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In this generation specifically, I would have to say not really - while all 3 of these mons have the same typing and a wide movepool, the only thing Kangaskhan has over them is Early Bird and access to Reversal (which I, personally, prefer to run on something like Hitmonlee).
The only thing I can really recommend is, instead of using Snorlax, a Kangaskhan on the team can do a decent damage with Endure and Reversal. I'd recommend using it for level 50 challenges, since you may have an easier time without a Tyranitar screwing up the chance of Kangaskhan being able to survive after using Endure.
Replacing Tauros with a Kangaskhan just feels like a waste to me; it's all up to preference, but my preference is getting off that Intimidate and hitting an opponent hard and quick thanks to Tauros's high base Speed and Attack. I wouldn't put a Kangaskhan on a team that would work best with a Tauros up front, since it can't lower the opponent's Attack right off the bat.
I do suggest getting more opinions on this, as I'm not an expert and a lot of other users in this thread have had more experience than me. They can probably give better input on how to utilize a Kangaskhan than I can.
It is a lot bulkier on the special side compared to Tauros, and is much faster than Snorlax. It also has Early Bird which is probably its only real niche. It has good stats and a good movepool so I'm sure there is some team that could make use of it to fill some missing role. As for building a team around it, here are a couple sets that could work:
Leftovers, Max HP, Max SDEF, Careful nature
Crush Claw, Earthquake, Rest, Sleep Talk
Normal / Ground covers almost everything except for Gengar, Misdreavus, and Skarmory
The EVs can allow it to switch in on Modest Starmie's Hydro Pump and stall it out with Rest (barring crits)
Its propensity to get crit by a strong attack lowers its viability
Clear Body and Curse users wall you
OHKOs users are dangerous but at least Kangaskhan has good synergy with Skarmory
Maybe use Protect or Substitute to scout sets
Unless you have a way to take advantage of Kangaskhan's speed, Snorlax probably does this better
No Item, Bulk and a little speed
Thief, Mud-Slap, Rest, Roar
You can debuff most things that don't have a Fighting type move
Roar is for stuff you can't debuff such as Clear Body, Levitate, and Flying types, but you are probably better off having a switch-in for those instead
Edit: I thought of another set:
Choice Band with STAB Double-Edge is actually pretty unique. Consider who it competes with: Slaking, Dodrio, Zangoose, Ursaring, and Tauros. Kangaskhan doesn't have Truant and differentiates itself from the others by way of its more balanced stat distribution, sans Tauros. Tauros has better offensive stats but Kangaskhan gets Shadow Ball, Fighting type attacks, and better HP and SDEF.
You don't even need Choice Band. Maybe there is some set that uses Double-Edge and Rest. Even without Choice Band, I'm sure it still gets some OHKOs with enough Attack investment.
Of these 3, is Snorlax by far the best, he can be able to learn Rest and Curse is unstopable. Body Slam for stab and Shadow Ball for Ghosts. Also it can have Explosion to definitily kill some one.
Now, about Tauros. I think it have the same nich of Kangaskhan, bulk normal pokémon under used. Kanghaskan become Over Used after gen 6, with it's Mega Evolution. But in gen 3 here is kind of meh...
But, if you want to use Kanghaskhan in the battle tower of emerald, the best move set I can suggest is Fake Out, Endure, Reversal and Dizzy Punch. All learned by level> https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Kangaskhan_(Pokémon)/Generation_III_learnset
You also can teach some special moves as Bite via lv or Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Surf via TM but I don't recomend because Kanghaskhan don't have that great SATK, but via TM you can teach Earthquack or ShadowBall (to don't be so weak to Ghosts).
Has anyone tried Entei in any of the facilities? I am trying to reset for the three beasts on Colosseum and have no idea what Entei nature/stats to aim for given it's not that popular as a Frontier mon. So if anyone has a suggestion that would be appreciated. The idea is to be able to Ribbon Master it and use it in Battle Tower eventually.
Has anyone tried Entei in any of the facilities? I am trying to reset for the three beasts on Colosseum and have no idea what Entei nature/stats to aim for given it's not that popular as a Frontier mon. So if anyone has a suggestion that would be appreciated. The idea is to be able to Ribbon Master it and use it in Battle Tower eventually.
I think Entei is the worst dog of the Johto's legendary trio. I think that because his Atk is way bigger then his Satk. And in this generation all fire moves are special, so he can't use a powerfull stab move because it's Satk is soo poor.
But if you want to use Entei in battle tower I would suggest to teach to him Bite, Roar, Flamethrower and Calm Mind. All moves learned by level. https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Entei_(Pokémon)/Generation_III_learnset
I think Entei is the worst dog of the Johto's legendary trio. I think that because his Atk is way bigger then his Satk. And in this generation all fire moves are special, so he can't use a powerfull stab move because it's Satk is soo poor.
But if you want to use Entei in battle tower I would suggest to teach to him Bite, Roar, Flamethrower and Calm Mind. All moves learned by level. https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Entei_(Pokémon)/Generation_III_learnset
Sunny Day
Solar Beam
Flamethrower
Bite/Hidden Power Ice/ Calm Mind?
This way Entei can reduce incoming water damage, attack waters, ground, and rock all his weaknesses right? Maybe bite is good for coverage and maybe hidden power ice for dragons like salamence or flygon. Maybe I'm missing something critical though.
For the arena, Kangaskhan is one of the bulkier pokemon to be able to run fake out+protect+dig. Meaning if it's slower it can also sometimes effectively do a dig+rest turn to win skill and body.
For the palace, early bird is tempting in the palace but Kagaskhan doesn't have a defensive move to take advantage of it like bulk up or calm mind, (not even light screen), much less the stats.
Best I could come up with is a Calm Kangaskhan with leftovers, rest, substitute, double team, rock smash. Where hopefully it stalls out the opponent and lets your physical attacker win fast with the lowered defense. With the back up plan being that it can 1v1 by winning the struggle war. Really needs aurora beam over rock smash though. Even when mud slap is effective it still seems like too much of a gamble to send out the next pokemon with (for evasion to be effective you need the bulk to survive multiple hits but this is the opposite of the type of pokemon that could be used as a finisher most of the time). IDK maybe it would be better then no defensive improvement though.
Sunny Day
Solar Beam
Flamethrower
Bite/Hidden Power Ice/ Calm Mind?
This way Entei can reduce incoming water damage, attack waters, ground, and rock all his weaknesses right? Maybe bite is good for coverage and maybe hidden power ice for dragons like salamence or flygon. Maybe I'm missing something critical though.
Yeah I had something like that in mind but wanted to see if anyone had a "standard" set for it. I ended up settling for a Rash nature with decent Atk, SpA and Spe IVs. Should be good enough for the end goal.
I would like to submit a Battle Palace streak for the leaderboard in Kommo-o's post.
Battle Palace
Single Battle
45 battles won
Open level (lv.60)
Cartridge, no emulator
Latias, Flygon & Milotic
This is the same team I used in my Battle Pike streak posted here, and my Battle Dome streak posted here.
THE TEAM
Of course I could have made a separate Battle Palace team with lots of Pokemon with a Hasty nature, but I decided to see how this team would do by trying the early, easy rounds with my tried and true Dome and Pike team. And these three Pokemon did surprisingly well, often using the moves I wanted them to use. And so, I decided to try to reach Spenser and win the gold symbol with my Latias, Flygon and Milotic team.
Pretty self-explanatory. Thunderbolt is a great coverage move alongside Dragon Claw. Lum Berry is a lifesaver.
You might be wondering why I am using Latias instead of Latios. Not just in the Battle Palace, but in other Battle Frontier facilities as well. After all, I am using an offensive Calm Mind set with offensive EV's. However, I strongly prefer Latias over Latios, because of the extra bulk. Latias can set up against opponents that Latios would get 2HKO'ed by. Once Latias sets up Calm Mind, she can hit extremely hard as well, harder than Latios can without set-up.
Latias is very smart. Timid works very well with this moveset. After all, Timid Pokemon are very likely to attack when they are not heavily damaged, so Latias often ended up killing opponents with Dragon Claw, and occasionally used Calm Mind. When she ended up getting below 50% HP, she often used Recover.
There were a few annoying moments. For example, when Latias's HP bar was in the red, but she was able to kill an opponent... And then goes for Calm Mind and gets defeated. Oh well... Timid Latias with these moves mostly works very well in the Battle Frontier.
Emerald the Flygon
Adamant, 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Speed
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Double-Edge
- Fly
Flygon's Adamant STAB Choice Banded Earthquake is fucking amazing.
Flygon only has offensive moves, which is exactly what you want Flygon to do in the Battle Palace. I saw that some people used Hasty Flygon knowing only two moves, Rock Slide and Earthquake. This makes sense. After all, with the Choice Band, being locked into Earthquake is exactly what you want in this facility. However, I decided to keep the other two moves for coverage, which has served me well. Flygon mostly used Earthquake, but was smart enough to use Fly against grass and bug Pokemon.
Would it have been better to delete Fly and Double-Edge? Maybe, but the occasional moments when Flygon used Fly were beneficial more often than not.
Milotic is amazing in the Battle Frontier. He can stall out a lot of opponents and even won some battles on his own. Even when an opponent's first Pokemon killed both Latias and Flygon, Milotic has stalled out the opponent all by himself a few times. And thanks to Marvel Scale, Milotic doesn't mind non-Toxic status conditions as much. Paralysis helped me to stall out physical attackers a few times.
