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Pet Mod RBY CAP (CAP 3 - Competitive Learnset)

Dragon / Bug

The Dragon type only has one evolution line in RBY. The Ghost type is similar but quite broken; anything added from that would be dangerous, so let's look at Dragon. Dragon as a type is underutilised in RBY even on Dragonite itself. Its one weakness was made a kill button and the resistances were demeaned by the Flying type. It may as well not exist. A type ruined by time constraints and memory limitations.

Due to only having Dragon Rage, Dragon is a purely defensive type in RBY. Therefore, any Pokemon made for it should play into this aspect. I think the best option for this is Dragon / Bug, which adds a Rock weakness but also stonewalls SurfBolt Starmie, as it resists both of its attacks. It even gains a Ground resistance from the Bug typing, which means it can switch into Rhydon, Tauros, and a few others, although not completely safely due to the Ice weakness. This feels very balanced on paper, I like it a lot.

While strong defensively, this Pokemon would lack good STAB (Pin Missile, Twineedle...eh) and have to work around it, just like Dragonite. I think you would have to give it a higher attacking stat than usual somewhere...possibly Special, given this would likely be a defensive Pokemon itself. However, you could also work in BT89's Infested concept in giving it Bug STAB instead.

There's a ton you could do with this and I think people would generally just have a lot of fun with it. Ahhh, the Mega Flygon speculation days...
 
Water/Electric

The main point of this typing is to have a true bolt beam resist which rby as a tier currently lacks, however, while this may be insanely potent, I feel this mon should be fairly passive offensively outside of a move like thunder-wave to keep it relatively balanced and hard checked by grass types. This would bring more viability lesser used moves on mons like psychic starmie, starmie. I also think that this would be cool as it is a typing for cap 2 that both synergizes well with cap 1 and is hard checked by it bringing an interesting dynamic to the tier. I also think that this typing would be cool just for the purpose of having interesting desing and flavor move potential as theres alot of ways that this simple concept can branch out.
 
Rock

Within RBY OU, the Rock type is entirely bound to the Ground type, with Rhydon and to some extent Golem being the only usable mons with the typing. Rock's main niche comes from being the only type to resist Normal (although Ghosts of course are immune) and passing up on ground would also mean CAP 2 would be hit neutrally by Ice moves. This would allow it to more effectively stand up to Tauros and Snorlax defensively, although variants running Earthquake would still be able to hit it super-effectively.

I think the idea of a Normal resist without Rhydon's Ice weakness has potential for a niche, but there are obviously a few things we'd have to focus on with this typing. Most importantly, we'd have to consider how CAP 2 can further differentiate itself from Rhydon, as we do not want to end up in a situation where either one simply outclasses the other. Ideally, the two would either fill two different niches or CAP2 would serve as an equally viable alternative to Rhydon in the same way Golem used to.

We'd also have to think about how exactly we'd want CAP 2 to take advantage of being able to switch in on those powerful physical Normal types. If we want to take a more offensive approach, we'd have to consider how to give CAP 2 the offensive power it would need given its only STAB attack would be Rock Slide. We'd also have to think about which matchup CAP 2 would lean into more, as a slow, strong wallbreaker would be better against Snorlax and a slightly weaker but much faster one would be better against Tauros. If we wanted to take a defensive approach, it would come down to what we give it to distinguish itself from Rhydon. In both cases, we'd need to carefully weigh how bulky we want it to be given what approach we take, with an offensive approach obviously being far less bulky, as CAP 2 would be looking to come in and threaten heavy damage, not necessarily tank repeated hits.

Overall, I feel like if done properly, a pure rock typing would open up some interesting avenues for a bit more counterplay against Snorlax and Tauros while still maintaining their status as two of the tier's biggest threats, not overlap with Rhydon too much, and let us see what the type can do alone in RBY when Ground doesn't automatically come with it!
 
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New to RBY and CAP in general but it doesn't hurt to try, right? Will probably endup doing more meaningful submissions in the future when we know more about the tier but participation points never are bad haha.

