Pokémon X & Y In-game Tier List Discussion

[DHR-107]

Honestly, I don't think we can really take sky battles into account. You can avoid all of them, and if you dont have anything eligible you dont have to battle at all. I was mildly dissapointed Golurk couldn't compete in them though :(

I've pretty much decided on a few things for my next team to try out too. Most of whats been said about the mons recently seems pretty accurate based off of other things I've used. I think if we have been on the fence with things they should drop into the lower tier for the time being. Roserade is an interesting one, I used on in I think a Soul Silver or White game and it was pretty solid if unspectacular.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

Sky battles are just cheap as hell and should hold no value on how good something is. I guess we just have to be thankfully there's no archeops sky trainer.

 

[AOPSUser]

Sky battles are just cheap as hell and should hold no value on how good something is. I guess we just have to be thankfully there's no archeops sky trainer.

There's an Aerodactyl Sky Trainer. She also has a Reflect Noctowl. There's also another Sky Trainer with a Baton Pass Ninjask and a Stone Edge Flygon.

I learned this the hard way by rushing in with Talonflame.

 

[Mulan15262]

I nominate Yveltal for B rank.

Availability: Late, coming after the 7th gym.
Typing: Dark/Flying. It is weak to the 8th gym leader and neutral against any other major battle you have it for. Overall, not bad, but not good either. It can also help with Sky Battles, and has a decent, but not amazing, type there.
Stats: 126/131/95/131/98/99. High HP, Attack, and Special Attack, and above average defenses and speed. It will hit hard against almost anything and can take a hit if it needs to, but won't be walling most things.
Movepool: Comes with Oblivion Wing, Snarl, Dark Pulse, and Disable. Disable is not useful, and Snarl is outclassed by Dark Pulse. The only other notable level-up moves you will get pre-E4 are Psychic and Dragon Rush. It can be taught Hurricane, Taunt, and Air Slash at the move relearner. It gets no Tutor moves, and has a decent amount of TM moves, including Roost, Focus Blast, Acrobatics, Rock Slide, and U-turn. It can also learn Cut and Fly to help with TMs, although neither are particularly useful in battle.
Major Battles: Has a type disadvantage against Wulfric, but hits hard enough to easily deal with Abomasnow, but may struggle against Cryogonal or Avalugg if you only have special or physical moves, respectively. Against E4, it has a disadvantage against 3 pokemon, and has an advantage against 3. It has an advantage against 1 of Diantha's pokemon, but is weak to 3. Overall, it fares decently well, being not very good or bad.
Other: Comes at level 50, which is about equal to the rest of your team. It also is in the no eggs discovered group, so it will always have at least 3 perfect IVs. I may be overestimating its power, though, since mine had perfect Special Attack and a modest nature, and I EV trained it to have 4 HP/252 Special Attack/252 Speed.

 

[Spenstar]

Sky battles are just cheap as hell and should hold no value on how good something is. I guess we just have to be thankfully there's no archeops sky trainer.

Completionists who want to win every sky battle the game has would value a Pokemon who's good at them. Therefore it does hold value, at least a little.

 

[Millky95]

Completionists who want to win every sky battle the game has would value a Pokemon who's good at them. Therefore it does hold value, at least a little.

I think it should be mentioned if a Pokemon can enter Sky Battles how well it performs but I don't think it should be enough to move it up or down a tier, but maybe can confirm it in that tier if someone believe it should go down?

 

[Banryu]

I nominate Yveltal for B rank.

TBH I think it'd be a pretty good idea to run at least ONE physical and special move each on both Xerneas and Yveltal if you're using them for an ingame run. In Yveltal's case, you have the obligatory Dark Pulse and Oblivion Wing, and then you can add Acrobatics (or even Fly) on top of that for strong physical coverage and like a coverage move like Focus Blast, or even Fly. I don't have Yveltal, but I watched a few of my friends with it and A rank at least seems pretty justifiable. Oblivion Wing's healing factor has to be a big help on its survivability factor, right?

