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Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records
- Thread starter Valentino23
- Start date
A combination of Toxic, Torment, Protect, Rest, Whirlwind has been proven here to be great on skarm. If not using torment you could always throw in an attacking move, possible even dropping protect aswell (I don't suggest though) Fly I have mixed feelings on cause 95 acc. Otherwise would be decent.
You achieve very little with Fly considering that Thunder bypasses the immunity turn (and hits Skarmory for double damage) and it is both weak and inaccurate. Taunt is a so much better option on Skarm because it actually has a decent Speed tier and it stops Marowak 3/4 from sweeping your team by using Swords Dance. If Armaldo 3 doesn't gets a QC activation on the turn it uses SD, it also stops him. Not to mention, you prevent Double Team stuff like Registeel from getting boosts any further. The moves are pretty customizable but for a standard, you will want to use: Toxic / Rest / Taunt or Whirlwind to get the best out of Skarmory. For the last slot, you can use moves like Counter, Torment, Drill Peck or even HP Steel depending on what you think Skarmory should cover there.
If you plan to pair it with Blissey, you need a partner who can stop mixed Fire types like Arcanine & Blaziken while providing insurance against Armaldo 3 and Marowak 3/4. I think I discussed this on the Discord one day, but CB Flygon / Skarm / Blissey can be a solid team. Flygon provides the much needed Rock immunity so that Skarmory doesn't gets overwhelmed and it acts as a potent offensive glue considering both Blissey's and Skarm's passiveness. Also, STAB Banded Earthquakes are incredibly good on this gen and Flygon has nothing to worry about his Ice and Dragon weaknesses with Blissey covering its back.
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Flygon is extremely good as third member.
Taunt on Skarmory is nice but unfortunately it lasts just few turns, so without a strong offensive presence (like CB Flygon is, ngl) foe will get evasion boosts as some point vs. passive teams (like IRIDESCENCE/Mount Sinai)
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Quick question, how have you EV trained your moltres? As far as I’m awake the only ones you can catch in Gen 3 are all level 50, and you’d have to level it up to get the stats to update? A bug to decrease your level? I must have missed something
In order for a Pokemon to gain EV points at Lv.50, you have to EV train it and then deposit it on the PC since EV gain, back then, only worked once you leveled up. However, by depositing into a PC, the game automatically updates the stats. This makes it possible to EV train Pokemon like Gales Articuno / Zapdos / Moltres, Colosseum Metagross and the Southern Island Lati@s, who are obtained at Lv.50, without leveling up.
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Wait, seriously? I never knew that, that’s pretty awesome
>Flamethrower pressure stall moltres
yes YES!
Anyways, what exaclty is the vaporeon set that works best with steelix? If you go wish you are gonna want protect, if you run vap you are also gonna want haze to beat set up. I know I keep making teams, its cause I cannot play my cart atm.
Anyways here is what I have ATM:
Latios @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 28 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dragon Claw
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
Steelix (M) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 20 SpD / 244 Spe
Impish Nature
- Roar / Earthquake
- Torment
- Rest
- Protect
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 1 HP / 1 Atk / 1 Def / 1 SpA / 1 SpD / 1 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Haze / toxic
- Wish
- Protect
I am really unsure. I am also thinking I can switch the whole lati set around since vaporeon hard walls water types if I run toxic. Lati w/ Psychic, ice beam, ???, calm mind. I can also do Banded steelix and run enough speed on vapreon to beat some ohko mons with sub but QC and or Walrein can still nuke me so it seems risky
On Latios, I would use Golden Blissey's EV spread. He made a detailed explanation here:
On Steelix, there's no point on using Roar if you're already using Haze on Vaporeon but if you really want to remove Curse users quickly, I'd recommend using Choice Band Steelix. One of its strongest selling points is that it is always able to OHKO 170 HP Metagross which means that you'll easily destroy it whenever it shows up and you only end up needing one Earthquake to OHKO. Your team will also appreciate the extra firepower since Steelix can also use Explosion if a set up sweeper gets too carried away with boosts. Really, the main selling point of using Steelix is to fire that STAB Earthquake to shut down all Electric types and since your team has Vaporeon as well, you really need that.