With a Bold nature, Milotic has a reasonable chance to use offensive, defensive or supporting moves. He is smart enough to use Recover whenever his HP drops below 50%. The only downside? He sometimes uses Toxic on already poisoned Pokemon, or on rock or steel Pokemon. Luckily, Milotic can often afford to waste a turn, since he is bulky enough to win long stalling wars.
I have two dragons on my team, but this is not a problem. After all, Latias is able to handle most non-STAB ice moves. And of course I have Milotic, who can take ice moves with ease and outstall the bulky waters who use those moves.
THE STRATEGY
The strategy? Well, knowing what moves my Pokemon tend to use and hoping to be a little lucky. And of course using this page on Bulbapedia and switching whenever necessary.
Latias is my lead. She is able to beat most opponents and often beats at least one or two Pokemon before going down.
Flygon needs to hope to use the right move. After all, Choice Band locks him in it. Earthquake against a team without fliers or levitators? Amazing.
I tried to make sure Flygon would never be my last Pokemon. After all, if he is locked into a move that an opponent's Pokemon is resistent or immune to, I am fucked. If Flygon uses the wrong move, I need to be able to switch out to Milotic.
Milotic was my last Pokemon in most of the battles. If all else fails, Milotic can turn battles around all by himself.
My goal was to win Spenser's gold symbol. Anything else would be a bonus.
Well, the battle against Spenser went much better than I expected. And that after a rocky start... Watch:
THE END
Extreme OHKO hax ended my streak... First, the opponent, a lass, used Dewgong. The sea lion suffered heavy damage from Latias's Thunderbolt. Sadly, my Eon Pokemon got killed by Sheer Fucking Cold on the first fucking turn... Then, Flygon killed Dewgong and the opponent's Gengar with Fly. Sadly, the opponent's last Pokemon was Whiscash, whose Quick Claw activated. Whiscash killed Flygon with Ice Beam.
I was hoping that Milotic could outstall Whiscash, but yeah... After two Surfs, Whiscash was almost gone. However, Milotic decided to go for Toxic. At the end of the turn, Whiscash would succumb to poison damage. However, I got a bad feeling. Sure, Milotic had enough HP left to soak up another Earthquake and maybe even a critical hit, but I just knew that Whiscash would go for Fissure... And of course, it used fucking Fissure. As usual, opponents never miss when using OHKO moves and Milotic died.
Two of my Pokemon got hit by OHKO moves in a battle that I would have won without this extreme hax. Extremely unlucky, of course. Even though this is also my own fault. After all, you know that this happens all the time in the Battle Frontier. When your team lacks a Pokemon with the Sturdy ability, occasionally losing like this is inevitable.
Anyways, it was a good streak. I wanted the gold symbol and I got it. As shitty as my loss was, it's okay. I was really unsure whether I would be capable of winning a gold symbol at a difficult facility like the Battle Palace. After all, this was my first serious attempt at a Battle Palace streak. These Pokemon were the ones I already used in the Battle Frontier, and were not bred/caught just for the Palace. And of course it doesn't help that knowledge about natures and opponents is not enough. After all, in this facility, you need some luck. You need to hope that your Pokemon use the right moves, and that your opponent doesn't always do the smartest thing.
Could I have gotten a longer winning streak with a team geared towards this facility? Probably. But I got the gold symbol I wanted, so it's okay.
What gold symbol am I going to try to win next? Battle Pyramid? Battle Tower? Probably either of those. I will attempt to start a streak later this week.
Some people might think that Latios is better for an offensive Calm Mind set, but I prefer Latias. Why? Bulk. Setting up against opponents that 2HKO Latios.
My goal at the start of a battle, if possible? Setting up Calm Mind and sweeping. However, you have to make sure that you are careful. Setting up six Calm Minds is nice, but if Latias is slightly damaged and a normally manageable Ice Beam suddenly crits, Latias is dead. And when the Lum Berry is consumed, you cannot set up against Ice Punch or Thunderbolt or whatever unless you have no other way of dealing with an opponent, since getting statused is just too scary.
Emerald the Flygon
Adamant, 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Speed
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Double-Edge
- Fly
I mostly just use Earthquake and Rock Slide. Adamant STAB banded Earthquake is fucking amazing. However, Double-Edge and Fly definitely have their uses. Fly is this team's best bet at dealing with Heracross. Double-Edge is great against a Gardevoir that traced Flygon's or Latias's Levitate. Of course Return is also an option instead of Double-Edge, but so far, I like the extra power that Double-Edge offers. So far, Double-Edge has not disappointed me.
Some people here only use Milotic because they cannot get Suicune, or because they are too lazy to soft reset for a good Suicune in Colosseum. However, people need to understand that Milotic and Suicune fulfill different roles on a team, and that Milotic is a great Pokemon in its own right.
That being said, I actually prefer Milotic over Suicune. After all, Suicune cannot spam Recover. Suicune cannot use both Toxic to stall and Ice Beam to be a dragon slayer. Rest turns Suicune into a sitting duck, unless you go for RestTalk. Meanwhile, Milotic can freely do whatever it wants.
Don't get me wrong, I love Suicune. When playing competitively and when doing the Battle Subway/Maison/whatever in later generations, I loved using RestTalk Calm Mind Suicune. However, for the Gen 3 Battle Frontier, I would much rather use Milotic. Both because I actually prefer Milotic, and because I already have a Calm Mind user, Latias. I feel like Milotic has great synergy with Latias and especially with Flygon.
There were a few battles in which both of my dragons fainted because of bad luck or, one time, a stupid misclick... But Milotic stalled out the opponent's entire team. That says it all, doesn't it?
I have two dragons on my team, but the weakness to dragon and ice is not a problem. After all, Latias is able to handle most non-STAB ice moves. And of course I have Milotic, who can take ice moves with ease and outstall the bulky waters who use those moves. So yeah, Milotic allows me to run both Latias and Flygon on this team.
THE STRATEGY
The strategy? Well, using Bulbapedia resources (link and link) to determine what moveset an opponent might have, of course.
Latias is my lead. She can set up at least one Calm Mind and sometimes even four, five or six against a lot of opponents. Once she is set up, winning is easy.
Milotic is the great wall, who can outstall almost anything that doesn't have a STAB electric move or a shitload of Attack or Special Attack boosts under its belt.
Flygon's Earthquake? Pure murder. Of course I need to make sure that Flygon is not my last Pokemon standing if the opponent has two or three Pokemon. After all, being locked into Earthquake sucks if the opponent sends out a Crobat or a Skarmory, and I cannot switch...
Milotic and Flygon are amazing at covering each other's weaknesses. Flygon is immune to electric and Earthquakes those pesky thunderbolters to death. Meanswhile, Milotic has no trouble dealing with the Ice Beams and Ice Punches that would kill Flygon. Bulky waters and opposing dragons are Flygon's main problem, but Milotic easily outstalls the waters and Ice Beams the dragons. And of course I have Latias, who can set up on some bulky waters and who outspeeds and uses Dragon Claw against opposing dragons.
Is this the best team ever? No. However, it was good enough to reach my goal: beating Anabel and winning the gold symbol. This team might be even better with a Steel/Dragon/Water core, replacing a dragon with a steel type, preferably with Sturdy. However, Latias and Flygon are just so good... So yeah, I decided to just stick to this team and see how far I would get.
THREATS
- Heracross. Megahorn OHKOs both Latias and Flygon. My best bet? Letting Latias Dragon Claw and accepting that Heracross kills her, then sending out Flygon to outspeed and OHKO or letting Milotic take one Megahorn (Milotic's HP just barely stays in the green after a Megahorn) and retaliating with Surf.
- Snorlax. My best bet is to switch to Flygon and Earthquake it to death (usually 2HKO), and let Milotic finish it off by alternating between Surf and Recover if Flygon dies. CurseLax with STAB moves is the biggest threat.
- OHKO users. Luckily, my team can kill them, but if I am really unlucky, I am fucked. Latias's Thunderbolt is a 2HKO against Dewgong and Flygon's Earthquake kills it. Rhydon is easily killed by both Flygon and Milotic, but if Quick Claw activates, Horn Drill kills them. Walrein is 2HKOed by Latias, who can survive an Ice Beam, and by Flygon... But yeah, you get the idea. No reliable counter. No Sturdy user. It's nice that both Flygon and Latias are immune to Fissure, but that's not enough.
- Latios is unpredictable. Since they don't tend to run a lot of Speed EV's, Flygon can outspeed and almost OHKO or outright kill it with Double-Edge, but he cannot safely switch in, unless the AI uses Thunderbolt because Milotic is out. Latias can outspeed and Dragon Claw or Calm Mind, but of course she is not a safe answer. Milotic does not like Thunderbolt and is usually 2HKOed or, if lucky, just barely survives two Thunderbolts... But can deal a lot of damage with Ice Beam or use Toxic and try to do some stalling.
Latios, Snorlax and Heracross tend to take out at least one team member. If I can figure out their moveset and accept that at least one team member dies, I can usually get around them, but it's not easy. If I ever challenge the Battle Tower again and want to tweak my team, I will definitely keep these threats in mind.
