I completely agree with Thundurus being A+. It's one of the best checks to most sweepers thanks to prankster twave, at the very least it's the easiest to slap on a team because it still has a good offensive presence too. It has a great typing that can check bird spam, and hits both flying type mons(talon & mence) super effectively. And like Jibaku said it can have lots of sets and all of them are great.
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Battle Spot Singles Viability Rankings!
- Thread starter Feliburn
- Start date
- Status
As I've said before, the ability to run with so many amazing sets without the need for mega slot makes garchomp to be in the same tier, S, as mega kangaskhan/gengar. Garchomp's presence is threatening to a point where people have indirevtly overprepared for mega salamence. And we all know mega salamence should've been THE mega pokemon...if it wasn't for so many things to be prepared for it (i.e. random things carrying ice beam). I don't think kangaskhan/gengar should be in their own tier but firmly believe they should be in the same tier as garchomp.
Mega salamence, I'm not too sure about. I'm sure people with more experience, especially regarding mega salamence, can give us some input.
I used to think garchomp was S tier worthy but the more I think about garchmp being in the same tier as the 2 omnipotent megas, gengar and kangaskhan, the less I thnk garchomp deserves S. Yes, it's everywhere. Yes, it's very good. Garchomp, imho, is not as impactful as the two. As for mega salamence, I believe in terms of overall viability, garchomp and mega salamence are on equal grounds. Mega salamence is far superior in terms of raw force but not as easy to fit into teams (clearly) and it requires mega evolution. Garchomp is far more easy to fit into teams with various items but it's not as, again, impactful.
I've always thought about mega salamence and garchomp separately when thinking about their tier standings but never together. Garchomp is such a powerful pokemon and it's true mega salamence could've been more of a threat (not saying it isn't at the moment) if people weren't already prepared for it so much. But is garchomp viable/powerful/versatile enough to be a tier above mega salamence? I can't say it is. While it's true I get scared whenever garchomp is on the other team because I need to see what pokemons the opponents chose to 3v3 to even start guessing about what item garchomp most likely has. And while garchomp isn't going to one shot too many pokemons without boosts (unless it's a choice band garchomp), it's usually does work...at least to meet the expectations. Still, mega salamence is such a monster. It does take up a mega slot, so you can't use mega kangaskhan or gengar at the same time, but it's just as strong in my opinion. I'd like to always say mega salamence is quite versatile with dragon dance sets (substitute + DD, DD +3 attacks), mixed sets (specially and physically oriented that I believe are both amazing), as well as the toxic set. In conclusion, I think if garchomp goes up to S, so should mega salamence.
I think Rhyperior should get a rank, like C+. it's a solid check to things like Talonflame or Dragonite. It has a lot of attacking power, and the EdgeQuake combo is scary, although Rock Blast is an option to break sashes. Rhyperior also has a large defense stat and Solid Rock, which let it take super effective moves better. Problems with Rhyperior are low speed and pitiful special bulk, but that is why im not nominating it for the higher ranks. But Rhyperior is a solid pokemon and deserves to get ranked, even with it's flaws.
Finally got my comp working again so expect full activity o/
Sorry for the delay, I promise to be more active with the future updates and meta discussion (also organized the rankings in alphabetical order so now it looks way better), but as usual, update time!
Now to the current discussion..
The issue with mega salamence is how overestimated it was when it was first introduced, making the majority of players run check and counters for it, also it's majorly dependant on its flying STAB (which a lot of players are already prepared for thanks to talon's bird spam) and still struggles vs common walls like Cress, Rotom-W and Zapdos, don't get me wrong, mega mence can be really scary but I personally think it's fine where it is right now.
