furthering your point, isn't mola just setup fodder for the gigachad cloak palafin set? and who even uses serperior anymore? those two additions to the list just seem kinda weird to me
water garg loses to taunt covert cloak fin (increasingly common set). plus, palafin forcing teras to deal with it is pretty bad, as that is extremely exploitable on fin teams. pult is straight up the only splashable fin counter.
palafin runs cloak now, mola isn't doing shit. helmet dozo is ass on most stalls. I'm getting this from some of the best stall players. cha does win though, but at the cost of most of its hp.
Raging Bolt. Also cloak = no lefties which makes it easier to beat with other stuff
losing lefties is a small price to pay for beating garg and mola, which otherwise would be some of its best counters. raging bolt is a fair point but doesn't fit on everything.
Between dozo + pex/alo/sinist/apple i think stall should be fine unless they run into some big stall matchup fish set. Band might be an issue for stall if it teras but also the lack of longevity is pretty bad
this is kind of just how stall works though, it uses pokemon with extremely specific sets of traits to compress utility as much as possible while responding to meta threats, regardless of whether these pokemon have a niche on non-stall teams. Tentacruel has rapid spin, knock off, and a good Palafin matchup. It also removes tspikes on entry. Talonflame has defog, flame body, wisp, and a good Ghold matchup. Clodsire has unaware, amnesia, hazards, a good Ghold matchup, and had a good Arch matchup. Quagsire, Sinistcha, Muk, Hydrapple, Vileplume, etc. The configurations of common stall teams change as the threats they respond to change and that isn't inherently a bad thing. Toxapex, Clod, Mola, Clef these are all mons that have ebbed and flowed to respond to the meta. It's too early to say whether Palafin unreasonably boxes in stall builds but this logic is not immediately sound
Yeah, because it's pure overkill to use the band set. Why bring a nuke to the archery range?
Me when a very predictable, passive mon loses to a powerful wallbreaker that runs taunt:
Im so tired of reading about stall mu vs Palafin, i have a great set for the best stall players:
Dozo only loses to Palafin when its CB on rain teams (the viability of which is questionable outside of its MU against stall), or BU + Taunt, a set that is honestly really mid against most non-stall teams. Palafin is sacrificing so much to run it
i'm not in stallcord but i've been trying to find a use for tentacruel for ages because i feel like there has to be some sort of role-compression potential there, it's got knock and spin and flip turn and it outspeeds tusk and has really good special bulk, i refuse to believe this is the unmon that the usage stats say it is. so i'm happy about this new state of affairs leading to advancement in the realm of tentacruel tech
both 'cruels were very underrated spinners imo. I used both an AV set on ground 'cruel and then balloon on K.Cruel and they were excellent. Weren't entirely useless into Tusk/Lando or Ghold due to knock. Unfortunately just a little too frail against some mons to stand out but I hope K.Cruel carves out a niche due to Palafin at least
this is from the suspect thread but it's got me thinking. i wonder if something like eject pack cc would work at all on an acrobatics set. it effectively lets you pivot out on turn 1 without needing to spend a moveslot on flip turn, and even though base palafin has a piss attack stat it can still do an ok amount to a waterpon that's coming in to block the flip turn they think you're clicking. it also lets you effectively get hero form immediately against lando-t leads (even though nobody's leading anything but palafin right now lmao). am i cooking or did i burn the pan?
That's not what I was arguing though? I didn't make a claim about whether Palafin is better than those two. I'm saying Banded Palafin has to play the same guessing game that choice Wake and Skewda have to play: is Ogerpon switching in this turn? Of course, not every team has an Ogerpon but the choice lock is very annoying for it even without the chance that you lock into a move that literally does negative damage to Ogerpon. Great, you clicked Wave Crash and killed something. Unfortunately now Raging Bolt is coming out to click Calm Mind and sweep your dumbass. Or Palafin revenge kills a Darkrai at 70 with Jet Punch. That's cool, but now Dragonite is coming out to claim its free DD. Band is definitely really scary but it's not without its consequences.
252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 290-342 (96.3 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Raging Bolt: 203-239 (51.9 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is definetely something that will happen, but realistically, pala's teammates will have options. Like corv, which also helps in the hazard clearing department. Honestly, the double removal teams would be pretty great with CB pala, as they can generate a lot of turns.
When your dealing such insane damage, those consequences are worth it. People still use choice specs walking wake despite the move lock being annoying at times, except pala has priority.
I'm not exactly familiar with Volcanion's game, what is Heatran gonna do to it if the lava toad moves first vs second? Wouldn't Steam Eruption still chunk Heatran assuming it doesn't burn its tera?
To avoid it getting up stealth rocks or chunking it with an earth power was my reasoning; but honestly more SpA is almost certainly better. I was running it on a semi-stall that hasn't really needed the extra power yet.
+1 252+ Atk Wellspring Mask Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera Power Whip vs. 120 HP / 248 Def Volcanion: 255-301 (77 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