ANABEL
Easy. Just watch the battle. Or, click the spoiler tag for a quick log:
Latias sets up Calm Mind against Raikou. This was easy, since the electric dog's only damaging move is Thunderbolt. I decided to set up six Calm Minds. If Latias would have gotten paralysed and the Lum Berry would have been consumed, I would have stopped Calm Minding sooner, but that was not necessary.
Raikou's weak Thunderbolts were not treathening at all. Raikou used Calm Mind a few times as well, but was unable to prevent an easy 2HKO for Latias.
Then, Latios comes out and gets killed by Latias's +6 Dragon Claw.
Snorlax, Anabel's last Pokemon, just barely survives a Dragon Claw, but is 2HKOed without any problems. If Anabel would have gone for Shadow Ball instead of Curse and Latias would have died, Flygon or Milotic could have easily finished the fight. However, that did not happen, allowing Latias to sweep Anabel all by herself.
THE END
My runs in other facilities ended because of hax. OHKO hax. However, this time, I think I should have done things differently. Sure, there was hax. Sure, I would have won this battle if it wasn't for that stupid Quick Claw and flinch hax Donphan. However, despite that, I made some misplays and should have done things differently.
- Latias Calm Mind, Donphan Rock Slides for about 40-45%.
- Donphan's Quick Claw activates, Rock Slide almost kills Latias, who flinches instead of using Dragon Claw.
- Quick Claw activates again, preventing Latias from using Recover and killing her with another Rock Slide.
- I send out Flygon and use Earthquake, which heavily damages Donphan. Sadly, Donphan uses Iron Tail, which OHKOs Flygon with a critical hit.
- I send out Milotic, whose Surf kills Donphan.
- The opponent sends out Heracross, who outspeeds Milotic and uses Megahorn for about 40-45% damage. Milotic's Surf does about 35%.
- Heracross's Megahorn gets Milotic's HP in the red. Milotic uses Recover.
- Heracross's Megahorn crits. Milotic faints. I lost.
Of course the hax screwed me over. Without Donphan's Quick Claw activating twice in a row and without Latias flinching, Latias could have used Dragon Claw at least once, probably killing Donphan and otherwise damaging it enough for Flygon to take it out, or allowing Latias to recover.
Then, if Latias would have killed Donphan with at least one Calm Mind under its belt, Heracross would have been seriously damaged by Dragon Claw, allowing Flygon to take it out with Double-Edge (more accurate than Fly). Then, with both Flygon and Milotic left, I would have had a good chance to beat whatever the opponent's final Pokemon was.
But yeah, in the end, I don't think Milotic would have been able to PP stall Heracross's Megahorn without at least one crit happening.
What should I have done differently? Well, I was too scared to switch in Milotic, because Donphan has Fissure. However, I could have switched in Flygon on a predicted Rock Slide and use Earthquake. Then, if Flygon killed Donphan and Heracross came out, Flygon's Earthquake would have heavily damaged Heracross, allowing Latias or Milotic to take it out with Dragon Claw or Surf.
Anyways, this was my first serious attempt at the Battle Tower in Emerald. I wanted to beat Anabel and I did, so I'm happy about that. However, after winning about 80 battles, I was hoping that maybe, just maybe, I could win 100 battles and win that cool thing for my Secret Base. Sadly, it was not meant to be.
Maybe I will return to the Battle Tower later and attempt a streak of 100 wins. However, before I do that, I want to challenge the Battle Pyramid and Battle Arena for a gold symbol. And of course the dreaded Battle Factory, which I hate so much... But yeah, I think I will do the Pyramid or the Arena first. Once I get the remaining three gold symbols, I will probably return to the Battle Tower to see if I can get a streak of at least 100 wins going.
Some people might think that Latios is better for an offensive Calm Mind set, but I prefer Latias. Why? Bulk. Setting up against opponents that 2HKO Latios.
My goal at the start of a battle, if possible? Setting up Calm Mind and sweeping. However, you have to make sure that you are careful. Setting up six Calm Minds is nice, but if Latias is slightly damaged and a normally manageable Ice Beam suddenly crits, Latias is dead. And when the Lum Berry is consumed, you cannot set up against Ice Punch or Thunderbolt or whatever unless you have no other way of dealing with an opponent, since getting statused is just too scary.
Emerald the Flygon
Adamant, 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Speed
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Double-Edge
- Fly
I mostly just use Earthquake and Rock Slide. Adamant STAB banded Earthquake is fucking amazing. However, Double-Edge and Fly definitely have their uses. Fly is this team's best bet at dealing with Heracross. Double-Edge is great against a Gardevoir that traced Flygon's or Latias's Levitate. Of course Return is also an option instead of Double-Edge, but so far, I like the extra power that Double-Edge offers. So far, Double-Edge has not disappointed me.
The great wall. I actually prefer Milotic over Suicune. After all, Suicune cannot spam Recover. Rest turns Suicune into a sitting duck, unless you go for RestTalk. Don't get me wrong, I love RestTalking Calm Mind Suicune, but giving up on Toxic and Ice Beam sucks. Having Ice Beam makes Milotic the ultimate dragon counter, while Toxic allows him to outstall almost any opponent if needed. There were a few battles in which both of my dragons fainted, but Milotic stalled out the opponent's entire team.
In Gen 4's Battle Frontier, Suicune would be my first choice for a water type. After all, the power creep means that Milotic lacks the physical bulk to wall and outstall so many threats. However, in Gen 3, Milotic is a fucking beast. In fact, I believe that Milotic is the king of the Gen 3 Battle Frontier.
I have two dragons on my team, but this is not a problem. After all, Latias is able to handle most non-STAB ice moves. And of course I have Milotic, who can take ice moves with ease and outstall the bulky waters who use those moves. So yeah, Milotic allows me to run both Latias and Flygon on this team.
THE STRATEGY
The strategy? Well, using Bulbapedia resources (link and link) to determine what moveset an opponent might have, of course.
Latias is my lead. She can set up at least one Calm Mind and sometimes even four, five or six against a lot of opponents. Once she is set up, winning is easy.
Milotic is the great wall, who can outstall almost anything that doesn't have a STAB electric move or a shitload of Attack or Special Attack boosts under its belt.
Flygon's Earthquake? Pure murder. Of course I need to make sure that Flygon is not my last Pokemon standing if the opponent has two or three Pokemon. After all, being locked into Earthquake sucks if the opponent sends out a Crobat or a Skarmory, and I cannot switch...
Milotic and Flygon are amazing at covering each other's weaknesses. Flygon is immune to electric and Earthquakes those pesky thunderbolters to death. Meanswhile, Milotic has no trouble dealing with the Ice Beams and Ice Punches that would kill Flygon. Bulky waters and opposing dragons are Flygon's main problem, but Milotic easily outstalls the waters and Ice Beams the dragons. And of course I have Latias, who can set up on some bulky waters and who outspeeds and uses Dragon Claw against opposing dragons.
Is this the best team ever? No. However, it was good enough to reach my goal: beating Anabel and winning the gold symbol. This team might be even better with a Steel/Dragon/Water core, replacing a dragon with a steel type, preferably with Sturdy. However, Latias and Flygon are just so good... So yeah, I decided to just stick to this team and see how far I would get.
THREATS
- Heracross. Megahorn OHKOs both Latias and Flygon. My best bet? Letting Latias Dragon Claw and accepting that Heracross kills her, then sending out Flygon to outspeed and OHKO or letting Milotic take one Megahorn (Milotic's HP just barely stays in the green after a Megahorn) and retaliating with Surf.
- Snorlax. My best bet is to switch to Flygon and Earthquake it to death (usually 2HKO), and let Milotic finish it off by alternating between Surf and Recover if Flygon dies. CurseLax with STAB moves is the biggest threat.
- OHKO users. Luckily, my team can kill them, but if I am really unlucky, I am fucked. Latias's Thunderbolt is a 2HKO against Dewgong and Flygon's Earthquake kills it. Rhydon is easily killed by both Flygon and Milotic, but if Quick Claw activates, Horn Drill kills them. Walrein is 2HKOed by Latias, who can survive an Ice Beam, and by Flygon... But yeah, you get the idea. No reliable counter. No Sturdy user. It's nice that both Flygon and Latias are immune to Fissure, but that's not enough.
- Latios is unpredictable. Since they don't tend to run a lot of Speed EV's, Flygon can outspeed and almost OHKO or outright kill it with Double-Edge, but he cannot safely switch in, unless the AI uses Thunderbolt because Milotic is out. Latias can outspeed and Dragon Claw or Calm Mind, but of course she is not a safe answer. Milotic does not like Thunderbolt and is usually 2HKOed or, if lucky, just barely survives two Thunderbolts... But can deal a lot of damage with Ice Beam or use Toxic and try to do some stalling.
Latios, Snorlax and Heracross tend to take out at least one team member. If I can figure out their moveset and accept that at least one team member dies, I can usually get around them, but it's not easy. If I ever challenge the Battle Tower again and want to tweak my team, I will definitely keep these threats in mind.
ANABEL
Easy. Just watch the battle. Or, click the spoiler tag for a quick log:
Latias sets up Calm Mind against Raikou. This was easy, since the electric dog's only damaging move is Thunderbolt. I decided to set up six Calm Minds. If Latias would have gotten paralysed and the Lum Berry would have been consumed, I would have stopped Calm Minding sooner, but that was not necessary.
