Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[awyp]

In light of Walking Wake, I have actually come to the realization that Specs Glimmora is almost impossible to switch into.

Glimmora @ Choice Specs
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Ground/Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb/Sludge Wave
- Power Gem
- Earth Power
- Spikes/Mortal Spin/Energy Ball/Veno Shock
With Sludge Bomb/Wave, Power Gem, and Earth Power on a Modest Specs set, Glimmora has almost nothing that can switch into it. With all the Pokemon currently in OU, only Ting-Lu and Air Balloon Gholdengo are able to switch into Glimmora safely, both only being temporary solutions to Specs Glimmora. Ting-Lu being withered away by Spikes, Toxic Spikes, stat drops, Energy Ball, and lack of reliable recovery. Or Glimmora can Terastallize into a Grass type to resist Ground while turning the just under 2HKO Energy Ball into a clean 2HKO.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glimmora Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 202-238 (39.2 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Grass Glimmora Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 302-356 (58.7 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Also, here is how much Gholdengo takes from Power Gem
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glimmora Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 116-137 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Gholdengo is nearly on death's bed from a resisted Rock move, and can't switch in again since Glimmora can just Earth Power next time if it wanted too.
Don't think about using Orthworm either. It gets crushed by Power Gem as well.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glimmora Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Orthworm: 174-205 (50.5 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And tbh this also got me thinking a bit.
What if Choice Band and Choice Specs are the problematic element that pushes tons of Pokemon over the edge? One thing I have noticed is that tons of Pokemon that have gotten banned in recent years are all Pokemon who abused Choice sets as their main or one of many sets they run. It's even more apparent now. I thought of this because here, Choice Specs can make a Pokemon like Glimmora into something with only 1 thing that can really safely switch in. Even Pokemon that should be able to safely switch into it fail to do so, like Orthworm.
Which kind of brings me to another point. That being Choice Specs/Band making it so wrong predictions are more rewarding, despite the being locked in drawback, with the exception of immunities.

Like let's say you switch your Iron Treads into Choice Specs Dragapult's Draco Meteor. Sounds pretty good, right? Well yes and no.
Compared to Choice Specs Shadow Ball, that Draco Meteor is a possible 4HKO after Stat drops. However, with that Choice Specs boost, that Draco Meteor from Dragapult took way more out of Iron Treads than you'd like, even more than non-choice specs Shadow Ball
252 SpA Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 145-172 (37.7 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 177-208 (46 - 54.1%) -- 4.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So with all the power of Choice Specs, you sometimes end up doing way more progress to the opponent while making the wrong move, than sometimes when you make the right move without Choice Specs (though most cases are not this extreme). The exception of course is immunities. If say you switched a Fairy type into Dragapult using Draco Meteor, that Dragapult would be in a lot of trouble. But if you think about it, how often do you see a Pokemon that switches in through immunities, and doesn't already force a switch anyways? Like if your Fairy type is Tera Garg, what would non-Choice Dragapult do besides U-turn (aka just switching out with extra steps)? More often than not, a Pokemon that can switch into a move while taking 0 damage is usually gonna force out what's in front of them. But when a Choice Pokemon is the one being forced out, its one that made way more progress or potentially made more progress. Dragapult would have done way more damage with Choice Specs Flamethrower against Fairy Garg than with any other item.

I don't expect this post to be a kick starter to having Choice Specs/Band to be banned, but I do think it's something worth discussing and is interesting.

Very cool set, yeah I mean it's hard to switch into and the times I do face Specs Glimm it usually tears up my team because I don't want to be touching it on the physical defensive end so I'm usually forced to switch out on a bad matchup because I'm always assuming to be passive (setting up spikes / Mortal spinning) etc.


Energy Ball for sure on the last slot.

 

[SpritePony]

In light of Walking Wake, I have actually come to the realization that Specs Glimmora is almost impossible to switch into.

