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From what I can understand, Stantler's only advantages over Stoutland and Sawsbuck is that it offers a Normal-type holepuncher with priority. The special tech moves, like Signal Beam for Tangela, Energy Ball for Rocks, and Shadow Ball for Ghosts, that it can use somewhat decently are another unique aspect of Stantler.
With that said, I don't think people realize that most of these tech moves don't so much as allow Stantler to outperform its competition rather than simply keep it in the running: Sawsbuck can already Horn Leech any Energy Ball targets, whereas Scrappy Stoutland doesn't even care for Ghosts. This means if you do intend on using Energy Ball (or Shadow Ball) Stantler, you're doing it on the basis that the unSTAB Sucker Punch is worthwhile enough to give up the other two's numerous benefits, which it rarely is. Not to mention if I wanted my Normal-type to fare better against offense, other options like Sand Rush Stoutland or even Agility Sawsbuck are still on the table :/
Signal Beam is probably the more worthwhile tech move to be running on Stantler, giving it a substantially better matchup against Tangela, but Sucker Punch's incompatibility with Sap Sipper hurts Stantler's potential niche, and this time you're left to wonder if Bouffalant is a better candidate for 'Normal-type holepuncher that can break through Tangela'.
Tldr: Stantler's niche is incredibly small; Sucker Punch is the only really noticeable thing about it, and its special tech moves simply allow it to function rather than excel. I too am skeptical on its D Ranking, though I won't really pursue further.
From what I can understand, Stantler's only advantages over Stoutland and Sawsbuck is that it offers a Normal-type holepuncher with priority. The special tech moves, like Signal Beam for Tangela, Energy Ball for Rocks, and Shadow Ball for Ghosts, that it can use somewhat decently are another unique aspect of Stantler.
With that said, I don't think people realize that most of these tech moves don't so much as allow Stantler to outperform its competition rather than simply keep it in the running: Sawsbuck can already Horn Leech any Energy Ball targets, whereas Scrappy Stoutland doesn't even care for Ghosts. This means if you do intend on using Energy Ball (or Shadow Ball) Stantler, you're doing it on the basis that the unSTAB Sucker Punch is worthwhile enough to give up the other two's numerous benefits, which it rarely is. Not to mention if I wanted my Normal-type to fare better against offense, other options like Sand Rush Stoutland or even Agility Sawsbuck are still on the table :/
Signal Beam is probably the more worthwhile tech move to be running on Stantler, giving it a substantially better matchup against Tangela, but Sucker Punch's incompatibility with Sap Sipper hurts Stantler's potential niche, and this time you're left to wonder if Bouffalant is a better candidate for 'Normal-type holepuncher that can break through Tangela'.
Tldr: Stantler's niche is incredibly small; Sucker Punch is the only really noticeable thing about it, and its special tech moves simply allow it to function rather than excel. I too am skeptical on its D Ranking, though I won't really pursue further.
You can talk about Sucker Punch being unSTAB all you want, but the fact of the matter is that Stantler's Life Orb Sucker Punch hits 92% as hard as Pawniard's. That is something worthwile, and that's the reason that Magnemite ranked it when Sawsbuck exists (I'm assuming). Knowing how frail the PU metagame is, and how easily worn down its offensive pokemon are due to Life Orb recoil and laughable hazard removal, doing >55% to Zebra/Floatzel/Simis is actually really good in a real-match situation. It's at least enough for D in my opinion.
Signal Beam isn't worthwile at all because Tangela is not so common in this meta and has Regen anyway, which forces you to play mindgames. Energy Ball is by far the best, if you were looking to break through Ghost-types you may as well have chosen Stoutland.
I've been playing around with scraggy a bit, and I think it's a shame that it's unranked. It fills an interesting niche as basically dark type Machoke. Nowhere near as strong, but bulkier due to recovery in drain punch. Having STAB knock-off is nice, and shed skin allows it to laugh off a lot of otherwise relevant threats. Certainly not the best pokemon, but pleasantly useful.
I've been playing around with scraggy a bit, and I think it's a shame that it's unranked. It fills an interesting niche as basically dark type Machoke. Nowhere near as strong, but bulkier due to recovery in drain punch. Having STAB knock-off is nice, and shed skin allows it to laugh off a lot of otherwise relevant threats. Certainly not the best pokemon, but pleasantly useful.
I mean you can get rid of status which doesn't really stop your opponent from spamming status if you wanted to, Machoke abuses statuses and makes them fear it instead of just having it get removed.
