Surely if you're going to go to that much trouble then you would run a Corrosion user to fix that problem?
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AAA Almost Any Ability
- Thread starter UT
- Start date
Well hello all, right from when i discovered this format thanks to my friend, who goes as Femboy H00ters on the ladder, i thought it would be a cool chance to give some of my all time favourites that were normally gonna do pretty bad on ladder a chance, and the one that i decided to try out first is Vikavolt!
Strider (Vikavolt) (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 48 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 204 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
One of the main issues I've found with Vikavolt in most situations, is that sometimes it just can hit hard enough while living things that it needs to, but with adaptability that is no longer an issue! This thing has enough bulk to live all 5 hits from a 252+ Garchomp's scale shot and absolutely Wallops them in return, Straight up one shotting even 252 hp variants 75% of the time. The speed investment allows it to outspeed base speed swampert, which it can easily 2hko with bug buzz, and outspeed a base speed Corviknight, which it has no problem one shotting. Along with this, it puts a fair amount of pressure on Blissey, especially if it gets a spdef drop with bug buzz. While it is very prediction reliant, and there probably are probably better options that I could use, the fact that people don't really expect Vikavolt to do much has been getting me some fun results with it, but I'm open to suggestions!
Strider (Vikavolt) (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 48 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 204 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
One of the main issues I've found with Vikavolt in most situations, is that sometimes it just can hit hard enough while living things that it needs to, but with adaptability that is no longer an issue! This thing has enough bulk to live all 5 hits from a 252+ Garchomp's scale shot and absolutely Wallops them in return, Straight up one shotting even 252 hp variants 75% of the time. The speed investment allows it to outspeed base speed swampert, which it can easily 2hko with bug buzz, and outspeed a base speed Corviknight, which it has no problem one shotting. Along with this, it puts a fair amount of pressure on Blissey, especially if it gets a spdef drop with bug buzz. While it is very prediction reliant, and there probably are probably better options that I could use, the fact that people don't really expect Vikavolt to do much has been getting me some fun results with it, but I'm open to suggestions!
I think I remember running into this on ladder a few times! Vikavolt is absurdly powerful to be honest. My only grievance with it is the speed tier really. For that reason, I tend to run Tapu Koko as my special electric type (Dazzling Gleam for OHKOing non full spdef Garchomp is kind of nice, too) but Vikavolt can definitely put in the work :P
The Poison Heal suspect is already underway, but I realized that I never actually posted the council votes on whether to do a suspect test or go for 1 Ability Clause, so here they are:
(Interesting trivia): After mulling it over, rozes actually ended up changing his vote to [wanting to implement a] 1 Ability Clause, but by then the Poison Heal suspect was already live!
| Name | 1 Ability Clause | Poison Heal Suspect Test | Abstain |
| Thinkerino | X | ||
| xavgb (stresh) | X | ||
| Jrdn | X | ||
| rozes | X | ||
| The Number Man | X |
At some level, sure, but you're really dedicating now significant amounts of your team with the larger goal of, well, getting more crits.
You could probably run a Super Luck Scope Lens set with some move(s) that has boosted crit rate and get the same thing, and that doesn't even need multiple Pokemon all working in unison (that likely don't do too much else otherwise) to get the job done. It's equally memey, but you could argue it's even more consistent since it doesn't depend on statusing your opponent.
FWIW, here's a link to that Merciless team I made. This is obviously old and would need some changes for the current meta, but the idea is the same.
Don't get me wrong, it can be super fun to pilot, but it's really overtuning a team to a very specific win-con.
Does anyone have good ideas for a moxie setup? I need a pokemon best suited for it...
I'm not the best person to ask, as I am not very good at this meta (or in general), but I had a lot of fun with Choice Scarf Moxie/ Chilling Neigh Galarian-Zapdos. You can Brave Bird / Thunderus Kick / Close Combat stuff, get a kill, and then scare the hell out of the opponent when they realize you're moxie. Also, I feel like nobody ever expects scarf G-Zapdos for some reason, so it's a good way to get surprise kills. Biggest issue though is it feels like a lot of stuff in the meta can force G-Zapdos out, especially if you're locked into a specific move. Also you give up adaptability which is a big deal and is probably way better. Still, I found it fun.
Btw you can run As One if you really want to deny the opponent berries for some reason, but it's not really a good idea as it shows your opponent your ability.
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I've decided the move is now
KickZapdos-Galar is often MGLO so scarf could help you fake winning a speed tie in some circumstances and create some mind-games but you miss out on that chunk of damage and it's especially rough being locked into the wrong move.
Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of Moxie (and its pals) - it's definitely not bad, but things like prankster haze exist and a lot of the time I feel like I'd rather have adapt, tough claws, etc anyway.
I know that moxie isn't great, but I feel with the right combination of powerful attacks and healing, I can get the most out of it.
