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Tested Intimidate Snubull, Qwilfish, Jolteon, and Vupix.
Snubull: Ew. This mon pains me. I hate to rag on a mon with great qualities but this just doesn't cut it. 1% encounter rate and slow Speed destroy any viability it could otherwise have. It's hard to say C with that encounter rate and the mostly meh matchups. D tier, though I feel like it's a borderline C. Maybe Quick Feet saves it?
Vulpix: Nothing short of fantastic. Once you get to Rocket stuff it dominates. Heck I could even see A-tier if not for Stone. Name another mon that sweeps Elite 4 not in S. I can't think of one. Heart says B-tier though. Also is a bit annoying to baby until Flamethrower.
Qwilfish: Yeah this sucks. Clear D-tier, Rollout cheese on two bosses (Morty and Clair) isn't good enough when you are weaksauce until Waterfall.
Jolteon: Good when it works but is such a hassle to get this thing going it is a clear C-tier. Reliance on RNG / Rain doesn't help either.
also tested some things where I felt the tier I said may have not been correct. I have logs, but they are a bit scattered, so will present if someone is curious about specific matchups.
Zubat -> C
I said D on it initially, but I used a Friend Ball version, which probably affected its performance in the long-run. While it starts out terribly, it becomes better once it gets Astonish and then better moves. It was useful for Team Rocket as a whole, being basically unkillable there due to its typing. It was also useful for Koga and Bruno, so I think C-tier is fine
Aipom -> B
I said C initially due to past experience being mixed with it. However, I found out that the best way to use this at the Elite Four is to have a set of Tickle and Last Resort only. This allowed Ambipom to perform well against almost every member of the E4 (I think Will was the worst matchup of all), notably being able to KO 4 out of 5 of Karen's Pokemon under optimal circumstances. Given it levels up fast and has immediate power and speed with Friend Ball Return, I am fine with B (but not any higher)
Jolteon -> C
Agreed with C-tier. Drums more or less described my issues with it; huge investment and RNG reliance, since you often need two Charge Beam boosts in a row to do much in the later portions of the game. Not gonna go too in-depth here, since my stance is clear
Mankey -> C, I guess
I had very bad experience in the past with Mankey to the point I dropped it before the E4. After retesting it, I am more inclined to agree with C-tier, due to being a non-Normal or Psychic-type that is viable for Morty and being able to KO things like Karen's Umbreon with Focus Punch. I think D is still possible, because it's simply not the best thing to use and HGSS is definitely one of the, if not the, weakest performances for Mankey.
Stantler -> C
Had said D on this, but turned out to be more useful than I remember. Leer + Return + Intimidate is very useful for Whitney's Miltank and Leer + Return has allowed me to KO some opponents later on. There really isn't much to say about a Normal-type in those games, it's just all-around useful, but its E4 matchups are lacking, being able to KO a few things with Zen Headbutt, but nothing more.
Sudowoodo -> D
Said D previously and gonna keep my stance. Sudowoodo is unreliable at best for most relevant Gym Leaders and is only good for rival fights. It does get Rock Slide at level 33, but I was at TR by the time it learned it. It being slow as hell made it vulnerable to all the hax the game throws at you. It was also borderline useless at the League, managing to only get few KOs agaisnt Koga. Kepe this in D-tier
Farfetch'd -> D
This thing requires crazy amount of set up to... do anything against any boss really. Clair was the biggest offender, requiring full SD set up, one Agility, and *four* healings. There's no matchup where Farfetch'd hasn't required at least one SD to sweep, but most required even more. Keep this in D. Not to mention that the E4 is pretty bad for it, as it will be 2HKOed often and won't even be able to set up.
Slowbro - leaning towards C
Not sure what happened, but it felt worse than before (I said B, although I did suggest C as a possibility). I guess it is because Slowbro requires a heavy backtrack to be obtained. Being slow didn't really help, because it meant it could be weakened and haxed easily, as was the case with Jasmine, who is not a reliable sweep. It needs Specs to OHKO/2HKO some things, but that prevents it from efficiently sweeping. All in all, I think C can be considered seriously. If you drop Slowbro, you probably want to drop Slowking too, as they are more or less the same.
