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SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon
- Thread starter stage7_4
- Start date
Or it is just a pokemon.
I mean most of the amorphous pokemon got traits from slugs, heck the ralts line has a big boner for the ghost slug love dart and gallade is pretty much the epitome of penis fencing, heck their concept as defenders of their trainer can be stretched as far as the ghost slug being a cryptid often called a fairy that protected households against the plague or the slug in japan.
we dont really need to think about it to hard, lets call it convenience for the eggmoves across this group, spiritomb used to have very important roles in chain breeding for certain moves in gen 4 and 5.
A little over thinking is in order sometimes when it comes to solving mysteries and conspiracies.
Uh, guys I think that I solved that Timeline problem, about one with the megas and another withouth the megas.
Its all in one game: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Explorers of Sky. Spoilers, I guess.
In the game, the time has stopped in the future, and Grovile and the players goes to the past fix it.
*lot of filler*
Yours finaly are able to go to fix time in the Temporal Tower, but they need to be fast, or time colapses.
There, Dusknoir grabs Grovyle and sends him to the Dark Future (Future where time has stopped.)
From there, you climb the tower and saves time. yaaay.
In Explorers Of Sky, it have the Special Episodes: you play with other pokemons, telling their story.
One of these is the "In The Future Of Darkness", where you play as Grovyle.
There, you need to run into Dialga, before he warps himself to the past and kill the player.
One of the locations that you reach is the Frozen Island. In the present, it isnt nothing special.
But in the future of darkness, its ice is powereded with power. After you defeat Dialga, everything
on the dark future starts to fade away, because the future is changed. But Arceus saves they, so it have 2 universes:
1: Time never stopped
2: Time stoped, but was fixed by Grovyle.
Remember the ice? Yea. They may have been turned into other things... like Z-Crystals and Mega Stones.
Also, a lot of pokemon in the future of darkness were Dark type, so arceus could have created the Fairy type
to equilibrate the things.
This is my theory. Makes sence? Sorry for my grammar/spelling, my counrty main language isnt english.
Its all in one game: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Explorers of Sky. Spoilers, I guess.
In the game, the time has stopped in the future, and Grovile and the players goes to the past fix it.
*lot of filler*
Yours finaly are able to go to fix time in the Temporal Tower, but they need to be fast, or time colapses.
There, Dusknoir grabs Grovyle and sends him to the Dark Future (Future where time has stopped.)
From there, you climb the tower and saves time. yaaay.
In Explorers Of Sky, it have the Special Episodes: you play with other pokemons, telling their story.
One of these is the "In The Future Of Darkness", where you play as Grovyle.
There, you need to run into Dialga, before he warps himself to the past and kill the player.
One of the locations that you reach is the Frozen Island. In the present, it isnt nothing special.
But in the future of darkness, its ice is powereded with power. After you defeat Dialga, everything
on the dark future starts to fade away, because the future is changed. But Arceus saves they, so it have 2 universes:
1: Time never stopped
2: Time stoped, but was fixed by Grovyle.
Remember the ice? Yea. They may have been turned into other things... like Z-Crystals and Mega Stones.
Also, a lot of pokemon in the future of darkness were Dark type, so arceus could have created the Fairy type
to equilibrate the things.
This is my theory. Makes sence? Sorry for my grammar/spelling, my counrty main language isnt english.
... What timeline problem? They made it very clear why the main series have two timelines:
In the Mega timeline, AZ fired the Ultimate Weapon.
In the old timeline, AZ didn't fire the Ultimate Weapon.
In addition Mystery Dungeon's connection to the main series is kind of shaky, if anything it takes place in its own dimension.
Can you pleaze, explain to me (I didnt get it)
Why in one timeline AZ fires it and in other he dont?
They never said why in the old timeline AZ never fired the Ultimate Weapon. Maybe his Floette wasn't taken/didn't die. Maybe the Ultimate Weapon just didn't work. Maybe there wasn't even a war or it ended in a more peaceful way. Who knows, GF obviously aren't too concern with "why" something happened or didn't happen, just that something happened/didn't happen which caused a change.
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My theory has a Why it have 2 timelines, while on that theory about Az you just say "this dosnt happened here", not explaining why it didnt happened AND why it have 2 timelines. But my theory has 1 flail: When the events of Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers take place? In the Mystery Dungeon Red & Team Rescue team, they say humans dont exist. In Explorers, they exist, but arent seen. In Super and Gates To Infinity, they are fairytales. If my theory is correct, then the Explorers need to be before the events of the main games - and the others need to be after it. Whitch is unlikely, but then it have 1 thing: It had a book in one of the games that sayd that "in the past, pokemons and humans married", or something along these lines. Also, in the past they didnt had pokeballs - they had the Apricorn Balls, whitch were rarer. So they could be more close to the pokemons, so they learned language? Its too confusing.
