Just for reference can you Doom Desire turn 1, then Future Sight turn 2 or does it fail?
-
The moderators of this forum are Finchinator, Ruft, ausma, 658Greninja, kd458, FayaWizard, Srn, TPP, and viivian.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2024 Smog Awards!
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Just for reference can you Doom Desire turn 1, then Future Sight turn 2 or does it fail?
it fails! just tested on OU ladder
I'm 99% sure you cannot stack them, the second one will fail. I have no idea how this works in doubles if they're selected same turn on different opponents etc.
Jirachi constantly feels like one of those mons that is on the cusp of some sort of greatness. Doom Desire hits like a truck and its ability to debuff is great... If only there wasn't 70 dark types in any given match at once
at the very least it offers another rocker, u-turn, wish, hax advantage, doom desire is more spammable than fsight (8pp fucking hurts tho)
could be a cool mon ngl
what are y'all's favorite double/triple ground type comps atm? was talking about it with a friend ealier and mentioned tusk + gliscor comps being real
tusk+lando has been something i've had a bit of fun with recently. Lando has a reasonably fast u-turn that can get tusk in safely on quite a bit of stuff. As long as you back pocket something to deal with kyurem you can kinda just slide in tusk, and between intim and 135 base defense pretty much no physical attack is gonna do a whole bunch. Pair this with a solid special wall and something to deal with ice types and you're pretty much set lol
It had been a while, but here's some more monopoison stall action for you guys. Decently high this time too. This game made me want to rip my eyes out honestly
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2309427403
Remember. Never goon, always innovate.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2309427403
Remember. Never goon, always innovate.
I played around with it as a weird pivot with a scarf, it felt kinda... nice? But I didn't really refine the team comp for it, I feel like with Doom Desire having such spammability really gives it a niche. I used it in conjunction with CB Zama and it was fucking wicked, no fairy wanted to come in and any ghosts ate shit due to crunch. (Originally used Famigo with scarf, but sadly bird is hard to use)
I feel like it has legit potential, I might revisit the concept cuz Iron Valian appreciated something that could let it come in on other Iron Valiants to rock their shit (doom desire wiping fairy types off the map)
the combo of rocks + healing wish on an actual speed tier is really nice imo, plus it threatens to outspeed and ohko great tusk which is nice on a rocker. the main issue imo is that its typing is competing with ghold and crown and its not a great type combo to stack
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Jirachi Doom Desire vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 370-436 (105.1 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This calc is quite interesting because sometimes a stall team's answer to FS combos is to go into spdef Gliscor and click Protect. However, if you predict that and switch Jirachi back in, you can just straight up OHKO. Remember, Doom Desire is 140 base power!
This calc is quite interesting because sometimes a stall team's answer to FS combos is to go into spdef Gliscor and click Protect. However, if you predict that and switch Jirachi back in, you can just straight up OHKO. Remember, Doom Desire is 140 base power!
My first attempt at a Jirachi team:
https://pokepast.es/ef0c42a2f183cc35
I basically took hellom's week 4 SPL team, so credit goes to him, and I replaced Iron Crown with Jirachi. I changed AV Alomomola to the standard pivot set. This team is actually pretty fun, at least when I tested it. Thunder on Jirachi hits Corviknight and Moltres.
https://pokepast.es/ef0c42a2f183cc35
I basically took hellom's week 4 SPL team, so credit goes to him, and I replaced Iron Crown with Jirachi. I changed AV Alomomola to the standard pivot set. This team is actually pretty fun, at least when I tested it. Thunder on Jirachi hits Corviknight and Moltres.
Last edited:
Starting to realize that you don't really need Smack Down Ursaluna because the Corviknights just love to roost in your face regardless. I fucking WISH Supercell slam wasn't inaccurate because the power increase is massive but missing it on that Moltres you need to kill sucks so bad.
I laugh whenever someone misses Supercell Slam with Iron Hands. The insistence on running this trash move is disgusting. Wild Charge is simply better. You have 6 billion HP you do NOT care about a little recoil. But you do care about losing half when they switch a Ground type into your Electric type (who would've thought that Ground switches into Electric).
