S Rank
Great Tusk: Ice Spinner
S- Rank
Dragapult: Ice Spinner
A Rank:
A+ Rank
Dragonite: Ice Spinner
Gholdengo: Night Slash
A Rank
Roaring Moon: Ice Spinner
Ting-Lu: Ice Spinner
A- Rank
Amoonguss: Ice Spinner
Clodsire: Ice Spinner
Garchomp: Ice Spinner
Hydreigon: Ice Spinner
Meowscarada: Ice Spinner
Skeledirge: Night Slash
Slowking: Night Slash
Zoroark-Hisui: Night Slash
B Rank:
B+ Rank
Ceruledge: Night Slash
B Rank
Breloom: Ice Spinner
Brute Bonnet: Ice Spinner
Sandy Shocks: Ice Spinner
B- Rank
Armarouge: Night Slash
Indeedee: Night Slash
Iron Jugulis: Ice Spinner
Polteageist: Ice Spinner
Toedscruel: Ice Spinner
S Rank
Great Tusk: Ice Spinner
S- Rank
Dragapult: Ice Spinner
A Rank:
A+ Rank
Dragonite: Ice Spinner
Gholdengo: Night Slash
A Rank
Roaring Moon: Ice Spinner
Ting-Lu: Ice Spinner
A- Rank
Amoonguss: Ice Spinner
Clodsire: Ice Spinner
Garchomp: Ice Spinner
Hydreigon: Ice Spinner
Meowscarada: Ice Spinner
Skeledirge: Night Slash
Slowking: Night Slash
Zoroark-Hisui: Night Slash
B Rank:
B+ Rank
Ceruledge: Night Slash
B Rank
Breloom: Ice Spinner
Brute Bonnet: Ice Spinner
Sandy Shocks: Ice Spinner
B- Rank
Armarouge: Night Slash
Indeedee: Night Slash
Iron Jugulis: Ice Spinner
Polteageist: Ice Spinner
Toedscruel: Ice Spinner
Snow's defense boost is also a great help for Weavile. It's not going to be super bulky under snow, but it will more reliably be able to take a strong hit; this alongside the fact that Slowking is already a great partner for Weavile due to its bulk, utility outside of setting snow, and the two's ability to cover each other's checks makes it a solid choice on the increasingly popular snow teams. Under snow, Weavile's buffed defense allows it to avoid the OHKO on attacks like CB Meowscarada's Flower Trick and Extreme Speed from +1 Attack Tera Normal Dragonite.
Outside of Slowking, Weavile also has other mons it can form great cores with, such as:
- Garchomp punishes attacks aimed at Weavile with Rough Skin and can set up Rocks or Spikes to wear down the opposition before Weavile can go in for the kill.
- H-Zoroark's typing and special-attacking prowess give it mostly different checks compared to Weavile, so using Illusion to disguise as it can force opponents to make risky predictions.
- Hatterene's ability to prevent hazards with Magic Bounce is generally appreciate by any team, and Weavile is no exception. This can provide Weavile with more opportunities to switch in alongside other utility in Mystical Fire and Nuzzle.
- W-Rotom's burn and paralysis support will prove highly useful to Weavile; suddenly, a lot of mons can't deal massive damage to it with physical attacks and even the few that outspeed it can no longer utilize said speed to threaten it out. Volt Switch is also useful for pivoting Weavile onto the field to fire off its attacks in the first place.
That's it from me. There are other mons I think are overlooked in the metagame, but I'll make seperate posts about those eventually. I hope this post has convinced you to give Weavile a try!
Here's my potentially nuclear take: I think that Weavile is a legitimately good mon in OU and is terribly underrated. Yes, not having Knock Off anymore gives it less utility and yes, Ice Spinner's lesser power compared to Triple Axel is noticeable. But even despite the nerfs it got in the generational transition, I firmly believe that Weavile is more than just viable.
