Project Metagame Workshop

TeaThymeLine said:
FALSE MIRROR​

Premise : types order in Pokémon' movesets is flipped.

Rules :

Reserved for 6v6 Singles. Players can choose which type goes with which move, depending on their place in the moveset. For example :

Dragapult movesetPhysical/SpecialType of each movesType with False Mirror
Dragon Darts​
U-turn​
Phantom Force​
Flamethrower​

Statut moves are also concerned :

Dragapult movesetPhysical/Special/StatutType of each movesType with False Mirror
Dragon Dance​
Body Slam​
Confuse Ray​
Quick Attack​

Endless Battle Clause
Evasion Clause
Freeze Clause : players can freeze only one Pokémon
Moveset Clause : the opponent's moves are directly shown to the screen, within moveslots order *
OHKO Clause
Sleep Clause : sleep moves are banned
Species Clause

Arena Trap
Sand Veil
Shadow Tag
Snow Veil
Shadow Tag
Clear Powder
King's Rock
Baton Pass
Rage Fist
Last Respects
Shed Tail
Arceus (all forms)
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Chi-Yu
Chien-Pao
Deoxys-Attack
Dialga (both forms)
Espathra
Eternatus
Flutter Mane
Giratina (both forms)
Groudon
Ho-oh
Iron Bundle
Koraidon
Kyogre
Kyurem-Black
Kyurem-White
Landorus
Lunala
Magearna
Mewtwo
Miraidon
Necrozma-Dawn Wings
Necrozma-Dusk Mane
Ogerpon-Hearthflame Mask
Palafin (both forms)
Palkia (both forms)
Rayquaza
Shaymin-Sky
Spectrier
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
Urshifu (both forms)
Volcarona
Zacian (both forms)
Zamazenta-Crowned
Zekrom

Contrary
Endeavor
Extreme Speed
Final Gambit
Shell Smash
U-Turn
Archaludon
Kyurem
Hoopa-Unbound
Iron-Boulder
Iron-Valiant
Roaring Moon
Regieleki
Zamazenta

Increased Viability :

Priority users are granted the possibility to make much damages while outspeeding commonly fast opponents. One would quote View attachment 653625Dragonite and View attachment 653626Lucario as they can make Extreme Speed their own STAB, but now View attachment 653627Haxorus stands out as well, thanks to First Impression : coupled with

Life Orb, plus a perfect coverage against Fairy-type and its pretty good Speed, this Pokémon is now more comfortable as a revenge killer, and can overtake dangerous setup sweeper like View attachment 653628Raging-Bolt or View attachment 653633Weavile.

Q1 : Are the types flipping if my Pokémon has less than 4 moves ?
A1 : No, your Pokémon must have 4 moves for it to happen.

Q2 : Can I swap Tera Blast/Tera Starstorm type with any other move ?
A2 : Before the Pokémon terastilize, the types are swapped ; after, Tera Blast/Tera Starstorm keeps its Tera-type while the other move is Normal-type.

Example :

Dragapult Tera-GhostPhysical/Special/StatutType of each moveswith FM (before tera.)with FM (after tera.)
Dragon Darts​
U-Turn​
Tera Blast​
Flamethrower​

In Terapagos's case :

Terapagos Tera-StellarPhysical/Special/StatutType of each moveswith FM (before tera.)with FM (after tera.)
Calm Mind​
Rapid Spin​
Stored Power​
Tera Starstorm​

Q3 : Do abilities like Steely Spirit or Pixilate work with new typed moves ?
A3 : Yes. Punk Rock or Liquid Voice still only affect sound-based moves, but one can flip types while managing to make these abilities work.

Q4 : Do Transform and Imposter copy type flips ?
A4 : Yes they do, along the entire movesets, boosts and abilities.

*Q5 : Why adding a Moveset Clause ?
A5 + N : Considering all possible movesets for one Pokémon, it would be hell to handle an opponent without knowing a countermeasure first. Note : Another solution would be to show the False Mirror type of each moveslot.

Questions for the community :

Should I add/remove more bans ? Can you think about Pokemon that would lose in viability ?

