Project OM Mashup Megathread

NoobSpammer · Dec 23, 2024

splodge said:
Truly skilled trainers should win with their favourites, ~~so I guess I'm not very skilled~~.

Ok by that logic I am not skilled.
If only Amoonguss, was bulkier...

splodge · Dec 23, 2024

NoobSpammer said:
Ok by that logic I am not skilled.
If only Amoonguss, was bulkier...

252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Cinderace V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Amoonguss: 492-580 (113.8 - 134.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Your best bet is using Endure and hoping for Effect Spore sleep

rightclicker · Dec 23, 2024

other random pokebh sets i've been toying around

:sv/lucario-mega:

Lucario-Mega @ Fist Plate
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Judgment
- Tachyon Cutter
- Electro Drift
awesome guy (if you dont run into imposter)
ok so the idea is that you click np once and you deal actually batshit insane amounts of damage from boosts + adapt. the problem is obviously improofing (basically just scales chansey/blissey) so try and para imposter first before setting up, or alternatively just win speed tie if ur a gamer fr fr

:sv/ogerpon-hearthflame:

Ogerpon-Hearthflame (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sword of Ruin / Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- V-create
- U-turn
- Glacial Lance / Headlong Rush
- Flower Trick
cool guy. built in moldy + solid atk + stab v-create hitting imposter for neutral all in one. if you get this guy in under sun nothing short of fc ashield pex or something (or ur improof ig) is walling it, alternatively, you can use it as a bog standard band breaker with desoland.

:sv/ampharos-mega:

Pink Giraffe (Ampharos-Mega) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Cage
- Knock Off
- Strength Sap
- Draco Meteor
i heard you like built in moldy???? with it, our pink giraffe is already deceptively difficult to answer defensively even if he had, say, miraidon spa, but he has godlike spa of 165 so really the only things that are walling this are the blobs. outplaying offensively is way easier though cuz slow speed, but be careful of his pretty solid bulk.

nine eleven (Conkeldurr) @ Flame Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Dynamic Punch
- Bolt Strike
- Gunk Shot
- Precipice Blades
dynamic punch is the strongest phys fighting move boosted by sf and before you say it hell no im not gambling

:sv/camerupt-mega:

Camerupt-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Blue Flare
- Earth Power
- Volt Switch
- Armor Cannon

:sv/rampardos:

the rock (Rampardos) @ Choice Band
Ability: Rocky Payload
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Diamond Storm
- Mighty Cleave
- Head Smash
- Trick

:sv/necrozma-dawn-wings:

Necrozma-Dawn-Wings @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability / Beads of Ruin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Moongeist Beam
- Astral Barrage
- Psystrike / Secret Sword / Volt Switch
- Fleur Cannon

:sv/ampharos-mega:

Ampharos-Mega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dragon's Maw
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Dragon Energy
- Clanging Scales
- Volt Switch
- Secret Sword

lumping these all together because they do basically the same thing: be really fucking hard to wall under trick room. trick room i feel like is not actually bad here compared to svbh (even though its still a meme) because of the sheer power of the abusers.

:sv/slaking:

Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability / Scrappy / Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Population Bomb
- V-create / Headlong Rush
- Wicked Blow / Explosion / U-turn
yeah. the monkey is legal. and probably not even that good. you deal ridiculous damage obviously but you're extremely prediction reliant, while having to click 0% accuracy move popbomb, and you're forced to run it with sapblock since you can't hit twice, making slower walls (eg. pex, audino, dozo, etc) much better at walling it

:sv/darmanitan-galar:

Darmanitan-Galar @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Ability: Sword of Ruin / Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Glacial Lance
- Headlong Rush
- V-create
- U-turn / Sunsteel Strike / Gigaton Hammer
the other legal monkey. this guy is actually really good though, with a built in band + amp ability you can't really go wrong. band boosts your damage to unwallable levels while scarf makes you better against offense / fast walls. despite the insane damage, darm-g struggles a lot from improofing being dumb and being rocks weak + vulnerable to status, which are probably fine tradeoffs.

ANinjaDude · Dec 24, 2024

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays everyone, and to celebrate, have some teams.

Actually Tested Teams

This team's built around using Eternatus and Ting-Lu to spread poison everywhere so UNecro can click guaranteed crit moves and win. Make sure to keep Ting-Lu un-poisoned, otherwise it doesn't Improof UNecro. If Imposter gets poisoned, it no longer Improofs a full hp non-poisoned UNecro after the UNecro clicks any SpA dropping move.

Team is a little janky into opposing offense, but is very good into fat balance teams.

This team is another one built to punish Gliscor fat balance teams, this time by spreading status among the other team, and then getting in FMane and clicking Infernal Parade until everything in front of it is dead. Be careful of Pink Blobs and scout them first so you don't take a random Poison/Paralysis, and don't be afraid to trade status with their Imp, especially with Zamazenta's Nuzzle.

Team is again, a bit janky into opposing offense, and could do with fitting hazards on another mon, but is another good punisher of fat balance teams. Just spread status, and soon enough they'll start dropping to the goth ghost.

Cirno HO, inspired by Akira 153, now with 100% more Pokebilities fun! Just click kill buttons, and don't be afraid to sacrifice yourself to kill them.

Team is a lot weaker when the other person knows what you're trying to do, struggles hard into FC Pex, and FMane is a bit fraudulent, but it's a booming good time.

Not Tested Teams
I don't have much commentary on these teams, other than the ideas that spawned them.

Idea is just click buttons with your two breakers, use Ghostceus/Pex to get some hazards on their side, and sapblock with Pex/Blissey.

Idea is Kyogre sets rain for Basc to go absolutely ham, Gastrodon improofs the fish, and basically everything else is a desperate flailing to not lose to other offensive teams. Probably horrible, but might serve as inspiration for a more refined version someday.

aerobee · Dec 24, 2024

Basculegion-F is banned from PokeBH!

	aerobee	ANinjaDude	Clas	NoobSpammer	Lysion	rightclicker	The Hisui Region	Result (Y-N-A)
Basculegion-F	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	7-0-0 BAN
Regenerator + FurScales	BAN	ABS	DNB	DNB	DNB	ABS	DNB	1-4-2 DNB

This shouldn't come as a surprise for anyone who's played recent roomtours. Nearly nothing could switch into Basculegion-F's PrimSea Water Spout (everything upwards of RegenVest Toxapex could get 2HKOed), Imposter was 2HKOed by Water Spout (OHKOed with Astral Barrage) by de-EVing SpD, and Basc-F possessed surprising defensive utility as well as conducive partners in FurScales + Regenerator pivots, allowing it to repeatedly come in and score KOs unobstructed.

aerobee · Dec 26, 2024

Some PokeBH sets:

:sv/gliscor:

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Fur Coat / Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Victory Dance
- Beak Blast
- Precipice Blades
- Spikes / Burning Bulwark / Baneful Bunker / Taunt

Self-Improofs with FC or Scales + Protection. VD loses its worst weakness on Gliscor thanks to Hyper Cutter preventing Strength Sap users from necessarily hardwalling sweeper sets, so counterplay outside of attacking with damaging enough attacks is left to reactive counterplay (Topsy-Turvy, Haze, Clear Smog, phazing) and the combination of Salt Cure + attacks. Beak Blast is interesting as being negative priority means 2HKOing opposing Strength Sap users at +6 suffices provided they cannot break through (as you can Beak Blast --> outspeed with Precipice Blades to KO rather than PP stall opposing Sap or get a predict right). Spikes is generally super useful and mitigates one of VD sets' weak points in generally not contributing to the game state aside from the threat of setting up and sweeping. Be sure to fit protection instead if Scales though, since you'll be taking 25 from Beak Blast instead of ~13. I haven't tried Taunt but I'm sure that's also an option if FC, since you disable potential counterplay that the other 4th move options don't. This is clearly the most problematic Gliscor set imo and if this set were popular I'd probably be on the fence on whether Gliscor's banworthy or not.

:sv/altaria-mega:

Altaria-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed / Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Boomburst
- Nuzzle / Stone Axe
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn

Best Spinner in the format imo, since it's the most worthwhile defensive -ate mon to run and knowing you get reliable Spins off means you're not giving up much by running a non-Boots item on most mons. Boomburst almost OHKOes Zamazenta and deals ~40 to neutral Arceus formes, meaning you're not passive at all. Nuzzle lets you annoy Imposter (if Imp Transforms into Toxapex it's healed by Limber, though) and most non-Toxapex stuff, while Stone Axe is efficient hazard setting. The Basculegions are banned now but Altaria can still check Sniper Greninja/some TH Arceus and force opposing Kyogre/Reshiram/SF Greninja/most Fairy-weaks out. Poor bulk means neutral and even some resisted hits can be annoyances though.

:sv/gliscor:

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rapid Spin
- Facade
- Spikes

Now for the second best Spinner. The self-Improofing is a bit sketchy but Aerilate Gliscor's really good at coming into passive hazard setters and safely removing or Spiking in front of them. Aerilate Facade also hits way harder than one would expect, 2HKOing neutral nature Ho-Oh and dealing ~40 to neutral Arceus formes. What tends to happen in practice is coming in to remove hazards in the early game, get Spikes up against whatever passive mons allow you in, and SD when an opportunity to break arises, which is pretty quick when the opponent doesn't have a mon that comfortably 1v1s +2 Gliscor. Use on bulkier teams that'd like to not be consigned to Boots spam, preferably with a backup wincon like TH Arceus.

:sv/lucario-mega:

Lucario-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Gigaton Hammer
- Close Combat / Collision Course
- Bullet Punch / Knock Off / Trick / Mach Punch / Bolt Strike / Electro Drift

Very tough mon to answer without FC AShield Toxapex, with Sunsteel 2HKOing everything upwards of neutral nature Ting-Lu and Fighting STAB generally nailing the rest. Sunsteel's going to be the button you're mashing but Gigaton applies additional pressure by hitting non-FC foes way harder and CC discourage Imposter from coming in. The 4th slot is flexible – I ran Bullet Punch which has randomly let me pick down opposing Imposter before, but you could probably run a bunch of other stuff if you wanted to. Clearly the closest Lucario set to being problematic imo and I'd imagine something like this is what got Kartana banned in base BH? Just Luc is stronger here, slightly faster, and has a better secondary STAB.

