NU Viability Rankings

[Marrrrrrrrrr]

C+ up to B-

I think this is a little low. Slowbro and Fighting types are running rampant right now. Offensive Electric types are rare at the moment, the only one is Rotom-Mow, and the two Pokemon perform different roles (Rotom-Mow is a Choice wallbreaker, Raichu-Alola is a Nasty Plot sweeper). It easily sets up Nasty Plot on the super dominant Slowbro, and Thunderbolt/Psychic/Focus Blast is resisted by few. How few, do you ask? In S through A-, the only defensive answer is Uxie, which is still 2HKOed by 2+ Thunderbolt and can't really do anything back, so I guess it's not really a proper defensive answer after all. While Sneasel may be a problem for it, it's in a similar vein to Clawitzer in which it has a good matchup against stall and has few defensive answers, and while it struggles against offense, IMO its positives are enough to push it out of the rank with garbage like Oricorio-Baile.

C+ down to C

One word describes it perfectly: Outclassed. I'm not sure why I would ever use this over any other Fighting type like Hitmonlee, Machamp, Toxicroak, or the best example, Sawk. I think it's safe to say that Sawk is its main competition. Sawk has better offensive stats, and while that's only +5 to Attack and Speed, that's still enough to outclass Passimian. Also, the Choice Scarf set has to predict absolutely perfectly if it wants to beat anything or it's toast. It has U-turn but that's the only reason worth using Passimian, and it's hard walled by Slowbro.

C- down to Unranked

I see zero reason to ever use Manectric. Its only niche over Raichu-Alola is Overheat to hit Steelix, and Raichu-Alola has Focus Blast anyway.

 

[Yasuo]

C+ up to B-

I think this is a little low. Slowbro and Fighting types are running rampant right now. Offensive Electric types are rare at the moment, the only one is Rotom-Mow, and the two Pokemon perform different roles (Rotom-Mow is a Choice wallbreaker, Raichu-Alola is a Nasty Plot sweeper). It easily sets up Nasty Plot on the super dominant Slowbro, and Thunderbolt/Psychic/Focus Blast is resisted by few. How few, do you ask? In S through A-, the only defensive answer is Uxie, which is still 2HKOed by 2+ Thunderbolt and can't really do anything back, so I guess it's not really a proper defensive answer after all. While Sneasel may be a problem for it, it's in a similar vein to Clawitzer in which it has a good matchup against stall and has few defensive answers, and while it struggles against offense, IMO its positives are enough to push it out of the rank with garbage like Oricorio-Baile.

C+ down to C

One word describes it perfectly: Outclassed. I'm not sure why I would ever use this over any other Fighting type like Hitmonlee, Machamp, Toxicroak, or the best example, Sawk. I think it's safe to say that Sawk is its main competition. Sawk has better offensive stats, and while that's only +5 to Attack and Speed, that's still enough to outclass Passimian. Also, the Choice Scarf set has to predict absolutely perfectly if it wants to beat anything or it's toast. It has U-turn but that's the only reason worth using Passimian, and it's hard walled by Slowbro.

C- down to Unranked

I see zero reason to ever use Manectric. Its only niche over Raichu-Alola is Overheat to hit Steelix, and Raichu-Alola has Focus Blast anyway.

Manectric could use Switcheroo to give some defensive things a choiced item. Manectric also outspeeds Meloetta, Whimsicott, Sneasel and some other mons Raichu can't without a Scarf.

Disagree to unrank Manectric

 

[GeneralAnnoyance]

Manectric could use Switcheroo to give some defensive things a choiced item. Manectric also outspeeds Meloetta, Whimsicott, Sneasel and some other mons Raichu can't without a Scarf.

Disagree to unrank Manectric

Manectric is base 105. It doesn't outspeed whimsicott or sneasel. Also, choiced electrics without a secondary typing are exploitable by common ground types so something like life orb is the set that it would be running.

 

[Martin]

I agree with the Slowbro nomination. When I'm facing Slowbro, it always seems to find some way of causing trouble for me; it can't be Pursuit trapped very reliably thanks to Colbur and its outstanding physical bulk, and even if its Colbur gets consumed it still causes issues for all of the common users due to how they all get crippled by Scald burns; it is versatile, it checks a lot of Pokemon who are very dangerous at this time (and can do so repeatedly due to having both reliable recovery and Recover, which is really huge given just how easy it is to wear down a lot of Pokemon in this metagame), and it just generally provides a lot of utility and flexibility in general, being very easy to plug onto teams and almost invariably being a huge annoyance in the process.

Manectric also outspeeds Meloetta, Whimsicott, Sneasel and some other mons Raichu can't without a Scarf.

This statement confuses me on the basis that Alolan Raichu is base 110, which is actively faster than Manectric's 105, and as GeneralAnnoyance said it also doesn't outrun either Whimsi or Sneasel. Did you think it was base 130? (If yes you're probably confusing it with Jolteon.)

 

[Oda]

Manectric is base 105. It doesn't outspeed whimsicott or sneasel. Also, choiced electrics without a secondary typing are exploitable by common ground types so something like life orb is the set that it would be running.