Ghost/Fighting

This type does some really interesting things:
  • Ghost can freely switch in and tank normal moves from the strong normal types in the tier
  • Fighting has a bad matchup to Psychic, a very common type in the tier.
  • They're both physical types with notoriously not very good STABs
This would make for a very interesting mon with that is great at some parts of the meta but terrible versus other parts, averaging a decent Pokémon - the goal of CAP is to create more mid tier options and shake up the rest of the tier in interesting ways, after all. It opens the door for, for example, a partner Pinsir to deal with psyshic types as a cute niche strategy.

The ghost type is fantastic in RBY due to walling the strong normals so it'd take some hits in the movepool and stats, for sure. While this isn't the time to talk about moves we do think it's relevant to bring up two of them, Lick and Submission, the type's main STABs.
  • Lick is a way to spread paralysis that can't hit normal types; it does mean it can't paralyse Chansey but it also can't paralyse Tauros, bringing some interesting play from it.
  • Submission has 1/4th of recoil. Fighting/Ghost as a type doesn't lend itself well to forms of recover so if you try to wallbreak with it it's very possible it'd get tons of damage, specially if vs one of the big defensive walls like Chansey or Snorlax. Even more so if it can't OH or 2HKO them; if it can't break very well through their healing then it'd knock itself out.
  • Neither of its STABs are actually strong vs normal types, interestingly enough. It makes for a interesting dynamic due to giving free healing fodder for Chansey and Snorlax.
Once again, we'd like to say again we've barely played the tier so this submission probably is way too strong, although we can give it low HP so Submission recoil is big and not very good options besides that and Lick.
 
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What if there were a fire type that had the firepower and speed to actually lean into the glass cannon archetype? A late-game sweeper? The typing I'm thinking of is:

Fire-Fighting late-game sweeper.

It would be weak to Rhydon but could actually dent it. Give it Hi Jump Kick and Fire coverage and enough power to 2hko Snorlax.

Counterplay would be widespread. Psychic and Water and Ground are some pretty bad weaknesses to have (plus Flying), and it has essentially no resistances. If it's just fast enough to beat Tauros, it would still be outsped and gutted by the Starmies, etc. of the world.

To compensate for a decent special stat, it could have low physical defense and HP.

I think this would provide reliable counters into the best Pokemon in the tier. IDK if this is too specific, but (say) a 115 attack stat is strong enough to not ohko Chansey but still 2hko Lax and Tauros.

The idea of a good fighting type in RBY is a bit passé I imagine, but special fire damage adds an interesting aspect while also giving great counterplay to pokemon that can predict and capitalize on it with those added weaknesses.
 
Ghost/Fire

I heard there were concerns about the Ghost typing being a bit broken, so how better to reign it in than with another rarely-seen typing? An immensely valuable ability to pivot in on Normal-type attacks entirely freely helps compensate for the Fire typing's lack of defensive utility, one of its most prominent flaws, while Fire typing's offensive potential helps compensate for Ghost's lack of STAB and the Earthquake and Surf weakness prevent the Ghost-typing from becoming too difficult to break through. The Fire typing has a lot of offensive potential that we don't get to see much outside of Moltres, with its only real common and effective resistance being Starmie- while Rhydon resists Fire, it wants nothing to do with Fire Blast's 30% burn chance, and while Slowbro is also an effective answer, it is nowhere near as common. Fire Blast's burn chance also greatly deters Tauros and Restless Snorlax from staying in after CAP2 pivots in on Body Slam or Hyper Beam. Fire Blast has its drawbacks, namely burning Chansey which you'd rather Freeze or Starmie which you'd rather Paralyze, but something that regularly gets opportunities to throw out the move could have an interesting role in the tier without being overbearing.
 
