No, one red orb per team.
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M&M Mix and Mega
- Thread starter xavgb
- Start date
When are Samples gonna be updated? And which ones will be added?
It has been a long while in the coming, and seems to be quite essential to help beginners. To assist, I'll compile all the teams ^^
LIST of TEAMS:
https://pokepast.es/f7a692724f4599aa RP Pdon Offense by Chazmic
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/crossing-fields-1-peak-a-mnm-rmt.3650320/ Crossing Fields by TectonicDestroyer
https://pokepast.es/5df7c4c571d8e10a Electric Webs by Stresh
https://pokepast.es/e561bcd7baf9faa9 Mark K Modern Webs
https://pokepast.es/c00880b64f497e1e Smeargle Webs by TheSecondBest
PM ME IF I MISSED ONE. All teams with lando (e.g. Geerat webs) are omitted.
Not important, but second querry
Tagging Quantum Tesseract
It has been a long while in the coming, and seems to be quite essential to help beginners. To assist, I'll compile all the teams ^^
LIST of TEAMS:
https://pokepast.es/f7a692724f4599aa RP Pdon Offense by Chazmic
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/crossing-fields-1-peak-a-mnm-rmt.3650320/ Crossing Fields by TectonicDestroyer
https://pokepast.es/5df7c4c571d8e10a Electric Webs by Stresh
https://pokepast.es/e561bcd7baf9faa9 Mark K Modern Webs
https://pokepast.es/c00880b64f497e1e Smeargle Webs by TheSecondBest
PM ME IF I MISSED ONE. All teams with lando (e.g. Geerat webs) are omitted.
Not important, but second querry
2. Unbanning MGar?
The STag Ban was mainly for Gothielle, which completely walls much of the stally metagame. However, MGar seems to be not close to as powerful, and maybe a suspect for unbanning it be allowed?
The STag Ban was mainly for Gothielle, which completely walls much of the stally metagame. However, MGar seems to be not close to as powerful, and maybe a suspect for unbanning it be allowed?
Tagging Quantum Tesseract
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I thought I'd take some time to lay down some of my own thoughts on the metagame and share some cool mons/sets that are stronger than usual right now.
Magearna @ Manectite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Pain Split
Just throwing this in here because whilst it's pretty boring to look at by now, this set becoming the main Magearna set probably has a larger impact on the metagame than any other recent trend. With such a highly used mon switching its main set from a specially defensive wall/specially offensive wallbreaker to a physically defensive wall, this affects the standing of many mons in the metagame.
- Kartana has taken a hit because of this trend, as Manectite Magearna is a much better check to Kartana than any other Magearna variant, living more hits and actually having the coverage to OHKO Kartana. It is also worth noting that the scenarios in which Kartana can become particularly dangerous to teams are tackled by running Magearna, as it isn't lured by the Pinsirite set, isn't weak to rocks, and doesn't crumble to Metagrossite Kartana's Return either. It also isn't beaten by Diancite, although that is still a very fringe set. However, Kartana is still quite useful to offensive builds, providing an offensive check to Altarianite Zygarde and often requiring two checks to stop comfortably (often Manectite Magearna + a check to Metagrossite Kartana with recovery).
- Altarianite Zygarde gains a new wall in Manectite Magearna, and unlike other checks such as Wisp Arceus it struggles to bypass Magearna even with alternative options in its 4th moveslot. This makes Alt Zyg less effective as a breaker/sweeper, forcing it into more utility roles in games where it faces Manectite Magearna. Altarianite Zygarde as a whole isn't swayed too much in viability by most trends, as it still helps out a lot of teams in matchups against the likes of Terrakion and Lucarionite Zygarde, whilst providing priority, a good set of resistances, and a neutrality to rocks.
- Zeraora has been on an upwards trend recently for other reasons, but one of the things holding it back is Magearna. Since Manectite Magearna mostly features on balance builds, and Zeraora has the ability to break various other balance staples such as Support Arceus, Zeraora can be annoyed by teams with Manectite Mage since it takes a while to wear down into range of anything Zeraora can throw at it. This matchup is notably improved by Substitute variants of Zeraora, which can take Magearna out from a higher amount of hp due to Fleur Cannon drops and Substitute blocking Pain Split.
- Magearna doesn't really beat Terrakion well, but it can make it more difficult for Terrakion to break through teams depending on its partners. For example, pairing Magearna with Lunala or Altarianite Zygarde gives the team a resistance to each of Terrakion's STAB moves, as well as a couple of safe switchins. As a result of this, Terrakion finds it more difficult to break down these cores than previously where Stone Edge would do very solid chip to Magearna and one correct Close Combat prediction on a Magearna would allow Terrakion to break through. Terrakion can still adapt to this by running different filler options such as Stealth Rock or Substitute, as well as Diancite sets that are more geared towards acting as speed control and threatening offensive teams than breaking down balance.
- Pdon benefits here, not because of the shift in defensive investment, but instead the drop in offensive variants of Magearna. Pdon can use Magearna as a free opportunity to come in and fire off attacks, gaining momentum for the team. It also helps to stop Magearna from healing up with Pain Split in the long term, since Pdon tends to get worn down alongside Magearna, effectively dampening the Pain Split healing. Against more offensive teams with Magearna, Rock Polish is much easier to set up, especially as this Magearna lacks Heart Swap. Additionally, the drop in power allows mixed offensive Pdon sets to come in more easily, and this can pose a threat to some balances. However, a lot of teams around Magearna carry bouncers such as Mandibuzz and Slowbro that can prevent Pdon from getting rocks, and often Pdon alone wont be enough to make progress.