Any reason why regenerator nihilego is good in AAA and does anyone have a team with it?Nihilego is one of my favorite pokemon
I think it's most notable for being a great answer to Noivern, which is notorious for being difficult to check reliably, and special fire types like Blacephalon and Volcarona.
As someone stated, it's an excellent Noivern check and special wall/pivot in general. I love to use it (and give it an AV) in combination with Ferrothorn as a double regen core. Those two mons alone have tons of staying power and utility, and with the arguable exception of things like chomp ground spam, they synergize quite well against most offensive types. If you add on PH Fini and Unaware Mandibuzz, you have four of your 6 mons and a larger defensive/balance core that really has trouble dying to things, to say the least.
I highly recommend you use it if you're in need of a Noivern check, and having access to Clear Smog means that you can relatively safely stop curse sweepers and the like with ease. Knock Off is always a dream to have and the other two moves can be whatever fits your team. I personally like Power Gem (helps deter Volc and gives some offensive presence) and I'm currently running Foul Play because it deletes greedy Doublade users. Overall, there are tons of sets you can run and it can fit quite nicely on teams, especially when given the proper support.
Today I learned that Nihilego learns Foul Play. Now I want to try building a team around it.
It also learns Worry Seed, which I recently learned about the hard way. It honestly has some cool tech options.
Let me guess: Challenge Cup? Also, I'm surprised that Worry Seed is in Gen 8, considering that other early-game AI turn-wasters like Water and Mud Sport aren't.
It has a ton of super cool options! In addition to what I had mentioned:
Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock, Thunderbolt, Hex, Magic Coat, Acid Spray, Toxic Spikes,
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For those of you who aren't aware, the Almost Any Ability Old Gens Hub is now open! There you'll be able to find resources and information for previous generations of AAA. I encourage everyone to take some time to check it out!
Post AAA Open Team Dump, VR Submissions and Thoughts
I've been building loads of teams recently, and played a ton of test and ladder games for the Open. Now that it's over, time to share everything. Hopefully everyone can find something he likes using, be it HO, BO or Balance (I don't really build stall, this archetype isn't great in aaa imo).
Teams
Glatrier Balance team. Quite standart all around. I think Glastrier is extremely strong if you're able to keep Rocks away so I was Magic Bounce on Mandibuzz at first, then I realized that I was weak to some setup mons so I put Unaware. I don't think the current metagame encourages the use of Mandibuzz (as Ghost types beat it mainly), but it pairs very well with Nihilego as a Special Wall.
Another team I trust a lot. Magnet Pull Mew is here to trap any Steel type so Zarude or Latios can win. It's also very strong even when it doesn't get to trap a Steel type, since it forces very awkward plays, and sometimes it just forces a kill and you can't do anything about it. It also 6-0s stall pretty handily. You'll see in this dump that I like Kommo-o and Nihilego a lot.
Team I built with The Number Man around Triage Tapu Lele. It might be the one I trust the most. Double Regenerator + double Poison Heal is usually hard to do, but here it works, making the team extremely resilient. Triage Tapu Lele is one of the most underrated threats currently, and most teams I see are straight up 6-0d (even this one is weak to it lol).
Braindead HO team I laddered with a lot. Not much to say, just get up Rocks and try to win. Dazzling Garchomp is surprisingly good.
The plan here is to lure Tapu Fini or Toxapex with Galvanize Kommo-o so that Barraskewda can win the game. It can also lure Mummy Corviknight for Snorlax. This is a Barraskewda team so it's weak to Tapu Bulu, which is why I put Poison Jab on Garchomp, and some evs to live +2 Horn Leech.
This team tries to win in 2 different ways. Heatran and Noivern try to break specially defensive cores, and DTail Rocks Garchomp + Toxic Tapu Bulu try to break physically defensive cores. Mummy Corviknight + Regenerator Garchomp can be an iffy defensive core but the team makes up with the offensive pressure.
Standart team featuring Taunt Zapdos-G, which I really wanted to try.
Pretty wild team inspired by Siamato. The gameplan is to put maximum pressure on Ground types with Sticky Barbs Archeops, Knock Off Thundurus and Grass Knot Tapu Koko. Once they're dead you should easily find your way in. Colbur Mew so Weavile doesn't 6-0 too easily (it's still bad).
meme
The best way to support broken Noivern is hazards, so here is a hazards stacking team featuring Noivern. Double Poison Heal makes it hard to deal with using standart defensive cores.
Band Tinted Heracross team. This pokemon doesn't need particular support to break teams so I put together standart mons I trust. The defensive core could probably be optimized.
This is probably the most braindead team I've ever built. Double Tinted Lens Psyspam HO. I think Psyspam is underrated right now, as Darks are nowhere to be seen. unburden Kommo-o under terrain is a killer too. Magic bounce Corviknight might look awkward but you really need it to prevent Rocks from going up, otherwise you lose your sashes. I'm sorry to anyone who will play against this on ladder.
