New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

[Ankoku]

I don't see how anything that isn't Poison would "not mind" a Black Sludge. On the first Trick, it's lost 1/8 of its life, and if it chooses to Stealth Rock, it's already down to 75% life. Even if it comes in later on revenge (if it switched in, two/three turns of Black Sludge life loss combined with soaking an attack will likely put it in KO range anyway), its attacking moves involve Iron Head and U-turn anyway, which means you can even safely switch Tentacruel right back in if you fear the second Trick.

Even so, this doesn't solve the problem of Tentacruel not truly OHKOing the #1 lead in usage, Azelf.

 

[Canada]

if tenta gets KOd for whatever reason i am then caught in a sacrifice position where i have to pick a pokemon on my team that "wouldn't mind" black sludge. this is a difference of opinion, but i'd really rather have the always reliable leftovers. but the topic is moot because leftovers really isn't the ideal item for this kind of lead anyway.

EDIT: and not many leads can OHKO azelf and still serve some purpose other than that so i'm not going to get my panties in a twist over it because if it doesn't carry psychic, the best it can do it explode which isn't really the worst case scenario because any azelf would have done that anyway. and most azelf don't carry psychic because machamp is the only common lead it has any use against and even that is tailored to survive that attack and KO

 

[Chou Toshio]

Yeah Earthworm has a similar Heatran, but if I remember correctly it had Protect over another move (I think over Stealth Rock because that's the most logical).

Yes Forretress looses to the leads you listed but thats why Gyarados and Heatran make good teammates for him as they cover those leads.

Also Fire Blast Azelf.

 

[ForTheSwarm]

I've tried this out a few times and it seemed to work OK.

SpecsIce

@Choice Specs
Ability: Clear Body
252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD or Def
Modest nature

-Focus Blast
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Fire (ivs are 31 hp/26 atk/31 def/30 spa/31 spd/30 spe)

Options:
You can give it 48 Spe evs so that it can outspeed Blissey (including the speed drop from HP Fire).

Regice is incredibly bulky on the special side, while maintaining respectable defenses on the physical as well. Defensively, it acts as a mini-blissey with more defenses on both sides but less HP.

It is not OHKOed by Offensive Gyarados' Stone Edge, Scarftran's Fire Blast, or even CBzor's Bullet Punch* unless SR is on the field.
*(87.9%-104.4%)
ScarfTar's Stone Edge only has a 50% chance to OHKO SpecsIce (92.3% - 108.8%).

Offensively, it packs a large punch, assuming you predict right.

SpecsIce OHKOs Tyranitar (in Sandstorm) with Focus Blast (although you have to hit it on the switch to avoid getting OHKOed yourself). It also 2HKOs Crocune with Thunderbolt (one hit at +0, and another at +1).
Enemies such as Scizor, Flygon, Gliscor, Gyarados, Starmie, etc. are OHKOed by the respective super effective move.

Stealth Rock and Infernape give this set problems, for obvious reasons. Tentacruel can Rapid Spin and stop Infernape at the same time, making it a good partner to SpecsIce.
Blissey, of course, walls this set to no end.

 

[greg3064]

I see no purpose to outspeed Blissey as even Focus Blast won't be very reliable for hitting her.

Looks rather ineffective, IMO. I'd say it's outclassed by other things based on its SpA, its Speed, its typing, or any combination of those. STAB Ice Beam is decent, but its good defenses are wasted on one of the worst defensive types. Those damage calculations are unimpressive. Due to its speed it will very often have taken a hit already, and SR shaves off 25% (not good for a choice-user who will be forced out often), so odds are all of those hits (ScarfTar, CB Scizor, Heatran) will KO it.

Starmie has 100 base SpA also, but with 115 base speed it can function as a revenge killer as well. Its movepool is just as good. It resists Bullet Punch and Fire Blast (though ScarfTar still rapes it unless it switches into a Surf). Gengar is also much faster with MUCH better SpA and typing, and can handle stuff like ScarfTar, ScarfTran, and CB Scizor with Substitute + Focus Blast/HP Fire. I really don't think Regice can pull off an offensive set like that.