I assume what he was implying was that manectrics main set being scarfed it could outrun sneasel or whimiscott and hit them hard with something like overheat. Also what people seem to overlook is its ability in Lightning rod making other electrics like the Rotom forms think twice about clicking volt switch and giving Man a free boost.

 

[Vatn]

Hey, I'd like to nominate Probopass from C- to C.

Probopass @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Magnet Rise
- Volt Switch
Honestly, this probably isn't the most efficient set, but it gets the things it needs to do done. C- is too low for Probopass imo, as it brings a lot of utility to the team. The biggest thing it brings to the table is being able to trap Steelix pretty easily, as demonstrated in this replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nubeta-612460604. With Probopass' presence, the opponent will think twice about sending Steelix to tank hits from offensive mons, such as Braviary and Sneasel. Even if the opposing team lacks a Steelix, Probopass is still able to put in work. With max special bulk, Probopass serves as a nice blanket checks to many hard hitters in the tier, such as Vikavolt. Probopass can also reliably set up rocks in most matches. Being able to beat common cores like Golbat+Steelix is always nice as well. Overall, Probopass is a great pokemon that fulfills the useful niche of being able to trap Steelix, set up rocks, and act as a specially defensive wall. Probopass is also able to act as a nice pivot with volt switch, which is nice. Just another short replay showing how Probopass can act as a special wall, and can force mons out in order to set up rocks. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nubeta-612466461

 

[poh]

Hey, I'd like to nominate Probopass from C- to C.

Probopass @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Magnet Rise
- Volt Switch
Honestly, this probably isn't the most efficient set, but it gets the things it needs to do done. C- is too low for Probopass imo, as it brings a lot of utility to the team. The biggest thing it brings to the table is being able to trap Steelix pretty easily, as demonstrated in this replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nubeta-612460604. With Probopass' presence, the opponent will think twice about sending Steelix to tank hits from offensive mons, such as Braviary and Sneasel. Even if the opposing team lacks a Steelix, Probopass is still able to put in work. With max special bulk, Probopass serves as a nice blanket checks to many hard hitters in the tier, such as Vikavolt. Probopass can also reliably set up rocks in most matches. Being able to beat common cores like Golbat+Steelix is always nice as well. Overall, Probopass is a great pokemon that fulfills the useful niche of being able to trap Steelix, set up rocks, and act as a specially defensive wall. Probopass is also able to act as a nice pivot with volt switch, which is nice. Just another short replay showing how Probopass can act as a special wall, and can force mons out in order to set up rocks. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nubeta-612466461

I think the reason why Probopass shouldn't rise is because the meta didn't change for it to be any better. Its only niche is to trap Steelix and that's basically it. A lot of our top tier threats are able to beat it with Fighting STAB moves or coverage so it's not even a reliable check to special attackers. Super Fang Golbat can beat it 1v1 and another very important thing: some Steelix run Roar which completely nullifies Probos purpose on a team. It's also setup fodder to Pokemon like Virizion, Slowbro and Vivillon. In my opinion Probopass' niche is so small that C- is perfect for it.

 

[Yasuo]

I assume what he was implying was that manectrics main set being scarfed it could outrun sneasel or whimiscott and hit them hard with something like overheat. Also what people seem to overlook is its ability in Lightning rod making other electrics like the Rotom forms think twice about clicking volt switch and giving Man a free boost.

Accidently looked at Mega-Manectrics speed stat while searching. Stupid fail^^

 

[Christo]

Hi I never post around here but I took at look at the VR and was completely mindblown to see that Vanilluxe was B- rank. Vanilluxe is fucking amazing in this tier. There are slim to no ice resists in NU and a dedicated special wall doesn't exist in this tier either. The preferred set in my opinion is a Modest Scarf set with Blizzard / Freeze Dry / Sleep Talk. With Vanilluxe's stats a Modest Nature is able to outspeed the entire unboosted meta bar the random Accelgor(Timid wouldn't outspeed either). Hitting 350 SpA in combination with a 100% accurate 110 BP Blizzard along with 6% Hail residual and slim to no ice resists, Vanilluxe has literally no switch ins. On top of this, Vanilluxe oddly has decent bulk. I'll show some calcs to support my claims.

Proof Vaniullixe eats hits:
252 SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Vanilluxe: 228-268 (80.5 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Vanilluxe vs what seem like switch ins:
252+ SpA Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Emboar: 123-146 (34 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Emboar can only switch in once and chipping it to be in range after is extremely simple because Flare Blitz recoil and Hail. Also Modest Vanilluxe outspeeds Jolly Scarf Emboar so it is always limited to one switch in
252+ SpA Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sneasel: 111-131 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Easy 2hko after Stealth Rock, outspeed and kill with Scarf
252+ SpA Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 142-168 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage
Nice switch in
252+ SpA Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom: 105-125 (36 - 42.9%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
fuck out my face
252+ SpA Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 165-195 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery
??
Pretty much the only switch in is the uncommon Piloswine, which has no Lefties and is easy to weaken because it is forced to use SR etc

Even though the ice cream is B- I think A/A+ is fitting, I think its that good.