- Tapu Lele is a standout mon that can take advantage of Magearna teams right now. Due to the lack of Special Defense investment and the lack of Heart Swap, Lucarionite Tapu Lele poses a huge threat to most teams using Manectite Magearna, and even though Magearna doesn't really beat Tapu Lele, it can still find itself pressured to come in because of the lack of other resists. As a wallbreaker, this unlocks a lot of potential in the first four mons that I have mentioned here, being able to weaken a main check whilst the other mons can provide much needed role compression to cover for Lele's lack of defensive roles. Diancite Tapu Lele can act as speed control whilst doing a similar job, but since it tends to be used later in the game than Lucarionite Lele (due to higher speed and lower bulk post-mega), it's not as effective at removing Magearna for teammates to take advantage.
The first four mons can still be used to good effect, especially when paired with the last two, since this is still just one mon, and there are still other popular Magearna sets that don't affect those mons such as Pinsirite. Balance also has various ways to adapt to these cores, such as the bouncers mentioned earlier in the Pdon point, Lunala to help scouting Tapu Lele, and extra physical walls to handle the first four if Magearna gets worn down (mainly Arceus formes).
Some other mons that I feel are strong in the meta rn:
- Fairyceus has seen a rise in popularity lately due to how well it fits on balance, taking on threats such as Zygarde and Terrakion. One of the benefits of running Fairyceus over other Arceus formes is that it can perform its roles with two moves (Judgment+Recover) so it has free slots that can be customized to choose between moves such as Defog, Stealth Rock, Toxic, Will-O-Wisp and Earth Power on support sets, and Fire Blast/Earth Power/Refresh on Calm Mind sets, which still double up as checks to Zygarde and Terrakion nicely. While this has always been the case with Fairyceus, the current metagame allows it to run these sets at a smaller cost. For example, Fairyceus can fit in nicely to various teams with Defog+Toxic, since the metagame allows it to take on a large enough portion of rockers to the point where a secondary hazard deterrent usually keeps rocks off the field. This enables checks to Magearna such as Ho-Oh to fit on teams more easily. However, in older versions of the meta Fairyceus struggled more to run Toxic, as it didn't do enough damage to the more popular offensive Magearna variants, Rocks were harder to keep off the field, and other Steel types such as Necrozma-DM were more common. This led to most Fairyceus running Wisp>Toxic, which ran into its own problems when pressuring Pdon and Victini, creating a case of 4 moveslot syndrome.
- Gira-O is an interesting Defog option on some offensive builds, providing a Pdon check that can also handle Rock Polish (important since offensive builds struggle with RP don) as well as a soft check to Kartana. On top of this, its useful set of immunities and resistances allow it to come in fairly freely on certain moves such as Pdon's Precipice Blades, Kartana's Sacred Sword, Terrakion's Close Combat and Zeraora's Plasma Fists, making it harder for the opponent to play around it. It also has access to some decent 4th slots in Shadow Sneak, Thunder Wave, Toxic, and Will-O-Wisp, all of which can be useful depending on what you want Giratina-O to break or check. One notable weakness of Gira-O is that it's largely outclassed by Defog Lunala, which performs similar roles, but Gira-O can often be played more aggressively against the likes of Defensive Pdon and has more freedom in its moveslots since it doesn't need to Roost repeatedly and can handle stuff like chipped offensive mons (particularly Lunala) with Shadow Sneak. It also doesn't necessarily need to use Defog as much as it is bulkier than Lunala without counting Shadow Shield.
Some more cool sets:
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 44 HP / 104 Def / 252 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Substitute
Xerneas fell from grace in the meta a while ago, partially due to the fact that defensive checks for it were commonplace, but also largely because even unprepared teams had a good chance to deal with it in an emergency, by chipping it on its setup turn and putting Xerneas into the range of an -atespeeder. Now that one of its main defensive checks in Magearna isn't running Heart Swap, Geoxern has more freedom to put in work, and in particular Substitute over Thunder is a neat option on Geoxern. Substitute allows Xerneas to set up in a wider range of scenarios without fearing atespeed as much. For example, Substitute can be used to set up a Geomancy+Substitute against Support Arceus formes (except for Fairy) and allows Xerneas to avoid being checked by combinations of attacks such as Lunala's Z-Move followed by Altarianite Zygarde or Entei. On top of that, Sub Xern can even use Manectite Magearna as setup bait. Another scenario that also comes up when dealing with Geoxern is using the mon that's already out to chip Xerneas into range of priority, and then sacking whichever mon is least useful in the matchup, before going to their priority user to finish off Xern. Substitute also complicates this scenario by punishing these sacks, often with a sweep.
Genesect @ Manectite
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
Slightly different take on Genesect. Credits to Chazm for this set. This pretty much acts as an alternative to Manectite Magearna on some more offensive builds, being able to hold off various physical attackers and gain momentum. The speed investment allows Genesect to outpace Lucarionite Mamoswine (and more importantly Adamant Lucarionite Zygarde/Modest Lucarionite Lele). The positives and negatives comparing to Manec Mage are as follows:
+ Ground neutrality (helpful for scouting Zygarde)
+ Unblockable pivot
+ Speed (Allows Gene to do things such as break Lunala's Shadow Shield with U-turn whilst avoiding damage)
+ Free Magearna slot (allows stuff like Pins Mage)
- Flying neutrality (hurts the matchup against Pins Mage and Zeraora)
- Doesn't check Lucarionite Terrakion
- No recovery (Doesn't matter as much on offense as it should be claiming as many opportunities as possible to gain momentum)
- Weaker (Also doesn't matter much since it should be U-turning on most mons that switch in)
This Genesect needs to be paired with very strong breakers, the most notable of which would be Pogre as it can take advantage of Genesect U-turning on Pdon.