 

[bearsfan092]

Yeah, I'm going to have to say that Regice is kinda crappy. There are a lot of things that can force it out, making it eat 25 percent each switch in. Using Rapid Spin support would be logical, but I'd rather spin away rocks for something that can actually accomplish something. I don't think Regice has enough offensive firepower to justify a set like that.

 

[MBO20000]

Magic Hariyama

@Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252Hp 128Def 128Sp.Def
Impish Nature

Moves:
Magic Coat
Force Palm
Thunderpunch/Icepunch
Earthquake/Payback

Hariyama is a slow pokemon and because of this other fast pokemon might try so set up on it. Pokemon like Jirachi or Togekiss might try to T-wave and paraflinch it to death, or Breloom might spore and start to sub punch. But that is where magic coat comes in, both jirachi and togakiss will be crippled by having their T-wave bounched back at them and breloom will not like sleep all. This can also work with pokemon like rotom and dusknoir who might will-o-wisp hariyama to try to cripple his attacking power. Now time to talk about moves. Magic coat is needed in order put this set together and force palm is a good move to have on him so he can try and paralize pokemon that do not have a status move to use on him. The last two slots just depend on what type coverage you want. Thunderpunch can hit water pokemon like gyarados hard while icepunch can be used to hit flying and dragon types for some good damage. You can use earthquake to hit rock and steel types, but payback is the better opition as it can hit ghosts hard and force palm will already hurt rock and steel types anyway. I guess if you really want you could put firepunch on him as it will really hurt scizor and fortress but that is about it. Good partners to this hariyama will be pokemon who can take special attacks well (psychic and air-slash) because hariyama will not like being hit by those at all.

This is my frist set I made myself and it has worked pretty well for me.

 

[bearsfan092]

Even if Breloom were to come in, there's a good chance that it's already poisoned, making Magic Guard ineffective anyway. In short, bad set.

 

[Canada]

Rain Dance Jolteon

@life orb/damp rock
4HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Timid
-Rain Dance
-Substitute
-Thunder
-Hidden Power (Water)/(Grass)/(Ice)

This set is designed to come in on an enemy that will be forced out such as gyarados, suicune, vaporeon, or really any other slower, frail sweeper such as gengar or infernape. Or, ideally, jolteon's electric immunity to nab some free health too. The idea is to throw up a sub on that pokemon and either hope they switch or try to status you. The sub will block those two, but even if they attack, it's not the end of the world. All of these pokemon can be dealt with with the appropriate move. Once the sub is up, you proceed to rain dance and devastate the enemy with STAB LO thunders from jolteon's massive special attack.

Hidden power water is for the boost in rain and great nuetral coverage. You essentially have a 105 base power move with fantastic coverage. Great partner to steels who appreciate the loss of a fire weakness, offensive suicune who gets essentially a free calm mind boost, and any other team with flying, electric, or fire type weaknesses. The hidden powers are all interchangeable for your specific needs. Highest base power goes to water, the ability to nail swampert hard is grass, and the best nuetral coverage is ice. Ice also keeps you from being walled by breloom, an increasingly common threat. A mention should go to hidden power fighting because if you are behind a sub, you will be able to outspeed all forms of tyranitar and 2hko. This can be a huge help because it not only allows jolteon to have a full power, 100% accurate thunder, but if you are using jolteon on a rain team, it helps eliminate a huge pain for weather teams

Toxic spikes support from forretress or roserade is highly recomended in order to have an easier time wearing down enemies such as blissey and swampert. Which, naturally, makes agility sub petaya berry empoleon a great sweeping partner because this jolteon can support with rain and punch holes in the usual counters. I say roserade/forretress and leave out tentacruel (my favorite toxic spiker) because they both greatly benefit from rain while tenta already doesn't mind fire attacks. Also, he shares a ground weakness with jolteon.