Council : none at the moment

Playability : on approval
Click to expand...
One thing people need to do when coming up with OM ideas is ask “what are the use cases for this mechanic?” You know, like giving Adaptability to an offensive Pokemon in AAA, or giving a Pokemon Daimond Storm in STABmons.
I say a problem here is the fact that the use cases are pretty weak. Like in the vast majority of cases and in your example, you ultimately end up with nothing really accomplished. Yeah, you have Fire type Dragon Darts, but who really cares? You had to have Flamethrower on your moveset, which is now a slightly better Dragon Pulse and you ultimately have a worse moveset as half the moves are crap now.
Status moves seem like the only saving grace, but how many times will you see a Pokemon finding this mechanic useful?
 
Cuddly said:
One thing people need to do when coming up with OM ideas is ask “what are the use cases for this mechanic?” You know, like giving Adaptability to an offensive Pokemon in AAA, or giving a Pokemon Daimond Storm in STABmons.
I say a problem here is the fact that the use cases are pretty weak. Like in the vast majority of cases and in your example, you ultimately end up with nothing really accomplished. Yeah, you have Fire type Dragon Darts, but who really cares? You had to have Flamethrower on your moveset, which is now a slightly better Dragon Pulse and you ultimately have a worse moveset as half the moves are crap now.
Status moves seem like the only saving grace, but how many times will you see a Pokemon finding this mechanic useful?
Click to expand...
You don't have to take the examples as good or bad, these were essentially to understand the rules. I didn't add moveset analyzes because I didn't go deep into research enough to deliver something so technical. On the other hand, one can feel that the added value of this OM is pretty weak, or that the usefulness of the mechanic itself is poor : I'd gladly make viable sets to prove otherwise, yet at the moment they'd be subjective :blobshrug: .
 
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TeaThymeLine said:
You don't have to take the examples as good or bad, these were essentially to understand the rules. I didn't add moveset analyzes because I didn't go deep into research enough to deliver something so technical. On the other hand, one can feel that the added value of this OM is pretty weak, or that the usefulness of the mechanic itself is poor : I'd gladly make viable sets to prove otherwise, yet at the moment they'd be subjective :blobshrug: .
Click to expand...
I’m thinking in general. Like what exactly would you use this new mechanic for? I know the example is there to show off the OM, but I can’t really think of anything exciting or that game changing, like with AAA or STABmons. Like guess you can have Rapid/Mortal Spin on types that can hit Gholdengo, or make Knock Off STAB via status moves. It needs something more imo.
 
Metagame: Switch or Stay in

On odd turns, Player 1 chooses a number x from 0 to 100. This is the chance they stay in. The remaining chance is the chance they switch. A number is randomly generated to determine if they switch or stay in. They must switch or stay in based on this. Player 2 sees the number Player 1 chooses but does not know the outcome of whether he will switch or stay in. The next turn, they alternate roles.
 
Alright, gentlemen. Hear me out.

:psysly: SIMPLEMONS :psysly:​

In Simplemons, every stat multiplier in the game is doubled. Now, you may be asking, "bUt MaYo, YoU cAn'T gIvE eVeRy PoKéMoN the SaMe AbIlItY!!!!1!1!11!!"

Here's the thing. It doesn't only apply to moves. It applies to everything.

For example:

  • 2x Choice items (Band and such)
  • 1.2x Wide Lens
  • 1.6x Life Orb
  • and most nightmarish of all...
  • 3X HUGE/PURE POWER


Of course, there will be some restricted boosts (I plan on immediately banning the Powers). When an Ability is restricted, it's not multiplied. Very simple (pun not intended).

So yeah. EMBRACE THE CHAOS.
 
"At Odds"

Works like OU, but everything happens at odds.
Critical hits happen once every 24 attacks.
To calculate misses, a budget of "100% accuracy" is given at the start of the gam
After each move, it subtracts the budget by the miss chance of that move, so if you hit Stone Edge 3 times, your budget becomes 40%, then if you attempt Dynamic Punch, you will fail, then the budget resets to 100%
The inverse applies for secondary effects, you start with a budget if "0%", then it increases by the chance of the effect happening, so if you use Sludge Bomb 3 times, your budget becomes 90% and then use Psychic, your budget reaches 100% and a Sp. Def drop is guaranteed
All moves roll exactly 93% of their expected damage.
Bans:
Literally just the OU bans, the most problematic moves fall under the clauses (sleep moves and ohko moves)
 
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mayonnaise. mayo. said:
Alright, gentlemen. Hear me out.

:psysly: SIMPLEMONS :psysly:​

In Simplemons, every stat multiplier in the game is doubled. Now, you may be asking, "bUt MaYo, YoU cAn'T gIvE eVeRy PoKéMoN the SaMe AbIlItY!!!!1!1!11!!"

