Thanks for the reply
VannAccessible
do you have suggestions for Pokémon’s to use?
have experimented with
and whilst it can 2hko the meta with its stabs, it’s not fun missing headsmash 20% of the time, as it often costs games when you get a 64% chance to 2hko the bulkiest resists. It also adds more to the fighting weakness .. but at least can force out clefable!
dragmag hasn’t been an issue at all, they tend to be horrible against trick room! Rarely lose to those types of teams, it’s generally the slower bulkier teams that spam protect/substitute as you mentioned.
peak so far is about 1550, have been modifying it a lot, current iteration is using chople
as a shadow ball immunity, tho without eviolite it’s bulk is really lacking, and choosing between recover or magic coat is a tough decision.
the anti synergy of crawdaunt and torkoal , combined with torkoals rock weakness meant that only crawdaunt still makes the cut. It’s by far the most required member of a BDSP trick room team!
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I think you can reliably beat EVERY offensive team with a simple semi-trick room team with just Bronzong and crawdaunt. Your other 4 can be S or A tier threats (with a switch in for breloom and azumarill)… offensive teams can simply not switch in on crawdaunt in trick room, so it usually bets at least 2 KOs and busts a team wide open.
the reason it would work so well is because bronzong can be EV optimised to switch into every dragon, and set up SR + TR (or just TR) before exploding. Offensive teams don’t have the counterplay to cope with that, and in the top 30 or so ELO, everyone knows what to expect , so your team needs consistency
I had fun playing against you! Sorry about the wall o’ text, I don’t know how to do sprites.
Well I agree with you there, Offense is generally the easiest MU for TR. But yeah, the Stall / Balance MU is much more challenging.
Suicide setters like Explosion Bronzong and Mew are great at setting rocks, TRing and against offense and getting the kill train going with a bang, but Balance and Stall with their durability usually put having a suicide lead at a disadvantage. Stall is generally running Protect Unaware Clefable and Tangrowth which together totally stone wall Crawdaunt and Band Azurmarril, meaning while the suicide setter is never going to be worth it in a stall MU. You’re sacrificing a team slot for momentum in that MU that just isn’t going to be worth losing 1 of your 6 mons against what will be a long game.
I’ll offer my setters I’ve tried.
You mentioned the Crawdaunt bottleneck for Stall. “We’ve had one Crawdaunt yes, but what about second Crawdaunt?”
Cresselia (F) @ Mental Herb / Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight
- Trick Room
- Lunar Dance
Cres shouldn’t be a new concept to anyone who’s ever used TR. This thing is FAT, sticks around as long as you need it to so it can set up TR multiple times a game, scouts Gengar’s Shadow Balls with Moonlight (which you can then capitalize on by switching to a Normal type), and heals up your Crawdaunt or whatever and gets them in for free. It walls Dragons to high hell and nails them with Ice Beam, as well as Gliscor and Breloom. Item choice is between Mental Herb or Lum Berry. I prefer not to lead with Cres, since many people lead with with their Taunter, so LB let’s it set up it can set up on Breloom without worrying about sleep, as well as Thunder Wave Togekiss which is a total jerk that will flinch most TR setters to death if you let it.
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Mew @ Mental Herb
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Overheat / Earthquake
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
I’ve shifted away from using a suicide lead because of that troublesome Stall MU, but Mew is good at it. It’s basically works the same as your Bronzong. Mental Herb for Taunt, bulky, hard to OHKO, sets up TR, rocks and then explodes, which prevents Rapid Spin or Defog from removing said rocks, and then gets your breaker in, often getting an Explosion kill in the process.
The last move is why I think Mew is slightly better than Bronzong in this role, despite being a bit easier to OHKO. It lets Mew take out things that Explosion would otherwise be a dud against.
Overheat (my preference) let’s you roast Skarmory, Forretress and Scizor, liberating your physical breakers to get to work faster.
Earthquake is worth noting as gets Gengar and Heatran, both of whom are trouble for other squad mates.
Take your pick there!
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Xatu (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Roost / Defog
- Trick Room
- Teleport
Here’s a TR setter that sets up as a guaranteed lead, as it can’t be Taunted or Spored, while also keeping rocks off the field, which is nice for Specs Torkoal. Teleport gets your first switch in for your breaker safely, but unlike an Explosion setter, you aren’t getting a kill on the switch. It’s not going to set up TR twice unless it’s sash remains in tact from the first round, but it’s also useful death fodder after the first round of TR. Just pack more answers to Breloom.
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Gardevoir (F) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Trick Room
Sometimes switching out after setting TR is a turn sink you can’t afford. Sometimes you just want to start blasting the team from the get go. For this reason, Gardevoir is the best offensive setter.