Raikou's weak Thunderbolts were not treathening at all. Raikou used Calm Mind a few times as well, but was unable to prevent an easy 2HKO for Latias.
Then, Latios comes out and gets killed by Latias's +6 Dragon Claw.
Snorlax, Anabel's last Pokemon, just barely survives a Dragon Claw, but is 2HKOed without any problems. If Anabel would have gone for Shadow Ball instead of Curse and Latias would have died, Flygon or Milotic could have easily finished the fight. However, that did not happen, allowing Latias to sweep Anabel all by herself.
THE END
My runs in other facilities ended because of hax. OHKO hax. However, this time, I think I should have done things differently. Sure, there was hax. Sure, I would have won this battle if it wasn't for that stupid Quick Claw and flinch hax Donphan. However, despite that, I made some misplays and should have done things differently.
- Latias Calm Mind, Donphan Rock Slides for about 40-45%.
- Donphan's Quick Claw activates, Rock Slide almost kills Latias, who flinches instead of using Dragon Claw.
- Quick Claw activates again, preventing Latias from using Recover and killing her with another Rock Slide.
- I send out Flygon and use Earthquake, which heavily damages Donphan. Sadly, Donphan uses Iron Tail, which OHKOs Flygon with a critical hit.
- I send out Milotic, whose Surf kills Donphan.
- The opponent sends out Heracross, who outspeeds Milotic and uses Megahorn for about 40-45% damage. Milotic's Surf does about 35%.
- Heracross's Megahorn gets Milotic's HP in the red. Milotic uses Recover.
- Heracross's Megahorn crits. Milotic faints. I lost.
Of course the hax screwed me over. Without Donphan's Quick Claw activating twice in a row and without Latias flinching, Latias could have used Dragon Claw at least once, probably killing Donphan and otherwise damaging it enough for Flygon to take it out, or allowing Latias to recover.
Then, if Latias would have killed Donphan with at least one Calm Mind under its belt, Heracross would have been seriously damaged by Dragon Claw, allowing Flygon to take it out with Double-Edge (more accurate than Fly). Then, with both Flygon and Milotic left, I would have had a good chance to beat whatever the opponent's final Pokemon was.
But yeah, in the end, I don't think Milotic would have been able to PP stall Heracross's Megahorn without at least one crit happening.
What should I have done differently? Well, I was too scared to switch in Milotic, because Donphan has Fissure. However, I could have switched in Flygon on a predicted Rock Slide and use Earthquake. Then, if Flygon killed Donphan and Heracross came out, Flygon's Earthquake would have heavily damagde Heracross, allowing Latias or Milotic to take it out with Dragon Claw or Surf.
Anyways, this was my first serious attempt at the Battle Tower in Emerald. I wanted to beat Anabel and I did, so I'm happy about that. However, after winning about 80 battles, I was hoping that maybe, just maybe, I could win 100 battles and win that cool thing for my Secret Base. Sadly, it was not meant to be.
Maybe I will return to the Battle Tower later and attempt a streak of 100 wins. However, before I do that, I want to challenge the Battle Pyramid and Battle Arena for a gold symbol. And of course the dreaded Battle Factory, which I hate so much... But yeah, I think I will do the Pyramid or the Arena first.
That's unfortunate. Quick claw is pretty infuriating. I haven't been able to build a unique team that is strong enough for the majority of the tower and counters QC hax.
That's unfortunate. Quick claw is pretty infuriating. I haven't been able to build a unique team that is strong enough for the majority of the tower and counters QC hax.
Yeah, losing like this sucks. It's even more frustrating than losing to OHKO hax. Especially because Donphan's Quick Claw activated not once, but twice... And because it made Latias flinch. And then, adding insult to injury, OHKOing Flygon with Iron Tail. That Donphan is a lucky bastard. Lucky enough to win lotteries.
With either Latias or Flygon left, I think I could have at least defeated that opponent's Heracross. Then, the surviving dragon could have damaged Heracross enough for Milotic to take it out with Surf. Then, with Milotic at, let's say, 60% HP after taking one Megahorn from Heracross, I would probably have had a good chance to win against the opponent's last Pokemon.
Oh well, it wasn't meant to be. And hey, I fucked up by leaving Latias in when I could have switched to Flygon, who resists Rock Slide.
There are teams that consistently get 100+ wins. This thread's leaderboard has teams that consistently won even more than 1000 battles! But yeah, I really don't want to copy someone else's team to get those wins. I would rather use my own average team and struggle for 100 wins, than copy someone else's amazing team and rack up over 500 wins. Of course I'm open to feedback and making some changes, but I want it to be my own team and not a copy of someone else's team.
My team building skills? Those are not amazing, I'm afraid.
Well, this Latias - Flygon - Milotic team has served me well in different facilities, winning gold symbols in the Pike, Dome, Tower and Palace. But the Tower and Palace streaks were just barely good enough for the gold symbols and for the bottom of the leaderboard here. So yeah, that's pretty aveage at best. However, I got a decent Battle Dome streak... And a very long streak in the Battle Pike, good enough to be #4 on the Open Level Battle Pike leaderboard once the leaderboard gets updated. So at least I actually achieved at least one streak that I can actually be proud of.
And like I said in my posts... This is my first proper Battle Frontier attempt. So yeah, that says it all. I don't have the Battle Frontier team building skills that some other people here have. And back when I played competitively, in Gen 3 and 4, I have never been a top-tier player either. Sure, I reached #5 of Smogon's Gen 4 UU leaderboard once, more than 10 years ago, but that was my only serious competitive achievement. I was a pretty average competitive player at best.
Oh well... Getting these gold symbols is what I wanted. Longer streaks are a nice bonus. Once I get the remaining gold symbols, I will probably come back to the Battle Tower for an attempt to win 100 battles. And if that doesn't go well, I will consider changing my team or building a new team.
I picked up my Emerald cart about 2 months ago and have now finally got all the gold symbols! It's something that seemed so impossible as a child so it felt really good to do it - took me over 200 hours though...
Since my cart was second hand and I didn't restart, I was missing a few key things for my run:
A lot of useful TMs had been used. Shadow Ball, Toxic, Earthquake and all gym leader TMs were gone
With Earthquake being absolutely vital to a lot of mons' viability in gen 3, I had to grind Pickup for about 3 days to get a TM (thank god you actually could get another)
For anyone that doesn't know, a level 91 Pickup mon has a 1/100 chance to get a TM26 as its item, which only happens 10% of the time after you win a battle... I had 5 Linoones but it was still a horrible task
A few nice pokemon were simply unaccessible, specifically the Latis (it seems the original owner caught Latios and took it with him into gen 4) and Swampert. Anything that required trading like Blissey was also unavailable
Some items were also very hard to obtain/just impossible, like Shell Bell, Macho Brace (who knows where that went...) and berries. Thankfully most of the daily berry events hadn't been used up before the clock died so I got a Lum Berry and a beauty berry for Milotic
Grinding for mons took a huge amount of time, and I only ended up doing 5. Having to fight 300 pokemon to fully EV train (after vitamins), finding a Feebas tile, grinding Pickup for ages and just breeding the pokemon probably took close to 50 hours. I didn't bother with IVs to save my sanity, I figured that a good nature and proper EVs would be the majority of the stat variance and accepted the first good nature I got. It did mean some of my abilities were bad, Illuminate Starmie and Swarm Heracross to be specific, but for the most part a Lum Berry solved any real issues they posed.
I am slightly fuzzy on some of the details during my runs, especially the paths to the brains, but I'll do my best to recall them and give my thoughts on each facility. Ordered in terms of completion.
Battle Pike Open Level - Level 60 (191 rooms)
Miltank @ Lum Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 60
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 18 HP / 5 Atk / 4 Def / 0 SpA / 7 SpD / 5 Spe
- Thunder Wave
- Body Slam
- Milk Drink
- Heal Bell
Yeah... this team was something I thought was broken but in reality sucked. The idea was to Twave spam with Miltank and use Milotic and Heracross to break teams. I had no BP at this point so went to the Pike to grind - hence the Heracross moves and lack of item. Miltank was actually quite useful with Milk Drink and Heal Bell. I also didn't have another move to put on Milotic so Safeguard was kept.
I always went for rooms with nostalgia or sensing pokemon, as they were likely to not give me tough trainer battles. I could easily heal off any status conditions with Heal Bell. The gold symbol fight was super lucky - Lucy's Gyarados went for 5 Dragon Dances and started resting and all I could do was Strength with Heracross. This went on for about 10 turns before I got a huge crit and was able to clean up from there.
My loss was a double battle where the opponent had Entei and Latias, I had taken a few hits earlier because I was having a rough run of facing trainers and Latias was the final nail in the coffin.
This is a reasonably easy facility to grind BP for and get a quick symbol. It scales quite quickly and you can go through sets of 7 without facing any battles.
Battle Factory Open Level (42 wins)
This is my favourite facility and having lost so many times its where I learnt about some of the battling mechanics of the game and general frontier sets. By the time I got to this run I had had three 28+ runs in a row that had failed, with one loss actually against the brain.