Since Yveltal was brought up, I'll do a writeup on Xerneas I suppose:

Xerneas: A Rank
Availability: Late, coming after the 7th gym.
Typing: Fairy, which is good defensively and even better offensively.
Stats: Same as Yveltal, phenomenal HP and offenses with good everything else.
Movepool: Only notable moves it comes with are Moonblast and Megahorn (Geomancy is usually not worth it since so few trainers in the game actually have more than 3 Pokemon, though it IS good for Lysandre and the E4), and it gets Night Slash and Horn Leech via levelup not long after. Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, Rock Slide, Psychic/Psyshock, Flash Cannon, and Grass Knot make for decent coverage moves as well. If you want, its SpA is high enough to use the Heart Scale move Aurora Beam to decent effect against anything 4x weak to it, but as most of these are Dragons you probably needn't bother.
Major Battles:
- Lysandre: Solos him easily after setting up with Geomancy, which isn't difficult.
- Wulfric: Moonblast takes a large chunk out of everyone, though there is also Megahorn for Abomasnow, Focus Blast for Avalugg, and Rock Slide for Cryogonal.
- Malva: Struggles a bit on offense if you don't pack coverage moves. Rock Slide handles all of them admirably, and only Talonflame really threatens to do much damage.
- Wikstrom: Avoid. Moves like Tbolt and Focus Blast could power through him, but it's rather risky and not recommended.
- Drasna: Moonblast wrecks her, though watch out for Dragalge (Psyshock can handle it if you have that).
- Siebold: A combination of Tbolt and Horn Leech/Grass Knot pretty much destroys everything he has, and particularly threatens you (unless Barbaracle has Poison Jab, which it may; I'm not sure, I didn't give it the chance LOL).
- Diantha: Solos her easily after setting up with Geomancy, otherwise, only Gardevoir really threatens you. Moonblast for Hawlucha, Tyrantrum, Gourgeist and Goodra, Focus Blast or Horn Leech for Aurorus, and any strong physical moves you have (or just spam Moonblast) for Gardevoir.
Other: Fairy-typing is great for most of the late-game, since there are very few opponents (bar Wikstrom) that threaten it with supereffective moves, and STAB Moonblast when boosted by Fairy Aura is enough to let you power through most things in the Elite four alone on its own. On top of that, it gets enough great coverage moves that it can afford a slot for Geomancy, which as stated is only really useful for Diantha.

 

[Millky95]

TBH I think it'd be a pretty good idea to run at least ONE physical and special move each on both Xerneas and Yveltal if you're using them for an ingame run. In Yveltal's case, you have the obligatory Dark Pulse and Oblivion Wing, and then you can add Acrobatics (or even Fly) on top of that for strong physical coverage and like a coverage move like Focus Blast, or even Fly. I don't have Yveltal, but I watched a few of my friends with it and A rank at least seems pretty justifiable. Oblivion Wing's healing factor has to be a big help on its survivability factor, right?

Since Yveltal was brought up, I'll do a writeup on Xerneas I suppose:

Xerneas: A Rank
Availability: Late, coming after the 7th gym.
Typing: Fairy, which is good defensively and even better offensively.
Stats: Same as Yveltal, phenomenal HP and offenses with good everything else.
Movepool: Only notable moves it comes with are Moonblast and Megahorn (Geomancy is usually not worth it since so few trainers in the game actually have more than 3 Pokemon, though it IS good for Lysandre and the E4), and it gets Night Slash and Horn Leech via levelup not long after. Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, Rock Slide, Psychic/Psyshock, Flash Cannon, and Grass Knot make for decent coverage moves as well. If you want, its SpA is high enough to use the Heart Scale move Aurora Beam to decent effect against anything 4x weak to it, but as most of these are Dragons you probably needn't bother.
Major Battles:
- Lysandre: Solos him easily after setting up with Geomancy, which isn't difficult.
- Wulfric: Moonblast takes a large chunk out of everyone, though there is also Megahorn for Abomasnow, Focus Blast for Avalugg, and Rock Slide for Cryogonal.
- Malva: Struggles a bit on offense if you don't pack coverage moves. Rock Slide handles all of them admirably, and only Talonflame really threatens to do much damage.
- Wikstrom: Avoid. Moves like Tbolt and Focus Blast could power through him, but it's rather risky and not recommended.
- Drasna: Moonblast wrecks her, though watch out for Dragalge (Psyshock can handle it if you have that).
- Siebold: A combination of Tbolt and Horn Leech/Grass Knot pretty much destroys everything he has, and particularly threatens you (unless Barbaracle has Poison Jab, which it may; I'm not sure, I didn't give it the chance LOL).
- Diantha: Solos her easily after setting up with Geomancy, otherwise, only Gardevoir really threatens you. Moonblast for Hawlucha, Tyrantrum, Gourgeist and Goodra, Focus Blast or Horn Leech for Aurorus, and any strong physical moves you have (or just spam Moonblast) for Gardevoir.
Other: Fairy-typing is great for most of the late-game, since there are very few opponents (bar Wikstrom) that threaten it with supereffective moves, and STAB Moonblast when boosted by Fairy Aura is enough to let you power through most things in the Elite four alone on its own. On top of that, it gets enough great coverage moves that it can afford a slot for Geomancy, which as stated is only really useful for Diantha.