I can try testing something else if it's of urgent need of testing, but I will most likely do it in a quick and dirty fashion, beause I am sort of busy with my own list currently.
Placing some Pokemon down. After this post, the remaining Pokemon will be posted in about a week from today.
Gastly (Trade) -> A
Gastly (No Trade) -> B
Abra (No Trade) -> B
Zubat -> C
Flareon B -> C (This was a typo originally.)
Ledyba -> E
Girafarig -> B
Pidgey -> E
Togepi -> D
Hoppip -> D
Goldeen ->C
Drowzee ->C
Yanma -> E
Sunkern -> E
Koffing -> D
Aipom -> B
Vulpix -> B
Marill -> D
Diglett -> E
Mankey -> C
Meowth -> E
Tyrouge -> E
Ekans -> D
Jynx -> D
The OP will be updated accordingly. As usual, if you have grievances, make a case.
I think Hoppip could merit C. I've used it several times and although its a bitch and a half to train, if you do put in the effort you get a pretty unparalleled mon for making boss fights easier. Fast SleepSeed is as broken as ever and is extremely useful for dealing with things like Claire's Kingdra (which Jumpluff is capable of soloing) and Lance's Dragonites. It's a passable attacker as well, albeit with mostly grass/normal most of the way, but the selling point is buying you all the time in the world against the hardest opponents. Surprisingly decent bulk/typing too, weak to a decent amount of relatively uncommon attacking types but resistant to a few very common ones in return (Water, Ground, Fighting).
Not going to argue hard for this because I understand all too well how much of a slog training it can be (interestingly I've never had much issue training Hoppip to Skiploom, its Skiploom to Jumpluff that's a pain in the ass, to the point I'll dump in a few Rare Candies to push it up the last few levels to evolve), but for how I evaluate mons I think C is a perfect fit for something that offers a specific, valuable niche (as opposed to a specific, mediocre niche which would be a perfect fit for D).
Pretty much the exact same thing as Alakazam - Focus Blast (not even going to unironically entertain the idea of using that ingame because of its terrible accuracy and low pp) except it doesn't need trading/romhack giving trade evos an alternative method.
Soothe bell being nearby, hair cutting in Goldenrod, day care to get to at least lv 14 to have confusion as soon Eevee evolves in the next level and to make it catch up fast means it doesn't need any babying, having the bike to quickly get a ton of steps for happiness, and the department store for a vitamin or 2 make the evolution requirement trivial.
All of this was done mostly using choice specs and metronome (the item) because this says nothing about not using game corner items and it is by far the best option in fights that are not click a single move to win.
Using confusion a few times is really hard. Sand attack can be used if someone is afraid of gengar hitting shadow balls, even though it will probably won't kill you before you do with confusion.
Set at this point confusion, hyper beam (filler emergency move that is not really used and only here for style points) sand attack, quick attack.
Literally the exact same as Morty - the sand attack part.
Same set as last time but shadow ball replaced quick attack.
Only time so far where Espeon doesn't just click 1 move to win without item set up, and that is fine because there are 5 other pokemon as an option for a reason and something must have surf at this point and should be used to deal with Steelix anyway.
If you really, really want to do beat her with Espeon there is a reason why Sand Attack is still in the moveset that is even more effective than it should be because of the awful accuracy of Steelix's moves. This is how you cheese the matchups you have no business winning, though that only really applies here and Karen's Houndoom, the latter of which you are better off using something else regardless.
Back to just using psychic move until everyone dies, something that is incredibly easy thanks to Pryce pokemon doing like no real damage to you.
Confusion got upgraded to psybeam before this battle because turns out team rocket is a great source of exp for a psychic pokemon. Rest of the set is the same, but that will change soon.