Also a couple of memes for anyone who wants to try and use them:
Froslass @ Diancite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond
Literally just because Spikes. If you're lucky you'll get to Dbond something as it pretty much outspeeds everything and threatens Alt Zyg. Horribly weak though, doesn't even 2HKO Mandibuzz lol.
Rhyperior @ Lucarionite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
Adamant outspeeds Meta Kartana at +2 and chunks it pretty heavily, doesn't outspeed Diancite Lele or Zeraora though, which is a big advantage of running Jolly. This may have some potential use as a Zeraora/Pins Mage check that can clean lategame and threaten some things with SD but honestly I haven't figured out how to fit it on a team yet.
More stuff will follow once I'm done with this seasonal, I'll try to be more specific then so you can see more of the things i've said in action.
Magearna @ Manectite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Pain Split
Just throwing this in here because whilst it's pretty boring to look at by now, this set becoming the main Magearna set probably has a larger impact on the metagame than any other recent trend. With such a highly used mon switching its main set from a specially defensive wall/specially offensive wallbreaker to a physically defensive wall, this affects the standing of many mons in the metagame.
The first four mons can still be used to good effect, especially when paired with the last two, since this is still just one mon, and there are still other popular Magearna sets that don't affect those mons such as Pinsirite. Balance also has various ways to adapt to these cores, such as the bouncers mentioned earlier in the Pdon point, Lunala to help scouting Tapu Lele, and extra physical walls to handle the first four if Magearna gets worn down (mainly Arceus formes).
Some other mons that I feel are strong in the meta rn:
Some more cool sets:
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 44 HP / 104 Def / 252 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Substitute
Xerneas fell from grace in the meta a while ago, partially due to the fact that defensive checks for it were commonplace, but also largely because even unprepared teams had a good chance to deal with it in an emergency, by chipping it on its setup turn and putting Xerneas into the range of an -atespeeder. Now that one of its main defensive checks in Magearna isn't running Heart Swap, Geoxern has more freedom to put in work, and in particular Substitute over Thunder is a neat option on Geoxern. Substitute allows Xerneas to set up in a wider range of scenarios without fearing atespeed as much. For example, Substitute can be used to set up a Geomancy+Substitute against Support Arceus formes (except for Fairy) and allows Xerneas to avoid being checked by combinations of attacks such as Lunala's Z-Move followed by Altarianite Zygarde or Entei. On top of that, Sub Xern can even use Manectite Magearna as setup bait. Another scenario that also comes up when dealing with Geoxern is using the mon that's already out to chip Xerneas into range of priority, and then sacking whichever mon is least useful in the matchup, before going to their priority user to finish off Xern. Substitute also complicates this scenario by punishing these sacks, often with a sweep.
Genesect @ Manectite
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
Slightly different take on Genesect. Credits to Chazm for this set. This pretty much acts as an alternative to Manectite Magearna on some more offensive builds, being able to hold off various physical attackers and gain momentum. The speed investment allows Genesect to outpace Lucarionite Mamoswine (and more importantly Adamant Lucarionite Zygarde/Modest Lucarionite Lele). The positives and negatives comparing to Manec Mage are as follows:
+ Ground neutrality (helpful for scouting Zygarde)
+ Unblockable pivot
+ Speed (Allows Gene to do things such as break Lunala's Shadow Shield with U-turn whilst avoiding damage)
+ Free Magearna slot (allows stuff like Pins Mage)
- Flying neutrality (hurts the matchup against Pins Mage and Zeraora)
- Doesn't check Lucarionite Terrakion
- No recovery (Doesn't matter as much on offense as it should be claiming as many opportunities as possible to gain momentum)
- Weaker (Also doesn't matter much since it should be U-turning on most mons that switch in)
This Genesect needs to be paired with very strong breakers, the most notable of which would be Pogre as it can take advantage of Genesect U-turning on Pdon.
Also a couple of memes for anyone who wants to try and use them:
Froslass @ Diancite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond
Literally just because Spikes. If you're lucky you'll get to Dbond something as it pretty much outspeeds everything and threatens Alt Zyg. Horribly weak though, doesn't even 2HKO Mandibuzz lol.
Rhyperior @ Lucarionite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
Adamant outspeeds Meta Kartana at +2 and chunks it pretty heavily, doesn't outspeed Diancite Lele or Zeraora though, which is a big advantage of running Jolly. This may have some potential use as a Zeraora/Pins Mage check that can clean lategame and threaten some things with SD but honestly I haven't figured out how to fit it on a team yet.
More stuff will follow once I'm done with this seasonal, I'll try to be more specific then so you can see more of the things i've said in action.
Gonna address the Mega Gengar point as Samples needing an update desperately has been an issue for over a year now but anyways
I really don't wanna get into the whole issue of Mega Gengar itself and whether or not it's uncompetitive by virtue of Shadow Tag since it's been a long drawn out argument ever since the Shadow Tag ban, but I'll just leave it at I don't think Mega Gengar is an exception to Shadow Tag's uncompetitiveness, Mega Gengar can still find ways to trap bulkier and slower Pokemon, which in a meta like Mix and Mega where the power creep is so high could easily be the decider in games. (the majority of the council shares this view as well so I highly doubt a Shadow Tag retest will ever be considered.) The last time we voted on a Shadow Tag retest, the votes were pretty hard against it, and the decision was based on principle rather than the metagame itself, so shifts since then haven't effected our views.