You don't even mention DD or BU
Dark-STAB isn't enough to justify it's use
Less HP and identical defenses.
with the reasoning you gave for it I wouldn't really consider it for my team. Not to mention that you miss out on a lot attack (25 base to be exact)
Scraggy fills the niche of being a fighting type that isn't weak to Psychic. Currently most Kadabras do not run Dazzling Gleam to hit it, and even some Grumpig sets forgo Focus Blast in place of other options. I think C- is a bit high tho, I could better see it fitting into E/ maybe D if you can get some good replays of it working.
EDIT: To expand, the problem with Scraggy in general is you need 3/4 boosts in order to hit where Machokes is for power with Drain Punch. Most teams would want to opt to run Machoke for the immediate power and physical bulk. The only saving grace it has is the fact that it can sweep with Bulk Ups as well as the fact that you can punish a lot of psychic types for not running dazzling gleam coverage which is where I think it will find most of its viability from.
Moving on, I'll give my opinion on the newest drops to the tier.
Ampharos is an interesting Electric-type providing bulk as well as pulling off an Agility set can that make it into an interesting sweeper despite how slow it is at first glance But Ampharos does have a higher Special Attack stat than both Raichu and Zebstrika meaning it can provide more offensive presence right off the bat, but like the former two Pokemon, it struggles against Stunfisk and can still be picked off by faster and stronger attackers. For these reasons, I feel B rank would be best suited for Ampharos.
Cryogonal has come to PU and is the best offensive spinner here which is great for offensive oriented teams love having non passive hazard removal on their side and for good reason despite its shortcomings which is mainly focused around Cryogonal's abysmal Defense which lets it die to most physical attacks. It still keeps up offensive presence which is solely lacking in the tier and Cryogonal will make an immeadiate impact on the tier. I wouldn't mind Cryogonal being A-, but imo, i feel like B+ is best suited for it.
Prinplup brngs a hazard setter and remover on top of being a Water check as well as having a solid matchup against other common Stealth Rock users such as Golem. However, its lack of recovery and being passive against most Grass-types, particularly Roselia as well as offensive teams that can easily overwhelm Prinplup. Despite its flaws, it has a solid role as a support Pokemon and it can perform that role well given the right support. B rank should suit it fine as a starting point.
Scraggy fills the niche of being a fighting type that isn't weak to Psychic. Currently most Kadabras do not run Dazzling Gleam to hit it, and even some Grumpig sets forgo Focus Blast in place of other options. I think C- is a bit high tho, I could better see it fitting into E/ maybe D if you can get some good replays of it working.
EDIT: To expand, the problem with Scraggy in general is you need 3/4 boosts in order to hit where Machokes is for power with Drain Punch. Most teams would want to opt to run Machoke for the immediate power and physical bulk. The only saving grace it has is the fact that it can sweep with Bulk Ups as well as the fact that you can punish a lot of psychic types for not running dazzling gleam coverage which is where I think it will find most of its viability from.
I'll see if I can get some good replays with it. C- might be a bit high but it seemed alright to me, based on the effectiveness of other mons in the tier. It's not simple to pilot and probably needs some development on my end, but in general has been fairly rewarding and easily forces switches. For those who were interested, here is my current set:
Scraggy @ Eviolite
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- High Jump Kick
I think balancing bulk and attack Ev's will be what does it here, as it is now this set is bulky but a bit too weak.
I'll see if I can get some good replays with it. C- might be a bit high but it seemed alright to me, based on the effectiveness of other mons in the tier. It's not simple to pilot and probably needs some development on my end, but in general has been fairly rewarding and easily forces switches. For those who were interested, here is my current set:
Scraggy @ Eviolite
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- High Jump Kick
I think balancing bulk and attack Ev's will be what does it here, as it is now this set is bulky but a bit too weak.
Alright so to get of the whole Scraggy talk, outside of talking about the recent drops, there all some other Pokemon in which should be discussed. In this case for me being Sawsbuck and Swanna. I feel as though both should get more noticed in terms of usage and I don't wanna use that as an excuse for either of them to drop. Sawsbuck has fallen out of favor in a sense to Simisage as a revenge killer do to Simisage having wider access to coverage moves and not being walled by Gourgeist and other bulky Grass-types. I also have played a lot with the SubSalac Sawsbuck set as it is my favorite set to run as it allows Sawsbuck to function as a great late game sweeper even if it isn't the first thing that comes to mind when it comes to sweepers. Swanna has been PU's best offensive defogger for a while, but struggled to fit onto teams due to its poor defenses but makes up for it with solid Water + Flying coverage while having access to Roost. However, with Cryogonal being more prominent now, being dealt with by Freeze-Dry doesn't bode well for Swanna at all. Basically to make a long story short, do you feel that Sawsbuck's and Swanna's viability are justified, or do you have your opinions as to them dropping and for what reason in general?