Now Garchomp is extremely versatile, has decent bulk + nice defensive ability, hits relatively hard and nice coverage (Ground + Dragon) and has a unique speed tier that outspeeds base 100 stat threats like both mega charizards, mega kanga and gardevoir, also base 101 stat thundurus-t (w/o scarf), a lot of people think chomp isn't as game defining as mega kanga/gengar/aegi but it is a deadly opponent who threatens the ability to sweep at any moment thanks to the ammount of sets it can run (Sash/Resist Berry + SD, Choice Scarf/Band, etc), alternatively look at this post which explains the pros of Garchomp in battle spot; I truly believe an exception could be made if enough people think it deserves S rank but right now it would be making a rash split decision so I'll give it some time so people can post if they changed their mind or to raise any objections regarding chomp moving to S rank.
The addition of a SS rank will be discussed so expect news on it soon but if it were to be implemented then it's quite obvious that these 2 would be in it.
Sorry for the delay, I promise to be more active with the future updates and meta discussion (also organized the rankings in alphabetical order so now it looks way better), but as usual, update time!
Code:
Clawitzer: Unranked ---> B- Rank
Tornadus-T: Unranked ---> C+ Rank
Aerodactyl (Mega): Unranked ---> B Rank
Gliscor: Unranked ---> A- Rank
Espeon: Unranked --->C+ Rank
Weavile: B Rank ---> B+ Rank
Scrafty: Unranked ---> B Rank
Starmie: B- Rank ---> C+ Rank
Latias: B- Rank ---> B Rank
Hippowdon: Unranked ---> A- Rank
Drifblim: Unranked ---> D+ Rank
Thundurus: B Rank ---> A+ Rank
Blaziken (& Mega): A Rank ---> A+ RankNow to the current discussion..
The issue with mega salamence is how overestimated it was when it was first introduced, making the majority of players run check and counters for it, also it's majorly dependant on its flying STAB (which a lot of players are already prepared for thanks to talon's bird spam) and still struggles vs common walls like Cress, Rotom-W and Zapdos, don't get me wrong, mega mence can be really scary but I personally think it's fine where it is right now.
Now Garchomp is extremely versatile, has decent bulk + nice defensive ability, hits relatively hard and nice coverage (Ground + Dragon) and has a unique speed tier that outspeeds base 100 stat threats like both mega charizards, mega kanga and gardevoir, also base 101 stat thundurus-t (w/o scarf), a lot of people think chomp isn't as game defining as mega kanga/gengar/aegi but it is a deadly opponent who threatens the ability to sweep at any moment thanks to the ammount of sets it can run (Sash/Resist Berry + SD, Choice Scarf/Band, etc), alternatively look at this post which explains the pros of Garchomp in battle spot; I truly believe an exception could be made if enough people think it deserves S rank but right now it would be making a rash split decision so I'll give it some time so people can post if they changed their mind or to raise any objections regarding chomp moving to S rank.
The addition of a SS rank will be discussed so expect news on it soon but if it were to be implemented then it's quite obvious that these 2 would be in it.
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For mega salamence, I guess there's not much to be discussed if people think the meta's over preparation for it really hurts it that badly, which I can understand. As for garchomp, it just looked like people that at least gave input believed garchomp's versatility in sets and items, not requiring mega slot, and the ability to fit into so many top tier team compositions made it good enough for garchomp to be not only in S but in the same tier as mega kangaskhan and gengar. Hence, if we were to make a new tier, SS, wouldn't that mean people want garchomp to be in SS as well (saw people making arguments here and there on the forums/irc that garchomp was just as metagame-defining as gengar and kangaskhan megas...overall).
Edit: As for myself, I am not sure anymore (not like my opinion matters or should anyways).
Edit: As for myself, I am not sure anymore (not like my opinion matters or should anyways).
I think most people that posted about garchomp on this thread has ageed on garchomp being in S, alongside mega gengar and kangkhan. My initial belief was that mega gengar and kangaskhan were significantly more metagame defining than garchomp. That being said, I may have misjudged just how ridiculous garchomp's versatility is, and how much it contributes to its overwhelming presence over BSS. Not one A+ pokemon, and Aegislash, is as dominant as garchomp. It's just so darn easy to insert it into almost any team. The fact that it can use so many items, ranging from lum, yache, haban, focus sash, choice band, choice scarf, rocky helmet, and etc makes garchomp even more dangerous. Fitting in gachomp into a team practically removes the thorough process of teambuilding. Hell, I've even seen Korean players (at Pokemon gallery) refer garchomp to being broken. And to a certain extent, I agree.
