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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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It’s got a win rate below 50% because a whole lot of people are using it and there are far more people in general who consistently lose than consistently win. If anything, the fact that the win rate is that high is a testament to how little skill it requires.
Unless I’m completely misunderstanding how the statistics work, which is probably the case because I stay as far away as I can from anything with a percent mark.
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I understand that shed tail as a move is really good, like max hp invested either user is passing a 172 hp sub to anyone. But the mons themselves are good.
Fun Fact: Despite being the unequivocal best Pokemon in its Meta, GSC Snorlax can never break a 50% Win Rate because everyone uses it but only half of the players can win any given battle.
This is kind of a joke but also to illustrate (albeit in an extreme) that a near 50% Win-rate is significant if you have substantial usage, since the Pokemon likely appears on a lot of team and thus will incur losses by law of averages and potential shared matches. Getting above 50% entails the mon is used relatively infrequently but to extreme success by the users it does have, which given the usage based tiering and tendency of players to watch for new trends is an extremely rare set of circumstances.
Cyclizar’s not OU material without Cheater Tail, true, but it does get Regenerator, Rapid Spin, and Taunt, which probably gives it a solid niche in lower tiers. Something something role compression.
Honestly I am too, but I doubt banning cyclizar stops the problem. People will just find ways to pass subs with orthworm if we were to ban Cyclizar because shed tail as a whole makes set up sweepers like Espathra, Quaquaval, Volcarona, and especially Dragonite into uncompetitive pokemon when they would otherwise be very fair without shed tail being a thing, my point being shed tail allows a lot of setup sweepers to become absolutely game ending outright all from a single sub pass from shed tail, and that is what makes it uncompetitive in my mind.
Is anyone else getting absolutely smoked on the ladder? Feels like singles has fundamentally changed with terastallizing and I'm finding it very difficult to adapt. Definitely an exciting and chaotic time to play.
Anyways, I've been messing around with Iron Hands on Electric Terrain and have had some success using this set:
Iron Hands @ Leftovers / Boots / Shuca Berry
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 184 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Wild Charge
- Swords Dance
Electric terrain support means that you free up your item slot, as you no longer need to run booster energy. You have a lot of good options, but I personally really like Shuca Berry as it means you can easily eat an Earthquake from Garchomp or Great Tusk and hit back. It also lets you comfortable Swords Dance on Ting-Lu. Terra fighting is better if you don't rock with a Shuca Berry since you remove your ground immunity. I also really like boots because hazards seem to be extremely strong this gen.
At +2 and with an Adamant Nature, you pretty much OHKO everything under electric terrain, so investing heavily in bulk is super helpful to live hits while setting up, or eating a hit and healing back with Drain Punch. The Speed EVs are to outspeed stuff like Blissey and other base 55 speed Pokemon and below.
Anyways, I've been messing around with Iron Hands on Electric Terrain and have had some success using this set:
Iron Hands @ Leftovers / Boots / Shuca Berry
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 184 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Wild Charge
- Swords Dance
Electric terrain support means that you free up your item slot, as you no longer need to run booster energy. You have a lot of good options, but I personally really like Shuca Berry as it means you can easily eat an Earthquake from Garchomp or Great Tusk and hit back. It also lets you comfortable Swords Dance on Ting-Lu. Terra fighting is better if you don't rock with a Shuca Berry since you remove your ground immunity. I also really like boots because hazards seem to be extremely strong this gen.
At +2 and with an Adamant Nature, you pretty much OHKO everything under electric terrain, so investing heavily in bulk is super helpful to live hits while setting up, or eating a hit and healing back with Drain Punch. The Speed EVs are to outspeed stuff like Blissey and other base 55 speed Pokemon and below.
I understand what you're saying, but not sure if you represented it right. Once you see extremely high useage, being a couple percentage points above 50% or below 50% is more significant. Having a high use rate but a below 50% win rate would mean either that it's difficult to use but a lot of people are trying, or it's not as good as people think it is. High use rate and high win rate means that something is either very easy to use by an average player or it's just overpowered.
How good do you guys thinkarmarouge and
ceruledge are? I've been looking here recently and saw that both had usage above the OU cutoff.
From my admittedly limited experience, these two aren't that threatening and frail, so I'm surprised they got a lot of usage.
