I do (we should probably tone down shitposts) so jokes aside pult is rlly really strong but honestly I feel it's definitely manageable rn but I certainly might change my opinion at some point
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2024 Smog Awards!
Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter Nashrock
- Start date
"WAS THAT A [BIG SHOT] JUST NOW!?"
Some people have been discussing some Pokemon that they believe to have potential, so I thought that I'd throw my hat into the ring yet again and talk about
Armarouge. I really like this Pokemon (mostly because of how its cannon reminds me of Spamton), and wanted to find a use for it in the current state of National Dex. I posted about Armarouge way back in ye olde days when Tera was still legal, where I mentioned how I was able to reach the upper ladder with a team involving it. Ever since the Tera ban, I have since wanted to revamp that old team and experiment with Armarouge again. I put Armarouge on a Scarf Lele/Zamazenta team as it synergizes well with the Psychic Terrain. After playing lots of games with the new Armarouge team (which stagnated around 1700s-1800 ELO), I do believe that it might actually be usable in the current meta. It's time for Armarouge's [Comeback Special]! ((BIG SHOT)) (Armarouge) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Armor Cannon
- Expanding Force / Psychic / Psyshock
- Focus Blast / Aura Sphere
- Calm Mind
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Armor Cannon
- Expanding Force / Psychic / Psyshock
- Focus Blast / Aura Sphere
- Calm Mind
This is similar to the Armarouge set I used on the older version of the team. The moves on the leftmost side are the moves I decided to run, separated by some other options if you want to try Armarouge for yourself! This Armarouge set's game plan is very similar to Ceruledge, where it sets up, pops the Weak Armor, then becomes [[Number 1 Rated Sweeper2022]]! I got a bit greedy and decided to go with Modest nature. With Timid nature, it can speed tie Iron Valiant, which might give you an incentive to run Timid. With just one Calm Mind, Armarouge can start hitting incredibly hard, and that power is further bolstered by Psychic Terrain. Fire/Psychic is a surprisingly hard combo for a lot of the metagame's common defensive Pokemon to switch into. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only things that naturally resist both of Armarouge's STAB moves are Latios/Latias, and Slowbro. The latter really hates taking Special attacks, even resisted ones!
+1 Modest Nature
+1 252+ SpA Armarouge Focus Blast vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 476-564 (130.7 - 154.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Armarouge Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 260-308 (50.5 - 59.9%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Armarouge Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Moltres in Psychic Terrain: 325-384 (84.8 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Armarouge Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar in Psychic Terrain: 274-324 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Armarouge Armor Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 211-250 (53.6 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Armarouge Armor Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 187-221 (47.4 - 56%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Armarouge Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 8 HP / 248 SpD Alomomola in Psychic Terrain: 511-603 (108 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Armarouge Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 322-380 (45 - 53.2%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO
+1 Timid Nature
+1 252 SpA Armarouge Focus Blast vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 436-516 (119.7 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Armarouge Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 238-282 (46.3 - 54.8%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery+1 252 SpA Armarouge Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Moltres in Psychic Terrain: 297-351 (77.5 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Armarouge Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar in Psychic Terrain: 253-298 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Armarouge Armor Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 193-228 (49.1 - 58%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Armarouge Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 8 HP / 248 SpD Alomomola in Psychic Terrain: 466-549 (98.5 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
The calcs involving Expanding Force require you to be on Psychic Terrain for that damage, but even without the terrain, a majority of them are 2HKOs with either Armor Cannon or the weakened Expanding Force. Sucker Punch is everywhere, so I think that Psychic Terrain support is pretty important if you're running Armarouge. Who doesn't want to fire a [BIG SHOT] at those Kingambits who can no longer Sucker Punch you due to the terrain! Even with many Dark Types running around, I think Armarouge can still find a use in National Dex (as long as you hit that wretched Focus Blast). You can take one Knock Off from stuff like Roaring Moon and (hopefully) KO them back with Focus Blast as long as you do a good job keeping hazards off, which shouldn't be too hard with all the great removal options we have.
I don't want to go into too much detail about the Armarouge team as I plan on writing a full length RMT on it since it has been pretty successful, but I have some replays showcasing Armarouge in action!
