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Lemonade Controversy
- Thread starter skies
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it's not separating racial groups -- no one's stopping you from appreciating and learning about another culture. cultural appropriation is when specific things from a culture are taken by those not in it and are used in a way that's disrespectful to the original culture. that's it.
"Would it just, explode your mind if you saw a transgendered black woman wearing a native american headdress when she has not a lick of native american in her?" yeah that'd be a bit messed up of her and disrespectful to native culture. not sure what you're trying to prove here
i personally don't think there's a problem with a male only golf club if it's a private institution. they can hurt their own profits if they want by not opening it up. i don't really care about golf courses in the grand scheme of race inequality when they're such a small part of a massive issue with race and gender.
and the idea that white privilege is racist is laughable -- a white man has privilege over a woman of any race and men of minority races. it's an overall fact, even if you can find specific exceptions where this isn't the case.
But how does people getting offended by "cultural appropriation" protect anything? Unless you are telling me we need to ban x race from doing y cultural thing (which I think we can agree is not the answer?), being offended doesn't do anything? It's not going to stop an ignorant person from continuing wearing whatever as a "fashion statement". This is why I think "cultural appropriation" is a term that's primarily used to instigate fake outrage, since it doesn't actually do anything other than complain about things a small minority does of a population does. Wouldn't it be better if we educated people about these things?
The mixing of culture is inevitable, and for the most part, that's not a bad thing. That's how we as a society move forward. Of course, we should absolutely respect the culture of the past. I definitely do not condone people being offensive towards other people's culture (even though it happens, and I'm sure a lot of people do it). But I don't view "cultural appropriation" as the term is used as being disrespectful. The amount of people who do such things that are actively trying to be disrespectful is very close to 0 in my eyes. And if it is disrespectful, it's something that's borne out of ignorance, not by someone with actual malicious intent.
e: just in response to above, I basically don't think there's any situation where someone actively tries to "take" culture and "use" it maliciously to hurt someone. I really don't think that happens, and I feel like it's something that people do to stir up controversy instead of actually solving actual issues.
OK, so you argue these songs have made political statements. That, by the way, wasn't my goalpost - what do these statements mean, and how are they similar to Beyonce's in a way that proves a double standard?
1.
first off, this song which is disallowed in my country but oh hell
I get knocked down, but I get up again
You are never gonna keep me down
I get knocked down, but I get up again
You are never gonna keep me down
here is the part where i would post the most offensive lyric to be fair to jumpluff except there isn't one. Maybe 'oh danny boy'? What is even considered political here?
2.
next up, pink floyd's money
'Money, get back
I'm all right Jack keep your hands off of my stack
Money, it's a hit
Don't give me that do goody good bullshit
I'm in the high-fidelity first class traveling set
And I think I need a Lear jet
Money, it's a crime
Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie
Money, so they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a raise it's no surprise
That they're giving none away
Away, away, way
(Away, away, away, away)'
i guess this is mildly political. seems to be talking more about the evils of money which, the left and the bible agree that money is the root of all evil so who is here to be offended precisely?
3.
Imagine - The Beatles - John Lennon
this might be the most wishy-washy political message to ever exist, ever. He's not even saying anything specific about how to achieve this goal - I guess if you believe that the right wing wants never ending war then this sure is controversial. Personally I would love to have peace, it's just that the other side doesn't agree...
4. Eminem - Cleaning Out My Closet
oh yes, the world's most powerful political lyric.
'Have you ever been hated or discriminated against?'
sounds pretty bad, is there a context
'I have, I've been protested and demonstrated against'
there you go, he's saying that his offensive lyrics have gotten him in trouble with the media. 'but tehy, that's kind of awkward sounding' any art form that requires rhymes will do that on occasion...
5. Queen: I Want It All
did you just post music by white people and forget to ask if there was any type of meaning to it
6-10: Bonus round!
6: a musical record made by a white person, and I guess they are in LA, want to have some fun before they die
7: a depressing song about being abused or maybe just beaten up or something. not really that political - do you think a black woman making a song about her being beaten would be met with outrage?
8: finally some kind of a political message. Granted from a song that was in german and one 40 years old, but you know.
it argues we're too willing to get into meaningless wars, I guess. kind of annoying but not outright outrageous really - the type of war they describe isn't at all like any recent war we engaged in (read: it's not the vietnam war), so there's that.
9: The Masses Against The Classes
The masses against the classes
I'm tired of giving a reason
When the future is what we believe in
We love the winter, it brings us closer together
do you see how this isn't a particularly inflammatory message or do you need it carefully explained to you
10: All About That Bass, apparently.
OK so i'm done with that, feel free to justify yourself if you want.
next up, a threefer: christian rock sounds explicitly political so why would i be 'offended', nazi music is i guess offensive and if someone with any type of actual fame were to make it there would be an unholy shitstorm but random people throwing out nazi opinions just doesn't get anyone excited, and some of those songs were hella subversive (fight the power) and i'm sure people were outraged about them!
let's finish it off with:
after googling, the only controversies here were A: the song had epically stupid lyrics, B: cover art was very sexually explicit, and C: she bitched about not winning an award and...i don't really know if she made it about her race or sex or not, it was difficult for me to tell just what was going on there, but either way i don't recall meghan trainor whining she didn't win an award so
jumpluff said:
what is the equivalent song taylor swift has made
tell me
jumpluff said:
you do realise that black men get drafted into war too right
and often used as frontline shock troops, fodder, given terrible treatment
but yes, stopping wars is what only the white men want. black people urgently wanted the vietnam war to happen. are you really equating these two? do you really think paul mccartney was saying that black people should stop fighting racism, or was he just saying that racists should stop killing black people? hmm tough one...
to complete this: Jumpluff, class and race are treated differently because class is a real thing and race isn't. You can stop being rich, you can't stop being black. Just because i'm white and have 'privilege' doesn't mean i can give that privilege to someone else, but i can give my money to that someone else quite easily.