Finally, on Vaporeon, you can run Haze to deal with CM and DD users better and it is also a solid alternative rather than to just explode on things (without losing Steelix too early). For EVs, not sure if that was a typo but you will want to go on with this:
Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers
IVs: 0 Atk
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Def / 20 SpD
Ability: Water Absorb
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Surf
- Haze
Salamence 4 at +1 only has a ~30% chance to 2HKO which you can offset with Protect at some point and once you Haze its boosts away, Double Edge doesn't even comes close to a 3HKO. Pretty simple spread and CB Steelix heavily appreciates the Wish support since both can switch into each other's weaknesses with Steelix being immune to Electric and Vaporeon being immune to Water which grants you plenty of opportunities to pass successful Wishes.
IVs: 0 Atk
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Def / 20 SpD
Ability: Water Absorb
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Surf
- Haze
Salamence 4 at +1 only has a ~30% chance to 2HKO which you can offset with Protect at some point and once you Haze its boosts away, Double Edge doesn't even comes close to a 3HKO. Pretty simple spread and CB Steelix heavily appreciates the Wish support since both can switch into each other's weaknesses with Steelix being immune to Electric and Vaporeon being immune to Water which grants you plenty of opportunities to pass successful Wishes.
Hope it helps!
Haven’t seen anyone talking about Rhydon, I guess he isn’t too great? Amazing defenses on the physical side, the strongest EQ in the game (except marowak but I know he isn’t close to viable) two great abilities not to mention he can make fat substitutes? He’s painfully slow and gets one shot by anything special, but I’m considering giving him a shot. Maybe he’s just unreliable for long streaks?
Also, CB Ninjask? He’s actually got decent enough Attack for a choice band, and he outspeeds literally everything in the game. Silver Wind, HP Ground, Double Edge, Aerial Ace? I only ask because the Nincada line’s one of my favorite lines of pokemon, but it could have a niche in the pyramid? Even swap a move out for Protect so I can Protect > SS > Flee? He probably still wouldn’t hit hard enough, but I’d have to run damage calcs.
How does Baton Pass do? I’m sure someone has already given it a shot and failed, but there’s only one pokemon in the entire facility that uses Haze, so if you passed to a Cradily wouldn’t he be practically unstoppable? He even gets Recover
EDIT: Also, why does confusion always last one turn for my opponent and 6 for me? Does the hax actually favor the AI? I’ve played BF for over 100 hours and I can’t recall anytime that my opponent’s stayed asleep for more than 2 turns.
Also, CB Ninjask? He’s actually got decent enough Attack for a choice band, and he outspeeds literally everything in the game. Silver Wind, HP Ground, Double Edge, Aerial Ace? I only ask because the Nincada line’s one of my favorite lines of pokemon, but it could have a niche in the pyramid? Even swap a move out for Protect so I can Protect > SS > Flee? He probably still wouldn’t hit hard enough, but I’d have to run damage calcs.
How does Baton Pass do? I’m sure someone has already given it a shot and failed, but there’s only one pokemon in the entire facility that uses Haze, so if you passed to a Cradily wouldn’t he be practically unstoppable? He even gets Recover
EDIT: Also, why does confusion always last one turn for my opponent and 6 for me? Does the hax actually favor the AI? I’ve played BF for over 100 hours and I can’t recall anytime that my opponent’s stayed asleep for more than 2 turns.
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Rhydon is simply too slow to be successful. Having a x4 weakness to Grass, and most importantly, Water (There's even dedicated Trainer classes that favor Water types) makes it a very inferior Pokemon to use for Singles.
Not sure how Ninjask could play out. I personally believe Scyther could outperform it if you're looking for that niche since it has access to almost the same moveset but with better bulk.