Sand Attack was nice while it lasted, but from now on it will be replaced with Reflect. Reflect on Gyarados and use 2 of the x item for special attack (not really different from using calm mind if Espeon had it and are super cheap too) then procceed to kill the rest of her team with the metronome boosted psybeams. Some healing was done in the set up phase because hey, Gyarados has bite.
The reason for Espeon having shadow ball is finally here. Item swapped to specs because you don't need anything else in this fight
Only real threat in this entire fight is Foretress exploding. Everything else should be ohkoed by psybeam. Item is still choice specs because you only need one move and will stay that way until Karen.
What if Chuck had more pokemon and still got destroyed by your current psychic move? This is exactly that fight.
Back to metronome, though Espeon is better sitting this one out. Umbreon is too bulky for it and can outskill you with confuse ray, Vileplume and Gengar are non threats regardless, Murkrow is a coin toss even with sand attack cheese if you still had it, Houndoom is theoretically doable with sand attack cheese if you still have it but your best move against is hyper beam that won't really do enough without boosts.
Pretty much the same exact strat as Clair with 1 full restore in the set up phase.
Final level for Espeon 47 thanks to all of its easy wins and a few hidden rare candies picked up along the way.
Ekans -----> F rank, it is that bad.
Probably the worst non joke/gimmick mon in the entire game. Only real utility this disgrace has in the entire run is shed skin allowing to outskill Morty's hypnosis and its access to Crunch as soon it evolves, but that is the only real positive when it does laughable damage otherwise thanks to its pathetic movepool, lack of real stab until sludge bomb that comes from its lower offensive stat anyway, and low attack stat. In every single fight there is not even a single time where you would go "yeah, I'm using Ekans/Arbok instead of anything remotely useful"
Except that is not how tier lists work. Being a worse version of something is always a reason for something to be ranked way lower, especially when it is something with the same availability as said superior option and when nobody would use as anything but as an hm slave by the average person that actually plays these games in a natural way. And yes, the latter is a valid reason when this post unironically has "b-but what if a casual sees this and they see a starter in the bottom ranks" as a reason for not dropping Meganium lower.
Espeon is B tier at best, your arguments are right... somewhat, however I don't consider acceptable time-wise biking half Johto all over again to get that happiness stuck at Morty's gym because you cannot progress without Surf. Also Morty is a joke against, Hell I PP stalled his Gengar with a level 7 Rattata with Tail Whip since the only moves that hits Normal types is Sucker Punch with 5 PP. If that Rattata would had a non-Normal or non-Fighting move, I would have won fast and easy against his Gengar.
In addition, doing that means that Espeon is going to be underleveled.
Also there is a chance that Espeon does not still have Psybeam (level 36) to face Pryce if you are not soloing it. However Pryce is a joke, so it does not matter a lot.
The main drawback of Espeon is Confusion at level 15 and Psybeam at 36, which hinders the fastest and cheapest source of happiness, gaining levels.
I know that the post is months old, but I am using the same method on my current run. I also did ALL trainers on the road to Olivine, Ecruteak and Rage of Fury while hiking with Eevee on my bag, not battling of course, in order to save future battling time while biking.
On my next run, I plan to do the opposite, letting Eevee to gain levels (with Exp Share got by trading it with Sr. Pokemon after Gyarados defeat) and letting to be Shadow Ball TM its main source of power when evolved until Psybeam at 36. Aside of Morty and Pryce which are a joke anyways. Espeon has no issues to defeat random trainers with Shadow Ball TM and Return/Headbutt against the rare Rattata/Noctowls. Even unstabed, Shadow Ball has 5 more power that STABed Confusion against neutral foes, 80 neutral unstabed base power from 130 Sp Attack is no joke.
I totally agree about Espeon not being S in any capacity, but I never really see Pryce as a joke. He looks harmless on paper until you realize he’s actually deceptively hard to kill even though he doesn’t kill you fast.
A lot of potential counters to Pryce generally fall into one of two categories: takes the Seel line but is beat by Piloswine (virtually all Electric types not named Lanturn) or both threaten each other making it hard to sweep (Golem, pretty much any Grass type). What does this mean for everything else?
