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Deoxys-D (Revamp) [QC 3/3] [GP 0/2]

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On the fast Spiker set maybe slash Knock Off in the fourth slot. Night Shade is not accomphishing much except giving you a move when (in an unlikely circumstance) get taunted. Most Rapid Spinners carry Leftovers as their item of choice and if you just use a quick knock off they will be worn down trice as quickly. Almost all Pokemon can't stomach having their item taken away. Knock Off gives a lot more utility than Night Shade and judging by Myzozoa's post Magic Coat is a very situational move.

I can attest to the usefullness and successfullness of the bulky spiker set, so I would be quite dissapointed if it got droppoed to OO. It is deoxys-d's best set outside of hyper offensive teams. While it can be used well on balanced teams, it finds it true home on stall teams. First, it is the only good defensive spiker in the tier that isn't weak to fire (cloyster is terrible on defensive teams). This is important because it prevents the stacking of fire weaknesses, which often occurs because stall teams incorporate multiple steel-types (for dragons) and a grass type (take rain water attacks). However its big claim to fame is countering reuniclus and beating it 1 vs 1 which is why Night Shade should be staple. Move that Stealth Rock slash up to become second to spikes. This is just incase it would be more suitible for spikes to be set up by another pokemon on the team. For example if you paired deoxys-d with skarmory, it is better to put SR on deoxys-d because it can set up against a much wider variety of targets like sun teams (which skarm wold struggle to do). Having a decetly fast taunt is also something stall teams desire to prevent set up (especially hazards). PP stalling is also very nice too. It very scared of toxic so a cleric and a grounded poison-type (tentacruel) are its best partners.
 
ThePillsburyDoughBoy said:
On the fast Spiker set maybe slash Knock Off in the fourth slot. Night Shade is not accomphishing much except giving you a move when (in an unlikely circumstance) get taunted. Most Rapid Spinners carry Leftovers as their item of choice and if you just use a quick knock off they will be worn down trice as quickly. Almost all Pokemon can't stomach having their item taken away. Knock Off gives a lot more utility than Night Shade and judging by Myzozoa's post Magic Coat is a very situational move.

I can attest to the usefullness and successfullness of the bulky spiker set, so I would be quite dissapointed if it got droppoed to OO. It is deoxys-d's best set outside of hyper offensive teams. While it can be used well on balanced teams, it finds it true home on stall teams. First, it is the only good defensive spiker in the tier that isn't weak to fire (cloyster is terrible on defensive teams). This is important because it prevents the stacking of fire weaknesses, which often occurs because stall teams incorporate multiple steel-types (for dragons) and a grass type (take rain water attacks). However its big claim to fame is countering reuniclus and beating it 1 vs 1 which is why Night Shade should be staple. Move that Stealth Rock slash up to become second to spikes. This is just incase it would be more suitible for spikes to be set up by another pokemon on the team. For example if you paired deoxys-d with skarmory, it is better to put SR on deoxys-d because it can set up against a much wider variety of targets like sun teams (which skarm wold struggle to do). Having a decetly fast taunt is also something stall teams desire to prevent set up (especially hazards). PP stalling is also very nice too. It very scared of toxic so a cleric and a grounded poison-type (tentacruel) are its best partners.
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No to Knock Off. Deoxys-D has enough 4MSS as it is. This is without even considering that Knock Off is a stupid move in general anyway. Seriously, what are you achieving with Knock Off, apart from being annoying? Night Shade, at the very least, can break Subs from Dragonite and stuff like that, while Knock Off just makes you absolute setup fodder. We're not playing LC where Eviolite is on every bloody Pokemon, lol. I don't want to anyone suggesting Knock Off be a slash on any set again, unless you have very good reason to.
 
shrang said:
No to Knock Off. Deoxys-D has enough 4MSS as it is. This is without even considering that Knock Off is a stupid move in general anyway. Seriously, what are you achieving with Knock Off, apart from being annoying? Night Shade, at the very least, can break Subs from Dragonite and stuff like that, while Knock Off just makes you absolute setup fodder. We're not playing LC where Eviolite is on every bloody Pokemon, lol. I don't want to anyone suggesting Knock Off be a slash on any set again, unless you have very good reason to.
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This. No to Knock Off. Just no.
 
shrang said:
I don't want to anyone suggesting Knock Off be a slash on any set again, unless you have very good reason to.
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  • Remove Leftovers from spinners to make them weary of spinning aganst rocky helmet
  • Remove Choice Band from Scizor. Take 50% less from U-turn allowing you to set up more hazards and prevent scizor from stopping a sweep wth cb bullet punch
  • Generally force the conumdrum of lose item or take hazard damage

Stuff like Thunder Wave and Magic Coat are suggested but they still make you set up bait against Substitute users/pokemon with lum berry yet I am not seeing them slammed.

