Lemonade Controversy

[skies]

With the release of Beyoncé's new album, LEMONADE, comes a lot of backlash.​

"The new Beyonce wants to be seen as a black woman political activist first and foremost, entertainer and musician second. ... But I have to be honest, I preferred the old Beyonce. The less inflammatory, agitating one. The one who didn't use grieving mothers to shift records and further fill her already massively enriched purse. The one who didn't play the race card so deliberately and to my mind, unnecessarily." – Piers Morgan

Amongst this, there's controversy surrounding Beyoncé's use of 'Becky', which is apparently being coined to be a racist term. There's even more drama with white singers covering Lemonade, which is claimed to be offensive. Beyoncé herself is even getting backlash for writing about her issues with marriage, insisting she should've "kept it between her and Jay-Z." Finally, Rachel Ray has been forced to cancel a show due to being harassed; even though the real Rachel in question is Rachel Roy.

Perhaps the biggest controversy of them all is that Beyoncé's Lemonade video is very pro-black; featuring a very slim number of white people.

Personally, I believe the controversy is absurd. Becky is not a racial slur, Beyoncé can write whatever she wants, and white singers should be careful when covering the songs. Beyoncé's pro-blackness is inspiring across so many platforms and is definitely not anti-white. She is raising others up without bringing anyone else down. Only positivity.

What do you guys think about this supposed controversy?

Please note, I am not black, therefore my opinion honestly holds zero weight. This is also coming from someone who isn't really a Beyoncé fan (Lemonade bumps though!).

 

[Albert.]

I could literally write an essay on this topic, but I won't for the sake of those reading.
I would also like to just state that before reviewing this album, one must listen to it at least three or four times, because it is a very difficult piece to understand and its content takes a while to solidify. Studying the lyrics also helps to understand the piece as well.

Let me first disclose that I tend to appreciate music as genre-less and audience-less. I don't sway toward a certain genre, or any music directed toward a certain race.
Let me also say that this will only contain my thoughts about THE MUSIC, NOT THE VISUAL PART OF THE ALBUM.


I also think that regardless of race, you are allowed to have an opinion on this album's content (and I will get into that later in the post).

As a whole, I think that the new Beyonce album is a piece that takes time in order to understand its true nature. Upon first listen, listeners may get various opinions. These are the couple that I grasped from listening to this album once:

1. this album is a representation of betrayal, hurt/depression, and sacrifice.
   
2. this album is directed as an empowermental piece toward african american people
3. this album is directed as an empowermental piece toward women / a feminist audience

While this album is all three of these things, it is also significantly more than that.

In my opinion, I believe that Beyonce predicted this album to have no target audience. In other words, anyone that listens to this album completely can relate to it (or at least one song), and absorb it as such. I believe that she wrote these songs with the intention that it at least one of them could reach everyone that listens. This is why it is very important that anyone that listens to this album listens to it front to back before judging it, because there are ever-changing themes throughout the whole project (while they mostly circle around one of the three stated above).

A good 90% of the songs on the tracklist focus on the (fact or fiction) theme of being unfaithful during a serious relationship (i.e Pray You Catch Me, Sandcastles, Don't Hurt Yourself), and that's okay. Beyonce is typically known for writing emotional music; whether that be heartfelt pop-ballads, or songs about breakups, drama, and heartbreak. This is typical for a mainstream pop/R&B artist. Usually, artists of these genres usually attempt to appeal to as many listeners as they can, thus producing lyrics to songs that appeal to various emotions. However, on this album, Beyonce takes a more aggressive tone in her music. A lot of the lyrics in these songs are aggressive to a significant other in a way that is different than any of her other songs prior to this album. This leads me to believe that the main focus of this album is expressing general disatisfaction with a relationship, and most of it is supposed to be irrelevant toward a specific gender or race. Whether that means (realistic or unrealistic) cheating or not, the aggressive lyrics certainly stand out as the main theme of this album. Here are some examples:

“How did it come down to this? Going through your call list/ I don’t wanna lose my pride, but I’ma fuck me up a bitch.” - Hold Up
“Just give my fat ass a big kiss, boy/ Tonight I’m fucking up all your shit, boy.” - Don't Hurt Yourself
“So many people that I know, they’re just tryna touch ya … kiss up and rub up and feel up on you/ Give you some time to prove that I can trust ya” - All Night

As for the other two themes that I mentioned, they play roles as well, just not as significant as the first.