What seperates Weavile from other physical attackers in the tier is its speed; Every OU mon other than Dragapult needs a Scarf to outspeed it, and even then, it will probably speed-tie since the most popular Pult variants are not +Speed. This means it reliably (tera types notwithstanding of course) threatens things like Amoongus, Clodsire, Ceruledge, Gholdengo, Roaring Moon, Garchomp, Hydreigon, and H-Zoroark, with the latter 4 being mons that Baxcalibur, which you could consider Weavile's main "competitor", can't immediately threaten with standard sets. What's more, even despite losing Knock Off and Triple Axel, Night Slash and Ice Spinner are still plenty strong. Everyone seems to think Weavile is absolute garbage solely because it doesn't learn those two moves anymore, but it still deals good damage to a lot of threats. Sure, it usually can't OHKO non-supereffective targets from around full health, but neither can most other attackers, and Weavile has an incredibly spammable STAB combo either way--only Azumarill and Kingambit resist both. So while it does require additional support and prior chip damage, it's nothing that other attackers don't require as well and that, plus its great speed and STABs, gives Weavile plenty of opportunities to break down teams. Choice Band sets have few switch-ins while Swords Dance sets are fierce wallbreakers.
To illustrate the excellence of its STAB combo, I'll completely rip off the idea from the Glaceon post about going down the viability rankings and highlighting mons vulnerable to Weavile when not considering coverage like Low Kick (basically just listing mons weak to its STABs).
S Rank:
S Rank
Great Tusk: Ice Spinner
S- Rank
Dragapult: Ice Spinner
A Rank:
A+ Rank
Dragonite: Ice Spinner
Gholdengo: Night Slash
A Rank
Roaring Moon: Ice Spinner
Ting-Lu: Ice Spinner
A- Rank
Amoonguss: Ice Spinner
Clodsire: Ice Spinner
Garchomp: Ice Spinner
Hydreigon: Ice Spinner
Meowscarada: Ice Spinner
Skeledirge: Night Slash
Slowking: Night Slash
Zoroark-Hisui: Night Slash
B Rank:
B+ Rank
Ceruledge: Night Slash
B Rank
Breloom: Ice Spinner
Brute Bonnet: Ice Spinner
Sandy Shocks: Ice Spinner
B- Rank
Armarouge: Night Slash
Indeedee: Night Slash
Iron Jugulis: Ice Spinner
Polteageist: Ice Spinner
Toedscruel: Ice Spinner
Snow's defense boost is also a great help for Weavile. It's not going to be super bulky under snow, but it will more reliably be able to take a strong hit; this alongside the fact that Slowking is already a great partner for Weavile due to its bulk, utility outside of setting snow, and the two's ability to cover each other's checks makes it a solid choice on the increasingly popular snow teams. Under snow, Weavile's buffed defense allows it to avoid the OHKO on attacks like CB Meowscarada's Flower Trick and Extreme Speed from +1 Attack Tera Normal Dragonite.
Outside of Slowking, Weavile also has other mons it can form great cores with, such as:
That's it from me. There are other mons I think are overlooked in the metagame, but I'll make seperate posts about those eventually. I hope this post has convinced you to give Weavile a try!
View attachment 505911
As long as you keep entry hazard away, because I think Boots is just too weak, it becomes a solid mon. It outspeeds everything in OU (not booster energy, scarfed) except Dragapult (Speed Tie if modest but can always go with the Ice Shard).
Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Low Kick
I do think it's underrated as well, I think if it ever ends up getting Knock Off it'll be back in OU.
Probably a long shot for a reason, but has anyone experimented with Breloom's old Poison Heal Sets (I recall a SubSeed and SubPunch variant)? Most sets I see tend to focus on its (potent) Technician Power, but with only 4 Grass Types in the B- Rankings (6 if we include Tera Grass Volc variants and Breloom itself) and Gholdengo on the decline, Leech Seed is becoming a safer move to throw out than in past gens overrun by Ferrothorn. Glimmora even means that Breloom could proc it without the Toxic Orb if you're ballsy and wanna run a different item (don't do this part but it's fun to think about).
If not PH, has anyone tried out other parts of the old sets like the mentioned Leech Seed as a way to offset chip when Checks switch in like Tera Fairy-d Garg, Corviknight, or Skeledirge (which often have High HP to sap for Breloom or the next entry), given he already deters stuff like Tusk, Ting-Lu, and Kingambit, and typical Grass types don't like to Switch into Breloom for other reasons (Amoongus hates Tera Blast Fire and so has to debate Spore vs Sludge Bomb if Breloom has Tera, Meowscarada and Brute Bonnet fear Mach Punch, and if Toedscruel shows up, it can't Spore while hating neutral Bullet Seed). Can also be good for annoyance or Hazard Shuffling since Breloom already threatens to shut down checks with Spore, then the next Answer has to deal with Leech Seed.