I don't remember my first 4 sets of pokemon but my last three were:
I ran through sets 5 and 6 easily without having to switch mons, set 5 was surprising because of the fire weakness but Breloom outsped any that I faced. Skarmory was amazing and I picked it up whenever it appeared, same with Flygon.
I thought I was done for when I got my mons in set 7, but the Granbull Intimidate lead was good and Double Edge was really strong. I picked up Starmie in battle 3 but opted to keep Milotic after seeing Entei in battle 5 for the extra bulk. I nearly lost on battle 41 to a Blissey after losing Granbull but Entei was able to Calm Mind 6 times and win.
Brandon had Nidoqueen with Tbolt, which caught my Milotic switch on turn 1 for 40%. I didn't want to lose Milotic so switch Entei in on the third Tbolt to knock Nidoqueen out with Flamethrower after a Surf. Curse Tyranitar was next, so I traded Granbull for a few Earthquakes and finished it off with Surf. Last mon was a Fake Out Psychic Reversal Medicham and a Calm Mind from Entei let me live Psychic from 50%, while not activating a potential Salac Berry to be able to Flamethrower for the win.
I lost the very next battle to a lead Venusaur that Sleep Powdered my whole team and swept ._.
After realising I got destroyed by Calm Mind Psychic types, such as Alakazam and Espeon, I bred myself a Metagross to replace Miltank. I just used three pokemon I liked and were good, with Metagross being able to cover a lot of types defensively. It also was there to explode on particularly hard to beat mons like Vaporeon or Zapdos.
I had a relatively simple run, I got to 49 wins and was debating breeding a Starmie for the rest but opted against it and didn't regret the decision. Milotics Recover helped me stall out a lot of pokemon with weak electric coverage. The gold symbol battle was slightly scary but ended up being fine. I earthquaked Raikou twice to KO as it set up Reflect, exploded on Latios after a Rock Slide chip (I was terrified of missing Explosion...) and used Brick Break to beat Snorlax. Milotic didn't even need to come out.
I lost on battle 81 to a Brightpowder Ursaring that OHKOd Heracross after dodging Brick Break, I then had to trade most of Milotics health to beat it which meant the follow up Claydol swept me with Earthquake :(
The general idea here was that Starmie and Heracross have good offensive synergy, while Metagross is a great defensive cover and can trade 1v1 with most pokemon. For a two pokemon battle Metagross was amazing at finishing off battles with Explosion once one of my other mons gained an advantage. I was able to do pretty well in the Dome, consistently getting to tournament 8 at least. In fact, before getting the gold symbol I had 37, 36, 37 and 39 battle runs which was infuriating.
The gold symbol fight was actually really hard to map out. Heracross could beat Latias and is able to 1v1 Metagross, but Quick Claw screws that up (as happened the first time I faced Tucker). It could also 1v1 Swampert but obviously couldn't do all three. Metagross could beat Latias and trade with Swampert, but was slower than Tucker's Metagross and thus lost to it. I eventually decided that Metagross lead was best, just exploding on the lead and hoping Heracross hit enough Megahorns to win. Both fights I exploded on Swampert and got hit by a Quick Claw from Metagross. The first time it was enough to KO Heracross, the second time it lived Meteor Mash on 6 hp to get the second Megahorn and win.
I then lost in the semi finals of the 11th tournament to a Grumpig with the elemental punches. Can't remember what the other mon was.
I completed this on my second try which was shocking because I expected this to be the hardest to beat. The first I used Milotic which was a huge mistake because Modest nature is dreadful for the Palace. I lost on battle 41 because a my Heracross got an incapable message (not unlikely at all, ~32% chance) vs Snorlax into my Metagross choosing Explosion on the 5% Snorlax. I then saw Blissey next with only Milotic left and knew I'd lost. I actually beat Blissey in a Struggle war but of course the third pokemon (ironically, a Typhlosion) just attacked a few times and won.
After thinking about my team a bit more, I put Protect on Metagross to keep it reasonably safe if the Brave nature didn't pick an attack, used a Hasty Starmie I kept from breeding for the Modest one with Double Team + Brightpowder to cheese Suicune and potentially Slaking in the gold symbol fight, and just risked it with Heracross. The run was quite simple - being able to switch meant I was able to mitigate most of the bad turns I had with just having the right typing out. The brain fight wasn't bad either, I OHKOd Arcanine after taking an Espeed, had to play carefully around Slaking, and managed to dodge a Shadow Ball with Starmie because I had Double Teamed, then Starmie dodged about 5 moves from Suicune (I was really nervous because it kept clicking Double Team up to +5 ._.)
This was a surprisingly hard facility to get the hang of. Between needing to sequence my pokemon properly (I think I got there in the end with Heracross Starmie and Metagross), struggling with Choice Band on Heracross and Explosion on Metagross, and understanding the judge decisions, I lost a lot of times before completing this facility. I found that by leading with Heracross I could often take a KO, but then might find myself walled by the follow up or risk missing (Brick Break and EQ are the accurate moves but also the ones with immunities). The order covered fire/flying type leads that Heracross might lose to without losing to a 3rd mon Blissey. I couldn't remove Explosion because it was a one time tutor, but messed around with Sludge Bomb for coverage and items to get CB of Heracross. King's Rock and Quick Claw just gave me more chances to hax, which is what most of the items in this game are geared towards.
The winning run was actually not so bad until battle 54 and 55. In 54, I lose Heracross to a Psychic Twave Confuse Ray Misdreavus and then the judges decision is a tie with Starmie. Xatu next - it confuses Metagross and I hit myself once before KOing with Meteor Mash. The last is Hypno and I celebrate as I'm able to get two attacks off and edge it out.
In 55, Flareon leads and Quick Claw Overheats my Heracross. Starmie revenge KOs but then Jolteon comes out to revenge me back. Metagross takes a Tbolt to KO Jolteon and I assume I've lost to Vaporeon last when its turns out to be Espeon. I think I have lost when it Reflects on my Earthquake because Metagross is in range of two Bites but I get a huge Quick Claw activation on the 3rd turn of the battle to KO and take a literal nailbiter.
The brain fight was stupidly easy, Heracross misses a Megahorn but gets the second off to put Umbreon in range of Starmie. Psychic then OHKOs Breloom and Gengar. I get one more win off (almost getting swept by a shiny Vaporeon) before losing to the Arena CT. Typhlosion lead outspeeds and OHKOs Heracross, Sceptile second outspeeds and OHKOs Starmie, Charizard third KOs Metagross.
I HATE THE BATTLE PYRAMID. It is by far my least favourite facility because it takes so long and its so easy to lose deep into runs. This facility took me 2 weeks on its own and I nearly lost motivation to finish it after one of my runs. The Choice Band is so essential to getting through the Pyramid because of the increase to the range of wild mons you can OHKO with Heracross (or Slaking), but its so hard to find one - it took me 11 runs through before I got one, each time using a Pickup mon. The first time I do get one, I get to 138 floors. Shell Bell was an incredible item too, being able to save on Hyper Potions and being stronger than Leftovers because 90% of battles last one turn. I was constantly low on Revives, and gave one up stupidly to a Perish Trap Murkrow on set 6, but sets 8-10 were all really good and I used one between all of them.
My strategy was to use Starmie + Heracross + Pickup mon for sets 1-3 to grind items, then move to Metagross after. I gave Teleport strategies a go too. I actually managed to catch a Timid 30 IV Abra from the wild. Kadabra was ok for set 4 but otherwise I found that if I ever ran into a trainer I was either sacking Kadabra and wasting Revives or switching to an actual mon and getting chunked. Just using Metagross gave me so much more stability that I dropped the Teleport strategy eventually.
I started to get really good at navigating the floors, by using the Pyramid floors post in this thread. That paired with actually KOing wild mons to light up the floor made my navigation a lot easier. However, the completely open plan floors were always extremely scary. I ran my luck close at times trying to conserve Revives on floors 7s to try and make it to the warp point but I was generally ok. Once I stabilised on set 10, the next 68 floors up to my loss were quite easy. I rarely used Revives and was OHKOing almost every single wild pokemon with the right lead.
With a Choice Band Heracross, the gold symbol fight wasn't too hard. I recorded my win for posterity, but long story short was that I Rock Slide OHKO Articuno, explode on Zapdos reading around Detect (I was Lum Berry to avoid Thunder para), and just hit either a Surf or Rock Slide on Moltres. My loss was to a Careful DD Rest Gyarados, I expected Starmie to OHKO with Tbolt but it didn't and 2 DDs later I get swept completely. I still had Revives left but just ran out of time to use them because all my mons got OHKOd by the Return EQ combo.
I'm not sure what's next for me in this game. I sunk a lot of time into it and now I don't know if I can bear going through certain facilities again for better records. I might try for a better Tower run with Starmie over Milotic but otherwise I think I'm done. I also saw 4 shinies during my time in the frontier, but none while grinding...
I picked up my Emerald cart about 2 months ago and have now finally got all the gold symbols! It's something that seemed so impossible as a child so it felt really good to do it - took me over 200 hours though...