Hi,
boing boing boing boing
Hear me out rq. I promise I'm not proposing anything silly
Regieleki was quickbanned with the release of Pokemon Home, in circumstances that were entirely understandable. The metagame was less explored and stable than it now is, with an overall lower power level, and Regieleki boasted impressive power with its ability, Transistor, boosting its Electric-type moves by a further 50% on top of STAB. With a powerful Thunderbolt that only bulky Grass-type or Ground-type Pokemon could be expected to withstand, Tera Blast Ice was extremely potent and allowed it to dispatch of the vast majority of counterplay. Pokemon that were neutral to Eleki's attacks would still take a strong Volt Switch for their troubles. With this in mind, the ban made sense.
However, it turned out that something very significant was wrong. Shortly after the ban, it was discovered that Transistor was nerfed from a 50% damage increase to a 30% damage increase. This is a rather substantial downgrade- think about how much stronger Choiced Pokemon are than Life Orb ones. This fundamentally changes a lot of the dynamics that led to Eleki's quickban, as suddenly generically bulky Pokemon are much more capable of taking Thunderbolts and Volt Switches than they were before. This discovery was not deemed enough to earn Regieleki another try in OU at the time, as the tier was already dealing with more than enough, but I've always seen it as a bit of a stain on the otherwise clean tiering of this generation- Regieleki, the Pokemon that was banned before it was even properly implemented on Showdown.
Nowadays, OU is fairly well-established and has a higher power level, and I really don't think Eleki is obviously broken. While I'm not pushing for immediate action, I'd say it's a far more serious consideration for testing down than the other Ubers oft posted about in this thread, even before considering that its ban is already on shaky grounds.
boing boing boing boingHear me out rq. I promise I'm not proposing anything silly
Regieleki was quickbanned with the release of Pokemon Home, in circumstances that were entirely understandable. The metagame was less explored and stable than it now is, with an overall lower power level, and Regieleki boasted impressive power with its ability, Transistor, boosting its Electric-type moves by a further 50% on top of STAB. With a powerful Thunderbolt that only bulky Grass-type or Ground-type Pokemon could be expected to withstand, Tera Blast Ice was extremely potent and allowed it to dispatch of the vast majority of counterplay. Pokemon that were neutral to Eleki's attacks would still take a strong Volt Switch for their troubles. With this in mind, the ban made sense.
However, it turned out that something very significant was wrong. Shortly after the ban, it was discovered that Transistor was nerfed from a 50% damage increase to a 30% damage increase. This is a rather substantial downgrade- think about how much stronger Choiced Pokemon are than Life Orb ones. This fundamentally changes a lot of the dynamics that led to Eleki's quickban, as suddenly generically bulky Pokemon are much more capable of taking Thunderbolts and Volt Switches than they were before. This discovery was not deemed enough to earn Regieleki another try in OU at the time, as the tier was already dealing with more than enough, but I've always seen it as a bit of a stain on the otherwise clean tiering of this generation- Regieleki, the Pokemon that was banned before it was even properly implemented on Showdown.
Nowadays, OU is fairly well-established and has a higher power level, and I really don't think Eleki is obviously broken. While I'm not pushing for immediate action, I'd say it's a far more serious consideration for testing down than the other Ubers oft posted about in this thread, even before considering that its ban is already on shaky grounds.
- It needs Tera. This is a really big deal, Tera usage has only become more conservative and optimized as the Generation progresses. We saw what Eleki was like without Tera last gen, and that was pre-nerf. In order to ever contribute meaningfully to a team, it is all but required to Terastallize. In return for this price, you get... A functional pivot and good revenge killer? Other banned Pokemon that hogged Tera, such as Volcarona and Espathra, tended to reward that commitment with winning the game instantly. Eleki, on the other hand, becomes a good Pokemon with almost zero defensive utility (the bulk is genuinely embarassing which I'll touch on more later), solid power, and the ability to pivot into teammates that can no longer make use of your Tera to become more threatening pivot recipients. I think SV already has several strong offensive pivots that don't necessitate your Tera to do their job (think Cinderace, Zapdos, Lokix, Meowscarada) and plenty of fast revenge killers that are similarly non-committal and don't pop instantly to priority-based sweepers. Those mons also allow you to save your Tera for your DD Dragon or SD Gliscor or Garg or whatever.