Pryce is actually a huge pain when taken on without super effective moves, and the only safe mons against him are like…Heracross and Machamp, and I legit can’t think of much else that solos him (Lanturn would likely be beat by Piloswine if Seel Icy Winds it). Seel generally deters a lot of setup strats with Icy Wind leaving you easy pickings for his other two mons when you are slower.
Dewgong is perhaps public enemy number 3 in terms of gym mons that are awful to kill (the others being the cow and KINGDRA OF DEATH). Seriously, if you can’t 2HKO Dewgong (a very real possibility considering we prompt you toward Specs and Sludge Bomb first) Rest can and will stall you out, and Thick Fat renders the strats most use to face roll bosses (Specs Fire Blast and Surf though that’s moreso Dewgong’s typing) almost useless. Piloswine isn’t horrible per se, but it’s hard to wall and if Snow Cloak is up it just got a lot more painful. Mud Bomb also has 50% accuracy drops which is very bad with Snow Cloak being a thing. Most Specs users can blow past this but will as stated generally lose to Dewgong in exhange.
While not the hardest boss in Johto, I would consider Pryce significantly harder than both Jasmine (Specs Surf or Fire Blast from almost anything laughs at her) and Chuck (less difficulty and moreso “will Chuck troll you with Double Team and Hypnosis?” and unlike Pryce who can be threatening with RNG, Primeape is frail so it’s really your entire team versus a Poliwrath, which has plenty of safe and exploitable weaknesses without being threatened back).
Pryce is actually a huge pain when taken on without super effective moves, and the only safe mons against him are like…Heracross and Machamp, and I legit can’t think of much else that solos him (Lanturn would likely be beat by Piloswine if Seel Icy Winds it). Seel generally deters a lot of setup strats with Icy Wind leaving you easy pickings for his other two mons when you are slower.
Well, you can use a death fodder to remove the loss of Speed when defeated, e.g. using the typical level 3 Pidgey with Fly or using the Switch option.
Yep, you are right about Dewgong's bulkiness. My level 26 Espeon 4KOed level 30 Seel with Confusion, so I expected a loss against Dewgong (even a loss against Seel) using Espeon. As I said before, Espeon due to the Confusion learning constraint, it is likely underleveled. However you can use cheap moves such as Rock Smash to reduce Defense to Dewgong in order to achieve the 2KO, which has to wait until Blackthorn to be removed. I say Rock Smash due to be learned by a lot of things in a pinch.
Luckily I had a Meganium which soloed Pryce with Razor Leaf, maybe it is the only moment in which soloes an important Johto trainer and I underrated him.
Well, you can use a death fodder to remove the loss of Speed when defeated, e.g. using the typical level 3 Pidgey with Fly or using the Switch option.
Yep, you are right about Dewgong's bulkiness. My level 26 Espeon 4KOed level 30 Seel with Confusion, so I expected a loss against Dewgong (even a loss against Seel) using Espeon. As I said before, Espeon due to the Confusion learning constraint, it is likely underleveled. However you can use cheap moves such as Rock Smash to reduce Defense to Dewgong in order to achieve the 2KO, which has to wait until Blackthorn to be removed. I say Rock Smash due to be learned by a lot of things in a pinch.
Luckily I had a Meganium which soloed Pryce with Razor Leaf, maybe it is the only moment in which soloes an important Johto trainer and I underrated him.
Was the Espeon under Specs? I would assume it was. We also tend to not switch out if we can avoid it (a good example of switching out is to reapply Intimidate on a new mon, though this is generally to check to see if you can accomplish a sweep) It resets the test in a way that any stat modifications that negatively affect you are now null and void. Technically it’s no longer considered a sweep by this logic but I digress. Agreed with points above. Pryce isn’t a joke. I would say Morty really isn’t either but compared to Pryce he is.
Morty looks scary on paper but more often than not his Ai thinks “ah yes let me Mean Look you rather ineffectively.”