Since my cart was second hand and I didn't restart, I was missing a few key things for my run:
A lot of useful TMs had been used. Shadow Ball, Toxic, Earthquake and all gym leader TMs were gone
With Earthquake being absolutely vital to a lot of mons' viability in gen 3, I had to grind Pickup for about 3 days to get a TM (thank god you actually could get another)
For anyone that doesn't know, a level 91 Pickup mon has a 1/100 chance to get a TM26 as its item, which only happens 10% of the time after you win a battle... I had 5 Linoones but it was still a horrible task
A few nice pokemon were simply unaccessible, specifically the Latis (it seems the original owner caught Latios and took it with him into gen 4) and Swampert. Anything that required trading like Blissey was also unavailable
Some items were also very hard to obtain/just impossible, like Shell Bell, Macho Brace (who knows where that went...) and berries. Thankfully most of the daily berry events hadn't been used up before the clock died so I got a Lum Berry and a beauty berry for Milotic
Grinding for mons took a huge amount of time, and I only ended up doing 5. Having to fight 300 pokemon to fully EV train (after vitamins), finding a Feebas tile, grinding Pickup for ages and just breeding the pokemon probably took close to 50 hours. I didn't bother with IVs to save my sanity, I figured that a good nature and proper EVs would be the majority of the stat variance and accepted the first good nature I got. It did mean some of my abilities were bad, Illuminate Starmie and Swarm Heracross to be specific, but for the most part a Lum Berry solved any real issues they posed.
I am slightly fuzzy on some of the details during my runs, especially the paths to the brains, but I'll do my best to recall them and give my thoughts on each facility. Ordered in terms of completion.
Battle Pike Open Level - Level 60 (191 rooms)
Miltank @ Lum Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 60
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 18 HP / 5 Atk / 4 Def / 0 SpA / 7 SpD / 5 Spe
- Thunder Wave
- Body Slam
- Milk Drink
- Heal Bell
Yeah... this team was something I thought was broken but in reality sucked. The idea was to Twave spam with Miltank and use Milotic and Heracross to break teams. I had no BP at this point so went to the Pike to grind - hence the Heracross moves and lack of item. Miltank was actually quite useful with Milk Drink and Heal Bell. I also didn't have another move to put on Milotic so Safeguard was kept.
I always went for rooms with nostalgia or sensing pokemon, as they were likely to not give me tough trainer battles. I could easily heal off any status conditions with Heal Bell. The gold symbol fight was super lucky - Lucy's Gyarados went for 5 Dragon Dances and started resting and all I could do was Strength with Heracross. This went on for about 10 turns before I got a huge crit and was able to clean up from there.
My loss was a double battle where the opponent had Entei and Latias, I had taken a few hits earlier because I was having a rough run of facing trainers and Latias was the final nail in the coffin.
This is a reasonably easy facility to grind BP for and get a quick symbol. It scales quite quickly and you can go through sets of 7 without facing any battles.
This is my favourite facility and having lost so many times its where I learnt about some of the battling mechanics of the game and general frontier sets. By the time I got to this run I had had three 28+ runs in a row that had failed, with one loss actually against the brain.
I don't remember my first 4 sets of pokemon but my last three were:
I ran through sets 5 and 6 easily without having to switch mons, set 5 was surprising because of the fire weakness but Breloom outsped any that I faced. Skarmory was amazing and I picked it up whenever it appeared, same with Flygon.
I thought I was done for when I got my mons in set 7, but the Granbull Intimidate lead was good and Double Edge was really strong. I picked up Starmie in battle 3 but opted to keep Milotic after seeing Entei in battle 5 for the extra bulk. I nearly lost on battle 41 to a Blissey after losing Granbull but Entei was able to Calm Mind 6 times and win.
Brandon had Nidoqueen with Tbolt, which caught my Milotic switch on turn 1 for 40%. I didn't want to lose Milotic so switch Entei in on the third Tbolt to knock Nidoqueen out with Flamethrower after a Surf. Curse Tyranitar was next, so I traded Granbull for a few Earthquakes and finished it off with Surf. Last mon was a Fake Out Psychic Reversal Medicham and a Calm Mind from Entei let me live Psychic from 50%, while not activating a potential Salac Berry to be able to Flamethrower for the win.
I lost the very next battle to a lead Venusaur that Sleep Powdered my whole team and swept ._.
After realising I got destroyed by Calm Mind Psychic types, such as Alakazam and Espeon, I bred myself a Metagross to replace Miltank. I just used three pokemon I liked and were good, with Metagross being able to cover a lot of types defensively. It also was there to explode on particularly hard to beat mons like Vaporeon or Zapdos.
I had a relatively simple run, I got to 49 wins and was debating breeding a Starmie for the rest but opted against it and didn't regret the decision. Milotics Recover helped me stall out a lot of pokemon with weak electric coverage. The gold symbol battle was slightly scary but ended up being fine. I earthquaked Raikou twice to KO as it set up Reflect, exploded on Latios after a Rock Slide chip (I was terrified of missing Explosion...) and used Brick Break to beat Snorlax. Milotic didn't even need to come out.
I lost on battle 81 to a Brightpowder Ursaring that OHKOd Heracross after dodging Brick Break, I then had to trade most of Milotics health to beat it which meant the follow up Claydol swept me with Earthquake :(
The general idea here was that Starmie and Heracross have good offensive synergy, while Metagross is a great defensive cover and can trade 1v1 with most pokemon. For a two pokemon battle Metagross was amazing at finishing off battles with Explosion once one of my other mons gained an advantage. I was able to do pretty well in the Dome, consistently getting to tournament 8 at least. In fact, before getting the gold symbol I had 37, 36, 37 and 39 battle runs which was infuriating.
The gold symbol fight was actually really hard to map out. Heracross could beat Latias and is able to 1v1 Metagross, but Quick Claw screws that up (as happened the first time I faced Tucker). It could also 1v1 Swampert but obviously couldn't do all three. Metagross could beat Latias and trade with Swampert, but was slower than Tucker's Metagross and thus lost to it. I eventually decided that Metagross lead was best, just exploding on the lead and hoping Heracross hit enough Megahorns to win. Both fights I exploded on Swampert and got hit by a Quick Claw from Metagross. The first time it was enough to KO Heracross, the second time it lived Meteor Mash on 6 hp to get the second Megahorn and win.
I then lost in the semi finals of the 11th tournament to a Grumpig with the elemental punches. Can't remember what the other mon was.
I completed this on my second try which was shocking because I expected this to be the hardest to beat. The first I used Milotic which was a huge mistake because Modest nature is dreadful for the Palace. I lost on battle 41 because a my Heracross got an incapable message (not unlikely at all, ~32% chance) vs Snorlax into my Metagross choosing Explosion on the 5% Snorlax. I then saw Blissey next with only Milotic left and knew I'd lost. I actually beat Blissey in a Struggle war but of course the third pokemon (ironically, a Typhlosion) just attacked a few times and won.
After thinking about my team a bit more, I put Protect on Metagross to keep it reasonably safe if the Brave nature didn't pick an attack, used a Hasty Starmie I kept from breeding for the Modest one with Double Team + Brightpowder to cheese Suicune and potentially Slaking in the gold symbol fight, and just risked it with Heracross. The run was quite simple - being able to switch meant I was able to mitigate most of the bad turns I had with just having the right typing out. The brain fight wasn't bad either, I OHKOd Arcanine after taking an Espeed, had to play carefully around Slaking, and managed to dodge a Shadow Ball with Starmie because I had Double Teamed, then Starmie dodged about 5 moves from Suicune (I was really nervous because it kept clicking Double Team up to +5 ._.)
This was a surprisingly hard facility to get the hang of. Between needing to sequence my pokemon properly (I think I got there in the end with Heracross Starmie and Metagross), struggling with Choice Band on Heracross and Explosion on Metagross, and understanding the judge decisions, I lost a lot of times before completing this facility. I found that by leading with Heracross I could often take a KO, but then might find myself walled by the follow up or risk missing (Brick Break and EQ are the accurate moves but also the ones with immunities). The order covered fire/flying type leads that Heracross might lose to without losing to a 3rd mon Blissey. I couldn't remove Explosion because it was a one time tutor, but messed around with Sludge Bomb for coverage and items to get CB of Heracross. King's Rock and Quick Claw just gave me more chances to hax, which is what most of the items in this game are geared towards.
The winning run was actually not so bad until battle 54 and 55. In 54, I lose Heracross to a Psychic Twave Confuse Ray Misdreavus and then the judges decision is a tie with Starmie. Xatu next - it confuses Metagross and I hit myself once before KOing with Meteor Mash. The last is Hypno and I celebrate as I'm able to get two attacks off and edge it out.
In 55, Flareon leads and Quick Claw Overheats my Heracross. Starmie revenge KOs but then Jolteon comes out to revenge me back. Metagross takes a Tbolt to KO Jolteon and I assume I've lost to Vaporeon last when its turns out to be Espeon. I think I have lost when it Reflects on my Earthquake because Metagross is in range of two Bites but I get a huge Quick Claw activation on the 3rd turn of the battle to KO and take a literal nailbiter.
The brain fight was stupidly easy, Heracross misses a Megahorn but gets the second off to put Umbreon in range of Starmie. Psychic then OHKOs Breloom and Gengar. I get one more win off (almost getting swept by a shiny Vaporeon) before losing to the Arena CT. Typhlosion lead outspeeds and OHKOs Heracross, Sceptile second outspeeds and OHKOs Starmie, Charizard third KOs Metagross.
