Pokémon X & Y In-game Tier List Discussion

[Banryu]

Butterfree and Vivillon aren't that bad, and early Sleep Powder is always useful. In HG I kept Butterfree with me up 'till the E4, and he ended up soloing Claire's Kingdra. From what I hear, people have had similar experiences with Vivillon, who is basically almost just a better (or more specialized anyway) Butterfree.

As for Combee, yeah the whole male/female rate certainly doesn't help. Even when I did manage to get a female it was a pain to raise, and didn't really even do that well as Vespiquen either. It can toxic stall, but that's pretty slow and boring for in-game runs and it doesn't really get much else. Combee is a pretty easy F-tier, Vespiquen is E-tier tops.

 

[DHR-107]

Would like to try and clear out some starting from Route 2:

Butterfree: See Breedrill but Confusion is nice for the first gym. E/F Tier
Vivillon: See Butterfree E/F Tier

Are you high? Vivi and Butterfree are actually really, really great. Butterfree loses out on Hurricane, but gets Sleep Powder almost instantly, and Silver Wind a whole bunch of levels before Vivi gets Bug Buzz. I haven't tried Butterfree out yet (I used Vivi on my first game), but the only down side I see for it compared to Vivi is being much slower (and not getting Infestation).

Also: Combee is going to be low tier because of the gender issues (and an appalling moveset). I wonder if it would be worth tiering them diffrently because if you got super lucky and got a female Combee, Vespiquen could be reasonable?

 

[Its_A_Random]

Considering Venoshock nukes down the 6th Gym... uh... I'm really failing to see how waiting a little while longer for Petal Dance is such a big deal.

Not exactly. Mawile pretty much walls Roselia given it has a Steel-typing, but I guess if you have Toxic Spikes, you could just set up on it, though that is not a very efficient strategy in itself. Mr. Mime has SE STAB in the form of Psychic, giving it something to watch out for, but I guess you could OHKO it if you are strong enough/you have poisoned it already. Also beware Light Screen. Sylveon can easily take special hits, but it... cannot do much back...

Furthermore, Giga Drain gives it something many Pokemon don't have around its tier - sustainability. That's really hard to match even in the earlier parts of the game up to late game. It having to wait for Petal Dance when it has Giga Drain is fairly trivial. Again - consider that even Charmander / Charmeleon has a weird rut around it for a short time before they become "nukes" and they require a Mega Evolution to pull it off.

I guess that is fair given it -does- have Base 100 Sp. Attack after all before evolution.

Also:

Eviolite easily patches that issue, and even without it I didn't see much that really OHKOed it beforehand unless it was something like... birds... which you avoid

My issue with Eviolite, although very minor & insignificant, mainly comes down to the competition, like how many NFE's do you have at that point, & which one needs it the most. I guess it really helps Roselia out though.

---

Would like to try and clear out some starting from Route 2:

Linoone: Decent HM slave (3 HMs in Cut, Surf and Strength), Pick Up can be helpful, levels pretty quickly, decent speed but not much else, average typing C/D/E Tier

Probably more D than anything. When I used it, it was garbage & I ditched it early, but it seems like a D-Tier Pokémon to me.

Beedrill: Slow, poor typing, weak stats. Levels quickly though but should be dropped when something better comes along E/F Tier
Butterfree: See Breedrill but Confusion is nice for the first gym. E/F Tier

I think you misunderstand what F-Tier means: Basically it is a tier reserved for those that are -absolutely- garbage in-game, & should never be considered for a serious run. Even if those two were bad, I would never consider them F-Tier material. Also Butterfree is way better than that lol. 97.5% Sleep Powder is very reliable, its speed is decent, though middling, & an early final evolution is normally a good thing to have. These two are better than E-Tier imo.

