Resource RBY Simple Questions & Simple Answers Thread

Pemderp63 said:
I'm a brand new RBY player that is interested in learning the UU tier. What are effective counters against Hypno and how do you use them?
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This is a difficult question because the short answer is that nothing likes a TWave, and all the grounds are frail to Psychic
The way you beat Hypno is (1) you should have your own to mirror it, (2) it can only heal through Rest which is clunky and easily punishable with strong attackers eg. Persian, Kangaskhan, Dugtrio (who's also neat for switching into TWave occasionally), Articuno, and others; (3) if you have a Kadabra and you are willing to have it paralyzed you can trade TWaves and Recover stall him for ages. In a pinch Vaporeon doesn't mind TWave too much and its Surf outdamages and 4HKOs Hypno, but it's slower and a Spc drop from Psychic will ruin you so it's not great

The fundamental flaw with Hypno is that it's slow and it can't heal easily; just try to trade blows with it effectively and minimize the amount of Paralysis it gets to spread. Once it's forced to Rest, try to predict it and use it as an opportunity to get a strong attacker in, eg. Persian, who KOs with Slashes before it can wake up and is generally a nightmare to switch into.
 
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So, I was wondering why there's only fifteen sample teams.

I feel like there should be way more because the meta of rby does evolve just very slowly so it's not like a team someone made 3 years ago is suddenly unviable or anything like that.

I may be wrong on this next point, but don't these teams come from spl and other high-level tournaments so there would be nearly infinite teams to pick from to put onto the sample teams thread why these fifteen and more importantly why nothing else?

Also, the categories are really weird specifically sing chansey teams, the whole team is summed up by one move on one Pokémon.

Another thing is exeggutor teams and jynx are separated implying that using both on the same team is not viable which isn't true at all and I don't need to go into detail and if nobody has made a good jynx + eggy team then I would be completely floored.

Now one reason I could see with only having a small pool of sample teams to choose from is if they had replays of the teams to see how they're usually played and how you can overcome the teams struggles and bad matchups but nope we just get the teams no demonstrations.

One thing I kind of get but still dislike is why are there no teams including uu or below pokemon that have a niche in ou except articuno because that team is really freaking cool.

I get not including these teams because you want these team to be easy to use for new players, but it still feels wrong that we don't have any teams the c+ and c tiers especially moltres persian and victreebel because we can all agree these pokemon are part of the meta and aren't gimmicks merely more specific and way harder to play in certain matchups.

The next part of this is my opinion and I would do if I were running this, and I fully expect nothing to happen because I know it's not some small change, I just think it's interesting to talk about.

If I were running this, I would include way more teams and sort them by viability (idk how viability would be determined in this scenario because it's not that simple) and include a short description of what the team does as well as some replays from spl or whatever.

I would make sure all pokemon on the viability ranking besides E tier had teams because if there on the viability ranking, they're viable however slight.

One last closing statement why is there no exeggutor lead teams I know that's not too common but it's very surprising that there's not even one.
 
Toxin boost said:
So, I was wondering why there's only fifteen sample teams.

I feel like there should be way more because the meta of rby does evolve just very slowly so it's not like a team someone made 3 years ago is suddenly unviable or anything like that.

I may be wrong on this next point, but don't these teams come from spl and other high-level tournaments so there would be nearly infinite teams to pick from to put onto the sample teams thread why these fifteen and more importantly why nothing else?

Also, the categories are really weird specifically sing chansey teams, the whole team is summed up by one move on one Pokémon.

Another thing is exeggutor teams and jynx are separated implying that using both on the same team is not viable which isn't true at all and I don't need to go into detail and if nobody has made a good jynx + eggy team then I would be completely floored.

Now one reason I could see with only having a small pool of sample teams to choose from is if they had replays of the teams to see how they're usually played and how you can overcome the teams struggles and bad matchups but nope we just get the teams no demonstrations.

One thing I kind of get but still dislike is why are there no teams including uu or below pokemon that have a niche in ou except articuno because that team is really freaking cool.

I get not including these teams because you want these team to be easy to use for new players, but it still feels wrong that we don't have any teams the c+ and c tiers especially moltres persian and victreebel because we can all agree these pokemon are part of the meta and aren't gimmicks merely more specific and way harder to play in certain matchups.

The next part of this is my opinion and I would do if I were running this, and I fully expect nothing to happen because I know it's not some small change, I just think it's interesting to talk about.