There is a lot of hazard removal in the tier now. Cryogonal and Vullaby are very splashable on a large variety of teams and are very reliable in their jobs, and there is also Prinplup to add to the mix as well. There is so much hazard removal nowadays that it makes it hard to justify a dedicated spike suicide lead. Cryogonal and Vullaby also avoid spikes entirely, so regardless of how many hazards Venipede sets up those 2 spinners are not hampered in the slightest.
This nomination also comes with my opinion that HO spikestack has been more-or-less a dying breed of team for a while now, regardless of how much I love the style personally. The meta has been shifting towards reliable spikes > fast spikes anyway, and the life of a PU spinblocker in this tier is tough...especially with Cryogonal threatening Gourgeist so much. The style got Pawniard yes, but Pawniard rejoined this tier to be met with a metagame that is decently prepared for it. Not to mention a good number of defoggers can punish Pawniard for being too eager to switch-n...and Purugly is ok but walled by a lot of common mons atm like Stunfisk. Audino also causes problems by being a wall that can actually heal off the hazard damage, which can be an issue for a team that relies on the momentum that constant spike damage does to walls. All of this makes HO spikestack less viable as a whole and the style's flagship, Venipede, is less viable for it.
Still good of course, but less viable in the current atmosphere of the metagame.
Hey guys! I was absent for a long time but I'm ready to contribute again...
Regardings the new drops I tested them and I've gotta say that I'm kinda dissapointed... While all of them seems good on paper, actually they are pretty mediocre...
Cryogonal is obviously the best one but it does have a few problems that will not make it fit for A Ranks... While it's pretty fast, and it does have nice special bulk, its physical bulk is abysmal and its special attack isn't as good as it should be... If Cryogonal invest on offenses, isn't gonna be handling special attacks as good as it should and it will have a lot of trouble against faster things like Raichu, Zebstrika and Floatzel. But if it decides to invest on defenses, Cryo then suddenly gets outspeed by a huge bunch of the meta without a lot of problem, it will still fall against strong neutral physical attacks and its attacking power will be REALLY lacking...
Also, even if Cryo does have little options, it actually has 4MSS because it would love to run Freeze-Dry, Hidden Power (by the way, I'm not loving HP Fighting in offensive Cryo... I have lost a few times against non HP Fighting Kadabras), Rapid Spin, Recover, Ice Beam and Toxic... With Ice Beam you will be helpless against Water Types but Frezee-Dry is weak for a principal STAB... HP is pretty much needed for some coverage... Spin is basically the only move that we could expect to get in any Cryo because is the best niche it had... But then it does have trouble against Missy and Noir... The best thing Cryo can do to them is Toxic them... But then you lose Recover that would be pretty much necessary to keep Cryo Healthy through the match considering that nasty SR weakness...
So... In the end I feel that while Cryo is arguably our best spinner because isn't absolutely passive or terribly slow, its actually a mediocre pokemon outside that... Kinda like Glalie using spikes (still better than Glalie though) which is why I would support something around B...
Then Amphy is best at doing the same that its mega does in UU... Being a bulky pivot... Offensive investment + AV or defensive investment + Lefties + support moves (Heal Bell, Toxic or TW are decent options) are kinda viable and the only real niche for Amphy because for a fast and hard hitting setup sweeper I would rather use NP Raichu... Another set that I tried and it was kinda decent (maybe because it was pretty unexpected) is Scarf Amphy... It just outspeeds positive natured base 105, but it can be used over specs Trode or Zeb because of different coverage thanks to Focus Miss... I would say B- just because it is bulky for an electric type and because static helps A LOT against a few offensive pokes...
Finally Prinplup gets the short end of the stick... While SR + Defog + Scald burns looks terrifying in paper, this is actually mediocre in practice... Role compression is nice to give you free spots on your team, but it will often leave you without doing something... Switching+Defogging+SR is giving the opponent 3 free turns to setup like hell! And while Prinplup bulk is decent, isn't like its gonna handle a few supereffective hits or even neutral hits, specially after switching into the hazards its supposed to clean... Also the meta is overprepared for water types and Prin will not be the exception... I would say C+ for this one...
Hey guys! I was absent for a long time but I'm ready to contribute again...
Regardings the new drops I tested them and I've gotta say that I'm kinda dissapointed... While all of them seems good on paper, actually they are pretty mediocre...
Cryogonal is obviously the best one but it does have a few problems that will not make it fit for A Ranks... While it's pretty fast, and it does have nice special bulk, its physical bulk is abysmal and its special attack isn't as good as it should be... If Cryogonal invest on offenses, isn't gonna be handling special attacks as good as it should and it will have a lot of trouble against faster things like Raichu, Zebstrika and Floatzel. But if it decides to invest on defenses, Cryo then suddenly gets outspeed by a huge bunch of the meta without a lot of problem, it will still fall against strong neutral physical attacks and its attacking power will be REALLY lacking...
