Resource RBY Simple Questions & Simple Answers Thread

Ctown6 said:
Do OHKO moves operate off of base speed or total speed? Like if a Snorlax clicks fissure on a paralyzed Chansey, would it work?
Click to expand...
Enigami beat me to it... what he said. I hadn't thought of that and will consider it.
but surfbird made a good point about OHKOs not being worth the dropped coverage on tauros, so just because snorlax could hit things w/para it doesn't mean its instantly game braking.
what would that set look like? snorlax would have to make room and i don't think i would drop anything off of fisslax ironically. Body slam, reflect, rest, fissure maybe? replace the ice beam people already use to try and win stall matchups like reflect snorlax dittos. what if the Chancey has sing? what about other matchups like gengar? it could be good could be bad idk but i guess I'm saying there would still be options for the player on the other end. its not like setting up double team and becoming invincible
 
Last edited:
Koalacance said:
Nah it's not subjective.
Click to expand...

But it totally is. Some things get modded, like counter, and others don't. Someone has to decide, that makes it subjective.

Koalacance said:
Rby is pretty balanced atm and just ban or add something would break the stability we all know.
Click to expand...

I think this is the real issue - fear of change.

emma said:
This is the Simple Questions Simple Answers thread. The simple question has been answered. There is no need to discuss further in this thread; please do not continue a useless discussion.
Click to expand...

You moved this post from the RBY discussion thread. Where are we allowed to discuss this? :)
 
I've played with OHKO moves.

Honestly, they werent that good, although these days with rest lax around they would be a lot more impactful.. I suspect in an OHKO meta rest lax would just not be viable.

But they are completely stupid. You just battle sensibly and then your opponent's rhydon paraslams your eggy and follows it up with a fissure.

One suggestion if you do feel you want to use them though, there used to be an OHKO clause, which basically worked the same as sleep clause. But they are still totally wild and far to unpredictable to be worth playing with, but it's at least better...
 
Party B0y said:
But it totally is. Some things get modded, like counter, and others don't. Someone has to decide, that makes it subjective.
Click to expand...
This is dishonest. The only mod we've added in the past decade and a half is a pseudo-1/256 in the event a game breaking glitch would occur. Sleep and freeze clause were imported from official sources and kept because, well, it wasn't broke, so why fix it?

OHKO moves completely break what I feel makes RBY what it is: it's a very bulky metagame where you have epic head-on collisions that go over multiple turns. You're not seeing stuff drop in one or two hits like in modern games, you're seeing Rhydon live Blizzard, you're seeing Chansey shrug off Submission. That's cool as hell.

I feel like this discussion is pointless, nobody actually wants to deal with a paraslam's chance at killing a Pokemon in one hit. You people moan about getting frozen and couldn't handle Sing Chansey during its meteoric rise, come on. Let's listen to Emma and answer some real questions.
 
As emma said…

emma said:
This is the Simple Questions Simple Answers thread. The simple question has been answered. There is no need to discuss further in this thread; please do not continue a useless discussion.
Click to expand...

We’ve gone on this tangent for long enough in this thread, which is supposed to be for quick questions and answers. If you’d like to have a discussion that might go anywhere…

If you look like to challenge the conventional wisdom that has been in place for as long as I know, perhaps you can send a group DM to the Tiering Administration and RBY Council -- but please put in effort containing relevant examples, calculations, and logic.
Click to expand...

So yeah. I know everyone’s intentions are good but please stop cluttering this thread with discussion about OHKO moves. Thank you.
 
How good is Poliwrath in OU/what is an ideal set? It's D tier but i've used Machamp to pretty decent effect. Apparently Blizzard is pretty necessary. I've been using Rest.

Also, is it weird that I feel I do better on somewhat serious matches (like in roomtours) than on the ladder?
 
Bug Maniac Aydon said:
How good is Poliwrath in OU/what is an ideal set? It's D tier but i've used Machamp to pretty decent effect. Apparently Blizzard is pretty necessary. I've been using Rest.