More importantly against a Shadow Tag retest, I believe that the meta is in a really good place right now. There aren't any threats that pop out as broken at the moment (which could always change by the end of Generation 7). Given that, I think a suspect or retest in any capacity is unnecessary with only a few months left in the generation unless they're absolutely needed. In Generation 8 Shadow Tag will likely be unbanned, with Mega Gengar along with it, which is a much more plausible way to reassess it's effect on the metagame rather than further argument on an ability that we already decided was uncompetitive in this generation's metagame.
How did I miss that post about a Stag retest
I agree mostly with what you said about the meta being in a good place, well done to the whole council ^^. About Gen8 would be okay for me ^^.
But seriously, QT, GET SAMPLES DONE
Quantum Tesseract, my bro, get them done, its been "desperately has been an issue for over a year now".
#Ifoundemojis
After going through all the submissions on this thread as well as the ones sent directly to the council, we have updated samples (finally). New teams can be found in this post:
SAMPLE TEAMS
Rules for Posting:
Format for posting:
- Be sure to test the team you post in tournaments and on the ladder. This isn't an absolute rule, but teams should have reached at least top 20 in the ladder, and a GXE of 70+ shouldn't be too much to ask for.
- Be sure this team is easy to pick up on and newer players can still use it and learn. Your team could be amazing, the best ever, but if it's too hard to play with unless you're experienced, it's not going to be allowed.
- Posting replays also will help people see how to play with your team (not required, but is recommended.)
- Follow the proper format when posting. I'll fix minor errors, but don't make me completely rewrite it.
Playstyle (offense, stall, etc)
Team export (in hide tags)
Short description on how the team works.
Sample Teams:
-Zeraora Bulky Offense by In The Hills
-Altarianite Genesect Bulky Offense by Andyboy
-Rock Polish Primal Groudon Offense by Chazm
-Banettite Toxapex Balance by Andyboy
-Slowbro Balance by In The Hills
-Palossand Stall by Funbot28 and Pigeons
-Sticky Web Hyper Offense by xavgb
-Sticky Web Hyper Offense by Andyboy
Council Update!
Chazm has been added back to the council due to him returning from his hiatus and showing continued interest since. His opinions were always helpful before his departure and I'm sure that his input will remain paramount in ensuring this metagame stays strong through to Gen 8 and beyond.
On another note, Quantum Tesseract is stepping down due to inactivity. Quantum has been a fundamental member of our council for years, being one of the most influential users within the progression of our metagame. It would be an understatement to say that Quantum has been important in making sure this metagame has remained as popular and successful as it is. Thank you for your massive commitment to this metagame.
Chazm has been added back to the council due to him returning from his hiatus and showing continued interest since. His opinions were always helpful before his departure and I'm sure that his input will remain paramount in ensuring this metagame stays strong through to Gen 8 and beyond.
On another note, Quantum Tesseract is stepping down due to inactivity. Quantum has been a fundamental member of our council for years, being one of the most influential users within the progression of our metagame. It would be an understatement to say that Quantum has been important in making sure this metagame has remained as popular and successful as it is. Thank you for your massive commitment to this metagame.
Lunala is a big threat due to a lack of solid dark types in the tier, and Seismic Toss Blissey is walled by it. However, if you already have solid Lunala checks, Seismic Toss can be better due to its consistent damage.
I want to add that another major flaw of Psywave is that you can't use Wish with Psywave.
Hello guys
I'm starting in this meta now and want to share this:
Darkrai @ Sceptilite
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spacial Rend
- Sludge Bomb
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
Yes, it's 4x weak to fairy but... Darkrai can mega evolve and use STAB Spacial Rend (that It learns somehow, along with Roar of Time). Scpilite gives It base 160 speed and 175 SPatk. This thing is picking KOs for me, and 1v1oned sableye-blissey bc +6 Spacial Rend Hurts arround 70-80% with no crit.
I paired It with scarf lele to stop pixilate ESpeed and metagrossite Genesect (yet another mon that can megaevolve) for checking fairies.
Xerneas is Still a problem, any tips? Thanks :)
Sry for bad english
I'm starting in this meta now and want to share this:
Darkrai @ Sceptilite
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spacial Rend
- Sludge Bomb
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
Yes, it's 4x weak to fairy but... Darkrai can mega evolve and use STAB Spacial Rend (that It learns somehow, along with Roar of Time). Scpilite gives It base 160 speed and 175 SPatk. This thing is picking KOs for me, and 1v1oned sableye-blissey bc +6 Spacial Rend Hurts arround 70-80% with no crit.
I paired It with scarf lele to stop pixilate ESpeed and metagrossite Genesect (yet another mon that can megaevolve) for checking fairies.
Xerneas is Still a problem, any tips? Thanks :)
Sry for bad english
Use the last EV on spe def against SR. Magearna is a trouble for this pokemon, but it's a good pokemon anyway with a viable set
.
This is an interesting set, and I suppose it could be viable option. Obviously fairies are a huge issue, and your dragon stab clearly doesn’t help with that. Magearna is a much bigger threat to your overall core than Xerneas imo, and Primal Groudon is a must for your team as a defensive fairy resist, as it can check Magearna and Xerneas.
Lele and Darkrai is definitely a strong special core to build around and should bring you success. However, I’d also recommend testing one of Lele’s other sets like Lucarionite or Diancite. Generally, with the exception of mons banned from mega evolving, you want to use stones over other items.
First of all, welcome to the Mix and Mega Meta! ^^
You posted a nice set there, using a mon which has been falling in the viability rankings regularly. However, I'm still doubting the real power of sceptilite. Other the dragon STAB is nice, it is not especially helpful in most situations, and outclassed by other stones. Diancite hits a much higher speed while having magic bounce to stop it getting thunder waved or toxic'd, while blastoisinite makes dark pulse hit ever harder, and most the time you would prefer Blastoisinite's mega launcher boosted dark pulse to Sceptilites Spacial Rend (they both hit roughly the same things).