There's someone who pulled it out and Actaeon created possibly the best Baton Pass team in Gen III by using Alakazam, Zapdos and Tyranitar. You can read his team write up and how great it performs on this generation. He also describes briefly plenty of different scenarios on how to play it.
Regarding Cradily, it doesn't have enough power to guarantee a sweep and it's too slow to even take advantage of Speed boosts. Roar and Haze are non-issues if you have enough power to KO the Pokemon who use those moves.
The AI doesn't cheats. It's just pure luck. Nothing else to add here.
An opponent with 3 Rock Slide users may be a problem for a Fire/Flying Type Pokémon alone, OR MAYBE NOT.
Since I think it'll be THE trend for next record streaks, I want to share my PP stall Moltres set.
As I keep saying, it's the best lead and arguably the single most dominant Pokémon in the Battle Tower, able to badly defeat every foe and carrying just few weaknesses, very easy to cover for a defensive team.
Here it is the set:
Moltres @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 52 Def / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Protect
Quick set explanation:
Leftovers is a must, since it lets Moltres effectively stall for a whole match granting passive recover.
220 HP EVs lets it reach 193 HP (needed Leftovers number, divisible by 16+1).
Timid Nature with 236 Spe EVs makes Moltres sit at 154 speedtier, outspeeding neutral nature 255 EVs 100 BST Speed group.
52 Def EVs are here for a boost on its Physical Defense, since most of the hits it is supposed to tank and switch on are Physical. This investment paired with Burn halving foes' Atk makes Moltres surprisingly bulky.
Substitute and Protect are mandatory on almost every PP staller, capitalizing on Pressure and Leftovers recovery. In fact, Moltres can drain 30 PPs (!) from a slower foe just switching between these two moves.
Morning Sun is the perfect icing on the cake. Moltres is the only Pressure user with a reliable recovery move available in the Tower (outside of Rest) and this is what renders it the perfect stalling machine, combined with its unexpected natural bulk and useful typing (it resists Fighting and is immune to Ground, main issues for Gen3 defensive cores).
The last move I chose is Will-O-Wisp for a lot of reasons. Toxic accuracy is better, but is a subpar option overall because it's way better to hit dangerous Steel types (like Metagross or Registeel 5) and all of the Poison types, whereas Fire types (immune to W-o-W) are not a threat at all. Moreover, the reduced Atk from Burn and the slow damage it inflicts are perfect for Blissey to effectively set-up on almost every foe, while thanks to this status Steelix becomes untouchable from Physical side even by STAB super effective hits.
As said before, accuracy doesn't matter because usually Moltres waits until it's safe to spam status and then it can afford more than one shot to hit (in the video above, it misses in almost every tough situation, but it's not an issue as shown).
W-o-W it's also an effective answer to Leftovers Double-Team spammers, since most of them (Snorlax 1, Crobat 3, Registeel 5) are immune to Toxic and I must prevent them to cause an infinite battle (because in this Gen they recover struggling damages with Leftovers and at +6 evasion Seismic Toss - my only damaging move - isn't able to take them down).
The only real problem for this Moltres is its rarity, since RNG a good one on XD is very difficult and Morning Sun / W-o-W are exclusive moves from that game.
Come on, Moltres train has almost left the station, EVERYBODY HURRY UP!
I also want to add that Kommo-o is now trying a similar PP stalling Moltres with 52 SpA EVs (without Def investment) and Flamethrower over W-o-W in a more offensive team, with similar teammates synergies and great results too.
Since I think it'll be THE trend for next record streaks, I want to share my PP stall Moltres set.
As I keep saying, it's the best lead and arguably the single most dominant Pokémon in the Battle Tower, able to badly defeat every foe and carrying just few weaknesses, very easy to cover for a defensive team.
Here it is the set:
Moltres @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 52 Def / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Protect
Quick set explanation:
Leftovers is a must, since it lets Moltres effectively stall for a whole match granting passive recover.