- Even with Tera it is kinda just a Volt Switch bot (and intensely priority vulnerable). Being slightly stronger than Tapu Koko isn't really winning any awards, especially when you're made of paper and lack the defensively gifted Fairy typing and Calm Mind and Taunt and Roost and U-turn and. You get it. Its Thunderbolt is a 4HKO on Sp.Def Boots Glowking, Its Tera Blast Ice is a 4HKO on standard Ting-Lu. Hell, Its Thunderbolt isn't KOing standard Tera Water Gliscor, and you can forget about meaningfully threatening Tera Normal lol. All of these very easily 2HKO Tera Ice Regieleki btw. As a frame of reference versus more generic opponents, its Thunderbolt almost never 2HKOs any Zamazenta and it drops in one to Body Press or Close Combat. So what does Eleki do? Well versus Ting-Lu, nothing, but versus the other examples it just Volt Switches for some damage. That's also its only real recourse versus the many offensive mons that can tank it and easily OHKO it, or use it as setup fodder (e.g. Dragonite who OHKOs even bulk invested Eleki with +1 Tera ESpeed or 2HKOs with unboosted ESpeed lol, Kingambit, Roaring Moon). Sure, fairly strong Volt Switching is good, but I'm really not entirely convinced it's worth the cost of always being your Tera user and therefore being a pivot that can never bring in a broken Tera abuser safely.
- Tera Ice is a curse in many ways. But OMG BoltBeam Waow... Yeah and you're locked to Boots and can never switch into Anything. Like really, Everything is dangerous for Eleki, which is true before Terastallizing but especially afterwards. Almost any attack is doing 50% at minimum, Gliscor's uninvested non-STAB Knock Off does up to 46% (and therefore puts Regieleki into range of Literally Every Priority Move too). Knock Off is especially bad news when you're now an Ice-type, so keep that in mind. Basically, Eleki is incredibly difficult to get on the field without slow pivoting, and many of the slow pivots in the format share weaknesses with Eleki. There's also the other problem, which is that clicking Tera Blast means you aren't clicking Volt Switch. Tera Blast is rarely KOing, well, anything without substantial chip- the main exceptions are 4x weak Pokemon and bulkless Great Tusk. And in return, pretty much every TB target threatens to OHKO you for choosing to stay in. Hell, you can't do anything meaningful versus Booster Raging Bolt because Thunderclap just instantly kills Terad Eleki lol. Sure, you can chip stuff down and aim to pick them off later with TB, but I don't find that necessarily unfair with the pace of SV. Eleki spamming Volt Switch is extremely telegraphed, and you can kinda often just stay in and punish it for doing so and come out of the situation fairly well-off.
The issue wasn’t timing, but that in practice the change doesn’t atrial do anything to make it more palatable. It’s a ridiculously difficult, borderline impossible Pokémon to punish offensively and thus punish it. It doesn’t really matter if something can take a hit once, it just gets volt switched on. If you can’t block its volt switches with grounds (fault of Tera blast), there’s nothing really stopping it from just chaining volt switches with other pivoting teammates and forcing very uncomfortable gameplay states.
“Needing Tera” wasn’t a detriment before and wouldn’t be now either. Nor is being weak to priority which also was true before and isn’t reasonable enough now. TingLu might stop it but that’s one Pokémon and while it’s a top 3 Mon, that’s just not enough.
Lastly with no disrespect menant, I just don’t see why this is suddenly being brought up. It brings zero positive value to the tier at all and is a very restrictive Pokémon to build vs and play against. The tier is very saturated with high level threats as is and doesn’t need another.