Elec spam bulky offense I enjoy using a lot. Very hard to win against Garchomp + Silvally-Electric and that kind of cores, but Xurkitree usually finds its way in with correct play.
Some
Other
Teams
Yes,
I build
Too
Much
Going Forward
It's actually hard to build in this metagame. The thing is there are tons of reasons, and maybe that's the nature of AAA after all. I'll talk about the things that restrict building the most (won't mention Poison Heal since it's being suspected right now).
- Noivern. This pokemon's viable answers can be counted on the finger of one hand, yet you're absolutely forced to have one of them, otherwise you will lose. And even if everyone is prepared for it, the ways you can abuse its counters are numerous ; plus it just guarantees very good speed control and momentum to any team.
- Genesect. End the joke, ban this lol
- Weavile. Same as Noivern, except it doesn't have U-Turn nor good defensive utility. Weavile is an annoying presence in general, as it can 6-0 teams hands down, but also do absolutely nothing when it gets countered.
- Triage. Every good Triage user is a problem right now. Tapu Bulu is an equation that still hasn't been solved, Togekiss is absolutely insane, Tapu Lele 6-0s most teams because people don't expect it for now, Geng... well not this one. Is it due to them being broken, or is it due to Triage being broken ? The only thing I'm sure of is that they're pains to account for in the builder, and if you forget them there is no way to stop them.
- Regenerator. Probably more than half the teams I build have 2 Regenerator users. This ability is the most meta-defining without a doubt. People complain less about it because it doesn't give breaking power, it doesn't make any mon stronger on paper (like if Mew answers Garchomp, it will also answer Regenerator Garchomp). But it's also ridiculously good compared to the other abilities when you think about it.
- Blacephalon. Huge threat with many ways of dealing with its answers (Knock Off, Taunt, Calm Mind, Explosion, Psyshock). Another defining force of the teambuilder.
- Garchomp. Garchomp has so many sets and possible uses. A lot of teams are 6-0d by some kind of SD Garchomp with coverage for everything. Probably the best pokémon in the tier all around.
- Alakazam, Zarude, Archeops, Gengar, Zapdos-G, Terrakion, Volcarona every one of these is an enormous threat that your defensive core should be able to deal with somehow.
Choices will have to be made regarding what to ban and what to not ban. Everything I mentionned above is potentially broken, and I think there are 2 possible approaches right now, a right-wing one and a left-wing one. The conservative one would be to keep the identity of the meta and only ban the truly problematic mons (like Genesect, for example) while keeping Regenerator, Poison Heal, Noivern and stuff like that that define building. The progressist one would be to try making something different by banning a lot of stuff. To be honest I think both approaches have their merits, and I don't think there is an objectively better one. AAA will probably always be hard to build for and somewhat restricted regarding the defensive cores.
Various thoughts
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You probably noticed I've used Regenerator Kommo-o a TON in the Open, I think this mon is the new wave. It counters mons that are usually hard to prepare for like Zarude, Tapu Bulu and Archeops (even some Garchomps). It's not passive at all thanks to the broken Iron Defense + Body Press combination, along with Rocks and Dragon Tail. It pairs particularly well with Dauntless Shield Mew and Intimidate Corviknight (as much as I dislike using both).-
This pokemon is an insane threat, maybe banworthy of Poison Heal remains. It's just not dealt with by standart defensive cores. Thank God it's weak to Rocks. It also has nice defensive utility, dealing with Weavile and Tapu Fini notably.-
Just use Noivern if you wanna win man. This mon is the truth. You can't go wrong if you put it in your team.-
I already said it, but I think Tapu Lele and Togekiss are absolutely insane, and maybe even banworthy. They sweep teams like it's nothing.- I think Balance and Bulky Offense (2 or 3 offensive mons / 3 or 4 defensive mons) are by far the best archetypes right now, without even a question. HO suffers from huge breakers like Noivern and Blacephalon, taking a kill every time you let them come in. Stall and Semi-Stall suffer from not being able to wear down teams at all, because of Regenerator and Poison Heal ; meaning they get outlasted instead of outlasting the opposing team.
VR Submissions (OUTDATED AFTER PH BAN)
Rises :
from A+ to S - The whole metagame revolves around this pokemon. from A to A+ - Everyone uses Corviknight, this pokemon is just extremely reliable and splashable, even if a bit passive. I think Intimidate Corviknight is overrated to some extent, but it still deserves a rise. from A to A+ - Most reliable wall right now ; same as Corviknight, you can make an argument for it being overrated, but it's up there. from A to A+ - One of the best breakers, extremely reliable, lots of options. from A- to A - Immense threat, very hard to deal with, very good at wearing down teams. from A- to A+ - One of the best physical walls, I genuinely think it deserves A+. from A- to A - Nihilego is a reliable special wall that's always very pleasant to use and very unpleasant to face since it can make progress very easily with Knock Off, Sludge Bomb and Stealth Rock. from A- to A - Silvally-Electric has established itself as one of the best if not the best spdef pivots. It's always reliable, and gives you the choice of either beating an attacker 1v1, or u-turning to a faster threat. from A- to A - I think swampert and Tapu Fini seing a bit less usage recently has let some room for Toxapex to re-establish itself as one of the best walls. It still covers a large amount of threats and makes you safe from any kind of setup cheese. from B+ to A- or A - I already said it, tremendous threat.Drops :
from A+ to A - I think people, including me, have realized Aercheops misses, and that it can't ever break Garchomp nor Swampert since they always have Regenerator.