Glimmora @ Choice Specs
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Ground/Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb/Sludge Wave
- Power Gem
- Earth Power
- Spikes/Mortal Spin/Energy Ball/Veno Shock
With Sludge Bomb/Wave, Power Gem, and Earth Power on a Modest Specs set, Glimmora has almost nothing that can switch into it. With all the Pokemon currently in OU, only Ting-Lu and Air Balloon Gholdengo are able to switch into Glimmora safely, both only being temporary solutions to Specs Glimmora. Ting-Lu being withered away by Spikes, Toxic Spikes, stat drops, Energy Ball, and lack of reliable recovery. Or Glimmora can Terastallize into a Grass type to resist Ground while turning the just under 2HKO Energy Ball into a clean 2HKO.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glimmora Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 202-238 (39.2 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Grass Glimmora Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 302-356 (58.7 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Also, here is how much Gholdengo takes from Power Gem
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glimmora Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 116-137 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Gholdengo is nearly on death's bed from a resisted Rock move, and can't switch in again since Glimmora can just Earth Power next time if it wanted too.
Don't think about using Orthworm either. It gets crushed by Power Gem as well.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glimmora Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Orthworm: 174-205 (50.5 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And tbh this also got me thinking a bit.
What if Choice Band and Choice Specs are the problematic element that pushes tons of Pokemon over the edge? One thing I have noticed is that tons of Pokemon that have gotten banned in recent years are all Pokemon who abused Choice sets as their main or one of many sets they run. It's even more apparent now. I thought of this because here, Choice Specs can make a Pokemon like Glimmora into something with only 1 thing that can really safely switch in. Even Pokemon that should be able to safely switch into it fail to do so, like Orthworm.
Which kind of brings me to another point. That being Choice Specs/Band making it so wrong predictions are more rewarding, despite the being locked in drawback, with the exception of immunities.

Like let's say you switch your Iron Treads into Choice Specs Dragapult's Draco Meteor. Sounds pretty good, right? Well yes and no.
Compared to Choice Specs Shadow Ball, that Draco Meteor is a possible 4HKO after Stat drops. However, with that Choice Specs boost, that Draco Meteor from Dragapult took way more out of Iron Treads than you'd like, even more than non-choice specs Shadow Ball
252 SpA Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 145-172 (37.7 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 177-208 (46 - 54.1%) -- 4.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So with all the power of Choice Specs, you sometimes end up doing way more progress to the opponent while making the wrong move, than sometimes when you make the right move without Choice Specs (though most cases are not this extreme). The exception of course is immunities. If say you switched a Fairy type into Dragapult using Draco Meteor, that Dragapult would be in a lot of trouble. But if you think about it, how often do you see a Pokemon that switches in through immunities, and doesn't already force a switch anyways? Like if your Fairy type is Tera Garg, what would non-Choice Dragapult do besides U-turn (aka just switching out with extra steps)? More often than not, a Pokemon that can switch into a move while taking 0 damage is usually gonna force out what's in front of them. But when a Choice Pokemon is the one being forced out, its one that made way more progress or potentially made more progress. Dragapult would have done way more damage with Choice Specs Flamethrower against Fairy Garg than with any other item.

I don't expect this post to be a kick starter to having Choice Specs/Band to be banned, but I do think it's something worth discussing and is interesting.

Very cool set, yeah I mean it's hard to switch into and the times I do face Specs Glimm it usually tears up my team because I don't want to be touching it on the physical defensive end so I'm usually forced to switch out on a bad matchup because I'm always assuming to be passive (setting up spikes / Mortal spinning) etc.


Energy Ball for sure on the last slot.

Exactly what Viet said here, last slot EBall 100% of the time. This thing hits like a damn truck and sucks to switch in on unless you can predict what move it wants to go for.
Bulky AV Iron Treads can come in on Sludge Wave/Power Gem all quite a few times, but EBall/EPower absolutely nukes it.
Bulky AV Kingambit comes in on most attacks, but crumples over and dies to EPower.
Standard Eviolite Bisharp actually comes in on it fairly handily, except for EPower.
SpDef Hippowdon and Tinkaton can give you trouble too, but as before... EBall and EPower respectively.

There are SOME switches for it, but smart planning and prediction beats them handily. Also half of these sets are literally just ones I'd make off the cuff if I were running into this a lot. (In other words, people'd call them bad for being outside the box.)