Pidgeot: Decently fast, OK level up but overall weaker and slower to Talonflame who has better typing too. But a decent flying type which can help with 3 gyms. D/E Tier

We do not decide the tiering of one Pokémon based on its performance relative to another Pokémon. It does not matter if Pokémon X does the same thing better than Pokémon Y; if both are good enough for the same tier, they will be placed as such. (e.g. Pansear should be E-Tier, because Charmander does its job way better)

Diggersby: Levels fast, evolves early, decent typing with a good movepool. Terribly slow and weak though without Huge Power. D/E Tier

It is not as bad as you are making it out to be. Its lack of power late-game is an issue, but it has a good typing, a good movepool, comes at the start, Pickup is always good, & it also has okay bulk as well. I would probably put it around C-Tier or D-Tier.

Vivillon: See Butterfree E/F Tier

No, just no. It is A-Tier for a reason. Two solid abilities, great sweeping potential, & pretty much amazing early-mid game. It drops off a bit near the end, but it is still okay. A solid A-Tier Pokémon. There is no way it is going to be any lower than B-Tier.

Please come up with more coherent arguments next time instead of saying something like "see Butterfree" (Even better, use them).

---

Also I am very hesitant to put Combee in F-Tier (Assuming Female). It is not completely useless, you get some useful coverage, some sustainability, etc. It also comes early as well! It might be bad, but it is definitely not F-Tier useless lol.

EDIT: Sorry for the excessive quoting lol... v_v

DOUBLE EDIT: Combee without evolution may be considered for a different entry, though if I do that, it is definitely going to be automatically placed in F-Tier, since it definitely fits the bill lol.

 

[Kappaten]

I was lucky enough to get a female combee my first time through, and I have to say I was pretty underwhelmed. Vespiquen was great for about 10-15 levels, and then everything else caught up to her. Having the rock gym in her way was not favorable, either. If she got Healing Order earlier, she'd be better, but I'd stick her at around a C.

 

[Lucchini]

Considering Venoshock nukes down the 6th Gym... uh... I'm really failing to see how waiting a little while longer for Petal Dance is such a big deal.

Venoshock does nothing to Mawile whereas Mr. Mime goes first and has a SE Psychic. Putting up Toxic Spikes to have a damage increase against Sylveon is a good enough strat for the latter though.

Furthermore, Giga Drain gives it something many Pokemon don't have around its tier - sustainability. That's really hard to match even in the earlier parts of the game up to late game. It having to wait for Petal Dance when it has Giga Drain is fairly trivial. Again - consider that even Charmander / Charmeleon has a weird rut around it for a short time before they become "nukes" and they require a Mega Evolution to pull it off.

Honedge, Azumarill and Venusaur are all arguably more durable, and don't need Giga Drain's HP restoration to continuously stay alive. I agree that it's Roselia's selling point, though.

Eviolite easily patches that issue, and even without it I didn't see much that really OHKOed it beforehand unless it was something like... birds... which you avoid.

Fliers are a very common ingame enemy type however, and besides that you also have fire-types, ice-types, psychic-types, all threatening your Roselia. "Just keep it away from X" is good enough logic, but a Pokemon that ends up in S tier is the closest to being able to solo the game and do so efficiently. There's no doubt that Roselia fills a niche in a team and acts it out impeccably, but that's why she is in A tier.

 

[Tomy]

"Just keep it away from X" is good enough logic, but a Pokemon that ends up in S tier is the closest to being able to solo the game and do so efficiently. There's no doubt that Roselia fills a niche in a team and acts it out impeccably, but that's why she is in A tier.

A Pokemon soloing the game is a thing, being put in S-tier is another. For example B2W2 Magnemite is clearly S-tier material and vs Clay, mmh...
I haven't used Roserade, but S-tier Pokemon doesn't mean perfect. S-tier Pokemon can have a few flaws, however easily overlooked when compared with their strenghts.

Would like to try and clear out some starting from Route 2:

Vivillon: See Butterfree E/F Tier

What the...Vivillon E/F tier? It has another options beside the mighty Tackle.