EDIT:This is also pretty much a surefire counter to standard zapdos, being immune to it's main form of offense, and buying a free resistance to it's second option, heat wave
And this set deals upwards of 55% to damage to breloom with thunder and is very likely to 2HKO with rocks so hp ice is a little less important

 

[komoku]

Honchkrow

@Flame Orb
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 atk/252 spe/4 hp
Adamant
-Roost
-Facade
-Psycho Shift
-Night Slash

Saw that the Honchkrow page didn't have too much options for him so I made a new one.

Strategy is easy, bring him in to force a switch or to bait a switch and use psycho shift to burn the incoming target (which makes it essentially a more accurate WoW). With super luck, night slash criticals 50% of the time, and the crit overrides the drop in atk from the burn. Facade becomes 140 with the burn, and also has chance to crit. Roost is there to soak up the burn damage. I'm fairly new to competitive battling, so improvements will be welcomed.

 

[Skymin_Flower]

Honchkrow

@Flame Orb
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 atk/252 spe/4 hp
Adamant
-Roost
-Facade
-Psycho Shift
-Night Slash

Saw that the Honchkrow page didn't have too much options for him so I made a new one.

Strategy is easy, bring him in to force a switch or to bait a switch and use psycho shift to burn the incoming target (which makes it essentially a more accurate WoW). With super luck, night slash criticals 50% of the time, and the crit overrides the drop in atk from the burn. Facade becomes 140 with the burn, and also has chance to crit. I'm fairly new to competitive battling, so improvements will be welcomed.

No it doesn't, it has a 33.33% chance to crit. Which means you have a 66.66 chance of doing negligible damage (especially to bulkier pokemon) I guess the idea for this is good...but it is better used on things like Cresselia

 

[komoku]

No it doesn't, it has a 33.33% chance to crit. Which means you have a 66.66 chance of doing negligible damage (especially to bulkier pokemon) I guess the idea for this is good...but it is better used on things like Cresselia

Sorry, guess I got my math messed up. I'm thinking this might be more viable with Togekiss and Cresselia like you mentioned. I guess a lot of it is surprise factor.

Cresselia and Toge can learn trick, so that might be a good annoyer strategy: let her get burned, trick the orb away, then shift the burn to clear her up. afterwards she can soak up any statuses you predict.

 

[MrIndigo]

To get to 50% critical, you need:

Focus Energy (+2 Stages)
Night Slash (+1 Stage)
Super Luck (+1 Stage) [This doesn't do what Serebii says it does].
Razor Claw (+1 Stage).

It caps there. Typically Life Orb will give a higher average output than the extra stage.

 

[komoku]

To get to 50% critical, you need:

Focus Energy (+2 Stages)
Night Slash (+1 Stage)
Super Luck (+1 Stage) [This doesn't do what Serebii says it does].
Razor Claw (+1 Stage).

It caps there. Typically Life Orb will give a higher average output than the extra stage.

ya, I misread something on crits so that's why I ended up with the 50%. In any case, maybe night slash can be replaced with some other move that works better with this set, leaving facade as the only attack move.

 

[MrIndigo]

ya, I misread something on crits so that's why I ended up with the 50%. In any case, maybe night slash can be replaced with some other move that works better with this set, leaving facade as the only attack move.

Facade is worthless on that Honchkrow. If you want that strategy, play Swellow. It has the 210 BP Facade from STAB, and Guts so that Flame Orb is an advantage rather than a struggle.

You also get the very useful U-Turn and powerful Brave Bird, and then Protect serves as your ensured-burn and general scouting trick.

 

[bearsfan092]

That set is the definition of gimmick, I'm sorry to say. With burn, the only attack you could reliably run is facade, but then you'd be walled by nearly any steel or ghost type, the latter type Honchkrow sometimes could handle with Sucker Punch. You lose more health than a Life Orb each turn for a base 140 power Facade. If you were to use Night Slash (just an example) with Life Orb and STAB, you would have 70 *1.5*1.3=136.5 base power, just 3.5 points short of Facade with the freedom to have more than just Night Slash and still receive the power boost.