 

[YNM]

Bro even the CEO of "please ban Garganacl" gave up, there's no hope

Then from now on I shalt be the new CEO of the Garg haters club.

 

[Skyuchi]

In light of Walking Wake, I have actually come to the realization that Specs Glimmora is almost impossible to switch into.

Glimmora @ Choice Specs
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Ground/Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb/Sludge Wave
- Power Gem
- Earth Power
- Spikes/Mortal Spin/Energy Ball/Veno Shock
With Sludge Bomb/Wave, Power Gem, and Earth Power on a Modest Specs set, Glimmora has almost nothing that can switch into it. With all the Pokemon currently in OU, only Ting-Lu and Air Balloon Gholdengo are able to switch into Glimmora safely, both only being temporary solutions to Specs Glimmora. Ting-Lu being withered away by Spikes, Toxic Spikes, stat drops, Energy Ball, and lack of reliable recovery. Or Glimmora can Terastallize into a Grass type to resist Ground while turning the just under 2HKO Energy Ball into a clean 2HKO.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glimmora Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 202-238 (39.2 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Grass Glimmora Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 302-356 (58.7 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Also, here is how much Gholdengo takes from Power Gem
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glimmora Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 116-137 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Gholdengo is nearly on death's bed from a resisted Rock move, and can't switch in again since Glimmora can just Earth Power next time if it wanted too.
Don't think about using Orthworm either. It gets crushed by Power Gem as well.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glimmora Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Orthworm: 174-205 (50.5 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And tbh this also got me thinking a bit.
What if Choice Band and Choice Specs are the problematic element that pushes tons of Pokemon over the edge? One thing I have noticed is that tons of Pokemon that have gotten banned in recent years are all Pokemon who abused Choice sets as their main or one of many sets they run. It's even more apparent now. I thought of this because here, Choice Specs can make a Pokemon like Glimmora into something with only 1 thing that can really safely switch in. Even Pokemon that should be able to safely switch into it fail to do so, like Orthworm.
Which kind of brings me to another point. That being Choice Specs/Band making it so wrong predictions are more rewarding, despite the being locked in drawback, with the exception of immunities.

Like let's say you switch your Iron Treads into Choice Specs Dragapult's Draco Meteor. Sounds pretty good, right? Well yes and no.
Compared to Choice Specs Shadow Ball, that Draco Meteor is a possible 4HKO after Stat drops. However, with that Choice Specs boost, that Draco Meteor from Dragapult took way more out of Iron Treads than you'd like, even more than non-choice specs Shadow Ball
252 SpA Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 145-172 (37.7 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 177-208 (46 - 54.1%) -- 4.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So with all the power of Choice Specs, you sometimes end up doing way more progress to the opponent while making the wrong move, than sometimes when you make the right move without Choice Specs (though most cases are not this extreme). The exception of course is immunities. If say you switched a Fairy type into Dragapult using Draco Meteor, that Dragapult would be in a lot of trouble. But if you think about it, how often do you see a Pokemon that switches in through immunities, and doesn't already force a switch anyways? Like if your Fairy type is Tera Garg, what would non-Choice Dragapult do besides U-turn (aka just switching out with extra steps)? More often than not, a Pokemon that can switch into a move while taking 0 damage is usually gonna force out what's in front of them. But when a Choice Pokemon is the one being forced out, its one that made way more progress or potentially made more progress. Dragapult would have done way more damage with Choice Specs Flamethrower against Fairy Garg than with any other item.

I don't expect this post to be a kick starter to having Choice Specs/Band to be banned, but I do think it's something worth discussing and is interesting.