 

[Colonel M]

I realized Bulbasaur was A-tier, so A-tier Budew is justified. Slightly.

I think the issue is S-Tier is hard to really determine; likely because a lot of us experienced playthroughs with EXP Share or off. When it's off, I actually think Honedge does stand a slight chance at S, but I really need to buy Y anyway so maybe I'll do a playthrough with Aerodactyl too.

 

[Lucchini]

I personally feel it would make more sense to move Vivillion a little bit down, say, to the same tier as Froakie (who I found to be much better on my first playthrough). It's a burden for the team until level 12, moreso than Magikarp in this game (since you catch one 5 levels before its evolution), and once it does evolve it's not exactly significantly stronger than your starter's second tier form. My Vivillion was underlevelled for a while after evolving, which should signify that it doesn't have the best matchups to switch into stuff (and it never does really, even fighting-types whose STABS it resists the best love packing rock-type moves).

Later on, it's actually OHKO'd by a lot of heavy hitters, Victory Road Alakazam being one example. And I mean precisely that, it can't handle taking a strong STAB from something.

Setting up on anything requires both Sleep Powder and Compoundeyes (its saving grace really), and in many battles where you wish you'd like Vivillion to set up you might discover it can't safely switch unto anything and, if it's luckily to try, the target wakes up too soon. It's simply not reliable. In the last run I did, nothing in my team could really take on Gardevoir (her coverage moves always hit something in my team super-effectively) so naturally I wanted Vivillion to set up at some point and there wasn't one - Gourgeist seemed like a good victim, but it can't be slept due to being a grass-type, plus it practices the surprisingly deadly Trick or Treat + Phantom Force combo (I was switching out to my lv. 3 Bunnelby, no kidding).

It's simply not good enough for A tier.

If you want a good setup sweeper, go with Gyarados (L44 Dragon Dance). It even has a good earlygame with Rock Smash, Bulldoze and Bite.

 

[Codraroll]

I wouldn't put Beedrill in E tier, and certainly not F. For at least half the game, it's able to pull its weight, and Poison Jab and Twineedle/Pin Missile (which got a buff this gen) work surprisingly well with it. I'm not saying it's a super star by any measure, but D tier would be a suitable place to put it.

 

[Banryu]

I think Lucchini and Random make a pretty solid defense for Budew in A-tier.

Also I am very hesitant to put Combee in F-Tier (Assuming Female). It is not completely useless, you get some useful coverage, some sustainability, etc. It also comes early as well! It might be bad, but it is definitely not F-Tier useless lol.

DOUBLE EDIT: Combee without evolution may be considered for a different entry, though if I do that, it is definitely going to be automatically placed in F-Tier, since it definitely fits the bill lol.

In that case, perhaps Combee would be more of an E-tier (assuming that if they're counted separately, Vespiquen is about a D-tier and male combee is of course F-tier, and accounting for the fact that female combee is relatively rare). Personally, I didn't find Vespiquen to be that great in battle, though I suppose it does get some decent TM and levelup moves (Heal Order/Roost is nice and Attack Order is a really good move). Its coverage is limited, though.
On the plus side it can be used for utility with moves like Sweet Scent and Thief, which is mainly what I run it for.

 

[Lucchini]

Why should a male Combee deserve a separate entry? If you catch one, make sure it's female. That's a lot of Combees to catch on average before you get one, but what can you do (Sylveon needs even more time to even exist).

I mean, we're not tiering non-Huge Power Azurills so why take vastly inferior "builds" into account. This difficulty should be accounted for in a Pokemon's availability though alongside factors such as catch rate and encounter rate.

 

[Colonel M]

How about a random one?

Magneton / zone?

It comes roughly before the 6th / 7th gym depending if you want to detour for it (it's guaranteed by Gym 7 at least). Pretty much guaranteed Thunderbolt via TM and Flash Cannon, though also a TM, is available very shortly (Level 39 and the max level it can be caught is 38). Rare Candy in Route 13 for Magnezone + Flash Cannon if you want even. For setup moves Magneton has Charge Beam and it can at least pull off Hidden Power random if it wants.

