New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

[Colonel Darren]

if i'm carrying Shadow SNeak, CC Koes after one SD, if im Carryng Earthquake, Night Slash KOes.

That's only if Metagross chooses to set up rocks first. It could just Meteor Mash/Earthquake and then Bullet Punch you. I severely doubt a +2 Shadow Sneak is going to stop it. Gallade wins against Metagross only if it chooses to set up rocks, and by that time, it's accomplished it's job.

Interesting concept, but as stated before, moveslot syndrome significantly reduces your ability to counter most leads.

Also, Shadow Sneak doesn't save you from Smeargle.

 

[blasphemy1]

The standard Choice Scarf Gallade is probably your best bet as a lead. I've tested a set of Close Combat / Night Slash / Ice Punch / Trick with an EV spread of 132 HP / 142 Atk / 236 Spe. The HP allows it to survive Lead Metagross Meteor Mash 100% of the time (you'll want to Trick it your Scarf, then send in Magnezone), while outspeeding Choice Scarf Heatran and base 130s with a speed boosting nature. I could have maxed speed, but the extra attack/bulk helps a lot. It reaches 280 speed without a Choice Scarf, allowing it to outspeed Adamant Lucario (though be warned a +2 Extremespeeed will always OHKO). Trick just allows you to cover a lot of different threats without the necessary coverage moves, such as Machamp, Metagross, and Swampert.

 

[muffinhead]

bleh, got over looked D:

Mixed Dragonite is a force, but this set has the potential to be even scarier.

Fearless Dragonite
Item: White Herb
Nature: Rash
Ability: Inner Focus
Draco Meteor
Superpower
Flamethrower
Thunderbolt/ Earthquake
EVs: 58 Attack/ 252 Special Attack/ 200 Speed

Strategy: This particular set focuses on the use of Draco Meteor or Superpower with White Herb. Dragonite forces switches like no other pokemon, so the idea is to use Draco Meteor on the switch (Superpower if you know the opponent has a steel that they will switch in). Stab Draco Meteor hits everything extremely hard, but this set goes for a two turn attack. Whereas a normal Dragonite would use Draco Meteor and gain the power of Life Orb, if a steel switched in on it, the Dragonite is setup fodder due to the 2 stage drop in Special Attack. White Herb helps out by losing the Life Orb boost, but in return, needing almost no prediction and no stat drop or recoil. The EVs outspeed Crocune, defensive Zapdos, and bulky Gyarados.

Enough talk, here are the calculations against some common defensive counters:

Draco Meteor v. Skarmory (Spiker): 41.9% - 49.4%
Draco Meteor v. Suicune (Crocune): 46% - 54.2%
Draco Meteor v. Zapdos (Physically Defensive): 59.8% - 70.5%
Draco Meteor v. Swampert (MixPert Lead): 56.7% - 66.8%
Draco Meteor v. Gyarados (Bulky Dragon Dance): 56.8% - 66.8%

These calculations do not look like much, I know. But when you factor in that Dragonite outspeeds all of these threats and can guarantee the 2HKO with either Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, or a second Draco Meteor with no recoil from Life Orb and no stat drop, this Dragonite hits harder and survives longer than the standard MixNite. In Suicune's case, Thunderbolt does not quite 2HKO, but Surf does negligible damage.

Damage Calculations against common offensive threats switching in:

Draco Meteor v. Scizor (Choice Band): 36.7% - 43.1%
Draco Meteor v. Starmie (Life Orb): 91.2% - 108% (OHKO with Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor v. Flygon (Choice Scarf): 100%

Scizor is the only thing that will put a dent in this Dragonite, as Bullet Punch does 52.3% - 61.6%. Keep in mind that while you can stay in to kill Scizor with Flamethrower, if Stealth Rock is on your side of the field then you will be at less than a quarter of your health.