Moonblast / Megahorn / Horn Leech / Other depending on team IMO would be a decent set. Potential S even without Geomancy as IMO it wastes a slot. Whatever spare move you have could cover whatever you need for your team. If you were fancy with Ethers you could solo the entire E4 with it by changing the final move.

 

[DHR-107]

No.

I am going to stop you guys right here. Yveltal/Xerneas have no real business being in S/A tier at all. They come after everything else in the whole game is done except for one Gym (which is trivial anyway) and the Elite 4. B at absolute best because they are pretty strong (Hell, if I had my way they would be C!). Yes they are strong, have good movesets, and come roughly equivalent in level to your team, but the fact you could be holding onto that slot for 90% of the game just for that legend is kinda off.

 

[Lucchini]

No.

I am going to stop you guys right here. Yveltal/Xerneas have no real business being in S/A tier at all. They come after everything else in the whole game is done except for one Gym (which is trivial anyway) and the Elite 4. B at absolute best because they are pretty strong (Hell, if I had my way they would be C!). Yes they are strong, have good movesets, and come roughly equivalent in level to your team, but the fact you could be holding onto that slot for 90% of the game just for that legend is kinda off.

I think you're going too far there; Zapdos was only around for 2 more gyms in RBY and placed in Top Tier back when we did the tiering in those games. Granted, it also had the added advantage of substantially beating your team in level. A great performance endgame should be rewarded more than existing for a long time but falling short for most of your existence (Talonflame, Chesnaught, lots of lower tier pokes) IMHO.

 

[atsync]

I think comparing RBY Zapdos (and Articuno too I suppose) and XY Xerneas/Yveltal is difficult. Zapdos didn't just exceed your team's average level - it also exceeded the level of pretty much every single Pokemon that was going to be thrown at it, somtimes by a huge amount. Xerneas and Yveltal don't really have that sort of level advantage, being about on par with the Pokemon on the upcoming routes, and they are even at a lower level than 2 of Lysandre's Pokemon. I don't doubt that Xerneas and Yveltal are both very powerful (even without a huge level advantage, they should have the raw stats and wide movepools to be at least useful during the short time they are on your team), but I can't see them being as dominant as RBY Zapdos was. Also, it's probably worth noting that Xerneas and Yveltal come later than Zapdos in the context of their games, and they are competing with more than double the number of Pokemon for a team slot (the Kalos Dex is bloody huge), so late availability seems to be a bit more detrimental to them than it was to Zapdos.

I lean more towards B for both just because they come so late and don't really seem like they would be massively more powerful than many of the options that arrive earlier than them, which makes it difficult to justify using them. I think they have the stats and movepool to be good team members, and they have at least decent match-ups against the few important trainers that they'll face, so that would put them above C. I probably wouldn't make a fuss with A-tier if that's the way the majority goes, but that just seems a bit too high for me, and definitely not S-tier.

 

[Red G]

Yveltal was quite strong, especially with Oblivion Wing's healing. However there were some times when dark/flying coverage just wasn't covering it, or Yveltal was taking too long to kill something (Oblivion Wing doesn't do a whole lot of damage, but it keeps Yveltal alive with his good defenses). Ultimately once I arrived at Victory Road my other pokemon could do the job better than Yveltal, and I just kept him as my flier. Dark STAB was nice, as was a special flying STAB move, but Yveltal was very low leveled compared to the rest of my team and certainly couldn't solo any boss trainers; this isn't Rayquaza from Emerald or even Giratina from Platinum. Yveltal is balanced in your team and is strong, but not game-breakingly so. B tier at best for such a late arrival.