If not PH, has anyone tried out other parts of the old sets like the mentioned Leech Seed as a way to offset chip when Checks switch in like Tera Fairy-d Garg, Corviknight, or Skeledirge (which often have High HP to sap for Breloom or the next entry), given he already deters stuff like Tusk, Ting-Lu, and Kingambit, and typical Grass types don't like to Switch into Breloom for other reasons (Amoongus hates Tera Blast Fire and so has to debate Spore vs Sludge Bomb if Breloom has Tera, Meowscarada and Brute Bonnet fear Mach Punch, and if Toedscruel shows up, it can't Spore while hating neutral Bullet Seed). Can also be good for annoyance or Hazard Shuffling since Breloom already threatens to shut down checks with Spore, then the next Answer has to deal with Leech Seed.
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I was on LoA for a few weeks and prior to it, we agreed to let things settle for a bit after the Walking Wake suspect as nothing stood out much on the last survey and we do not feel overwhelmingly as a council.@Council
Can we get some sort of idea of there's been anything in the recent radar?
Is Volcarona being considered? Kingambit? Garganacl? Baxcalibur?
I think we are in the thick of the Home timing dilemma currently, but I am not opposed to acting if we have clear and consistent support on something. I do not know that we do though.
Going through a list of things,
- Volcarona is the most broken to me, but it is still checkable (albeit not as consistently as I would personally like). I will say that it’s getting increasingly possible to detect which variant it is based off of team compositions and early game play, but that doesn’t necessarily make it easier to account for in the builder.
- Kingambit to me is something that I would strongly support suspecting if we had a long-standing format, but I find incredibly hard to act on given our state of flux right now. By textbook definition, Kingambit can be seen as (at least borderline) broken with the lack of counterplay and arguably forced repetition of things like Great Tusk. However, it also is one of the few responses to Shadow Ball/Ghost types and it also provides some other things as well. I hate tiering this way as broken-checks-broken is the end result and long-form tiering methodology is to just suspect the problem and then you can always act on whatever becomes broken afterwards later as well, but with such a tight window, pursuing that seems ill advised. I’m really not too sure what the best solution is and I would like for it to be included in whenever the next survey is, but I’m also not in a hot rush for that survey to happen quite yet.
- Shed Tail is a nuisance and polluting the ladder (and even tournaments) a lot more than we would like considering the fact that it’s uniquely cheesy. I could justify acting on it perhaps easier than either of the above, but at the same time I don’t know if it’s pressing or even as metagame warping as it once was. Definitely deserves continued discussion
- Garganacl I am not sold on necessarily. It seems increasingly manageable to me, even without using Covert Cloak as much as previously. Obviously if the community supports it enough, I will not use just my own personal opinion to withhold action. It’s important one voice doesn’t dictate too much.
After reading this, I noticed that something that all of these things (except Shed Tail) have in common that can make them problematic is Terastalization. Not saying Tera is broken, but that if pushed too far, it might be worth looking at again. Just my two cents.
- Shed Tail can be as bullshit as Baton Pass was. I think Orthworm being in A- on the Viability Rankings + people nomming it for an even higher rank means its definitely not a cheesy strategy. In this meta, allowing anything to set up a free Substitute can result in things quickly getting out of hand. With its defensive traits, Orthworm can reliably pass a Substitute against a good chunk of the tier.
- I think Garganacl is manageable. Its a strong wincon, but it can't bullshit its way out of situations like Volcarona and to a lesser extent, Kingambit can. I think it also holds an important place in the current meta as a defensive option, so I don't think getting rid of it would be beneficial.
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I have tried this set I crafted
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def
Adamant Nature
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Spore
- Substitute
I used it on a stall team, you basically don't give a shit about Orthworm leads, it gets hard walled by ghost, but on a stall team you probably have Gholdengo, so you can hit it with that, 240 HP hits a magic PH and sub recovery number, the rest in def because why not
it's very 50/50, but it works
N E U R O N
A C T I V A T O N
I have talked about my opinions before, so I'll just talk about Kingambit, who seems to be the new King of the hill.