Gym coverage:

6th - Outstanding. It resists everything thrown at it.
7th - Should crush this gym pretty easily since it resists a lot of the things thrown at it and has STAB Thunderbolt to shut down Slowking / Sigilyph.
8th - Again, should be a breeze. Cyrognal shouldn't even be a major issue despite the high SpD. Even if it is, you can use a physical attack to decent effect. It hits Avalugg on its weaker spectrum, too.

E4:

Malva - probably a bad idea. Magnezone might be able to tank a Talonflame Flare Blitz, but it's doubtful.
Wikstrom - does decently. Nothing should be able to really stop it IIRC. Maybe Aegislash. I don't think Scizor had BB / Superpower.
Drasna - should do okay.
Siebold - should absolutely crush him.
Diantha - you'll likely struggle on Gourgeist and Goodra. Aside from that, everything should be taken down.

Adding that Magneton has good durability with its typing, powerful SpA, modest Speed (70 is okay at least), and you have a pretty powerful in-game Pokemon at your disposal.

I would say B at absolute worst. It has shoddy performance against the E4 and some of Team Flare, but it gets the job done just about everywhere else.

======

Aerodactyl

So for starters it comes with Bite / Roar / Agility / Scary Face. Heh, really lame. One thing that helps its mediocre earlygame is Rock Tomb is right after the second gym. And then in Connecting Cave we get Aerial Ace. So two STABs and we're pretty much rocking. Hone Claws can be used for boosting and Bulldoze is available pretty early (IIRC). This means that Aerodactyl has a pretty decent amount of coverage. Granted the moves are rather weak in base power, but remember that Aerodactyl has base 105 Attack - a very difficult thing to match.

But it gets better.

IIRC, Aerodactyl's Mega Stone is available before you even beat the E4. I want to say that it's available after you rescue the Scientist, but you probably won't be able to Mega Evolve until after Lucario. And if that is the case... you have a deadly force in your hands. Suddenly the fourth gym is crushed, you have Bulldoze / Rock Slide to handle 2/3 of the Electric-gym's threats, and then it does... okay against the 6th gym (let's be honest they're all physically frail or weak to Bulldoze in Mawile's case). By the 7th Gym Crunch should be well at your disposal and you can go back for the Elemental Fangs to help Aerodactyl out. The 8th Gym should be in your favor barring maybe Avalugg.

Team Flare shouldn't be too hard for Aerodactyl. Most are weak to its STAB moves alone, and the rest are covered with Bulldoze / EQ when it is available.

The E4 is where things get... dicey. It definitely handles Malva, but the rest are rather dicey due to carrying moves Aerodactyl doesn't like eating. Still, Tough Claws helps boost Dragon Claw and elemental fangs. And Diantha isn't even bad for Aerodactyl as a Mega.

While a lot of this is current theorymon, I actually would argue A Tier for it, and... while shocking, S if Mega Evolution is available that early.

 

[Banryu]

I worry that Aerodactyl might be too frail for S, but there's no denying that power and how early it comes. A-tier seems pretty solid for both Zone and Aero IMO.

 

[Lucchini]

Magneton's E4 matchups seem a bit off. Against Wikstrom, there's Probopass with Earth Power (this thing actually hurts quite a bit when you're at a level disadvantage) and Aegislash you never want to try taking on because of Sacred Sword. Siebold: Gyarados is likely faster and packs Earthquake, while Barbaracle could be bulky enough to take a Thunderbolt and hit back with Cross Chop (depends on sp. atk. IVs/nature and whether you evolve your Magneton).

I guess a full HP Magneton w/ Sturdy can always take nearly any otherwise KOing attack, but even then it's a question of what it's capable to do. Against Drasna, I just don't see any potential. Even something like Altaria can drive you mad with Sing (and Cotton Guard for physical attacks), so it's not such a good matchup at all and anything that would go first and have a SE Ice Beam or Moonblast or whatever would be preferred. I'm not kidding, my Azumarill took like 15 turns to KO that Altaria on my recent run.