Team Options: Stealth Rock is very important, as it allows you to finish off Zapdos without using Draco Meteor again and nets the KO on incoming Starmie. A Rapid Spinner is always useful when evey time Dragonite switches in, he loses 25% of his total health. If you do not want to weaken Dragonite in the fight against Scizor, you could use a trapper such as Magnezone. Magnezone can also help out against particularly bulky Bronzong.

Please keep in mind that this Dragonite is not merely for a one-time use, even without Life Orb he hits quite hard. Changes are welcome :D

 

[Delko]

Gallade

Item: Life Orb
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 96 HP/252 Atk/164 Spd
Adamant nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake / Leaf Blade
- Ice Punch / Leaf Blade

This set is actually very effective. You cannot beat beat Metagross though as he can always survive CC or EQ and after recoil damage from Life Orb Meteor Mash will do a minimum of 96%. So you'd better switch against them. Anyway, I do like the idea. ^^

 

[Coldcut]

@muffinhead: What are some Superpower calcs? Could you get away with going purely special with Modest and some more speed and/or HP?

@Maketsu: You would need to have several Stockpiles up before you could take a powerful fighting attack, and the fact that the team "options" are not really optional make this set gimmicky at best.

 

[muffinhead]

@muffinhead: What are some Superpower calcs? Could you get away with going purely special with Modest and some more speed and/or HP?

Well the thing is, if Blissey switches in on Draco Meteor then Superpower, Blissey will have a maximum of 18.25% remaining (with Stealth Rock and two turns of Leftovers). Dragonite also has a chance to kill Blissey with Draco Meteor then Superpower, and taking away the Attack EVs or changing the nature will take that away. Then again, how many Blisseys would switch in to a Dragonite without knowing its moveset?

Draco Meteor v. Tyranitar does 40.6% - 48.2% with my set. Superpower even when Modest still OHKOs Tyranitar with no attack EVs, but there is no point because Choice Scarf Tyranitar will OHKO with Stone Edge.

So you could maybe get away with Modest and 58 EVs in another spot to kit stuff harder, but you will most likely lose to Tyranitar and Blissey this way.

 

[ab15]

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Whirlwind
- Curse
- Rest
- Ice Punch/ crunch/ reaturn/ any move you want snorlax has alot to choose from

This snorlax is not only is a great special wall but also hazes, and a great sweeper against team with out roar, or simply ko the roaring pokemon. Because of its good special defence and hp once he is 6 cursed only crits and a lucky focus blast from gengar can ko this pokemon so be awear. BUT the greatest thing about this set is its easy way to set up. if you see a sucine (bar whirldwind) simply curse 2x or more and roar out after surfe or another calm mind, this works on any pokemon in a sub, any powering up move, and because of rest you want the oposing pokemon to inflict a stats condiction on you.
his last move is up to the player, if he dosnt like not missing gost pokemon then reaturn is the best option killing most pokemon wiyh out a problem after full set up with 3 or less attacks, taking little damedge in the process.
To hit harder you could give him a adament nature but he will take special beatings then. and some ev's could be used in defence to survive close combat better after 3 curses. BUT to note, after 6 curses snorlax will take any ph attack better than spa so close combat isnt such a problem after.

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Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 180 HP/180 Def/36 Spd/110 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Heal Bell
- Roost
---
easly sent out at juachi( cant be flinched) or rotom ( no trick) and fully set up and sweep after heal bell, dragon claw can be exchanged for any move, i just think it works. but this set does work.

 

[muffinhead]

a lot of posts have a boosting snorlax with rest, the thing is that skarm can phaze you easily, crocune sets up on ice punch, any steel has fun with crunch, and using rest without chesto berry is not a a good idea. sorry D:

 

[ab15]

any steel with out roar he will ko after full set up. And always wins skarmory when the last two left (or with out roar). You whirlwind crocune so he cant set up. But the thing is that after phazers are gone and he has a opening, its almost impossible to ko or stall him. But like i said its so hard to 3hko him when fully powerd so he can take the abuse of almost anything while asleep.