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Normal/Rock

Expanding on InfernoDragon's idea of a Rock that isn't paired with Ground-type, this typing would remove a Rock-type's biggest problem with switching into Body Slams: Body Slam's 30% paralysis chance. It also boosts the CAP's offenses with STAB Normal moves, and if STAB Hyper Beam is a concern, you could always just make it not learn that. It wouldn't even be the first fully evolved Rock-type that doesn't have Hyper Beam thanks to RBY Onix.
 
idk if im allowed to nominate twice but ill put this idea here either way. explanation will be briefer than my last sub (bc i havent looked at it as thoroughly):
note ~ made some edits for clarity as someone asked me to highlight the role of the mon’s fighting typing more.

rock/fighting

this could be seen as a sort of ‘alternate approach’ to eni’s submission, this mon would not really want to switch into lax/tauros body slams, if it gets paralyzed it will probably have a lot of difficulty wallbreaking; but it would be excellent at punishing hyperbeams, tho i guess less so from reflectlax. there is no existing rock type that can 2hko tauros (except for omastar lol), but this mon should easily 2hko tauros with its fighting stab. eg base 100 attack is enough for submission to always 2hko tauros, 90 attack is enough for hjk to always 2hko.
~ would probably want this mon to live tauros hyper beam into earthquake, which would let it (usually, ofc theres crits) beat tauros 1v1 if it switched into hbeam, but maybe not survive 2 tauros earthquakes, so that it wouldnt generally beat tauros 1v1 and cannot switch into tauros eq at all.

outside of a hyper beam punish, it is dual stab with pretty good type coverage, but of course both types lack very good stab moves in rby. as with any user of fighting type move(s) it would threaten chansey greatly, and to a lesser extent snorlax. vs the other common recover users, starmie/alakazam, it would struggle to break through them more than rhydon does, due to rock slide obv being a weaker stab than eq, but probably not to the extent that machamp does. it also ofc lacks rhydon’s twave immunity which is one of rhydon’s biggest offensive assets.
fighting stab also ofc hits rhydon super effectively, tho most likely it wouldnt ko and rhydon’s stab earthquake would hit extremely hard back. stab rock slide means its zapdos matchup should also be fine, unlike existing fighting types.
 
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juoean said:
idk if im allowed to nominate twice but ill put this idea here either way. explanation will be briefer than my last sub (bc i havent looked at it as thoroughly):

rock/fighting

this could be seen as a sort of ‘alternate verions’ of eni’s submission, this mon would not really want to switch into lax/tauros body slams, if it gets paralyzed it will probably have a lot of difficulty wallbreaking; but it would be excellent at punishing hyperbeams, tho i guess less so from reflectlax. there is no existing rock type that can 2hko tauros (except for omastar lol).
would probably want this mon to live tauros hyper beam into earthquake, which would let it (usually, ofc theres crits) beat tauros 1v1 if it switched into hbeam, but not survive 2 tauros earthquakes so it wouldnt generally beat tauros 1v1 and cannot switch into tauros eq at all.

outside of a hyper beam punish, it is dual stab with pretty good type coverage, but of course both types lack very good stab moves in rby. it would (almost certainly) have even more issues breaking thru starmie than rhydon does, but not to the extent machamp does.
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Where does the fighting type fit into all of this? All the things listed can be acomplished with just a pure rock type, no? What unique thing does Fighting bring to the table to make this worth picking over the other submissions?
 
Grass/Fighting (yes I just completely nuked my last sub)
I believe the combination of spore/powders and fighting stab would make this very threatening, by being able to catch a sleep early on and having an offensive typing which allows it to reliably threaten chansey, which would hate to absorb status from this due to it threatening chansey without being forced to sacrifice itself.
Its defensive typing isnt very good; even though it has 5 decent resistances in electric, grass, ground, rock, and water due to the fact it is weak to a very common offensive typings in psychic, but gives it an excuse to gain valuable status moves while also giving it a decent offensive typing.
 
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Knocking out two underutilized types with one sub my positing Bug/Ghost.

This type provides some weird and unique anti-meta qualities, being able to hit Psychics super-effectively as well as being immune to Normal-type attacks, and resisting EQ to boot. This gives the typing the ability to contest some of the most prevalent Pokemon and attackers in the metagame, though it does have a fair share of weaknesses holding it back; the presence of this typing might persuade mons to run more Fire-type coverage to help avoid being walled.
 
Votation time! New here so no idea if I should or note vote for myself. Also, due to my new-ness my opinions may not be the best hah'. Eitherway, here's my opinions on all the submissions:

Really like this combo, from all angles! Keeping the Earthquake weakness was a particular neat choice, choosing to drop Gengar's Psychic weakness rather than its Ground weakness. It gives a neat angle in making Ground the "No ghosts here please!" type.