The next part of this might be different depending on the audience listening. This is what I find so special about the album, though. As a white male listening to Lemonade, I believe that the main theme of this album is betrayal, hurt/depression, and sacrifice in order to further better yourself. However, people of other races/genders might think otherwise. This is why I believe that Beyonce put this album out as a collection of songs that could appeal/relate to anyone. Again these are my thoughts about THE MUSIC, NOT THE VISUAL PART OF THE ALBUM.

There are lyrics on this album that relate to the empowerment of black people and women respectively. This record is written from a female perspective, so a lot of the lyrics can appeal to female listeners. This album is built on the ideas of men cheating and being unfaithful, which a lot of women can relate to. In my opinion, Beyonce has always appeared to have a feminist mindset, so this theme didn't really surprise me (i.e Run The World Girls, Pretty Hurts, Countdown). She has expressed her femininity before, so it was pretty expected on this album.

The topic of empowerment toward african american people can be seen on a couple songs on this album, but in my opinion, isn't as prominent as other themes that i've listed. In particular, the songs Formation and Freedom definitely appeal to racial prejudice issues that we unfortunately see the United States facing as of late. Maybe there are underlying suggestions of this theme throughout the album, but in my opinion, it's the least focused on out of the three. While I think that certain parts of this record symbolize african american empowerment, I don't believe that this is the sole purpose of the project. Beyonce is a defniite advocate toward the rights and equalization of african american people, but I believe that she suppressed this in order to make the album appeal to more people. While she does showcase this in certain lyrics and songs on the album, I believe that if the album was fully about african american empowerment, it would not stay true to what Beyonce's fans know her for: producing pop/R&B music that can appeal to all kinds of different people.

In conclusion, it is a great album, and I think that it is easier to understand with more than one listen; however, I don't think Lemonade (THE ALBUM ITSELF) is directed toward a specific race. I believe that regardless of race or gender, Beyonce expected listeners to be able to relate to the music that she put out in this project, and that's why it is so successful. While it obvious that controversy surrounding this album includes aspects of female and black empowerment, I believe that the main focus is empowering yourself after a toxic relationship. While I can't speak for the Visual portion of the album because in all honesty, I haven't payed much attention to it, I feel as if the audio portion of the album was meant to be enjoyed by everyone. In most cases, it can be seen that there is no target audience for this project.

I fully understand if anyone is to disagree with the opinions that i've stated above. I just want to say that this is what I think, and is in no way, shape, or form confirmed fact.

 

[Cresselia~~]

A lot of girls in the UK are called Becky. But that said, the word Becky may still have some history related to racism.
I think it depends on what it is and why they'd feel offended.

As for featuring a very slim amount of white people...
Well, I personally wouldn't mind about that.
Statistically, in the US, it is indeed more difficult for a black person to find a job even with the same qualifications.
Statistically, in the US, even when job application E-mails seem to be color-blind, people with whiter names like Emily are more likely to be replied in for an interview than a person with blacker names like Latifah.

In other words, in the USA, blacks are still disadvantaged when it comes to job applications.
So if Beyonce's video hired lots of black people and very few white people, I think it can be seen as more like affirmative action, rather than racism against whites.
It's not like they reject whites or anything anyway.

 

[Stratos]

i heard that there were like 80 different collaborators on this album, which must be beyoncé trying to show solidarity with her black brothers in Brazil

 

[Outlaw]

and white singers should be careful when covering the songs.

Jesus christ.

 

[skies]

Jesus christ.

i meant not saying the n word ?__?

 

[Outlaw]

i meant not saying the n word ?__?

It still sounds pretty bad man.