On the defensive/utility side, this set still isn't good. Honchkrow is frail, and not even Roost will save it from being OHKO'd/2HKO'd oftentimes, so if you did somehow manage to cripple a physical attacker with a burn, there's a good chance you'll be staring down the throat of a ScarfTran or similar, who will gladly roast you with Fire Blast. At best, you'll switch out and eat some SR damage, further hampering any hope of survivability, especially with burn damage. It doesn't help you that your EV spread is offensive, guaranteeing that you won't be surviving many hits, if at all.

And because of the above stated frailness, Psycho Shift is going to be hard to use. You can't really come straight in on a physical attacker, even on a post-KO switchin, as most physical attackers will outspeed and OHKO before you can fire off Psycho Shift. You can scare off some frailer attackers with the prospect of Sucker Punch, but if they get gutsy/smart and launch an attack, bye Honchkrow. Your only chance at burning much is hitting something on a switch in. For example, you could come in a Blissey and threaten Superpower, forcing a switch, but instead, you use Psycho Shift and burn the incoming pokemon, which could be a pokemon like Gyarados.

Sorry for being harsh, but that set outright sucks. Except for the barely useful physical power, I'd rather use Psycho Shift Cresselia, even though I'd probably never use that either.

 

[HolyChipmunk]

Honchkrow

@Flame Orb
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 atk/252 spe/4 hp
Adamant
-Roost
-Facade
-Psycho Shift
-Night Slash

Saw that the Honchkrow page didn't have too much options for him so I made a new one.

Strategy is easy, bring him in to force a switch or to bait a switch and use psycho shift to burn the incoming target (which makes it essentially a more accurate WoW). With super luck, night slash criticals 50% of the time, and the crit overrides the drop in atk from the burn. Facade becomes 140 with the burn, and also has chance to crit. Roost is there to soak up the burn damage. I'm fairly new to competitive battling, so improvements will be welcomed.

Wouldn't Toxic Orb be better? It's essentially the same, as it powers up facade, and doesn't cut your attack.

 

[Sy123]

Seriously if you want to spread Burn like that, then pick something like Togekiss or something please
The last thing is to make a set that another pokemon can do much better

 

[Delko]

That Honchrow is also fully walled by Steel types with Heat Wave or Superpower.
Besides Toxic/ Flame Orb is best used on a Guts or Quick Feet sweeper/ Breloom.

 

[min min]

I agree. You have no time to Roost due to Honchkrow's small bulk and I can see this switching out very often, so Rapid Spin/Wish is compulsory.
It would be fun to burn Tyrannitar/Lucario on the switch, though.

You could run Psycho Shift, Night Slash, Heat Wave and Superpower for coverage. By changing the ability to Insomnia, you can switch into Breloom and threaten it out with a Heat wave which should OHKO without and SAtk Evs. If not, then run Naughty.

Yes, Psycho Shift can be better run on stuff like this:

PassItOn Cressy

@Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs:252Hp/252Def/4Spd
Bold
~Trick
~Psycho Shift
~Thunder Wave
~Reflect/Ice Beam

This set trades recovery (which Cresselia doesn't do well with anyways) for general gimmicky messing with. Switch this into something that doesn't kill it, which is plenty, and proceed to trick a boosting sweeper hoping for a free set-up*. If you have another way to deal with Nite or Flygon, use Reflect as it gives stuff like Rotom insurance against Tyrannitar and you don't take massive damage from Pursuit. Otherwise use Ice Beam to avoid being Taunt bait. When necessary, Thunder Wave anything in sight.
The real fun is when Blissey/Vaporeon comes to get a free Wish in. If possible, Trick it on the switch, as is often my case, then pass on the Toxic to the Wish receiver or Vaporeon. It makes a good burn absorber too, nailing stuff like Scizor and Tyrannitar on the switch.

*Either that or get a totally non-threatening Scarf Scizor or weather a Tyrannitar Pursuit.

 

[Colonel Darren]

PassItOn Cressy

@Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs:252Hp/252Def/4Spd
Bold
~Trick
~Psycho Shift
~Thunder Wave
~Reflect/Ice Beam

I can attest to that set's effectiveness so long as another Scarf-abuser like Tyranitar comes in. It can both seriously muck up boosting sweepers and supporters/walls like Blissey and Clefable. I have encountered people using similar sets and they can technically ruin my stall team if I don't figure out the set on first turn.