Additionally, I don't support we need to make the SS tier as I don't believe Kangaskhan and Genga are superior pokemons to garchomp. It's a bold statement but I'll say it anyways. I just believe S tier is complete with garchomp, gengar, and kangaskhan...and without aegislash. Statements regarding aegislash will com later however.
Additionally, I don't support we need to make the SS tier as I don't believe Kangaskhan and Genga are superior pokemons to garchomp. It's a bold statement but I'll say it anyways. I just believe S tier is complete with garchomp, gengar, and kangaskhan...and without aegislash. Statements regarding aegislash will com later however.
I think there should be an SS tier because I don't really think Garchomp is on the same level as Mega Gengar, and to an extent Kanga as well. I don't think Aegislash really is on that level either. I mostly think Mega Gengar is the reason there should be an SS tier, less so Mega Kan. Garchomp is incredibly versatile, yes but I really don't think Garchomp is as metagame defining as Mega Gengar & Kanga. I think it's a great pokemon in the meta and deserves to be S rank for sure. But comparing Garchomp to Gengar, I don't see them on the same level. Nothing can compare to what Mega Gengar can do. Mega Gengar can potentially guarantee at least one kill. The utility that Shadow Tag provides on such a good pokemon like Gengar is incredible and nothing to fuck around with. You literally cannot counter that when it's used right. Garchomp can be countered and neutralized by a decent amount of things, really defensive mons like suicune and cresselia with ice beam come to mind and they're not exactly uncommon. I'm not going to discredit Chomp's capabilities though because I can't, it's really good. But to me it just doesn't match the potential to get guaranteed kills with Mega Gengar. Just because Garchomp is easier to fit on teams and has a lot of options doesn't necessarily mean it's the better pokemon. And if there were to be an SS tier implemented I wouldn't be opposed to just Mega Gengar being there.
As for Mega Kanga, I don't know if I would put it up at the same level as Mega Gengar. But I do think it's significantly metagame defining because you really do need solid checks to this on your team or else you'll probably lose. I think the prevalence of Rocky Helmet just shows how defining it really is. And you can say it's not as good because people over-prepare for it, but people over-prepare for it because it's so good and even then, Kanga has ways to get around almost all of its checks. Secret Power avoids Rocky Helmet, Earthquake deals with steels and aegislash, Not mega evolving and using PuP on a switch can deal with some ghost types. Substitute deals with certain will-o users. Kanga isn't just a one set wonder, it can and does adapt to the metagame.
And I don't think Aegislash is as metagame defining as any of these pokemon either, including Chomp. It's really good don't get me wrong but I feel like there's a lot of viable ways to deal with it. Good Earthquake users like Chomp and Lando deal with it reasonably well. CM Suicune has a really good matchup against it. Strong fire types like Charizard and Blaziken(50/50s with flare blitz & KS but still). A lot of salamence have Earthquake, and talonflame has flare blitz so even as a flying resist it isnt amazing for that role. The mind games with KS can be good in aegislash's favor but it's really just 50/50s so it comes down to coinflips. But it's typing is amazing and it's a great check to tons of things. I just think it's weaknesses don't really make it deserving of the same level as Mega Gengar.
As for Mega Kanga, I don't know if I would put it up at the same level as Mega Gengar. But I do think it's significantly metagame defining because you really do need solid checks to this on your team or else you'll probably lose. I think the prevalence of Rocky Helmet just shows how defining it really is. And you can say it's not as good because people over-prepare for it, but people over-prepare for it because it's so good and even then, Kanga has ways to get around almost all of its checks. Secret Power avoids Rocky Helmet, Earthquake deals with steels and aegislash, Not mega evolving and using PuP on a switch can deal with some ghost types. Substitute deals with certain will-o users. Kanga isn't just a one set wonder, it can and does adapt to the metagame.