220 HP EVs lets it reach 193 HP (needed Leftovers number, divisible by 16+1).
Timid Nature with 236 Spe EVs makes Moltres sit at 154 speedtier, outspeeding neutral nature 255 EVs 100 BST Speed group.
52 Def EVs are here for a boost on its Physical Defense, since most of the hits it is supposed to tank and switch on are Physical. This investment paired with Burn halving foes' Atk makes Moltres surprisingly bulky.
Substitute and Protect are mandatory on almost every PP staller, capitalizing on Pressure and Leftovers recovery. In fact, Moltres can drain 30 PPs (!) from a slower foe just switching between these two moves.
Morning Sun is the perfect icing on the cake. Moltres is the only Pressure user with a reliable recovery move available in the Tower (outside of Rest) and this is what renders it the perfect stalling machine, combined with its unexpected natural bulk and useful typing (it resists Fighting and is immune to Ground, main issues for Gen3 defensive cores).
The last move I chose is Will-O-Wisp for a lot of reasons. Toxic accuracy is better, but is a subpar option overall because it's way better to hit dangerous Steel types (like Metagross or Registeel 5) and all of the Poison types, whereas Fire types (immune to W-o-W) are not a threat at all. Moreover, the reduced Atk from Burn and the slow damage it inflicts are perfect for Blissey to effectively set-up on almost every foe, while thanks to this status Steelix becomes untouchable from Physical side even by STAB super effective hits.
As said before, accuracy doesn't matter because usually Moltres waits until it's safe to spam status and then it can afford more than one shot to hit (in the video above, it misses in almost every tough situation, but it's not an issue as shown).
W-o-W it's also an effective answer to Leftovers Double-Team spammers, since most of them (Snorlax 1, Crobat 3, Registeel 5) are immune to Toxic and I must prevent them to cause an infinite battle (because in this Gen they recover struggling damages with Leftovers and at +6 evasion Seismic Toss - my only damaging move - isn't able to take them down).
The only real problem for this Moltres is its rarity, since RNG a good one on XD is very difficult and Morning Sun / W-o-W are exclusive moves from that game.
Mount Sinai
Mannequin (Moltres) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 52 Def / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Protect
Rotten (Steelix) (M) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 20 SpD / 244 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Rest
- Roar
- Torment
Ugly (Blissey) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 244 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Defense Curl / Minimize
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
Mannequin (Moltres) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 52 Def / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Protect
Rotten (Steelix) (M) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 20 SpD / 244 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Rest
- Roar
- Torment
Ugly (Blissey) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 244 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Defense Curl / Minimize
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
Come on, Moltres train has almost left the station, EVERYBODY HURRY UP!
I also want to add that Kommo-o is now trying a similar PP stalling Moltres with 52 SpA EVs (without Def investment) and Flamethrower over W-o-W in a more offensive team, with similar teammates synergies and great results too.
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I’ve got some rotten luck then. 11 confusion hits in a row.
Ninjask I was planning to use in the pyramid and use his speed to flee battles, but I’ll have to double check to make sure fleeing isn’t more difficult in pyramid
Yup, luck is the literal reason why teams are the way they are. Murphys law, if there is a way you can lose, even if its a small fraction, eventually it will happen. That is why teams are built around minimizing risk (and blissey jajaja ^.^) Anyways I wish you good luck on your streak
What kind of pokemon perform well in final 1v1 scenarios? I’m thinking about trying my hand at an Explosion team for my battle tower attempt. I’ve seen Moltres performing well lately in dire situations, and it slots perfectly with the rest of my team being Metagross / Snorlax, but I feel as though I’d be weak on the special side. I can work a set in a few hours, but I’m looking for alternatives to run. Most likely something that stall PP, maybe a Perish Song user (if that doesn’t make me autolose, but I don’t think it does).