FREE THE ICE CREAM

 

[Blast]

100% agree that Vanilluxe is ridiculously underranked, I was gonna post about it myself but I guess I don't have to anymore :shrug: I'd personally prefer A- if only because of its awkwardish Speed tier and lack of resists, but it should definitely be somewhere in the A ranks. Not much else to say but :ImTriggered:

In general I'd say the highest ranks are pretty accurate, though it starts to get clunkier the lower we go on the list. Not gonna cover every move I think should happen because that'd take way too long, but I'll get into the more important ones.

B- --> A-

While we're on the subject of massive rises, Turtonator should be WAY higher than it is. Highly consistent and powerful sweeper with an amazing typing that is particularly incredible for offense, providing a way to massively punish Choice-locked Fire-, Grass-, and Electric-types. Dragonium Z sets are also pretty capable wallbreakers against teams that it can't necessarily sweep. It's a staple of Aurora Veil teams, one of the metagame's most consistent playstyles, as well as a top-tier threat on various other forms of offense, and its rank should reflect that.

A- --> B+

Sigilyph is in a kinda awkward spot with tight competition from Meloetta and Delphox. Both Melo and Phox are just stronger in terms of raw power, with Melo also being bulkier and more versatile and Phox also being faster. Magic Guard is great and all but unless your team is exceptionally hazard weak I find it a bit hard to justify over stronger wallbreakers.

I feel like Slowking dropping to B+ gets brought up a lot, so I guess just consider this me officially hopping aboard that train. These days it's extremely difficult to justify using Slowking over Slowbro, and its niches are very situational compared to most other A- Pokemon. It's also extremely vulnerable to Fighting-types for a bulky Psychic-type.

Toxicroak doesn't have much to offer over other Fighting-types other than Dry Skin, which is a great ability but there's hardly a shortage of good offensive Water resists in this meta. One of which (Virizion) is even a Fighting-type and gives Toxicroak direct competition with Swords Dance. It's also relatively slow, frail, and relies heavily on Sucker Punch to sweep.

B+ --> A-

An SR setter with priority is really useful for keeping up with an offense-dominant meta, and Piloswine is the best Pokemon that fits that role. Ice Shard is particularly useful in a metagame with so many strong Grass-types. Being an SRer that can heavily pressure Golbat and Xatu ain't bad either.

Samurott has a fair bit of problems this gen but it's still a very good offensive Water-type, and unlike Barbaracle it actually has use early-game. Special sets are extremely difficult to wall, and come with the bonus of being able to revenge kill low health Fire-types with Aqua Jet. SD Rindo Berry is also useful and remains functional in spite of all the Grass-types.

Ok that's all for now, I'll post more Soon™

 

[ceal]

Slowking to B+: Agree
Aside from being mostly outclassed by Slowbro, King's niche has kinda been falling out of favor as of late. AV King is a good special tank looking at it in a vacuum but it fails to check the prominent special attackers bar the offensive psychics, all of which have a way around it bar Sigi (CM Melo sets up on it and beats it 1v1 w/ Sball and Delphox can Bloom Doom or at least trick the scarf away). Otherwise, it's a fighting resist that loses to fighting types and doesn't accomplish mcuh else. TR + NP is a cool set, but it's limited to what builds it can fit on (mostly TR builds) and it's not really big enough to be considered an A- set.

Vanilluxe to somewhere higher: Agree
Not sure if Vanilluxe should make a drastic jump like what others have nommed, but I definitely support a raise. Being a strong special Ice-type when the best resist rn is the faltering Slowking is great, and Vanilluxe can deal with most teams with just Blizzard and Freeze-Dry alone. It also has a surprising amount of versatility, with choice sets, autotomize to late-game clean, Ice Shard sets to take advantage of some decently powerful priority, and a decent amount of filler moves like Explosion, Taunt, Magic Coat, and Toxic. Weakness to rocks, Hail potentially being a double-edged sword for teams, and letting in dangerous mons like Emboar to fire off a free attack are all considerable downsides, which is why I'm hesitant to say to move it to the A ranks rn, but I can be swayed either way.

 

[SPACE FORCE meeps]

rotom-c: a+ -> s

i personally think rotom-c is the best grass-type in the tier and one of the most threatening special attackers in the tier, and i also think the specs set is much better than scarf, but just isn't as popular it. rotom-c shares the same special attack stat as sceptile allowing it to be a potent wallbreaker using leaf storm as well, but its advantages lie in having access to volt switch and electric coverage in general, which allows rotom-c to properly threaten golbat, while also pivoting out of counters like guzzlord and vileplume and also wear down checks like garbodor, delphox, and skuntank. its ability to decimate ground-types with leaf storm also pairs well with the electric coverage as well, as it may allow rotom-c to more freely use volt switch or thunderbolt ladder in the game. having access to trick is also a nice benefit, as it may prevent vileplume and golbat from effectively recovering to and checking rotom-c. rotom-c may not matchup as well against offensive teams as sceptile, being slower than pokemon like hitmonlee, mismagius, and meloetta, but rotom-c's superior ability in breaking down defensive pokemon is why i think it's better than sceptile and also worthy of s-rank

malamar: c+ -> b/b+

malamar is a pretty neat sweeper right now with z-happy hour, boosting all of its stats by 1, making it more difficult to revenge kill. along with being able to do damage and consistently raise its attack and defense with superpower, giving it a nice matchup against teams which use drapion or emboar as revenge killers. it's also pretty neat in breaking down defensive cores with access to taunt, since it prevents pokemon like steelix from roaring or toxicing it, and it prevents pokemon like golbat, vileplume, and slowbro from recovering, while using knock off or superpower as needed to break these pokemon down. its bulk is fairly passible and has a usable speed tier, which does give it some opportunities to setup, despite its defensive typing having one immunity and no resistances.