I am opposed to Regieleki getting back to OU, but Ting-Lu is not the only Mon that stops it. Iron Treads is a thing, Kyurem is not terrible (provided it either has some support or uses a Lefties Sub Protect set), AV Glowking exists (though I think its a suboptimal set), Sdef Clodsire is still good, Gambit, Lokix and Rillaboom are offensive checks, since Regieleki is frail as fuck. Tera Electric Regenerator Mons are also options.
That being said, I don,t want another big threat that is pretty hard to check in OU, so I wouldn,t like Regieleki down.
That being said, I don,t want another big threat that is pretty hard to check in OU, so I wouldn,t like Regieleki down.
Hi,
Hear me out rq. I promise I'm not proposing anything silly
Regieleki was quickbanned with the release of Pokemon Home, in circumstances that were entirely understandable. The metagame was less explored and stable than it now is, with an overall lower power level, and Regieleki boasted impressive power with its ability, Transistor, boosting its Electric-type moves by a further 50% on top of STAB. With a powerful Thunderbolt that only bulky Grass-type or Ground-type Pokemon could be expected to withstand, Tera Blast Ice was extremely potent and allowed it to dispatch of the vast majority of counterplay. Pokemon that were neutral to Eleki's attacks would still take a strong Volt Switch for their troubles. With this in mind, the ban made sense.
However, it turned out that something very significant was wrong. Shortly after the ban, it was discovered that Transistor was nerfed from a 50% damage increase to a 30% damage increase. This is a rather substantial downgrade- think about how much stronger Choiced Pokemon are than Life Orb ones. This fundamentally changes a lot of the dynamics that led to Eleki's quickban, as suddenly generically bulky Pokemon are much more capable of taking Thunderbolts and Volt Switches than they were before. This discovery was not deemed enough to earn Regieleki another try in OU at the time, as the tier was already dealing with more than enough, but I've always seen it as a bit of a stain on the otherwise clean tiering of this generation- Regieleki, the Pokemon that was banned before it was even properly implemented on Showdown.
Nowadays, OU is fairly well-established and has a higher power level, and I really don't think Eleki is obviously broken. While I'm not pushing for immediate action, I'd say it's a far more serious consideration for testing down than the other Ubers oft posted about in this thread, even before considering that its ban is already on shaky grounds.
Would Eleki be strong? Yes. It has a fantastic Speed tier that notably gets the jump on Booster Energy Iron Valiant, can compress Rapid Spin for non-Tusk teams, and it is admittedly threatening if you're willing to always invest your Tera in it. Do I think its weaknesses are understated currently, and that the strength of being a good pivot bot (a less potent role than in previous Generations) is overstated for the cost of always requiring your Tera in a metagame where that is an incredibly valuable resource? Also yes. Do I think that a Pokemon banned while being incorrectly stronger than it actually is, two DLCs ago, deserves a second chance at some point? Triple yes. Not necessarily right now, but I think it's a far more serious (and fair) consideration than the likes of Solgaleo and Lugia, and I want to shine some light on this unjustly treated Pokemon and get people thinking about it.
- It needs Tera. This is a really big deal, Tera usage has only become more conservative and optimized as the Generation progresses. We saw what Eleki was like without Tera last gen, and that was pre-nerf. In order to ever contribute meaningfully to a team, it is all but required to Terastallize. In return for this price, you get... A functional pivot and good revenge killer? Other banned Pokemon that hogged Tera, such as Volcarona and Espathra, tended to reward that commitment with winning the game instantly. Eleki, on the other hand, becomes a good Pokemon with almost zero defensive utility (the bulk is genuinely embarassing which I'll touch on more later), solid power, and the ability to pivot into teammates that can no longer make use of your Tera to become more threatening pivot recipients. I think SV already has several strong offensive pivots that don't necessitate your Tera to do their job (think Cinderace, Zapdos, Lokix, Meowscarada) and plenty of fast revenge killers that are similarly non-committal and don't pop instantly to priority-based sweepers. Those mons also allow you to save your Tera for your DD Dragon or SD Gliscor or Garg or whatever.