Hypnosis sucks but his mons are mega frail, so if you outspeed and hit him SE it’s gonna almost OHKO. Also normals and psychic types (good choices in this game in general) counter him easily, and even without that there’s random stuff with Bite like Crobat and Croconaw. Gengar hurts but almost never uses Shadow Ball from my experience.
Also when Qwilfish can sweep Morty I don’t consider him that bad lol
I wouldn't call either Morty or Pryce a joke, even if the former has some checks and counters.
Morty's problem comes from the fact that if you are slower, you are at the mercy of his AI and RNG. You will get put to sleep, then Cursed, then whatever next they decide to do. If you are faster, you are most likely KOing most things bar Gengar. He does have quite the amount of checks and counters, such as Tauros, Miltank, Furret, Raticate, Kadabra, Espeon, Mankey, Girafarig, Noctowl, etc. (though not all of them sweep due to Gengar)
Pryce, I am not gonna dive much into him because other people have already explained, but beyond Meganium and the level 51 Gyarados, I cannot think of anything that outright sweeps him.
re: Espeon, I have said it in the past, but it should be C-tier, in my opinion. Happiness evolution is already bad as it is, but evolving it before level 15 (or at level 15) is even worse. No Confusion means it is significantly worse against Morty and Chuck and it will certainly take a toll on its performance against Team Rocket. I cannot see it in B-tier alongside Pokemon like Girafarig and Kadabra (and they are fine in B) which are objectively better by a tier at worst, unless you want to argue that both of those should rise to A (both have had some arguments for A in the past, but I personally think they are fine at B).
As I said, I PP stalled Gengar by using a level 7 Rattata because the only move that can harm it is Sucker Punch with is outstalled by using Tail Whip. Not efficient but it is a possibility. Also you can use a Girafarig, stall PP from Sucker Punch with Agility and sweep (if Girafarig has Early Bird should be an absolute joke)
What about defeating Morty, going to Lake of Fury, battle Red Gyarados, get Red Scale, go to Mr Pokemon, get Exp Share and giving it to Eevee? When Eevee has evolved, give it the TM Shadow Ball until it learns Psybeam at 36.
With Morty defeated, the only battle that requires Psybeam is Chuck. You can win the rest, bar Pryce and maybe Executive Ariana, with Shadow Ball. Headbutt/Return against the few Normal types such as Rattata.
Espeon is one of those hard-to-rank pokemon which is a pain to get but performs really well.
Comparing it to the current B list pokemon I'd say Kadabra and Girafarig perform similarly, are available earlier and easier so no chance of it being higher than them.
I'd argue Kadabra should be A if I could be bothered tbf.
Espeon is fine in C imo. Regarding Morty though just don't evolve it yet lol, Normal types trivialise the battle and partaking in an "important" battle boosts friendship (I think this is a thing in Gen 4 right?)
Regarding Morty though just don't evolve it yet lol, Normal types trivialise the battle and partaking in an "important" battle boosts friendship (I think this is a thing in Gen 4 right?)
yes, your whole party gets happiness if you fight a Gym Leader / E4 member / Champion
also, yeah, I am not sure what Exp. Share is gonna accomplish, at least from what I read. Exploring an Espeon without Confusion is certainly interesting, so I am gonna look forward to that.
yes, your whole party gets happiness if you fight a Gym Leader / E4 member / Champion
also, yeah, I am not sure what Exp. Share is gonna accomplish, at least from what I read. Exploring an Espeon without Confusion is certainly interesting, so I am gonna look forward to that.
Leveling up is the fastest and cheaper method to increase happiness, it increases happiness with the same happiness points as vitamins do. Biking sucks in comparaison.
So, take Eevee from Bill, equip it with Soothe Bell, go to the hair cutter siblings, buy and apply as many vitamins as possible, and then, when battled Red Gyarados, get Exp Share from Mr Pokemon (traded with Red Scale from Gyara) and equip to it.
Sadly Eevee cannot carry Exp Share and Soothe Bell at the same time.
However for the first Eevee levels could be worth to use the trick of showing Eevee holding Soothe Bell and switch to a stronger party mon instead of Exp Share.