raticate-alola: c -> b-/b

yeah i nominated to be ranked c/c+ earlier and its been placed in c, but having played more with the sd set, i do believe it should be raised again, especially when compared to absol, a pokemon which raticate-alola is pretty similar to, which currently sits in b-rank right now. raticate-alola's general coverage is better than absol's since dark/normal STAB is unresisted, which is particularly useful in more effectively damaging fighting-type pokemon, its ability to also use a powerful z-double-edge to ko or severely dent a multitude of pokemon without a boost works well for it too (also allows it to 2hko pyukumuku and quagsire, which absol can't do). absol is arguably better at damaging steelix and rhydon, but depending on team needs, raticate-alola can still utilize z-crunch to damage them just as effectively as absol can. raticate-alola's accuracy drawback does put it at a disadvantage compared to absol since it can miss sucker punch, halting potential late game sweeps, but in regards to pure wallbreaking abilities, i think raticate-alola is better than absol.

sableye: c -> unranked

the prankster nerf has really hit sableye hard, as it really can't do much against dark-type pokemon but use knock off, and there is still potential for them to wield z-moves, like drapion, houndoom, scrafty, malamar, and raticate-alola, making sableye a major momentum sap against these pokemon, since it'll be forced to switch out, giving them free turns to setup or attack. sableye does work as a fighting-type check, but it fails to check emboar which is one of the more popular ones currently, and in general, other pokemon like slowbro can check fighting-types more effectively while also providing more general team support.


also just a comment on vanilluxe, i do agree it should rise since it is very potent offensive but probably not higher than b+ given that it is rather difficult to fit on teams due to the lack of defensive synergy it provides

 

[poh]

C+ --> C

Its niche is too small in this meta to justify its rank. Has a very tough time to get past its checks and other Fighting-types like Emboar, Machamp and Hitmonlee offer a lot more. The only thing it has that differenciates itself from other Fighting-types is U-Turn but that's just not enough to thrive in the current meta.

C- --> Unranked

Compared with other Electric-types, Manectric is probably the worst we have. I think its only positives are Overheat and its Speed tier but again that isn't enough in the current meta. Manectric is a very linear mon which hurts it viability even more. Rotom-Mow has an excellent typing and ability and can run different sets like Z-Leaf Storm, Specs/Scarf and even some bulky subsplit wisp set. Vikavolt also has levitate and doesn't struggle with the same checks Manectric has and hits harder. Eelektross isn't the best but also has levitate and has a very colorful movepool to somewhat back up its flaws.

B- --> B+

NU doesn't have good Freeze Dry resists atm and if there are, they just get blasted by blizzard most of the time. Even the Never-Melt Ice boosted Ice Shard can come in handy to revengekill Pokemon like Sceptile and Vivillon. Agreeing with others to let the icecream rise.

C+ --> B-

Time to whine about my favorite bonermon again. Now that Cofagrigus is gone, i think this is our next best otr mon. Good offensive typing, good bulk and very strong combined with strong STAB moves. Also a mon that handles Slowbro-Steelix-Sceptile/Rotom-Mow is already a huge positive in the current meta. I also feel that Exeggutor deserves a place next to the other Dragons currently sitting at B-.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nubeta-613258229

Agreeing on:

A- --> B+

B- --> B+

C --> B-

Possible discussion points?:

C- --> Unranked

C- --> Unranked

C --> Unranked

 

[Metal Sonic]

Strongly agree with meepsvictory's nominations of

Rotom-C to S and

Malamar to B/B+

Having personally used both mons to great effectiveness, I strongly agree with these nominations. Rotom-C's damage output is equal to Sceptile's, therefore just as dangerous; and with Volt Switch and a better defensive typing, functions as a pivoting nuke. Rotom-C trades some Speed in exchange for good bulk, allowing it to take hits better that would ordinarily heavily dent or OHKO Sceptile, such as Ice Shard or Knock Off from Sneasel. Trick can potentially cripple a defensive wall or even halt dangerous setup sweepers (e.g. CM Slowbro/Musharna) reliably, which Sceptile cannot boast.

Malamar may be fairly one-dimensional, but is extremely good at what it does; the speed boost and greater defenses thanks to Happy Hour allow it to become a solid win condition, with Contrary Superpower snowballing it's capabilities every turn. Good prediction can allow it to switch into the current S-rank Meloetta's Psychics and result in disaster for the opponent. Malamar is also surprisingly bulky even before a boost, 86/88/75 defensive stats allow it to survive a single neutral hit most of the time, and proceed to sweep. In practice, Malamar get more opportunities to set up than most might expect on paper. It certainly warrants a rise.