And to respond to the mag problem darkrai has, you could use Red Orb to patch this up. Not only does Red Orb get rid of magearna, but also gets rid of the fairy type weakness, allowing it to get hit by 1 Pixispeed so it isnt just fairy bait.
But its a nice set to use, it'll be interesting to see how that set will go in the meta :) Again, welcome, and hope you have great time playing Mix and Mega!
could you post some replays against other players and bots?
anyways, nice meta!
So I've started playing this tier a few days ago, using Lucarionite Tapu Lele, Altarianite Entei, and Sp. Def Arceus Water, plus an Aggronite Celebi set I made up with (probably not the first and there are probably much better options), Blue Orb Swellow (for accurate Hurricanes, it's not as helpful as I hoped it would be) and a Banettite Garchomp.
I keep running into a player with a team of mons holding their native Mega Stones, then quitting as soon as I Mega something, calling me a "glitcher noob"
I watched another battle of his and he kept insulting his opponents and calling them noobs. I felt bad for the guy at first but now, not so much since he's clearly a dick
I keep running into a player with a team of mons holding their native Mega Stones, then quitting as soon as I Mega something, calling me a "glitcher noob"
I watched another battle of his and he kept insulting his opponents and calling them noobs. I felt bad for the guy at first but now, not so much since he's clearly a dick
It'll get better as you get out of bottom ladder. There's not a lot that can practically be done about the bottom ladder of Mix and Mega, where people don't really understand the metagame.
As for the team.... If you're going to be using Swellow you should be using Salamencite, and you should be using Noivern. Boomburst is really strong. The set should be in the resources on the first page.
I'm not sure about Banettite Garchomp either, unless it's some sort of Sleep Talk phaser. Either way you're probably better off using Zygarde (I think Banettite is a set?).
Aggronite Celebi sounds alright, but Buzzwole is a similar and much more standard option. It has much more physical bulk, although less special bulk, and can't do some of the things Celebi can thanks to its movepool (set Stealth Rock, Paralyze, run a pivot move).
Overall I would just aim to get out of low ladder, so you can get some good battles which will help you learn the metagame better, or stop by the Other Metas room to discuss the meta or find battles
Honestly low ladder MnM like that angry guy is just hilarious to watch. People just use awful sets and don’t seem to understand the “Mix” part of “Mix and Mega”.
Since the most recent MnM Seasonal is over, here's a few techs from me:
Very useful on Bulky Offense and Balance teams. Effectively acts as a 'free mon' slot with added utilities that more offensive teams would appreciate, such as reviving worn down blanket checks and checking certain threatening wallbreakers, i.e Lunala.
It is also capable of doing excellent in the hazard game, staving off Stealth Rock from Primal Groudon and other setters that would require an Explosion to get through, solid for teams that would otherwise need an absorber for a strong utility mon such as Ho-oh. Other than that; not much to say about this mon.
Nice utility option for Mandibuzz / Ho-oh weak teams as the free space on the third slot over Toxic gives Primal Groudon a few more options on what to check. Losing Overheat + Toxic as a combo to wear down Supportceus can be lame but as Mandibuzz and Slowbro get more popular as defensive Primal Groudon countermeasures, this set thrives on their presence and provides a lot more disruptive options to wear them down for another teammate, see: Lunala. Dragon Tail is also another excellent option, as it can continually phaze targets into Primal Groudon's Stealth Rock, particularly useful if a Mandibuzz wants to avoid burns to check something like Kartana or chipping down a Slowbro being annoying, making it easier for the likes of Terrakion to wallbreak.
TTar lure / generally superior breaking option over 2a Lunala, just without the stronger utility. Generally prefer this option right now as it gives Lunala the balance matchup it sometimes hungers, a great trade for a better offensive matchup against teams without solid Lunala prep (i.e, myself). Perks of Focus Blast are OHKOing Tyranitar, Darkrai and most Normal types that decide they want to come and play, and Psyshock still hits Blissey and helps the Calm Mind Arceus matchup. This is also a decent breaker even if the Z move has been used up, as its coverage still hurts its blanket checks fairly hard. Kinda sucks that Tailwind is missing from this set however - make sure you play this one right.
Quite an underrated pick on Zeraora due to its Electric immunity pre-mega. Helps with dealing with Manectite Magearna / defensive Primal Groudon a lot and can do solid work due to this common way of checking Zeraora. It is also able of dodging a post mega Diancite Terrakion due to Substitute, and in some ways this makes it the ideal option for a balanced matchup between offense and balance. Some would say Facade is the best option but I disagree, this makes Zeraora a nightmare to deal with if used properly.
Blissey @ Sablenite
Ability: Healer
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Psywave
- Toxic
- Healing Wish
Ability: Healer
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Psywave
- Toxic
- Healing Wish
Very useful on Bulky Offense and Balance teams. Effectively acts as a 'free mon' slot with added utilities that more offensive teams would appreciate, such as reviving worn down blanket checks and checking certain threatening wallbreakers, i.e Lunala.
It is also capable of doing excellent in the hazard game, staving off Stealth Rock from Primal Groudon and other setters that would require an Explosion to get through, solid for teams that would otherwise need an absorber for a strong utility mon such as Ho-oh. Other than that; not much to say about this mon.