Here's the thing. It doesn't only apply to moves. It applies to everything.

For example:

  • 2x Choice items (Band and such)
  • 1.2x Wide Lens
  • 1.6x Life Orb
  • and most nightmarish of all...
  • 3X HUGE/PURE POWER


Of course, there will be some restricted boosts (I plan on immediately banning the Powers). When an Ability is restricted, it's not multiplied. Very simple (pun not intended).

So yeah. EMBRACE THE CHAOS.
Click to expand...
Are stat stage boosts (and drops) also doubled? If so, how does Swords Dance behave? Will a Swords Dance give you +4 Attack stages instead of +2? Or is the +2 Attack stage boost changed to 3x from 2x?
 
supasiblingz said:
"At Odds"

Works like OU, but everything happens at odds.
Critical hits happen once every 24 attacks.
To calculate misses, a budget of "100% accuracy" is given at the start of the gam
After each move, it subtracts the budget by the miss chance of that move, so if you hit Stone Edge 3 times, your budget becomes 40%, then if you attempt Dynamic Punch, you will fail, then the budget resets to 100%
The inverse applies for secondary effects, you start with a budget if "0%", then it increases by the chance of the effect happening, so if you use Sludge Bomb 3 times, your budget becomes 90% and then use Psychic, your budget reaches 100% and a Sp. Def drop is guaranteed

Bans:
Literally just the OU bans, the most problematic moves fall under the clauses (sleep moves and ohko moves)
Click to expand...

Do you want to do overflow, like if it drops below 0% with misses, or just hard reset to 100%?
 
okie gangys, I got a stupid extension idea for simplemons that'll probably get it rejected


we let stat boosts from moves go up to +12 :)


don't think it's a good idea, just an idea
 
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Xufactor said:
Do you want to do overflow, like if it drops below 0% with misses, or just hard reset to 100%?
Click to expand...
I think this is actually pretty twosided. On one hand overflowing will make people put extremely low accuracy moves, say, Dynamic Punch on their teams to overflow and get the most hits, but on the other hand, hard resetting to 100 wouldn't really be "at odds" per se.
I would prefer hard resetting to 100, but this can be changed if needed, but the secondary effects should overflow imo since that isn't as much of a problem except in some small cases
 
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supasiblingz said:
I think this is actually pretty twosided. On one hand overflowing will make people put extremely low accuracy moves, say, Dynamic Punch on their teams to overflow and get the most hits, but on the other hand, hard resetting to 100 wouldn't really be "at odds" per se.
I would prefer hard resetting to 100, but this can be changed if needed, but the secondary effects should overflow imo since that isn't as much of a problem except in some small cases
Click to expand...

Overflow would be bad for missing because 40% becomes 90% after Dynamic Punch.

supasiblingz said:
Skillmons is a bit different, skillmons removes the odds entirely, by changing bp, whereas this makes everything at odds. Some stuff is similar though, such as the secomdary effects thing
Click to expand...

The poster for Skillmons revamped it to be like this in the last page of his thread.
 
Raw Strength
Premise: Can't use Items (focus sash) or Abilities (Insomnia) that don't boost move dmg, and Only Moves that do dmg no matter what requirements or/and variability of dmg (ex Boomburst, Burn Up, and Seismic Toss) but can use any ability (Huge Power Blissey) and can have any of these things from past gens outside of Gen 9 onwards, which would provide an enticing gameplay for players looking for a challenge
Potential Bans: FEAR strat, Hacking, Pokemon that can only learn side effect moves (ex, Smeargle (with or without sketched moves))
Example:
Tera: Normal
egg (Blissey) (F) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Mild Nature
- Boomburst
- Seismic Toss
- Body Press
- Population Bomb
 
xwdfgcsdvft5 said:
Raw Strength
Premise: Can't use Items (focus sash) or Abilities (Insomnia) that don't boost move dmg, and Only Moves that do dmg no matter what requirements or/and variability of dmg (ex Boomburst, Burn Up, and Seismic Toss) but can use any ability (Huge Power Blissey) and can have any of these things from past gens outside of Gen 9 onwards, which would provide an enticing gameplay for players looking for a challenge
Potential Bans: FEAR strat, Hacking, Pokemon that can only learn side effect moves (ex, Smeargle (with or without sketched moves))
Example:
Tera: Normal
egg (Blissey) (F) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Mild Nature
- Boomburst
- Seismic Toss
- Body Press
- Population Bomb
Click to expand...
In other words, Pure Hackmons without items and abilities that don't increase stats/moves base power.