from A to A- or B+ - People don't use Entei much, as it lacks power and speed compared to other breakers.
from A to A- - Moltres has fallen in usage, as there is a lot of competition for the Flying type slot with Corviknight, Noivern, Zapdos, Mandibuzz and Togekiss ; and it's not bulky enough usually.
from A to A- - I think Tyranitar is very hard to justify currently. It still has a niche as Noivern and Blacephalon answer, but even then it can be unreliable at dealing with those.
from A- to B+ - No one used Grimmsnarl in the Open, and I think it's logical. This mon is too frail and too slow for the mediocre breaking power it offers, compared to Zarude for example.
from A- to B+ - Hydreigon is nowhere to be seen. It's very hard to justify over things like Noivern, Blacephalon, Gengar, etc.
from A- to B+ - A RegenVest user that's weak to rocks, not a good mix. No one uses Incineroar, it's quite unreliable currently.
from A- to B+ - Justifying Poison Heal Primarina over Fini is impossible ; Triage Primarina over Togekiss or Lele is impossible. The only set is Specs PSea, but it's too slow for what it offers imo.
from A- to B+ or B - This mon is just bad tbh. It never breaks, and always fails to lure Garchomp. I think the only way you can justify it is as a Screens setter.
from A- to B+ or B - Garchomp and Swampert killed Talonflame. This mon is almost impossible to justify currently I think.The whole B rank to UR - Every pokemon in B rank is pure trash, i don't see a reason to keep them on the VR.
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Cool team but Zarude should probably use Tough Claws, the damage loss on your STABs is negligible compared to the damage boost on Iron Tail and U-Turn. This generally goes for any offensive Zarude set I suppose, unless you have somehow already used two Tough Claws slots on your team.
The only situation where Zarude gets to click anything other than a STAB move is either on Bulu or Togekiss, which it ohkoes with Iron Tail after rocks anyway, or on a counter like Kommo-o or Intimidate Zapdos/Corviknight, where you click U-Turn. The damage boost on U-Turn is negligible on these, so I figured let’s maximize damage on our STABs.
I'm posting this so I can share some of my thoughts on the metagame in this thread instead of just posting them on discord. I tested and discussed the meta alot with Atha throughout the Open, so I agree with a big majority of what he said, but I wanted to cover some things that weren't mentioned yet as well. I'll post some teams too, because I think they help demonstrate the things I'm going to be talking about. I built at least 20 teams over the course of the open, but i wasn't 100% happy with any of them, which I guess could be an indication of the state of the meta, since the sentiment of an inability to build a team you're perfectly confident in seems to be shared by other players as well. Still there's some that i think were built around a solid concept and also performed adequately in practice.
Teams
1)
The idea behind this team was to exploit low pex usage combined with the fact that fitting a good Noivern counter AND a good PH fini counter on teams is very hard (Blissey gets tricked by Noivern if Bounce, doesn't reliably pressure Fini if regen; Silvally is setup fodder for Fini etc.) with the idea that one of these two will have a very favorable matchup which can be leveraged in order to win the game. The rest of the team is just counterplay for common threats at the time I built this, this notably gets owned by Glastrier for example.
2)
Bounce Latias is an underrated pick, one that I haven't really seen anyone use, apart from Rozes when i played some tests vs him during OMWC. It switches pretty reliably into rocks Chomp and Swampert (and Hippo) uses Ferro and Tran as setup fodder while beating Fini 1v1 with setup advantage due to Psyshock. I coupled it with Whirpool Tapu Fini and WSpirit Ferro, with the idea that Whirlpool Fini will eventually bait Lax into attacking, at which point I go into Ferro, chunking it low or killing it enabling a Latias/Volc sweep.
3)
This was built around Levitate Staka as a counter to various Dragons (Chomp and Vern most specifially), as well as PH glastrier since I built this for my series vs QT. It features the so called "Broken Fini" which is just Double Dance Fini except its Regen over PH cause the meta was saturated with PH counterplay, but also features PH SD Edgechomp cause the meta was moving towards Mummy Corv as a PH Chomp answer and Edgechomp just destroys these teams.