It's good that you don't have a problem with it. and it's also good that you think it's bad when someone not white does it. That's what I was getting at with that.
RE: White privilege and racism
noun
noun: racism
- the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
other things
A: lol sorry skitty.
B: cultural appropriation is a term that is used to make people feel good about themselves. you'd think that, looking at this country's history, and its supposedly full-of-racism present, people would be thrilled that it is totally acceptable to associate yourself with things that ostensibly belong to black people or other minorities, consume those foods and wear those hairstyles without social censure, generally make an ass of yourself and so forth. you'd think that furthermore they would understand that this is ultimately what leads to racial harmony, and that on top of that every time they make noise about this it makes them and their political movement look like utter laughingstocks. Nope, because it's sort of annoying to a vocal minority, we must attack it at every step.
even if you think it's wrong, how can you not notice the right move is to shut your fool mouth about it? it's like when you see a baby taking his first steps - give him some time to figure it out for himself before you scream at him for doing it wrong, right?
this happens because what you're trying to do is be declared most progressive for progressivity points. how do you get the most progressivity points? by noticing progressive transgressions. the smaller and harder to detect, the more progressive and useful to the cause you must ultimately be! and so you get cultural appropriation : very very mildly offensive and it can be done to any group by any other group and it has no real actual consequences, but when you notice and attack it that makes you the most progressive so you do it.
A: lol sorry skitty.
B: cultural appropriation is a term that is used to make people feel good about themselves. you'd think that, looking at this country's history, and its supposedly full-of-racism present, people would be thrilled that it is totally acceptable to associate yourself with things that ostensibly belong to black people or other minorities, consume those foods and wear those hairstyles without social censure, generally make an ass of yourself and so forth. you'd think that furthermore they would understand that this is ultimately what leads to racial harmony, and that on top of that every time they make noise about this it makes them and their political movement look like utter laughingstocks. Nope, because it's sort of annoying to a vocal minority, we must attack it at every step.
even if you think it's wrong, how can you not notice the right move is to shut your fool mouth about it? it's like when you see a baby taking his first steps - give him some time to figure it out for himself before you scream at him for doing it wrong, right?
this happens because what you're trying to do is be declared most progressive for progressivity points. how do you get the most progressivity points? by noticing progressive transgressions. the smaller and harder to detect, the more progressive and useful to the cause you must ultimately be! and so you get cultural appropriation : very very mildly offensive and it can be done to any group by any other group and it has no real actual consequences, but when you notice and attack it that makes you the most progressive so you do it.
Why is there controversy surrounding lemonade?
Can you explain exactly how this works? Sorry if the nyt article details it but nyt blocks me from viewing articles cause I don't have a subscription. The first article has a couple paragraphs explaining that minority women are discouraged from taking these coding classes and such, "as research shows" or presenting it as common knowledge/known facts but it doesn't have any actual sources.
RE: underlined portion I just don't get what your words are saying; do you mean there's a smaller amount of jobs? or minorities?
Im with MrE. If anything, minority privilege exists in this country. Any problem you have whether it be terrible financial decisions or being a gangbanger or any sort of personal responsibility or chimpout or VIVA LA RAZA you can just blame on the whities.
No my swarthy friends, if anything, we need to speak out against the cultural assault on whites in this country. Every white TV dad is a giant retard. Weve got Ghostbusters remake lol and then Star Wars: A New Hope 90's texbook cover edition with hispanic pilot guy, STRONG FEMALE LEAD who already can masterfully use the lightsaber? ok and then Finn who is honestly pretty cool, and then probably in the next movie well have r2d2 in a wheelchair just to round things out. Youve got every dumbo professor at college writing books about you and a legion of pathologically guilty people with homeless people fashion sense ready to come to your aid no matter how dumb you act. Then youve got twitter and tumblr where people routinely talk about working to end the white race and nobody bats an eye.
No my swarthy friends, if anything, we need to speak out against the cultural assault on whites in this country. Every white TV dad is a giant retard. Weve got Ghostbusters remake lol and then Star Wars: A New Hope 90's texbook cover edition with hispanic pilot guy, STRONG FEMALE LEAD who already can masterfully use the lightsaber? ok and then Finn who is honestly pretty cool, and then probably in the next movie well have r2d2 in a wheelchair just to round things out. Youve got every dumbo professor at college writing books about you and a legion of pathologically guilty people with homeless people fashion sense ready to come to your aid no matter how dumb you act. Then youve got twitter and tumblr where people routinely talk about working to end the white race and nobody bats an eye.
shame things turned sour rather quickly
I was gonna keep going but I think v summed things up rather well.
There's about 10 music threads in great library if people want to talk about the songs.
There's about 10 music threads in great library if people want to talk about the songs.
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