Shallowness, Superficiality and Female Hypocracy.

[Hipmonlee]

From an evolutionary perspective it makes sense that men would be more shallow than women. Men just want to screw women and have them raise babies, so they are really only interested in the genes of the women. While women want men that will stick around and help them raise babies, so they kinda are more interested in being sure that he isnt a total jerkoff..

Have a nice day.

 

[Wobby]

Hipmonlee: Well if we are talking the regular 30-year-old woman than yeah I guess that is true. But the average college girl would want a guy to stick around?? Likewise, some women are just looking for a one night stand and some guys are looking for deep, emotional relationships. It really doesn't depend on genes even though they might provide some explanation for it. I would say it depends on the culture around the boy or girl that makes them extra shallow or the opposite.

Atticus: So is everybody that goes to the gym to try to get a better looking body shallow?

Someone please tell me what shallow is in this topic (not that I don't know, but everybody seems to be working off of a different idea of what shallow means) and then things will clear up I guess. Since "shallow" apparently means that the person is looking for a sexy man/woman to have sex with, I don't really see why everyone isn't shallow then. I guess most people will be doing it, so of course! They are shallow!

 

[TaiCrunch]

@Wobby: not at all. but there are people that obsess over how they look because that's what they think the other gender wants.

basically, 'shallow' means taking one feature and basing an entire set of standards around it. it doesn't even have to be a physical thing, necessarily.

 

[Articuno64]

i see shallowness as having very simple, short-sighted and/or narrow-minded motivations for your actions. the opposite would be depth, having more thoughtful and complex motivations.

i don't think shallowness has any relation to gender. i could argue either way (men being more shallow or women being more shallow) just by looking at a subset of people that i know.

 

[Hipmonlee]

I dont think it should matter Wobby, people are programmed to seek these things in a mate.

I am not saying that all men are more superficial than all women, but that in the general case they probably are. There are all sorts of reason any given person might come across as being particularly shallow, but I think there probably will be a stronger bias towards it in men.

Have a nice day.

 

[Lexite]

From an evolutionary perspective it makes sense that men would be more shallow than women. Men just want to screw women and have them raise babies, so they are really only interested in the genes of the women. While women want men that will stick around and help them raise babies, so they kinda are more interested in being sure that he isnt a total jerkoff..

Have a nice day.

Actually Hipmonlee, from an evolutionary perspective it would be the other way around with the women being more shallow then the men. The males just want to imprint their genes, it is the females that are the ones the choose the males. In many species, it is the male that has to show off for the female and the female that decides weather the male is worthy or not. So it is the females that are more critical and more judgmental.The male does not care who he gives his genes too, he just wants to get it done.

 

[TaiCrunch]

seems like not much has changed in a couple million years.

 

[Articuno64]

Actually Hipmonlee, from an evolutionary perspective it would be the other way around with the women being more shallow then the men. The males just want to imprint their genes, it is the females that are the ones the choose the males. In many species, it is the male that has to show off for the female and the female that decides weather the male is worthy or not. So it is the females that are more critical and more judgmental.The male does not care who he gives his genes too, he just wants to get it done.

you're right, except being more critical is actually more characteristic of being deep rather than shallow

EDIT: it seems like there's a misconception that shallow = caring about looks. caring ONLY about looks is shallow, but caring about nothing at all is the most shallow.

 

[Anti]

Most models won't get a contract until they are at least 5'9. If they have a chest it's fake, they look like skeletons, and they weigh as much as 12 year old boys. It's rather disgusting actually.

you don't have a damn clue

 

[Deck Knight]

you don't have a damn clue

And you don't have a Shift Key, apparently.

Do go on. There is an unlimited supply of anorexic waifs out there who wanted to emulate an impossible standard of beauty to back me up.

 

[Goodbar]

EDIT: it seems like there's a misconception that shallow = caring about looks. caring ONLY about looks is shallow, but caring about nothing at all is the most shallow.

This seems true to me. There is a sexual side to love, wouldn't that be what mainly separates a partnership from a friendship? People usually appear more beautiful as you get to know them but some people have enough sexual discrimination to find someone unattractive regardless of how good a relationship they have. And if you can't find a partner sexually appealing, it'd be hard to maintain that kind of a relationship... It's not really superficial to care about looks in a partner but if that's all you're looking for then I suppose it would be (though it'd be more stupid than superficial).

 

[Bam]

No I think that Anti was just agreeing with you, even saying that you have no idea how hard it can really be (since he's done it iirc).

Anti, it's been too long.

 

[Hamstern]

From an evolutionary perspective it makes sense that men would be more shallow than women. Men just want to screw women and have them raise babies, so they are really only interested in the genes of the women. While women want men that will stick around and help them raise babies, so they kinda are more interested in being sure that he isnt a total jerkoff..

Have a nice day.

I don't agree with that. Shouldn't the women be more concern about the genes (=looks?) since we cannot reproduce as much as men can? Not to mention it takes much more effort to have sex + carry a baby, giving birth to it and take care for it x years instead of only having sex?

Anyway, when it comes to one night stands I think girls are much more shallow than men because we can be, haha :P Really, its so much easier to get sex if you're a girl ^^

 

[mf]

I don't agree with that. Shouldn't the women be more concern about the genes (=looks?) since we cannot reproduce as much as men can? Not to mention it takes much more effort to have sex + carry a baby, giving birth to it and take care for it x years instead of only having sex?