 

[MBO20000]

Counteryama

@Leftovers
Ability:Thick Fat
Nature:Impish
EVs:252Hp 128Def 128Sp.Def
Moves:
Force Palm
Counter
Icepunch/Thunderpunch
Payback/Earthquake

Since hariyama is a bulky pokemon he will be able to take physical attacks from a lot of different pokemon because of this counter would be great surprise. He has a lot of hp so any physical attack that he lives will cause a lot of damage to the other pokemon when he counters it. Now his other moves depend on what you want to hit after a counter. Force palm is a good support move because of the 30% chance to paralyze. Thunderpunch can hit gyarados hard as well as other water types, but icepunch will do a good job at hitting flying and dragon types. Payback is probly a better idea that earthquake because it will hit ghost types hard but if you really want you could use earthquake to hit rock or steel types. Firepunch can be used if you want to hit scizor and fortress but that is about all it will do.

I have use this before and it has suprised a good amount of physical attackers.

 

[Donny Mae.]

This is the set I've been using for my Gyara, and it's been working well. I use it as a lead but it can fit in other positions.

GYARADOS
SET NAME: BULKY DD+3 Attacks.
Nature: Careful
Move 1:Dragon dance
Move 2:Outrage
Move 3:Waterfall
Move 4:Stone-Edge/Earthquake(not tested EQ yet)
Item: Leftovers/Lum Berry
Evs 252 Hp/68 atk/180 def/8 spe

EVS.
8 speed Evs hits 200 speed, enough to outspeed neutral base 100's. The Ev's make Gyarados incredibly bulky, as these calcs show, while able to deal a fair amount of damage.

-1 atk (252 Atk Adamant) Machamp's Stone-edge= 40.1% - 47.7%
(252 spec atk neutral natured) Azelf's psychic= 33% - 39.1%
-1 atk (0 atk neutral natured) Azelf's explosion= 72.6% - 85.5%
-1 atk (252 atk neutral natured) Aerodactyl's rock-slide= 35.5% - 42.6%
(0 spec atk neutral natured) Swampert's ice beam= 13.7% - 16.2%
-1 atk (252 atk neutral natured) Ttar's stone-edge= 55.3% - 66%
(252 atk neutral natured) Ttar's stone-edge= 83.8% - 99%
(9% chance of a OHKO with sand stream)
-1 atk (252 atk neutral natured) Ttar's crunch = 22.3% - 26.6%

And on the offensive;
+1 Gyarados's waterfall vs (4 hp 0 def) Ttar= 89.5% - 105.8%
+1 Gyarados's Stone-Edge vs (248 hp 228 def Bold) Zapdos= 59% - 69.5%
+1 Gyarados's Outrage vs (0 hp 0 def neutral nature) Flygon= 132.2% - 156.1%
+1 Gyarados's Waterfall vs (240 hp 0 def neutral nature) Machamp=52.2% - 61.7%

MOVESET:
The lack of taunt is fustrating, but the moves listed are there for a reason. Outrage and Earthquake have unresisted coverage, but I suppose Return could be used in tandem with Waterfall for superb coverage also. The confusion and inability to switch from outrage are almost asking opponents to switch in Agili-Gross or Skarmory to set up or "spike-up". However it is the only physical dragon move Gyarados learns.

ITEM:
Leftovers for extra durability, Lum Berry for warding off random status or the self induced confusion from outrage.


(This is also my first time posting a custom moveset, however, I've been in competitive battling for a long time :L)

Any questions/suggestions?

 

[Coldcut]

@MBO20000: You already have STAB Force Palm so why do you need the extra 10 base power from Earthquake to hit rocks and steels? Jirachi and Metagross maybe, but the paralysis from Force Palm and the coverage from another attack make up for it. Good surprise value on the set as a whole, though.

@Donny Mae.: Almost all of the pokemon you list that Gyarados is able to tank outspeed you for the 2HKO, especially after Stealth Rock, so you can't switch into these attacks.