I do think Choice items break a lot of Pokemon, but without them wallbreaking would be nearly impossible in this day and age. You can look back at GSC which had no real power items really where your generic Special walls were pretty unbreakable (lax, blissey, kinda raikou, few others) and the Physical side was a bit more dodgy since you needed either to phase them out or curse up yourself. All of those walls are dog water compared to what we have now, even kinda Blissey given better walls that actually can do things in return besides toxic/toss exist.
We did get crazy offense items and abilities but we got some arguably even crazier defense to compensate. Regenerator/Unaware core would absolute hell if you either needed to kill yourself with Life Orb or needed to bank on just using something like a Chi-Yu Charcoal Overheat, which is probably a less healthy metagame since you're forced to use the one or two breakers that work.
As it stands, choice items add a nice dynamic where you can wallbreak with proper prediction, or wear down walls/the one check to that STAB move you really want to spam since it 2HKOs everything else. Wincons like that feel good and without them it just either becomes a linear game or very stally.
They reward the player who gets super lucky with their guesses predicts better, and they punish that player if they predict wrong while also preventing it from being stall v stall/balance every match, so they're good for the game.

 

[Soiramio3000]

I believe that gallade's "sharpness" came one generation too late.
if it had that ability back in gen 8 ,where there were both less ghosts and darktypes running around, it would have performed pretty well.

 

[awyp]

I believe that gallade's "sharpness" came one generation too late.
if it had that ability back in gen 8 ,where there were both less ghosts and darktypes running around, it would have performed pretty well.

Agreed but shoulda woulda coulda, it happened and I think it's beneficial for gen 9 because Gallade is really good in UU but I also think could make noise in OU when certain things get banned.

 

[Magcargo]

Agreed but shoulda woulda coulda, it happened and I think it's beneficial for gen 9 because Gallade is really good in UU but I also think could make noise in OU when certain things get banned.

Idk, might be in the minority here, but I think Gallade's biggest source of competition is Great Tusk, who's cracked statline and utility compression feel like it leaves Gallade little room to shine. Unless that gets banned, I think Gallade will have a hard time fitting on most "general" teams.

 

[Soiramio3000]

Idk, might be in the minority here, but I think Gallade's biggest source of competition is Great Tusk, who's cracked statline and utility compression feel like it leaves Gallade little room to shine. Unless that gets banned, I think Gallade will have a hard time fitting on most "general" teams.

I don't think great tusk has much to do with gallade's performance in OU.

I often use gallade and do you know what I have noticed in most of my matches: many teams have both dark types and ghost types simultaneously.

so it is hard to predict which stab move to use since the opponent can switch to something with imminity.

even if great tusk got banned gallade would still be underperforming in OU.

 

[YNM]

Idk, might be in the minority here, but I think Gallade's biggest source of competition is Great Tusk, who's cracked statline and utility compression feel like it leaves Gallade little room to shine. Unless that gets banned, I think Gallade will have a hard time fitting on most "general" teams.

I mean, I don't really see how Tusk is the reason for Gallade's underwhelming presence in OU. They cover almost completely opposite roles, with Tusk being generally a great utility mon that can offer both great defensive support and offensive pressure to opposing teams, while Gallade is purely a glass cannon that can only work with either 4 moves and a Choice item, or SD to further threaten stall and bulky teams. The only real reason why we'll never see Gallade perform consistently in OU is its garbage ass Speed, which cannot compare to the Speed tier of the other offensive threats in OU.

 

[pika pal]

I think Gallade's ultimate issue is that while Sharpness fixed his power, his other stats aren't distributed well for his role. Calling back to his Mega, while he gained power and Bulk I would argue the most substantial gain he had at the time was going up to a Base 110 speed. 80 is kind of an awkward place where even a lot of our "slow" Wallbreakers or tanks are creeping that tier for stuff like Dragonite or Gholdengo and Neutral Tusk, while not offering anything for Defensive utility compared to other comparable attackers.

I think that if Gallade were to have a niche in OU, it would probably have to come from an Agility set. The 518-568 range in one turn puts him above a lot of relevant responses like +1 Iron Valiant, +1 Roaring Moon, Positive Dragapult, Scarf Greninja/Cinderace and the like, +1 Adamant Tusk, etc. to clean without fear of Revenge Kills or a fast-switch-on-boost response, while having decent enough power and thus needing less overall Chip vs specific-targets weakened for that pressure. I don't think this would be OU viable even then but it's the first thing I see that isn't immediately being done by something else in the tier as an offensive role, particularly with Tera to buy the set-up and gain STAB on a coverage move and/or Nuclear Sacred Swords (losing the Psychic Defenses lets him more comfortably take Kingambit's Sucker Punch with any number of Faints). Also importantly reduces his dependence on Shadow Sneak for any form of speed.