Evolutionary theories of male-female attraction argue otherwise. Historically women would be attracted to men with wealth and power over an attractive physique because they would be seeking for them and their children to be looked after - much easier for a male with power. Of course, a fit physique is desirable too, but is practically unnecessary if wealth+power are present.

Men are more physically attracted to women because their primary concern was healthy offspring. Full breasts meant lots of milk, wide 'child-bearing' hips explain themselves, a high level of general fitness decreases the chances of birth complications.

 

[Bam]

Back in the day (we're talking about when all this "evolutionary development" was occurring), physical size and strength determined wealth and power. Even today, the better looking people usually get higher up on the ladder, have more opportunities, etc - just look at actors, singers, sports celebrities, and models. So in a way, physical fitness and characteristics are correlated with the wealth and power.

edit: I don't really find any purpose in arguing which of the two genders is more shallow, it's really very trivial. On need only, men only want to pass on their genes (reproduce) and women only want to mother and nurse children (reproduce). Both cases are shallow by the definition being used in this thread.

 

[akuchi]

Really, because I'm a woman and I certainly don't want to mother or nurse. Generalisations, people, honestly.

 

[mf]

akuchi I thought we already established that you are a girl not a woman???

in all seriousness though I think this thread is obviously all about generalisations - this behaviour isn't exhibited by everyone, just the majority.

 

[Deck Knight]

No I think that Anti was just agreeing with you, even saying that you have no idea how hard it can really be (since he's done it iirc).

Anti, it's been too long.

If this is the case then I apologize to Anti.

Needless to say my experience with Quote + one-line responses is that they are worthless trolls, and on the internet "you don't have a damn clue" can be interpreted several ways, many of them negative.

"You don't even know..." would have been a better way to say it. It's still vague, but the structure lends itself more to agreeableness. Usually saying someone has no clue is an insult.

 

[Altmer]

I agree with DM and akuchi.

As per usual.

And I'll also say that me and my current love are together out of personal reasons and not because she's hot.

 

[Oddish On Fire]

From an evolutionary perspective it makes sense that men would be more shallow than women. Men just want to screw women and have them raise babies, so they are really only interested in the genes of the women. While women want men that will stick around and help them raise babies, so they kinda are more interested in being sure that he isnt a total jerkoff..

Have a nice day.

I think this argument is very flawed. If anything, it would be the opposite. Men can reproduce at much faster rates then women, whereas women can only have a child every 10 months. Therefore, men can have rampant sex, produce multiple offspring, and have a higher likelihood of the offspring having good genes. Quanity > Quality in reproduction because quanity provides quality. Women look for genetic traits in men, as shown by the animal kingdom. The alpha male lion gets all of the women, because his traits are most desired for the offspring of the women. In fact, to populate the world, it only takes one man and a harem of women.

 

[Hipmonlee]

I dont see what that has to do with shallowness..

Look at it this way: Women may only have one shot at reproduction, therefore they will be very discerning about who they select to reproduce with, IE they will look very deeply at their selection. Yes they will consider genetic criteria, but they also will consider many other criteria, because they want to get it right. Men can have any number of offspring so it doesnt matter if they get it wrong, so they can afford to be shallow..

Have a nice day.

 

[Oddish On Fire]

Men can have any number of offspring so it doesnt matter if they get it wrong, so they can afford to be shallow..

The part of your sentence before the comma is the exact opposite of what it says afterwards. "Men can have any number of offspring so it doesn't matter if they get it wrong" There, you are saying that men are NOT shallow because they can have so many offspring that selection < reproduction. Yet, then you say "so they can afford to be shallow.."

...I'm confused?

Women may only have one shot at reproduction, therefore they will be very discerning about who they select to reproduce with

That is exactly my argument. Since women take to long so long to reproduce, they are shallow, because it is genetically beneficial to be shallow. They will consider genes more so than a male would. A male would see a beautiful woman and say "That is a woman. I want to make babies with her." Then, he would see and uglier woman and say "That is a woman. I want to make babies with her." (speaking from experience because I'm a male) This is the reason that the star football players in highschool occasionally hook up with that one overweight chick. We, as men, are built genetically to have as much sex as possible since we can help create as many babies as time allows.

 

[Hipmonlee]

No for men it will be a shallow decision, it will be "these are the women I could have reproduce with, I need to pick one to have sex with right now, it doesnt really matter if I get it wrong so I will pick based on looks". That is being shallow.

For women it will be "these are the men I could reproduce with, I may only have once chance, so I will have to consider many variables before making a final decision". That is being deep.

Have a nice day.

 

[Oddish On Fire]

Ahhhh. I see the difference in our opinions. You think that men care more about looks when searching for sex, whereas I believe men are just looking for sex in general, and though a bias towards looks exists, it is nothing compared to the bias presented by women. It's just like big goverment vs. small goverment. No one is really right or wrong.

 

[unceunce]

I think it's about even for both genders, really only changing with age. Up until age ~30ish both men and women are extremely shallow (oh there's a good looking guy/girl i'm interested in her not the average looking but intelligent and funny etc) and as they mature they start to look for mates with a different set of standards. Instead of relationships being mostly physical, people start to seek relationships where they can raise a child etc. Just my thoughts