 

[Lucchini]

Zapdos also required you to travel a long distance to be caught, most likely at the expense of also catching Articuno (since you have just one Master Ball and catching either quickly is very problematic; Zapdos a little less so if we're training a Graveler which we agreed was, like, a Mid tier poke), and demanded the Thunderbolt TM to function effectively without missing Thunders so much.

Since X/Y is much harder than R/B/Y, I'd say Xerneas and Yveltal also cannot be expected to solo things (though Xerneas comes close enough with Geomancy). Right now there's also a line drawn between being really damn good and really really damn good (A and S tier), which wasn't the case when we tiered RBY (where we have Squirtle, Clefairy and Zapdos all in the same tier).

Not trying to argue either legendary to be in S-tier at all, just expressing my view that C and less is even more of an extremity. Xerneas for A and Yveltal for B sounds like a good idea to me at the moment.

 

[Mulan15262]

I am not sure about Xerneas because I never got X, but in Y, Yveltal was amazing for me, although I did EV train it pre-E4 and get perfect Special Attack with a Timid nature, so I had a great Yveltal to use. If all Yveltal were as good as the one I had, it would be A tier, but I assumed, at least for in-game tiering purposes, that people would want to not reset, so I would have better than normal.

I would say A tier at best because of their late arrival, but not below B tier because of how amazingly powerful they are.

 

[Codraroll]

What tier is Nidoking in the gameboy game? (not on simultators)
What tier is Gyrados or Mega Gyrados?
How can I trade my kadabra to a random and get it back so I get ALAKAZAM?

Is Cloyster at least A tier?

1. As stated on the front page, this Pokémon is still untiered.

2. As stated on the front page, this Pokémon is still untiered. Also, Mega Gyarados is post-game only and would not be tiered.

3. As stated... oh, wait. I guess you'd have to team up with somebody, for instance through our IRC channels, and get their friend codes. Most people on there are quite nice.

4. As stated on the front page, this Pokémon is still untiered. Also, no.

 

[Lucchini]

If you mean Nidoking's tiering in RBY (the gameboy games), then we settled on Top tier there. I do think he's a little less dominating if we're not solo-speedrunning with him, but still quite versatile (much like Clefairy).

 

[LotusoftheLeaf]

Hey, guys. First off, I want to say thank you for all the in-game tier lists you make. They always help a ton.

I recently got X and I'm eager to start breeding some competitive Pokémon for the first time. I want to beat the main game quickly but I don't want to solo. According to this tier list, is a team of Delphox/Vivillon/Azumarill/Venusaur/Lucario/Aegislash the best one to get through the game relatively quickly and easily?

 

[Banryu]

Hey, guys. First off, I want to say thank you for all the in-game tier lists you make. They always help a ton.

I recently got X and I'm eager to start breeding some competitive Pokémon for the first time. I want to beat the main game quickly but I don't want to solo. According to this tier list, is a team of Delphox/Vivillon/Azumarill/Venusaur/Lucario/Aegislash the best one to get through the game relatively quickly and easily?

Sounds fine to me. I'd also feel inclined to say keep an open mind, but it sounds like your bases are gonna be pretty well covered there.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Yeah I reckon Xerneas & Yveltal are only B-Tier at best, & I am hesitant to rank them at least A-Tier. Sure they come at the right level, but they come late where you only have your rivals, Lysandre, Wulfric, & the Pokémon League left after catching them, & they also do not really sweep all what is left either... R/B Zapdos is not really a fair comparison either, especially given you can (iirc) catch it in time for Sabrina of all people... After five Badges... At Level 50... Seven levels above Sabrina's highest leveled Pokémon (Or on par in Yellow) Yeah, I would be willing to use 3-4 minutes to catch a Zapdos with Master Ball...

That said, dropping Budew from S-Tier to A-Tier. Waiting to Lv. 37 for Petal Dance which is 5th Gym-6th Gym territory is pretty annoying & inefficient... Yeah I cannot be bothered with coherent reasoning, but yeah, dropping it down.

Also Mulan I cannot type regarding Aron/Larvitar, fixed.