 

[min min]

Bleh, repost.

PassItOn Cressy

@Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs:252Hp/252Def/4Spd
Bold
~Trick
~Psycho Shift
~Thunder Wave
~Reflect/Ice Beam

This set trades recovery (which Cresselia doesn't do well with anyways) for general gimmicky messing with. Switch this into something that doesn't kill it, which is plenty, and proceed to trick a boosting sweeper hoping for a free set-up*. If you have another way to deal with Nite or Flygon, use Reflect as it gives stuff like Rotom insurance against Tyrannitar and you don't take massive damage from Pursuit. Otherwise use Ice Beam to avoid being Taunt bait. When necessary, Thunder Wave anything in sight.
The real fun is when Blissey/Vaporeon comes to get a free Wish in. If possible, Trick it on the switch, as is often my case, then pass on the Toxic to the Wish receiver or Vaporeon. It makes a good burn absorber too, nailing stuff like Scizor and Tyrannitar on the switch.

*Either that or get a totally non-threatening Scarf Scizor or weather a Tyrannitar Pursuit.

 

[HolyChipmunk]

u b trollin

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Whirlwind
- Curse
- Rest
- Ice Punch/ crunch/ return/ any move you want snorlax has alot to choose from

This snorlax is not only is a great special wall but also hazes, and a great sweeper against team without roar, or simply ko the roaring pokemon. Because of its good special defense and hp once he is 6 cursed only crits and a lucky focus blast from gengar can ko this pokemon so be aware. BUT the greatest thing about this set is its easy way to set up. if you see a suicine (bar whirlwind) simply curse 2x or more and roar out after surf or another calm mind, this works on any pokemon in a sub, any powering up move, and because of rest you want the opposing pokemon to inflict a stats condiction on you.
his last move is up to the player, if he dosnt like not missing ghost pokemon then return is the best option killing most pokemon without a problem after full set up with 3 or less attacks, taking little damage in the process.
To hit harder you could give him an adament nature but he will take special beatings then. and some ev's could be used in defense to survive close combat better after 3 curses. BUT to note, after 6 curses snorlax will take any ph attack better than spa so close combat isnt such a problem after.

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Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 180 HP/180 Def/36 Spd/110 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Heal Bell
- Roost
---
easily sent out at jirachi (can't be flinched) or rotom (no trick) and fully set up and sweep after heal bell, dragon claw can be exchanged for any move, i just think it works. but this set does work.

I felt the need to correct all your spelling errors. At least put SOME effort into these. Also, that Snorlax is easily killed. It is NOT easy to set up 6 curses.

 

[min min]

And please put some thought into the attacking move that he has, he will be completely shut down by just one pokemon if you don't. And yes, 6 Curses are impossible to set up without attracting Close Combats and DynamicPunches.

Whirlwind is useless once you get some Curses up as you will be primarily sweeping, not out-phazing.

If you like Whirlwind that much, I suggest you use a more support oriented set with Rest, Sleep Talk, Whirwind and Return/Crunch. Don't expect much from it, though.

 

[Delko]

Actually if you want to use Whirlwind you should go Stockpile since that will raise defensive stats, and you aren't using Snorlax to actually sweep, the attack boost is redundant.

 

[Azlanslayer]

This set is actually very effective. You cannot beat beat Metagross though as he can always survive CC or EQ and after recoil damage from Life Orb Meteor Mash will do a minimum of 96%. So you'd better switch against them. Anyway, I do like the idea. ^^

Thanks Man For Liking It.Actually,I Have Faced Many Metagross Leads But They Always ALWAYS Stealth Rock First..Then Bullet Punch As They Know I'm Faster,Zen Headbutt Fails To 2hko Swampert,So I Usually Switch To Gyarados To Set-Up :).Also,I'm Not Sure About The Ev's.You May Want To Edit It Though

 

[Accipender]

A lot of leads Taunt first, rendering Swords Dance useless. That gives it plenty of counters.