Here's a successful Armarouge sweep which started when I caught the Moltres' U-Turn.
This was a match I had for the Winter Seasonal, I brought Armarouge on game 1 and won with it.
I probably have more, but I don't want to search through numerous pages of replays right now. Anyways, I might seriously consider nominating Armarouge for the VR in the future. I think it has a bit of potential, I want to experiment with it a little more. So what do you guys think? Is Armarouge worthy of a grand [Comeback Special] with [[BIG SHOT]] status or is he still just a [[Little Sponge]] who hates its [[$4.99]] life?
Shoutout to all the people making quality posts here unlike a certain group of clowns that pollute the forum with uneducated garbage, love reading up on the discussion.
On another note, has anyone found a proper use case for Mega Gyarados? I tried using him a few times and it's just so hard for me to justify using over Waterpon, and even with DD his speed is so abhorrent. I do think Mold Breaker is interesting though, which is why I wonder what his best pairings are, or if he's even worth entertaining in the builder in the first place, since I personally couldn't find a good place to fit him.
On another note, has anyone found a proper use case for Mega Gyarados? I tried using him a few times and it's just so hard for me to justify using over Waterpon, and even with DD his speed is so abhorrent. I do think Mold Breaker is interesting though, which is why I wonder what his best pairings are, or if he's even worth entertaining in the builder in the first place, since I personally couldn't find a good place to fit him.
Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall / Earthquake
- Crunch
- Substitute / Taunt
I don't think Mega Gyarados is bad, rather, outclassed currently. Its also an issue since I think Mega Gyarados's viability is dependant on the state of Stall, which as of now, isn't that high either. So combine this with competition from Ogerpon-W, Roaring Moon and even Kingambit and it makes Mega Gyarados hard to justify using outside of weird role-compression. Regardless, there are a lot of cool traits Mega Gyarados and Gyarados itself have; they have a lot of setup oppurtunities thanks to their typing, access to Substitute/Taunt and Intimidate prior to Mega Evolving, such as against defensive Landorus-T, Urshifu-R, Gliscor, Alomomola and Iron Head Kingambit to name a few, and being able to break through Gholdengo, Landorus-T, Great Tusk and Heatran depending on the movepool (usually you want Waterfall since being able to beat Great Tusk is what notably differentiates Gyarados from Roaring Moon, but sometimes Earthquake is needed to beat Toxapex and Melmetal), is pretty valuable for HO teams.
Speaking of HO teams, Mega Gyarados doesn't really work on Sticky Webs in my opinion, since it fucntions better with hazard leads or screens leads such as Landorus-T, Glimmora and Grimmsnarl, especially when Mega Gyarados beats Iron Crown for the latter two. It synergises pretty well with Volcarona and Iron Valiant since it smokes Galarian Slowking, Clodsire and Gholdengo for them, while in return they handle stuff like Mega Scizor, Roaring Moon and Zamazenta. Tapu Koko as a partner could also work, since it enables Iron Valiant further, while it breaks through Corviknight and Zapdos for Mega Gyarados, while also soft-checking Raging Bolt, which Mega Gyarados hates.
Mega Gyarados is a C- Pokemon for sure, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it dropped off the VR due to a lack of usage and hard time justifying itself over Roaring Moon and Ogerpon-W who are more flexible, not weak to Stealth Rock and can fit outside of HO.
Mega Gyarados Hyper Offense
Use it with Ninetales-Alola.It's really bulky and is able to dd multi times if wall's active.Super great and I once reached 1900 with it.
I absolutely LOVE Mega Gyarados. At +2 speed it out speeds the entire tier, hits pretty much everything super effectively with eq, crunch, and waterfall, as well as being able to easily set up Great Tusk if you don’t immediately mega. Also it for some reason lives a booster energy raging bolt thunder clap? Very useful if you’re at full and they bring in their bolt. Here’s the team I’ve been using it on and used to get reqs: https://pokepast.es/0255d84aa1668995
It’s definitely a good mon for HO as it can (sometimes) break stall. As well as snowballing the moment it gets +2 and resisting the most common priority in gambit’s sucker punch. Very enjoyable to use but it really only works on HO and is a bit niche even on HO.