That was always odd to me too. Best I could figure is maybe the pose is based on the classical image of Atlus. Statues of Atlus statue show it carrying the world (which I guess is their best interpretation to how it would hold up the sky). What is Earth buy a giant rock and you would need to be super strong to hold it up. Thus the flexing represents super strength so that you can lift heavy stones.
Other ideas is that the HM Strength or Machamp's Poke Ride is used to move giant boulders.
Could be a reference to the Z-Move itself, the user is gathering rock to form a landmass to crush the target.
Hold it, I just reread Bulbapedia's synopsis of the Future of Darkness story.
Primal Dialga doesn't go back in time to kill the player. The future is still changed by the player character who's in the past. Grovyle, Dusknoir, and Celebi would have faded away because the past was changed but Arceus saved them.
Thus there aren't two timelines. The old timeline was ERASED so it no longer exists.
But going back to your recent post, I think its best to consider the Mystery Dungeon games to take place in their own dimension. As you pointed out, humans don't really exist in the Mystery Dungeon games. And even if the games take place in the far future, that wouldn't affect the main series game then.
"Humans dont realy exist in the mystery dungeons games" Ok, you didnt played the games. If they dont exist, then why they say that humans exist in PokemonMystery Dungeon: Explorers? And why does the dungeons are random? Chatot sayd in the Explorers: "Everytime you enter, it changes. Also, if you faint there, you loose half your money." These things arent only gameplay things. The mystery dungeons (their oficial name) were "appearing a lot recently", as said by Chatot. So they werent that common. What happened? That game is realy misterious, hum?
Hold on a tic, didn't we already have this conversation on page 102?
Eh, pretty close.
Either way my answer is a second verse, same as the first: while there's nothing that clearly and definitively puts the kibosh on your theory, there's nothing that supports it either.
I don't want to sound negative, as it's okay to share personal theories if you wish. But unless you've got a lot of strong connection points, there's not too much to talk about.
Plus we really don't have much of a timeline to begin with, more like some notes scribbled on the back of a napkin. The only things confirmed in-game about alternate timelines are:
1. Zinnia (Queen of the Mary Sue's) supposing that there might exist a world without mega evolution and it's maybe wrong to send a meteor there. It's never explicitly stated that this is the original R/S/E timeline, but admittedly vaguely implied. But given she's a hobo that thought causing country-wide environmental damage and supporting eco-terrorists was the best plan for saving the world, do we really want to take her at her word on this?
2. Anabel is a "faller" from a parallel world. It's never confirmed what world, just that she came from one. A popular theory is she's from an Emerald timeline with a battle frontier, but that's fanon not canon. Games and logic suggest it, but it's not explicit.
3. The alternate day/night cycle world where you get Cosmog in the post-game.
4. Entralink, but since that feature got cut and never really expanded, eh? The whole Dreamworld and Entralink is like a theory mine that nobody ever tapped because the cave collapsed as soon as it was found.
Based on this, I give any alternate timeline theories my strongest recommendation:
The shoulder shrugs of indecisiveness.
Regarding ice becoming mega stones and z-crystals, the games are trying hard to sell that those are made of either "infinite energy" that powers the great weapon of Kalos and is made of life energy or ultra dimensional bits from Alola's oddly high amount of extra-dimensional activity.
But then they have old ladies selling mega stones and capsule dispensers giving away z-crystals, so Gamefreak really isn't too keen on keeping a mythos together.
Eh, pretty close.
Either way my answer is a second verse, same as the first: while there's nothing that clearly and definitively puts the kibosh on your theory, there's nothing that supports it either.
I don't want to sound negative, as it's okay to share personal theories if you wish. But unless you've got a lot of strong connection points, there's not too much to talk about.
Plus we really don't have much of a timeline to begin with, more like some notes scribbled on the back of a napkin. The only things confirmed in-game about alternate timelines are:
1. Zinnia (Queen of the Mary Sue's) supposing that there might exist a world without mega evolution and it's maybe wrong to send a meteor there. It's never explicitly stated that this is the original R/S/E timeline, but admittedly vaguely implied. But given she's a hobo that thought causing country-wide environmental damage and supporting eco-terrorists was the best plan for saving the world, do we really want to take her at her word on this?