Here you have what is called the 4-Move syndrome. You can't run all of CC/EQ/ShadowSneak/SD/PsychoCut/IcePunch/NightSlash, only 4 of those moves. This inevitably leads to you being defeated by whatever you didn't choose to specifically counter.

False. I used to run a bulkier version of this with SD/CC/SS/Ice Punch and I could reliably beat every lead. Most leads will allow you a SD, and those that commonly taunt are 2HKOd. The problem is that it can't stop rocks from being put down.

 

[ab15]

And please put some thought into the attacking move that he has, he will be completely shut down by just one pokemon if you don't. And yes, 6 Curses are impossible to set up without attracting Close Combats and DynamicPunches.

Whirlwind is useless once you get some Curses up as you will be primarily sweeping, not out-phazing.

If you like Whirlwind that much, I suggest you use a more support oriented set with Rest, Sleep Talk, Whirlwind and Return/Crunch. Don't expect much from it, though.

Thank you for the spelling. 1) once snorlax is set up it doesn't matter if his attack isn't very effective because it does so much anyway ex: fully boosted crunch will do 34-40% and can easily take care of skarmory.
2) true that it looks a little hard to set up 6 curses but take in mind after 3 or 4 he will easily take hits while continuing to curse, then sleep after full or when needed, the point to take in mind is besides for close combat, he cant be ko'ed while powering up.
3) the point for whirlwind isn't only for simply hazing, i cant tell e you how many times i sucine is sent out by snorlax and while my opponent calm minds i curse THEN whirlwinds, it really does work (it works with almost any powering move nd some times the trainer gets greedy and swords dances 3x)
4) the final move slot is depending on the trainer, crunch takes away ghost pokemon that might trick (although unless boosted enough you might want to switch. Ice punch is great on gliscor, and return the strongest move he has.

 

[muffinhead]

You don't understand, skarmory will never let you get to +6. Even if it did, it can roost off the damage. Anything with taunt will beat this set, anything with a fighting move will beat this set, anything with roar/ ww will beat this set.

 

[ab15]

ok, but taunt, whirldwind/roar will beat any curse/ calm mind set, that dosn't make it terrible, you just have to clear it out

 

[Accipender]

Thank you for the spelling. 1) once snorlax is set up it doesn't matter if his attack isn't very effective because it does so much anyway ex: fully boosted crunch will do 34-40% and can easily take care of skarmory.
2) true that it looks a little hard to set up 6 curses but take in mind after 3 or 4 he will easily take hits while continuing to curse, then sleep after full or when needed, the point to take in mind is besides for close combat, he cant be ko'ed while powering up.
3) the point for whirlwind isn't only for simply hazing, i cant tell e you how many times i sucine is sent out by snorlax and while my opponent calm minds i curse THEN whirlwinds, it really does work (it works with almost any powering move nd some times the trainer gets greedy and swords dances 3x)
4) the final move slot is depending on the trainer, crunch takes away ghost pokemon that might trick (although unless boosted enough you might want to switch. Ice punch is great on gliscor, and return the strongest move he has.

1.) Skarm has access to Whirlwind, so can pHaze Lax. Additionally, he can roost stall if it does >50%.
2.) IIRC Critical hits disregard any stat boosts. So even with +6 def, a crit CC is going to OHKO
3.) If you have -6 speed, any pHazer is going to outspeed you.
4.) That's part of the problem; even if you get to choose what can beat the set, something can still beat the set.