If I were running this, I would include way more teams and sort them by viability (idk how viability would be determined in this scenario because it's not that simple) and include a short description of what the team does as well as some replays from spl or whatever.

I would make sure all pokemon on the viability ranking besides E tier had teams because if there on the viability ranking, they're viable however slight.

One last closing statement why is there no exeggutor lead teams I know that's not too common but it's very surprising that there's not even one.
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pay me good money for the actual work that you're demanding and i will do it

teams made 3 years ago are indeed 95% unviable today at a top level, a resource of the level you suggest here would take a ton of effort to make and even more effort to maintain. most of the teams i build have a shelf life of about 6 months to 1 year before they need to be updated, and the more niche they get, the shorter that timeframe gets, because niche stuff is built around countering dominant meta trends in particular

sample teams are meant for new players to grab something extremely solid that they can use to play the game; they are not meant to be a full picture of what the metagame looks like at any given point, and the things you're asking for here would take a genuinely colossal amount of effort
 
Hi all,

First post for me. I've been playing a Starmie + Cloyster + Jolteon team and seem to be messing up some of the common openings, so wanted to check in to make sure I have the details correct.

versus Alakazam or Starmie, go to Chansey and prepare to click Sing. I'm not sure what to do if they pivot to Chansey too - I have been going back to Starmie to absorb sleep, thoughts?

versus Gengar and Jynx, fire off an attack with Starmie and get some damage. Starmie is sacrificed as sleep-fodder after which I will go to Snorlax to apply pressure (its Earthquake and Body Slam). Is this correct? My understanding is clicking Thunder Wave is a mistake as whatever you hit will then sleep-block your Chansey (who does very little to either with Ice Beam).

versus Exeggutor I'm stumped - neither Psychic or Thunder Bolt do much damage, so I don't know what to do here. I've been trying to sleep-sac Starmie, but the Exeggutor often then is too threatening for Chansey, so I am just very behind from the start.

Any and all input greatly appreciated!
 
zemanjaski said:
Hi all,

First post for me. I've been playing a Starmie + Cloyster + Jolteon team and seem to be messing up some of the common openings, so wanted to check in to make sure I have the details correct.

versus Alakazam or Starmie, go to Chansey and prepare to click Sing. I'm not sure what to do if they pivot to Chansey too - I have been going back to Starmie to absorb sleep, thoughts?
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this is correct! an alternative vs Starmie is turn 1 Thunderbolt, that way you don't need to switch back vs Chansey and you can get a little more damage with Psychic before having to take the Sing, while still being covered if enemy Starmie stays; but the upside is pretty marginal, this is entirely fine

versus Gengar and Jynx, fire off an attack with Starmie and get some damage. Starmie is sacrificed as sleep-fodder after which I will go to Snorlax to apply pressure (its Earthquake and Body Slam). Is this correct? My understanding is clicking Thunder Wave is a mistake as whatever you hit will then sleep-block your Chansey (who does very little to either with Ice Beam).
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Hard Snorlax on unparalyzed Jynx is no good; crit Blizzard into Blizzard will kill, and in general Snorlax just takes a bit too much damage. Against Jynx, as ugly as it is, you should just go Chansey to try and Sing it before she freezes you. An unconventional but probably okay line vs Jynx is going Jolteon on the Lovely Kiss, then back to Starmie to actually beat Jynx a bit more comfortably. This will also make you way better if you are playing vs JynxMieDon, which is one of the more common Jynx structures, though it could leave you a little exposed to JynxZap or JynxJolt - but given that they are way less common, I think it'd be worth it

versus Exeggutor I'm stumped - neither Psychic or Thunder Bolt do much damage, so I don't know what to do here. I've been trying to sleep-sac Starmie, but the Exeggutor often then is too threatening for Chansey, so I am just very behind from the start.

Any and all input greatly appreciated!
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You can try sleepsacking Cloy or Jolt then going back to Starmie here as well, but I think you should be fine just TWaving the Exeggutor T1 and just staying in with Starmie as paralyzed Egg can't really kill you before you wake. If they switch out, you've relieved the pressure of having to switch into Exeggutor for a bit longer; if they stay, your end goal is probably getting a Psychic drop so that Snorlax or Cloyster can switch in safely without taking much from Psychic. Of course you can also just go Chansey immediately, but then you then have to play mindgames against its Explosion and you risk a massive disadvantage if it lands on your Chansey.
 