Also, even if Cryo does have little options, it actually has 4MSS because it would love to run Freeze-Dry, Hidden Power (by the way, I'm not loving HP Fighting in offensive Cryo... I have lost a few times against non HP Fighting Kadabras), Rapid Spin, Recover, Ice Beam and Toxic... With Ice Beam you will be helpless against Water Types but Frezee-Dry is weak for a principal STAB... HP is pretty much needed for some coverage... Spin is basically the only move that we could expect to get in any Cryo because is the best niche it had... But then it does have trouble against Missy and Noir... The best thing Cryo can do to them is Toxic them... But then you lose Recover that would be pretty much necessary to keep Cryo Healthy through the match considering that nasty SR weakness...
So... In the end I feel that while Cryo is arguably our best spinner because isn't absolutely passive or terribly slow, its actually a mediocre pokemon outside that... Kinda like Glalie using spikes (still better than Glalie though) which is why I would support something around B...
Then Amphy is best at doing the same that its mega does in UU... Being a bulky pivot... Offensive investment + AV or defensive investment + Lefties + support moves (Heal Bell, Toxic or TW are decent options) are kinda viable and the only real niche for Amphy because for a fast and hard hitting setup sweeper I would rather use NP Raichu... Another set that I tried and it was kinda decent (maybe because it was pretty unexpected) is Scarf Amphy... It just outspeeds positive natured base 105, but it can be used over specs Trode or Zeb because of different coverage thanks to Focus Miss... I would say B- just because it is bulky for an electric type and because static helps A LOT against a few offensive pokes...
Finally Prinplup gets the short end of the stick... While SR + Defog + Scald burns looks terrifying in paper, this is actually mediocre in practice... Role compression is nice to give you free spots on your team, but it will often leave you without doing something... Switching+Defogging+SR is giving the opponent 3 free turns to setup like hell! And while Prinplup bulk is decent, isn't like its gonna handle a few supereffective hits or even neutral hits, specially after switching into the hazards its supposed to clean... Also the meta is overprepared for water types and Prin will not be the exception... I would say C+ for this one...
You're really underselling Prinplup. Although the only reason to use it is role compression it is really good at what it does. Due to really high bulk and decent typing it definitely gets the opportunity to Defog or set up rocks throughout the game on pokemon like Floatzel and Monferno. And unlike the hazard removers, it directly threatens all Stealth Rock users with Scald, and isn't a free switch in for anything other than Roselia cause of Status and Toxic/Yawn. It's basically a really reliable pokemon that is easily B or B+ in my opinion.
I really don't want to turn this into a long post but Krokorok is not C material anymore. Simple Knock+EQ coverage is actually disgusting in this meta, solid speed tier, reliable SRer, all the good stuff. It's one of a handful of SRers that fits on offense and comes with more immediate annoyance than Gabite, plus Taunt's gotten more useful with the rise of bulky teams and knock off is still great. I don't like this in the same rank as "insert shitty mons from C rank here". I mean specifically, bulky playstyles got buffed and knock+taunt+eq shits all over them while it's still just as decent versus offense (can get rocks and maybe a knock, does its job)
This tier shift is one i have been enjoying with all the hype of the possible drops we could have i was both intrigued and worried on how the meta would be affected with all of the possibilities however we ended up getting three nice quiet additions with nothing going over the top but keeping interest and even getting me back to battling.
Ampharos - was a Pokemon i was dying to get as all the times i was building as of late would of really enjoyed having a slow electric pivot which Ampharos fitted the bill for along with its options Ampharos has both been a nice support or offensive electric to anyone's team however its biggest flaw is with all our electrics and that is the struggle against common electric switch ins from Roselia+Stunfisk to the rare Trapinch nothing stops Ampharos from sharing the same fate as Electabuzz,Electrode and Zebstrika as an Electric type.
Sets - Thankfully it has a few options to separate itself from its electrical piers in the from of Agility and Assault Vest sets, Agility is a very underrated set for Ampharos yes the previously mentioned walls are a trouble however its natural bulk allows it to be quite difficult for scarfers to take out as well as Timid nature variants out-speeding the like of ScarfTom a common answer to speed set-up those said walls are also much more deal-able than one might believe allowing Agility to have its solid place as a set-up sweeper. Assault Vest has been considered a fairly viable option almost the better one due to its usable bulk,typing and pivot capabilities unlike the other AV users in Bouffalant and Swalot however it suffers a little more with its comparison to Eviolite Electabuzz being around the same in bulk while having the ability to use status option but with Ampharos having that slow switch and further investment its no surprise this has been consider a nice pokemon.
All in all Ampharos has the same issues as any Electric type but with notable Pros and Cons so its a little hard to place it specifically however B-/C+ are all fine options for an original placing as of now.