And I don't think Aegislash is as metagame defining as any of these pokemon either, including Chomp. It's really good don't get me wrong but I feel like there's a lot of viable ways to deal with it. Good Earthquake users like Chomp and Lando deal with it reasonably well. CM Suicune has a really good matchup against it. Strong fire types like Charizard and Blaziken(50/50s with flare blitz & KS but still). A lot of salamence have Earthquake, and talonflame has flare blitz so even as a flying resist it isnt amazing for that role. The mind games with KS can be good in aegislash's favor but it's really just 50/50s so it comes down to coinflips. But it's typing is amazing and it's a great check to tons of things. I just think it's weaknesses don't really make it deserving of the same level as Mega Gengar.
Landorus-I isn't banned but Sheer Force isn't available in ORAS so it lost a good amount of viability. Just hasn't been a priority really, it probably deserves a rank but I don't use it ever so idk where it'd go. Maybe someone else could weigh in.
Also, I can't tell if you think Glalie should be lower or higher than B, or just don't know why it's ranked at all. But it's B because SubProtect Moody w/ Sheer Cold is pretty good. It's not higher I guess because Moody can be unreliable at times and ice is a pretty shit type(unless you're playing inverse heh). Whether it should be higher or lower is debatable but that's a brief description of why it's B.
Oh thank you, I thought Glailie was supposed to be a spiker, didn't know Sheer Cold and Moody were avaiable. Also, how is Sheer force not viable?
I didn't say it wasn't viable. It's not available. You can't get Landorus-I's hidden ability(Sheer Force) in ORAS. And in Battle Spot, all pokemon need to be caught/bred in Gen 6. So using Sheer Force Lando-I isn't possible.
Oh, okay. Then keep Lando I unranked, unless u use Sand Force on sand teams or something like that.
I think we're doing too much comparing here, and need to rank Pokemon on their own merits, rather than in relation to other mons.
Garchomp and Mega Salamence are incomparable imo. Mence is a mega Pokemon which aims to Dragon Dance and spam it's Aerilate-Normal moves (with mostly non-STAB Earthquake for coverage). It's main source of offence (Flying-type moves) is so accounted for already in the meta thanks to Talonflame's presence in the meta since Battle Spot's inception (and things like Mega Pinsir in XY). Mega Salamence is still really really strong and easily destroys teams that aren't prepared properly (or choose wrongly at team preview), but when looking at these viability rankings you don't want to be mislead and see Mence in the top tier due to the metagame being mostly hostile to it. I want him to stay A+
Garchomp on the other hand plays differently to Salamence. Sure it has its Scarf, Band, and Swords Dance sets that can attempt to sweep teams, but they're mostly used as cleaners / wall breakers respectively. Not only that but he has his supportive sets like Sash Stealth Rock (w/ Rock Tomb speed support), and defensive Rock Helmet. Along with that, he can run a multitude of items so that he doesn't clash with your other teammates, and remains viable with many of them. His base 102 speed is really good, it allows him to get ahead of the whole base 100 group which contains so many important mons I won't bother to list. His overall stat distribution is phenomenal. I've already gone into this in my previous post so I won't talk about Garchomp too much anymore.
I think it's unfair to compare him to Mega Gengar and Mega Kangskhan as well. People say they're uncomfortable having him in the same tier as them when they all play differently and are the best at what they do respectively, which would make sense to have them all in S. I just don't understand how the best non-mega Pokemon isn't an auto S-rank tbh.
I don't support SS either. I want S to be Aegislash, Garchomp, Mega Gengar and Mega Kangaskhan (coz alphabetical). They are the 4 best Pokemon in the meta and all deserve S rank.