I am checking that X Sp Att, X Sp Def and X Speed, each one costs 350 and vitamins cost 9800, thus for each vitamin you have 28 of this items.
If the happiness is between 100 to 199, vitamins give +3 and this items give +1 (x1.5 with Soothe Bell however I don't know how Soothe Bell manages decimals, apparently rounds the numbers down) Out of slowliness and insanity to use these items repeately to increase happiness, it could be a way to raise happiness. Very bored should be someone in order to try this out. I'd rather bike all the time and buy vitamins. However you can use these items if you get them on the wild or if you don't have enough money for vitamins.
Also a note, refuse to let the ingame mother to get the savings from the player in order to get more money for vitamins.
Is it even worth let the mother get the savings for this thread purposes? Maybe to get the resistance berries such as Shuca and Yache to use them for Natural Gift pseudo-gimmicks since you get the TM at Goldenrod Commercial Store or getting Moon Stone early...
Leveling up is the fastest and cheaper method to increase happiness, it increases happiness with the same happiness points as vitamins do. Biking sucks in comparaison.
So, take Eevee from Bill, equip it with Soothe Bell, go to the hair cutter siblings, buy and apply as many vitamins as possible, and then, when battled Red Gyarados, get Exp Share from Mr Pokemon (traded with Red Scale from Gyara) and equip to it.
Sadly Eevee cannot carry Exp Share and Soothe Bell at the same time.
However for the first Eevee levels could be worth to use the trick of showing Eevee holding Soothe Bell and switch to a stronger party mon instead of Exp Share.
I am checking that X Sp Att, X Sp Def and X Speed, each one costs 350 and vitamins cost 9800, thus for each vitamin you have 28 of this items.
If the happiness is between 100 to 199, vitamins give +3 and this items give +1 (x1.5 with Soothe Bell however I don't know how Soothe Bell manages decimals, apparently rounds the numbers down) Out of slowliness and insanity to use these items repeately to increase happiness, it could be a way to raise happiness. Very bored should be someone in order to try this out. I'd rather bike all the time and buy vitamins. However you can use these items if you get them on the wild or if you don't have enough money for vitamins.
Also a note, refuse to let the ingame mother to get the savings from the player in order to get more money for vitamins.
Is it even worth let the mother get the savings for this thread purposes? Maybe to get the resistance berries such as Shuca and Yache to use them for Natural Gift pseudo-gimmicks since you get the TM at Goldenrod Commercial Store or getting Moon Stone early...
Is it even worth let the mother get the savings for this thread purposes? Maybe to get the resistance berries such as Shuca and Yache to use them for Natural Gift pseudo-gimmicks since you get the TM at Goldenrod Commercial Store or getting Moon Stone early...
Outside of incredibly niche cases that I cannot even think of, it's not really assumed afaik. I know that Drums once used burned Scarf Machamp, but that's about it. I am not sure when you actually get the Moon Stone (you get an item once per 10k, so perhaps once you get to 40k or similar, but again, unsure), but if it's early, only the Nidos would be affected (Jigglypuff and Clefairy come at a point where you can just take the Ruins of Alph one)
As for your method, this reminds me of some alternative for evolving Espeon, albeit I am not sure if it would work. Basically, you get a haircut, set your clock to 23:58 or something, exit the area, then let the clock roll and repeat. As I said, not sure if it would work, but I remember using this trick on Kurt years ago. It is also very inefficient, tedious, and maybe costly too, but oh well, there's a reason why I dislike HGSS Espeon
I fully agree. I see it more useful evolving it latter in order to gain levels with Exp Share, leveling up provides a good source of happiness.
Specs Shadow Ball hits like a truck so the lack of Confusion should not be much an issue while waiting to Psybeam. Also Swift is at 29 while being Espeon, Swift sucks but provides good coverage against Normal types with the lack of Confusion and it is useful against Double Team / Minimize foes.