4) 
I never ended up using this mainly because it has an atrocious MU vs CM fini unless you manage to get them to come in on SD from Chomp and 2hko with quake or they let it get tricked by Blace. But the concept is sound imo, 3 special attackers, 2 of them with Trick should in theory enable Togekiss sweeps extremely well. A notable inclusion is Regen Chomp over PH. This was done mainly because I think no SD chomp is just bad (and PH chomp needs to pick between SD and Rocks, I wanted both). SD in combination with longevity is what makes Chomp so terrifying to face. Remove SD and it just sits there, being unkillable but not exerting meaningful pressure. It's quite possible that Vally should be replaced with Blissey/Chansey on this team, giving it actual Fini counterplay, as Togekiss can kinda tank Noivern hits if needed, but I posted it as it was built.
5) 
This is one of the teams I used to ladder during Kyurem suspect. It features one of my favorite sets - "Slow" Scale Shot Chomp. Idr what the HP evs do, but the atk evs let it 2hko Daunt Mew at +2 while the speed evs let it outspeed Barra at +1. Garchomp doesn't actually need much speed even if offensive, since the real speed benchmarks (imo) start at Zarude. Everything slower than Zarude (apart from genesect) is either nonexistent or just doesn't run speed. The reason I like this set so much is it breaks for itself extremely well. The only things that really stand up to it are certain Unawares (uncommon), FF Corv/Steela (nowhere to be seen), Togekiss, IceBeam Dauntless Mew (doesn't ohko so you can regen the chip) and Levitate Staka (rare). Since Corv/Bulu are the most common forms of counterplay, this set can chunk/kill them at +2 while regening any chip on switchout in order to sweep after the check is weakened/removed.
6)
Another Edgechomp team, this one features VA tran cause its insanely weak to Koko otherwise. But the two standout sets here are MG Cuno and Scarf CM Regen Fini. I think both need adjusted ev spreads to fulfill their intended role better - fini needs to outspeed adamant 95 without a scarf and Cuno needs more bulk. Cuno was intended as a way to beat cm fini 1v1 by outspeeding, cming up alongside and eventually psyshocking. I think this set would benefit immensely from magpull support as that prevents corviknight from pivoting in and slowturning out into revengekillers. The fini was intended as a soft noivern lure, but primarily as a way to exploit the brokenness of CM Fini while not losing to PH counterplay. Fini thus Tricks a Scarf onto mons like Tran, Volcarona and Blissey and then wins the game later when it can CM up.
7)
This is a very old team, but one that tries to support Barra with Kiss + Genesect, two offensive Triage/Priority checks with the idea that Kiss/Sect sahre the same offensive checks while sporting limited defensive counterplay, thus letting them break for eachother - enabling Kiss sweeps after Sect weakens their Fire type or vice versa.
Thoughts on metagame trends
1) Bulky setup of the PH and Regen variety
I think Garchomp (6/7 of the teams i posted feature Chomp lmao) and Noivern are the two best mons in the meta and they coincidentally also pair well together, as Noivern offensively checks the relevant offensive Garchomp checks such as Zarude, Bulu and Golisopod. They notably both lose to Togekiss so they need support for that (Shoutouts to Elecvally, my most common Garchomp partner) but not much else beats both of them as Corviknight variants also only ever beat one of them depending on investment As already stated, I think PH SD Chomp is by far the best Chomp, Regen SD coming in a close second, followed by Scarfchomp due to revengekilling, lure potential and role compression. PH no SD is the worst of the bunch because it just doesnt muscle past anything you want chomp to muscle past, its value is purely defensive.
Fini is similarly powerful, but again I think CM PH fini is by far the best - for the same reason as SD Chomp. Any PH set is unkillable in the right matchup, but only setup PH autowins those games. The forced overprevalence of PH counterplay otoh is what makes alternative sets for these mons viable as well. Toxic is uncommon, so something like Regen CM Fini can exert a similar amount of pressure as PH Fini would while freeing up a moveslot and not being forced out by Skill Swap. Another thing that needs to be mentioned is that both Chomp and Fini have bodies that are extremely well positioned in the current meta, its not just PH that breaks them. Both of them are hit super effectively by a very small set of mons which makes them hard to OHKO - thus skyrocketing the powerlevel of incremental reovery from PH/Regen.
2) Bulky setup of the Triage variety
One thing I tried to do more of but was generally unsuccessful at was building with Triage. Triage is another very powerful ability that enables easy wins in the right matchups, but its been my impression that barring Bulu the abusers aren't that easy to build with for various reasons (Pod and Kiss are rocks weak and thus require bounce for optimal performance, whereas Tapu Lele doesn't fit neatly on common structures in my experience). Something that has recently occured to me however is that due to the bulk investment that Triage sweepers usually run, minimal chip is required in order to muscle past defensive checks. Offensive checks (Noivern for Bulu/Pod/Conk, Genesect/Gengar for Togekiss/Lele), are actually what often prevents these mons from sweeping. With that in mind, my hunch is that optimal Triage teambuilding is Triage spam or at least typespam with the idea that Golisopod chunks Noivern down to 30% so Bulu can finish the job, or Genesect bringing Heatran to 50% so that Togekiss can Flamethrower for the kill.
