how do you spend 20 hours on a sample that fails to beat marowak, swampert, or opposing clefableSMASH MONS v2
I spent the last 20 hours trying to make a sample team so I’m just gonna try to be brief here.
I talked about Clefable before but the combination of t wave plus encore andhealing is terrifying and can beat notable threats like Registeel,Zapdos, Raikou, Leech Stall, all of the sort.
Raikou has hp ice for Salamence, Crunch for Raikou and Gengar as well as Dusclops, calm mind to beat other special attackers.
Scizor has SD and decent enough bulk for maro, gross and Heracross, Steel wing for rock types like aero and Maldo, hp bug for stuff like Celebi. Quick attack to beat salac mons or sub into petaya mons like Starmie.
Took me 20 hours (Most of yesterday and all of today at this point) to make this sample. If it doesn’t get accepted, it’s fine and I’ll try to make another one, (probably in a few weeks since I didn’t get any sleep and was thinking about what was I gonna use here)
-
Snag some vintage SPL team logo merch over at our Teespring store before January 12th!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
The leader of this section is Isaiah.
Metagame 1v1 Old Gens
- Thread starter DEG
- Start date
MY THOUGTS ON EVERY RANKED POKÉMON IN ADV 1v1
I’ll be going over three criteria’s. How good I think the Pokémon is, how versatile it can be, and what I think what tier it should belong (this is all in my opinion)
S TIER
Registeel. After using it in Swiss, I have to say it is pretty good and does restrict teambuilding to an extent more so in other mons. I personally don’t think you can do much with Registeel other than the stall stoss set but the problem is it’s so exploitable to beat that set. As for the ban set, I’ve only seen it used once and it’s a surprise set. I still think Registeel should remain in S tier
Marowak basically has a better version of a choice band and has all of its move slots. You should always be running thick club so there’s not much you can do, if you really wanted to you can run special marowak. I would say it should be in A+ but the reason it should stay in S is cause it can beat substitute mons that aren’t premier wak answers.
I think marowak should stay in S.
this in my opinion is the best Pokémon in ADV 1v1. Pressure stalling is just so dominant. What makes me like/hate Zapdos even more is the versatility it has. You can run so many sets it’s not even funny. I’m surprised no one has explored agility on Zapdos. I’ve used it and without any speed investment, you basically outspeed every Pokémon in the game. Metal sound and petaya can be nasty. Zapdos deserves to stay in S tier.
A+ TIER
Ah yes. The premier “dragon type” since most of the sets doesn’t use its dragon type stab. Salamence is good, reminds me of zygarde cause it’s 4x weak to ice, kadabra can beat this thing. Even though Salamence is a great Pokémon, I feel like it’s fallen off a bit due to almost everything carrying ice coverage for it. I think Salamence should be in A tier.
Metagross does metagross things. I feel like it’s the only good steel type Pokémon that uses its steel type to its full potential with meteor mash and its high attack stat. There’s really not much to say other than I think psychic metagross is unexplored a bit. Metagross should remain in A+ rank.
I regret not using this mon much, probably cause it can easily lose but it’s a good Zapdos beater I guess. Also has taunt. One thing I do have to say is that most mons have ice moves and most of the decent fighting moves are only for fighting type mons. Tyranitar can bulk for hp fighting and I think it’s better than mence. Godzilla remains in A+ rank imo.
Great value Zapdos except it can beat Zapdos. Funny, also can beat me be ig, also Alakazam and Gengar are big ones, what makes Zapdos better is lack of versatility and isn’t vulnerable to bonemerang. I still like Raikou though. It should stay in A+
A TIER
There’s not much to say about this mon. I like how it’s different from its gen 8 counterpart but there are better mons in this tier imo. Yea Blissey can beat Raikou but mons lower than it can beat it. Counter is a thing ig. To me I think Blissey is outclassed by all the other mons in the tier. Kirby should be in B+ tier.
I really like Dusclops. Good bulk, less crit prone, can beat special attackers. But it doesn’t have a great special stat. Mons with ghost coverage can easily set up on it. I like it but like Blissey, feels outclassed but not as much. Clops should be in A-
Jukain is interesting. I reminds me of gen 8 rachi where an unpopular set started to be used more and dominates everything. Also fast af bois. Stoss is funny cause you can beat Registeel but you can’t beat bulky watersplus Dusclops which is hilarious. I do think agility is unexplored. Jukain should be in A+/S
this thing is a monster. Best reversal user, has powerful bug stab, can beat metagross. It eats t tar. Yes you can run flying coverage but then you have salac that can beat aerodactyl. Liechi scan beat all of the Regis. It can possible even beat marowak.