It sets up all over Latios and most special attackers, and it steals abilities, which is really handy against Heatran. With Trace, Gardevoir, like Porygon2, is Magma Storm trapping proof, but unlike Pory, it can actually hit Heatran with Focus Blast. With STABs, and yoinked abilities, Garde is a great cleaner!
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Alright those are some setters I’ve tried, here’s the breakers I’ve used.
Azumarill (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Aqua Jet
- Superpower
Here’s the actual second Crawdaunt, with a better defensive typing that resists Mach Punch and is less squishy. Juicy STABs, Aqua Jet for priority outside TR, Superpower for Empoleon and easing predictions against stuff like Tyranitar and Heatran when the opponent also has some water resists. All around great breaker in TR, and can be paired with Crawdaunt for Water Spam. Honestly, it’s almost as good as Crawdaunt in TR, but slightly less spammable as it can be played around being locked into moves.
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Aggron (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Head Smash
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
Here’s a physically bulky breaker that seeks to take advantage of Clefable. Head Smash is waaaaaay spammable. 150 BP coming off an impressive 110 base attack, and no recoil and very few defensive Rock resists in the meta. The catch? 80% accuracy makes 2HKOs against bulky threats inconsistent. When it works it works, but consistency is what gets you high ladder, so it’s not my favorite.
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Steelix (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
- Substitute / Explosion
Now this guy I will argue is BETTER than Aggron. Steelix sports equally impressive physical bulk with a better defensive typing, doesn’t get forced out by Breloom, and sports a handy electric immunity. Steelix helped Crawdaunt and Azurmarril get me my peak, so he gets my highest recommendation for what he brings to Trick Room.
Like Aggron, he can swap into annoying Clefables, but he is also deceptively powerful without locking into moves. Heavy Slam is a nuke that 2HKOs Gliscor, EQ hits Steels like Heatran and Jirachi, Fire Fang hits Scizor and Skarmory which can’t do much back and gets a Sheer Force boost. Last move, I like Substitute as it lets Steelix take the most advantage of Protect Heatran and Clefable and severely easing that mu. Explosion is also nice as it lets Steelix net a surprise KO on Rotom and Quagsire, while also grabbing offensive momentum. Take your pick!
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Exploud (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Boomburst
- Overheat
- Focus Blast
- Surf / Sleep Talk
I hesitate to even mention Specsloud because it gets stonewalled by Blissey, but it’s nice to list an option for the jerk Suicune / Gengar Substitute MU and having a handy ghost immunity. Just click Boomburst, and watch stuff drop. Scrappy means it hits ghosts too. Focus Blast hits Heatran and Tyranitar, Overheat hits Scizor and Jirachi. Surf hits the normal resists with more accuracy than Focus Blast. While really strong, Specsloud is useless for the Stall MU. Pity, because it’s really fun. :/
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Seviper (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Sludge Bomb
- Dark Pulse
- Final Gambit
- Switcheroo
One more for funsies, because I really hate Substitutes. Seviper has Infiltrator, so it bypasses Subs and Screens! It’s not as bad against Stall as Exploud, as it can use Switcheroo to screw over a wall or Suicune behind a sub, and even after doing that, a Final Gambit from full health is going to really hurt something. Stab Poison scares Clefable out and Dark Pulse is for getting Gengar through Substitute.
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Other stuff: Marowak, Machamp, Heracross; while all strong, got me no where on the ladder. I won’t say they’re bad, but stalling out Guts mons is too easy for the Bulky mons running high ladder. Marowak simply isn’t equipped to deal with stuff like Skarmory, Gliscor and Tangrowth, which are all also Stall and Balance staples.
Torkoal @ Choice Specs
Exeggutor @ Sitrus Berry
Slowbro @ Sitrus Berry
Starmie @ Life Orb
Steelix has perfect coverage with dual STABs + Rock coverage, but it struggles with Skarmory. Maybe Curse + 3 Attacks could work.
Rhyperior can use Band or SD 3 Attacks to some success. For its coverage, Heat Crash was removed and I don’t think Fire Punch is available on it either but Megahorn hits Slowbro at least. Like Steelix, it can tank a hit from Garchomp if needed.
The closest thing to Alolan Marowak. I think Thick Club exists, and if it does then SD sets look appealing.
Sheer Force LO sets are usually found in lower modern tiers but BDSP’s drop in power could make Mawile usable depending on how much coverage it has retained. LO Sucker Punch is also nice.
Fighting version of “Guts go brrrr”. Close Combat is a nuke, not sure what Machamp’s coverage looks like in BDSP however.
Normal version of “Guts go brrrr”. STAB Facade deletes every non-resist.
Head Smash go brrrr. It might be able to make use of Sheer Force + LO.
Azumarill is probably best off using a Choice Band but will otherwise be a Crawdaunt clone with better defensive utility.
Base 61 is still an acceptable speed for Trick Room. Mixed LO with Flamethrower and Ice Beam seems like a great lure for Skarmory and Gliscor, respectively.