:sv/ho-oh:

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers / Clear Amulet / Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spirit Shackle
- Victory Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Strength Sap

More potent than in base BH since Pressure affects the VD-Sap dynamic in your favor. If the opponent can't force you out you can boost to +6 pretty easily and hit stuff with coked up Flare Blitz. I prefer Leftovers since Clear Amulet isn't a necessity anymore thanks to Pressure but Amulet is still nice against FCs bulky enough to eat one +6 hit. Life Orb can score 2HKOs against FC Toxapex at +6 and OHKO FC Arceus formes after Stealth Rock. You can run similar sets on Yveltal/Kingambit (Sapblocks thanks to Defiant)/Gliscor and probably Dialga/Zekrom/anything that can realistically do so in base BH, though Ho-Oh is definitely the most splashable user. Closest Ho-Oh set to being broken imo.

__________________________________________________________________

More niche/matchup-fishy sets:

:sv/zekrom:

Zekrom @ Wide Lens / Life Orb
Ability: Galvanize / Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Population Bomb / Bolt Strike
- Glaive Rush
- Strength Sap

You kinda hope you don't run into Helmet/Ting/Steelix/Altaria but otherwise this is fairly solid. -ate PopBomb/Adapt Bolt Strike OHKO Arceus at +1 and Glaive Rush potentially 2HKOes Eviolite Imposter w/ Galvanize and deals 82% min with Adapt. Easily Improofed by Steelix and can be pivoted around by Altaria.

:sv/sableye-mega:

Sableye-Mega @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Nuzzle
- Defog / Burning Bulwark / Mortal Spin / Baneful Bunker / whatever
- Teleport

Magic Bounce + Regen is good for passive Spikes setters, not much to say. Sableye underspeeding basically everything and blocking Strength Sap are also really useful.

:sv/hydrapple:

Hydrapple / Ferrothorn @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magic Guard / Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy / Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Mortal Spin
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off / Matcha Gotcha / Stone Axe / Clear Smog / Dragon Tail / Circle Throw / Nuzzle / whatever
- U-turn

Good into Kyogre and opposing Regenerator guys since you don't care about Mortal Spin and are relatively slow. Dual Spin because you'd generally be slotting these on Rain (as I did pre-Basc bans) to remove hazards for teammates especially concerned with staying at full (Water Spout stuff but also everything in general). Hydrapple can't get Knocked so it's especially resilient against opposing RegenVests, while Ferrothorn can chip via Iron Barbs and scout opposing Fire/Fighting coverage if necessary so they both have usable Abilities aside from Regen. If not on Rain, you're mostly using these to complement Toxapex as Apple/Ferro and Pex have great type synergy and Ho-Oh being Stone Axe-weak can be annoying.

:sv/breloom:

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Bullet Seed
- Spikes
- Icicle Spear / Triple Axel / Burning Bulwark / Baneful Bunker

Pair this with Gliscor if you want 2 Poison Heal mons that badly. With FC you can comfortably come in on Regens not named Dialga/Ho-Oh and you soft-check Sniper Greninja so you have situational defensive utility as well. Ice coverage is mainly for Gliscor but it's also not strictly necessary. Pair with reliable hazard control and setup Gliscor (1st set in this post) for optimal results.

:sv/weezing-galar:

Weezing-Galar @ Black Sludge / Covert Cloak
Ability: Regenerator / Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Salt Cure
- Knock Off / Mortal Spin / Ruination
- Defog / Strength Sap / Ruination / Mortal Spin / Leech Seed / Stone Axe
- Shore Up

Neutralizing Gas is weird in that currently the first time one sends a native NGas user out only Neutralizing Gas is active, with all other Abilities being suppressed regardless of Ability Shield (even for the opposing Pokemon). However, in subsequent times the NGas user is switched in only the non-Neutralizing Gas Abilities (Levitate/Misty Surge/the custom Ability in this case) are active, and the opposing Pokemon's Abilities are unaffected.

e: I forgot just slotting Neutralizing Gas in over a custom Ability allows Neutralizing Gas to remain active on subsequent switch-ins. Ban this ASAP

This makes Weezing-G an excellent stallbreaker but pretty horrible at everything else. Salt Cure's necessary since it's the most effective way to harass walls that can't force Weezing out (basically all of them bar TH Arceus formes and RegenVest Dialga), and I strongly recommend Shore Up since some passive teams just fold if they can't take advantage of reliance on Strength Sap. The other moves listed aid Weezing in its main role: Knock removes Cloak to more effectively mash Salt Cure, Mortal Spin/Leech Seed incur additional passive damage, and Ruination helps to deplete opposing recovery PP. You can also run Strength Sap for additional (situationally superior) recovery or hazard removal/setting in case Weezing alone isn't enough for the matchup at hand. Levitate + Regenerator with Weezing-G's typing is actually not bad so even if you do have to switch out Weezing can potentially tangibly impact the game state; alternatively Fur Coat seems fine but most special mons (and many physical attackers) pretty easily force you out. I wouldn't mind if NGas were fully banned rather than merely restricted because sets like this are simply cancer to deal with.

:sv/medicham-mega:

Medicham-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Psychic Fangs
- Wicked Blow / Knock Off / Bolt Strike / Flower Trick
- Gigaton Hammer / Extreme Speed / Mach Punch / Bolt Strike / Flower Trick / Glacial Lance

Seems like everyone forgot this mon exists LOL, I haven't tried Medicham recently but there's no way it's not good if not outright broken. CC 2HKOes non-AShield Toxapex and Ho-Oh, and deals 84% minimum to neutral Arceus. Psychic Fangs is mostly for Toxapex, but it also 2HKOes basically anything CC doesn't OHKO. The other two moves are flexible: Wicked Blow OHKOes Ghostceus, Knock Off hits the same targets (albeit less hard) while removing items, Bolt Strike OHKOes Dondozo and slightly chipped Slowbro, Flower Trick never misses in exchange for Bolt Strike's sheer power, Gigaton Hammer OHKOes Fairyceus and hits neutral targets almost as hard as CC, and Glacial Lance OHKOes Gliscor and Salamence. As for priority options, Extreme Speed generally 2HKOes chipped foes so you can sometimes guarantee value off of a revenge kill, while Mach Punch OHKOes slightly chipped Lucario. 100 Speed isn't fast, especially with Medicham's crappy bulk, but it's not as bad as in base BH because Speed tiers are generally lower.

:sv/ursaluna:

Ursaluna @ Flame Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe OR 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant / Brave Nature
IVs: 31 Spe OR 0 Spe
- Facade
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Axe
- Strength Sap

Somewhat outclassed by Gliscor but you can probably pair the two together just fine, since Gliscor favors Spikes anyway and can provide hazard removal/run sweeper sets as needed. The one time I tried running this I got smashed by TR Rampardos so you can run min Speed for that if you want.

Other (mostly untested) sets: Modest Specs BOR Flutter/Banded or Growth Chlorophyll Reshiram in Sun, Banded Kingdra in Rain, Stench Lopunny, Scales Clodsire, FurScales Tornadus-T, Banded Steelworker Perrserker, FC Manectric, Flame Body/Static Gliscor, Specs Mold Breaker Salamence, Banded Mold Breaker/Sniper/Technician Chien-Pao

__________________________________________________________________

Misc. meta thoughts:

Toxapex is the most splashable mon in the meta, closely followed by Gliscor. Besides Imposter/TH Arceus formes, everything else is an appreciable distance behind. The former should be on most non-HO since its insane bulk with FurScales more than justifies its shortcomings
Ice Scales Toxapex/Ho-Oh invalidate the majority of special breakers seen in base BH
Support/hybrid Gliscor punishes passive walls really harshly but imo those sets are nowhere near banworthy since it's not unreasonably difficult to reduce entry points via strong neutral/reasonably strong Water/Ice-type moves. VD sets are potentially unhealthy enough to warrant discussion though
Audino is WAY worse here than in base BH: Lucario is actually good, Gliscor strongly punishes its passivity, and with generally lower Speed tiers Arceus formes and FurScales Regenerator walls are very strong competition
Likewise, non-Imp blobs kinda suck because Scales Regens and Gliscor exist
Wandering Spirit is far worse than in base BH because custom Wandering Spirit always steals the custom Ability, which is often not Regenerator due to the relative abundance of native-Regen pivoters. Native WS (on Yamask-Galar and Runerigus) steals a random opposing Ability so that isn't reliable either
Salamence/non-Sand Tyranitar are kinda overrated
Assuming Regen + FurScales and/or Toxapex/Ho-Oh don't leave anytime soon, I think we've reached a more or less decent metagame state. The only mons I'd consider hitting right now are Lucario, Gliscor, and some overly strong TR mons (Rampardos? Ampharos? Perrserker?), though I wouldn't count some ridiculously hard hitters with middling Speed (Medicham/Porygon-Z/Charizard Y) out either.

NoobSpammer · Dec 27, 2024

aerobee said:
Some PokeBH sets:

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Fur Coat / Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Victory Dance
- Beak Blast
- Precipice Blades
- Spikes / Burning Bulwark / Baneful Bunker / Taunt

Self-Improofs with FC or Scales + Protection. VD loses its worst weakness on Gliscor thanks to Hyper Cutter preventing Strength Sap users from necessarily hardwalling sweeper sets, so counterplay outside of attacking with damaging enough attacks is left to reactive counterplay (Topsy-Turvy, Haze, Clear Smog, phazing) and the combination of Salt Cure + attacks. Beak Blast is interesting as being negative priority means 2HKOing opposing Strength Sap users at +6 suffices provided they cannot break through (as you can Beak Blast --> outspeed with Precipice Blades to KO rather than PP stall opposing Sap or get a predict right). Spikes is generally super useful and mitigates one of VD sets' weak points in generally not contributing to the game state aside from the threat of setting up and sweeping. Be sure to fit protection instead if Scales though, since you'll be taking 25 from Beak Blast instead of ~13. I haven't tried Taunt but I'm sure that's also an option if FC, since you disable potential counterplay that the other 4th move options don't. This is clearly the most problematic Gliscor set imo and if this set were popular I'd probably be on the fence on whether Gliscor's banworthy or not.

