Tournaments ADVPL V Format Discussion

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goldmason

goldmason

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Good morning everyone, this is goldmason, and I will be the primary host for ADVPL V! Considering player signups go up in about a month, I wanted to get the ball rolling on format for this upcoming tournament.

As a refresher, ADVPL IV was an 8 team, 10 slot tour. The slots were as follows:
ADV Ubers
ADV OU
ADV OU
ADV OU
ADV OU BO3
ADV UU
ADV NU
ADV PU
ADV LC
ADV DOU

As far as format goes, the change from 6 to 8 teams feels pretty universally well received, but let us know what you think. The number and tiers of slots are more open for discussion.

Tagging last year's managers and hosts to get the conversation going: ziloXX Endill SEROO Lhions -Howkings Fogbound Lake SEA Hclat ima lax Jirachee Colteor Elian BigFatMantis Zacpz Glue susciety Murm Lialiabeast

Additionally, I am looking for two cohosts for ADVPL V. Feel free to DM me on smogon or reach out on Discord @ goldmason.

EDIT: Cohosts found, thank you!!

Happy discussion!!
 
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Idt theres much point in changing the format much, tournament ran well last year.

I think if theres enough support for it, you can cut the 3rd Bo1 ADV OU slot for another lower tier that doesnt see as much representation in team tournaments (something like ZU) since its a lot easier to play ADV OU than the fringe tiers that have been cropping up, but i digress. We could also just expand with 2 more slots outright, but I'm concerned that a potential 2nd new tier would have too much overlap with the rest of the signup pool to justify.

Also, will there be retains?
 
I suggest the format
ADV OU x6/8
BO3 OU
ADV UU

I have multiple issues with most lower tiers and would not like to see anything past UU included, and having played NU, PU, ZU pretty extensively, I think I have the background to back up my opinions on at least several of them. The ADV NU playerbase is clearly uninterested in changing their tier for the better, allowing the ridiculous Glalie and its uncontestable Spikes to continue to dominate in both the builder and the match. The tier has extremely little backbone to make any bring feel consistent and there is realistically little diversity in play. I think PU is a much better tier, but still struggles with an unhealthy amount of paralysis, with probably 70% of teams fielding 2-4 forms of paralysis, which when coupled with Trapinch and lots of Substitute spam is overall a negative experience. As previously mentioned, the ADV DOU playerbase did not fare well after the recent ban to boom, but I have next to no experience in it or LC to comment.

I'm of the opinion these tiers should be left to their individuals and lower tier pl's to maintain a tournament scene. A mostly ADV OU tournament would improve both the quality of the tiers being played and the activity between the players, as my teammates (reasonably) would have virtually zero reason to look at my ADV NU/PU channels.

I know this is probably controversial to the lower tier players, I would feel bad if my tier got axed as well, but the reality is that there is still the lower tier forum tournaments to play them in, and I have similar issues for the vast majority of lower tiers I play in other generations, I will bring up this conversation again when BWPL rolls around.

Edit: I've been told by the very experienced player, SuperEpicAmpharos, that ADV Ubers also sucks shit too, so axe that one as well. idk anything about uu either tho but fruhdazi told me it sucks so whatever
 
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Monai said:
I suggest the format
ADV OU x5/7
BO3 OU
ADV Ubers
ADV UU

I have multiple issues with most lower tiers and would not like to see anything past UU included, and having played NU, PU, ZU pretty extensively, I think I have the background to back up my opinions on at least several of them. The ADV NU playerbase is clearly uninterested in changing their tier for the better, allowing the ridiculous Glalie and its uncontestable Spikes to continue to dominate in both the builder and the match. The tier has extremely little backbone to make any bring feel consistent and there is realistically little diversity in play. I think PU is a much better tier, but still struggles with an unhealthy amount of paralysis, with probably 70% of teams fielding 2-4 forms of paralysis, which when coupled with Trapinch and lots of Substitute spam is overall a negative experience. As previously mentioned, the ADV DOU playerbase did not fare well after the recent ban to boom, but I have next to no experience in it or LC to comment.

I'm of the opinion these tiers should be left to their individuals and lower tier pl's to maintain a tournament scene. A mostly ADV OU tournament would improve both the quality of the tiers being played and the activity between the players, as my teammates (reasonably) would have virtually zero reason to look at my ADV NU/PU channels.

I know this is probably controversial to the lower tier players, I would feel bad if my tier got axed as well, but the reality is that there is still the lower tier forum tournaments to play them in, and I have similar issues for the vast majority of lower tiers I play in other generations, I will bring up this conversation again when BWPL rolls around.
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Gonna preface this with I like 10 slots, incl 4ou.