Unpopular (yet correct) opinion: Maybe don't put that word in your song (Or say it at all really, if it's so bad) if you have issues with people of a certain skin tone repeating it when they sing your song.

 

[Dylannn]

The only person who's complaining that Becky is a racial slur is Iggy Azalea, and I feel as if that should have discredited itself before it stirred controversy.

 

[JES]

I think it's always refreshing (no pun intended) when a music artist uses their fame to get a political message across. I don't think the intention was to use the racism that is an evil shadow over our country as a way to further line her pockets. It just wouldn't be worth the controversy that you see now.

I think the idea that the album is intentionally anti-white is bullshit. I'm always get annoyed with white supremacists who make claims of racism against whites, or use the term "white genocide", as if the privileged Caucasian American population is in any danger!

Personally, I think the term "everyone's a critic" applies here. Haters will hate, and whiners will whine. I wish more music artists would use their fame and talent to add their weight to politics, and give support to activist movements.

 

[Mr.E]

I'm not sure why I even clicked on this thread but

as if the privileged Caucasian American population is in any danger!

as if being white automatically "privileges" people in this day and age of the U.S.

Can't even fucking get a real job five years after graduating with a fucking science degree (it's not like it's fucking music theory or art history). Please, inform me of how fucking privileged I am because I'm white, or male for that matter. Seems like I'm still waiting for mine to kick in.

"Privilege" in modern Western society is all about how many digits you have in your bank account. Beyoncé is a hell of a lot more privileged than I am.

 

[Soul Fly]

^i'm sorry you don't have a job, but that's not how systemic privilege works.

 

[Cresselia~~]

I'm not sure why I even clicked on this thread but

as if being white automatically "privileges" people in this day and age of the U.S.

Can't even fucking get a real job five years after graduating with a fucking science degree (it's not like it's fucking music theory or art history). Please, inform me of how fucking privileged I am because I'm white, or male for that matter. Seems like I'm still waiting for mine to kick in.

"Privilege" in modern Western society is all about how many digits you have in your bank account. Beyoncé is a hell of a lot more privileged than I am.

Ummm... hasty generalization fallacy?

 

[JES]

I'm not sure why I even clicked on this thread but

as if being white automatically "privileges" people in this day and age of the U.S.

Can't even fucking get a real job five years after graduating with a fucking science degree (it's not like it's fucking music theory or art history). Please, inform me of how fucking privileged I am because I'm white, or male for that matter. Seems like I'm still waiting for mine to kick in.

"Privilege" in modern Western society is all about how many digits you have in your bank account. Beyoncé is a hell of a lot more privileged than I am.

To be fair, I know the feeling. It took me about 8 months just to get an entry level job. I'm going to my first job orientation today. Not having a driver's liscense, and being that I only started looking for a job after 2 two years after graduating from community college after getting nowhere with my former plans probably didn't help. But what I'm saying is, African Americans and some minorities have it even harder, being passed over in favor of Caucasians.

You should also see the experiment where one Caucasian and one African American walked the street with an assault rifle, and see the difference. I could go on. African Americans are clearly treated differently.

 

[Skitty]

can we not turn this thread into an argument about white privilege please


Anyway, I just got a TIDAL free trial now just to listen to this album. I like it so far, but I'm only a few songs in. Where is everybody else listening to this from?

 

[Always!]

http://www.theblaze.com/contributio...er&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=ShareButtons

I think I agree with the author above, at least on female "empowerment" issues.

This article was written with a specific religious bias, but regardless I still agree with the general message of this on the album as a whole despite not sharing the same religious views as the author.

Please note, I am not black, therefore my opinion honestly holds zero weight.

I'd like to understand what this means ?_?

and

and white singers should be careful when covering the songs.

seems absolutely absurd.