- Even with Tera it is kinda just a Volt Switch bot (and intensely priority vulnerable). Being slightly stronger than Tapu Koko isn't really winning any awards, especially when you're made of paper and lack the defensively gifted Fairy typing and Calm Mind and Taunt and Roost and U-turn and. You get it. Its Thunderbolt is a 4HKO on Sp.Def Boots Glowking, Its Tera Blast Ice is a 4HKO on standard Ting-Lu. Hell, Its Thunderbolt isn't KOing standard Tera Water Gliscor, and you can forget about meaningfully threatening Tera Normal lol. All of these very easily 2HKO Tera Ice Regieleki btw. As a frame of reference versus more generic opponents, its Thunderbolt almost never 2HKOs any Zamazenta and it drops in one to Body Press or Close Combat. So what does Eleki do? Well versus Ting-Lu, nothing, but versus the other examples it just Volt Switches for some damage. That's also its only real recourse versus the many offensive mons that can tank it and easily OHKO it, or use it as setup fodder (e.g. Dragonite who OHKOs even bulk invested Eleki with +1 Tera ESpeed or 2HKOs with unboosted ESpeed lol, Kingambit, Roaring Moon). Sure, fairly strong Volt Switching is good, but I'm really not entirely convinced it's worth the cost of always being your Tera user and therefore being a pivot that can never bring in a broken Tera abuser safely.
- Tera Ice is a curse in many ways. But OMG BoltBeam Waow... Yeah and you're locked to Boots and can never switch into Anything. Like really, Everything is dangerous for Eleki, which is true before Terastallizing but especially afterwards. Almost any attack is doing 50% at minimum, Gliscor's uninvested non-STAB Knock Off does up to 46% (and therefore puts Regieleki into range of Literally Every Priority Move too). Knock Off is especially bad news when you're now an Ice-type, so keep that in mind. Basically, Eleki is incredibly difficult to get on the field without slow pivoting, and many of the slow pivots in the format share weaknesses with Eleki. There's also the other problem, which is that clicking Tera Blast means you aren't clicking Volt Switch. Tera Blast is rarely KOing, well, anything without substantial chip- the main exceptions are 4x weak Pokemon and bulkless Great Tusk. And in return, pretty much every TB target threatens to OHKO you for choosing to stay in. Hell, you can't do anything meaningful versus Booster Raging Bolt because Thunderclap just instantly kills Terad Eleki lol. Sure, you can chip stuff down and aim to pick them off later with TB, but I don't find that necessarily unfair with the pace of SV. Eleki spamming Volt Switch is extremely telegraphed, and you can kinda often just stay in and punish it for doing so and come out of the situation fairly well-off.
I am a strong supporter of testing Regieleki back in OU. There were a couple of Pinkatour tournaments where it was allowed in OU and it did nothing of value even if it could have used Tera. SV OU needs additional hazard removers in the worst way and it would be nice to confirm again if we banned it in haste (knowing full well metagame needs are not relevant in terms of brokenness, but Great Tusk and Corviknight are your only 1.5 relevant hazard removers right now). It feels similar to how Deoxys-S (also with elite speed) did well in earlier metagames and is now down to UU. I don't see Regieleki on the same scale, but it would not surprise me now that the metagame has settled if it would be acceptable.
To resuspect you have to argue why it would be essential for the health of the metagame. Personally I think it would be unhealthy and frankly, unfun. Yay, unblockable Volt Switches... sounds real nice for the tier...
Let's be honest. The Regieleki thing comes down to Tera Blast. Without Tera Blast, I agree that it would probably be a positive presence for the tier. But the current state is that Tera Blast could get rid of most of its checks. That's clearly unhealthy at 200 base speed with an ability boosting its Electric STAB.
If any of you really think Regieleki would be a positive presence for the tier, you'll want to direct your efforts towards Tera Blast first.
If any of you really think Regieleki would be a positive presence for the tier, you'll want to direct your efforts towards Tera Blast first.
Last edited:
Funny/sad how Palossand would have a niche, but is brutally overwhelmed by all 4 threats on your ban wishlist in your Signature.