UU is like watching paint dry (Free UUBL), but it is popular so this doesnt seem the time for that.

NU has been being played without Glalie in ALTPL, probs worth checking in with their tier leaders on their plans following the tour.

Ubers seems to generally have healthy interest.

I think it may be useful to gauge interest for RU, PU and ZU too, if they're viable tiers its worth knowing asap.

Keep LC

Decide on killing DOU or not depending on the RU/PU/ZU viability?

Free UUBL
 
not much to say this year that i didn't say last year regarding adv lc, but i'll say it again

adv lc continues to enjoy a sizeable (or sizeable enough to easily support a slot in a team tournament, anyways - you can check out what the tier is like now in the ongoing little cup big cup) and dedicated playerbase even today. i still strive to keep all metagame resources (which include a viability ranking, sample teams, role compendium, and speed tier list and can be viewed here) up to date, making it very easy to pick up and play for new players. since last advpl, there has been some tiering action (thunder wave and porygon are now banned) but i keep a history of all major adv lc events in the op of the adv lc thread, so if you haven't kept up to date with adv lc it's very easy to catch up with what's happened.

given that the tier is in about the same place it was last year activity wise and that it was enjoyed by the adv lc playerbase last year i think that there's no reason not to include it again this year.
 
Just a quick little post before i sleep.

8 teams was great, nothing against it, 6 feels weird.
ADV DOU, should be bo3, the amount gentlemen's bo3 we had last year where more than not. I'm not saying you should force it, but if it doesn't change i feel like last years gonna repeat itself where one dude will say no to the bo3 and everyone else will play a bo3. ( Or just remove it , there's like 2 people who actually enjoy the tier, a 5yo could play it , no offence)
OU wise , i think 3xOU , 1xBO3OU was fine and was taken pretty well by community members with no complaints.
I must agree with monai in the sense that PU/NU feels a bit strange, the tiers didn't feel super competitive even tho i understand why they are there and will probably not change, but i feel like the addition of zu or ru would just be bad. Either change PU > ZU, as from what I myself have experienced ( not saying I'm 100% right ) the community and metagame seems to have developed a lot more and are more consistent in the tier.
Lastly here at GOO GOO CLAYDOLS industry we stan ADVLC.
 
Just my opinion (maybe considering managing) --

I think I'd pretty strongly caution against any additional slots. Last year, if anything, I felt like we were already maybe slightly over the edge of too many players.

I'd propose two Bo3 OU slots instead of just one (removing one Bo1 OU slot). Understanding all the negatives of it, personally I actually kind of like Bo1 and wouldn't want it done away with entirely, but half Bo3 and half Bo1 seems fair.

If you're gonna cut any tier in order to add a different tier, I think the clear #1 on the chopping block is DOU.
 
As someone who played ADVPl last year, on the winning team no less I saw with my very own eyes how volatile some of the lower tier formats are, DOU and LC specifically were complete chaos every single week whenever our players had to play those formats. Both these formats saw significant changes since last year so I'm not entirely against them being playable this year. However, I will express that ADV is known for how good the OU tier specifically is. It does not share the same luxury as BW or DPP where the lower tiers are held in relatively high regard and it seems that the conversation around the lower tiers is divisive to say the least. I personally believe that these formats should be given the chance to be played, but i also wouldn't be against seeing some of them being replaced by OU slots either. I trust that my loyal and esteemed ADV brothers and sisters, representatives of our tiers great and enduring legacy to have greater clarity then myself. But I believe what isn't broken shouldn't be fixed and that ADVPL is fine as is.
 
Zacpz said:
Gonna preface this with I like 10 slots, incl 4ou.

UU is like watching paint dry (Free UUBL), but it is popular so this doesnt seem the time for that.

NU has been being played without Glalie in ALTPL, probs worth checking in with their tier leaders on their plans following the tour.

Ubers seems to generally have healthy interest.

I think it may be useful to gauge interest for RU, PU and ZU too, if they're viable tiers its worth knowing asap.

Keep LC

Decide on killing DOU or not depending on the RU/PU/ZU viability?

Free UUBL
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ALTPL is a fun tour but didnt have a lot of sign ups from tier regulars and as such hasnt been as useful as youd want for testing, agree with Triangles notion that ADV NU should be used to test Glalie-less an additional time.
 
Kollin7 said:
Just my opinion (maybe considering managing) --

I think I'd pretty strongly caution against any additional slots. Last year, if anything, I felt like we were already maybe slightly over the edge of too many players.