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Lava Plume
- Smack Down / Dragon Tail
- Stealth Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Lava Plume
- Smack Down / Dragon Tail
- Stealth Rock
Nice utility option for Mandibuzz / Ho-oh weak teams as the free space on the third slot over Toxic gives Primal Groudon a few more options on what to check. Losing Overheat + Toxic as a combo to wear down Supportceus can be lame but as Mandibuzz and Slowbro get more popular as defensive Primal Groudon countermeasures, this set thrives on their presence and provides a lot more disruptive options to wear them down for another teammate, see: Lunala. Dragon Tail is also another excellent option, as it can continually phaze targets into Primal Groudon's Stealth Rock, particularly useful if a Mandibuzz wants to avoid burns to check something like Kartana or chipping down a Slowbro being annoying, making it easier for the likes of Terrakion to wallbreak.
Lunala @ Lunalium Z
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 244 SpA / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moongeist Beam
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast / Psyshock
- Calm Mind
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 244 SpA / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moongeist Beam
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast / Psyshock
- Calm Mind
TTar lure / generally superior breaking option over 2a Lunala, just without the stronger utility. Generally prefer this option right now as it gives Lunala the balance matchup it sometimes hungers, a great trade for a better offensive matchup against teams without solid Lunala prep (i.e, myself). Perks of Focus Blast are OHKOing Tyranitar, Darkrai and most Normal types that decide they want to come and play, and Psyshock still hits Blissey and helps the Calm Mind Arceus matchup. This is also a decent breaker even if the Z move has been used up, as its coverage still hurts its blanket checks fairly hard. Kinda sucks that Tailwind is missing from this set however - make sure you play this one right.
Zeraora @ Pinsirite
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Return
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Return
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
Quite an underrated pick on Zeraora due to its Electric immunity pre-mega. Helps with dealing with Manectite Magearna / defensive Primal Groudon a lot and can do solid work due to this common way of checking Zeraora. It is also able of dodging a post mega Diancite Terrakion due to Substitute, and in some ways this makes it the ideal option for a balanced matchup between offense and balance. Some would say Facade is the best option but I disagree, this makes Zeraora a nightmare to deal with if used properly.
Seasonal Usage
I have a lot to get through here even though i last posted about the metagame only two weeks ago. So I guess the first thing to start with is the usage stats from this most recent seasonal:
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Groudon | 148 | 57.36% | 52.70% |
| 2 | Magearna | 118 | 45.74% | 49.15% |
| - | Arceus-* | 116 | 44.96% | 50.00% |
| 3 | Zygarde | 113 | 43.80% | 50.44% |
| 4 | Kartana | 82 | 31.78% | 42.68% |
| 5 | Lunala | 62 | 24.03% | 64.52% |
| 6 | Mew | 61 | 23.64% | 49.18% |
| 7 | Terrakion | 48 | 18.60% | 62.50% |
| 8 | Mandibuzz | 45 | 17.44% | 51.11% |
| 9 | Entei | 44 | 17.05% | 45.45% |
| 10 | Arceus-Ground | 41 | 15.89% | 41.46% |
| 11 | Zeraora | 40 | 15.50% | 55.00% |
| 12 | Tapu Lele | 38 | 14.73% | 63.16% |
| 12 | Ho-Oh | 38 | 14.73% | 57.89% |
| 14 | Shuckle | 37 | 14.34% | 56.76% |
| 15 | Toxapex | 36 | 13.95% | 50.00% |
| 16 | Arceus-Fairy | 29 | 11.24% | 55.17% |
| 17 | Darkrai | 28 | 10.85% | 53.57% |
| 18 | Zapdos | 25 | 9.69% | 48.00% |
| 19 | Blissey | 21 | 8.14% | 61.90% |
| 19 | Buzzwole | 21 | 8.14% | 52.38% |
| 21 | Necrozma-Dusk-Mane | 17 | 6.59% | 70.59% |
| 21 | Kyogre | 17 | 6.59% | 41.18% |
| 21 | Xerneas | 17 | 6.59% | 41.18% |
| 24 | Xurkitree | 16 | 6.20% | 62.50% |
| 24 | Tyranitar | 16 | 6.20% | 37.50% |
| 26 | Ditto | 15 | 5.81% | 60.00% |
| 27 | Noivern | 14 | 5.43% | 35.71% |
| 28 | Slowbro | 13 | 5.04% | 84.62% |
| 28 | Genesect | 13 | 5.04% | 61.54% |
| 28 | Yveltal | 13 | 5.04% | 61.54% |
| 31 | Victini | 12 | 4.65% | 16.67% |
| 32 | Giratina-Origin | 11 | 4.26% | 72.73% |
| 32 | Excadrill | 11 | 4.26% | 63.64% |
| 32 | Arceus-Water | 11 | 4.26% | 54.55% |
| 32 | Hippowdon | 11 | 4.26% | 36.36% |
| 32 | Landorus | 11 | 4.26% | 36.36% |
| 37 | Skarmory | 10 | 3.88% | 50.00% |
| 38 | Weavile | 9 | 3.49% | 66.67% |
| 38 | Metagross | 9 | 3.49% | 55.56% |
| 38 | Gliscor | 9 | 3.49% | 11.11% |
| 41 | Arceus-Rock | 8 | 3.10% | 75.00% |
| 41 | Arceus | 8 | 3.10% | 62.50% |
| 41 | Manaphy | 8 | 3.10% | 50.00% |
| 41 | Mamoswine | 8 | 3.10% | 50.00% |
| 41 | Gyarados | 8 | 3.10% | 50.00% |
| 41 | Shaymin-Sky | 8 | 3.10% | 37.50% |
| 41 | Golisopod | 8 | 3.10% | 37.50% |
| 48 | Cobalion | 7 | 2.71% | 57.14% |
| 48 | Raikou | 7 | 2.71% | 42.86% |
| 48 | Tapu Koko | 7 | 2.71% | 14.29% |
| 51 | Salamence | 6 | 2.33% | 50.00% |