I HATE THE BATTLE PYRAMID. It is by far my least favourite facility because it takes so long and its so easy to lose deep into runs. This facility took me 2 weeks on its own and I nearly lost motivation to finish it after one of my runs. The Choice Band is so essential to getting through the Pyramid because of the increase to the range of wild mons you can OHKO with Heracross (or Slaking), but its so hard to find one - it took me 11 runs through before I got one, each time using a Pickup mon. The first time I do get one, I get to 138 floors. Shell Bell was an incredible item too, being able to save on Hyper Potions and being stronger than Leftovers because 90% of battles last one turn. I was constantly low on Revives, and gave one up stupidly to a Perish Trap Murkrow on set 6, but sets 8-10 were all really good and I used one between all of them.
My strategy was to use Starmie + Heracross + Pickup mon for sets 1-3 to grind items, then move to Metagross after. I gave Teleport strategies a go too. I actually managed to catch a Timid 30 IV Abra from the wild. Kadabra was ok for set 4 but otherwise I found that if I ever ran into a trainer I was either sacking Kadabra and wasting Revives or switching to an actual mon and getting chunked. Just using Metagross gave me so much more stability that I dropped the Teleport strategy eventually.
I started to get really good at navigating the floors, by using the Pyramid floors post in this thread. That paired with actually KOing wild mons to light up the floor made my navigation a lot easier. However, the completely open plan floors were always extremely scary. I ran my luck close at times trying to conserve Revives on floors 7s to try and make it to the warp point but I was generally ok. Once I stabilised on set 10, the next 68 floors up to my loss were quite easy. I rarely used Revives and was OHKOing almost every single wild pokemon with the right lead.
With a Choice Band Heracross, the gold symbol fight wasn't too hard. I recorded my win for posterity, but long story short was that I Rock Slide OHKO Articuno, explode on Zapdos reading around Detect (I was Lum Berry to avoid Thunder para), and just hit either a Surf or Rock Slide on Moltres. My loss was to a Careful DD Rest Gyarados, I expected Starmie to OHKO with Tbolt but it didn't and 2 DDs later I get swept completely. I still had Revives left but just ran out of time to use them because all my mons got OHKOd by the Return EQ combo.
I'm not sure what's next for me in this game. I sunk a lot of time into it and now I don't know if I can bear going through certain facilities again for better records. I might try for a better Tower run with Starmie over Milotic but otherwise I think I'm done. I also saw 4 shinies during my time in the frontier, but none while grinding...
Hey! Wasn't expecting to see you post here and was actually thinking about asking you for the teams you used and tips about your runs lol.
Congrats, this is an amazing achievement! Hopefully it will be my turn next, lost in Battle Tower at number 68 which really sucked. Will probably attempt the Pike first as well, the Heal Bell Milk Drink combo seems relevant for that facility and it does seem the easiest.
I would like to submit a Battle Pyramid streak for the leaderboard in Kommo-o's post.
Battle Pyramid
97 floors climbed
Open level (lv.60)
Cartridge, no emulator
Latias, Flygon & Milotic
This is the same team I used in my Battle Pike streak (link to post), Battle Dome streak (link to post), Battle Palace streak (link to post) and Battle Tower streak (link to post)... Along with some guest stars who joined for specific pyramid runs.
I kept the team description quite brief for my three team members. For more specific comments on their moveset and synergy as a team, check my Battle Tower post (link).
In the Battle Pyramid, Latias's speed is useful to flee from wild Pokemon if needed... And she can set up on or outright OHKO or 2HKO a lot of trainers's Pokemon.
Emerald the Flygon
Adamant, 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Speed
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Double-Edge
- Fly
Choice Banded Flygon is amazing, especially in the Battle Pyramid. After all, I can freely get locked into one move, since the opponents only have one Pokemon, and don't have a second or third Pokemon that might resist the move Flygon gets locked into. Many people use Slaking as a hit-and-run Pokemon in this facility. Flygon fulfills a similar role, just without Truant and with a different typing.
The great wall who can outstall almost anything that does not have STAB Thunder or Thunderbolt. Getting paralysed is a great way to boost Defense and to avoid being poisoned, which is vital in the Battle Pyramid.
The guest stars
Aside from Latias, Flygon and Milotic, who participated in almost every round, I had three Pokemon who participated in just one round to counter specific wild Pokemon, and a Linoone whose sole role was being a Pickup slave.
Fries II the Linoone
Hasty, no EV's, lv.25
- Strength
- Rock Smash
- Cut
- Dig
Linoone was there for the first two rounds, just to pick up some healing items and, most importantly, a Choice Band and Leftovers in round 2, the poison round. Since the wild Pokemon were easy to OHKO or wall with Flygon, being stuck with only two Pokemon capable of battling was not a big deal.
Linoone's nickname is based on Fries, the Linoone in Marriland's Pokemon Emerald nuzlocke (link). I named him Fries II, to imply that this is a son of Marriland's Linoone Fries.
??? the Ninetales
Modest, 4 HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Speed
- Flamethrower
- Sunny Day
- Attract
- Faint Attack
Ninetales was only used in round 3, with the wild fire Pokemon. After all, because of her Flash Fire ability, she is immune to fire. And she is okay at beating the trainers in that round, who don't use the strongest Pokemon yet in this round. She also made short work of Brandon's Regice for the silver symbol.
I know that Ninetales's moveset is not exactly competitive. However, that's okay. She was part of my in-game team. I bred her in my old Emerald file, sent the egg to LeafGreen, restarted Emerald, traded the egg to my current Emerald file and hatched her there. Then, I sent her to LeafGreen for EV training and traded her back, holding a Fire Stone. Then, I used her in-game, much earlier than you can actually catch Vulpix. I just wanted her to be strong, which is why I EV trained her. And I wanted her to have at least some coverage, so I chose Faint Attack over Hidden Power Dark for accuracy reasons. That way, I would not have to worry about annoying Sand Attack or Double Team users in-game.
Ninetales's nickname is not actually ???. She is named after my girlfriend, whose name I shall not disclose for privacy reasons.
La Glace the Lapras
Modest, 4 HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Speed
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
I specifically bred and trained a Lapras for round 8, with the wild ice Pokemon. He was easily capable of walling the wild Pokemon and OHKOing most of them with super effective moves. The EVs are more offensive than you might expect from a Lapras... But yeah, I wanted to outspeed the many trainers that invest little to no EVs in Speed. Lapras is not fast at all, but with EV investment, he can outspeed a lot of opponents and OHKO their Pokemon with super effective moves.
The nickname La Glace is based on Pryce's baby Lapras (Bulbapedia link) in the Pokemon manga. I don't read the manga, but I once read about this Lapras on Bulbapedia and burst out in tears. Back then, when reading about this, I looked up the manga online to read the part with this Lapras and just kept tearing up... And I also thought that they drew that baby Lapras in an adorable way, especially when he hatched from an egg. A small baby Lapras... Which reminded me of my Lapras plushie, which is the same size as my unevolved babies like Chikorita and Ledyba. So yeah, I thought La Glace was a good name for Lapras. I also have a Lapras with the same name in Crystal and in SoulSilver. As you probably figured out by now, Lapras is one of my favourite Pokemon.
Even without the manga, La Glace is a great name for a Lapras. After all, 'glace' means 'ice' in French.
LittleMiss the Misdreavus.
Modest, 4 HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Speed
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Thief
This Misdreavus was also part of my in-game team, just like Ninetales. And so, the moveset is not optimal, and was aimed at having in-game fun. However, she was great in round 8, with all the Explosion- and Selfdestruct-using wild Pokemon. Being immune to normal is an Arceus-send. Also, her Psychic comfortably OHKOs the wild Gengar in this round.
The nickname LittleMiss is based on Marina's Misdreavus Little Miss, in the anime (Bulbapedia link). Sadly, 'Little Miss' takes 11 characters, while a nickname can only be 10 characters. And so, I had to call her 'LittleMiss', without a space between 'Little' and 'Miss'.
THE STRATEGY
The strategy? Well, using Bulbapedia resources (link) to determine what moveset an opponent might have, of course... And of course Golden Blissey's Battle Pyramid floor guide (link).
In most rounds, I just used Latias, Flygon and Milotic. However, there were five exceptions:
- Linoone instead of Milotic in round 1 (wild electric Pokemon / paralysis)
- Linoone instead of Latias in round 2 (wild poison Pokemon / Toxic)
- Ninetales instead of Latias in round 3 (wild fire Pokemon / burn)
- Lapras instead of Latias in round 7 (wild ice Pokemon / freeze)
- Misdreavus instead of Latias in round 8 (wild Pokemon using Selfdestruct or Explosion)
In the early rounds, I tried to explore the full floor and collect items. I tried to kill some wild Pokemon, so I could see what I was doing. However, when the trainers started to get more difficult, I just tried to find the exit as soon as possible and get through the Pyramid as efficiently as I could.
PYRAMDID KING BRANDON
Flygon. Choice Band. Rock Slide. No explanation needed. Just watch the video.
If Flygon would have missed vs. Articuno, I would have been able to outstall Articuno with Milotic and revive Flygon to take out the other two birds. Luckily, Rock Slide did its job, OHKOing Articuno and Moltres and 2HKOing Zapdos.