Garchomp and Mega Salamence are incomparable imo. Mence is a mega Pokemon which aims to Dragon Dance and spam it's Aerilate-Normal moves (with mostly non-STAB Earthquake for coverage). It's main source of offence (Flying-type moves) is so accounted for already in the meta thanks to Talonflame's presence in the meta since Battle Spot's inception (and things like Mega Pinsir in XY). Mega Salamence is still really really strong and easily destroys teams that aren't prepared properly (or choose wrongly at team preview), but when looking at these viability rankings you don't want to be mislead and see Mence in the top tier due to the metagame being mostly hostile to it. I want him to stay A+
Garchomp on the other hand plays differently to Salamence. Sure it has its Scarf, Band, and Swords Dance sets that can attempt to sweep teams, but they're mostly used as cleaners / wall breakers respectively. Not only that but he has his supportive sets like Sash Stealth Rock (w/ Rock Tomb speed support), and defensive Rock Helmet. Along with that, he can run a multitude of items so that he doesn't clash with your other teammates, and remains viable with many of them. His base 102 speed is really good, it allows him to get ahead of the whole base 100 group which contains so many important mons I won't bother to list. His overall stat distribution is phenomenal. I've already gone into this in my previous post so I won't talk about Garchomp too much anymore.
I think it's unfair to compare him to Mega Gengar and Mega Kangskhan as well. People say they're uncomfortable having him in the same tier as them when they all play differently and are the best at what they do respectively, which would make sense to have them all in S. I just don't understand how the best non-mega Pokemon isn't an auto S-rank tbh.
I don't support SS either. I want S to be Aegislash, Garchomp, Mega Gengar and Mega Kangaskhan (coz alphabetical). They are the 4 best Pokemon in the meta and all deserve S rank.
Garchomp is completely deserving of S-rank without the SS tier (which I think should not be implemented imo). It has the advantage of being a non-mega, which means it can just be thrown onto teams. The fact that it also synergizes well with a lot of pokemon is definitely something to be considered as well and this is the reason it's seen on 60% of teams. Garchomp has well-distributed stats, only lacking in Special Attack and Special Defense (which really is only above average). Ground/Dragon coverage is not resisted by many, the only mentionable ones being Whimsicott, Skarmory, and to an extent, Togekiss. Its movepool allows it to run a plethora of sets effectively, ranging from Banded Chomp to SD Chomp to even Bulky Chomp, which makes it unpredictable most of the time. I wouldn't say the fact that it is the #1 most used pokemon in Battle Spot Singles is why it deserves to be S-rank, but it is definitely something to consider when stating your opinion on it. I know most of this has been already stated, but I just want to reinforce the idea that it should be in S tier with Mega Kanga and Mega Gengar.
I'm a little torn on Aegislash though. The 50/50 chances when fighting Aegislash is one of the main points for it being in S tier, and its god-given typing. Synergy with lots of pokemon and being a non-Mega is nice too. Aegislash also essentially has 60/150/150/150/150/60 stats when using it correctly and if it's against a pokemon that outspeeds it. Those stats are nothing to sleep on. Ghost STAB is really strong, especially with the buff given to it in gen 6. Aegislash is also versatile like Garchomp is, but not on the same level as Garchomp. Mixed w/WP, SubToxic, or SD Aegi is all there really is to use, and SD is kinda underwhelming at times tbh since Scald burns and Will-O-Wisp is a thing. Aegislash's very presence in the meta also prevents from some pokemon from being used often (Hi Psychic types). The problem that Aegislash has is that most common pokemon in the metagame can relatively beat with when it has some prior damage taken, like Garchomp, Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Gengar, Blaziken, Landorus-T, and that list probably goes on. Slow, bulky pokemon that can take a hit and OHKO it with a SE move is also a problem. It also gets completely wrecked by Trick, since its ability now loses its usefulness. Aegislash still puts in work when the user of Aegislash wins the 50/50, but its probability of facing a pokemon that it will struggle on is pretty high. I'm on the edge of saying if I want in A+ or S, but I'm a bit more lenient towards A+ unless someone can convince me well.