2. Anabel is a "faller" from a parallel world. It's never confirmed what world, just that she came from one. A popular theory is she's from an Emerald timeline with a battle frontier, but that's fanon not canon. Games and logic suggest it, but it's not explicit.
3. The alternate day/night cycle world where you get Cosmog in the post-game.
4. Entralink, but since that feature got cut and never really expanded, eh? The whole Dreamworld and Entralink is like a theory mine that nobody ever tapped because the cave collapsed as soon as it was found.
Based on this, I give any alternate timeline theories my strongest recommendation:
Regarding ice becoming mega stones and z-crystals, the games are trying hard to sell that those are made of either "infinite energy" that powers the great weapon of Kalos and is made of life energy or ultra dimensional bits from Alola's oddly high amount of extra-dimensional activity.
But then they have old ladies selling mega stones and capsule dispensers giving away z-crystals, so Gamefreak really isn't too keen on keeping a mythos together.
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Okay so it seems this place wasnt touched in months, and this time made me think (a lot).
So, here is my final conclusion on all of this. Might became a big (and when I mean big, it will be A LOT big).
Knowing the pokemon mystery dungeon: Explorers Of Time plot, as with the Special Episodes will help.
Im going to divide it in 3 parts, so its easy to see.
Part 1: Darkrai's Past
Acording to in-game lore, all started when Darkrai stole the time gears. Ok.
But, in a special episode, "Bidoof's Wish", we discover that Bidoof asked Jiraji for an adventure join the guild, so he can train him.
BUT we dont know WHEN that happend, so that could have happend before darkrai stole the time gears. Back to in-game lore,
the adventure (lets call it Player) reaches by an unusual method: it literaly appears in the beach. The in-game explanation is that
you was a human of the future, that went back in time to save the future but something went wrong and you turned into pokémon.
After you defeat Darkrai, it atempts to flee trought a dimensional portal, claiming that "I dont know where - or when - this is going to
leave me, but I will conquer the world from there", and after saying that he enters the portal. Palkia destroys the portal, making his
memories erased, like what happend with you in the start of the game. Now, here is my theory: Darkrai turned into a HUMAN, into the
future - yes, that one, the one where time stopped. From there, he got back in time and saved the future. So, the Player is Darkrai!
Remember about Bidoof's Wish? Yea, thats the cause of all this. Jirachi needed so that a new adventurer was born - and fast. So, all of this
happend, so a new explorer could join the Wiglytuff Guild and being trained by Bidoof. Okay, okay. I know that it HAS a darkrai in one of the
dungeons on the post-post game, but that could be another darkrai (lets call it Darkrai2). Darkrai2 could have been created by Arceus itself,
while Darkrai by the Jirachi's wish. (Basicaly, to this work, the paradox "A robot came from the future and builded itself, is it possible?"
needs to be "possible".)
Part 2: Double Timeline
Okay, so, in the end of the game we save the world saving the future. However, in the special episode "In the Future Of Darkness" we see
what happend there after we saved the future. In the end, the world is disapearing, because the future has changed and all of they are going to
die. (Yes this IS canon in the mystery-dungeon series. Too dark?) But Arceus (Probably, dialga says that it was a "pokémon stronger than him".)
saves everyone, creating a second dimension (still in-game lore). Ok, now its time to tell from where did the Mega Stones comed from. In a part
of the special episode, Grovile's soul was being ripped of his body by some weird cristals in a snow island. The snow island IS accesible in gameplay,
and no weird cristals are there, so they were only formed in the bad future. This means we have 2 dimensions: one, with the cristals and the time
stopped once, and a second, where time never stopped. The first, because time was stopped for a moment, it is 12 hours ahead of the normal (Thats why the
day/night thing in Sun and Moon is possible). The crystals were used to kill/remove soul/torturing pokémons that tryed making the time stop. these
pokémon's powers were stored by the crystals, that would become the mega-stones (This is why some pokémons, that arent strong, like Ampharos,
got a mega-stone). Arceus made in the first dimension the fairy type, so they can kill the gigant number of dark types, that survived in the bad future,
that was 100% of the time night. Now, how does these stones got to the main pokémon games? Glad you ask. This leads us to part 3.