 

[Colonel M]

I think the reason why Probopass shouldn't rise is because the meta didn't change for it to be any better. Its only niche is to trap Steelix and that's basically it. A lot of our top tier threats are able to beat it with Fighting STAB moves or coverage so it's not even a reliable check to special attackers. Super Fang Golbat can beat it 1v1 and another very important thing: some Steelix run Roar which completely nullifies Probos purpose on a team. It's also setup fodder to Pokemon like Virizion, Slowbro and Vivillon. In my opinion Probopass' niche is so small that C- is perfect for it.

I'd like to disagree on this being a reason to keep Probopass in C-.

How I see Probopass is that it has multiple roles that it fills nicely. For starters Probopass is probably one of the best Ice-type resists in the tier. Vanilluxe is forced to Flash Cannon to dent Probopass and Specs Aurorus does not exist. Obviously there are Fire-types such as Emboar and Thick Fat Piloswine is good, but they're usually on the offensive and will almost never run bulk. The only Ice-type it really hates is Brick Break Alolan-Sandslash. It's also a solid check to Scarf Braviary since all it fears is Superpower too. There's also the nice benefit of not being a complete momentum drain since a lot of Ground-types can't touch Probopass if they switch into Magnet Rise and Volt Switch gives some momentum too.

I don't disagree completely that trapping Steelix is not always easy for Probopass, but Probopass has some unique niches that some teams really like and I feel it is downplayed by the post quoted.

Also voicing agreement for a lot of Pokemon like Rotom-C and Vanilluxe to move up.

 

[poh]

How I see Probopass is that it has multiple roles that it fills nicely. For starters Probopass is probably one of the best Ice-type resists in the tier. Vanilluxe is forced to Flash Cannon to dent Probopass and Specs Aurorus does not exist. Obviously there are Fire-types such as Emboar and Thick Fat Piloswine is good, but they're usually on the offensive and will almost never run bulk. The only Ice-type it really hates is Brick Break Alolan-Sandslash. It's also a solid check to Scarf Braviary since all it fears is Superpower too. There's also the nice benefit of not being a complete momentum drain since a lot of Ground-types can't touch Probopass if they switch into Magnet Rise and Volt Switch gives some momentum too.

I'd like to point out a few things. Probopass might be a good Ice-type resists but you're saying yourself that the only threatning Ice-type is Vanilluxe. Most Piloswines tend to run bulk and do a decent job at checking Vanilluxe (and beats Steelix too). Steelix and Rhydon are in my opinion better Scarf Braviary checks due to Superpower doing significantly less damage. Superpower OHKOs Probopass and that's pretty important when you're trying to check something. Beating Ground-types bar Seismitoad is good but if you're going to use Probo it should probably outspeed Piloswine. With that in mind it's unlikely to switch those Ground-types in cause Probo is going to Magnet Rise and the player should know this. I've learned now that Probopass is able to 1v1 most Ground-types which is cool but i still think that the Fighting-weakness is huge considering the meta is filled with Fighting-types.

 

[Metal Sonic]

(De-)Nominating:

Regice C -> Unranked

Manectric C- -> Unranked

Wormadam Trash C- -> Unranked

Swanna C- -> Unranked

I see no reason for any of the above pokemon to be used. I cannot by any stretch of the imagination see them as viable in the current NU metagame. They are either absolutely useless or outclassed fully by a certain Pokemon higher up in the Viability ranking. If these are ranked then these make stuff like Claydol look good lol.

 

[Marrrrrrrrrr]

C- --> Unranked

No. Often times people are blinded by the fact that a Pokemon is bad that they forget what their niche is entirely. This is one of those cases.

Gallade's niche happens to be Swords Dance + Knock Off + Fighting type. Unlike Medicham, Gallade can actually hit dominant Psychic types like Uxie and Meloetta for super effective damage. Not to mention being able to raise its Attack through Swords Dance, which other Fighting types like Emboar, Hitmonlee and Machamp can't do. It's also bulkier on the special side than Medicham.

Gallade also has far too few switch-ins for an unranked Pokemon. Slowbro I guess? Nothing else in S through A dies to one of Gallade's attacks (Meloetta and Uxie can't take a Knock Off, Rotom-Mow and Whimsicott fall to Psychium Z, Sceptile is super frail and can't really take anything well, the rest should be obvious). If anything Gallade should rise to C due to Cofagrigus being gone and Drapion decreasing in viability. It's frail. It's not very fast. It's not in the B ranks for no reason.

Short post but quality over quantity.

 

[quziel]

Taking issue with Wormadam and Gallade being unranked:

Wormadam has a pretty damn good niche in being a rocker that hard checks sceptile, which is huge in the current tier given how dominating scept is, and a protect set cna even scout rotom-cut, which basically simplifies play vs it hugely (90% are scarf or specs). This niche ain't huge, but its large enough to merit ranking imo, as well as the mon being a pretty damn good check to most melo sets with max spdef and bug buzz.