 

[Shrug]

did we really need a serious tag thread to determine a) beyonce is mostly correct in her criticisms of white advantage and male advantage and is doing a cool thing in making (very good!) records that work towards her points (which are parts of her everyday / overall experience) and b) any cover is going to lack or change the meaning of the original performance; this becomes more true the more personal the record or specific the experience the record is derived from - it would be strange if a black raper covered a song from Eminem's Marshall Mathers LP, not only bc of the jarring surface misogyny but also because a lot of that record is about being white in a black idiom, and that would seem inauthentic (because the perspective is specific) for a black rapper to be talking about. This is gonna hold true for this record as well. And obviously white people shouldnt say the n-word this has been accepted for quite a while

 

[vonFiedler]

We haven't really needed the serious tag ever since cong became its own thing again.

 

[tehy]

from seeing a magazine in the supermarket i have deduced that beyonce 'saved her marriage', plus the album was only stream-available on tidal which apparently got a user to sign up for a tidal free trial, which really says about all it needs to say - the extreme rhetoric here is meant to make a splash and make money, but beyonce isn't empowered or feminist enough to get rid of a cheating husband or anything. she's not even feminist enough not to promote his business while she's at it. which goes to show that the controversy is manufactured to boost sales, because no way in hell do I get back with my husband right away after making an album blasting him to shreds and releasing it for all the world to hear.

 

[Mr.E]

^i'm sorry you don't have a job, but that's not how systemic privilege works.

To be fair, I know the feeling. It took me about 8 months just to get an entry level job. I'm going to my first job orientation today. Not having a driver's liscense, and being that I only started looking for a job after 2 two years after graduating from community college after getting nowhere with my former plans probably didn't help. But what I'm saying is, African Americans and some minorities have it even harder, being passed over in favor of Caucasians.

Just sayin' that getting pulled over by a police officer once partially because being black somehow makes you look suspicious ain't shit compared to being literally lawfully discriminated against, i.e. affirmative action, because being white (and male) automatically just opens every fucking door of opportunity for me and I shoudln't need any help, right? (And let's not talk about how short I am either.) A little social unease around some behind-the-times racists and nebulous, unquantifiable disadvantages is nothing compared to the actual, concrete competitive advantages given to minorities in schools and workplaces these days.

I mean, I'm totally bummed out I didn't get to be in Beyoncé's Lemonade video because I'm white.

 

[JALMONT]

I'm not a fan of Beyonce's style of music, so I can't claim to have listened to the album, but if I what I have read is true, then I'm glad that Beyonce is releasing music with some substance to it. That being said, the people who are "upset" about it (if they are truly upset I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the "outrage" is manufactured for the sake of clicks but yeah) need to get over themselves. I think music is an awesome medium for artists to be able to express themselves, and if Beyonce wants to use her music to talk about her experiences, then more power to her. That sort of music is way more impactful and interesting then your typical pop music so no complaints from me.

RE: should white people be allowed to cover the music? I mean yeah, why not??? Covering for the most part to my understanding isn't about taking away meaning from the song but usually for lesser artists/musicians to have a chance to take songs that have already been written/recorded and sing them to showcase their own ability without having to go the trouble of writing their own song. I wouldn't think that's rude at all, and if I were Beyonce/famous band, I think it would be pretty flattering. Of course, maybe if Beyonce has specifically expressed something to the effect of "no white people should cover my song," then we would have another discussion about that, but since to my knowledge that hasn't been expressed, I see no real harm in allowing non-black artists cover Beyonce's music (especially if her music speaks to them!!) In any case, where do we draw the line of who would be allowed to cover a song before it becomes too "inauthentic"? Is it ok for a half-black person to do so? What about a black person who has lived all their life in Africa? I genuinely don't know the answer to this question.

The "inauthentic" argument also doesn't make sense to me. Are people who cover songs really looking to twist the meanings of the music? Realistically, that's usually never the intent (I personally cannot think of an instance where that is the case). Do artists who do cover music inadvertently take away from songs if they come from a different perspective? I would argue "No" to that, but I think that's a different discussion altogether. Perhaps a better question to think about is whether or not the meaning of Beyonce's music is strictly related to black people. And then that question itself opens up a whole other can of worms on an artist's intent vs. audience interpretation and which is "right."