Part 3: The Big War
Yes yours read that right. That old pokémon theory, where it happend a big war, didnt happend between humans (in my theory): It happened between
humans and inteligent pokémons. These pokémons are the ones in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon, that when they discovered that humans existed started a war to
free the not-smart pokémons, the ones that cant talk and are in the main games. This happend in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers (again), so the war was
interruptedd by the time-crisis made by Darkrai. In dimension one, after all has discovered, in the post-game you go rescue Scizor in that Ice Island (yes, in-game),
and in the second dimension (the one where you play, and time never stopped) nothing special happens. In the first, where time has stopped and the crystals are there,
you discover its mega-evolutions proprietys, and you send they to the pokémons fighting on the war, explaining why these got there in the first place. The humans win the war,
getting the mega-stones. This explains the Mystery Dungeon Timeline: First was explorers, where they say humans exist, then you have the rest of the Mystery Dungeons,
where they say humans are fairy-tales or dont exist, and these games happen a LOT of time after, after every inteligent pokémon thinking that humans dont exist anymore.
So this is my theory. Sorry for my english, and if anyone has a question tell me ok?
So, here is my final conclusion on all of this. Might became a big (and when I mean big, it will be A LOT big).
Knowing the pokemon mystery dungeon: Explorers Of Time plot, as with the Special Episodes will help.
Im going to divide it in 3 parts, so its easy to see.
Part 1: Darkrai's Past
Acording to in-game lore, all started when Darkrai stole the time gears. Ok.
But, in a special episode, "Bidoof's Wish", we discover that Bidoof asked Jiraji for an adventure join the guild, so he can train him.
BUT we dont know WHEN that happend, so that could have happend before darkrai stole the time gears. Back to in-game lore,
the adventure (lets call it Player) reaches by an unusual method: it literaly appears in the beach. The in-game explanation is that
you was a human of the future, that went back in time to save the future but something went wrong and you turned into pokémon.
After you defeat Darkrai, it atempts to flee trought a dimensional portal, claiming that "I dont know where - or when - this is going to
leave me, but I will conquer the world from there", and after saying that he enters the portal. Palkia destroys the portal, making his
memories erased, like what happend with you in the start of the game. Now, here is my theory: Darkrai turned into a HUMAN, into the
future - yes, that one, the one where time stopped. From there, he got back in time and saved the future. So, the Player is Darkrai!
Remember about Bidoof's Wish? Yea, thats the cause of all this. Jirachi needed so that a new adventurer was born - and fast. So, all of this
happend, so a new explorer could join the Wiglytuff Guild and being trained by Bidoof. Okay, okay. I know that it HAS a darkrai in one of the
dungeons on the post-post game, but that could be another darkrai (lets call it Darkrai2). Darkrai2 could have been created by Arceus itself,
while Darkrai by the Jirachi's wish. (Basicaly, to this work, the paradox "A robot came from the future and builded itself, is it possible?"
needs to be "possible".)
Part 2: Double Timeline
Okay, so, in the end of the game we save the world saving the future. However, in the special episode "In the Future Of Darkness" we see
what happend there after we saved the future. In the end, the world is disapearing, because the future has changed and all of they are going to
die. (Yes this IS canon in the mystery-dungeon series. Too dark?) But Arceus (Probably, dialga says that it was a "pokémon stronger than him".)
saves everyone, creating a second dimension (still in-game lore). Ok, now its time to tell from where did the Mega Stones comed from. In a part
of the special episode, Grovile's soul was being ripped of his body by some weird cristals in a snow island. The snow island IS accesible in gameplay,
and no weird cristals are there, so they were only formed in the bad future. This means we have 2 dimensions: one, with the cristals and the time
stopped once, and a second, where time never stopped. The first, because time was stopped for a moment, it is 12 hours ahead of the normal (Thats why the
day/night thing in Sun and Moon is possible). The crystals were used to kill/remove soul/torturing pokémons that tryed making the time stop. these
pokémon's powers were stored by the crystals, that would become the mega-stones (This is why some pokémons, that arent strong, like Ampharos,
got a mega-stone). Arceus made in the first dimension the fairy type, so they can kill the gigant number of dark types, that survived in the bad future,
that was 100% of the time night. Now, how does these stones got to the main pokémon games? Glad you ask. This leads us to part 3.
Part 3: The Big War
Yes yours read that right. That old pokémon theory, where it happend a big war, didnt happend between humans (in my theory): It happened between
humans and inteligent pokémons. These pokémons are the ones in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon, that when they discovered that humans existed started a war to
free the not-smart pokémons, the ones that cant talk and are in the main games. This happend in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers (again), so the war was
interruptedd by the time-crisis made by Darkrai. In dimension one, after all has discovered, in the post-game you go rescue Scizor in that Ice Island (yes, in-game),
and in the second dimension (the one where you play, and time never stopped) nothing special happens. In the first, where time has stopped and the crystals are there,
you discover its mega-evolutions proprietys, and you send they to the pokémons fighting on the war, explaining why these got there in the first place. The humans win the war,
getting the mega-stones. This explains the Mystery Dungeon Timeline: First was explorers, where they say humans exist, then you have the rest of the Mystery Dungeons,
where they say humans are fairy-tales or dont exist, and these games happen a LOT of time after, after every inteligent pokémon thinking that humans dont exist anymore.