Also, against Clemont, Rock Tomb is probably not strong enough to OHKO Emolga (makes no contact) and his Magneton does have Sturdy (which is why Charizard X has the perfect matchup in that gym - no weakness to steel or electric), so that's not really Aerodactyl's best gym.

BTW I'm training an Aerodactyl on my current efficiency run. Forgot Aerodactylite though I think, lol, might want to track back and retrieve it.

My party:

Chespin / Pikachu / Abra / Snorlax / Aerodactyl / (Lapras)

I just got a Thunderstone; no clue if I should use it. Pikachu's offence takes a big hit if it evolves (mine has a Light Ball, and when I do my write-up I'll try to make my case that it's not inefficient to get + is worth one's time) though speed and defensive stats receive a good boost. One really amazing thing Pikachu has going for him is how much he OHKOs with Return. Return!

 

[Its_A_Random]

We were theorymonning Aerodactyl before this thread was created on IRC, & I would not be surprised (once someone tests it for real) that it could be somewhere in the vicinity of A-Tier or S-Tier. Mega Evolution early on, a physical sweeper build with excellent coverage, great Gym Matchups, & with Mega Evolution, it could be a powerful disc one nuke (or disc two), especially with such raw coverage. I would not be the least bit surprised.

Also Lucchini, just nitpicking, but Clemont's Emolga is also very frail, so I would not be surprised if Rock Tomb OHKOes it, but I guess it depends on your power & whatnot.

 

[Lucchini]

On the theory level, one thing that can be used as an argument against Aerodactyl being in A/S is the rarity of finding Old Amber via Rock Smash. I took 10 or so minutes to get mine, which is pretty much comparable to catching any other Pokemon in the wild (at times you take longer if you're looking for a specific nature or get crap nature/IVs). It's also easy to reset for right stats when you send the fossil.

Not sure just what the percentage of finding the Old Amber is, though. I got like 5 Hard Stones from the smashing and many pointless, annoying encounters against Pokemon I didn't care to either catch or fight for exp.

On a more practical level, I should offer my five cents pretty soon to add to what we already have.

 

[Colonel M]

Magneton's E4 matchups seem a bit off. Against Wikstrom, there's Probopass with Earth Power (this thing actually hurts quite a bit when you're at a level disadvantage) and Aegislash you never want to try taking on because of Sacred Sword. Siebold: Gyarados is likely faster and packs Earthquake, while Barbaracle could be bulky enough to take a Thunderbolt and hit back with Cross Chop (depends on sp. atk. IVs/nature and whether you evolve your Magneton).

Like you mentioned, Sturdy Magneton / zone should be able to stomach the very dangerous moves. Cross Chop shouldn't be a big deal as a Magnezone, but of course the Speed disadvantage is pretty bad when you use it. I also mentioned that Wikstrom it is a little shoddy. I didn't know about Probopass with Earth Power to be fair, but I did suspect it might have something (though in a double Sturdy war Magneton wins... it also likely isn't 2HKOing with even Thunder).

Against Drasna, I just don't see any potential. Even something like Altaria can drive you mad with Sing (and Cotton Guard for physical attacks), so it's not such a good matchup at all and anything that would go first and have a SE Ice Beam or Moonblast or whatever would be preferred. I'm not kidding, my Azumarill took like 15 turns to KO that Altaria on my recent run.

I'm not sure how it becomes a huge threat, but fair enough.

Also, against Clemont, Rock Tomb is probably not strong enough to OHKO Emolga (makes no contact) and his Magneton does have Sturdy (which is why Charizard X has the perfect matchup in that gym - no weakness to steel or electric), so that's not really Aerodactyl's best gym.