Side note, I really like using Scizor right now! Priority is very useful in this metagame and Bullet Punch is great for revenge killing.
Haven't used ceruledge, used specs armarouge a little bit on the first day of the meta, but dropped it shortly after. It's too slow and gets outclassed by chi-yu imo
This is a day 1 take if I’ve ever seen one. Hard stall is living large with the crazy new Unaware additions and hazards out the wazoo on mons that previously lacked utility (eg. Gastro & Quag). Sure, the recovery nerf sucks, as does Scald & Toxic distribution cuts, but you know what sucks a lot more? Broken offensive mons like Chi-Yu and Tera Annihilape existing. Stall struggles to function right now not because of the borderline-absurd ‘nerfs’ the playstyle received, but because we still haven’t removed all of the offensive brokemons from OU.
thanks a lot.
What's your favorite Gholdengo set right now? I've seen lots of offensive and balance oriented sets around between Scarf, Specs, offensive NP, bulky NP, and supporter. I've currently trying out a specially defensive set as a glue to a Dondozo/Garganacl/Gholdengo defensive balance trio (with hazards Chomp, stallbreaking Chi-yu, and Band Dragapult):
Gholdengo @ Spell Tag
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Make It Rain
- Substitute
- Recover
What's your favorite Gholdengo set? What team styles have you been using it with?
Gholdengo @ Spell Tag
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Make It Rain
- Substitute
- Recover
What's your favorite Gholdengo set? What team styles have you been using it with?
How have people playing hyper offense been dealing with the unaware bros? I’ve been using a Gholdengo hazards stack hyper offense and climbed to the mid 1500s quickly but keep running into people who sometimes even have two unaware mons on their team. Tera fairy Skele is the hardest to deal with in my opinion so any tips would be appreciated
I find myself using scarf with NP in the 4th slot a good amount right now on offenses, but Balloon NP Recover on any team that doesn’t need the speed
Imagine for a moment that we had gen 8 blissey in the tier. Chi-yu would not even be in the discussion. Blissey would come in and either hit toxic or teleport and gain massive value. They would have 16 uses of softboiled so running out would be no issue. Alternatively, we could also have gen 7 tyranitar with pursuit. It would be able to come in on chi yu and gain massive chip damage every time.
I've been using something similar but I like the power of Hex + Thunder Wave
Gholdengo @ Air Balloon
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Hex
- Make It Rain
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
big fan of standard issue defensive 252 /216+ / 44 Tera fairy with recover and nasty plot.
acts as a good switch in to valiant, surviving even a +2 knock off, and can take earthquakes from clodsire and some ting Lu, which gives it a good MU after forcing damage on some teams. Easily deals with Breloom lacking bulldoze and can 1v1 dragonite, chi pao and sometimes annihilape in a pinch. At the very least it can force out the water Tera type on the latter.
can take exactly 1 hit from most great tusk, and deal back good damage that tusk cannot recover. Whilst you have the option of switching out and recovering later on a non threat.
baits in chi yu, as most sets do.. so a switch in partner for the fire fish is essential, because this variant likes to switch in and out regularly.
I like this a lot, some speed control goes a long way to bolstering the effectiveness of a defensive pivot set.
Strong defensive chops, looks like a great stall mon. Seems like it covers similar bases to something like Dondozo though.
TrickScarf yeah? Fast Ghost/Steel is definitely a hard coverage spread to feel safe switching into off that special attack stat.
This is a subforum for singles! I’d try the Doubles subforum for posts like this
OOPS WRONG BOARD I DIDNT MEAN TO POST THIS HERE SORRY
No worries, good luck with your team and PM me if you need any further direction
Chi-Yu resists Pursuit and Blissey being the only counter to a special mon does not make it balanced. What are you on about?
It would still take about 30% from pursuit every time it switches out(which it would have to do if a tyranitar switches in). This makes tyranitar a much better switch in that would see more play.
As far as blissey, my point is that gen 8 blissey is literally a much stronger pokemon than gen 9 blissey. If it had its old move set it would be seeing much higher useage. Chi-yu would dramatically drop in useage. The point is that older mons that were useful for stall getting their movesets nerfed does matter a lot.
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