Also, is it weird that I feel I do better on somewhat serious matches (like in roomtours) than on the ladder?
Click to expand...
Poliwrath is okay in OU since it’s an Amnesia user that sports good matchups against the Big Three (Chansey, Snorlax, Tauros), unlike Slowbro, and this is due to having Submission. The other unique trait is that it has access to Hypnosis, which is something unlike Snorlax and Slowbro. The ideal set you’d run is an Amnesia set:

name: Amnesia
move 1: Amnesia
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Blizzard / Hypnosis
move 4: Hypnosis / Submission / Surf

The reason why it’s ranked there is because its stat total is just mediocre all-around (not a single digit is at or above 100), it’s weak to Psychic (which is bad in a Psychic-dominated meta), and it faces serious competition from the Amnesia slot by Slowbro and Amnesia Lax. Hypnosis, while unique, also is very vulnerable to missing, which makes it dead meat if it gets crit by most strong super effective attacks from Pokemon like Zapdos and Exeggutor.

Machamp is not good in OU since A) it is very slow and is outpaced by most of the meta, and even more reliant on paralysis to outspeed pretty much everything. Sure, being fast as Exeggutor is nice and Low Kick + Paralysis shenanigans is nifty, but once it’s paralyzed, taken damage, or both, Machamp is very easy to revenge kill, and even if you somehow manage to get all the Psychics out of the way (which is difficult because you’re contingent on the foe giving away their Psychics away too early), Rhydon tends to be more rewarding since it has better STABS, defensive utility, and bulk despite slower Speed. Rhydon already is threatening in its own right against most of the meta in its own right.

I think Big Yellow’s video accurately summarizes the pros and cons of Fighting-type Pokemon.

In the ladder, you’ll see a lot of gimmicks being tested out in the lower levels (1000s-1200s, anyone?) mostly because such players don’t have solid fundamentals of the game. More players invested in serious matches have a better understanding, and I think such a mindset applies to most general tiers in all generations.
 
5Dots said:
I think Big Yellow’s video accurately summarizes the pros and cons of Fighting-type Pokemon.
Click to expand...
Ok this has been bothering me for a while, but it isn't a huge deal.

A while back, on his type tier list, he ranked Poison higher than Fighting, and I couldn't get him to switch them. Fighting IS considered better than Poison, right? Poison has the trait of a Toxic immunity, while Fighting gives you the only effective moves against Normal, and a resistance to Rock Slide which can be used maybe, while not being unnecessarily weak to Earthquake as well as Toxic. He even said in his Bug video he never switched them. I know it's dumb, but this really pisses me off and I'd wish he'd change he got damn mind :psyangry:
 
Bug Maniac Aydon said:
How good is Poliwrath in OU/what is an ideal set? It's D tier but i've used Machamp to pretty decent effect. Apparently Blizzard is pretty necessary. I've been using Rest.

Also, is it weird that I feel I do better on somewhat serious matches (like in roomtours) than on the ladder?
Click to expand...
I used it a bunch and I think it's one of the very best D tiers, Amnesia is strong and can break teams if given time, but it needs Hydro Pump to actually get past Starmie/Chansey and the low accuracy sucks. Hypnosis threat can be fun but I've found that it's far too frail to use sleep moves reliably, it's best used as a midgame breaker sort of pokemon. Amnesia HydroPump Surf Blizzard is its best set imo. Not all of these replays showcase Poliwrath's qualities, but they give you a good picture of what playing with Poliwrath can/should look like, what it's good at, what it's bad at, etc

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-595706
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1345934486
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1338125648
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1329915705
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1341098077-55ouuergr4xs8giwy2o2j8aj5k6s30epw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-559974
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-561407

I also trialed Golduck in a similar role but I've found that the lower physical bulk is just awful as it is so much more vulnerable to Tauros revengekills,but if you want there's a few more

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1432749907
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1358073171
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1357526039
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1357524236

I think Poliwrath is too unreliable for high level play, but if played properly it can take games from anybody
 