Edit: aren't you faster than subdd nite anyway and could just go for the taunt lol SubSD Terrakion will just be lol'ed at by a SubDisable Gengar you most likely paired up with Deoxys-D
 
ThePillsburyDoughBoy said:
Stuff like Thunder Wave and Magic Coat are suggested but they still make you set up bait against Substitute users/pokemon with lum berry yet I am not seeing them slammed.
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You seem to be forgetting that 'speedy' Deoxys-D is closer to being suicide Spiker than a committed defensive Pokemon. Night Shade and Thunder Wave prevent crap like Dragonite, Terrakion, Keldeo, Landorus, etc from attempting to overwhelm Deoxys-D with powerful STAB options; or better, taking advantage of the free turns which Deoxys-D is more than likely to give. Knock is just 'meh' when this particular variant of Deoxys-D's purpose and intended playstyle are taken into account; in short, this Deo-D wants to spam entry hazards and quickly switch to something that can prevent the opposing team from using Rapid Spin, rather than stick around, spamming a move which can be easily played around and / or taken advantage of. (IMO, though, Magic Coat is a pretty questionable slash, as Deoxys-D already outpaces every common Taunt user in OU, and would rather be paraing offensive entry hazard mons', anyway).
 
Just to make this clear

Electrolyte, Add the Toxic Staller set. It was tested by QC and deemed to be a very good set, please take it out of OO.

@ ThePillsburyDoughBoy

No to Knock Off, Im now the third QC member to weigh in and reject it, its just average at best, in this metagame. Thunder Wave has use since it is generally effective against most things, (if for whatever reason your not setting up hazards), while Knock Off is knida a waste of time. Why would I bother knocking off leftovers from a Volcarona, when instead I could Thunder Wave it and cripple it for the rest of the match (or example).

Remove Choice Band from Scizor. Take 50% less from U-turn allowing you to set up more hazards and prevent scizor from stopping a sweep wth cb bullet punch
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Yea o.k, so you knock off the CB, take 55.26 - 65.13% from the U-Turn, and then your opponent brings in Terrakion, (or anything else that can take you out from 35-45% health) and KOs you. You failed utterly to set up any hazards, which is the primary purpose of Deoxys D. Compare this with the same Deoxys, but with Magic Coat. It faces off against Scizor, and uses Stealth Rock, then SURVIVES the U-Turn. Its then revenged by anything faster. Two of the same Deoxys, one with Magic Coat, and one with Knock Off, but one ends up with a layer of Stealth Rock on the field, while the other basically failed at what its susposed to do. Don't even bring up knocking off leftovers, if you are wasting a turn knocking off items, rather than setting up hazards, then go use something other than Deoxys D.

Magic Coat and Thunder Wave have better use. Thunder Wave, for example, cripples Volcarona, which can otherwise be a massive bitch to Deoxys D, since it puts you in a checkmate position, you can set up SR, but if it Quiver Dances, then its reaching +2 and that makes it really trick to deal with. You can Taunt it, but if it uses Bug Buzz, then you get 2KOed and lose anyway. Thunder Wave bypasses this problem, by crippling Volcarona, as well as netting you a layer of Hazards. It also is a nice, general move to have agaist non Sub Terrakion, Non Lum DD Dragonite, Infernape, Latias, Latios, etc etc, crippling them more than Knock Off would.

Magic Coat, has less use, I admit this, however it is good against Taunt Tornadus, or opposing Deoxys D if you don't want to risk a speed tie. I am not opposed to it getting an entire de-slash, but I am not moving on Knock Off, its shit, and other moves are just, um, better?
 
You still have a Timid nature as the primary slash on the offensive Spiker set. Modest is really a necessity unless you want to use the gems (which are terrible, giving you only one half-decent attack, for which you are sacrificing all those EVs and your item slot). Half the point of the set is to OHKO Scizor, and a 50-50 chance is not acceptable. In most cases, Deoxys-D will be coming up against a full-health Scizor, as Scizor will probably switch in as Deoxys-D attempts to set up its first hazards. If you miss the KO, Scizor OHKOes with U-turn, and you don't get to set up any more hazards.