I'd propose two Bo3 OU slots instead of just one (removing one Bo1 OU slot). Understanding all the negatives of it, personally I actually kind of like Bo1 and wouldn't want it done away with entirely, but half Bo3 and half Bo1 seems fair.

If you're gonna cut any tier in order to add a different tier, I think the clear #1 on the chopping block is DOU.
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First off just echoing this take about adding one more bo3 OU slot in exchange for a Bo1 OU slot that's there currently, bo3 is better and i like it more so ya!

With that out of the way i just wanna vouch for adv ZUs inclusion without naming other tiers I think it should "replace"
Instead I just wanna talk about ZU and it's relatively high activity, especially in the adv LT scene and it's dedicated playerbase, this meta has seen consistent play in tours since it's recent shifts so players are far from going in dark.
I adore this metagame and just wanted to take the chance to shout it out cuz I think it deserves this.
Also 6 teams is neat.
:mightyena:
 
About DOU, I think the only reason to drop an established tier that people have liked in previous years is if the pool won't be competitive. I don't know if DOU will have a competitive pool given it was sketch last year and enthusiasm seems pretty low. I personally like the tier but I'm not going to be unrealistic so if it can't get a pool or if people want it gone then axe it. If it does stay please please please make it bo3 lmao.

About RU, this tier had a pretty strong case for being added last year and has grown since thanks to the RU community. I'm down to add it.

About axing most lower tiers, I don't think this is a good idea primarily because this tour is kinda defined as the only big stage to play these tiers on beyond their annual tierPL. I agree tiers like NU and ubers could certainly be more competitive, but I'm way more open to things like bo3 and glalieless as ideas as opposed to just nuking them. There's a ton of tours that are just ADV OU, including new ones like ADV wcop.

About LC, seems like the pool will be good and most people liked it, I don't see a strong argument to remove it.

About OU/Bo3, I feel like 4 slots fits the format nicely and 5 is too many. If people want 3 for some other tier like ZU then sure, but IMO it makes sense to keep the OU slots as the focus and 4/10 slots does that pretty well. That said I understand the argument for 3 slots. I'm also down for 2 Bo3 slots and Bo3 in other tiers but I get that other people don't like it so I won't fight too hard for it.

Also retains are surely gonna be in lol.
 
Colteor said:
About DOU, I think the only reason to drop an established tier that people have liked in previous years is if the pool won't be competitive. I don't know if DOU will have a competitive pool given it was sketch last year and enthusiasm seems pretty low. I personally like the tier but I'm not going to be unrealistic so if it can't get a pool or if people want it gone then axe it. If it does stay please please please make it bo3 lmao.
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Echoing this, if DOU is in it NEEDS to be bo3. People were loud about it last year and will continue to be loud about it. It's such an easy change the format is fast enough
 
Me personally I don't like having to fight with other tiers for inclusion, I think it should just be power to the people that want to vouch for their tier instead of putting others down for it because of arbitrary perception bias in the case of this post:

SEROO said:
as from what I myself have experienced ( not saying I'm 100% right ) the community and metagame seems to have developed a lot more and are more consistent in the tier
Click to expand...

This being said, I want to vouch for an 8 x 12 format with these tiers:

ADV OU x 4
ADV OU Bo3 x1
ADV Ubers x 1
ADV UU x 1
ADV RU x1
ADV NU (Glalieless) x1
ADV PU x 1
ADV ZU x 1
ADV LC x 1

This helps in two areas. 1. It increases the amount of OU slots and with the exponential playerbase increase ADV OU has had over the past few years is especially helpful here. 2. It gives a lot of ADV lower tiers some representation and doesn't mean we need to have any "RU or ZU" debates. ADV is one of the single most played old gens and I think having a significantly large player pool is warranted, these slots can all be filled without trouble imo.

Now comes the part where, as an ADV RU leader, I vouch for ADV RU. The tier has seen a FAR substantial amount of growth from last year, and is more heavily integrated into RU tours like RUGL, RUWC, RUBD, heck even today the proposed RUPL (RUPL!!!!!) format had ADV RU in it, and there's talk of its inclusion into RU Classic. I can't stress enough how its inclusion into ADVPL would be nothing short of beneficial to the tour, it is an incredibly unique and well-regarded ADV lower tier that has more active development than even some established lower tiers and has a playerbase that will want to play it including myself.

Re: ADV DOU, echoing most players thoughts in the thread about it. That's all I wanna say on the matter.
 
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