I haven't really experimented much with Gyarados but I think that it's actually a pretty good pick for some teams. The main problem I have with it is that it really can't pack all the moves it wants. You want something like Temper Flare to deal with Ferrothorn, Taunt or Substitute to avoid Toxic and other status effects, or Earthquake to take out stuff like Bolt. Despite that, it's still a very potent Dragon Dance sweeper, you just have to find the right time to position it. You have more than enough bulk to take a hit or two, so it might not be that difficult.
(Anyways, come on guys, talk about Armarouge! I wanted to know what everyone thought about it.)
Last edited:
megados in a vacuum isnt bad its just that every meta so far is incredibly hostile to it. the yard sun dark ages had 3 mons that incinerate megyara off rip, and the current post-moon meta has, well, moon which directly competes with it on most structures as well as general speedcreep and an inability to ever switch into pult or dengo just kinda blows frankly. crippled by status also sucks and its only a mediocre fini partner. having 2 mons that get pissed on by waterpon is never exactly fun, so you're just generally hard-pressed to find a niche for it. frankly i think haxorus is better as a mold breaker sweeper, although im still experimenting on ladder with it so you might see a viability rankings post from your favorite forum clown soon-ish
hi guys how would aegislash do rn if it had its nerfs reverted. cuz it was uber before the nerf
most likely still below gholdengo in terms of viability, i dont know how good it is in uu but im told its pretty good so increased viability there or just banned into uubl
GEN 9 National Dex (OU Singles)
Rain Pivot (Drampa) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Def / 208 SpA
IVs: 0 Atk
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- Energy Ball/Thunder
- Hurricane
- Hidden Power Rock/Draco Meteor
[SET COMMENTS]
Drampa functions as an amazing pivot in Mega Swampert Rain Teams, being able to support Mega Swampert after it lures in checks such as Grass damage from Ogerpon-Wellspring, Defensive Pivot Rotom-Wash, and Defensive Alomomola. Drampa's main niche over other pivots such as Pivot Raging Bolt/Archaludon/Dragapult is its ability to one-shot common Rain Team checks while baiting the opponent to stay in. Your bulk allows you to bait and survive an Ogerpon-Wellspring using Play Rough/Superpower while one shotting them with Hurricane. Rotom-Wash can similarly be baited into using a Will-O-Wisp or Nasty Plot while getting one shot by Energy Ball. Alomomola can be baited into using a Toxic while getting most of its health taken out by Energy Ball or one shot by Thunder. Even if the opponent pivots out their Rotom-Wash or Alomomola; you're taking minimal damage from Volt Switch and Flip Turn, respectively, and you have the option of using 100% accuracy Hurricane that can Confuse, 100% accuracy Thunder that can Paralyze, or get damage in from Energy Ball/Draco Meteor.
Other Rain Team checks such as Mega Charizard-Y/Torkoal/Ferrothorn can be countered by Drampa. For Mega Charizard-Y, Sap Sipper nullifies Solar Beam and Drampa resists Fire type Weather Ball/Fire Blast/Overheat, surviving even in Harsh Sunlight, allowing you to one shot with Hidden Power-Rock. You even have the option to use Drampa as a counter lead to Mega Charizard-Y instead of opening with a Lead Rain Setter Pelipper since Mega Charizard-Y would reset the weather to Harsh Sunlight anyways. For Torkoal, you can Counter-Lead and deal a decent amount of damage with Hidden Power-Rock. For Ferrothorn, you can pivot to deny Leech Seed/Power Whip while also dealing some damage with Flamethrower even in Rain. If there is no Rain, you one shot Ferrothorn, even if it's fully invested into SpD with a SpD boosting Nature. You can also use Drampa as a Counter-Lead to Defensive Lead Ferrothorn.
Drampa also has other options over Hidden Power-Rock/Draco Meteor. Hidden-Power Ice is a nice option to hit softer checks to Mega Swampert such as Tank Garchomp, which it doesn't one shot but deals significant damage to, and one shots Landorus-Therian/Utility Gliscor. Blizzard can be taken to make use of the Snow that Slowking-Galar creates through Chilly Reception, but this is rather niche as you would only need Blizzard to kill Tank Garchomp. Solar Beam is also an option against Sun Teams, however, most Sun Teams don't have many Pokemon that it's useful against. Surf/Hydro Pump are also decent since they get their damage boosted by the Rain. Drampa also has some utility options like Tailwind/Defog/Roar, status inflicting moves like Toxic/Thunder Wave, or you can take Rain Dance to reset the weather for your Mega Swampert.