It's not a type combination that does a ton per se but it's certainly a good one. The Bug type has tons of weaknessess and shortcomings so pairing it with a type like Dragon that is capable of giving it the defensive backbone it needs is great. I do have a soft spot for weak STAB mons, mons that rely on super effective hits to deal significant damage - they're just so interesting, and this type chart opens the way for a neat mon like that.

Now THIS is how you make a anti-body slam machine! The addition to Normal to Rock makes a great one-two combo, Rock negating the damage and Normal negating the paralysis. A viable mon with a 4x weakness to Fighting is VERY interesting and brings neat possibilities for counterplay. Also appreciated how it keeps the weakness to Water and Grass, shared by Rhyhorn, although not quite as extreme. It keeps these types doing their job, just not quite at overdrive like with Rhyhorn. Very cool!

An interesting combo you don't see very often, not even in the later gens. Its typing is great against the meta's 2 main types - Normal and Psychic - but other than those matchups neither type are particularly strong, severely lacking in good STAB options. It's a bit risky and could shake the meta a bit too much but a lack of strong offensive pressure will likely keep it at bay.

We'll be frank here - we don't know enough about the metagame to really judge this one, sorry. We don't really dislike this one, either - mostly neutral on it, so it's on the smack middle of my list.

Are these types really THAT underused? Feels like we could get plenty more creative here. There's nothing wrong per se, but it's not doing very much towards CAP's goal - to explore metagame possibilities - comapred to the rest of the submissions. Could use some extra creativity.

A little too good, maybe? Spore is strong, and so would be a strong Fighting type. Scaring the strong normals and threatening sleep is a bit too much in my opinion, so we'll pass. The type combination is certainly creative and on-theme, just a bit too strong.

That's kinda just it, isn't it? Just Rock. It's not a particularly bad submission, but also not something to be thrilled about. Normal/Rock does everything this one does with more flair, ignoring Body Slam's paralysis and inviting Fighting moves into the mix. It just doesn't excite me as much as any of the others.

Outspeed and 2HKO Taurus and Snorlax while being a mixed attacker with Fire and Fighting? This combo seems a bit too metawarping for confort, to be honest. It changes a lot - it hits for super-effective the entire big four. It's probably too much of a change for one mon.

this stage is ofc just for deciding typing, but i try to provide as much detail as possible in terms of thinking what the mon might be like.
Click to expand...
I don't think you quite got the idea, to be honest. We're collectively making a Pokémon, not playing tug-of-war to see whose idea gets the most stages in. It's better to keep the next pools open, for more people to give suggestions and make together something better than we could individually.

Also, structure your paragraphs better. These were really hard to read; could use some line breaks and other fancy decoration. Also is submitting twice even legal.


Ghost/Fire
Dragon/Bug
Normal/Rock
Bug/Ghost
Bug/Ground
Water/Electric
Grass/Fighting
Rock
Fire/Fighting
Fighting/Electric & Rock/Fighting
 
Here is my voting list + short rationale!

Dragon/Bug
Rock
Bug/Ground
Normal/Rock
Fighting/Electric
Water/Electric

Dragon/Bug - This mon would be almost STABless, with Bug stab being incredibly conditional and weak and there being 0 relevant dragon moves in the entire generation, and I think that would lead to some really interesting possibilities defensively.
Bug/Ground - Super interesting typing, and Ground gives weaknesses that gives common psychic types like Jynx and especially Starmie good counterplay, which would mean we have more leeway to give it solid offensive stats and not worry about it upsetting the meta too much
Normal/Rock - I like this submission since it's essentially a stronger version of the pure rock type I submitted; I'm just worried about creating what is functionally just a normal type with a token rock typing, and at least personally I'm not too eager to produce a normal type in a round about underused typings. Still, I think there's a lot of potential here for an interesting offensive or defensive mon, as long as we don't give it Hyper Beam
Fighting/Electric - Electric is a good foil to the fighting type, since it means a solid offensive mon with this typing could do work against Chansey, but still be threatened by EQ from Snorlax and Tauros.
Water/Electric - Not much to say here personally, it's just a cool combo that I think could have some interesting possibilities