The default power isn't bad, but I think if you're going nuclear you'd be better off with a different mon as opposed to trying for quicker-usage of that strength. Itemless Gallade with Sharpness-boosted moves and/or Tera hits about as hard as some itemed Pokemon can, so probably better to try and patch up his bad speed with a tool he has for it, than go all in on power and effectively make Edgy Rampardos.

Note: Manaphy was made ???/Typeless for these comparisons to keep the focus on numbers

Some comparisons

Expert Belt but hitting neutral anyway
252 Atk Sharpness Tera Fighting Gallade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 286-338 (83.8 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sharpness Gallade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 214-253 (62.7 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sharpness Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 168-198 (49.2 - 58%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO

Big hitters just above his base speed
252 Atk Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 264-312 (77.4 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 298-352 (87.3 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Fast Hard-hitters
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 220-259 (64.5 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 265-313 (77.7 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 254-302 (74.4 - 88.5%) -- approx. 2HKO

 

[awyp]

I mean, I don't really see how Tusk is the reason for Gallade's underwhelming presence in OU. They cover almost completely opposite roles, with Tusk being generally a great utility mon that can offer both great defensive support and offensive pressure to opposing teams, while Gallade is purely a glass cannon that can only work with either 4 moves and a Choice item, or SD to further threaten stall and bulky teams. The only real reason why we'll never see Gallade perform consistently in OU is its garbage ass Speed, which cannot compare to the Speed tier of the other offensive threats in OU.

Just saying Gallade learns agility

Life Orb Gallade + Agility calc vs Offensive Tusk: 252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 374-445 (100.8 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[YNM]

Just saying Gallade learns agility

Life Orb Gallade + Agility calc vs Offensive Tusk: 252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 374-445 (100.8 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I know it does lol, hence why I believe Agility and Scarf are by far its best sets, just like pika pal said. But the thing is that you obviously need a turn to set up in order to actually be threatening before getting OHKOd yourself, and if that's the case you might as well run another set up sweeper that can be more consistent even before getting the Speed boost, like DD Pult, SD/Calm Mind Valiant or DD Bax.
P.S. Adamant Gallade with Life Orb does only 100-120% with a supereffective move?! My brother I might as well stay in and Tera my Tusk, just so I can KO it with EQ...

 

[ZannaBianca]

I mean, I don't really see how Tusk is the reason for Gallade's underwhelming presence in OU. They cover almost completely opposite roles, with Tusk being generally a great utility mon that can offer both great defensive support and offensive pressure to opposing teams, while Gallade is purely a glass cannon that can only work with either 4 moves and a Choice item, or SD to further threaten stall and bulky teams. The only real reason why we'll never see Gallade perform consistently in OU is its garbage ass Speed, which cannot compare to the Speed tier of the other offensive threats in OU.

Yeah, honestly I would say that it's almost the opposite, with Tusk almost always the go-to defensive backbone on many teams while being 2HKOed by Psycho Cut. I think one of the main issues for Gallade is instead Ghold, resisting both STABs and either outspeeding and OHKOing with minimal chip or just tanking any move and then using Recover (even Knock Off if manouvered carefully).

 

[Magcargo]

I mean, I don't really see how Tusk is the reason for Gallade's underwhelming presence in OU. They cover almost completely opposite roles, with Tusk being generally a great utility mon that can offer both great defensive support and offensive pressure to opposing teams, while Gallade is purely a glass cannon that can only work with either 4 moves and a Choice item, or SD to further threaten stall and bulky teams. The only real reason why we'll never see Gallade perform consistently in OU is its garbage ass Speed, which cannot compare to the Speed tier of the other offensive threats in OU.