Altaria-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed / Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Boomburst
- Nuzzle / Stone Axe
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn

Best Spinner in the format imo, since it's the most worthwhile defensive -ate mon to run and knowing you get reliable Spins off means you're not giving up much by running a non-Boots item on most mons. Boomburst almost OHKOes Zamazenta and deals ~40 to neutral Arceus formes, meaning you're not passive at all. Nuzzle lets you annoy Imposter (if Imp Transforms into Toxapex it's healed by Limber, though) and most non-Toxapex stuff, while Stone Axe is efficient hazard setting. The Basculegions are banned now but Altaria can still check Sniper Greninja/some TH Arceus and force opposing Kyogre/Reshiram/SF Greninja/most Fairy-weaks out. Poor bulk means neutral and even some resisted hits can be annoyances though.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rapid Spin
- Facade
- Spikes

Now for the second best Spinner. The self-Improofing is a bit sketchy but Aerilate Gliscor's really good at coming into passive hazard setters and safely removing or Spiking in front of them. Aerilate Facade also hits way harder than one would expect, 2HKOing neutral nature Ho-Oh and dealing ~40 to neutral Arceus formes. What tends to happen in practice is coming in to remove hazards in the early game, get Spikes up against whatever passive mons allow you in, and SD when an opportunity to break arises, which is pretty quick when the opponent doesn't have a mon that comfortably 1v1s +2 Gliscor. Use on bulkier teams that'd like to not be consigned to Boots spam, preferably with a backup wincon like TH Arceus.

Lucario-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Gigaton Hammer
- Close Combat / Collision Course
- Bullet Punch / Knock Off / Trick / Mach Punch / Bolt Strike / Electro Drift

Very tough mon to answer without FC AShield Toxapex, with Sunsteel 2HKOing everything upwards of neutral nature Ting-Lu and Fighting STAB generally nailing the rest. Sunsteel's going to be the button you're mashing but Gigaton applies additional pressure by hitting non-FC foes way harder and CC discourage Imposter from coming in. The 4th slot is flexible – I ran Bullet Punch which has randomly let me pick down opposing Imposter before, but you could probably run a bunch of other stuff if you wanted to. Clearly the closest Lucario set to being problematic imo and I'd imagine something like this is what got Kartana banned in base BH? Just Luc is stronger here, slightly faster, and has a better secondary STAB.

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers / Clear Amulet / Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spirit Shackle
- Victory Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Strength Sap

More potent than in base BH since Pressure affects the VD-Sap dynamic in your favor. If the opponent can't force you out you can boost to +6 pretty easily and hit stuff with coked up Flare Blitz. I prefer Leftovers since Clear Amulet isn't a necessity anymore thanks to Pressure but Amulet is still nice against FCs bulky enough to eat one +6 hit. Life Orb can score 2HKOs against FC Toxapex at +6 and OHKO FC Arceus formes after Stealth Rock. You can run similar sets on Yveltal/Kingambit (Sapblocks thanks to Defiant)/Gliscor and probably Dialga/Zekrom/anything that can realistically do so in base BH, though Ho-Oh is definitely the most splashable user. Closest Ho-Oh set to being broken imo.

__________________________________________________________________

More niche/matchup-fishy sets:

Zekrom @ Wide Lens / Life Orb
Ability: Galvanize / Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Population Bomb / Bolt Strike
- Glaive Rush
- Strength Sap

You kinda hope you don't run into Helmet/Ting/Steelix/Altaria but otherwise this is fairly solid. -ate PopBomb/Adapt Bolt Strike OHKO Arceus at +1 and Glaive Rush potentially 2HKOes Eviolite Imposter w/ Galvanize and deals 82% min with Adapt. Easily Improofed by Steelix and can be pivoted around by Altaria.

Sableye-Mega @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Nuzzle
- Defog / Burning Bulwark / Mortal Spin / Baneful Bunker / whatever
- Teleport

Magic Bounce + Regen is good for passive Spikes setters, not much to say. Sableye underspeeding basically everything and blocking Strength Sap are also really useful.

Hydrapple / Ferrothorn @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magic Guard / Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy / Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Mortal Spin
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off / Matcha Gotcha / Stone Axe / Clear Smog / Dragon Tail / Circle Throw / Nuzzle / whatever
- U-turn

Good into Kyogre and opposing Regenerator guys since you don't care about Mortal Spin and are relatively slow. Dual Spin because you'd generally be slotting these on Rain (as I did pre-Basc bans) to remove hazards for teammates especially concerned with staying at full (Water Spout stuff but also everything in general). Hydrapple can't get Knocked so it's especially resilient against opposing RegenVests, while Ferrothorn can chip via Iron Barbs and scout opposing Fire/Fighting coverage if necessary so they both have usable Abilities aside from Regen. If not on Rain, you're mostly using these to complement Toxapex as Apple/Ferro and Pex have great type synergy and Ho-Oh being Stone Axe-weak can be annoying.

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Bullet Seed
- Spikes
- Icicle Spear / Triple Axel / Burning Bulwark / Baneful Bunker

Pair this with Gliscor if you want 2 Poison Heal mons that badly. With FC you can comfortably come in on Regens not named Dialga/Ho-Oh and you soft-check Sniper Greninja so you have situational defensive utility as well. Ice coverage is mainly for Gliscor but it's also not strictly necessary. Pair with reliable hazard control and setup Gliscor (1st set in this post) for optimal results.

Weezing-Galar @ Black Sludge / Covert Cloak
Ability: Regenerator / Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Salt Cure
- Knock Off / Mortal Spin / Ruination
- Defog / Strength Sap / Ruination / Mortal Spin / Leech Seed / Stone Axe
- Shore Up

Neutralizing Gas is weird in that currently the first time one sends a native NGas user out only Neutralizing Gas is active, with all other Abilities being suppressed regardless of Ability Shield (even for the opposing Pokemon). However, in subsequent times the NGas user is switched in only the non-Neutralizing Gas Abilities (Levitate/Misty Surge/the custom Ability in this case) are active, and the opposing Pokemon's Abilities are unaffected.

This makes Weezing-G an excellent stallbreaker but pretty horrible at everything else. Salt Cure's necessary since it's the most effective way to harass walls that can't force Weezing out (basically all of them bar TH Arceus formes and RegenVest Dialga), and I strongly recommend Shore Up since some passive teams just fold if they can't take advantage of reliance on Strength Sap. The other moves listed aid Weezing in its main role: Knock removes Cloak to more effectively mash Salt Cure, Mortal Spin/Leech Seed incur additional passive damage, and Ruination helps to deplete opposing recovery PP. You can also run Strength Sap for additional (situationally superior) recovery or hazard removal/setting in case Weezing alone isn't enough for the matchup at hand. Levitate + Regenerator with Weezing-G's typing is actually not bad so even if you do have to switch out Weezing can potentially tangibly impact the game state; alternatively Fur Coat seems fine but most special mons (and many physical attackers) pretty easily force you out. I wouldn't mind if NGas were fully banned rather than merely restricted because sets like this are simply cancer to deal with.

Medicham-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Psychic Fangs
- Wicked Blow / Knock Off / Bolt Strike / Flower Trick
- Gigaton Hammer / Extreme Speed / Mach Punch / Bolt Strike / Flower Trick / Glacial Lance

Seems like everyone forgot this mon exists LOL, I haven't tried Medicham recently but there's no way it's not good if not outright broken. CC 2HKOes non-AShield Toxapex and Ho-Oh, and deals 84% minimum to neutral Arceus. Psychic Fangs is mostly for Toxapex, but it also 2HKOes basically anything CC doesn't OHKO. The other two moves are flexible: Wicked Blow OHKOes Ghostceus, Knock Off hits the same targets (albeit less hard) while removing items, Bolt Strike OHKOes Dondozo and slightly chipped Slowbro, Flower Trick never misses in exchange for Bolt Strike's sheer power, Gigaton Hammer OHKOes Fairyceus and hits neutral targets almost as hard as CC, and Glacial Lance OHKOes Gliscor and Salamence. As for priority options, Extreme Speed generally 2HKOes chipped foes so you can sometimes guarantee value off of a revenge kill, while Mach Punch OHKOes slightly chipped Lucario. 100 Speed isn't fast, especially with Medicham's crappy bulk, but it's not as bad as in base BH because Speed tiers are generally lower.

Ursaluna @ Flame Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe OR 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant / Brave Nature
IVs: 31 Spe OR 0 Spe
- Facade
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Axe
- Strength Sap

Somewhat outclassed by Gliscor but you can probably pair the two together just fine, since Gliscor favors Spikes anyway and can provide hazard removal/run sweeper sets as needed. The one time I tried running this I got smashed by TR Rampardos so you can run min Speed for that if you want.