3) PH suspect and 1AC
One reason I voted for PH sus over 1AC is because 1AC really only hits regen, not poison heal. And while both options reduce the number of passive recovery slots, PH counterplay is way more specific than is regen counterplay, mostly due to the ingame situations that it creates. An important part of PH is that it punishes your opponent for switching, healing, defogging - basically doing anything that doesn't directly damage the Phealer or exert some form of offensive pressure - thus it makes you win stalemate positions. This pattern can only be broken by resetting PH with ability manipulation. Regen (the ability that would be hurt most by 1AC) otoh, while it does reward you for switching, it is at its worst when your mon is stalemated vs your opponent's mon, as regenerators often drop recovery in favor of additional coverage/utility. Thus regenerator should in theory always promote more dynamic gameplay than PH.
With that out of the way, I don't necessarily dislike this meta nor do I really want Poison Heal gone. I am also really wary of overzealous banwaves because i could see them leading to the loss of AAA's core identity, which imo is defined by Triage, Regen, PHeal, Mbounce, Mguard and select hyperoptimized breakers such as Noivern (Aerilate) and Gengar (Sheer Force). That said, I think banning PHeal could be a step in the right direction if our goal is a more balanced AAA, so i will most likely be (reluctantly) voting ban.
Teams
1)
The idea behind this team was to exploit low pex usage combined with the fact that fitting a good Noivern counter AND a good PH fini counter on teams is very hard (Blissey gets tricked by Noivern if Bounce, doesn't reliably pressure Fini if regen; Silvally is setup fodder for Fini etc.) with the idea that one of these two will have a very favorable matchup which can be leveraged in order to win the game. The rest of the team is just counterplay for common threats at the time I built this, this notably gets owned by Glastrier for example.
2)
Bounce Latias is an underrated pick, one that I haven't really seen anyone use, apart from Rozes when i played some tests vs him during OMWC. It switches pretty reliably into rocks Chomp and Swampert (and Hippo) uses Ferro and Tran as setup fodder while beating Fini 1v1 with setup advantage due to Psyshock. I coupled it with Whirpool Tapu Fini and WSpirit Ferro, with the idea that Whirlpool Fini will eventually bait Lax into attacking, at which point I go into Ferro, chunking it low or killing it enabling a Latias/Volc sweep.
3)
This was built around Levitate Staka as a counter to various Dragons (Chomp and Vern most specifially), as well as PH glastrier since I built this for my series vs QT. It features the so called "Broken Fini" which is just Double Dance Fini except its Regen over PH cause the meta was saturated with PH counterplay, but also features PH SD Edgechomp cause the meta was moving towards Mummy Corv as a PH Chomp answer and Edgechomp just destroys these teams.
4)
I never ended up using this mainly because it has an atrocious MU vs CM fini unless you manage to get them to come in on SD from Chomp and 2hko with quake or they let it get tricked by Blace. But the concept is sound imo, 3 special attackers, 2 of them with Trick should in theory enable Togekiss sweeps extremely well. A notable inclusion is Regen Chomp over PH. This was done mainly because I think no SD chomp is just bad (and PH chomp needs to pick between SD and Rocks, I wanted both). SD in combination with longevity is what makes Chomp so terrifying to face. Remove SD and it just sits there, being unkillable but not exerting meaningful pressure. It's quite possible that Vally should be replaced with Blissey/Chansey on this team, giving it actual Fini counterplay, as Togekiss can kinda tank Noivern hits if needed, but I posted it as it was built.
5)
This is one of the teams I used to ladder during Kyurem suspect. It features one of my favorite sets - "Slow" Scale Shot Chomp. Idr what the HP evs do, but the atk evs let it 2hko Daunt Mew at +2 while the speed evs let it outspeed Barra at +1. Garchomp doesn't actually need much speed even if offensive, since the real speed benchmarks (imo) start at Zarude. Everything slower than Zarude (apart from genesect) is either nonexistent or just doesn't run speed. The reason I like this set so much is it breaks for itself extremely well. The only things that really stand up to it are certain Unawares (uncommon), FF Corv/Steela (nowhere to be seen), Togekiss, IceBeam Dauntless Mew (doesn't ohko so you can regen the chip) and Levitate Staka (rare). Since Corv/Bulu are the most common forms of counterplay, this set can chunk/kill them at +2 while regening any chip on switchout in order to sweep after the check is weakened/removed.
6)
Another Edgechomp team, this one features VA tran cause its insanely weak to Koko otherwise. But the two standout sets here are MG Cuno and Scarf CM Regen Fini. I think both need adjusted ev spreads to fulfill their intended role better - fini needs to outspeed adamant 95 without a scarf and Cuno needs more bulk. Cuno was intended as a way to beat cm fini 1v1 by outspeeding, cming up alongside and eventually psyshocking. I think this set would benefit immensely from magpull support as that prevents corviknight from pivoting in and slowturning out into revengekillers. The fini was intended as a soft noivern lure, but primarily as a way to exploit the brokenness of CM Fini while not losing to PH counterplay. Fini thus Tricks a Scarf onto mons like Tran, Volcarona and Blissey and then wins the game later when it can CM up.