Ampharos @ Life Orb
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Agility
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Ampharos @ Assault Vest
Ability: Static
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe Alt spread: EVs: 204 HP / 252 SpA / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
Cryogonal - has been a very expected drop for some time now mainly for its capabilities as an offensive rapid spinner with a speed stat over base 45 obviously though its usefulness is more then just that.
4MSS - Although originally its movepool seemed barren it suffers from a bit of 4MSS with Freeze-Dry+Rapid Spin being staple moves the last slots are very interchangeable with moves like Hidden Power Fighting/Ground,Recover/Explosion ,Toxic,Haze,Knock Off and Ice Beam. This both makes Cryogonal slightly unpredictable however still one dimensional in its role speaking of which.
Role - Cryogonal believe it or not does have more than one role while its best role is being an offensive rapid spinner it does posses a defensive spinner spread utilizing Freeze-Dry,Rapid Spin,Recover,Filler used to come in against special attackers. This role however is considered very subpar due to its already weak moves and losing the speed which it is prized for as well as a terrible mono-ice typing.
Match-ups - In the beginning Cryogonal was worshiped for its ability to instantly switch into two prominent hazard setters in Roselia and Stunfisk with its high SpD these two had little to affect Cryogonal however Roselia+Stunfisk have Sleep Powder and Stone Edge respectively to not be a free switch into Cryogonal. Mono-Ice typing is rather 50/50 in effectiveness due to Levitate and a solid special defense cryo is able to check quite a few notable special/physical attackers however with one resistance,rocks weakness and defense that makes you fear pursuit it is difficult to keep Cryo long term unless played right.
Plenty of pros and cons are left out as it is a rather large topic to cover everything it has in the end i personally do think its best left in B+ rather than touching the A ranks.
Prinplup - Firstly, What Prinplup is most known for is its dual access of Stealth Rock+Defog these in combination are very nice especially in lead match-ups which Prinplup itself does nicely in also ability to hold the Eviolite to bolster its defenses making it a semi-reliable wall to physical attackers allowing a few more chances to set rocks or defog away hazards.
However, This comes with the fact Prinplup is a huge momentum suck as well as its requirement of being both your setter/remover forcing it to come in again eventually to set/get rid of hazards this in tandem semi-forces the addition of Audino as Prinplup desperately requires a source of recovery as well as something to take special hits. Prinplup also suffers against the most recent addition Cryogonal which can freely switch into Prinplup and stop any form of hazards from being set as Prin can do very little while Cryo can spin or Freeze-Dry away.
Prinplup also faces competition from Lumineon as a defogger now this point is a little less noticeable as Prinplup is mostly a setter rather than a remover but as a physically defensive water type with defog Lumineon generally will be the optimal choice with passive recovery the immunity to water and U-Turn this genuinely is competition as stealth rock setter is really not hard to put on your team. This all makes Prinplup mostly beneficial on defensive oriented playstyles with the few strong positives the cons that come with it are easily noticeable.
Overall its role compression is something i really dont see being all that useful when two seperate mons to do one thing is honestly just something easier to fit on teams C+ nothing else tbh.
I really don't want to turn this into a long post but Krokorok is not C material anymore. Simple Knock+EQ coverage is actually disgusting in this meta, solid speed tier, reliable SRer, all the good stuff. It's one of a handful of SRers that fits on offense and comes with more immediate annoyance than Gabite, plus Taunt's gotten more useful with the rise of bulky teams and knock off is still great. I don't like this in the same rank as "insert shitty mons from C rank here". I mean specifically, bulky playstyles got buffed and knock+taunt+eq shits all over them while it's still just as decent versus offense (can get rocks and maybe a knock, does its job)
I totally agree with this... Also, intimidate + some defensive investment + eviolite, makes Krok surprisingly bulky on the physical side and even things like Roselia don't want to switch in Knock Off or Earthquake...
And while doesn't sound as threatening as other things, adamant moxie scarf outspeed everything unboosted besides Ninjask and Electrode and works as a decent late game cleaner that can come in a few times thanks to immunities to Electric and Psychic...
So... I would support a rise to C+ and if I can continue using it effectively, maybe even to B- (If I can, everybody can xD)
See ya!
Edit: I would like to propose Sliggoo for a C rank... While it doesn't have the cleric capabilities of Altaria, its actually a little bit stronger and much bulkier in exchange for a few resistances - weaknesses and I feel it can be a nice switch in for a lot of special attackers and it can even deal with a few physical ones...