Gallade's access to a stab ZHB lets it run through poison types such as Golbat and Garbodor, and Knock off or Leaf Blade let it break psychic types like Uxie and Slowbro efficiently (leaf blade dodges colbur). Being a fighting type that can effectively bypass these typical checks merits a ranking, however low. Its also pretty annoying to wall, even if it is incredibly easy to revenge, as previously mentioned. Not sure I want a rise, but its definitely worth being ranked.

 

[Disjunction]

Upd8

Rises:
Rotom-Mow A+ --> S
Slowbro A+ --> S
Turtonator B- --> B
Vanilluxe B- --> B+
Exeggutor-Alola C+ --> B-
Malamar C+ --> B
Raticate-Alola C+ --> B
Probopass C- --> C

Drops:
Sigilyph A- --> B+
Slowking A- --> B+
Toxicroak A- --> B+
Eelektross C+ --> C-
Passimian C+ --> C-
Sableye C --> Unranked

Reasoning

Rotom-C is one of the most common and threatening Pokemon in the SM NU metagame currently. With a top-notch STAB combination of Electric and Grass combined with solid offensive stats and a passable movepool, it should not be surprising that Rotom-C can storm through teams. With a Specs set that only has a handful of switch-ins, a Scarf set that is a respectable revenge killer and momentum generator, and various other options such as Z moves, Rotom-C is not only versatile, but consistently seen as one of the most threatening Pokemon to opposing teams and can consistently keep a flow of offensive pressure going for many teams. With all of this taken into consideration, Rotom-C is easily one of the best Pokemon in the tier right now and many teams struggle to defensively check it in as games draw out, leading us to move it up to the S rank among other top-tier threats.

Slowbro's effect on the meta is undenialble with it being a hard counter to the tier's plethora of Fighting-types while also doubling as a really hard to stop wincon. Slowbro in itself has influence on the meta with making Grass-types almost a necessity with how much pressure it applies. Even so, Slowbro still has ways around Grass-types such as crippling them with status or luring them with Fire Blast.

Turtonator is a very good Shell Smash sweeper, having good typing offensively and defensively that lets it sweep through teams with ease. Its typing is also good defensively in a metagame where there's many viable Grass-types and are all extremely common. Turtonator finds itself plenty of opportunities to set up and sweep making its raise in the rankings justified.

Vanilluxe rose due to the tier's lack of good Ice-type resists, making its Blizzards very deadly, especially when complemented by Freeze-Dry which makes it very difficult to wall outside Piloswine or Cryogonal.

Raticate-Alola can function both as a dangerous wallbreaker and sweeper, despite having an accuracy drawback from Hustle. With a threatening Attack stat from Hustle's boost and access to Swords Dance and Sucker Punch, Raticate-Alola becomes difficult to effectively revenge kill late game. Raticate-Alola can also utilize Z-moves to blow past walls, even without a Swords Dance boost.

Exeggutor-Alola has a good matchup against a lot of offensive teams nowadays because of its powerful coverage and STAB moves coupled with its nice natural bulk that allows it to set up Trick Room for itself. Its typing is useful for a lot of teams looking for a decent check to Rotom-Mow.

Malamar's ability to utilize Z-Happy Hour, giving it a +1 stat boost in all standard categories makes it stronger and more difficult to revenge kill, along with Contrary which allows it to consistently boost Attack and Defense with Superpower allows Malamar to function as a potent sweeper which can be difficult to effectively revenge kill. Despite not resisting anything defensively and having one immunity to Psychic, Malamar has suitable bulk which gives it some opportunities to successfully set up with Z-Happy Hour.

Probopass rose because of its decent defensive utility, but mostly because of its ability to exploit Steelix, the most commonly used Pokemon in the tier.

Sigilyph was dropped due to the amount of Pursuit trappers present in the current meta and generally being hard to justify over the likes of Meloetta or Delphox outside of being immune to residual damage.

Slowking is overshadowed by the effect Slowbro has on the metagame and is harder to justify using as a result. Slowking's superior Special bulk means less in a metagame where most Fire- and Water-type Pokemon can power their way through it.

Toxicroak faces stiff competition from other Fighting-types such as Virizion, and offers little over them other than Dry Skin. It also suffers from below average bulk and Speed for a sweeper, forcing it to rely on a non-STAB Sucker Punch.

Eelektross has decent coverage and good natural bulk, but it finds itself in a position where it lacks a solid defensive niche and being too weak offensively to justify on most teams.

Passimian struggles to outdo other Fighting-types in the tier because of its lack of assets. It has a strong Fighting-type STAB that goes along well with U-turn, but you will usually find yourself wanting a more diverse Fighting-type to fill the role Passimian can fill.

Sableye provides almost nothing of value to a team that other options don't already cover. The two most dominant Fighting-types in the tier, Machamp and Emboar, already exploit its ability to use priority Will-O-Wisp and negate its only useful purpose as a decent Fighting-type check.