Now for Drampa's weaknesses:
Entry Hazards can damage Drampa, lowering its HP enough so that it can't survive against certain checks like Ogerpon-Wellspring's Superpower. This can force Rain Setter Pelipper to run Defog and can require another Entry Hazard Clearing Pokemon as insurance for Drampa's HP. This is critical as Drampa's low Spe stat basically requires him to be tanky enough to survive... otherwise Drampa just dies.
Flamethrower can be frustrating to play around due to the Rain lowering its Power. You often need perfect timing as the Rain ends while also timing your pivot so that the checks you brought Flamethrower for are out on the field... which can ruin your tempo or make the game chaotic. Running a different Item instead of Damp Rock on your Rain Setter Pelipper can give you more windows of opportunity to utilize Flamethrower against Pokemon like Ferrothorn, but it comes at the cost of less time for your Mega Swampert to abuse Swift Swim in the Rain.
Much of Drampa's strength comes from its lack of usage in the meta game. The surprise factor of Drampa will disappear if its usage rate goes up but even if Drampa's usage rate doesn't rise, teams that pivot around to multiple Walls can eventually figure out Drampa's kit; nullifying the surprise factor that comes from this Pokemon.
Choice Specs makes it easy for your opponents to pivot around Drampa forcing you to switch out if it's locked into a non-useful move. While you can run similar sets that use a Life Orb instead of Choice Specs to mitigate his weakness to constant pivoting... It will prevent him from being able to one shot or survive certain checks. That extra 20% damage from Choice Specs allows him to one shot specific Pokemon such as Rotom-Wash with Energy Ball and the reduced bulk from the stat spread + the damage from Life Orb either prevents Drampa from surviving certain checks, like Ogerpon-Wellspring's Superpower, or kills him after taking out certain checks... pigeon holing him into a "one and done" wonder.
Drampa is also countered by Urshifu-Rapid Strike/Mega Lopunny/Speedy Garchomp/Raging Bolt/Tapu Lele/Iron Valiant etc. These fast and powerful Fighting/Dragon/Fairy type Pokemon all can one shot Drampa before it does anything.
Mitigating Drampa's weaknesses:
Fairy type Pokemon like Tapu Bulu/Tapu Koko/Tapu Lele/Tapu Fini can be pivots for Drampa due to their Fighting/Dragon resistances that also widens your team's capabilities.
Hatterene is useful since it resists Fighting/Dragon and can protect against Entry Hazards through its ability, Magic Bounce. It also possesses Trick Room, allowing Drampa to uno-reverse his rougher match-ups against powerful speedy kill threats.
Weezing Galar resists all of Drampa's weaknesses of Fighting/Dragon/Fairy and can get rid of Entry Hazards through Defog.
Pokemon with Wish/Grassy Terrain or Screen Setters can help you get more than 1 kill/use out of Drampa letting him potentially one shot 2-3 Pokemon on the enemy's team.
Overall, Drampa is a niche pivot Pokemon that fits into Rain Teams, but Drampa is a VERY STRONG fit for this niche and should be used more often by Rain Team players. Compared to the usual pivots of Raging Bolt/Archaludon/Dragapult: Drampa has less staying power but makes up for it by swinging wide, being a threat to many many many more Rain Team checks, and guaranteeing the kill on a lot of these Rain Team checks.
[SET CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/yoshiking123.705876/
Quality checked by:
Nobody
Grammar checked by:
Nobody
Last edited:
I don't know man, Raging Bolt and Archaludon still beat all of those examples you've given; they live Super Effective hits from Ogerpon-W and dealing massive damage in return, they both wall Rotom-W and Alomomola, and they still have better speed tiers and defensive typings compared to Drampa, while not being choice-locked. They also synergise better with Swampert, since they can both switch into Zapdos compared to Drampa who has to eat a Hurricane. Raging Bolt can also make a pivoting core with Swampert with Volt Switch, which some sets run.