It makes no contact, but remember your Atk jumps from 105 to 135. I highly doubt that Aerodactyl is missing a OHKO on Emolga which has base 55 HP | 60 Def. And I actually wondered if Bulldoze could one shot Heliolisk, but to be fair there is no STAB from Bulldoze nor Tough Claws contact. Still, considering it can at least dent that gym is a testament to how beastly it is.

On the theory level, one thing that can be used as an argument against Aerodactyl being in A/S is the rarity of finding Old Amber via Rock Smash. I took 10 or so minutes to get mine, which is pretty much comparable to catching any other Pokemon in the wild (at times you take longer if you're looking for a specific nature or get crap nature/IVs). It's also easy to reset for right stats when you send the fossil.
Not sure just what the percentage of finding the Old Amber is, though. I got like 5 Hard Stones from the smashing and many pointless, annoying encounters against Pokemon I didn't care to either catch or fight for exp.

On a more practical level, I should offer my five cents pretty soon to add to what we already have.

In most tier list scenarios we don't account for Pokemon opportunity cost until they actually arrive at the party.

For example, one could point out Scyther's rarity in HG/SS; especially with Technician, but it is still very possible to run into one on a Tuesday / Thursday / Saturday on your first try with Technician. The chances are low, but it's mostly irrelevant or simply too mediocre of information to really account for. For example, one could also point out that Honedge requires going off the beaten path as does Venoshock. TMs are a little more fair to account for an opportunity cost and even those are usually small due to the massive benefits they can bring to the team.

 

[magickmissile]

We were theorymonning Aerodactyl before this thread was created on IRC, & I would not be surprised (once someone tests it for real) that it could be somewhere in the vicinity of A-Tier or S-Tier. Mega Evolution early on, a physical sweeper build with excellent coverage, great Gym Matchups, & with Mega Evolution, it could be a powerful disc one nuke (or disc two), especially with such raw coverage. I would not be the least bit surprised.

Also Lucchini, just nitpicking, but Clemont's Emolga is also very frail, so I would not be surprised if Rock Tomb OHKOes it, but I guess it depends on your power & whatnot.

I actually did Aero (back on page 2, my phone makes pasting wonky so I don't have a link.) I see him as A-tier, since his only power move for most of the game is Fly, which kills most stuff, but is also somewhat inaccurate and takes two turns. He's good against a lot of stuff and wasn't ever dead weight, but he has plenty of weaknesses to things he can't kill outright.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Alright, Colonel M & I were discussing in-game tiering for quite a few Pokémon for a couple of hours on IRC, & well, I am going to drop a bombshell & propose a number of Pokémon for instant tiering:

Audino: N/A -> E-Tier
Bidoof: N/A -> C-Tier
Bunnelby: N/A -> C-Tier
Chatot: N/A -> Limbo (D/E-Tier)
Croagunk: N/A -> D-Tier
Doduo: N/A -> C-Tier
Dunsparce: N/A -> E-Tier
Farfetch'd: N/A -> E-Tier
Furfrou: N/A -> C-Tier
Gurdurr (w/ Trade & w/o Trade): N/A -> D-Tier
Hariyama: N/A -> C-Tier
Helioptile: N/A -> D-Tier
Heracross: N/A -> A-Tier
Jigglypuff: N/A -> E-Tier
Kangaskhan: N/A -> C-Tier
Kecleon: N/A -> D-Tier
Lickitung: N/A -> E-Tier
Litleo: N/A -> D-Tier
Machop (w/ Trade & w/o Trade): N/A -> C-Tier
Magikarp: N/A -> Limbo (B/C-Tier)
Meditite: N/A -> C-Tier
Mienfoo: N/A -> D-Tier
Miltank: N/A -> C-Tier
Murkrow: N/A -> E-Tier
Pancham: N/A -> C-Tier
Pidgey: N/A -> D-Tier
Pinsir: N/A -> B-Tier
Ralts (Gallade): N/A -> B-Tier
Sawk: N/A -> A-Tier
Scraggy: N/A -> C-Tier
Sentret: N/A -> E-Tier
Skitty: N/A -> E-Tier
Snorlax: N/A -> C-Tier (Can be higher)
Spearow: N/A -> E-Tier
Starly: N/A -> C-Tier
Staryu: N/A -> Limbo (B/C-Tier)
Swablu: N/A -> D-Tier
Taillow: N/A -> D-Tier
Tauros: N/A -> C-Tier
Throh: N/A -> Limbo (B/C-Tier)
Ursaring: N/A -> Limbo (D/E-Tier)
Watchog: N/A -> E-Tier
Whismur: N/A -> D-Tier
Zangoose: N/A -> C-Tier (Can be higher)
Zigzagoon: N/A -> D-Tier
Zubat: N/A -> C-Tier