Sliggoo @ Eviolite
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 64 SpA / 96 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
Rest
Sleep Talk
Dragon Pulse
Hidden Power Fighting
While the spread might seem absolutely weird, its actually pretty good at luring Pawniard... The offensive Investment allows Slig to OHKO Paw after SR and the defense evs are to survive Knock Off after SR... It can also deal with Zebstrika, almost every Rapidash, Raichu (it does have a decent chance to survive two +2 HP ice and it will 2HKO Rai with Dragon Pulse and LO recoil), all special Floatzel (even specs Ice Beam is a 3HKO and LO is almost everytime a 4HKO and then Float can be easily stalled) and almost every specially offensive mon will be pressured because many will be 2HKOed by Dragon Pulse after SR... Then Sliggoo can be a decent pokemon for defensive builds and it deserves to be ranked...
P.D.: if Pawn isn't that important, you can always split those SpA evs into defenses and completely avoid things like 2HKOes from Monferno's Close Combat or Rotom F Blizzards after SR, which will make it even better at dealing with those two...
I dunno Mag... I think you guys were too harsh on Amphy, while being a little bit generous on Cryo and Prin... I know the council must have some reasons but I would like to hear them to agree with you, since in the discussions here about Amphy we were kinda agreeing on something around B-
I dunno Mag... I think you guys were too harsh on Amphy, while being a little bit generous on Cryo and Prin... I know the council must have some reasons but I would like to hear them to agree with you, since in the discussions here about Amphy we were kinda agreeing on something around B-
C- for Ampharos was basically was actually higher than a lot of the council were saying. Ampharos doesn't have any huge niches in practise, especially as an AV user you can barely justify use over electrabuzz (which importantly outspeeds rotom-f) and bouffalant, as ampharos lacks important special resists outside of electric which just volt switch on it. Additionally there are tons of bulky Pokemon like Roselia and Stunfisk which can wall it, as most teams are now very well prepared for electric types. Agility also has an issue of being slow in a metagame where choice scarf users are on almost every team. So overall it only fits on teams in very specific cases.
Not much to say about Prinpulp, but its bulk is great letting it check big threats like Monferno, and its ability to Defog + set up rocks is also very useful for any team.
Cryogonal is so great rn as its the best spinner for offensive teams meaning its really splashable, and its reliable as there aren't too many ghost types around (and two of the most common ones are weak to ice). Checking Rotom-f, and pressuring Roselia without needing much bulk is also nice for offensive based teams.
Idk if people want reasons for the others, but krokorok went up for reasons megazard stated, lapras is a nice floatzel check and heavy hitter, gogoat walls most special attackers and is a decently reliable wincon, and dusknoir went up due to its underrated LO set.
C- for Ampharos was basically was actually higher than a lot of the council were saying. Ampharos doesn't have any huge niches in practise, especially as an AV user you can barely justify use over electrabuzz (which importantly outspeeds rotom-f) and bouffalant, as ampharos lacks important special resists outside of electric which just volt switch on it. Additionally there are tons of bulky Pokemon like Roselia and Stunfisk which can wall it, as most teams are now very well prepared for electric types. Agility also has an issue of being slow in a metagame where choice scarf users are on almost every team. So overall it only fits on teams in very specific cases.
Actually I totally overlooked Buzz... And while AV Amphy is still bulkier due to slightly higher SpD and 25 more base HP and more powerful due to 20 more SpA, I guess the speed is a big issue in such an offensive meta... I dunno if maybe could work as a Specs wallbreaker with a slow volt switch for momentum, but after seeing this... I still disagree with C- but I'm going now for D...
See ya guys!
P.D.: I would add on changes that Gogoat seems even better right now because even if its weak to Cryo, it can OHKO offensive ones with Horn Leech after rocks and can also beat Prin and Amphy... And bout Lapras... It can even go higher considering that isn't bothered by Cryo and Prin that are the relevant drops...
P.D.2: sooner or later the Cryo and Prin hype will pass mwahahahaha
Sawsbuck - Definently fallen in favor of other pokemon for certain roles Sawsbuck was best known for its Scarf and SD sets which were always effetive in there roles however they have been dropped in favor of ScarfSage and SD Leafeon due to better speed and power even its ability is generally used for Zebstrika/Gogoat. Although still a great mon the competition its facing has made it fallen heavily for these options.
B Rank
Venipede+Glalie - Current meta trends have definitely seen a big shift from the former Sui-Spike stack and hyper offense based teams with the meta trending to Bulky-Offense for a change. Although these two still are fine suicide setters currently its far too easy even with the pressuring style its used on to get rid of hazards.
B- rank
Vanilluxe - This has no niche anymore to be frank Set-up Regice,Boom+Freeze-Dry Cryogonal,Wallbreaking Glaceon not even mentioning Rotom-F or Articuno i see little reason as to why it should stay ranked.
E rank
Rises?