Other (mostly untested) sets: Modest Specs BOR Flutter/Banded or Growth Chlorophyll Reshiram in Sun, Banded Kingdra in Rain, Stench Lopunny, Scales Clodsire, FurScales Tornadus-T, Banded Steelworker Perrserker, FC Manectric, Flame Body/Static Gliscor, Specs Mold Breaker Salamence, Banded Mold Breaker/Sniper/Technician Chien-Pao

__________________________________________________________________

Misc. meta thoughts:

Toxapex is the most splashable mon in the meta, closely followed by Gliscor. Besides Imposter/TH Arceus formes, everything else is an appreciable distance behind. The former should be on most non-HO since its insane bulk with FurScales more than justifies its shortcomings

Ice Scales Toxapex/Ho-Oh invalidate the majority of special breakers seen in base BH

Support/hybrid Gliscor punishes passive walls really harshly but imo those sets are nowhere near banworthy since it's not unreasonably difficult to reduce entry points via strong neutral/reasonably strong Water/Ice-type moves. VD sets are potentially unhealthy enough to warrant discussion though

Audino is WAY worse here than in base BH: Lucario is actually good, Gliscor strongly punishes its passivity, and with generally lower Speed tiers Arceus formes and FurScales Regenerator walls are very strong competition

Likewise, non-Imp blobs kinda suck because Scales Regens and Gliscor exist

Wandering Spirit is far worse than in base BH because custom Wandering Spirit always steals the custom Ability, which is often not Regenerator due to the relative abundance of native-Regen pivoters. Native WS (on Yamask-Galar and Runerigus) steals a random opposing Ability so that isn't reliable either

Salamence/non-Sand Tyranitar are kinda overrated

Assuming Regen + FurScales and/or Toxapex/Ho-Oh don't leave anytime soon, I think we've reached a more or less decent metagame state. The only mons I'd consider hitting right now are Lucario, Gliscor, and some overly strong TR mons (Rampardos? Ampharos? Perrserker?), though I wouldn't count some ridiculously hard hitters with middling Speed (Medicham/Porygon-Z/Charizard Y) out either.

How could you mention Zekrom without E Speed? :zekrom:

Schpoonman · Dec 27, 2024

aerobee said:
Some PokeBH sets:

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Fur Coat / Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Victory Dance
- Beak Blast
- Precipice Blades
- Spikes / Burning Bulwark / Baneful Bunker / Taunt

Self-Improofs with FC or Scales + Protection. VD loses its worst weakness on Gliscor thanks to Hyper Cutter preventing Strength Sap users from necessarily hardwalling sweeper sets, so counterplay outside of attacking with damaging enough attacks is left to reactive counterplay (Topsy-Turvy, Haze, Clear Smog, phazing) and the combination of Salt Cure + attacks. Beak Blast is interesting as being negative priority means 2HKOing opposing Strength Sap users at +6 suffices provided they cannot break through (as you can Beak Blast --> outspeed with Precipice Blades to KO rather than PP stall opposing Sap or get a predict right). Spikes is generally super useful and mitigates one of VD sets' weak points in generally not contributing to the game state aside from the threat of setting up and sweeping. Be sure to fit protection instead if Scales though, since you'll be taking 25 from Beak Blast instead of ~13. I haven't tried Taunt but I'm sure that's also an option if FC, since you disable potential counterplay that the other 4th move options don't. This is clearly the most problematic Gliscor set imo and if this set were popular I'd probably be on the fence on whether Gliscor's banworthy or not.

Altaria-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed / Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Boomburst
- Nuzzle / Stone Axe
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn

Best Spinner in the format imo, since it's the most worthwhile defensive -ate mon to run and knowing you get reliable Spins off means you're not giving up much by running a non-Boots item on most mons. Boomburst almost OHKOes Zamazenta and deals ~40 to neutral Arceus formes, meaning you're not passive at all. Nuzzle lets you annoy Imposter (if Imp Transforms into Toxapex it's healed by Limber, though) and most non-Toxapex stuff, while Stone Axe is efficient hazard setting. The Basculegions are banned now but Altaria can still check Sniper Greninja/some TH Arceus and force opposing Kyogre/Reshiram/SF Greninja/most Fairy-weaks out. Poor bulk means neutral and even some resisted hits can be annoyances though.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rapid Spin
- Facade
- Spikes

Now for the second best Spinner. The self-Improofing is a bit sketchy but Aerilate Gliscor's really good at coming into passive hazard setters and safely removing or Spiking in front of them. Aerilate Facade also hits way harder than one would expect, 2HKOing neutral nature Ho-Oh and dealing ~40 to neutral Arceus formes. What tends to happen in practice is coming in to remove hazards in the early game, get Spikes up against whatever passive mons allow you in, and SD when an opportunity to break arises, which is pretty quick when the opponent doesn't have a mon that comfortably 1v1s +2 Gliscor. Use on bulkier teams that'd like to not be consigned to Boots spam, preferably with a backup wincon like TH Arceus.

Lucario-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Gigaton Hammer
- Close Combat / Collision Course
- Bullet Punch / Knock Off / Trick / Mach Punch / Bolt Strike / Electro Drift

Very tough mon to answer without FC AShield Toxapex, with Sunsteel 2HKOing everything upwards of neutral nature Ting-Lu and Fighting STAB generally nailing the rest. Sunsteel's going to be the button you're mashing but Gigaton applies additional pressure by hitting non-FC foes way harder and CC discourage Imposter from coming in. The 4th slot is flexible – I ran Bullet Punch which has randomly let me pick down opposing Imposter before, but you could probably run a bunch of other stuff if you wanted to. Clearly the closest Lucario set to being problematic imo and I'd imagine something like this is what got Kartana banned in base BH? Just Luc is stronger here, slightly faster, and has a better secondary STAB.

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers / Clear Amulet / Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spirit Shackle
- Victory Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Strength Sap

More potent than in base BH since Pressure affects the VD-Sap dynamic in your favor. If the opponent can't force you out you can boost to +6 pretty easily and hit stuff with coked up Flare Blitz. I prefer Leftovers since Clear Amulet isn't a necessity anymore thanks to Pressure but Amulet is still nice against FCs bulky enough to eat one +6 hit. Life Orb can score 2HKOs against FC Toxapex at +6 and OHKO FC Arceus formes after Stealth Rock. You can run similar sets on Yveltal/Kingambit (Sapblocks thanks to Defiant)/Gliscor and probably Dialga/Zekrom/anything that can realistically do so in base BH, though Ho-Oh is definitely the most splashable user. Closest Ho-Oh set to being broken imo.

__________________________________________________________________

More niche/matchup-fishy sets:

Zekrom @ Wide Lens / Life Orb
Ability: Galvanize / Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Population Bomb / Bolt Strike
- Glaive Rush
- Strength Sap

You kinda hope you don't run into Helmet/Ting/Steelix/Altaria but otherwise this is fairly solid. -ate PopBomb/Adapt Bolt Strike OHKO Arceus at +1 and Glaive Rush potentially 2HKOes Eviolite Imposter w/ Galvanize and deals 82% min with Adapt. Easily Improofed by Steelix and can be pivoted around by Altaria.

Sableye-Mega @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Nuzzle
- Defog / Burning Bulwark / Mortal Spin / Baneful Bunker / whatever
- Teleport

Magic Bounce + Regen is good for passive Spikes setters, not much to say. Sableye underspeeding basically everything and blocking Strength Sap are also really useful.

Hydrapple / Ferrothorn @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magic Guard / Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy / Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Mortal Spin
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off / Matcha Gotcha / Stone Axe / Clear Smog / Dragon Tail / Circle Throw / Nuzzle / whatever
- U-turn

Good into Kyogre and opposing Regenerator guys since you don't care about Mortal Spin and are relatively slow. Dual Spin because you'd generally be slotting these on Rain (as I did pre-Basc bans) to remove hazards for teammates especially concerned with staying at full (Water Spout stuff but also everything in general). Hydrapple can't get Knocked so it's especially resilient against opposing RegenVests, while Ferrothorn can chip via Iron Barbs and scout opposing Fire/Fighting coverage if necessary so they both have usable Abilities aside from Regen. If not on Rain, you're mostly using these to complement Toxapex as Apple/Ferro and Pex have great type synergy and Ho-Oh being Stone Axe-weak can be annoying.

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Bullet Seed
- Spikes
- Icicle Spear / Triple Axel / Burning Bulwark / Baneful Bunker

Pair this with Gliscor if you want 2 Poison Heal mons that badly. With FC you can comfortably come in on Regens not named Dialga/Ho-Oh and you soft-check Sniper Greninja so you have situational defensive utility as well. Ice coverage is mainly for Gliscor but it's also not strictly necessary. Pair with reliable hazard control and setup Gliscor (1st set in this post) for optimal results.

Weezing-Galar @ Black Sludge / Covert Cloak
Ability: Regenerator / Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Salt Cure
- Knock Off / Mortal Spin / Ruination
- Defog / Strength Sap / Ruination / Mortal Spin / Leech Seed / Stone Axe
- Shore Up

Neutralizing Gas is weird in that currently the first time one sends a native NGas user out only Neutralizing Gas is active, with all other Abilities being suppressed regardless of Ability Shield (even for the opposing Pokemon). However, in subsequent times the NGas user is switched in only the non-Neutralizing Gas Abilities (Levitate/Misty Surge/the custom Ability in this case) are active, and the opposing Pokemon's Abilities are unaffected.

e: I forgot just slotting Neutralizing Gas in over a custom Ability allows Neutralizing Gas to remain active on subsequent switch-ins. Ban this ASAP

This makes Weezing-G an excellent stallbreaker but pretty horrible at everything else. Salt Cure's necessary since it's the most effective way to harass walls that can't force Weezing out (basically all of them bar TH Arceus formes and RegenVest Dialga), and I strongly recommend Shore Up since some passive teams just fold if they can't take advantage of reliance on Strength Sap. The other moves listed aid Weezing in its main role: Knock removes Cloak to more effectively mash Salt Cure, Mortal Spin/Leech Seed incur additional passive damage, and Ruination helps to deplete opposing recovery PP. You can also run Strength Sap for additional (situationally superior) recovery or hazard removal/setting in case Weezing alone isn't enough for the matchup at hand. Levitate + Regenerator with Weezing-G's typing is actually not bad so even if you do have to switch out Weezing can potentially tangibly impact the game state; alternatively Fur Coat seems fine but most special mons (and many physical attackers) pretty easily force you out. I wouldn't mind if NGas were fully banned rather than merely restricted because sets like this are simply cancer to deal with.