7)
This is a very old team, but one that tries to support Barra with Kiss + Genesect, two offensive Triage/Priority checks with the idea that Kiss/Sect sahre the same offensive checks while sporting limited defensive counterplay, thus letting them break for eachother - enabling Kiss sweeps after Sect weakens their Fire type or vice versa.
Thoughts on metagame trends
1) Bulky setup of the PH and Regen variety
I think Garchomp (6/7 of the teams i posted feature Chomp lmao) and Noivern are the two best mons in the meta and they coincidentally also pair well together, as Noivern offensively checks the relevant offensive Garchomp checks such as Zarude, Bulu and Golisopod. They notably both lose to Togekiss so they need support for that (Shoutouts to Elecvally, my most common Garchomp partner) but not much else beats both of them as Corviknight variants also only ever beat one of them depending on investment As already stated, I think PH SD Chomp is by far the best Chomp, Regen SD coming in a close second, followed by Scarfchomp due to revengekilling, lure potential and role compression. PH no SD is the worst of the bunch because it just doesnt muscle past anything you want chomp to muscle past, its value is purely defensive.
Fini is similarly powerful, but again I think CM PH fini is by far the best - for the same reason as SD Chomp. Any PH set is unkillable in the right matchup, but only setup PH autowins those games. The forced overprevalence of PH counterplay otoh is what makes alternative sets for these mons viable as well. Toxic is uncommon, so something like Regen CM Fini can exert a similar amount of pressure as PH Fini would while freeing up a moveslot and not being forced out by Skill Swap. Another thing that needs to be mentioned is that both Chomp and Fini have bodies that are extremely well positioned in the current meta, its not just PH that breaks them. Both of them are hit super effectively by a very small set of mons which makes them hard to OHKO - thus skyrocketing the powerlevel of incremental reovery from PH/Regen.
2) Bulky setup of the Triage variety
One thing I tried to do more of but was generally unsuccessful at was building with Triage. Triage is another very powerful ability that enables easy wins in the right matchups, but its been my impression that barring Bulu the abusers aren't that easy to build with for various reasons (Pod and Kiss are rocks weak and thus require bounce for optimal performance, whereas Tapu Lele doesn't fit neatly on common structures in my experience). Something that has recently occured to me however is that due to the bulk investment that Triage sweepers usually run, minimal chip is required in order to muscle past defensive checks. Offensive checks (Noivern for Bulu/Pod/Conk, Genesect/Gengar for Togekiss/Lele), are actually what often prevents these mons from sweeping. With that in mind, my hunch is that optimal Triage teambuilding is Triage spam or at least typespam with the idea that Golisopod chunks Noivern down to 30% so Bulu can finish the job, or Genesect bringing Heatran to 50% so that Togekiss can Flamethrower for the kill.
3) PH suspect and 1AC
One reason I voted for PH sus over 1AC is because 1AC really only hits regen, not poison heal. And while both options reduce the number of passive recovery slots, PH counterplay is way more specific than is regen counterplay, mostly due to the ingame situations that it creates. An important part of PH is that it punishes your opponent for switching, healing, defogging - basically doing anything that doesn't directly damage the Phealer or exert some form of offensive pressure - thus it makes you win stalemate positions. This pattern can only be broken by resetting PH with ability manipulation. Regen (the ability that would be hurt most by 1AC) otoh, while it does reward you for switching, it is at its worst when your mon is stalemated vs your opponent's mon, as regenerators often drop recovery in favor of additional coverage/utility. Thus regenerator should in theory always promote more dynamic gameplay than PH.
With that out of the way, I don't necessarily dislike this meta nor do I really want Poison Heal gone. I am also really wary of overzealous banwaves because i could see them leading to the loss of AAA's core identity, which imo is defined by Triage, Regen, PHeal, Mbounce, Mguard and select hyperoptimized breakers such as Noivern (Aerilate) and Gengar (Sheer Force). That said, I think banning PHeal could be a step in the right direction if our goal is a more balanced AAA, so i will most likely be (reluctantly) voting ban.
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I would agree if the damage increase wasn't so small. The damage decrease of Tough Claws Darkest Lariat is in fact smaller than the damage increase of Tough Claws U-turn against Corviknight. Meanwhile the Iron Tail damage increase is actually pretty relevant because it secures you OHKOs without rocks.
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Zarude Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 188-222 (50.4 - 59.5%)
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Zarude Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 193-228 (51.7 - 61.1%)
252 Atk Choice Band Zarude Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 322-380 (86.3 - 101.8%)
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Zarude Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 418-494 (112 - 132.4%)
With the 60% pro-ban majority met, Poison Heal is now banned from AAA!