| 52 | Giratina | 5 | 1.94% | 60.00% |
| 52 | Arceus-Ghost | 5 | 1.94% | 40.00% |
| 52 | Arceus-Dragon | 5 | 1.94% | 40.00% |
| 55 | Mimikyu | 4 | 1.55% | 75.00% |
| 55 | Latias | 4 | 1.55% | 50.00% |
| 55 | Hoopa-Unbound | 4 | 1.55% | 25.00% |
| 55 | Azelf | 4 | 1.55% | 25.00% |
| 55 | Deoxys-Speed | 4 | 1.55% | 0.00% |
| 60 | Tangrowth | 3 | 1.16% | 33.33% |
| 60 | Tornadus-Therian | 3 | 1.16% | 33.33% |
| 60 | Volcarona | 3 | 1.16% | 33.33% |
| 60 | Zekrom | 3 | 1.16% | 33.33% |
| 60 | Meloetta | 3 | 1.16% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Garchomp | 2 | 0.78% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Celesteela | 2 | 0.78% | 50.00% |
| 65 | Kyurem-White | 2 | 0.78% | 50.00% |
| 65 | Kangaskhan | 2 | 0.78% | 50.00% |
| 65 | Jirachi | 2 | 0.78% | 50.00% |
| 65 | Deoxys-Attack | 2 | 0.78% | 50.00% |
| 65 | Kyurem | 2 | 0.78% | 50.00% |
| 65 | Heatran | 2 | 0.78% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Greninja | 2 | 0.78% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Marshadow | 2 | 0.78% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Blacephalon | 2 | 0.78% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Doublade | 2 | 0.78% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Ribombee | 2 | 0.78% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Barbaracle | 2 | 0.78% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Arceus-Flying | 2 | 0.78% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Bisharp | 2 | 0.78% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Ferrothorn | 2 | 0.78% | 0.00% |
| 65 | Silvally | 2 | 0.78% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Flygon | 1 | 0.39% | 100.00% |
| 83 | Umbreon | 1 | 0.39% | 100.00% |
| 83 | Dugtrio | 1 | 0.39% | 100.00% |
| 83 | Sharpedo | 1 | 0.39% | 100.00% |
| 83 | Snorlax | 1 | 0.39% | 100.00% |
| 83 | Moltres | 1 | 0.39% | 100.00% |
| 83 | Roserade | 1 | 0.39% | 100.00% |
| 83 | Froslass | 1 | 0.39% | 100.00% |
| 83 | Clefable | 1 | 0.39% | 100.00% |
| 83 | Muk-Alola | 1 | 0.39% | 100.00% |
| 83 | Omastar | 1 | 0.39% | 100.00% |
| 83 | Lurantis | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Starmie | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Blaziken | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Keldeo | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Stakataka | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Thundurus-Therian | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Landorus-Therian | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Diggersby | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Porygon-Z | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Cloyster | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Salazzle | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Breloom | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Tapu Bulu | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Thundurus | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Virizion | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Beedrill | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Celebi | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Togekiss | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Palossand | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Avalugg | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Staraptor | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Accelgor | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Archeops | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Latios | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Dunsparce | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Haxorus | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Scizor | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Arceus-Dark | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Milotic | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Rotom-Wash | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Rayquaza | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Tangela | 1 | 0.39% | 0.00% |I also decided to separate usage stats from r6 onwards to try and get a better picture of the meta in this tournament (round 6 was a very arbitrary choice for this but it does at least cut out the issue of mons in samples naturally getting more representation). These stats can be found below:
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Groudon | 49 | 58.33% | 53.06% |
| 2 | Magearna | 48 | 57.14% | 54.17% |
| - | Arceus-* | 45 | 53.57% | 53.33% |
| 3 | Zygarde | 34 | 40.48% | 32.35% |
| 4 | Lunala | 22 | 26.19% | 54.55% |
| 5 | Kartana | 21 | 25.00% | 28.57% |
| 6 | Mew | 20 | 23.81% | 50.00% |
| 7 | Terrakion | 19 | 22.62% | 63.16% |
| 8 | Mandibuzz | 18 | 21.43% | 44.44% |
| 9 | Zeraora | 16 | 19.05% | 50.00% |
| 10 | Tapu Lele | 15 | 17.86% | 66.67% |
| 10 | Arceus-Fairy | 15 | 17.86% | 53.33% |
| 12 | Shuckle | 14 | 16.67% | 42.86% |
| 13 | Ho-Oh | 13 | 15.48% | 46.15% |
| 14 | Xurkitree | 12 | 14.29% | 66.67% |
| 15 | Slowbro | 11 | 13.10% | 81.82% |
| 15 | Arceus-Ground | 11 | 13.10% | 45.45% |