Medicham-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Psychic Fangs
- Wicked Blow / Knock Off / Bolt Strike / Flower Trick
- Gigaton Hammer / Extreme Speed / Mach Punch / Bolt Strike / Flower Trick / Glacial Lance

Seems like everyone forgot this mon exists LOL, I haven't tried Medicham recently but there's no way it's not good if not outright broken. CC 2HKOes non-AShield Toxapex and Ho-Oh, and deals 84% minimum to neutral Arceus. Psychic Fangs is mostly for Toxapex, but it also 2HKOes basically anything CC doesn't OHKO. The other two moves are flexible: Wicked Blow OHKOes Ghostceus, Knock Off hits the same targets (albeit less hard) while removing items, Bolt Strike OHKOes Dondozo and slightly chipped Slowbro, Flower Trick never misses in exchange for Bolt Strike's sheer power, Gigaton Hammer OHKOes Fairyceus and hits neutral targets almost as hard as CC, and Glacial Lance OHKOes Gliscor and Salamence. As for priority options, Extreme Speed generally 2HKOes chipped foes so you can sometimes guarantee value off of a revenge kill, while Mach Punch OHKOes slightly chipped Lucario. 100 Speed isn't fast, especially with Medicham's crappy bulk, but it's not as bad as in base BH because Speed tiers are generally lower.

Ursaluna @ Flame Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe OR 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant / Brave Nature
IVs: 31 Spe OR 0 Spe
- Facade
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Axe
- Strength Sap

Somewhat outclassed by Gliscor but you can probably pair the two together just fine, since Gliscor favors Spikes anyway and can provide hazard removal/run sweeper sets as needed. The one time I tried running this I got smashed by TR Rampardos so you can run min Speed for that if you want.

Other (mostly untested) sets: Modest Specs BOR Flutter/Banded or Growth Chlorophyll Reshiram in Sun, Banded Kingdra in Rain, Stench Lopunny, Scales Clodsire, FurScales Tornadus-T, Banded Steelworker Perrserker, FC Manectric, Flame Body/Static Gliscor, Specs Mold Breaker Salamence, Banded Mold Breaker/Sniper/Technician Chien-Pao

__________________________________________________________________

Misc. meta thoughts:

Toxapex is the most splashable mon in the meta, closely followed by Gliscor. Besides Imposter/TH Arceus formes, everything else is an appreciable distance behind. The former should be on most non-HO since its insane bulk with FurScales more than justifies its shortcomings

Ice Scales Toxapex/Ho-Oh invalidate the majority of special breakers seen in base BH

Support/hybrid Gliscor punishes passive walls really harshly but imo those sets are nowhere near banworthy since it's not unreasonably difficult to reduce entry points via strong neutral/reasonably strong Water/Ice-type moves. VD sets are potentially unhealthy enough to warrant discussion though

Audino is WAY worse here than in base BH: Lucario is actually good, Gliscor strongly punishes its passivity, and with generally lower Speed tiers Arceus formes and FurScales Regenerator walls are very strong competition

Likewise, non-Imp blobs kinda suck because Scales Regens and Gliscor exist

Wandering Spirit is far worse than in base BH because custom Wandering Spirit always steals the custom Ability, which is often not Regenerator due to the relative abundance of native-Regen pivoters. Native WS (on Yamask-Galar and Runerigus) steals a random opposing Ability so that isn't reliable either

Salamence/non-Sand Tyranitar are kinda overrated

Assuming Regen + FurScales and/or Toxapex/Ho-Oh don't leave anytime soon, I think we've reached a more or less decent metagame state. The only mons I'd consider hitting right now are Lucario, Gliscor, and some overly strong TR mons (Rampardos? Ampharos? Perrserker?), though I wouldn't count some ridiculously hard hitters with middling Speed (Medicham/Porygon-Z/Charizard Y) out either.

Can you use Photon Geyser on Mega Medicham? I don't know how prevalent screens are, or if you want Mold Breaker on Close Combat regardless.

splodge · Dec 27, 2024

Schpoonman said:
Can you use Photon Geyser on Mega Medicham? I don't know how prevalent screens are, or if you want Mold Breaker on Close Combat regardless.

Photon Geyser is banned

aerobee · Dec 28, 2024

Porygon-Z and Neutralizing Gas are banned from PokeBH!

	aerobee	ANinjaDude	Clas	NoobSpammer	Lysion	rightclicker	The Hisui Region	Result (Y-N-A)
Porygon-Z	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	ABS	BAN	6-0-1 BAN
Neutralizing Gas	BAN	ABS	DNB	BAN	ABS	BAN	DNB	3-2-2 BAN

Thanks to four stackable Ability boosts (Adaptability, Download, Analytic, and Porygon's Ability of choice) and a drawback-less 140BP STAB, Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Porygon-Z could OHKO neutral Arceus formes, nearly OHKO Ice Scales Ho-Oh/Scales AV Toxapex, OHKO Eviolite Imposter with minimal SpD de-EVing, and 2HKO any non-Scales/Tyranitar resists. Foes that could withstand Boomburst would fall victim to coverage (Astral Barrage/Moongeist Beam for Ghosts, Secret Sword/Blue Flare/Armor Cannon for Steels).

:weezing-galar:

Even when restricted Neutralizing Gas could be selected as the custom Ability on native users, meaning native Neutralizing Gas users (mainly Weezing-G) could repeatedly switch in with said Ability (as well as other native Abilities) active. Ability Shield also didn’t protect holders’Abilities from negation via Neutralizing Gas due to Pokebilities’ mechanics. Through negation of opposing passive damage sponge Abilities like Regenerator, Magic Guard, Imposter, and Poison Heal, Neutralizing Gas Knock Off + Salt Cure users could make consistent progress against basically anything that couldn’t offensively threaten it, outlasting the passive defensive cores seen on almost every team.

splodge · Dec 29, 2024

Posting this PokeBH team I made like an hour ago:

To prove I am a strong trainer and not just a guy who cheesed his way to round 7 in CCC, I had to use the fully evolved form of my favourite. Band with Adaptability and Libero, along with strong coverage moves, hit very hard. I already made a post with lots of calcs.

:charizard-mega-y:

I decided to use ZardY to turn Cinderace's V-creates nuclear. Magic Guard is basically the only usable ability on this guy unless you want it to be the nuke, and Life Orb is a nice drawbackless 30% boost to its attacks. I chose Torch Song as my fire STAB as it doesn't have 8 PP and helps it 1v1 lots of stuff. Knock Off is mainly for removing Heavy-Duty Boots and Assault Vests and is just a good move in general. Spikes can punish opposing momentum and has good synergy with Knock Off, and Strength Sap is Strength Sap.

:swalot:

I don't think anyone has ever selected this thing in the teambuilder for anything, and I don't know why I added this to the team, but it's funny.

:lucario-mega:

One of the best sweepers in the tier. I went with Swords Dance over Victory Dance to OHKO Imposter if you're a gamer and win the speed tie, and so if you're not a gamer Cinderace can outspeed Imposter. Protective Pads is for all those stupid Rocky Helmets and Burning Banthismovepleasewarks, and Strength Sap is Strength Sap.

:palkia-origin:

The improof for the 3 offensive mons above. Thunder Cage and Draco Plate Judgement let it improof itself, and Hydro Steam is so I have a water move I can click if sun is up. Strength Sap is Strength Sap.

:toxapex:

Is pex. Acts as another improof for ZardY. I changed Mortal Spin to Rapid Spin after the first battle I'm putting below.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pokebilities-2271616084-13g7dko43msf70x79tpxo2cqfjp2dkwpw Vs aerobee. In this battle Zard had Weather Ball, but I change it because I realised it's mid. I completely forgot about Merciless on Toxapex, so that's why I gave it Rapid Spin.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pokebilities-2271639951-c31nsghjj25eqt93jyo4snsz6imsqpopw?p2 Vs ANinjaDude. Cinderace didn't even do anything in this battle, and Swalot actually put in work.

NoobSpammer · Jan 1, 2025

splodge said:
Posting this PokeBH team I made like an hour ago:

To prove I am a strong trainer and not just a guy who cheesed his way to round 7 in CCC, I had to use the fully evolved form of my favourite. Band with Adaptability and Libero, along with strong coverage moves, hit very hard. I already made a post with lots of calcs.

I decided to use ZardY to turn Cinderace's V-creates nuclear. Magic Guard is basically the only usable ability on this guy unless you want it to be the nuke, and Life Orb is a nice drawbackless 30% boost to its attacks. I chose Torch Song as my fire STAB as it doesn't have 8 PP and helps it 1v1 lots of stuff. Knock Off is mainly for removing Heavy-Duty Boots and Assault Vests and is just a good move in general. Spikes can punish opposing momentum and has good synergy with Knock Off, and Strength Sap is Strength Sap.

I don't think anyone has ever selected this thing in the teambuilder for anything, and I don't know why I added this to the team, but it's funny.

One of the best sweepers in the tier. I went with Swords Dance over Victory Dance to OHKO Imposter if you're a gamer and win the speed tie, and so if you're not a gamer Cinderace can outspeed Imposter. Protective Pads is for all those stupid Rocky Helmets and Burning Banthismovepleasewarks, and Strength Sap is Strength Sap.

The improof for the 3 offensive mons above. Thunder Cage and Draco Plate Judgement let it improof itself, and Hydro Steam is so I have a water move I can click if sun is up. Strength Sap is Strength Sap.

Is pex. Acts as another improof for ZardY. I changed Mortal Spin to Rapid Spin after the first battle I'm putting below.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pokebilities-2271616084-13g7dko43msf70x79tpxo2cqfjp2dkwpw Vs aerobee. In this battle Zard had Weather Ball, but I change it because I realised it's mid. I completely forgot about Merciless on Toxapex, so that's why I gave it Rapid Spin.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9pokebilities-2271639951-c31nsghjj25eqt93jyo4snsz6imsqpopw?p2 Vs ANinjaDude. Cinderace didn't even do anything in this battle, and Swalot actually put in work.