Modest also secures numerous KOes with Psycho Boost. For example, it grants OHKOes on Haxorus and Tentacruel, and gives a small chance to OHKO Donphan (bearing in mind that spinners are often the targets for this set). Looking at honko's calc, you can just see an enormous number of important things just about being OHKOed by Psycho Boost. Even if HP Fire gave an OHKO on Scizor with Timid, I'd still probably use Modest.
 
Okay, thank you for the clarification Ginga, I have added the Toxic Staller and JC104 I switched Timid for Modest.

As for Doughboy, I kind of agree with everyone else- knock off is great but then Deoxys loses another valuable move. Things like Night Shade are just more useful overall.

Thank you everyone for your input!
 
Just pointing something I said before about the Toxic Staller:

EDIT: Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention, that if we're going to use the Agility Toxic set, it's going to need Speed EVs. I think outspeeding Scarf Rotom-W at +2 is a decent benchmark, which you need 32 Speed EVs for (So like, 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe Bold, or you can find a spread that gives you more all-rounded defenses, 252 HP / 168 Def / 56 SpD / 32 Spe Calm).
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I'd say use the last one, but the first one is also viable.
 
shrang said:
Just pointing something I said before about the Toxic Staller:



I'd say use the last one, but the first one is also viable.
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I'm not sure whether just 32 speed evs is fast enough. How about 252 HP / 100 SpD / 124 Spe Calm to outspeed +1 max speed base 100's? This allows you to catch Salamence and Haxorus even after a Dragon Dance.
 
Electrolyte said:
I'm not sure whether just 32 speed evs is fast enough. How about 252 HP / 100 SpD / 124 Spe Calm to outspeed +1 max speed base 100's? This allows you to catch Salamence and Haxorus even after a Dragon Dance.
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I think you'd be better off using something else to beat +1 Dragons, a +1 outrage does enough damage that you can't set up on it comfortably, I'll check a log but I'm pretty sure +1 Hax does more than 70% unless you invest in defense. Toxic Stalling without protect is not a desirable way to deal with these pokemon.
 
That makes sense. Many DDancers carry a Lum berry anyway. I think then that outspeeding Rotom-W is a good benchmark, to prevent it from Tricking. You've brought up a good point- it's hard to Toxic Stall without Protect, so I'll add that to the set. I'll also put up Shrang's EVs. Thanks for the suggestion!

EDIT: I put up Trick Scarf, and added Shrang's ev spread for the Toxic Staller. I also put in substitute for AC on the TS, I tested it and it worked really well
 
De Slash Protect on the Toxic Staller set. Protect really has fuck all purpose, when you have access to a 50% recovery move which is about 1000x better than Protect.
 
Yeah, wtf is Protect doing on Toxic Stall? You still don't appear to actually get what this set does. Take it off now, please. I have actually made it clear before that I will reject any set with Protect as a main slash, that does not actually utilise something that Protect is integral of (eg Wish/Protect, Stallrein-esque stalling with Rain Dish, Ice Body, Poison Heal). If you've let a Dragon Dancer like Haxorus get to +1, you've already failed. You Taunt these things first, you know.
 
Sorry to pester again, but the offensive set still needs fixing:


  • Timid should not feature on the set at all without a Gem (which I wouldn't recommend, but a lot of people seem to like). KOing Scizor is non-negotiable; it's the main point of the set. You'll need to make it clear in the analysis that the main target is Scizor unless using Tbolt, in which case the main target is Starmie. You need Modest for a shot at OHKOing Starmie too, though the odds are still not good.
  • You should add an AC mention for 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Adamant with Superpower (OHKOes TTar) and Fire Punch (good chance to OHKO Scizor).
  • I can't work out what on earth 208 Spe does. Either you should run max to tie (and OHKO) Adamant Lucario and outrun Timid Heatran, or you should drop the EVs down such that you just about outrun neutral base 80s (dragonite, mamoswine etc.)
  • Taunt probably shouldn't be an option since you have the ability to heavily damage a lot of Pokemon, and are slower than other Deo-D. It's a suicide hazard setter, so setting up the most important hazard should be a priority.
  • Tentacruel is OHKOed by Psycho Boost
  • Don't mention HP Fighting. Superpower would do more even with no investment.
 
alright, added jc104's suggestions. Originally, I wrote it based on the goal to eliminate spinners and then set up, but taking out Scizor is also very important too. 208 Spe was to outspeed Adamant Haxorus and hit with Psycho Boost, but you're right 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Modest is probably more efficient.