Hey so I guess I did go a bit overboard on that last post my bad I didn't want to come off as ungrateful or rude and the second half of my post wasn't really necessary.

Anyways I just wanted a clear answer on why those fifteen teams were picked like what the criteria was and why no other teams were chosen.
 
Generally safer in the end game, but tauros is your best pokemon, any time you can bring it out safely is a good time to do so.

So, for revenge killing, or against a sleeping enemy, your primary switch should be to Tauros, no matter what stage of the battle.
 
In the most recent SPL, week 9 game 2, Chuva played a team consisting of Gengar, Cloyster, the big 3 Normals and 1 Unknown. This structure was seen earlier in the same SPL, with Exeggutor as the final Pokemon, several times against Nails actually. However, in the previous outings, Gengar had Night Shade and the Chansey were Bolt/Beam. In Chuva's case, the Gengar was Psychic and the Chansey was Sing, which leads me to believe the final Pokemon was not an Exeggutor. Snorlax was Slam, Reflect, EQ and Rest if it matters, but this seems to be a common set for Chuva.

I'm interested on your thoughts as to what the final Pokemon was. Interestingly, Tauros was the switch in against a sleeping Starmie (turn 26), so I don't think the last was a Zapdos (with Chansey and enemy Exeggutor already paralyzed, they will take huge damage from Drill Peck) but may have been a Jolteon, given the opposing team had both Exeggutor and Rhydon, this would have been very hard to bring in and would also explain the aggressive play with Tauros throughout the middlegame - get everything low now and allow Jolteon to clean up later.

Link to the replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-611497

Thanks in advance!
 
zemanjaski said:
In the most recent SPL, week 9 game 2, Chuva played a team consisting of Gengar, Cloyster, the big 3 Normals and 1 Unknown. This structure was seen earlier in the same SPL, with Exeggutor as the final Pokemon, several times against Nails actually. However, in the previous outings, Gengar had Night Shade and the Chansey were Bolt/Beam. In Chuva's case, the Gengar was Psychic and the Chansey was Sing, which leads me to believe the final Pokemon was not an Exeggutor. Snorlax was Slam, Reflect, EQ and Rest if it matters, but this seems to be a common set for Chuva.

I'm interested on your thoughts as to what the final Pokemon was. Interestingly, Tauros was the switch in against a sleeping Starmie (turn 26), so I don't think the last was a Zapdos (with Chansey and enemy Exeggutor already paralyzed, they will take huge damage from Drill Peck) but may have been a Jolteon, given the opposing team had both Exeggutor and Rhydon, this would have been very hard to bring in and would also explain the aggressive play with Tauros throughout the middlegame - get everything low now and allow Jolteon to clean up later.

Link to the replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-611497

Thanks in advance!
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This looks like either an electric or Alakazam to me. Tauros on Turn 26 doesn't really rule out Zapdos, as a Rhydon here is very possible for ziloXX and so revealing it early wouldn't be too wise when Tauros is available and a much safer method of getting some progress here. Alakazam should be possible as something that does decent against Zapdos, and it would give some defensive stability / backup in case Chansey is taken down. Jolt or Zap also extremely possible. Rhydon I suppose is also plausible but the team would be very soft to Psychics then, with Chansey holding the fort for the entire team - that sort of team would get blown away by Exeggutor taking out Chansey + second Psychic in the back. It's not completely unreasonable, but it is much less likely than Zam or electrics
 
Is Gengar primarily an anti-Jynx choice in the Lead spot? I appreciate Gengar enjoys some defensive utility with switching into Body Slam but it seems generally unreliable and weaker (to me at least) when compared to the other common Leads (Starmie, Alakazam and Jynx). Following this line of thinking, is Jynx the de facto best Lead, but for some amount of Lead Gengar keeping it in check?

Thanks,
 
zemanjaski said:
Is Gengar primarily an anti-Jynx choice in the Lead spot? I appreciate Gengar enjoys some defensive utility with switching into Body Slam but it seems generally unreliable and weaker (to me at least) when compared to the other common Leads (Starmie, Alakazam and Jynx). Following this line of thinking, is Jynx the de facto best Lead, but for some amount of Lead Gengar keeping it in check?