Raging Bolt does all of these while not relying on Hidden Power, while benefitting from Mega Charizard Y through Protosynthesis. Same applies to Torkoal. If anything the latter is setup fodder especially if they don't use Yawn or Toxic. As for Ferrothorn, it usually gets overwhelmed by Rain teams anyways, and Iron Treads or even Pelipper are decent at doing so. It's still better than locking yourself into a 60 BP move, especially when most Mega Charizard Y don't actually want to 1v1 Drampa because it's a Dragon-type.
Combine it being outclassed by Raging Bolt and Archaludon with its horrible defensive typing, being locked into very risky moves such as Draco Meteor, Flamethrower and Surf, poor speed and lack of pivoting means it often weakens the defensive capabilities of teams it's on, folding easily into Gholdengo, Kingambit, Iron Valiant, Raging Bolt, Heatran and Tapu Koko. It's more of a momentum sink for Rain teams than it is a wallbreaker, especially since it doesn't help at all against Stall teams, and if anything it sometimes helps threats like Ferrothorn and Toxapex by being locked into bad moves because of Choice Specs.
And outside of Rain, just use Dragapult.
Add Remove Comment
AMQC, implement what you’d like
(no offense to you just felt like this was the perfect opportunity to do something like this [missed a tournament game because of this {Don’t regret a thing } ] )
AMQC, implement what you’d like
(no offense to you just felt like this was the perfect opportunity to do something like this [missed a tournament game because of this {Don’t regret a thing } ] )
In my opinion, probably OU or UUBL (and probably B or B+)
It's an upgrade to Thick Ghold that can run Phys or Spec, but does not block status like ghold and is slower.
Even pre-nerf I think the speed of it is a pretty serious problem in a current meta, at least enough that it wouldn't be overwhelming
Yall, not saying we should or anything, but like, I could see the merits of bringing down Crowned Zamazenta... kinda.
The steel type actually makes it unable to switch into Kartana or grounds unlike Zamazenta-H, and also makes it badly lose to IDBP Zama-H in a 1v1. It's also slower. Like, extremely noticably slower. To the point every form of speed control outspeeds it, and this is a *problem* for it, especially with stuff like Specs Koko.
Adding to the "Stuff it loses to" bin, Fast Ghold forces it to run Crunch over Heavy Slam to beat, which is a big problem for it, but on top of that, it can just straight up threaten an ohko with fighting Z, preventing it from switching in much worse despite its stronger defenses.
To put it differently...
Crowned Zamazenta gains very little from wasting its item slot and losing its Speed Control status.
Heavy Slam? Can't run it if you want to beat Ghold, unless you drop substitute and leave yourself extremely open.
Added Steel Type? As much of a hinderance as a help, it ends up costing it the matchup against Hero Zamazenta and every focus blast user.
Added Defenses? A nice bonus, but somewhat offset by the fact it can't run boots nor leftovers anymore.
The biggest thing it does is make you immune to Toxic, which, while a problem, isn't the only status you have to worry about. Para and especially burn are all over the place, and unless it wants to either drop a stab option or sacrifice its ghold matchup even further, it can't do much to prevent them.
(Also Infiltrator Wisp Pult exists, which kinda puts every IDBP zama in the ground at once)
TL:DR
Zamazenta-Crowned is too slow to do the speed control stuff its lesser form does, and loss of item + added weaknesses + 4mss lower its power down to something that's at least worth talking about on IDBP sets.
The steel type actually makes it unable to switch into Kartana or grounds unlike Zamazenta-H, and also makes it badly lose to IDBP Zama-H in a 1v1. It's also slower. Like, extremely noticably slower. To the point every form of speed control outspeeds it, and this is a *problem* for it, especially with stuff like Specs Koko.
Adding to the "Stuff it loses to" bin, Fast Ghold forces it to run Crunch over Heavy Slam to beat, which is a big problem for it, but on top of that, it can just straight up threaten an ohko with fighting Z, preventing it from switching in much worse despite its stronger defenses.
To put it differently...
Crowned Zamazenta gains very little from wasting its item slot and losing its Speed Control status.