-1 atk (252 Atk Adamant) Machamp's Stone-edge= 40.1% - 47.7% OK, but with SR that leaves you with 35% max.
(252 spec atk neutral natured) Azelf's psychic= 33% - 39.1% Azelf outspeeds and has a chance to 2HKO after SR.
-1 atk (0 atk neutral natured) Azelf's explosion= 72.6% - 85.5% You have a small chance to survive after SR.
-1 atk (252 atk neutral natured) Aerodactyl's rock-slide= 35.5% - 42.6% Aero outspeeds, probably 2HKOs after SR, and has a decent chance to flinch you if it doesn't.
(0 spec atk neutral natured) Swampert's ice beam= 13.7% - 16.2% OK, but watch out for Roar since you aren't doing much back to it.
-1 atk (252 atk neutral natured) Ttar's stone-edge= 55.3% - 66% Scarftar outspeeds for the 2HKO.
(252 atk neutral natured) Ttar's stone-edge= 83.8% - 99% OHKO after SR.
(9% chance of a OHKO with sand stream) see above.
-1 atk (252 atk neutral natured) Ttar's crunch = 22.3% - 26.6% OK, but watch out for defense drops.

And on the offensive;
+1 Gyarados's waterfall vs (4 hp 0 def) Ttar= 89.5% - 105.8% OK, but who switches Ttar into a +1 Gyarados? And Scarftar outspeeds for the revenge kill.
+1 Gyarados's Stone-Edge vs (248 hp 228 def Bold) Zapdos= 59% - 69.5% This is good, especially since you outspeed Bold versions after DD.
+1 Gyarados's Outrage vs (0 hp 0 def neutral nature) Flygon= 132.2% - 156.1% Again, Flygon is a revenge killer and won't switch into you, and it outspeeds with a Scarf, and probably even without since most will be +speed natured.
+1 Gyarados's Waterfall vs (240 hp 0 def neutral nature) Machamp=52.2% - 61.7% So you will take a Stone Edge 72% of the time (after flinch rate and accuracy).

What are some more realistic calcs for this set? Most of these are unimpressive. I would stick with the sets already in the analysis.

Also, you really don't need Outrage, since the only things left in OU that it will hit significantly harder than your other moves are Flygon (discussed earlier) and Dragonite, which is already OHKO'd almost all the time by Stone Edge after SR. You would be better off with Taunt, which might end your frustration, or Roost, which would provide some actual bulk to this set.

 

[jc104]

Counteryama

@Leftovers
Ability:Thick Fat
Nature:Impish
EVs:252Hp 128Def 128Sp.Def
Moves:
Force Palm
Counter
Icepunch/Thunderpunch
Payback/Earthquake

Since hariyama is a bulky pokemon he will be able to take physical attacks from a lot of different pokemon because of this counter would be great surprise. He has a lot of hp so any physical attack that he lives will cause a lot of damage to the other pokemon when he counters it. Now his other moves depend on what you want to hit after a counter. Force palm is a good support move because of the 30% chance to paralyze. Thunderpunch can hit gyarados hard as well as other water types, but icepunch will do a good job at hitting flying and dragon types. Payback is probly a better idea that earthquake because it will hit ghost types hard but if you really want you could use earthquake to hit rock or steel types. Firepunch can be used if you want to hit scizor and fortress but that is about all it will do.

I have use this before and it has suprised a good amount of physical attackers.

Actually, this has some potential above other counter users. The crucial thing is that Hariyama often somewhat enjoys status moves thanks to guts, meaning that people rarely toxic it. It also has resistances a number of common special attacks, notably Fire and Ice type attacks, and has great spdef when invested (you should do this more IMO.) On top of this, it has huge HP and lowish defense to do lots of damage.

To improve the set I think you should actually consider running Whirlwind to prevent stuff from setting up on you. This makes it even harder to kill Hariyama without risking that powerful counter. I would probably drop one of the punches for this. Payback is the necessary second attack. It may even be good to have some kind of recovery, such as Rest + Cleric support or a Wish user waiting in the wings.

So it's a gimmick, but one that just might work.