If you end a match with a move that also requires your last Pokémon to faint - like Explosion, Self-Destruct, Destiny Bond, Perish Song -, you'll automatically lose the game
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I thought Perish Song specifically didn’t result in that? I understand thank you
CROSSFIRE HURRICANE SPECIAL
Includes PP stalling duwangs
Hey everyone, today I would like to share a new team that personally I have been testing lately and I've been really excited of its performance overall. This is probably the best team I have ever run on Gen III and it is just as good as Team Azure is. However, this team has a much more defensive nature compared to Azure's fast paced and offensive nature. Just as Adedede, I've become addicted to Moltres but there is a good reason why both of us have been so successful on using it and it's so good that I even ditched my old Gengar team in favor of it.Includes PP stalling duwangs
Avdol (Moltres) @ Leftovers
IVs: 4 Atk / 30 Def
EVs: 220 HP / 54 SpA / 236 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Morning Sun
- Flamethrower
Many people usually brush off Moltres as a very inferior Pokemon due to its x4 weakness to Rock. However, I personally believe this is the generation where Moltres can actually shine due to its unique moveset and useful combination of resistances in this Generation. Moltres is pretty bulky (90/90/85), despite being considered mostly as an offensive Pokemon, and it has some nice resistances to Fire, Steel, Fighting, Grass, Bug and an immunity to Ground granting it plenty of opportunities to switch when it isn't leading. What makes this set shine is the combination of Pressure and with Substitute + Protect, Moltres can drain 30 PPs (!) from a slower foe just switching between these two moves. Substitute is the most broken move in Generation III and it shields Moltres from stat drops and status conditions. With Substitute, Moltres becomes immune to Thunder Wave and Toxic, two moves that would otherwise jeopardize Moltres' stalling ability while being able to attack safely from behind or recover its lost HP. In Generation III, Moltres is the only Pokemon with Pressure that has a 50% recovery move (outside Mewtwo, who can't participate on the Battle Frontier) and despite its lower PP compared to Recover, it is quite reliable. Morning Sun has only 8 PP but Moltres makes good use of it as it allows it to recover lost HP where otherwise just alternating between Protect and Substitute is not enough. This move is what makes Moltres a really broken mon in Frontier as it can indiscriminately PP drain the opponent's attacks while setting up more Substitutes than what Protect would do otherwise. Also, due to Moltres being at Lv.50, it doesn't have to worry about Tyranitar coming in with its permanent Sand and ruin Morning Sun's recovery rate, which is a huge bonus. Finally for the last slot, while Adedede has found success using Toxic, I don't like the idea of Moltres being a sitting duck against Steel types specially considering that they should be cowering in fear with their tail between their legs against you. The main reason why I opted for Flamethrower is because it allows Moltres to do reliable damage and hit Steel types like Metagross and Registeel for super-effective damage. Flamethrower also comes with the benefit of being 24 PP total when maxed which means that Moltres can simply spam Flamethrower on situations where you will want to conserve Substitute's and Protect's PP.
The EVs are pretty simple: 220 HP allows Moltres to reach 193 HP which is a magic leftovers number (divisible by 16 +1) and Moltres will regain the lost HP from a single Substitute in 4 turns. 236 Spe with a Timid nature allows Moltres to outspeed neutral base 100s like Salamence, Charizard, Zapdos, Flygon, etc and set up first before they hit you with their moves. This also helps in some way since Moltres is not exaggeratedly fast on situations against Pokemon like Starmie 3 where if Moltres was able to conserve its Substitute after KO-ing an opponent, you can also PP drain faster mons on situations like these. The rest of the EVs go into SpA in order to give a little bit of power to Moltres' Flamethrower.
Whitesnake (Metagross) @ Choice Band
IVs: 7 SpA / 30 SpD
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 94 Spe
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Adamant Nature
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Steel]
I have pretty much explained how Metagross works on my previous posts and it is simply the best Steel type and Choice Band user in Gen III. I don't think I need to go deep into how Metagross works, but what makes this team effective is the synergy between Metagross and Moltres as the lava bird is immune to Ground and resists Fire while Metagross takes care of its Rock weakness, which is Moltres' biggest flaw. Explosion takes care of the Curse users that are too dangerous for Moltres to handle, like Snorlax. Earthquake is for opposing Steel and Fire types. Shadow Ball for Lati@s, Dusclops and other Psychics. Finally, HP Steel is the used STAB for its 100 accuracy outside evasion boosts/items and it demolishes Armaldo 3/4.