THE END
This loss was entirely my own fault. I was doing round 14, with wild dark Pokemon, and I was on the last floor. Sadly, on the previous floor, Latias and Flygon died in a double battle against a Snorlax and Lapras. I only had Milotic left, who was damaged and had about 60% of his HP left. I could have easily healed Latias and Flygon with items, but I decided to look for the floor's exit and conserve healing items.
Then, I got ambushed by a trainer with a Golem, just when I saw the floor's exit. Since I did not beat any wild Pokemon or trainers on this floor yet, I did not see the trainer coming. Anyways, he sent out his Golem. Since I knew that Surf would easily OHKO any Golem, I did not look up Golem's moveset on Bulbapedia, which I should have. And so, I selected Surf, expecting to kill Golem and win the battle. Sadly, Golem's Quick Claw activated. The rocky opponent decided to go boom and use Explosion, defeating Milotic...
Of course the Quick Claw activating is unlucky, but this is 100% my own fault. I should have just used one of my 10 Revives on Flygon or Latias. I should have just looked up the opponent's moveset. Then, I would have known that Golem held a Quick Claw and knew Explosion, and would have revived Flygon. Then, this streak would still have been alive.
When I started doing the Battle Pyramid, my goal was to win the gold symbol. I achieved that goal, so I am relieved. However, I am not satisfied. After all, my streak ended after 97 floors, which sucks when you are so close to reaching 100 floors. Losing sucks, especially when you know that it is 100% your own fault and that you could have prevented this unnecessary loss. I was tired and sleepy, and thought that I could just get this battle over with by using Surf. If I ever attempt another Battle Pyramid streak, I will definitely not repeat this mistake. Then, I will definitely look up any moveset of any Pokemon, no matter how perfect my matchup seems to be and no matter how easy an opponent seems to be. And I will definitely play things extremely safe, avoiding any unnecessary risk. Losing one Revive would have been better than what happened now, losing my long winning streak...
I kept the team description quite brief for my three team members. For more specific comments on their moveset and synergy as a team, check my Battle Tower post (link).
The lead. Works very well in the Battle Arena. If you can set up Calm Mind once or maybe even twice against the opponent's lead, you are in a great position to win.
Emerald the Flygon
Adamant, 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Speed
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Double-Edge
- Fly
Risky. After all, being locked into one move is not easy. I deliberately chose to not have Flygon as my final Pokemon. After all, if the opponent has more than one Pokemon left, I do not want to be locked into Earthquake.
Usually, Latias and Flygon can finish most opponents. However, if they fail, Milotic can often win judgements by healing with Recover, and dishes out enough damage to outdamage many opponents. Even without heavy SAtk EV investment, Surf often does the job.
THE STRATEGY
The strategy? Well, using Bulbapedia (link) to determine what moveset an opponent might have, of course...
The order of the Pokemon? Well, Latias as a lead makes sense to me, because she can sweep full teams with Calm Mind. Then, if she fails, Flygon counters many special walls who are frailer on the physical side, and beats the steel types that Latias suffers against. Then, Milotic can handle the fellow dragons that Flygon cannot beat, or can win against bulky waters by judgement.
ARENA TYCOON GRETA
For the round of battles with Greta for the gold symbol, I changed the order of my team. In most of the challenges, I lead with Latias and use Flygon second. However, for this round of battles, I used Flygon as a lead and used Latias second.
Greta's team consists of Umbreon, Gengar and Breloom. My strategy was to lead with Flygon and 2HKO Umbreon with Earthquake, hoping that Flygon would not get confused and hit himself in confusion twice. Luckily, that did not happen and Flygon beat Umbreon.
Then, Greta sent out Gengar. I knew that Flygon would be locked into Earthquake vs. Gengar, and that he would either faint or lose by judgement. Of course, Gengar killed Flygon, which was planned.
Then, my strategy was to let Latias set up Calm Mind once vs. Gengar, and then kill both Gengar and Breloom. Thanks to the Lum Berry, setting up vs. Gengar was possible. Luckily, the strategy I planned worked out perfectly and Latias killed both Gengar and Breloom.
Milotic was useless in this battle. I knew that beforehand. After all, unless Greta would make stupid misplays, Milotic could never beat Breloom, who would outspeed him and use Spore. However, I still chose to have Milotic on my team and did not replace him for another Pokemon for the Greta round. After all, I needed Milotic against the regular trainers. And of course my strategy involved having Latias sweep both Gengar and Breloom, so I would not need Milotic vs. Greta.
THE END
Latias just fell short of OHKOing a Dewgong with Thunderbolt. Then, Sheer Cold happened.
Flygon killed Dewgong with Earthquake. Then, the opponent sent out Starmie, who outsped Flygon and OHKOed my dragonfly with Ice Beam.
Milotic was able to survive vs. Starmie, who used Thunderbolt. However, Milotic had to Recover twice and lost the judgement.
This is probably not the most optimal team for this facility. I mean, maybe reversing the order of the team would work better. Flygon counters the electric types that Milotic loses against, and Latias can outspeed almost anything and kill Ice Beam-using waters and dragons that Flygon struggles against.
However, I am happy with my streak. I won the gold symbol in a difficult facility, and that is what I wanted to do. This is not exactly a facility that I enjoy, so I will most likely not attempt another streak in this facility in the future. There are facilities in which I enjoy aiming for long, high streaks, but the Battle Arena is not one of those. I would rather try that in the Battle Tower, for example. Or my two favourite facilities, the Battle Pike and the Battle Dome.
Anyways, I have six of the seven gold symbols now. Which means I will have to challenge the dreaded Battle Factory now for the last gold symbol...
I've just got to 70 wins in the tower. Question about the rules though. I chose Latias as my roamer (which fixes its stats and nature) then later changed my decision with a save editor. I chose Latias as the roamer because I wanted it in my team, and at that point didn't know it was possible to get an Eon ticket via the Pomeg glitch.
So I used a save editor to swap the Southern Island encounter to be Latias and the roamer to be Latios, because I wanted to RNG manip the static Latias encounter.
Basically, the Latias I used isn't genned or hacked, I just used a save editor to change my decision about which Poke would be on Southern Island. So is my run eligible or what?
This can be imported into the "Import/Export" box at the bottom of damage calc. Now there's no need to guesstimate how much your moves and your opponents moves will do!
Please note that the level is set to 50, and all abilities are only the first ability (be wary of Pokemon with 2 abilities). The importer can also save only up to about 20-30 sets at a time, so please don't upload all 900+ sets all at once. I hope this helps!
This can be imported into the "Import/Export" box at the bottom of damage calc. Now there's no need to guesstimate how much your moves and your opponents moves will do!
Please note that the level is set to 50, and all abilities are only the first ability (be wary of Pokemon with 2 abilities). The importer can also save only up to about 20-30 sets at a time, so please don't upload all 900+ sets all at once. I hope this helps!
I have some good news for you, check out https://turskain.github.io/
For anyone wishing to upload custom sets to other versions of the damage calc though, I advise going to the github and downloading a copy. Within the files there is one called "Setdex" or more likely setdex_rse. You can change the sets directly here so there is no limit on how many and you can have a version permanently with those sets.
I have some good news for you, check out https://turskain.github.io/
For anyone wishing to upload custom sets to other versions of the damage calc though, I advise going to the github and downloading a copy. Within the files there is one called "Setdex" or more likely setdex_rse. You can change the sets directly here so there is no limit on how many and you can have a version permanently with those sets.
Do IVs matter for people who want only 100 wins (in a row) in Emerald's Battle Tower?
Is Milotic viable in the Battle Tower? If yes, what is its best nature? If no, why not?
A little bit late, but yes. Milotic is definitely a viable Water type. It has great defenses, a decent ability and two weaknesses being on its strongest defensive stat which means that it can even tank STAB Thunderbolts on a pinch. It just falls short of what Suicune is capable of doing because Suicune has Calm Mind which not only allows it to wall other Pokemon but also sweep on its own, which is what Milotic lacks. A Bold nature is pretty good if you don't have reliable Dragon Dancer checks for your team and Milotic's Special Attack is decent enough to run Ice Beam. You also got plenty of good options: Toxic lets Milotic beat other Water types that cannot damage it super-effectively and really useful. Mirror Coat allows Milotic to tank a Thunderbolt and retaliate back, which is useful to reflect back the damage from non-STAB Thunderbolts from the likes of the Lati@s. Calm is also an option if you wanna go this route because the extra Special Defense lets you reflect back more special attacks.
I've just got to 70 wins in the tower. Question about the rules though. I chose Latias as my roamer (which fixes its stats and nature) then later changed my decision with a save editor. I chose Latias as the roamer because I wanted it in my team, and at that point didn't know it was possible to get an Eon ticket via the Pomeg glitch.
So I used a save editor to swap the Southern Island encounter to be Latias and the roamer to be Latios, because I wanted to RNG manip the static Latias encounter.
Basically, the Latias I used isn't genned or hacked, I just used a save editor to change my decision about which Poke would be on Southern Island. So is my run eligible or what?
Apologies for the late response, but sadly I won't consider the Lati@s eligible since an external program is being used to modify your save. However, if you emulate the Ereader card and scan it on your game or do the RS Tower Glitch and RNG abuse a Timid Latios, I am fine with those since they are obtained within the boundaries of the game. Hope this clarifies any doubts!