That is some 46/48 entries there, including basically all Fighting-, & Normal-types there, & most of them tiered from a theorymon standpoint that can be altered through actual playing. I will give a few days for objections (Which there is a 100% chance someone -will- have an objection to some mons), & the limbo ones need a bit more discussion. If there are no objections, I will throw them into their listed tiers.

If anyone wants me to give some reasoning, I can provide some reasoning from a (primarily) theorymon standpoint. Otherwise, carry on.

 

[atsync]

The only one I used on that list is Pidgey, and I completely agree with it being placed in D-tier. It has early availability, early STAB Return, and a handful of match-ups where it can do...something, but its stats and movepool are just lame overall, and it takes way too long to get to Pidgeot.

 

[Colonel M]

Also since I helped Its_A_Random with that list, I am more than happy to respond to any questions / concerns with it.

 

[Millky95]

I plan on doing a 3-4 Pokemon no Exp Share run through in the next few days and to assist more with this list, does anyone have any Pokemon they would like field tested? Either for getting an idea of their tier or for getting them out of limbo?

 

[Banryu]

I'd say Farfetch'd could be D-tier purely on the merit of his out-of-battle utility movepool, combined with the fact that he can pretty much solo the first gym. Fly/Cut + Thief for Heart Scales, False Swipe for low-level catches, and Air Cutter for in-battle Berry Farming were all pretty reasonably useful for me. (If we're just going on the merits of in-battle usage though, E-tier is pretty appropriate for him as he pretty much loses all combative use after Gym 1)

My experience with everything else listed is pretty limited so I'll just nod and say sure.

 

[Lucchini]

Farfetch'd is going to be a little stronger than his base stats may suggest due to being in the Medium Fast experience group and gaining boosted exp as an ingame tradee. Pretty huge power very early on too. If nothing else, he gets Swords Dance to set up against some of the enemies he can take hits from. D sounds good.

Furfrou is bulky and is great early on with that normal-type STAB, but should he be in C really?

I also think there's no reason not to have Gyarados in A tier. It's only not wanted in the electric gym. Even against Grant, Intimidate + Bulldoze secure an advantage against his enemies. Really, it's the same Gyarados it always was, with only 5 levels of babying.

 

[farranpoison]

Farfetch'd is going to be a little stronger than his base stats may suggest due to being in the Medium Fast experience group and gaining boosted exp as an ingame tradee. Pretty huge power very early on too. If nothing else, he gets Swords Dance to set up against some of the enemies he can take hits from. D sounds good.

Furfrou is bulky and is great early on with that normal-type STAB, but should he be in C really?

I also think there's no reason not to have Gyarados in A tier. It's only not wanted in the electric gym. Even against Grant, Intimidate + Bulldoze secure an advantage against his enemies. Really, it's the same Gyarados it always was, with only 5 levels of babying.

I don't see why not Furfrou is in C. Great bulk, good speed tier, and versatile. Gets Headbutt and then Return pretty early, can be used for Rock Smash, gets Dig as a TM and also gets Sucker Punch later. Bulk means it can deal damage for a while without needing heals, and it's pretty strong.