Thanks,
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Yes gengar main purpose as a lead is to anti lead Jynx which gives you the option to boom it if you have a secondary sleeper and know your opponent doesn't run jynx-eggy or to just go for hypnosis. The gengar matchup into zam is indeed bad and you do have to run t1, it's a bit trickier into starmie since you do have to fear psychic and twave however you also have odds of ohkoing it with a Crit tbolt. Once you've slept something gar still has some great defensive utility walling a lax that doesn't run eq and allowing for Tauros mind games especially if you have an egg, it also walls stuff like tbolt Tauros which is quite valuable.
Now on to your second point, Jynx is absolutely not the best de facto lead and actually has a historical winrate below 50%. Jynx is a very volatile lead which can win you the game on the spot by sleeping something and freezing the switch in or straight up be a liability by either getting t1 crit by surfmie or being forced to rest without having managed to sleep something by a stoss zam for instance. Furthermore it's extremely hard to reliably wake up a Jynx vs a good player as it gives free Tauros switch ins and you're forfeiting momentum. What's more it can be difficult to sleep fodder Jynx into eggy because it is easily pressured by double edge or hyper beam for instance. Now that's not to say that Jynx is bad, it's especially good into mono ice Chansey, perma walling it and making it so you don't have to risk a freeze at least early on.
 
venusaur has better physical bulk, also is slightly faster.
doesnt matter anymore tho as neither should be used seriously now that sleep is banned (edit: tbc, sleep is banned in uu)
 
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What are good pokemon to pair with Machamp? I'm really interested in using it, i've discussed it a lot with Maya and have beaten FOMG using it, so i'm not convinced it's the most horrible thing you can add
 
Bug Maniac Aydon said:
What are good pokemon to pair with Machamp? I'm really interested in using it, i've discussed it a lot with Maya and have beaten FOMG using it, so i'm not convinced it's the most horrible thing you can add
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Interesting, if you're using it chances are that you know better than anyone else. It would be great if you could share your teams. I don't even know what the moveset should be: Low Kick and Submission are both important IMO, maybe Submission can be dropped for Earthquake.

Machamp doesn't look like the most unviable thing because it has many good matchups: super-effective moves against Cloyster, Tauros, Snorlax, Chansey and Rhydon. Nothing else does the same exact thing, but Victreebel has similar matchups. Machamp can hit Gengar though.
Machamp is extremely complicated to fit: it can't use Rest and it isn't fast enough to be a sweeper (nor a revenge killer), but it sure looks like a sweeper who hits and runs. It doesn't force Reflect Snorlax out and the team needs special attacks to deal with it, this is where I say that Victreebel is a pick that basically outclasses Machamp.
Zapdos and Psychic types are a terrible sight.

So, I'd start with Reflect Chansey and Starmie for paralysis support and because they counter psychic types. Unstatused Reflect Chansey can also switch into Snorlax.
I'd follow with Snorlax (ideally some Selfdestruct variant, possibly RestBoom) who can spread status and/or trade for Zapdos or anything else.
Exeggutor fits the plan (Exploding on specific targets, countering psychic types, forcing Snorlax and spreading paralysis).
Not very creative at all, they are just some of the best pokemon in the game.
Sleepers are frail and anti-leads can't click Thunder Wave on turn1, so Tauros is my anti-lead.

Tauros/Chansey/Starmie/Snorlax/Exeggutor/Machamp.
 
Bug Maniac Aydon said:
What are good pokemon to pair with Machamp? I'm really interested in using it, i've discussed it a lot with Maya and have beaten FOMG using it, so i'm not convinced it's the most horrible thing you can add
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Are we talking OU? You can use leer on a predicted psychic type switch in like Zam and blast it with Earthquake/Hyper Beam. And I think the consensus is that Low Kick>Submission because of the flinch on paralysed normals.

Champ needs protecting from special attacks so you'll need monsters who can switch into those. It's hard to fit all that on a team plus Champ, Tauros, Lax. And I don't think a team really needs more than 2x physical attackers anyway. So I usually drop Tauros for Champ (I know Smogon traditionalists will hate this suggestion LOL). If you really want to use a specific Pokemon you have to be willing to think outside the box and just have fun.

marcoasd said:
Tauros/Chansey/Starmie/Snorlax/Exeggutor/Machamp.
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Egg, Starmie, Champ means triple weakness to Zap. I'd consider sticking Joelton on that team to deal with Zap and Starmie, as Champ hates both.

I also have a question:

The kangaskhan smogdex entry suggests that "Mega Kick is a valid option for 2HKOing...Starmie, and Tauros." That seems unlikely, am I missing something?
 
Party B0y said:
Are we talking OU? You can use leer on a predicted psychic type switch in like Zam and blast it with Earthquake/Hyper Beam. And I think the consensus is that Low Kick>Submission because of the flinch on paralysed normals.