 

[ab15]

[QUOTE 1.) Skarm has access to Whirlwind, so can pHaze Lax. Additionally, he can roost stall if it does >50%.
2.) IIRC Critical hits disregard any stat boosts. So even with +6 def, a crit CC is going to OHKO
3.) If you have -6 speed, any pHazer is going to outspeed you.
4.) That's part of the problem; even if you get to choose what can beat the set, something can still beat the set.[/QUOTE]

I really dont want to seem like i'm pushing this and sorry but:
1) I said skarm with out whirlwind, but he cant really roost stall because there is more ice punches then roost, the defence loss with crunch (or even a crit although not to rely on it). Skarmory will also always loose when the too are left alone (with the help of rest).
2) critical hits can ko any pokemon and could put to stop a fully boosted baton passed pokemon so i dont see it as such a big deal. And he will survive almost all crit hits unless from a close combat of a f-balst with some dammedge already on him.
3)-6 speed goes to any cursing pokemon like swampert and hipodon. gyradose also can be whirwinded even after 3 DD's, so the problem goes to any sweeper.
4) every set is beatable, some more then others, other wise its broken. I'm saying i think this is a ligitament set that comes with its own drawbacks.

 

[Colonel Darren]

I really dont want to seem like i'm pushing this and sorry but:
1) I said skarm with out whirlwind, but he cant really roost stall because there is more ice punches then roost, the defence loss with crunch (or even a crit although not to rely on it). Skarmory will also always loose when the too are left alone (with the help of rest).
2) critical hits can ko any pokemon and could put to stop a fully boosted baton passed pokemon so i dont see it as such a big deal. And he will survive almost all crit hits unless from a close combat of a f-balst with some dammedge already on him.
3)-6 speed goes to any cursing pokemon like swampert and hipodon. gyradose also can be whirwinded even after 3 DD's, so the problem goes to any sweeper.
4) every set is beatable, some more then others, other wise its broken. I'm saying i think this is a ligitament set that comes with its own drawbacks.

You are pushing it.

1. No matter what you pick, unless it's Fire Punch or an Ice Punch freeze, you won't beat Skarmory even if you had 6 Curses. One on one, last Poke standing, perhaps, but I doubt you would ever come down to that. Also, nearly all Skarmory will be running Whirlwind and Roost.
2. Close Combat from anything with decent Attack will 1-2HKO Snorlax with 1-2 Curses under it's belt. No team that has an Infernape or Machamp will hesitate to abuse their Fighting STAB and lay waste to Snorlax.
3. A Bulky Gyrados would simply taunt you early on and set up. If you have only one Curse or so and are packing something like Fire Punch/Earthquake/Return or something, it will beat you. Also, if you Curse at all, Swampert can Roar you out faster.
4. If by legit, you mean easily set up on when resting and scared off by nearly any Fighting Type, then yes. You need to realize the set is flawed massively by allowing too many Poke to easily walk all over it. I have seen Whirlwind Snorlax work before, but a Cursing one will not cut it.

 

[NjSoccer]

I'm very new at creating movesets, but here is my attempt at creating:

Anti-Lead Metagross

Nature: Naive
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 120 AtK / 252 SpA / 8 Speed / 130 HP
~ Zen Headbutt
~ Grass Knot
~ Hidden Power Ground/Ice
~ Bullet Punch

Strategy:
Like all other anti-lead pokemon, this Metagross will target most/all of the most commonly used leads out there in today's Metagame. I do also like this Metagross because it plays an important role against other battlers. For example, they start out with a swampert, i start out with my metagross. They will think i'm just going with the standard Stealth Rocks & explosion / some physical attack; though this is really an all out sweeper.
The EV's in Attack and Special attack are there to 1KO / 2KO certain pokemon and leads. For attack, the EVs were placed there for machamp and aerodactyl, while for special attack, i needed as much power for grass knot and hidden power as possible. The EV's in Speed is to guarantee to outspeed any other base 70's with + speed nature, and the rest of the EV's fall in the HP to have some bulk to Metagross.

Lead Matchups:

- Grass Knot will do 99% - 116.8%, almost a certain OHKO.

- Grass Knot will do 76.2% - 90%, a 2KO.

- I would outspeed and Zen Headbutt would do 101.3% - 119.7%, OHKO.

- While he SR's, Zen Headbutt goes 144% - 170%; if he is sashed, i BP to 2KO.