But yeah, no business for Eleki while Tera Blast is here imo
252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Ice Regieleki: 255-301 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Black Glasses Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 270-318 (89.7 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderclap vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Ice Regieleki: 292-345 (97 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
132 SpA Iron Moth Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Regieleki: 261-307 (86.7 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 282-333 (93.6 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Iron Boulder Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 358-422 (118.9 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 306-361 (101.6 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 510-602 (169.4 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki in Grassy Terrain: 327-385 (108.6 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
220 Atk Roaring Moon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 388-458 (128.9 - 152.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
All of the above Pokemon outspeed modest Eleki. Timid Eleki only picks up Iron Valiant, Iron Moth and Iron Treads in the speed tiers. The reality is, Regieleki just isn't that fast in gen 9.
That doesn't look that hard to offensively check to me. For the low percentages, Eleki can't ohko any of them in return, Tera Blast Ice doesn't ohko pre-tera Dragonite through multiscale.
Also if you tera ice, mach punch, bullet punch and vacuum wave all ohko you.
For defensive checks the post above highlighted those. The 4hko on Ting-Lu is hilarious. The claim was that it can't be offensively checked. Also the Kingambit calc is with zero allies fainted, so it only goes up from there.
I know the claim is that a slow pivot will give it infinite free Volt switches. If you are an offense team that can't set up on a slow pivot, you aren't an offense team.
Lastly, you have to run (and keep) your boots. If you try to do specs, every single above option outspeeds and ohkos with stealth rock.
252+ Atk Black Glasses Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 270-318 (89.7 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Thunderclap vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Ice Regieleki: 292-345 (97 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
132 SpA Iron Moth Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Regieleki: 261-307 (86.7 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 282-333 (93.6 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Iron Boulder Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 358-422 (118.9 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 306-361 (101.6 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 510-602 (169.4 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki in Grassy Terrain: 327-385 (108.6 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
220 Atk Roaring Moon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 388-458 (128.9 - 152.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
All of the above Pokemon outspeed modest Eleki. Timid Eleki only picks up Iron Valiant, Iron Moth and Iron Treads in the speed tiers. The reality is, Regieleki just isn't that fast in gen 9.
That doesn't look that hard to offensively check to me. For the low percentages, Eleki can't ohko any of them in return, Tera Blast Ice doesn't ohko pre-tera Dragonite through multiscale.
Also if you tera ice, mach punch, bullet punch and vacuum wave all ohko you.
For defensive checks the post above highlighted those. The 4hko on Ting-Lu is hilarious. The claim was that it can't be offensively checked. Also the Kingambit calc is with zero allies fainted, so it only goes up from there.
I know the claim is that a slow pivot will give it infinite free Volt switches. If you are an offense team that can't set up on a slow pivot, you aren't an offense team.
Lastly, you have to run (and keep) your boots. If you try to do specs, every single above option outspeeds and ohkos with stealth rock.
Iron Treads is mostly a lead, and thus realistically isn’t going to be boosted or even around to check it. Moth usage is way down with Ting-Lu dominance among other things (and you’re assuming Modest which it doesn’t need?), Boulder isn’t relevant, Rilla is garbage and almost completely non existent these days, and Meowscarada is similarly mediocre (and barely exists). Valiant loses to Timid, and Roaring Moon is only faster if its speed boosting energy (lol). So the only stuff that’s truly reliable among this list is… priority.
Doesn’t OHKO? Oops volt switched out. And unless you pack priority you can’t punish it for doing so while you have to content with hazard pressure from the Eleki side. Also it’s really goofy to claim that Eleki “isn’t that fast” when it outruns 99% of the game not factoring really specific cases.
Also the hazard weakness with non HDB sets applied last time it was around. Wasn’t acceptable then why should it be now?
Once again I’m seriously genuinely asking. Why does the topic of retesting Pokémon down from Ubers keep coming back up when we already have a laundry list of huge threats to account for as is?
Because lots of people liked Smogons original vision of only banning a Pokemon if it is broken. Banning Pokemon to sculpt a metagame blows.
It WAS broken and realistically is, at worst, very warping and unhealthy. Also “lots of people”? Please bring sources instead of vague statements. No one is “banning Pokémon to sculpt a metagame”.