On Metagross' case less Speed is used since Moltres does pretty well on handling Registeel 5 and Metagross 3. As a result, I can drop the Speed EVs to 94 which allows Metagross to outspeed all Milotic sets as a minimum. Max Attack for maximum damage output and the rest goes into HP for extra bulk which Metagross appreciates when facing against Gardevoir & Alakazam if they carry Fire Punch.
Yuno (Blissey) (F) @ Lum Berry
IVs: 4 Atk
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Def / 168 SpD / 84 Spe
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Bold Nature
- Growl
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
While I had fun testing on my previous runs using Sub Minimize Blissey, I felt it was too underwhelming on this generation compared to what it was able to pull off as a Chansey on the Maison / Tree metagame. Due to this, I decided to follow up with another set that found similar success inspired by VaporeonIce's feats on his team. Growl Blissey is amazing and in my personal opinion, it outclasses Sub Minimize on many ways: Growl can check Curse & Dragon Dance users with a single move which has 64 PPs total when maxed and it is easily a very spammable move when stalling. Blissey doesn't has to worry about Exploud being immune to Growl as Moltres covers him pretty well and with Swords Dance users being uncommon in Gen 3, Blissey doesn't have to worry about being overwhelmed. With Toxic, many Pokemon unable to break past Blissey's defenses will start falling like flies. The more I started using this set, the more I have enjoyed its performance up to a point where in one of my battles vs Gyarados 4 (DD + Rest bulky Gyarados) I was able to stall it out completely and poison it once it ran out of Rest PPs and I still had plenty more PPs to spare against whatever came next. Soft-boiled is the obvious recovery move that Blissey needs to regain its health and keep doing what it knows best. Finally, Seismic Toss is the last move as it allows Blissey to deal consistent damage or rack it up with the poisoning, which is useful against Calm Mind users.
Max Defense is used to make Blissey as physically bulky as possible allowing her to take physical hits most of the time. With Growl attack reductions, Blissey becomes quite a frightening pseudo-mixed wall capable of handling threats from both sides. Because this Blissey is vulnerable to OHKO attacks, 84 Spe EVs are used to outspeed min Speed Lapras and Walrein allowing you to land a poison first, if needed, before they use their hax moves. 6 HP EVs are used to make its HP odd and improve its Leech Seed / Toxic rolls while the rest is dumped into SpD to make Blissey even more bulky from its special side which is helpful when Blissey has to eat Sunny Day boosted Fire Blasts or Rain boosted Hydro Pumps. Because Moltres benefits much more from Leftovers, a Lum Berry is used which is quite useful vs Jynx and it cures unlucky burns, poison or paralysis from attacks.
With Moltres resisting Blissey's Fighting weakness and immune to Metagross' Ground weakness, Metagross resisting Moltres' x4 weakness to Rock and Blissey eating the Fire attacks aimed at Metagross while taking the Water & Electric moves aimed at Moltres, this teams works heavily on relying in their team members' defensive synergy. The team's main selling point is to PP stall a threat with Moltres when needed and sweep with Flamethrower damage while buttering through the opponent's team. Thanks to Moltres being immune to Ground and Metagross resisting Rock, swap stalling is completely possible to drain PPs from SlideQuake coverage on Pokemon like Machamp, Hariyama, Aerodactly and even Haxdon!
Moltres will pretty much stall most stuff by itself by just alternating between Substitute and Protect as Pressure drains the foe's PPs. For the threats that Moltres can't handle itself like Starmie 3, Slowbro or Raikou 2, this is where Blissey jumps in as she is able to pretty much beat any special attackers that want to exploit Moltres' weaknesses and nail them down with Toxic. For the Rock types who can destroy Moltres and hit Blissey hard, Metagross comes in and fires out powerful Banded attacks that will nail the opponent's Pokemon and provide the needed offensive pressure.