Amaranth said:
I used it a bunch and I think it's one of the very best D tiers, Amnesia is strong and can break teams if given time, but it needs Hydro Pump to actually get past Starmie/Chansey and the low accuracy sucks. Hypnosis threat can be fun but I've found that it's far too frail to use sleep moves reliably, it's best used as a midgame breaker sort of pokemon. Amnesia HydroPump Surf Blizzard is its best set imo. Not all of these replays showcase Poliwrath's qualities, but they give you a good picture of what playing with Poliwrath can/should look like, what it's good at, what it's bad at, etc

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-595706
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1345934486
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1338125648
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1329915705
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1341098077-55ouuergr4xs8giwy2o2j8aj5k6s30epw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-559974
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-561407

I also trialed Golduck in a similar role but I've found that the lower physical bulk is just awful as it is so much more vulnerable to Tauros revengekills,but if you want there's a few more

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1432749907
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1358073171
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1357526039
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1357524236

I think Poliwrath is too unreliable for high level play, but if played properly it can take games from anybody
Click to expand...
Is rest much of an option? That was my original set, but it seems like it's not recommended. I find it hard to fit also

It doesn't seem awful though, it has 90/95 defense on physical and amnesia to boost special, but slowbro is prob better for that tbh
 
IMO Poliwrath's best trait is its a sleeper that cant be sleepblocked by chansey. So I always like to run hypnosis and submission.

Aside from that it has a few good options, so you can go with amnesia or you can run a counter set. Counter is particularly useful btw, because it is good at forcing normal types to switch. It gives it the ability to take out starmie or eggy if you can get it in in the right circumstances.

[edit] I used it in summer seasonal finals here: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1ou-409937
 
Last edited:
Thanks to the counter mechanics, you can counter the next turn. For example: Team 1’s Gengar explodes, team 2 sends out Chansey next turn and team 1 sends out Alakazam. Team 1 switches to Chansey and team 2 clicks counter and counters Gengar’s explosion from the previous turn.
 
Yeah, the stat limit checks are only applied when a stat is being increased, when it is being decreased they dont get applied.

So basically, when you get your stat changed, your stat is recalculated from its base value (ignoring things like paralysis and burn). If you are raising your stat, this is capped at 999, so anything above that is converted to 999.

But if your stat is being lowered, that cap doesnt apply. AND if the stat is higher than 1023, then the stat rolls over, which basically means your stat will always be modulo 1024. Which means if your stat is calculated as precisely 1024, then your stat is going to end up being 0.
 
Last edited:

Here is a relevant video about what Hipmonlee described in case you want to know more details about how it works.
Two things are worth noting: 1. This glitch is not (yet) implemented in regular RBY on Pokemon Showdown. 2. In Gen 1 Stadium on Pokemon Showdown rollovers happen even without stat drops. In this replay you can see a +4 Slowbro OHKO'ing an opposing +6 Slowbro with Surf (both had default/max stats). I think this is not supposed to happen but am not sure about it.
 
Thanks for your replies Hip and FOMG - I'm relieved this isn't currently simulated on showdown! The smogdex for mewtwo mentions it, which might cause some confusion.
 
What is the correct way to play out a Slowbro 1v1 when both of them use the standard TWave set (Surf+Amnesia+Rest+TWave)? I guess that I should start by spamming all Amnesia PP:s, but then what? What do I do with Surfs/Rests/TWaves to maximize my chances of winning in PP?
 
It's a good idea to hold onto some Amnesia PP unless its a true 1v1.

If you are unparalysed and at full health it allows you to switch out while your opponent rests. They rest, you switch, switch back as they wake, and since you are faster now, you amnesia before they hit you with surf. You can actually burn an extra turn there, but its not completely safe, since you might fp consecutively and die. Also it makes it harder for you to twave your opponent before you rest, which stops them from switching out against you.

Otherwise the order of moves doesnt matter that much. Obviously dont rest until youre damaged. You cant really force your opponent to rest until they are damaged either, so you arent gonna save any pp that way. Once you twave you should mostly be surfing to force them to rest quickly. Then, if youre unpara you can switch out and back.

Think about what moves you want to hold onto at the end. IE one rest and a bunch of surfs.

In a true 1v1 you just burn all your amnesias and twave while your opponent rests. If the pp is close at the end make sure you dont have to twave while your opponent is burning their final rest.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top