[also if i'm not black am i also not allowed to have an opinion on this topic? if so, what's the point of even having this discussion if everyone is excluded from participating??? i was also confused as to what OP meant by that]

Maybe if instead of worrying about who should be allowed to cover Beyonce's songs, we worried about actual social injustice we would be able to move forward as a society but I digress. I guess we can do both?!

 

[vonFiedler]

Just sayin' that getting pulled over by a police officer once partially because being black somehow makes you look suspicious ain't shit compared to being literally lawfully discriminated against, i.e. affirmative action, because being white (and male) automatically just opens every fucking door of opportunity for me and I shoudln't need any help, right? (And let's not talk about how short I am either.) A little social unease around some behind-the-times racists and nebulous, unquantifiable disadvantages is nothing compared to the actual, concrete competitive advantages given to minorities in schools and workplaces these days.

I mean, I'm totally bummed out I didn't get to be in Beyoncé's Lemonade video because I'm white.

"being pulled over 'once'" is not the height of discrimination that minorities face, it's not even the median. On the other hand, no white men are turned out of colleges "because they are white". That's twisting the situation ludicrously. Were you turned out of a college because of affirmative action? Cause, ya ended up in one it seems. People tend to have either multiple chances at going to college or none. Affirmative action negatively affects no one to a significant degree but can do a great deal of good, because it gives a population that is relatively twice as much in poverty, and thus twice as likely to have no chance to go to college, access to intelligence, money, and access to the same things for their descendants, along with class. I'm sure you would be more than willing to admit that those three things are types of privilege.


I'm not sure there was ever a hope for this thread being some in-depth examination of Beyonce's music, so if anyone was holding back on talking about the racial messages in the songs I guess have at it. Don't make me regret this.

 

[Cresselia~~]

So, judging from the amount of likes, it seems that unfixable's views on racism (such as black people can say the N word but not the others)
is actually not mainstream in the USA?

For a long time, I thought that his views were mainstream.

 

[dice]

Just sayin' that getting pulled over by a police officer once partially because being black somehow makes you look suspicious ain't shit compared to being literally lawfully discriminated against, i.e. affirmative action, because being white (and male) automatically just opens every fucking door of opportunity for me and I shoudln't need any help, right? (And let's not talk about how short I am either.) A little social unease around some behind-the-times racists and nebulous, unquantifiable disadvantages is nothing compared to the actual, concrete competitive advantages given to minorities in schools and workplaces these days.

I mean, I'm totally bummed out I didn't get to be in Beyoncé's Lemonade video because I'm white.

this is super off topic but i just have to respond: lifting a few heads above water is hardly drowning others in the pool.

true meritocracies can exist in truly equal societies. you've said it yourself: you won the lottery. you are white, you are male, and you can masquerade as a christian. what can you bitch about? it's very dismissive to ignore the implications of racism in society. to suggest that we live in a colorblind world is laughable. to disregard the effects that this systematic abuse has on populations of people who are forced to endure the ubiquitous racism in our culture is just mind-blowing. i don't think i really have to prove that racism is still alive and kickin. if you want an example of minorities being targeted out of a primal fear of the unknown, you can just take a look at the gop presidential nominee.

it's worth expanding upon this though. often, the notion of "racism" is seen as an abstract concept. as a white male, it's nearly impossible to truly empathize with what black folk have to deal with constantly. to align with this thread, you don't have to 'deal with' an offensive appropriation of your culture by people who lack the experience and understanding of your language, belief systems, and music to absorb it fully. you don't have to deal with the side-eyeing and questioning of success. you also don't have to deal with the assumptions of inferiority.. the lost opportunities made throughout life just from being black.

surprisingly enough, the damage takes a toll on students' performance as well.

stereotype threats can play a major role in our educational systems and otherwise. essentially, students often may underperform if they are subjected to a stereotype affecting them. a very accredited study in 1995 states "Whenever African American students perform an explicitly scholastic or intellectual task, they face the threat of confirming or being judged by negative societal stereotypes about their group’s intellectual ability and competence… and the self-threat it causes - through a variety of mechanisms - may interfere with the intellectual functioning of these students, particularly during standardized tests." if you're interested at reading the results and the minor triggers which caused such drastic shifts in the scores, i linked the article. there is also an interesting tidbit on the use of word recognition in stanford students, and those given a slightly different prompt were far more prone to addressing and answering racist terms.

empirically speaking, racism isn't just a foreign concept.