Moltres will pretty much stall most stuff by itself by just alternating between Substitute and Protect as Pressure drains the foe's PPs. For the threats that Moltres can't handle itself like Starmie 3, Slowbro or Raikou 2, this is where Blissey jumps in as she is able to pretty much beat any special attackers that want to exploit Moltres' weaknesses and nail them down with Toxic. For the Rock types who can destroy Moltres and hit Blissey hard, Metagross comes in and fires out powerful Banded attacks that will nail the opponent's Pokemon and provide the needed offensive pressure.
There's no better way to explain Crossfire Hurricane Special's power than a watchlist showcasing how the team works rather than putting it into words.
- : Set 4 is the most dangerous one due to its sheer bulk and power being 252 HP / 252 Atk and Brightpowder makes things overall worse. Swap stalling is not even reliable as Metagross doesn't have a way to recover HP and it gets shipped down by boosted Double Edge / Aerial Ace. The best way to deal with it is simply by switching into Blissey and then Growl with the hope that a +1 DE will not be a CH, then let it be finished off by the recoil or by Moltres / Metagross if there is any HP left. It always hurts whenever it decides to Double Edge instead though.
- : Set 2 is pretty dangerous due to Quick Claw and the risk of Explosion. Metagross can't even OHKO with HP Steel and it gets destroyed by Counter. Also, due to Clear Body, Blissey can't weaken it. I usually swap stall Rock Slide + EQ, but you never know when it can use Explosion which can fuck me up badly.
- : Set 1/2/7/8 are bad matchups since 3 of these sets have EQ which hits Metagross super-effectively while you never want Moltres to take damage from Double Edge. Critical Hits from these monsters are always bad news.
- : Set 3 is a huge threat due to Quick Claw Fissure and Sheer Cold while having Surf being capable of breaking Moltres' Substitute. If Set 3 is found out, I usually don't waste time and just explode.
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First of all, good luck to Kommo-o
Let's make that Moltres shine.
Secondly, I want ro report an update on IRIDESCENCE, while I've also decided to continue the streak after my Moltres infatuation.
I was searching for an answer to dangerous Male Attract users, since Blissey and Latias are locked to Female.
If Machamp7/Breloom3/Espeon4 manage to overcome Skarmory with a bit of hax (a CH in a crucial turn is sadly enough), Latias can't reliably check them because of infatuation.
Latias needed to be Male, had heavy SpAtk investment and a lot of useless SpDef. I know, the answer was so easy I feel dumb.
So I put Latios in Latias' spot (yes, he covers better even bulky set-up sweeper role)
This is the set, in which he completely outperforms Latias, showing better Physical bulk -113 Def vs. 112-, better SpAtk -151 vs. 143- and most of all is Male!
Latios @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 172 HP / 100 Def / 4 SpA / 12 SpD / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Recover
- Dragon Claw
These are some blessed calcs:
252+ Atk Machamp Focus Punch vs. 172 HP / 100 Def Latios: 74-88 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 172 HP / 12 SpD Latios: 149-176 (84.1 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Armaldo Rock Slide vs. 172 HP / 100 Def Latios: 73-87 (41.2 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Latios Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Marowak: 69-82 (51.1 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 4 SpA Latios Dragon Claw vs. 170 HP / 170+ SpD Registeel: 65-77 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I feel very confident, IRIDESCENCE 2.0 is seriously close to perfection and I badly want to hit that 2K benchmark
Let's make that Moltres shine.
Secondly, I want ro report an update on IRIDESCENCE, while I've also decided to continue the streak after my Moltres infatuation.
I was searching for an answer to dangerous Male Attract users, since Blissey and Latias are locked to Female.
If Machamp7/Breloom3/Espeon4 manage to overcome Skarmory with a bit of hax (a CH in a crucial turn is sadly enough), Latias can't reliably check them because of infatuation.