Metang - This is something a lot have mentioned and i can see why right now its a great stealth rock setter right now and its resistances are extremely useful currently with both the Tank and SpD spread being very splashable atm. Its 4th slot is also fairly unpredictable atm with Toxic and Pursuit being great right now its weaknesses are also easily covered up with little cost for the cores it assists in.
A- rank
Banette - This seems like a rather awkward nom since Banette in general is always going to be that "why?" Pokemon but its mixed set currently is very effective for breaking down and crippling the defensive cores that are becoming a lot more popular. Priority,Knock Off and two special moves that compliment each other nicely Banette (despite the absurd frailty) is a little better then D right now.
C- rank
Unable to be discriptive due to school time but these sum it up quickly.
Disagree about sawsbuck, it may not get much usage but that doesn't necessarily mean it's less viable. It is very anti-meta right now because everyone uses golem or Reli as their normal checks. SD + life orb is as great a wall breaker as simisage and is walled only by goirgeist while scarf remains still the most reliable physical scarf user in the tier.
Also vanilla cream should remain ranked as it is sort of a middle ground between the other ices. Hitting harder and having actual physical bull gives it a niche vs cryo. While it's good speed tier with timid and access to freeze dry makes it actually superior to glaceon. Vanilluxe can also run a pretty decent choice scarf set due to an actual reliable ice STAB which I have tested (Galbia can confirm I think).
Now there is indeed some rank inflation and some stuff needs to move down. Mons like Probo and Dodrio and Yena simply aren't on par with the others in their rank, but I'm on phone and don't feel like explaining. Also unrank Wartortle.
Double post, but people wouldn't notice otherwise, so: Vullaby to B+
There's FAR less reason to use Vullaby now that we have two more reliable hazard removers in Cryo and Prinplup. It's still a good pokemon, don't get me wrong, but it has less of a niche. And it is still easily overwhelmed by Rocks, Knock Off, double-switching, etc.
Mightyena to B+
Mightyena can be scary. But people are and have been prepared for it since they had to prepare for Pawniard. It really takes a lot of skill to pull off a sweep and avoid all the Sucker Punch 50-50s, plus Mightyena doesn't provide much defensive utility.
Audino to A
This thing is way overhyped. Not too splashable because it practically requires you to run a counter to Machoke and Monferno on your team, also not difficult to overwhelm with special attackers either since a TON of them use Focus Blast now.
Probopass to B+
This thing just loses to way too many threats in the meta. It's worse than Metang because 4x super effective moves are everywhere, and it loses to Cryo as well. It has a niche in beating Pawn but can't do it without losing Sturdy :/
Fraxure to B+
Fraxure is on par with Altaria, not above. Even its offensive DD set is not superior to Altaria's. It struggles with setup opportunities and revenge killed by every Choice Scarf user, which are everywhere.
Vibrava to C
This thing is very niche now. Situations are very rare where I'm gonna want this as my hazard remover over Cryo or Prinplup. The typing is still cool though.
Purugly to B+
This pokemon is way better than it's given credit for. It is fantastic on hyper offense teams as it provides great priority to revenge kill pretty much every frail threat, and it is super fast and can kill a ton of stuff with Return alone.
Basculin to B+
If you don't have a Politoed or Gourgeist or Tangela on your team, I guarantee you are gonna have a tough time dealing with Basculin. It's so strong, and takes advantage of all our frail LO users so well it's not rare to have this clean up lategame with Aqua Jet.
Dodrio to A-
Ugh, this thing is dead weight when the opponent has a Rock-Type on their team or Stunfisk, which is often. But it's not that good vs offense either cause it kills itself with recoil and rocks, and so can easily be picked off by priority or anything faster. Just dies too quickly.
Mr.Mime to A+
Mr.Mime is a lord. I'm not talking about just the Scarf set, which despite being weak cleans so well lategame due to an utter lack of Psychic resists. But the LO (both 3 attacks and Nasty Plot) and Choice Specs sets make it pretty much the best wallbreaker in the tier. Due to Monferno being so common, you basically get a kill every time it comes in, making it really easy to just have your opponent sack a bunch of stuff.
Pawniard to A
People are really prepared for Pawniard. You see something like Monferno or Stunfisk on every team, or a faster Will-O-Wisp user that can easily stop a sweep. Although it is still really dangerous and can put work in with Knock Off in any match-up, it is getting easier and easier to play around the 50-50s with Sucker Punch.
Scraggy to C-
Bulk Up Scraggy isn't so good, but it can put in work and is annoying. It is just super tough to switch between its drain punch and knock off coverage, and barely anything is able to OHKO it. Not gonna pull off a sweep off anything but passive teams but can usually annoy 2 or 3 members of the team with removing items and maybe getting a kill.