Other submissions I didn't vote for because of 1 of 3 reasons:
1: I'm very worried about a ghost type being incredibly unbalanced if not done incredibly carefully, so I'd personally rather avoid that problem in the first place by not going with a ghost type on such an unrestrictive concept
2: It is grass/fighting, which I left out since we just had a grass CAP
3: It would have been lower down this list, at which point I just left it out
 
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Normal/Rock i like this more and more, i dont think theres a big risk of it playing like just another normal bc the typing is generally unfavorable vs tauros in a pure 1v1 since se eq is stronger than stab bslam (or dedge). luring eq from tauros is always significant tho, esp paired with one of the birds. and unlike gengar it would have offensive presence (outside of boom).
rock stab also inherently provides it coverage for cloyster, fwiw.
most likely i support no hbeam which opens up something like d-edge as a second stab move (to hit normals harder), or perhaps stomp/headbutt but idts for the reason below.

my main concern is being able to sit in front of both ice and mono reflectlax, however it cant break through either, since it relies on physical moves, except with a crit. therefore i think u want to keep the mons base speed / crit rate pretty low so that it isnt favored vs arguably the two best lax variants, as otherwise that is way too much of a change to the metagame (a mon that can hard switch into and force out non-eq reflect lax and is also hard to switch into itself). stomp/headbutt would similarly cause issues of it threatening lax. (note hbeam doesnt rly play a role here either way bc its critfishing)
or, u could keep its attack much lower so that itd need multiple crits to break lax. (and with a lower attack hbeam presumably would be fine).
anyway i think the lax matchup issue can be worked around.
then presumably you want some sort of coverage for rhydon, prob not an ice move tho as that would also allow it to sit and fish vs reflectlax. eq or bubblebeam probably the main options (mega drain?)

electric/fighting as i said before maybe not enough on concept as it might play a lot like any electric type

rock the option to make it an anti-jynx lead is funny, outside of that, may be a bit difficult to make it viable as it might be pretty lacking in power vs starmie and even chansey and zam. also kabutops already exists in terms of the defensive typing of a rock not weak to ice, but ofc kabu doesnt have rock slide it relies on slash and/or sd. idk, lol

grass/fighting was discussed previously @ the zap/rhydon triangle, which it is creating here unintentionally which is maybe kind of annoying, otherwise its a cool offensive typing also its weak to both blizz and psychic from starmie so can pretty much assume ur weak to one of starmies moves (since surfbolt is rare). razor is a more consistently stronger stab than tbolt, this mon has a lot of weaknesses but its a cool dual offensive typing resisted only by zapdos and moltres (cuno prob wouldnt take much either). anyway its similar to electric/fighting in many ways in trying to cover the fighting type’s biggest issue in starmie.

fire/ghost a ghost cap might feel risky but with the eq weakness this is maybe pretty similar to gengar against lax and tauros. one note tho is gengar cannot 3hko lax, a fire/ghost mon could most likely 3hko lax which would maybe be a significant difference, ofc fire blast has other switchins. prob needs body slam or smth so that starmie cant just come in trying to get burned.

electric/water not resisting electric means no checking zap, so prob rest isnt viable. would prob need more power than raichu to not be outclassed, and might be too similar to it.

bug/ground well this would prob just play like a pure ground, eg sandslash already doesnt mind exeggutor all that much, so idk if its rly ‘on concept’. its a ground that can come in hard on rhydon’s eq tho which is cool maybe, and eq is maybe more spammable knowing that egg isnt a good switchin. most likely it unintentionally creates a matchup triangle with zapdos and jolteon (checked by zap, but counters jolt).
 
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Alright, voting is in and Bug/Dragon wins!

RBY CAP 2 - Stats​
Skipping over matchup spread since that was largely determined in other slates, here we have stats. This is basically a big deciding factor in how you want matchup spreads to go, although more will be covered in movepools and anyone submitting any stat spreads should specify what their ideal matchup spread may be. Otherwise, you have until Saturday!
 
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