Thanks to meeps, hootie, blast, and finch for the help on writing out the reasonings. Hope they help you guys understand the meta a bit more each shift!

 

[Punchshroom]

B to C+ / C

The advent of Raticate-Alola as a respectable threat made me realize that Absol might end up being overshadowed by the rat after all, warranting a switch in ranks; personally I don't consider Absol to even be more effective than most of the B- Rank mons. Raticate-Alola already has a good résumé by actually having comparable / superior stats with Absol, boasting very similar levels of power and Speed while having a bit more meat on its bones to make setup just a tad easier. Absol's remaining advantages over AlolaRat are its wide arsenal of attacks, having stronger Dark STAB, and its accuracy remaining intact. However, AlolaRat's access to Normal STAB not only alleviates any need for superficial coverage moves, but also gives it an attacking option that is significantly stronger than Absol's Knock Off. Double-Edge's power even lends itself well into Z-Moves, which happen to (temporarily) circumvent AlolaRat's accuracy issues by guaranteeing the powerful nuke.

Even putting its competition against AlolaRat aside, Absol still has some fundamental flaws. Not only does it have a super rough time setting up, but it's rarely more rewarding than other potential Swords Dance Dark-types in the tier, such as Drapion, Shiftry, or even Icium Z Sneasel, primarily due to the fact that Absol lacks an additional STAB, meaning it needs more coverage to backup its main STAB, which is a problem when it only has room for one; even its coverage moves come with significant drawbacks, with Iron Tail being even less accurate than AlolaRat's Hustle moves, and Superpower's stat drops conflict with its hard-earned Swords Dance. The other Swords Dance Dark-types on the other hand can get by with just one coverage move or even just their dual STABs alone. Absol is just not particularly impressive for an offensive Dark-type in NU; it even lost its title of 'strongest Sucker Punch in NU' to AlolaRat, and its 'consistent accuracy' is not enough of an advantage to let it keep its relatively high rank.

 

[Yasuo]

I don't agree with Absol faliing one complete rank or 2 subranks. Absol has got so much more coverage which Raticate could never dream off getting in one of his sets: Play Rough, Iron Tail, Ice Beam, Fire Blast.
Absol can use Knock Off while Raticate has to rely on Sucker Punch or Crunch while Absol can do more damage with Knock Off, letting it remove items from your opponent which is one thing Raticate can't. While Raticate is stronger, it is much more risky to play than Absol. I am a Durant user and I know how annoying and hindering Hustle can be if it misses and Raticate can't use Hone Claws to get out of this situation, so you can only hope that it won't miss.

Absol can utilize Knock Off as a stronger stab attack
Absol can use Iron Tail, Fire Blast, Play Rough, Rockslide, Megahorn, Superpower or Ice Beam to hit specific targets.
Absol is the more reliable mon, while the offensive stats of both mons are comparable, Absol users doesn't have to rely on Hustle, making it the save version to use.
Absol can run AoA sets and SD sets, maybe mixed too

Double-Edge either takes up your Z-Move slot which you might not want to use on a B-rank mon or it just kills yourself by the recoil

PS: Complaining the about coverage is bad imo, why would you ever complain about having coverage? You sure can nitpick about coverage and say, this coverage has bad acc and this coverage drops your stats, but Absol has the coverage and it is good to have coverage, even with the drawbacks of some of them. If you don't like the coverage, use a different one. No need to say the coverage has so many flaws and isn't helpful.

What I'm trying to say: While Raticate-A is the stronger mon, Absol brings more coverage, versatility with multiple sets (AoA, SD, maybe mixed) , a better Dark Type coverage and reliability to the table, making it a good alternative to Raticate

I don't think that Double-Edge and Z-Double-Edge as strong nukes and a little bit more bulk justify it that Absol is so much lower than the rat,

Keep Absol in B or only drop it to B- at most, no need to drop it that much

 

[Punchshroom]

I don't agree with Absol faliing one complete rank or 2 subranks. Absol has got so much more coverage which Raticate could never dream off getting in one of his sets: Play Rough, Iron Tail, Ice Beam, Fire Blast.
Absol can use Knock Off while Raticate has to rely on Sucker Punch or Crunch while Absol can do more damage with Knock Off, letting it remove items from your opponent which is one thing Raticate can't. While Raticate is stronger, it is much more risky to play than Absol. I am a Durant user and I know how annoying and hindering Hustle can be if it misses and Raticate can't use Hone Claws to get out of this situation, so you can only hope that it won't miss.

Absol can utilize Knock Off as a stronger stab attack
Absol can use Iron Tail, Fire Blast, Play Rough, Rockslide, Megahorn, Superpower or Ice Beam to hit specific targets.
Absol is the more reliable mon, while the offensive stats of both mons are comparable, Absol users doesn't have to rely on Hustle, making it the save version to use.
Absol can run AoA sets and SD sets, maybe mixed too

Double-Edge either takes up your Z-Move slot which you might not want to use on a B-rank mon or it just kills yourself by the recoil

PS: Complaining the about coverage is bad imo, why would you ever complain about having coverage? You sure can nitpick about coverage and say, this coverage has bad acc and this coverage drops your stats, but Absol has the coverage and it is good to have coverage, even with the drawbacks of some of them. If you don't like the coverage, use a different one. No need to say the coverage has so many flaws and isn't helpful.