CB Tusk is faster and stronger than Gallade and has more entry points to come in on mons like Kingambit + can run a variety of other offensive sets like Eject Pack to continue playing offense while still having crucial defensive and general utility vs various threats. Gallade does have some good tricks vs bulky or slower teams, like Trick, SD, and Knock, but its comparitive lack of defensive utility can make it difficult to make use of these good traits consistently compared to Great Tusk, who I think is much better at using Knock Off than Gallade.

I don't think Gallade would become a superstar per-se if Great Tusk wasn't in the meta, but on most teams I've tried to run a variant of Gallade on, I would swap it with a similar variant of Great Tusk and it more or less did the job that I was running Gallade for better (mainly Knock usage since most people don't like switching Gholdengo into Gallade, which should in theory be its main advantage). Movepool advantages that Gallade had like SD or Trick would rarely come into play due to opposing team structures making it difficult to use these moves (either due to exerting too much offensive pressure or just not being useful vs the opponent).

 

[YNM]

CB Tusk is faster and stronger than Gallade and has more entry points to come in on mons like Kingambit + can run a variety of other offensive sets like Eject Pack to continue playing offense while still having crucial defensive and general utility vs various threats. Gallade does have some good tricks vs bulky or slower teams, like Trick, SD, and Knock, but its comparitive lack of defensive utility can make it difficult to make use of these good traits consistently compared to Great Tusk, who I think is much better at using Knock Off than Gallade.

Oh okay I see what you mean now, Tusk is indeed way more reliable in terms of offense, since you can always slap a Band or a Scarf on it and expect it to put some work. Although I would argue that the Bulk Up set is by far the best Tusk set out there, but I'm kinda biased.

 

[Mega Breloom]

CB Tusk is faster and stronger than Gallade and has more entry points to come in on mons like Kingambit + can run a variety of other offensive sets like Eject Pack to continue playing offense while still having crucial defensive and general utility vs various threats. Gallade does have some good tricks vs bulky or slower teams, like Trick, SD, and Knock, but its comparitive lack of defensive utility can make it difficult to make use of these good traits consistently compared to Great Tusk, who I think is much better at using Knock Off than Gallade.

I don't think Gallade would become a superstar per-se if Great Tusk wasn't in the meta, but on most teams I've tried to run a variant of Gallade on, I would swap it with a similar variant of Great Tusk and it more or less did the job that I was running Gallade for better (mainly Knock usage since most people don't like switching Gholdengo into Gallade, which should in theory be its main advantage). Movepool advantages that Gallade had like SD or Trick would rarely come into play due to opposing team structures making it difficult to use these moves (either due to exerting too much offensive pressure or just not being useful vs the opponent).

I think Gallade's true competition would be Bax, a better typing for both, offense and defense with a bulk that allows to take some hits and some priority moves, while bax stab combination is great and not much things like to switch into them so it is less prediction reliable.

 

[Return to Zero]

Ironic that Gallade doesn't compete with Iron Valiant at all because they're so different.

Agility/Life Orb is probably the way to go with it. The big problem is that the list of special attackers it can safely set up in front of is really small. It's Ghost weak, so Gholdengo and anyone packing Shadow Ball are probably out. H-Zoroark in particular hits it super effectively and drops its Attack after. Pelipper can hurt it really bad with Hurricane, once Wake is gone and rain teams are back in season. Hatterene's Psyshock is a neutral hit to its awful Defense. Rotom can burn it and take it out of the equation altogether. Skeledirge. Gallade really just needs something it can survive in front of for one turn without getting burned or losing so much HP it only has two attacks left in it.

At least it gets Shadow Sneak.

disclaimer i love gallade so this was painful to write

 

[viivian]

I mean, I don't really see how Tusk is the reason for Gallade's underwhelming presence in OU. They cover almost completely opposite roles, with Tusk being generally a great utility mon that can offer both great defensive support and offensive pressure to opposing teams, while Gallade is purely a glass cannon that can only work with either 4 moves and a Choice item, or SD to further threaten stall and bulky teams. The only real reason why we'll never see Gallade perform consistently in OU is its garbage ass Speed, which cannot compare to the Speed tier of the other offensive threats in OU.