I am planning a second run on a few weeks evolving Eevee post-Confusion to see its performance. However Espeon is not worth it itself unless you really like it or want a fast hard hitter not being one of the typical ones. Girafarig has a better performance overall since it is ready to use after caught (you can even use it to battle Morty)
BTW I am using Furret too and it is better than expected due to be a great source of TMs. However as a Sentret sucks a lot. Suprisingly, Sentret is slow as hell. It had issues too to defeat Bellsprouts from the Bellsprout Tower.
Jasmine is defeated easily with Dig against Magnemites and Surf against Steelix. Why the heck Furret can learn Blizzard and Thunder but not Fire Blast?
I will do a review of the performance of the team members on some days.
It is a shame that the TM for Safeguard is not sold on Goldenrod, Meganium could have a somewhat easy time against Jasmine with Petal Dance and avoiding Thunder waves. Ok, I am checking that Safeguard does not prevent Petal Dance confusion...
At low happiness X items gives +1 happiness, so the most cost efficient thing to do is buy 30 X Attacks, fish up a Magikarp and use them all (even when they have no effect) to go from the initial 70 to 100 happiness (when X items stop contributing to happiness) then start using the haircuts and vitamins (which still work at higher happiness). That's 700 for 1 happiness vs 9800 for 5.
At low happiness X items gives +1 happiness, so the most cost efficient thing to do is buy 30 X Attacks, fish up a Magikarp and use them all (even when they have no effect) to go from the initial 70 to 100 happiness (when X items stop contributing to happiness) then start using the haircuts and vitamins (which still work at higher happiness). That's 700 for 1 happiness vs 9800 for 5.
No one is denying that, but could it be too much time consuming?
Also, your logic is somewhat flawed, at start it is better to use vitamins at first and level up because they give more happiness points. On the 199 to 220 range better use haircut since the happiness points they give is always constant and other methods.
Actually I am amazed how leveling up gives a lot of happiness on low happiness levels.
I provide a table from Bulbapedia about the methods of raising happiness mechanics at IV Gen and I shadowed the unusable ones on that point of the game. I also removed EV reducing berries because you don't get them until Kanto and learning TM and HM because they provide little for the effort spent. (If the berries would be obtainable in Johto they will be the best non one per day source by far)
Remember Soothe Bell multiplies per 1.5 (apparently rounded down)
Eevee starts from 70 happiness. If you breed it, it starts at 120 when hatched, Eevee takes around 9180 steps to hatch, plus getting a Ditto since Eevee is 87.5 male, half steps if you have a Magmar/Slugma in the party because Flame Body/Magma Armor, Is it worth all the hassle to breed it for the increased happiness? For me, the answer is not.
†: Berries affected include Pomeg Berry, Kelpsy Berry, Qualot Berry, Hondew Berry, Grepa Berry, and Tamato Berry (No. 21-26)
††: Vitamins affected include HP Up, Protein, Iron, Calcium, Zinc, Carbos, PP Up, PP Max, and Rare Candy
†††: Battle items affected include X Attack, X Defense, X Speed, X Sp. Atk, X Sp. Def, X Accuracy, Dire Hit, and Guard Spec.
The x items do nothing after 99 happiness. But they're a cheap way of getting those first 29 points, far more cost effective than vitamins. It takes a few minutes to spam the x items (hell do it in the Morty fight whilst pp stalling to be efficient!) and saves quite a lot of money.
It also helps you to get happiness up at a lower level to make the most of the evolved learn set.
The x items do nothing after 99 happiness. But they're a cheap way of getting those first 29 points, far more cost effective than vitamins. It takes a few minutes to spam the x items (hell do it in the Morty fight whilst pp stalling to be efficient!) and saves quite a lot of money.
It also helps you to get happiness up at a lower level to make the most of the evolved learn set.
According to the source I provided, X items do nothing after 199 happiness
The evolved set is not that relevant, you have at level 15 Confusion, which could be critical, and after that, the next useful (read this as... not suck a lot) move is Swift at 29.