A little social unease around some behind-the-times racists and nebulous, unquantifiable disadvantages is nothing compared to the actual, concrete competitive advantages given to minorities in schools and workplaces these days.

this is a very inflammatory statement imo. quite honestly, it suggests that there is a rampant case of reverse racism. racism is a result of power and privilege, neither of which black people truly have. just because one university or one job rejects you, it doesn't mean that it was necessarily due to affirmative action or that you were even more qualified. white people already are gifted affirmative action, this legislation is just evening the deal. predominately white interviewers are more prone to hiring predominately white people. additionally, the use of affirmative action conditions others to be in a diverse environment which in turn can also eliminate the need for affirmative action in the future. discrimination will never cease to be an issue, and this helps eliminate an intrinsic bias in our society and level the playing field. affirmative action is but a very considerate tool used to create a considerate environment.

let's not go there.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

That aside, I feel like this whole argument surrounding affirmative action proves that you can't beat discrimination with discrimination (see: two wrongs don't make a right). Affirmative action by its very nature cannot create a meritocracy, and I was under the impression that was the gold standard we were supposed to be striving for. If we don't have a meritocracy (hint: we don't) then maybe we need to set up a system that allows one to exist rather than attempting to right a wrong with a wrong. For example, cross out names on resumes, provide interview transcripts (again, names and any gendered pronouns omitted, basically anything that can trigger biases, conscious or not) to employers, and put in place some way of making anti-discrimination laws that already exist enforceable. The problem is that discrimination very often stems from subconscious biases, and apparently efforts to eliminate these haven't worked, so maybe if we shift our focus to bypassing them, we can create a system where a true meritocracy can exist (as well as possibly setting up an environment that challenges people's preconceived notions).

 

[vonFiedler]

That aside, I feel like this whole argument surrounding affirmative action proves that you can't beat discrimination with discrimination (see: two wrongs don't make a right). Affirmative action by its very nature cannot create a meritocracy, and I was under the impression that was the gold standard we were supposed to be striving for. If we don't have a meritocracy (hint: we don't) then maybe we need to set up a system that allows one to exist rather than attempting to right a wrong with a wrong. For example, cross out names on resumes, provide interview transcripts (again, names and any gendered pronouns omitted, basically anything that can trigger biases, conscious or not) to employers, and put in place some way of making anti-discrimination laws that already exist enforceable. The problem is that discrimination very often stems from subconscious biases, and apparently efforts to eliminate these haven't worked, so maybe if we shift our focus to bypassing them, we can create a system where a true meritocracy can exist (as well as possibly setting up an environment that challenges people's preconceived notions).

A lot of your original post wasn't here or there.

The whole concept of "this should be a meritocracy" runs dangerously close to justifying leaving certain minorities out of the upper class by rationalizing why they didn't have access to it in the first place. Actually, now that I typed that out, I think "dangerously close" is forgiving. Read dice's post as to why minorities have a harder time "showing merit".

Your suggestion of a blind hiring process is not very well thought-out. It's unrealistic given that some places, like where I work, have only one or two people working on hiring to begin with. And unless you're interviewing someone over text message, someone is going to be capable of inserting bias into the process. This seems way harder to eliminate than kicking open a few doors.

And what in the world proves "you can't beat discrimination with discrimination"? (let's not get into that this isn't d&d and you're not a lawful neutral druid weirdo, there's no fucking use being pedantic and saying that affirmative action discriminates when it's helpful). Affirmative action happens. People have whined about it since I was a kid, but it's still a practice. It still trudges along. White people complaining about it doesn't prove anything. Find me some facts that prove that it does an unreasonable amount of harm and no good in the world.