this. gallade is subpar by virtue of its below average speed and its complete lack of options to bolster said speed. that's literally why it is not commonly used in OU. there are other factors that come into play as to why gallade isn't seen very often but most of it boils down to its poor speed stat. there really isn't any one pokemon who outclasses it super hard since there isn't really anything else that can do what gallade does so i don't know why everyone keeps chalking its low OU usage up to being "completely outclassed" by a pokemon that takes up a completely different teamslot in most cases. great tusk isn't the tapu lele to gallade's mega gardevoir or anything, aside from being strong fighting types they literally are not even remotely similar to one another.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Idk, might be in the minority here, but I think Gallade's biggest source of competition is Great Tusk, who's cracked statline and utility compression feel like it leaves Gallade little room to shine. Unless that gets banned, I think Gallade will have a hard time fitting on most "general" teams.

gallade's biggest source of competition is its own base stats. it sits in that awkward speed tier that needs scarf to do anything against offense, and if you put scarf on it you just lose to fat teams instead. it also can't come in on any physical attack ever. being frail without being fast is… not great

 

[1LDK]

You know, i have seen for a long time things such as "Torkoal is passive" "is useless" "dead weight" what are you guys running on it?

 

[SunCooled]

You know, i have seen for a long time things such as "Torkoal is passive" "is useless" "dead weight" what are you guys running on it?

Stats (Ctrl + F + "Torkoal")
The vast majority of sets are just:
Lava Plume
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock
Yawn
Heat Rock
Spdef

Its pretty passive, I've run into some boots sets but its far too much of a cost overall imo. I've also seen willowisp to get more consistent mileage out of it but I think plume is consistent enough. I've played around with Eject Pack + Proto Setup (DD moon or growth bonnet usually) but its kind of a gimmick that undermines sun as a playstyle. might be fun with some kind of agility wake set but doubt it

 

[Return to Zero]

I don't know if there's much you can run on Torkoal. Pelipper can do work with Hurricane and Hydro Pump because it actually has an attacking stat and high damage moves to work with. What's Torkoal got? Body Press? Clear Smog? ...Flame Charge? Shell Smash is beyond useless on it, and Eruption spam only works on the Trick Room teams no one is running.

 

[1LDK]

Stats (Ctrl + F + "Torkoal")
The vast majority of sets are just:
Lava Plume
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock
Yawn
Heat Rock
Spdef

Its pretty passive, I've run into some boots sets but its far too much of a cost overall imo. I've also seen willowisp to get more consistent mileage out of it but I think plume is consistent enough. I've played around with Eject Pack + Proto Setup (DD moon or growth bonnet usually) but its kind of a gimmick that undermines sun as a playstyle. might be fun with some kind of agility wake set but doubt it

I don't know if there's much you can run on Torkoal. Pelipper can do work with Hurricane and Hydro Pump because it actually has an attacking stat and high damage moves to work with. What's Torkoal got? Body Press? Clear Smog? ...Flame Charge? Shell Smash is beyond useless on it, and Eruption spam only works on the Trick Room teams no one is running.

Drop Body press, get Clear Smog and/or Earth Power

what does Earth Power do for torkoal?

hit opposing Torkoals, brawl 1v1 with garganacl, you now can poke Cereludge, Armarouge, Clodsire, iron moth, tera fire kingambit and skelerdige, I like Clear Smog as a side grade for Yawn becaue its taunt proof and cannot be bounced, sure this might not sound like a lot, but its less pasive this way, besides, running spin on tusk opens the bulk up set which is fun, give it a try

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Torkoal also has Will o Wisp. Helps a lot against physical attackers from switching in, or setting up.

 

[SunCooled]

Drop Body press, get Clear Smog and/or Earth Power

what does Earth Power do for torkoal?

hit opposing Torkoals, brawl 1v1 with garganacl, you now can poke Cereludge, Armarouge, Clodsire, iron moth, tera fire kingambit and skelerdige, I like Clear Smog as a side grade for Yawn becaue its taunt proof and cannot be bounced, sure this might not sound like a lot, but its less pasive this way, besides, running spin on tusk opens the bulk up set which is fun, give it a try

offensive_torkoal.jpeg