I'd like to bring up another pokemon for discussion, if that's fine. It's about Tyranitar and Tyranitar-Mega in this metagame. Is reg Tyranitar really A- worthy? I'm not too sure myself as I have just started testing it out a few days ago, and I think reg T-Tar's best use is on sand cores, which is pretty much T-Tar/Excadrill/M-Mence. Really solid core, but I feel Hippo does the job better in that core. Tyranitar also has no means of recovery, and it is easily hindered by any forms of status since it's not immune to any of them. I haven't tried out Mega Tyranitar yet however, it looks like it should stay in A- since it is threatening with a DD up. Anyone have any opinions on this poke?
I'm a little torn on Aegislash though. The 50/50 chances when fighting Aegislash is one of the main points for it being in S tier, and its god-given typing. Synergy with lots of pokemon and being a non-Mega is nice too. Aegislash also essentially has 60/150/150/150/150/60 stats when using it correctly and if it's against a pokemon that outspeeds it. Those stats are nothing to sleep on. Ghost STAB is really strong, especially with the buff given to it in gen 6. Aegislash is also versatile like Garchomp is, but not on the same level as Garchomp. Mixed w/WP, SubToxic, or SD Aegi is all there really is to use, and SD is kinda underwhelming at times tbh since Scald burns and Will-O-Wisp is a thing. Aegislash's very presence in the meta also prevents from some pokemon from being used often (Hi Psychic types). The problem that Aegislash has is that most common pokemon in the metagame can relatively beat with when it has some prior damage taken, like Garchomp, Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Gengar, Blaziken, Landorus-T, and that list probably goes on. Slow, bulky pokemon that can take a hit and OHKO it with a SE move is also a problem. It also gets completely wrecked by Trick, since its ability now loses its usefulness. Aegislash still puts in work when the user of Aegislash wins the 50/50, but its probability of facing a pokemon that it will struggle on is pretty high. I'm on the edge of saying if I want in A+ or S, but I'm a bit more lenient towards A+ unless someone can convince me well.
I'd like to bring up another pokemon for discussion, if that's fine. It's about Tyranitar and Tyranitar-Mega in this metagame. Is reg Tyranitar really A- worthy? I'm not too sure myself as I have just started testing it out a few days ago, and I think reg T-Tar's best use is on sand cores, which is pretty much T-Tar/Excadrill/M-Mence. Really solid core, but I feel Hippo does the job better in that core. Tyranitar also has no means of recovery, and it is easily hindered by any forms of status since it's not immune to any of them. I haven't tried out Mega Tyranitar yet however, it looks like it should stay in A- since it is threatening with a DD up. Anyone have any opinions on this poke?
I'm sorry if this isn't the appropriate thread to ask such questions but once the current issues concerning garchomp, mega salamence, S tier, and potential creation of SS are discussed and resolved, would it be ok to discuss "lesser" pokemons? I was wondering if we can talk about the likes of rhyperior, and other pokemons that are in much lower tiers. I'd love to discuss or observe discussions concerning other pokemons. If not, I apologize.
You can bring up literally any Pokemon that has any sort of role / viability in the Battle Spot meta. I brought up a list a week or two ago of stuff that isn't ranked at all but would rank somewhat highly. I think we should work through that before we discuss retiering
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Scizor seems pretty cool, and Alakazam should definetly get ranked due to it's high special attack and speed. And rhyperior, as previously stated by me, should get ranked as well.
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Cool, cool. I didn't wan to bring up other "more interesting" pokemons since I didn't want to make the thread too chaotic. I'd like to discuss about Rhyperior since BrandonBeast mentioned it earlier and it's definitely a pokemon that I've seen every now and then on BSS. I'll just re-mention it once you, Feliburn, and others that finalize tiers decide on the likes of garchomp, mega salamence, S, and SS.