 

[Millky95]

Yeah I reckon Xerneas & Yveltal are only B-Tier at best, & I am hesitant to rank them at least A-Tier. Sure they come at the right level, but they come late where you only have your rivals, Lysandre, Wulfric, & the Pokémon League left after catching them, & they also do not really sweep all what is left either...

I agree with Yvetal seening as how it didn't fit into my team at all and was boxed but I'm confident in Xerneas being A. It can fill a roll in your team which you could be missing. It has a large movepool and good stats to be a handle forefront sweeper or back-up sweeper in almost all of the last matches it's in. Include Horn Leech being able to self heal, it becomes self reliant too. I think being able to net 1-3 KOs on average per match in a game where I believe there are only like 3 trainers who use 5+ Pokemon is enough to warrant A tier.

 

[Colonel M]

That said, dropping Budew from S-Tier to A-Tier. Waiting to Lv. 37 for Petal Dance which is 5th Gym-6th Gym territory is pretty annoying & inefficient... Yeah I cannot be bothered with coherent reasoning, but yeah, dropping it down.

Considering Venoshock nukes down the 6th Gym... uh... I'm really failing to see how waiting a little while longer for Petal Dance is such a big deal.

Furthermore, Giga Drain gives it something many Pokemon don't have around its tier - sustainability. That's really hard to match even in the earlier parts of the game up to late game. It having to wait for Petal Dance when it has Giga Drain is fairly trivial. Again - consider that even Charmander / Charmeleon has a weird rut around it for a short time before they become "nukes" and they require a Mega Evolution to pull it off.

Also:

I do agree that speed and attack take priority over all else on the tier list, but Roserade's durability problems will still be visible whenever she fails to OHKO (or outspeed).

Eviolite easily patches that issue, and even without it I didn't see much that really OHKOed it beforehand unless it was something like... birds... which you avoid.

 

[Kshimify15]

I'd like to add Combee. Very vulnerable early game, but nothing EXP SHARE can't handle. Once you get ahold of Vespiquen, yes she has TONS of weaknesses, but her Defenses on both ends make up for it BIG TIME. I was even able to take out Gyarados from the elite 4 after dragons dancing and using ice fang. The fact that she can heal order is super useful for tanking hits. Her offense is mediocre, but my vespiquen throughout held her own with taking hits. The only problem I was given was stone edge from the E4. Aside from that, you have a massive defense right here. :D

I have thought about how it has so many weaknesses, but after trying her out, I'd have situations where I'd go, "oh god super effective!" And it just scratches her, and I end up scratching my head... Lol.

 

[Magcargo]

I'd like to add Combee. Very vulnerable early game, but nothing EXP SHARE can't handle. Once you get ahold of Vespiquen, yes she has TONS of weaknesses, but her Defenses on both ends make up for it BIG TIME. I was even able to take out Gyarados from the elite 4 after dragons dancing and using ice fang. The fact that she can heal order is super useful for tanking hits. Her offense is mediocre, but my vespiquen throughout held her own with taking hits. The only problem I was given was stone edge from the E4. Aside from that, you have a massive defense right here. :D

I have thought about how it has so many weaknesses, but after trying her out, I'd have situations where I'd go, "oh god super effective!" And it just scratches her, and I end up scratching my head... Lol.

For this in-game tier list, the EXP. Share is assumed to be turned off.

 

[SimicCombine]

Also 7/8 Combee are male and thus completely worthless. That alone would knock it down to C tier tops unless you're very lucky (unlike me.)

 

[Millky95]

Would like to try and clear out some starting from Route 2:

Linoone: Decent HM slave (3 HMs in Cut, Surf and Strength), Pick Up can be helpful, levels pretty quickly, decent speed but not much else, average typing C/D/E Tier
Beedrill: Slow, poor typing, weak stats. Levels quickly though but should be dropped when something better comes along E/F Tier
Butterfree: See Breedrill but Confusion is nice for the first gym. E/F Tier
Pidgeot: Decently fast, OK level up but overall weaker and slower to Talonflame who has better typing too. But a decent flying type which can help with 3 gyms. D/E Tier
Diggersby: Levels fast, evolves early, decent typing with a good movepool. Terribly slow and weak though without Huge Power. D/E Tier
Vivillon: See Butterfree E/F Tier