Also added Ginja's and Shrang's changes.
 
Me said:
You should add an AC mention for 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Adamant with Superpower (OHKOes TTar) and Fire Punch (good chance to OHKO Scizor).
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Add that, and

QC Approved 2/3

edit: I forgot to mention that the scarf set is pretty questionable. I'm basically just trusting Rey and a couple of other people who seem to make it work. I'm happy for it to be removed if someone else wants it to go.
 
Yea, don't forget jc104's AC spread when talking about Superpower & Fire Punch

[Speedy Spiker]

Spinners are great partners, notable ones are Gengar and Jellicent
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you mean spin blockers.

[Offensive Spiker]

~ Needs a much bigger emphasis in its ability to kill Spinners, Spikers, and Scizor. This allows Deoxys-D to still accomplish the same thing as Speedy Spiker, which is setting up hazards and limiting hazards on its own side. Scizor butchering is just a very nice bonus that is just as helpful to offensive teams.

Note that all spinners are OHKO'd by a move after 3 layers of Spikes
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This is misleading - Deoxys-D can OHKO spinners with minimal hazard support. Otherwise this set would be pointless -.-

[Toxic Stall]

~ No mention of hazards support? This set is 150% dependent on hazards, cuz it forces switches like crazy, but has no direct attacks to damage the opponent. There's Toxic, but hazards are the primary damaging weapon here.
~ I used 252 HP / 168 Def / 56 SpD / 32 Spe suggested by shrang for my test runs; the extra special buffer is nice.
~ AC mention 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD / 32 Spe to avoid the Hurricane 2HKO better. It doesn't tank Outrages as easily, but should still be able to Recover-stall for the confusion to kick in
~ Remove the alternative spread mentioned in AC, since it's the same exact spread as the main one.
~ Remove Rocky Helmet - Leftovers is indispensable
~ Protect / Substitute may deserve a mention over Toxic for the ultimate PP-stalling machine, but the loss of Toxic hurts.

[Trick Scarf]

~ move Stealth Rock to the 3rd slot; slash Taunt before Thunder Wave
~ Mention that this set is also good for scarfing set-up Sweepers, locking Volcarona into QD or Gengar into a Substitute, for instance. Also cripples Espeon or Sableye on the switch.
~ Mention that this set also does not fear Trick Scarf, which is another advantage over other Spiking sets
 
Thank you Ginganinja and jc104 for your QC approvals!

@jc104- the Scarf set should stay, IMO. Being able to cripple Espeon and Sableye on the switch is just too useful, and being able to Trick to a Volcorona that thinks it can set up on you is also too awesome to pass up. Not only that, Deoxys-D still functions pretty well with a scarf, as it doesn't hinder Deoxys-D from doing what it does best- Taunt and set Spikes. Still, I'm very open to suggestions.

@Pocket- I implemented all of your changes. Though, I'm not so sure about the AC EVs for the Toxic Staller set; Specs Hurricane is doing 46-55%, and sure you can Recover but you will eventually get confused and you are not damaging your opponent in anyway. Either way, thanks!
 
Two things...

The second set is named Offensive Spikes, while it should be Offensive Spiker, right?

And Thunder should be used over Tbolt in the 3rd slot of the Offensive Spiker set. Tbolts main use, is to hit Starmie, which Tbolt rarely manages even with LO and a Modest nature. It does 86.59 - 101.91%, which is a 12.5% chance to ohko, while Thunder has a 70% chance to do the same (which is the move's accuracy, as if it hits it always ohkoes Starmie). It also always ohkoes Skarmory after Sturdy is broken, which is always nice.

So unless i am missing something Thunder does what Tbolt does, but better, so why have the latter as the main option?
 
So unless i am missing something Thunder does what Tbolt does, but better, so why have the latter as the main option?
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Maybe because Thunder is ridiculously inaccurate, and since Deo-D is usually leading, rain is unlikely to be up immediately?
 
Yeah but as i said before, Starmie is the reason to use an electric move, and since you will be always leading as you said, having a 70% chance to OHKO Starmie (Thunder's chance) is better than a 12.5% chance (Tbolts chance), no?
 
i agree with alexwolf. For this particular purpose of destroying Rapid Spinners, Thunder gets the job done better. I've seen users of Offensive Deo-D use Thunder over Thunderbolt in fact. I wouldn't mind dropping TB to AC and slash Thunder instead
 
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