There's a few things I'll weigh in on. The big one is Mega Sharpedo, I've had a great time using this thing on the in-game ladder. Thanks again to Kotori for helping me theorymon about this shark on IRC. Dark STAB is always good for taking on huge threats like Aegislash and Gengar, but Strong Jaw Crunch off of Base 140 Attack smashes things. On top of that it can abuse its pre-Mega ability Speed Boost to get a scary jump on faster opponents coupled with a cool 105 Base Speed, though being forced to not Mega Evolve and Protect on that first turn against many things can be predictable and dangerous. Crunch is such a strong move that Water moves really aren't necessary, and that's reflected in its PGL stats. The option of Ice Fang is really all the coverage you need just for how good Ice coverage is for hitting stuff like Garchomp and Landorus (Ice Beam also works if Rocky Helmet Chomp and Intimidate scares you). Destiny Bond is also an awesome tool in 3v3, and Sharpedo's most common move at that, which is made even better if it can manage a speed boost. It's a really sneaky way to take out a bulky threat that can take any of Sharpedo's other moves, and it's one of the shark's best selling points. That said, even with slightly enhanced 70/70/65 bulk as a Mega it's still vulnerable to priority it doesn't resist (it survives Conkeldurr Mach Punch though!). It's still a blessing to allow it to actually take weaker hits and avoid being easily revenged by the dangerous Sucker Punch, so don't expect it to die to everything.
Mega Sharpedo a rather competent cleaner that can ravage whole teams with just a bit of team support, and it's got plenty to keep Blaziken from outclassing it completely. However the fact that Speed Boost is only a pre-Mega ability and the greater vulnerability to priority moves are very real shortcomings so I think a solid B rank is a good place for Mega Sharpedo. Its weaknesses are a bit restricting so B+ might be a tiny bit high, but I don't think it should be any lower than a B- rank Pokemon. I know Sash Sharpedo is a thing though I can't attest to its usefulness, though it feels a bit more niche and I don't think it's quite as dangerous as Mega Sharpedo can be.
The other thing I wanted to bring up is Escavalier for C/C- rank even though it's not on that list. You RU players know what this thing does in RU, and from what I've experienced with it Escavalier basically does the same here (Assault Vest, Choice Band...Assault Vest). Escavalier performs nicely on offense teams that really need a solid answer to Trick Room (might even function effectively on a Trick Room team itself), and I've found it to be neat on Blaziken teams in particular for that reason. Its strong STAB combo allows it to function as a cool Psychic/Fairy check with Assault Vest, and access to both Pursuit and Knock Off can really let it punish the likes of Cresselia and Porygon2 with proper VoltTurn support. Drill Run also lets you punish Fire types like Blaziken and Heatran that think they can switch in safely too. In addition to that, Overcoat gives Escavalier the ability to beat Breloom 1v1 thanks to a Spore immunity and x4 Grass resist, which is super neat. That said, Escavalier is huge setup bait for various physical threats and basically lets things like Salamence and Charizard come in for free, so it absolutely needs team support against other offensive teams. Escavalier is a nifty option for teams that struggle with slower defensive teams or Trick Room, though being setup bait for some horrifying sweepers limits its usefulness against faster offensive teams (that's not to say it's useless against them though). Regardless I think there's a place for Escavalier somewhere, and I think C/C- is that place. It could be argued for D rank instead though I think Escavalier has just enough of a niche to push it into C or C- rank.
I dragged on a lot more than I expected, but the tl;dr of it is Mega Sharpedo for B rank and Escavalier for C/C- rank. Experimenting with cool new stuff has honestly been my favorite thing about this metagame so I definitely plan to try some new things in the future.
Mega Sharpedo a rather competent cleaner that can ravage whole teams with just a bit of team support, and it's got plenty to keep Blaziken from outclassing it completely. However the fact that Speed Boost is only a pre-Mega ability and the greater vulnerability to priority moves are very real shortcomings so I think a solid B rank is a good place for Mega Sharpedo. Its weaknesses are a bit restricting so B+ might be a tiny bit high, but I don't think it should be any lower than a B- rank Pokemon. I know Sash Sharpedo is a thing though I can't attest to its usefulness, though it feels a bit more niche and I don't think it's quite as dangerous as Mega Sharpedo can be.