Surprised we are still talking about Espeon, honestly even if you waste a metric ton of time to evolve it ASAP and get it Confusion...you still have a slightly worse Alakazam that does not learn Focus Blast, does not get Psychic by the Elite 4, and requires a lot of babying. Honestly from my experience in game, I would say that besides being outclassed by Zam, it is outclassed by Kadabra, Slowtwins, and Girafarig. I guess it's better than Hypno and Exeggcute, but that is a low bar for a Psychic type attacker.
Honestly though while we are discussing Psychics, Girafarig for A tier? From my memory, it never really felt like dead weight in any fight save Jasmine. I unironically think I would say that it is closer to A than Mareep is.
Surprised we are still talking about Espeon, honestly even if you waste a metric ton of time to evolve it ASAP and get it Confusion...you still have a slightly worse Alakazam that does not learn Focus Blast, does not get Psychic by the Elite 4, and requires a lot of babying. Honestly from my experience in game, I would say that besides being outclassed by Zam, it is outclassed by Kadabra, Slowtwins, and Girafarig. I guess it's better than Hypno and Exeggcute, but that is a low bar for a Psychic type attacker.
Honestly though while we are discussing Psychics, Girafarig for A tier? From my memory, it never really felt like dead weight in any fight save Jasmine. I unironically think I would say that it is closer to A than Mareep is.
It’s not going to A tier (Girafarig). It’s been placed in B which is a good fit for it. While it’s a good pick, it does suffer from waning power and does struggle against the E4. Another issue it has is that it’s really only used against things it would be super effective on. The stats aren’t the greatest either but it’s just enough to be in B.
Moving onto Espeon. I would like talks to tone down a bit on it. While I appreciate the enthusiasm, I believe it’s beginning to head into circles.
And last but not least, I’m making the last placements for this thread on Saturday/Sunday. I now I said today but IRL takes precedence.
It’s not going to A tier (Girafarig). It’s been placed in B which is a good fit for it. While it’s a good pick, it does suffer from waning power and does struggle against the E4. Another issue it has is that it’s really only used against things it would be super effective on. The stats aren’t the greatest either but it’s just enough to be in B.
After Goldenrod it means that it is super effective against half of the rest of the Johto. Ok, does not fare well against Pryce, Jasmine and Clair, but has a lot of Team Rocket members, Morty and Chuck to receive tons of exp. Psybeam at 19, Psychic at 37. Strength and Return by STAB in the rare cases you need them. Fast enough. Wins against Will (Shadow Ball), Koga, Bruno and 2 mons of Karen.
Also Girafarig needs zero babying to be ready to use and has a great encounter rate.
I ran Girafarig on a run two years ago and amazed me its performance during Johto (I stopped playing after winning the E4)
Even I doubt Technician Scyther and Steelix should be A instead of Girafarig. Technician Scyther is not easy to encounter it and Steelix due to the need of farming the evolutionary item at Pokeathlon.
It’s not going to A tier (Girafarig). It’s been placed in B which is a good fit for it. While it’s a good pick, it does suffer from waning power and does struggle against the E4. Another issue it has is that it’s really only used against things it would be super effective on. The stats aren’t the greatest either but it’s just enough to be in B.
Moving onto Espeon. I would like talks to tone down a bit on it. While I appreciate the enthusiasm, I believe it’s beginning to head into circles.
And last but not least, I’m making the last placements for this thread on Saturday/Sunday. I now I said today but IRL takes precedence.
Specs Shadow Ball let’s it do well vs Will, and Koga and Bruno are both good MUs. Karen and Lance are bad mus, but Lance is a bad MU towards like 95% of mons used. The only fights where it felt like it was losing steam were Clair and Lance, but both of those are just hard fights and most things struggle. When having it start to truly fall off against bosses that other A rankers can also struggle while having a strong matchup against 3:5 of the elite 4 doesn’t feel to me like it’s falling off.
Honestly, it’s performance seems closer to most things in A tier than B.
Also of note, Gastly sticks out as something that imo should be S, I’ll post some logs I took a while back if I have to, but Gengar is so solid and legit wrecks everything with specs and it’s “bad” period isn’t even bad.