EDIT : I misread it so I came first with "without statut moves that don't increase stat/moves base power", pay it no mind :)
 
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Xufactor said:
Overflow would be bad for missing because 40% becomes 90% after Dynamic Punch.
Click to expand...
I thought you meant overflowing above, so 40% on Dynamic Punch turns to 110%. If you meant overflow below, then we should definitely reset to 100%.
Xufactor said:
The poster for Skillmons revamped it to be like this in the last page of his thread.
Click to expand...
Ah I see, so it is like Skillmons. I mean Skillmons is dead anyway so...
 
supasiblingz said:
I thought you meant overflowing above, so 40% on Dynamic Punch turns to 110%. If you meant overflow below, then we should definitely reset to 100%.
Click to expand...

The worth of moves that can miss is 100% initially and decreases to their hit chance as you use more of them. For example, using hydro pump 1-9 (but not 5) times makes it worth more than a 80% accurate move. We should have overflow to nerf them.
 
mayonnaise. mayo. said:
Alright, gentlemen. Hear me out.

:psysly: SIMPLEMONS :psysly:​

In Simplemons, every stat multiplier in the game is doubled. Now, you may be asking, "bUt MaYo, YoU cAn'T gIvE eVeRy PoKéMoN the SaMe AbIlItY!!!!1!1!11!!"

Here's the thing. It doesn't only apply to moves. It applies to everything.

For example:

  • 2x Choice items (Band and such)
  • 1.2x Wide Lens
  • 1.6x Life Orb
  • and most nightmarish of all...
  • 3X HUGE/PURE POWER


Of course, there will be some restricted boosts (I plan on immediately banning the Powers). When an Ability is restricted, it's not multiplied. Very simple (pun not intended).

So yeah. EMBRACE THE CHAOS.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this may be too much chaos, stuff would get out of control too easily and games would snowball too early, how do you balance this?
supasiblingz said:
"At Odds"

Works like OU, but everything happens at odds.
Critical hits happen once every 24 attacks.
To calculate misses, a budget of "100% accuracy" is given at the start of the gam
After each move, it subtracts the budget by the miss chance of that move, so if you hit Stone Edge 3 times, your budget becomes 40%, then if you attempt Dynamic Punch, you will fail, then the budget resets to 100%
The inverse applies for secondary effects, you start with a budget if "0%", then it increases by the chance of the effect happening, so if you use Sludge Bomb 3 times, your budget becomes 90% and then use Psychic, your budget reaches 100% and a Sp. Def drop is guaranteed
All moves roll exactly 93% of their expected damage.
Bans:
Literally just the OU bans, the most problematic moves fall under the clauses (sleep moves and ohko moves)
Click to expand...
This isnt reasonable for ladder people to understand, the premise is too long and complex.
Xufactor said:
Metagame: Switch or Stay in

On odd turns, Player 1 chooses a number x from 0 to 100. This is the chance they stay in. The remaining chance is the chance they switch. A number is randomly generated to determine if they switch or stay in. They must switch or stay in based on this. Player 2 sees the number Player 1 chooses but does not know the outcome of whether he will switch or stay in. The next turn, they alternate roles.
Click to expand...
Im not sure what I'm reading here, but sounds kinda lame, just control how switching works?
xwdfgcsdvft5 said:
Raw Strength
Premise: Can't use Items (focus sash) or Abilities (Insomnia) that don't boost move dmg, and Only Moves that do dmg no matter what requirements or/and variability of dmg (ex Boomburst, Burn Up, and Seismic Toss) but can use any ability (Huge Power Blissey) and can have any of these things from past gens outside of Gen 9 onwards, which would provide an enticing gameplay for players looking for a challenge
Potential Bans: FEAR strat, Hacking, Pokemon that can only learn side effect moves (ex, Smeargle (with or without sketched moves))
Example:
Tera: Normal
egg (Blissey) (F) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Mild Nature
- Boomburst
- Seismic Toss
- Body Press
- Population Bomb
Click to expand...
This it is, indeed, Hackmons with some restrictions. Like, you just want to make sure everyone plays offense while removing half of the strategic value from those teams.
 
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