| 17 | Blissey | 10 | 11.90% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Landorus | 10 | 11.90% | 40.00% |
| 19 | Ditto | 9 | 10.71% | 77.78% |
| 20 | Entei | 8 | 9.52% | 50.00% |
| 20 | Kyogre | 8 | 9.52% | 50.00% |
| 22 | Yveltal | 7 | 8.33% | 42.86% |
| 22 | Darkrai | 7 | 8.33% | 42.86% |
| 22 | Zapdos | 7 | 8.33% | 28.57% |
| 25 | Toxapex | 6 | 7.14% | 83.33% |
| 25 | Buzzwole | 6 | 7.14% | 66.67% |
| 25 | Tyranitar | 6 | 7.14% | 33.33% |
| 28 | Necrozma-Dusk-Mane | 5 | 5.95% | 80.00% |
| 28 | Xerneas | 5 | 5.95% | 40.00% |
| 28 | Arceus-Water | 5 | 5.95% | 20.00% |
| 31 | Arceus | 4 | 4.76% | 75.00% |
| 31 | Excadrill | 4 | 4.76% | 75.00% |
| 31 | Arceus-Rock | 4 | 4.76% | 75.00% |
| 31 | Noivern | 4 | 4.76% | 50.00% |
| 31 | Genesect | 4 | 4.76% | 25.00% |
| 36 | Hippowdon | 3 | 3.57% | 0.00% |
| 36 | Raikou | 3 | 3.57% | 0.00% |
| 38 | Giratina | 2 | 2.38% | 100.00% |
| 38 | Latias | 2 | 2.38% | 100.00% |
| 38 | Arceus-Ghost | 2 | 2.38% | 50.00% |
| 38 | Giratina-Origin | 2 | 2.38% | 50.00% |
| 38 | Volcarona | 2 | 2.38% | 50.00% |
| 38 | Gyarados | 2 | 2.38% | 50.00% |
| 38 | Victini | 2 | 2.38% | 0.00% |
| 38 | Metagross | 2 | 2.38% | 0.00% |
| 38 | Manaphy | 2 | 2.38% | 0.00% |
| 47 | Garchomp | 1 | 1.19% | 100.00% |
| 47 | Clefable | 1 | 1.19% | 100.00% |
| 47 | Arceus-Dragon | 1 | 1.19% | 100.00% |
| 47 | Mamoswine | 1 | 1.19% | 100.00% |
| 47 | Golisopod | 1 | 1.19% | 100.00% |
| 47 | Zekrom | 1 | 1.19% | 100.00% |
| 47 | Muk-Alola | 1 | 1.19% | 100.00% |
| 47 | Omastar | 1 | 1.19% | 100.00% |
| 47 | Weavile | 1 | 1.19% | 100.00% |
| 47 | Kyurem | 1 | 1.19% | 0.00% |
| 47 | Arceus-Dark | 1 | 1.19% | 0.00% |
| 47 | Bisharp | 1 | 1.19% | 0.00% |
| 47 | Milotic | 1 | 1.19% | 0.00% |
| 47 | Ferrothorn | 1 | 1.19% | 0.00% |
| 47 | Rotom-Wash | 1 | 1.19% | 0.00% |
| 47 | Rayquaza | 1 | 1.19% | 0.00% |
| 47 | Tangela | 1 | 1.19% | 0.00% |
| 47 | Deoxys-Speed | 1 | 1.19% | 0.00% |
| 47 | Gliscor | 1 | 1.19% | 0.00% |
| 47 | Silvally | 1 | 1.19% | 0.00% |
| 47 | Meloetta | 1 | 1.19% | 0.00% |Going off these stats, and comparing them to the stats from the last seasonal, I've made a few observations from the usage:
I've also decided to highlight a few outliers in the winrate section. Since winrates aren't amazingly reliable for various reasons, I've decided to stick to mons that are either a very long way from 50 percent winrate or are simply high usage mons that stand out:
I'll be dropping some teams later in the OM Bazaar, so keep an eye on that thread if you want to see the thought process behind the teams i've been using (or if you just want to steal them idrc).
E: Whoops forgot to mention Tini's terrible WR
E2: Bazaar post is up
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Why use Ice Beam when Blizzard also always hits thanks to No Guard ?
Pheromosa and Pidgeotite have been banned for a long time lol
Well, allow me to address this briefly:
Mix and Mega's stone restriction policy is totally unaffected by the official tiering system. You can see pokemon in PU, like Slaking and Regigigas, rightfully banned because of the power that legal stones would grant them. Conversely, several Ubers are allowed to hold a Stone because they are not deemed overpowered or overcentralising with one. It's the case for Darkrai, Shaymin Sky and Lando-I among others. The reasons for this are varied:
Either the mon has sufficiently low stats and/or a bad typing to deem it balanced with stones (i.e. Shaymin S);
Or the mon loses a benefit by Mega Evolving (like Aegislash, losing its ability).
Lando-I easily respects both the stat and the ability criteria, losing Sheer Force and failing to be overly powerful or centralising with any of the stones, in the current metagame.
Interestingly enough, its Therian counterpart was significantly better, by virtue of its better attack and the interaction of its ability pre-mega.
I hope this helped clearing things out! :)
Mix and Mega's stone restriction policy is totally unaffected by the official tiering system. You can see pokemon in PU, like Slaking and Regigigas, rightfully banned because of the power that legal stones would grant them. Conversely, several Ubers are allowed to hold a Stone because they are not deemed overpowered or overcentralising with one. It's the case for Darkrai, Shaymin Sky and Lando-I among others. The reasons for this are varied:
Either the mon has sufficiently low stats and/or a bad typing to deem it balanced with stones (i.e. Shaymin S);
Or the mon loses a benefit by Mega Evolving (like Aegislash, losing its ability).
Lando-I easily respects both the stat and the ability criteria, losing Sheer Force and failing to be overly powerful or centralising with any of the stones, in the current metagame.
Interestingly enough, its Therian counterpart was significantly better, by virtue of its better attack and the interaction of its ability pre-mega.
I hope this helped clearing things out! :)
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Its just okay, really. Yeah the Explosion set smarts sometimes, but its nowhere near as capable as Therian, and attempts at using a special set struggle against the basic special walls.