The other thing I wanted to bring up is Escavalier for C/C- rank even though it's not on that list. You RU players know what this thing does in RU, and from what I've experienced with it Escavalier basically does the same here (Assault Vest, Choice Band...Assault Vest). Escavalier performs nicely on offense teams that really need a solid answer to Trick Room (might even function effectively on a Trick Room team itself), and I've found it to be neat on Blaziken teams in particular for that reason. Its strong STAB combo allows it to function as a cool Psychic/Fairy check with Assault Vest, and access to both Pursuit and Knock Off can really let it punish the likes of Cresselia and Porygon2 with proper VoltTurn support. Drill Run also lets you punish Fire types like Blaziken and Heatran that think they can switch in safely too. In addition to that, Overcoat gives Escavalier the ability to beat Breloom 1v1 thanks to a Spore immunity and x4 Grass resist, which is super neat. That said, Escavalier is huge setup bait for various physical threats and basically lets things like Salamence and Charizard come in for free, so it absolutely needs team support against other offensive teams. Escavalier is a nifty option for teams that struggle with slower defensive teams or Trick Room, though being setup bait for some horrifying sweepers limits its usefulness against faster offensive teams (that's not to say it's useless against them though). Regardless I think there's a place for Escavalier somewhere, and I think C/C- is that place. It could be argued for D rank instead though I think Escavalier has just enough of a niche to push it into C or C- rank.
I dragged on a lot more than I expected, but the tl;dr of it is Mega Sharpedo for B rank and Escavalier for C/C- rank. Experimenting with cool new stuff has honestly been my favorite thing about this metagame so I definitely plan to try some new things in the future.
Gatr hasn't been ranked yet? I'll post my thoughts since I had a lot of experience using a team with it.
-----> C+/B- Feraligatr got a nice, superior ability to use a few months ago, which is Sheer Force. I honestly thought that this would make it a threat in Battle Spot when it first got released and I was super hyped to use it myself. Turns out Gatr is kinda underwhelming tbh. 105 base Attack off of a Sheer Force Boosted move like Waterfall, Crunch or Ice Punch with LO seems very strong, but it's really not enough. Gatr struggles to destroy the common walls of the metagame, even when it's at +2, and getting to +2 is hard enough when status or strong hits can easily cripple you. Lum Berry can stop the status for a turn, but Gatr loses out on a lot of necessary power. Gatr's physical bulk is above average, but when it's uninvested, it struggles to take hits of the bulky and stronger pokemon of the metagame (Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Salamence). Gatr requires a lot of team support to do its job well, it has to built around it or Gatr won't function well. When I used my Gatr in cartridge, I ended up playing about 20 games and went 16-4. Thing is though, I used Gatr only twice out of those 20 games b/c it was generally unsafe to bring it or I had better choices on my team. You can guess where two of those four losses came from. Sure, Gatr can beat many pokemon like Lando-T, Talonflame, Blaziken, Gengar, and others, but it's going to have to do so with taking a lot of prior damage due to its slow base speed. Azumarill is superior to Feraligatr in this metagame in almost every way possible, so Gatr shouldn't really be considered on try-hard teams. If Gatr only got a useful second typing like Azu, I could see it being more viable.
Alright, as usual
We have also implemented a viability council (you can read the OP for more info) and we've decided not to create an SS rank since there wouldn't be a major difference between it and regular S rank (both would work as means to let the users know that X pokemon is extremely viable in comparison to those in S rank which are still as viable and amazing).
Code:
Garchomp: A+ rank ---> S rank
Rhyperior: Unranked ---> C+ rank
Escavalier: Unranked ---> C- rank
Sharpedo & (Mega): Unranked ----> B rank
Feraligatr: Unranked ---> B- rankWe have also implemented a viability council (you can read the OP for more info) and we've decided not to create an SS rank since there wouldn't be a major difference between it and regular S rank (both would work as means to let the users know that X pokemon is extremely viable in comparison to those in S rank which are still as viable and amazing).
- Status