So this is my theory. Sorry for my english, and if anyone has a question tell me ok?
Hi peoples! I am new here but I have read all 107 pages of this thread and a few questions were raised in my mind. If it is relevant I play sun so most of my thoughts will be about gen 7.
My first question, from a scientific perspective is how it is possible to clone z-crystals infinitely. If you cut something in half infinite times you eventually end up splitting atoms which trainers likely do not have the tools to do. Also the held item sprite shows a full crystal on every Pokemon that holds one, even when my entire party held normalium z. My best theory is that the aura of z-power can crystallize particles in air, but with the number Guzma has he would be unable to breathe! I got nothing...
Next mystery. When you step up to a large pile of berries, a wild Pokemon jumps out. Why is it always a crabrawler? Other Pokemon eat berries too, when you give them to them. Why wouldn't they in the wild?
On another unrelated note about berries that probably breaks orange islands rules, why doesn't the Berry stock diminish as you take berries but disappears entirely after the last one? Was gf too lazy to make smaller Berry pile sprites?
Please get this thread going again with your thoughts as I loved the last 30 pages! And OOH I SCIENCED
My first question, from a scientific perspective is how it is possible to clone z-crystals infinitely. If you cut something in half infinite times you eventually end up splitting atoms which trainers likely do not have the tools to do. Also the held item sprite shows a full crystal on every Pokemon that holds one, even when my entire party held normalium z. My best theory is that the aura of z-power can crystallize particles in air, but with the number Guzma has he would be unable to breathe! I got nothing...
Next mystery. When you step up to a large pile of berries, a wild Pokemon jumps out. Why is it always a crabrawler? Other Pokemon eat berries too, when you give them to them. Why wouldn't they in the wild?
On another unrelated note about berries that probably breaks orange islands rules, why doesn't the Berry stock diminish as you take berries but disappears entirely after the last one? Was gf too lazy to make smaller Berry pile sprites?
Please get this thread going again with your thoughts as I loved the last 30 pages! And OOH I SCIENCED
They never really explain how Z-Crystals are made, or even the Z-Rings for that matter (the player and Hapu get them through Sparkling Stones given out by a Tapu, but everyone else seems to get it through a different way) so they could very well just be manufactured or created by some Pokemon, probably the Tapus themselves.
Pretty much, they just didn't care. Which is also why the berry pile overworld model shows berries that cannot be obtained from the tree you are harvesting from at that moment.
Z-rings are manufactured by the Kahunas using "sparkling stones" given to them by the Tapu. It's why everyone is surprised by the player being given one of those directly.
But where did Anabel, Colress, Dexio, and Sina get there's? Anabel, Dexio, and Sina just arrived to Alola and I don't really see Colress being seen worthy enough to have one (unless he created a fake one).
They may have learned to mimic the technology behind the Z-rings. Remember that Z-moves are unleashed through "the bond between Pokemon and trainers", which we know that at the very least Colress has investigated a lot about
I'm guessing that the actual Z-crystal never leaves the trainer's bag unless it's to be plugged in to the Z-Ring/its equivalent in future generations. That may be why one can't actually trade them across the games. (which is unfortunate for those who missed the event Z-Crystals in Sun and Moon) Perhaps just a small representation of its power is given, like a marker for the energy for when you want to do a Z-Move with that Pokemon?
I imagine that most other Pokemon that may eat the berries don't bury themselves beneath a pile like Crabrawler do. The berry trees have never shown how many berries they actually hold in any generation that features them in the game itself. Really, all the piles have to do is show that there are berries there, not how many there are.
At least for Dexio and Sina the Mega Ring might be able to function as a Z-ring, as in-game the two are seemingly interchangeable depending on what the Pokemon has equipped. That might explain the others NPC's too, given how mega-stones in Alola have gone from rare to "buy in bulk."
I know technically Dexio and Sina have to give you the keystone first before the Z-ring's mega-evolution function works, but there's no evidence saying that the Mega Ring requires anything special to function as a Z-ring (other than equipping your 'mon with a Z-crystal).