Vullaby to B+
There's FAR less reason to use Vullaby now that we have two more reliable hazard removers in Cryo and Prinplup. It's still a good pokemon, don't get me wrong, but it has less of a niche. And it is still easily overwhelmed by Rocks, Knock Off, double-switching, etc.
Vullaby is the best defensive hazard removal option in the tier. It works and fits on all types of playstyles and it is one of the few defensive answers to Stoutland, Jumpluff, and Sub SD Bouffalant. Prin does not give vullaby competition at all in hazard removal because Vullaby not only has reliable recovery, but set versatility and the ability to beat roselia 1v1 with Brave Bird and provide momentum with U-turn. Vullaby just checks way too much in the tier (forgot to mention Grumpig above) for it to drop below A right now.
Audino to A
This thing is way overhyped. Not too splashable because it practically requires you to run a counter to Machoke and Monferno on your team, also not difficult to overwhelm with special attackers either since a TON of them use Focus Blast now.
Although it may not fit on offensive teams, Audino does wonders for Stall and Semi-Stall. It can find a fit onto balance squads as well by sponging special attackers quite easily and taking advantage of regen. I don't use it often, but in the past I have found Audino very capable of Wish supporting bulkier playstyles quite easily when paired with stunfisk to catch wishes and handle machoke, pawniard, and monferno. Also, encore Audino is one of the only mons we have to handle sub rotom in the tier, which is an important consideration.
Vibrava to C
This thing is very niche now. Situations are very rare where I'm gonna want this as my hazard remover over Cryo or Prinplup. The typing is still cool though.
Vibrava is well deserving of its place at B-. It's one of the only defoggers that can easily support and remove hazards for x4 rock weak mons like Ninjask and Articuno while still taking on Rock mons. It takes neutral hits from rock moves and has a ground immunity which allows it to handle Golem/stunfisk quite easily. Access to reliable recovery and decent special bulk makes it a quality B- mon.
Dodrio to A-
Ugh, this thing is dead weight when the opponent has a Rock-Type on their team or Stunfisk, which is often. But it's not that good vs offense either cause it kills itself with recoil and rocks, and so can easily be picked off by priority or anything faster. Just dies too quickly.
Dodrio is fantastic in this meta right now. Band Brave Bird has the ability to 2HKO defensive vullaby with a bit of prior damage and Scarf is incredibly good for a surprise factor and being able to outspeed all of our top tier scarfers. Knock off allows it to chip things like Probopass and banded return does 42.1 - 50% to defensive stunfisk. The ability to OHKO machoke and threaten all of these grass types that are becoming more common is a huge plus for it as well. I think Dodrio should keep its place in A+ for sure.
Mr.Mime to A+
Mr.Mime is a lord. I'm not talking about just the Scarf set, which despite being weak cleans so well lategame due to an utter lack of Psychic resists. But the LO (both 3 attacks and Nasty Plot) and Choice Specs sets make it pretty much the best wallbreaker in the tier. Due to Monferno being so common, you basically get a kill every time it comes in, making it really easy to just have your opponent sack a bunch of stuff.
I like Mime a lot, but its best set (scarf) suffers when taking into account that the tier has a ton of switch-ins to each of its moves when predicted well. Roselia, Vullaby, Grumpig, Probopass are all mons that are quite common that make using Mime a roll for what the mime user goes for. It has a lot of potential with Soundproof, Healing Wish, and enough special bulk to take one solid switch-in to a special attacker, but it doesn't have the overall power of an A+ mon. Each mon in A+ (with the exception of Zebstrika) you need to take into special consideration when building. Mime is really good, but when creating any well built team, you generally have answers to each of its moves. I just don't see it as an A+ mon, but out of all of the noms I disagree with, this one is the most understandable in my opinion.
Pawniard to A
People are really prepared for Pawniard. You see something like Monferno or Stunfisk on every team, or a faster Will-O-Wisp user that can easily stop a sweep. Although it is still really dangerous and can put work in with Knock Off in any match-up, it is getting easier and easier to play around the 50-50s with Sucker Punch.
There is a reason why people are so prepared for pawniard on ever team you encounter. If you aren't running a stunfisk or monferno, you need to be running Machoke on HO to sponge a knock and die on the second switch into pawn by a +2 iron head or running defensive relicanth (which is barely seen anymore). Pawniard is very influential in this meta even if you don't see it on every team. It has very few answers in this tier and any good player will be running team support to take advantage of those. Pawn gets near free setup on roselia and can easily find opportunities to dismantle/setup on bulky mons such as Audino/Vullaby or mons fearing sucker punch. Defiant boosts discouraging webs and defog is also a big plus for teams either not wanting to run hazard removal or running hazards themselves. So this is another reason that I don't think it should drop at all.
The other noms I either don't have an opinion on, or haven't used enough to have an opinion on.