Ok, so the Swalot set is funny, though I'd just like to add that Ability Shield is a very common item in this meta. It thus prevents Swalot from Skill Swapping, and now its kinda useless. It's a good sap blocker or sap revenger rather, but just use MBounce. Swalot also might be better as a setup sweeper.

NoobSpammer · Jan 2, 2025

TSPOKEAAA UPDATE

Yay! It's been a while, so let's get to it. The TSPOKEAAA council would like to present it's newest member, SplodgeOfChippy! Welcome to the council!

splodge · Jan 2, 2025

Yay I'm finally on a council
I've only played TSPokeAAA like once but here are some things I have to say:
:pecharunt:

can probably be freed because it's OU now and it's legal in regular PokeAAA
:ninetales-alola:

might be broken now that it's NU and already gets a built in defence and evasion boost
:torkoal:

is another weather setter that just dropped to NU, not sure if it will be broken though
:kyurem-black:

and

aren't supposed to be banned but are in the code (doing +Kyurem-Black, +Kyurem-White should fix it)

aerobee · Jan 3, 2025

As nothing stands out as immediately banworthy but multiple conscientious elements are legal in PokeBH, the metagame is having its first community survey, which is linked below:

PokeBH Survey 1/2025

The deadline to fill out this survey is Sunday, January 12th at 11:59pm GMT-5.

NoobSpammer · Jan 3, 2025

aerobee said:
As nothing stands out as immediately banworthy but multiple conscientious elements are legal in PokeBH, the metagame is having its first community survey, which is linked below:

PokeBH Survey 1/2025

The deadline to fill out this survey is Sunday, January 12th at 11:59pm GMT-5.

OMG TEMP

NoobSpammer · Jan 3, 2025

TSPOKEAAA UPDATE
again?

We are proud to present our second newest council member, Fynx Der Fuchs! They will surely bring a lot to the table, and welcome!

aerobee · Jan 6, 2025

A couple PokeBH teams before tiering as a result of our survey:

Solid team that you can outplay basically everything with. (Unfortunately) Regenerator + FurScales is legal so one can run Regenspam without much repercussion, and Zekrom/Lopunny are surprisingly potent complements to Regenspam since opposing Imposter can provide entry points for both mons and both are tough to consistently wall (Zekrom requires specific mons or Burn via Bulwark/Beak Blast, while Lopunny can flinch through stuff with Stench PopBomb). A bit weak to Band SoR Lucario/physical Ice moves/Garchomp but, again, nothing you can't outplay.

:zekrom:

: Actually really hard to wall without Steelix, since all the answers (Mega Altaria, Ting-Lu, to an extent Ferrothorn) rely on Zekrom running Glaive Rush to complement Bolt Strike so they can survive a hit and retaliate. Glacial Lance OHKOes Altaria and Gliscor unboosted, KOes Ting-Lu at +1, occasionally grants Zekrom safe attacks against Bulwark users, and also KOes everything you'd want Glaive Rush hitting. Most games that aren't dragged out end with a Zekrom sweep. Should probably be banned.

:steelix-mega:

: There aren't many options to Improof Zekrom/Lopunny, but luckily Steelix exists and isn't actually that bad since you underspeed most slow pivots and annoy some of the most common defensive mons (Toxapex, Altaria, Steels, Imposter in general if you count that, Ho-Oh if you're already in and healthy). You can also randomly sponge SE hits to make foes you theoretically cannot reliably answer generally less of a nuisance.

:toxapex:

: AV Scales Toxapex blanket checks every special mon bar sufficiently strong foes with STAB SE moves/Moongeist and insanely strong Mold Breaker stuff. Bog standard set.

:altaria-mega:

: Also standard, and a decently hard STAB-only Zekrom check. I haven't clicked Nuzzle very much but the move restricts opposing safe plays a decent amount, and Steelix completely Improofs which is nice. PixiSpin/Boomburst are always good.

:hydrapple:

: An actually good AShield user since you can't have your item removed. Matcha Gotcha is kinda whatever but the random burns (that can also potentially bypass Magic Bounce) are occasionally useful and you dissuade opposing Imposter from trying to sit on you for eternity. Topsy (can be Haze) because you still need setup counterplay beyond raw bulk, while Spikes is theoretically useful though most teams remove too easily to really make use of them. You can also run Strength Sap on Regenerator users without much consequence since you have alternative means of regaining health when against Sapblockers.

:lopunny-mega:

: Kinda janky set, but if you don't mind tight playing it gets the job done. King's Rock/Razor Fang are actually banned so you have to use Stench, but that's actually not as bad as it might sound. PopBomb after Coil has a ~65% chance to flinch once (and a ~42% chance to flinch twice), meaning you can sometimes just BS your way through on-paper checks, especially without immunities. Of course, a weighted coinflip is still unreliable for the Lopunny user, but the 65% flinch chance means this exchange is often in the user's favor. Knock serves two purposes: to remove opposing Helmets for the purposes of breaking/sweeping, and removing items in general (especially Ability Shield for Zekrom) whenever Lopunny gets the opportunity to do so (which is decently often given Regenspam enabling the longer games that Leftovers tends to be more impactful in). Encore lets you come in on bulky setup users and gain a couple turns' worth of Leftovers recovery at worst (and potentially safely set up Coil); importantly, Imposter can't directly heal if they happen to hardswap in, over other potential options like Strength Sap. Improofed by Steelix/Hydrapple, though PopBomb flinches against Steelix might mean you encounter (favorable) mindgames with Bulwark/Sap if you're chipped enough.

________________________________________________________________________________

Other teams:

Stole the idea from ANinjaDude. Booster Energy boosts actually aren't copied by Imposter, meaning Booster Speed makes you self-Improof as long as you OHKO opposing Imposter. Treads has very good STABs despite the underwhelming stats (and de-EVing necessary for Imposter), Flutter is Flutter (and with Booster can sometimes outspeed Weather mons), and Roaring Moon hits acceptably hard with STAB and Sunsteel, the latter of which OHKOes Fairyceus. Lucario provides speed control while also serving as a potential entry point for Treads. Gimmicky as fuck on paper but the couple times I've brought this it's worked.

252+ Atk Choice Band Stakeout Tera Normal Gumshoos Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Arceus: 460-560 (103.6 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

You deal the same damage to non-FC if they stay in as well, so if you get Gumshoos in on a slower neutral non-Bulwark/FC foe chances are you're forcing a 5050 (opponent has a Ghost/healthy FC resist) or you're grabbing a KO. Actually strong priority is also highly valuable. Sableye/Toxapex Improof just hard enough that you can reliably send Gumshoos in if the former's healthy. MG Knock Lucario brings Helmet users (Toxapex/MG Ho-Oh) in and removes items. DesoLand Ho-Oh + Ting-Lu have amazing synergy, and the former screws weather over pretty effectively. Just try to set hazards early against BoR Charizard Y/DesoLand Chi-Yu.

ANinjaDude · Thursday at 5:27 AM

click on pokemon for importables

Have you ever sat down and thought, "Gee, I wish my Simple pokemon didn't have to worry about improofing," or "I wish I had some extra speed control on this team?" Well you're in luck, because Today I'll be breaking down exactly how to solve both of those issues with two simple words.

Booster Energy :Booster Energy:

Why use Booster Energy? It, when combined with Protosynthesis or Quark Drive, allows your pokemon to both beat their own Imposter with the correct EVing, and also give you some emergency speed control for their sweeper at +1, or maybe even 2. Now, you may be wondering, what Booster Energy pokemon are there that you could possibly use in such a high-powered meta like PokeBH? Well, dear citizen reading this post on www.smogon.com/forums/threads/om-mashup-megathread.3711916, I'm glad you asked this, for I have compiled a list of pokemon that can use this, and even created sets and EVed them to beat their own Imposter, for your viewing and usage enjoyment.

First off, we have Flutter Mane, a pokemon whose high Special Attack and Speed comboes with its threatening STAB combo of Ghost/Fairy to create a lethal offensive pokemon, and now, it can't even be stopped by Imposter. The combination of Astral Barrage and Moonblast 2HKOs almost the entire tier, with Pain Split making it incredibly hard for pink blobs like:Audino-Mega, Chansey, or Blissey to stop you. The provided spread always OHKOs Eviolite Imposter from full after a Nasty Plot with Astral Barrage, Moongeist Beam can't quite OHKO Imposter, so I would advise against its use.

Next, we have the Big Gouger, who I think might be getting slept on a little because of Reshiram. Reshiram might be the better sun pick, but this Gouging Fire set is incredibly dangerous after just a single Swords Dance. Glaive Rush is a great STAB, and while normally the Fire STAB of choice is V-Create, Simple and Booster Energy both anti-synergize with it, so instead I've opted for Pyro Ball. Sunsteel Strike threatens any Fairies or FC pokemon that would try to slow you down, and because of your natural Fire typing, you're even able to spam contact moves like Sunsteel Strike or Glaive Rush without being scared of Bulwark.

Boulder has a rather unique set of traits that I think makes it a good user of Simple+Booster Energy. It's very fast, it has SE STAB on Toxapex and Ho-Oh, and it has STAB that punishes Bulwark usage heavily. You could theoretically swap out Headlong Rush for Precipice Blades to counter Bulwark Steels if you feel lucky, or Gigaton Hammer to allow you to run a lot more EVs in Defense(instead of having to use 0 EV/19 IV Hasty, you could use 96 EV/31 IV Jolly), but then Imposters could switch out on the Gigaton, sack a different pokemon to it, and kill you with Gigaton in return, so I woudn't personally recommend it. I wouldn't recommend using Sunsteel Strike over Headlong Rush either, as it cannot quite OHKO Imposter.