Latias needed to be Male, had heavy SpAtk investment and a lot of useless SpDef. I know, the answer was so easy I feel dumb.
So I put Latios in Latias' spot (yes, he covers better even bulky set-up sweeper role)
This is the set, in which he completely outperforms Latias, showing better Physical bulk -113 Def vs. 112-, better SpAtk -151 vs. 143- and most of all is Male!
Latios @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 172 HP / 100 Def / 4 SpA / 12 SpD / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Recover
- Dragon Claw
These are some blessed calcs:
252+ Atk Machamp Focus Punch vs. 172 HP / 100 Def Latios: 74-88 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 172 HP / 12 SpD Latios: 149-176 (84.1 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Armaldo Rock Slide vs. 172 HP / 100 Def Latios: 73-87 (41.2 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Latios Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Marowak: 69-82 (51.1 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 4 SpA Latios Dragon Claw vs. 170 HP / 170+ SpD Registeel: 65-77 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I feel very confident, IRIDESCENCE 2.0 is seriously close to perfection and I badly want to hit that 2K benchmark
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In gen 5 and beyond, facility double KOs are resolved the same way they would be for link battles. In Perish Song's case, the last Pokemon to faint is declared the winner (that being the slowest one if Trick Room isn't up, or the fastest one if it is). Prior to that, however, there was a bias in the evaluation routine for such battles: any double KO at 1v1, regardless of whose move was "responsible" for it or what move that was, counts as a loss against the player, and the end of your streak. Teams relying on those strategies in early facilities, therefore, are hamstrung to a much greater extent than they are in current games.
The one weird exception, of course, being the Battle Dome, where iirc one of its many bizarre and complicated scoring algorithms is used to determine the winner in the event of a draw. The tournament gimmick means it’d feel horribly unfair if your opponent automatically got to advance if you drew with them.
I remember getting very lucky early in my Frontier career when a trainer, who was wrecking my Milotic with Wailord2, thankfully decided to kill both of us by using Double Edge at low HP instead of comfortably Resting off the damage and safely taking me out. Somehow I got handed the win!
I remember getting very lucky early in my Frontier career when a trainer, who was wrecking my Milotic with Wailord2, thankfully decided to kill both of us by using Double Edge at low HP instead of comfortably Resting off the damage and safely taking me out. Somehow I got handed the win!
I recently got my brother's GBA and fired up my own Emerald. Looked at some decently EV trained Pokemon. I have clones, shinies and win streaks to beat (I don't even have 100 wins yet lol). I was hoping to get some images uploaded soon showcasing what my cartridge had saved after I joined Smogon and NetBattle so long ago.
So far my best are Metagross/Salamence/Milotic/Gengar and the Milotic is really the only good Pokemon for real competitive play, if that. I toy with these four Pokemon however I never capitalised on Jumpman16's old trick team that could've easily got me 100 Battle Tower wins, but taking up the time and effort to get those Pokemon was not happening.
Been great reading posts in this thread so I am hoping to bring some of my own content that is if I can actually get 100 wins :)
So far my best are Metagross/Salamence/Milotic/Gengar and the Milotic is really the only good Pokemon for real competitive play, if that. I toy with these four Pokemon however I never capitalised on Jumpman16's old trick team that could've easily got me 100 Battle Tower wins, but taking up the time and effort to get those Pokemon was not happening.
Been great reading posts in this thread so I am hoping to bring some of my own content that is if I can actually get 100 wins :)
Thanks for your kind words Kommo-o! Do you have any source on the hidden power thing? I'm a bit skeptical about it because I have seen Raikou use HP Grass on a Swampert. In any case, I think I'll switch Hidden Power out for Thunder Wave because then Raikou will never waste any turns, and it's very difficult to acquire a Raikou with good IVs and a strong Hidden Power. I was originally tipped off to the Hasty nature by the fact that 2 of Spenser's 3 Pokemon are Hasty, and surely the person who understands the facility best is the one who designed it!