Yasuo I never implied that having coverage is a bad thing; I implied that Absol needs more coverage than most other offensive Dark-types in the tier to get by. Not to mention that most of the coverage moves you brought up, such as Rock Slide, Ice Beam, Megahorn, and Fire Blast, barely hit anything Absol wants to so those moves are largely superficial on Absol and are indeed not helpful. Meanwhile STAB Double-Edge is a huge asset for AlolaRat nails nearly all of the tier's bulkier Dark resists for significant damage and KOing the majority after +2, something Absol cannot do with just one coverage slot.

AoA Absol is ok and is honestly one of the main reasons I'm even keeping this ranked, but is still held back by flaws such as significantly reduced OHKO or even sometimes 2HKO potential (2 consecutive Knock Offs do less than a +2 Knock Off), which can pose problems for such a frail mon as Absol. Mixed Absol doesn't really hit anything that physical Absol doesn't and is arguably outdone by something like mixed Shiftry, so it's not much of a factor. With that said, even AlolanRat has the potential for an AoA set, utilizing Pursuit and Sucker Punch much like Skuntank, Spiritomb, and even Absol itself can, but AlolaRat also has U-turn as an additional way to gain momentum and has the nice perk of having Hustle Pursuit not miss against a fleeing target.

Absol may have the stronger main Dark-type STAB, but AlolaRat can still get by with Crunch. AlolaRat on the other hand has Double-Edge which more than easily closes the gap, being both an even stronger nuke and a catch-all against all the Dark-resists, something Absol wishes it had. +2 Breakneck Blitz OHKOes right through Colbur Berry Slowbro and even Intimidate Granbull for starters, so having access to this kind of raw power means that I doubt AlolaRat is going to miss not having Knock Off that much.

Finally, you say Absol is a 'safer' alternative to AlolaRat, but Absol itself is still a very volatile Pokemon, risking death against Sucker Punch mindgames or even while setting up; you could say that Absol only offers slightly lesser risk but forgoes AlolaRat's substantially higher rewards.

What I'm trying to say: While Raticate-A is the stronger mon, Absol brings more coverage, versatility with multiple sets (AoA, SD, maybe mixed) , a better Dark Type coverage and reliability to the table, making it a good alternative to Raticate

I don't think that Double-Edge and Z-Double-Edge as strong nukes and a little bit more bulk justify it that Absol is so much lower than the rat,
Keep Absol in B or only drop it to B- at most, no need to drop it that much

My summarized thoughts:
a) Absol has a colorful offensive movepool but AlolaRat's STAB Double-Edge outperforms all of those options in one fell swoop, with perhaps the exception of Superpower which hammers bulky Normal resists
b) Absol's 'versatility' is really not much to write home about, especially compared to the versatility of other Dark-types in the tier
c) I'd say having a weaker main Dark-type STAB is worth being able to hit the entire tier for neutral coverage with just your STABs while hitting damage levels that Absol can't reach
d) you claim Absol is a 'safer' alternative but ends up still being high risk, so might as well just go awol with AlolaRat and reap the greater rewards

 

[Hootie]

Some previous noms were missed, so here's a small update.

C+ ---> B-

UR ---> C

UR ---> C-

UR ---> C-

As for reasoning on these, Regirock is rather underrated in the current metagame, with its mono Rock typing providing some advantages over Rhydon such as the lack of an Ice weakness which lets it check Sneasel effectively as well as having various support options such as Thunder Wave. Mudsdale was ranked for its ability to 2HKO a large majority of the meta with Choice Band, having Heavy Slam and Close Combat also lets it deal massive damage to most Pokemon that are resistant/immune to Ground. While it can be tough to support Articuno, it can be an effective Agility cleaner with Z-Hurricane under the right circumstances and its typing does grant it some setup opportunities. Togedemaru while niche, its typing can be a blessing to teams, being able to check the likes of Rotom-C, Whimsicott, Rotom, Vanilluxe, Vikavolt, and many more in one slot. It still has a slight case of 4MSS and is complete fodder for Ground-types.

 

[Bouff]

i dont agree with the notion of unranking regice. its pretty unexplored atm and it has some qualities that make it at least being worth even if its by no means a stellar pokemon.

to go into specifics here's the set ive been using

Regice @ Electrium Z / Fightinium Z
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Rock Polish
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast

honestly i kinda forgot what the evs do exactly, but theyre enough to outrun sceptile and scarf emboar which is good enough for regice anyway. while it doesnt come close to the raw power that vanilluxe brings to the table, boltbeam coverage in conjunction with focus blast makes it an efficient cleaner given the right support. despite having rocks weakness it has some decent defensive utility with its ice resistance and stupidly high special bulk. electrium is used to blow through things like fat waters and kos emboar if it switches in on an ib. fight z can be used as well though if youre really afraid of steelix. i dont think regice is by any means great but after using it in my suspect test run it definitely holds a niche that makes it a nice fit for c rank.