Bundle sports probably the most unique spread I've made for any of these pokemon, but it hits a few critical benchmarks. Modest 212 Special Attack is stronger than Timid 252 on Iron Bundle, while also still allowing for Booster Energy to boost Speed. This increased Special Attack also allows you to run more Special Defense EVs (176 vs 124) while still always OHKOing Imposter with Electro Drift. Freeze-Dry and Ice Beam are both very solid Ice STABs for Bundle, and Steam Eruption is a good secondary STAB.

Not too much to say about this one, it's a fast Booster mon weak to Electro Drift, so Improofing is pretty easy, don't know if I'd use it vs any of the Scales mons in the meta, but I think it has a chance to be able to do some interesting things.

Another fairly simple set, STAB Flower Trick hits like a truck, Attack Order makes Improofing simple, Triple Arrows slam Steels. You could very easily swap out Flower Trick for a Psychic STAB like Psychic Fangs or Psyblade if you need to hit Toxapex.

This is the first of two pokemon that I've cooked two different sets for, but unlike the one coming up, both of the two sets are fairly similar. Malignant Chain+Fire STAB(can be Torch Song, Armor Cannon, Blue Flare, etc)+Improofing Move+NPlot. The difference comes primarily in the EVs necessary for the two different Improofing Moves(Psystrike and Earth Power). The other main difference is that Psystrike is slightly better into blobs like Blissey/Chansey, and Earth Power is better into Mega Tyranitar, so just pick whichever suits your team best.

Another good user of Simple+Booster Energy, Iron Treads has STAB SE on itself for easy Improofing, and also has STAB Sunsteel Strike, making it a super threatening pokemon, especially as the pokemon you'd ordinarily use for checking Ground/Steel moves in PokeBH, Ho-Oh, gets eviscerated by +4 Mighty Cleave.

The second pokemon that I've cooked up two sets for, and probably the most flexible pokemon on this list, Iron Valiant is in a very unique position, where as long as it runs Fairy STAB for self-proofing, it can really use whatever two coverage moves it wants. Glacial Lance for Gliscor, Electro Drift for Ho-Oh/Toxapex, Precipice Blades for Mega Steelix, you get the idea. It can easily pick apart just about any team with the right coverage moves. Very scary pokemon, don't sleep on this.

A pokemon that I'm not as sure about, Raging Bolt feels like just worse Miraidon/Ampharos-Mega, but it might be able to leverage its 409 speed tier after Booster and Simple Nasty Plot to do something. Fairly basic moveset, could probably be experimented with more.

Another Dragon, this time a bit faster and stronger than Gouging, but a lot worse into Fairies, Roaring Moon can threaten to seriously mess with most teams with Glaive Rush/Knock Off/Sunsteel Strike, and can also switch out Knock Off for Wicked Blow if you want to sacrifice utility for raw damage output. Another scary pokemon, does feel a little awkward to set up at the moment, and hates Bulwark 50/50s, but definitely keep an eye on this mon.

A pokemon I haven't experimented with much, inspired by Slothy0wl's usage of it on a rain team a couple weeks back, Sandy Shocks is a fairly simple pokemon for my purposes. Fast, STAB Electro Drift, SE STAB on itself for easy Improofing, and then a flex slot to do whatever it wants with. Could do with some tinkering, and feels a little frail, but isn't a bad pokemon by any means.

Velcroc · Thursday at 6:37 AM

Can confirm. I get goobed by quark drivers on the regular

splodge · Saturday at 4:17 AM

ANinjaDude said:
click on pokemon for importables
Have you ever sat down and thought, "Gee, I wish my Simple pokemon didn't have to worry about improofing," or "I wish I had some extra speed control on this team?" Well you're in luck, because Today I'll be breaking down exactly how to solve both of those issues with two simple words.

Booster Energy

Why use Booster Energy? It, when combined with Protosynthesis or Quark Drive, allows your pokemon to both beat their own Imposter with the correct EVing, and also give you some emergency speed control for their sweeper at +1, or maybe even 2. Now, you may be wondering, what Booster Energy pokemon are there that you could possibly use in such a high-powered meta like PokeBH? Well, dear citizen reading this post on www.smogon.com/forums/threads/om-mashup-megathread.3711916, I'm glad you asked this, for I have compiled a list of pokemon that can use this, and even created sets and EVed them to beat their own Imposter, for your viewing and usage enjoyment.

First off, we have Flutter Mane, a pokemon whose high Special Attack and Speed comboes with its threatening STAB combo of Ghost/Fairy to create a lethal offensive pokemon, and now, it can't even be stopped by Imposter. The combination of Astral Barrage and Moonblast 2HKOs almost the entire tier, with Pain Split making it incredibly hard for pink blobs like:Audino-Mega, Chansey, or Blissey to stop you. The provided spread always OHKOs Eviolite Imposter from full after a Nasty Plot with Astral Barrage, Moongeist Beam can't quite OHKO Imposter, so I would advise against its use.

Next, we have the Big Gouger, who I think might be getting slept on a little because of Reshiram. Reshiram might be the better sun pick, but this Gouging Fire set is incredibly dangerous after just a single Swords Dance. Glaive Rush is a great STAB, and while normally the Fire STAB of choice is V-Create, Simple and Booster Energy both anti-synergize with it, so instead I've opted for Pyro Ball. Sunsteel Strike threatens any Fairies or FC pokemon that would try to slow you down, and because of your natural Fire typing, you're even able to spam contact moves like Sunsteel Strike or Glaive Rush without being scared of Bulwark.

Boulder has a rather unique set of traits that I think makes it a good user of Simple+Booster Energy. It's very fast, it has SE STAB on Toxapex and Ho-Oh, and it has STAB that punishes Bulwark usage heavily. You could theoretically swap out Headlong Rush for Precipice Blades to counter Bulwark Steels if you feel lucky, or Gigaton Hammer to allow you to run a lot more EVs in Defense(instead of having to use 0 EV/19 IV Hasty, you could use 96 EV/31 IV Jolly), but then Imposters could switch out on the Gigaton, sack a different pokemon to it, and kill you with Gigaton in return, so I woudn't personally recommend it. I wouldn't recommend using Sunsteel Strike over Headlong Rush either, as it cannot quite OHKO Imposter.

Bundle sports probably the most unique spread I've made for any of these pokemon, but it hits a few critical benchmarks. Modest 212 Special Attack is stronger than Timid 252 on Iron Bundle, while also still allowing for Booster Energy to boost Speed. This increased Special Attack also allows you to run more Special Defense EVs (176 vs 124) while still always OHKOing Imposter with Electro Drift. Freeze-Dry and Ice Beam are both very solid Ice STABs for Bundle, and Steam Eruption is a good secondary STAB.

Not too much to say about this one, it's a fast Booster mon weak to Electro Drift, so Improofing is pretty easy, don't know if I'd use it vs any of the Scales mons in the meta, but I think it has a chance to be able to do some interesting things.

Another fairly simple set, STAB Flower Trick hits like a truck, Attack Order makes Improofing simple, Triple Arrows slam Steels. You could very easily swap out Flower Trick for a Psychic STAB like Psychic Fangs or Psyblade if you need to hit Toxapex.

This is the first of two pokemon that I've cooked two different sets for, but unlike the one coming up, both of the two sets are fairly similar. Malignant Chain+Fire STAB(can be Torch Song, Armor Cannon, Blue Flare, etc)+Improofing Move+NPlot. The difference comes primarily in the EVs necessary for the two different Improofing Moves(Psystrike and Earth Power). The other main difference is that Psystrike is slightly better into blobs like Blissey/Chansey, and Earth Power is better into Mega Tyranitar, so just pick whichever suits your team best.

Another good user of Simple+Booster Energy, Iron Treads has STAB SE on itself for easy Improofing, and also has STAB Sunsteel Strike, making it a super threatening pokemon, especially as the pokemon you'd ordinarily use for checking Ground/Steel moves in PokeBH, Ho-Oh, gets eviscerated by +4 Mighty Cleave.

The second pokemon that I've cooked up two sets for, and probably the most flexible pokemon on this list, Iron Valiant is in a very unique position, where as long as it runs Fairy STAB for self-proofing, it can really use whatever two coverage moves it wants. Glacial Lance for Gliscor, Electro Drift for Ho-Oh/Toxapex, Precipice Blades for Mega Steelix, you get the idea. It can easily pick apart just about any team with the right coverage moves. Very scary pokemon, don't sleep on this.

A pokemon that I'm not as sure about, Raging Bolt feels like just worse Miraidon/Ampharos-Mega, but it might be able to leverage its 409 speed tier after Booster and Simple Nasty Plot to do something. Fairly basic moveset, could probably be experimented with more.

Another Dragon, this time a bit faster and stronger than Gouging, but a lot worse into Fairies, Roaring Moon can threaten to seriously mess with most teams with Glaive Rush/Knock Off/Sunsteel Strike, and can also switch out Knock Off for Wicked Blow if you want to sacrifice utility for raw damage output. Another scary pokemon, does feel a little awkward to set up at the moment, and hates Bulwark 50/50s, but definitely keep an eye on this mon.

A pokemon I haven't experimented with much, inspired by Slothy0wl's usage of it on a rain team a couple weeks back, Sandy Shocks is a fairly simple pokemon for my purposes. Fast, STAB Electro Drift, SE STAB on itself for easy Improofing, and then a flex slot to do whatever it wants with. Could do with some tinkering, and feels a little frail, but isn't a bad pokemon by any means.

I also can confirm these are real, yesterday I got 6-0d by a lead SD iVal with my other Cinderace team

NoobSpammer · Saturday at 7:06 AM

splodge said:
I also can confirm these are real, yesterday I got 6-0d by a lead SD iVal with my other Cinderace team

Your welcome.

aerobee · Sunday at 2:06 PM

STAAABmons Tiering!

STAAABmons tiering was stagnant since before DLC2, leaving it in a perpetually unbalanced state. Therefore, we've attempted to generally lower the power level via banning clearly overpowered Pokemon, restricting potentially problematic moves, and banning a few Abilities. This is meant to serve as a starting point for future tiering, and the metagame might not necessarily be fully balanced even after the below changes. These changes also maybe revisited in the future.