1) it runs only 1 set, stuff like low kick, tera blast are for cheese cooking, but can throw you up
2) +2 can destroy most things, especially with Supreme Overlord, just like Houndstone in the early days of the meta, it punishes you for winning, just 3 mons dead makes Dondozo go from counter to check because Unaware IS AWARE of SO
3) It forces mind games with Sucker Punch, making most ways to approach it 50/50
4) The true innovations come from the combination of Tera and Items, Fire/Flying/Ghost/Grass/Ground/Dark + Lum Berry/Boots/Leftovers/Metal Coat/Black Glasses/ or even forgo sd and take choice band/AV
5) While bulky, due to the meta filled with ground, fighting, fire types + sun, and Garganacl can punish him for trying to enter, the meta is naturally hostile towards it in various way, forcing gambit to tera if it wants to tera, this could make the kingambit player force himself into an obvious sacrifice
6) People are so afraid of it that they are doing speed creep wars with mons like rotom and skeledirge, in my personal opinion, I find this to be dumb, because you're cutting eves from somewhere else more important, on both sides, and your matchup against offense doesn't really improve
Kingambit is good, really good, but it can be managed due to the natural coverage and meta defining mons around it
Besides, once HOME rolls around, we are gonna get the single biggest Kingambit counter in the game
that's right, I'm talking about
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (calcs done with Rocky Helmet)+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 228+ Def Chesnaught: 189-223 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 228+ Def Chesnaught: 100-118 (26.3 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 228+ Def Chesnaught: 82-97 (21.5 - 25.5%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Chesnaught Drain Punch vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 300-352 (81.3 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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yeah but tera fire or tera flying kingambit can be used except if tera is banned when pokemon home is releasedI have tried this set I crafted
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def
Adamant Nature
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Spore
- Substitute
I used it on a stall team, you basically don't give a shit about Orthworm leads, it gets hard walled by ghost, but on a stall team you probably have Gholdengo, so you can hit it with that, 240 HP hits a magic PH and sub recovery number, the rest in def because why not
it's very 50/50, but it works
N E U R O N
A C T I V A T O N
I have talked about my opinions before, so I'll just talk about Kingambit, who seems to be the new King of the hill.
1) it runs only 1 set, stuff like low kick, tera blast are for cheese cooking, but can throw you up
2) +2 can destroy most things, especially with Supreme Overlord, just like Houndstone in the early days of the meta, it punishes you for winning, just 3 mons dead makes Dondozo go from counter to check because Unaware IS AWARE of SO
3) It forces mind games with Sucker Punch, making most ways to approach it 50/50
4) The true innovations come from the combination of Tera and Items, Fire/Flying/Ghost/Grass/Ground/Dark + Lum Berry/Boots/Leftovers/Metal Coat/Black Glasses/ or even forgo sd and take choice band/AV
5) While bulky, due to the meta filled with ground, fighting, fire types + sun, and Garganacl can punish him for trying to enter, the meta is naturally hostile towards it in various way, forcing gambit to tera if it wants to tera, this could make the kingambit player force himself into an obvious sacrifice
6) People are so afraid of it that they are doing speed creep wars with mons like rotom and skeledirge, in my personal opinion, I find this to be dumb, because you're cutting eves from somewhere else more important, on both sides, and your matchup against offense doesn't really improve
Kingambit is good, really good, but it can be managed due to the natural coverage and meta defining mons around it
Besides, once HOME rolls around, we are gonna get the single biggest Kingambit counter in the game
that's right, I'm talking about
+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 228+ Def Chesnaught: 189-223 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 228+ Def Chesnaught: 100-118 (26.3 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 228+ Def Chesnaught: 82-97 (21.5 - 25.5%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Chesnaught Drain Punch vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 300-352 (81.3 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Shed Tail is such a nuisance to certain playstyles of HO with the free switch in it gives to mons like Baxcalibur and especially Flying Moon. Running an offensive team against an Orthworm is a nightmare as you're literally forced to sac a mon each time it shed tails. It is gimmicky but it's very restrictive.
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