The council will continue to observe the meta as it develops in the wake of such a massive change. Poison Heal was recognized by many as a staple ability in AAA, and as such its absence means that teambuilding trends will see massive shifts and it might take some time before things are stabilized. I ask that before having a knee-jerk reaction and calling for an immediate ban of anything that might seem broken out of the gate, take some time to really examine the pokemon or ability in question to see if it's truly problematic or just needs time for things to settle. That being said, discussion on all parts of the meta is certainly welcome, and I look forward to reading about whatever discoveries are made in this new version of AAA :]
Happy building!
Tagging Kris just in case
The council will continue to observe the meta as it develops in the wake of such a massive change. Poison Heal was recognized by many as a staple ability in AAA, and as such its absence means that teambuilding trends will see massive shifts and it might take some time before things are stabilized. I ask that before having a knee-jerk reaction and calling for an immediate ban of anything that might seem broken out of the gate, take some time to really examine the pokemon or ability in question to see if it's truly problematic or just needs time for things to settle. That being said, discussion on all parts of the meta is certainly welcome, and I look forward to reading about whatever discoveries are made in this new version of AAA :]
Happy building!
Tagging Kris just in case
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Note: I'm not that experienced in this tier, so please don't throw hands if I sound uneducated.
I would like to share a power offensive core that I think would be pretty good.
I'll keep this simple, it's a choice offensive core that breaks each other's checks and helps weaken the opposition easily. Adamant ada (lol ada ad) Lucario can 2hko dauntless corv, and pretty much everything bar mew. This is where hydreigon comes in, mega launcher specs hydreigon is also a very threating breaker that also has limited switch-ins. Its switch-ins are pretty much limited to chansey/blissey, and fairy types, which Lucario can get u-turned in a punch a hole in their team, allowing your faster speed control to pick off enemies easier. These 2 also put a lot of fairy types with repeated assaults, even overwhelming some with rock support. The sets could probably be optimized and hydreigon could maybe be replaced, but basically, the idea is that ada ada lucario comes in and punches holes. keep in mind that defensively these two suck ass, so you'll need a pivot and a defensive backbone. pair these to with a set-up sweeper of choice, and that mon will have a nice time scavenging up ur opponents.
Note: Looking at this aerilate noivern would probably work better then drei, but I'm not super sure but u can test it ut.
I would like to share a power offensive core that I think would be pretty good.
3headedbeast (Hydreigon) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Earth Power
- U-turn
Luke (Lucario) @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Blaze Kick
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Earth Power
- U-turn
Luke (Lucario) @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Blaze Kick
I'll keep this simple, it's a choice offensive core that breaks each other's checks and helps weaken the opposition easily. Adamant ada (lol ada ad) Lucario can 2hko dauntless corv, and pretty much everything bar mew. This is where hydreigon comes in, mega launcher specs hydreigon is also a very threating breaker that also has limited switch-ins. Its switch-ins are pretty much limited to chansey/blissey, and fairy types, which Lucario can get u-turned in a punch a hole in their team, allowing your faster speed control to pick off enemies easier. These 2 also put a lot of fairy types with repeated assaults, even overwhelming some with rock support. The sets could probably be optimized and hydreigon could maybe be replaced, but basically, the idea is that ada ada lucario comes in and punches holes. keep in mind that defensively these two suck ass, so you'll need a pivot and a defensive backbone. pair these to with a set-up sweeper of choice, and that mon will have a nice time scavenging up ur opponents.
Note: Looking at this aerilate noivern would probably work better then drei, but I'm not super sure but u can test it ut.
Note: I'm not that experienced in this tier, so please don't throw hands if I sound uneducated.
I would like to share a power offensive core that I think would be pretty good.
3headedbeast (Hydreigon) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Earth Power
- U-turn
Luke (Lucario) @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Blaze Kick
I'll keep this simple, it's a choice offensive core that breaks each other's checks and helps weaken the opposition easily. Adamant ada (lol ada ad) Lucario can 2hko dauntless corv, and pretty much everything bar mew. This is where hydreigon comes in, mega launcher specs hydreigon is also a very threating breaker that also has limited switch-ins. Its switch-ins are pretty much limited to chansey/blissey, and fairy types, which Lucario can get u-turned in a punch a hole in their team, allowing your faster speed control to pick off enemies easier. These 2 also put a lot of fairy types with repeated assaults, even overwhelming some with rock support. The sets could probably be optimized and hydreigon could maybe be replaced, but basically, the idea is that ada ada lucario comes in and punches holes. keep in mind that defensively these two suck ass, so you'll need a pivot and a defensive backbone. pair these to with a set-up sweeper of choice, and that mon will have a nice time scavenging up ur opponents.
Note: Looking at this aerilate noivern would probably work better then drei, but I'm not super sure but u can test it ut.
Love these sets and they have lots of power! But what annihilates this core is any kind of Pixilate Extreme Speed / Fake Out or Triage Draining Kiss set. Maybe something to deal with impending attacks like these? Cool sets though! :)