Heavy Slam? Can't run it if you want to beat Ghold, unless you drop substitute and leave yourself extremely open.
Added Steel Type? As much of a hinderance as a help, it ends up costing it the matchup against Hero Zamazenta and every focus blast user.
Added Defenses? A nice bonus, but somewhat offset by the fact it can't run boots nor leftovers anymore.
The biggest thing it does is make you immune to Toxic, which, while a problem, isn't the only status you have to worry about. Para and especially burn are all over the place, and unless it wants to either drop a stab option or sacrifice its ghold matchup even further, it can't do much to prevent them.
(Also Infiltrator Wisp Pult exists, which kinda puts every IDBP zama in the ground at once)
TL:DR
Zamazenta-Crowned is too slow to do the speed control stuff its lesser form does, and loss of item + added weaknesses + 4mss lower its power down to something that's at least worth talking about on IDBP sets.
this is by far the least rhetorical thing you will ever hear me say but i just get a really fucking bad vibe from the idea of letting czama drop. its like peering down a dark hallway even though you know theres probably nothing there its just the cultural knowledge and animalistic instinct telling you there's something waiting for you
There’s definitely better things to suspect, like you said, but I do agree with this somewhat. It would literally only be used as a ID Body Press bot, and maybe a defensive mon. Which has a chance to not be broken
I do have to ask the question what does it bring to the tier?( I know this question being asked when talking about bans is kinda controversial but whatever) It would just have most likely one set and do that one thing stupidly well. Ot just doesn’t seem worth it over a Palafin or Pult suspect. With more ghosts it definitely seem possible to drop it but personally I don’t see enormous value in Crowned Zama especially when it’s borderline broken.
I agree with this it just feels like it shouldn’t be done. Like dropping Lugia in SV Ou.
Don't forget that Zamazenta-C also gets a STAB Heavy Slam, and it is one of the fattest Pokemon in the game, so imagine a 120 BP Steel Type Close Combat with no drawback, a secondary STAB option would benefit offensive Zamazenta quite a lot.
This is kinda true, but to run it it has to either sacrifice Sub or crunch.
Sub gets it wisped or twaved by a bunch of stuff, and dropping crunch makes the ghold matchup unwinnable
isnt the only wisp user in ou pult? it goes through sub anyways, and twave users wise we got ghold, pult, melm and gking which melm cant switch in anyways. i think sub is more disposable than u think
moltres can run wisp as a niche 4th move, sub also has some really nice benefits of denying some nasty move effects like flinch rates or burns from scalds. it also denies toxic from lando and alo which is huge.
Zama-C is immune to toxic though?
didn't realize this was about zamazenta-c, i assumed it was base zama since that's the one actually in ou right now
anyways, in the effort of not making this a oneliner, i wanted to bring up a pokemon that I think is kind of underrated right now
I've been spamming a team on ladder with this guy and he's been amazing. I'm going to write a rmt on it and a vr nom to boot but I think he's like c/c+ tier rn, just have to put a little more thought into it first beforehand. you're a little bulkier than rillaboom (a lot more if you invest some in hp) and the additional fairy type lets you sit on a lot of guys like shifu, bolt, sd chomp and newer guys like moon. also stone edge for SD bulu is huge since you smack the status birds out of the sky and do some serious damage to guys like skarm and corv. CC is good coverage but I never ran it because having a ground move is really good.
Last edited:
Yeah they are discussing Zama-C as a potential new unban above due to tera bandidn't realize this was about zamazenta-c, i assumed it was base zama since that's the one actually in ou right now
anyways, in the effort of not making this a oneliner, i wanted to bring up a pokemon that I think is kind of underrated right now
I've been spamming a team on ladder with this guy and he's been amazing. I'm going to write a rmt on it and a vr nom to boot but I think he's like c/c+ tier rn, just have to put a little more thought into it first beforehand. you're a little bulkier than rillaboom (a lot more if you invest some in hp) and the additional fairy type lets you sit on a lot of guys like shifu, bolt, sd chomp and newer guys like moon. also stone edge for SD bulu is huge since you smack the status birds out of the sky and do some serious damage to guys like skarm and corv. CC is good coverage but I never ran it because having a ground move is really good.