- Similar to Infernape, though sleep powder will sleep me (though a roserade cannot exactly do much to any metagross)

- Grass Knot will do 38.4% - 45.4%, enough to brake the sash, while he SR's. He will think that is my best move against him, so he will try to EQ, while Bullet Punch goes 76.2% - 90.1% for the 2KO.

- HP Ground is a 2KO.

- See Heatran above.

- Only lead that really stumps me, though Zen Headbutt does 36.6% - 43.2% while they set up Rocks and such.

- HP Ice is a OHKO, or Zen HeadButt does 45.2% - 53.4% for a possible 2KO if lucky.

As you can see, HP ice only really helps with gliscor, and the occasional dragonite.



Thoughts? Much criticism is needed, due to not really knowing where to put EVs after i figured out what i needed for attack and special attack...

 

[Colonel Darren]

I'm very new at creating movesets, but here is my attempt at creating:

Anti-Lead Metagross
Nature: Naive
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 120 AtK / 252 SpA / 8 Speed / 130 HP
~ Zen Headbutt
~ Grass Knot
~ Hidden Power Ground/Ice
~ Bullet Punch

Seems solid. You might have a bit of trouble against other Metagross though, as I'm sure they would either get up rocks or immediately put the hurt on you with Earthquake. You might want to have an answer if it comes up as a mirror match. Infernape could also be ballsy and just go straight for the Fire Blast on the off-chance it thinks you are not Occa, and if they guessed right, you lost a lead and it can still put up rocks/keep it's sash.

That, and you did say you had problems with Azelf. I'd make sure you can have something on your team that can take that down as well as a Gliscor counter. Dragonite I don't see often, but you clearly lose to it without HP Ice, and perhaps even with Ice if it gets a good enough hit on you.

I rather like the set, and approve of it.

 

[Azlanslayer]

False. I used to run a bulkier version of this with SD/CC/SS/Ice Punch and I could reliably beat every lead. Most leads will allow you a SD, and those that commonly taunt are 2HKOd. The problem is that it can't stop rocks from being put down.

First,Its Lame.Azelf Leads Will Beat You.Metagross Will Beat You.Heatran Leads Will Beat You.They Will SR While You SD And Go BOOOOOOOOOOOOM.Useless SD.Its Better Not To Set-Up SD Has It Doesnt Fit To Be In The Lead Position.Plus,Skarm And Pert Can Phaze You

 

[Ericcc]

I'm very new at creating movesets, but here is my attempt at creating:

Anti-Lead Metagross

Nature: Naive
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 120 AtK / 252 SpA / 8 Speed / 130 HP
~ Zen Headbutt
~ Grass Knot
~ Hidden Power Ground/Ice
~ Bullet Punch

Strategy:
Like all other anti-lead pokemon, this Metagross will target most/all of the most commonly used leads out there in today's Metagame. I do also like this Metagross because it plays an important role against other battlers. For example, they start out with a swampert, i start out with my metagross. They will think i'm just going with the standard Stealth Rocks & explosion / some physical attack; though this is really an all out sweeper.
The EV's in Attack and Special attack are there to 1KO / 2KO certain pokemon and leads. For attack, the EVs were placed there for machamp and aerodactyl, while for special attack, i needed as much power for grass knot and hidden power as possible. The EV's in Speed is to guarantee to outspeed any other base 70's with + speed nature, and the rest of the EV's fall in the HP to have some bulk to Metagross.



As you can see, HP ice only really helps with gliscor, and the occasional dragonite.



Thoughts? Much criticism is needed, due to not really knowing where to put EVs after i figured out what i needed for attack and special attack...

Heatran is always going to win in my opinion.
A pretty solid lead except for the fact that it will always lose to Heatran, or possibly Infernape if they decide to FB the first turn (As the other guy already mentioned) in which case you've just lost a Pokemon and the opponent can still set up rocks [and keeps their sash] (Ape's case).
Also, if Zen Headbutt misses, you're pretty much screwed lol,