Champ needs protecting from special attacks so you'll need monsters who can switch into those. It's hard to fit all that on a team plus Champ, Tauros, Lax. And I don't think a team really needs more than 2x physical attackers anyway. So I usually drop Tauros for Champ (I know Smogon traditionalists will hate this suggestion LOL). If you really want to use a specific Pokemon you have to be willing to think outside the box and just have fun.

Egg, Starmie, Champ means triple weakness to Zap. I'd consider sticking Joelton on that team to deal with Zap and Starmie, as Champ hates both.
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Yeah, I considered these things. My reasoning is that if you're using Machamp you are losing a lot of power level so you need to optimize everything else, which means you won't be able to cover all of the matchups defensively.
Triple weakness is bad but everything is fixed in such a way you'll have a way out (with Selfdestruct, Explosion or Reflect Chansey) for what is a nightmare matchup. Tauros is not necessarily going to take the sleep, it depends on how the early game plays out.
Hopefully the team is going to have 2 weaknesses to Zapdos.
I agree with you on wanting to drop Tauros if Machamp is your superstar, so I realized I can just shift Tauros to the lead because it's the most proactive pokemon among the good ones (the top six).
I also agree that you might find more creative builds that work better, but I'm not very impressed with Jolteon at first glance: Rhydon is much better even if it doesn't fit well. Jolteon won't solve many problems because it will switch into Zapdos or Starmie, it will get crippled and it won't fight with them.
Jolteon only works consistently in a defensive team, basically it needs a couple of counters for Snorlax and Tauros (just like Cloyster and ReflectRestBoom Snorlax).

Low Kick + Submission is just like Body Slam + Hyper Beam. Low Kick is arguably better, I agree, but it won't even 3HKO Cloyster. Submission looks very important for finishing the things Machamp is meant to punish.
I don't like Leer on a hit and runner, I think you are just using Body Slam looking for paralysis and HB for the KO. On top of that Machamp is a glaring case of 4MSS.
Leer can help against Reflect Snorlax, if anything.

Party B0y said:
The kangaskhan smogdex entry suggests that "Mega Kick is a valid option for 2HKOing...Starmie, and Tauros." That seems unlikely, am I missing something?
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Mega Kick followed by Hyper Beam enables a 2HKO on Starmie unless extremely low rolls happen, MK won't 2HKO though.
MK+HB can't 2HKO Tauros. MK is definitely a good option but it's not enough to redeem Kangaskhan.
 
I was testing a Machamp team a while back, here's the team: https://pokepast.es/c884af1fd241c20e. Disclaimer- I think I only used it on ladder. Clef was an experiment that performed adequately iirc, but probably needs more testing lol

Basically I think if you're running Champ your best bet is Champ, 3 Normals, Egg and a lead. Egg's boom is really valuable to Champ and you need a Psychic type to help deal with them.

I think the Zap weakness is manageable, since the normals all offer counterplay, Egg has boom and status, which leaves Champ as the only pokemon that totally shits the bed vs Zap (you could run RSlide, but it's a shit option otherwise). You can even run lead Jolt to provide further mitigation, since it at least walls Zap and either beats it or severely limits it if it stays in. It can even wake on it if it's asleep.

I generally disagree with the idea of dropping Tauros. Champ really isn't a substitute, since it can't really revenge kill and is a poor wallbreaker and you're just losing value by dropping Tauros (same applies to a lesser extent to lead Tauros).
 
Is their an upgrade tradebacks, like Lovely Kiss Victreebel, or Counter Sandslash?

emma edit - moved to SQSA
 
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I've played a few games here and there on Showdown, but have never really gotten into competitive Pokmemon beyond that and was thinking of putting a bit more time into it and learning through RBY.

With the sample teams for RBY OU broken down into three categories (Exeggutor, Sing Chansey, and Jynx teams) is there any recommended category for someone new not just to RBY but competitive Pokemon in general to start? Are there any lead options between the four across all the sample teams (Starmie, Alakazam, Gengar, Jynx) that would be best to start with? Or are there no real differences between all those teams when it comes to learning both the generation and Pokemon in general?

I really want to learn how to play a Wrap Dragonite team because the RBY mechanics of wrap sound fun to play with, but should I really avoid trying to start out with more of a niche team because I wouldn't be able to get the hang of things without first learning the game more (by playing more standard with a starter team)?
 
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