New bans/restricts:

Darkrai
Gouging Fire
Ho-Oh
Keldeo
Kyurem
Latios
Lugia
Lunala
Magearna
Manaphy
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Raging Bolt
Regigigas
Reshiram
Shaymin-Sky
Solgaleo
Volcarona
Zekrom

Boomburst
Ceaseless Edge
Dragon Energy
Electro Shot
Eruption
Final Gambit
Glacial Lance
Jet Punch
Lumina Crash
Quiver Dance
Population Bomb
Rising Voltage
Surging Strikes
Tail Glow
Take Heart
Triple Arrows
Water Shuriken
Water Spout
Wicked Torque

Hadron Engine
Toxic Debris
Triage

Unbans:

Chi-Yu
Gengar
Gholdengo
Great Tusk
Hariyama
Iron Hands
Zoroark-Hisui

aerobee · Monday at 12:35 AM

PokeBH Survey Results (+ Tiering!)

Huge thanks to everyone who participated to PokeBH's first ever tiering survey! Here are the results:

How much do you enjoy PokeBH currently?

Average: 7.29/10

This is pretty high! We're glad people are enjoying the metagame and are committed to keeping it fun.

How competitive do you think PokeBH is currently?

Average: 7.57/10

Even higher! It helps that most of the potentially banworthy game elements are simply overpowered, rather than uncompetitive matchup fishes, and that currently major constraints on SV BH, like 8 PP recovery and the potency of passive damage, are overall less pronounced in PokeBH.

Is Regenerator + FurScales banworthy?

Close to a 50-50 split, with a slight bias in favor of tiering action. While helping to keep other problematic elements in check, Regenerator + FurScales is arguably overcentralizing and a ban would likely increase the diversity of viable team structures.

Is Gliscor banworthy?

Pretty strong lean towards no action. In addition to Gliscor's sets (outside of perhaps VD) being clearly manageable, a high-tier Ground/Flying Poison Heal user has a positive metagame impact in discouraging passive teambuilding cores.

Is Ho-Oh (no Regen + FurScales ban) banworthy?

This is honestly much more pro-Ban than I personally expected, and we only included it for if people largely opposed Regenerator + FurScales and Toxapex bans but believed Ho-Oh to be banworthy. As such, we didn't vote on it this slate.

Is Lucario-Mega banworthy?

A 50-50 with relatively high uncertainty. While normally tiering action wouldn't be pursued in this situation, general sentiment among the playerbase seemed to move towards favoring a ban so we voted on Lucario.

Is Toxapex (no Regen + FurScales ban) banworthy?

A rather surprising result to me. Toxapex would've escaped a council vote regardless of whether Regenerator + FurScales was voted on or not.

Is Burning Bulwark banworthy?

Another honestly surprising result. The relative prevalence of non-AV Regenerator users and contact move attackers makes Burning Bulwark more potent than in SV BH, making it all the more contentious.

Is Victory Dance banworthy?

Another 50-50. Unlike in SV BH, some healthy Victory Dance users (Gliscor, Ho-Oh, Kingambit) are innately favored against healthy Strength Sap users, making such sets generally more difficult to handle.

Any other potentially banworthy elements?

Regenerator > 1/2 – 2
Simple – 1
Stench – 1

A Regenerator clause and Simple weren't voted on because the council believed a FurScales ban to be favorable to artificial constraints to building and because no council member was yet convinced that Simple was an issue.

________________________________________________

A vote was held on the more problematic elements listed in the survey (save for Ho-Oh), with the additions of Zekrom and restricting Stench due to the latter two's contentiousness. The results are below:

:sv/toxapex:

Regenerator + FurScales, Lucario-Mega, Zekrom, and Burning Bulwark are banned from PokeBH! Stench is now restricted!

	aerobee	ANinjaDude	Clas	NoobSpammer	Lysion	rightclicker	The Hisui Region	Result (Y-N-A)
Regen + FurScales	BAN	BAN	BAN	DNB	BAN	ABS	BAN	6-1-0 BAN
Lucario-Mega	BAN	ABS	DNB	DNB	BAN	BAN	BAN	4-2-1 BAN
Zekrom	BAN	BAN	BAN	ABS	BAN	BAN	BAN	6-0-1 BAN
Burning Bulwark	BAN	BAN	BAN	DNB	BAN	BAN	DNB	5-2-0 BAN
Victory Dance	BAN	ABS	DNB	DNB	DNB	DNB	ABS	1-4-2 DNB
Restrict Stench	YES	YES	YES	YES	YES	YES	YES	7-0-0 RESTRICT

Running Fur Coat/Ice Scales on a native Regenerator user allowed most teams to run functional defensive cores relying on said Pokemon, making wearing them down via passive damage near impossible. This centralized the metagame around Regenspam, breakers that could threaten the most prevalent native Regenerator users, and moves easily usable on Regenerator users that otherwise wouldn't be as spammable, such as Salt Cure and protection moves. We didn't vote on Ho-Oh specifically because of Regen + FurScales' current metagame impact; if deemed necessary we will take action on Ho-Oh in the future.

:lucario-mega:

Lucario was a ridiculously strong breaker with only Fur Coat users resisting Sunsteel Strike/Gigaton Hammer (or well-played Ability Shield Hydrapple) existing as reliable defensive counterplay. Kartana was arguably broken by the same elements so if any additional Pokemon (particularly Metagross/Perrserker) are considered broken in the future we may consider banning Sunsteel/Gigaton.

:zekrom:

Setup Zekrom had very little defensive counterplay, with most neutral walls getting OHKOed at +1 by LO Sword of Ruin/Adaptability sets and most other potential answers losing to Glacial Lance (over Glaive Rush). Imposter could soft-check if at full and Eviolite intact but that could not be considered reliable counterplay, especially with an easily Improof in Mega Steelix existing. Ability Shield users were also prone to being made impotent via item removal.

:gouging-fire:

Burning Bulwark promoted 50-50s between the Bulwark user and contact move attackers made effectively insignificant by Burns, making it much more unhealthy than other Protect move variants. Already controversial in base BH, Bulwark could be more easily ran thanks to the relative abundance of non-AV Regenerator users and contact move attackers.

:trubbish:

Stench was mainly used with Population Bomb, as King's Rock/Razor Fang were already banned and the move had a 65% chance to flinch after an accuracy boost. While such sets were either threatened by opposing Rocky Helmet users or difficult to Imposter-proof, this combination nevertheless allowed users to cheese past on-paper counterplay with a couple of convenient flinches and opposing Helmets could be removed via Knock Off.

NoobSpammer · Monday at 5:13 PM

A PokeBH Team that I really like:

Explanations to what each member does~
Arceus-Fairy :arceus-fairy:

A great mon in regular BH, and I decided to go with the Judgement set because I felt like being immune to Knock was better than running a weaker move with more PP and having Lefties recovery. Not much to say, it selfproofs quite well by stalling out Imposter :chansey:

and trapping with Thunder Cage.

Blissey :blissey:

Why Blissey? :blissey:

I do credit The Hisui Region for this as they used to use Shed Shell Imp. I also recently have gotten into Gen 7 PH so I felt like Shed Shell was a pretty good Imposter item. It just so happened aerobee sent out a post advertising about Spirit Shackle Ho-Oh :ho-oh:

, so I felt like it could work as a good ~~cteam~~ against those types of sets.

Kingambit :kingambit:

A really underlooked mon in PokeBH, Supreme Underlord is no joke, and it can sweep. V Dance, Spirit Shackle to trap, and Pressure is really nice to PP Stall Imp faster. Opted for FC to help take Gigatons, though aerobee suggest Power Trip which works just as fine. Defiant comes in handy to get attack boosts and be immune to Sap attack drops.

Ho-Oh :ho-oh:

A standard MG utility set, as I am writing this the council has its eyes towards Ho-Oh which partly explains why I am writing this now. With the people on the council banning RegenFurScales aka 99% of my teams are illegal now, this is one of the only good ones left that are still legal.

Gliscor :gliscor:

Not much to say other than its a Pheal mon. Trade Salt Cure and Knock with Imp though make sure you get Knocked only when you are poisoned. Spiky Shield was Bulwark, but with Bulwark ban, I had to change it to something else.

Eternatus :eternatus:

Regen set that has Dragon Energy as its main move, with chip stuff, pairs well with Ho-Oh IMO as a dual Regen core.

~~ANinjaDude cteaming you~~
stuff like Nasty Plot simple
super strong HO that can just wallbreak you

Hah! Got you to click! In all seriousness I don't save replays. I think I have one of beating splodge somewhere though its somewhere lol

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Meta thoughts
Combining this post with my meta thoughts just so I don't take up too much space double posting and get accused of that warcrime
Overall, I like the meta rn, and the recent banslates, though I'm not that happy that RegenFurScales got banned. I personally didn't care about Bulwark :gouging fire:

and Lucario ban :lucario-mega:

, but RegenFurScales getting banned seem a bit too far. Personally, I'm not a stall guy like aerobee, but I felt like the current meta with RegenFurScales was a good meta, and this sudden shift of banning seemed too far. I had proposed a limit to 2-3 because I don't like RegenSpam teams ~~ahem ANinjaDude.~~ but yeah it is what it is

Project OM Mashup Megathread

NoobSpammer

splodge

rightclicker

HARDWAREZ

ANinjaDude

aerobee

Pure Hackmons

aerobee

Pure Hackmons

NoobSpammer

Schpoonman

splodge

aerobee

Pure Hackmons

splodge

NoobSpammer

NoobSpammer

splodge

aerobee

Pure Hackmons

NoobSpammer

NoobSpammer

aerobee

Pure Hackmons

ANinjaDude

Velcroc

We're just palaces made out of flesh and bone

splodge

NoobSpammer

aerobee

Pure Hackmons

aerobee

Pure Hackmons

NoobSpammer