Heracross should be in A+
I can say the same praise about Alakazam as I did heracross. But it does lose to every bug and physical attack. It has the legendary encore and calm mind is pretty cool. It has fast speed. I think petaya is unexplored a bit. It can be a nice pert answer with hp grass. But I think it deserves to be in A rank.
ICE. ICE ICE ICE. Can handle grassies well.It has an enourmous 200 special defense with amnesia i mind you. You can even beat fire types if you’re packing rest, you can also bulk for aero and maro. Regice can do a lot but not much at the same time. Premier ice type. Regice should stay in A rank
(Insert ursa joke) I like ursaring as he is a beast. Return can beat pressure stall, can beat Zapdos, loses to petaya though. Ursaring is great but I think it had fallen off. Should be in A- rank.
What am I looking at. HP grass isn’t even a reliable pert answer since it can bulk. It loses to rs ice which is sad. I think the second belly drum petaya set is unexplored. Even Salac zard is unexplored and was used in Swiss and though that shit was cool af. You shouldn’t underestimate blast burn though. Zard should be in B+.
A- TIER
I like this mon. The downside of it is a Pokémon with a good enough special attack loses. Kabadra can quite literally beat this. I feel like special pert is a bit unexplored. This should stay in A-
gonna be brief here. I have never seen this month in action but it is a good staller and can beat Registeel ig, it can stay in A-
This mon is bad. It’s good and ig it has it nieches. But it’s funny when a Pokémon like Zapdos can bulk an adamant banded rock slide and you lose. Also very frail. Only thing going for it is it’s one of the better flying types and one of the fastest mons. Also a pressure staller. Should be in B+
Its good but it hits weak even with petaya. I’ve used it and I can appreciate its coverage. Camo Starmie seems unexplored. Should stay in A-
I can argue this thing is better than Charizard. It’s the water version. Icy wind is good for speed control, like Charizard, I think Blastoise can be explored more. I still do think it’s better than Charizard but it seems to have fallen off. B+ for it.
The ultimate heracross counter imo. Salac is it’s best set, a special attacker that can beat Alakazam is huge. Should stay in A-.
B+ TIER
Intimidate is huge for it. I still think there should be more sets for this thing. Not really much to say about it. It can stay in B+
It has good sets. I think band should be explored more. Haven’t tested it yet. It can beat water types with so lose beam and to power up its fire tor moves I think it’s goated. B+ for it.
the pinnacle answer of regi slaying. I love this mon. It gets encore too. I think a cool idea is to encore set up mons then you can break with cross chop. Maybe it can be A- but B+ for it isn’t bad either.
It’s like Jukain but better/worse the same time, you’re more bulkier but have a huge weakness to bug types. It can live a banded Zapdos drill peck so Celebi. It should be in A- simply for the leech stall=instant win set.
Gengar is suck a fun Pokémon to use imo. It has tons of versatility. Taunt is interesting for s certain mon I will mention here later. It’s only drawback is that it’s slower than Alakazam and does t hit as hard but still just as good. Should be in A-
To me, it’s just a worse heracross, slower and hits less hard but you can use its fire typing and blaze to its advantage. Blaze overheat is interesting. Oh can see in some cases where a fire type is needed. B+ is fine.
(Gonna stop bolding so I can make this easier for myself)
Thick fat is great for Zard ig. Oh but it gets encore which is nice. I feel like there is more you can do with Walrein. B+ rank is fine
I like this mon very much. Another leech seed user but it’s slower than the other two which is bad. I feel like for the offensive set, you should run ice beam imo. B+ is fine for it.
ÜN ÜN ÜN ÜN. Eienenwkwnwisnzsjsbsjanqjajwiasjisnaj arooooooooooolooooo (if you can take a banded meteor mash then you’re viable. B+ is fine for it.)
B TIER
A worse Alakazam imo. It has serene grace which is nice. I’m not sure if anyone has explored doom desire (if it’s even legal.) B is fine
It has shadow ball so it does t have to use hp ghost. Also nice reversal user with recover I mind you. Still outclassed by other fightings. B is fine.
u enjoy the concept of Kecleon but I don’t think it’s b worthy. Yea it can beat Registeel and stuff but I feel like color change is super exploitable. B- for it is good.
what’s this bullshit? What’s that, a normal type mon is here? Tauros had performed excellent in Swiss. B tier is an understatement. A- is good for it.
a lot more people are running ice moves more than big moves for Celebi’s case. Also taunt kills it, this might be its only viable set,at least it’s fast. B is fine.
it has thick fat which can beat fires and ices alike. That’s a huge thing. Also scope to break through Registeel. Thick fat scope Lens is a cool idea. B+ for it is fine.
B- TIER
I haven’t seen this mon in action. It has thick fat ig, milk drink is nice, could be explore less. B- is fine for it
This is Charizard but worse. Could be interesting but is weak to wak but isn’t 4x to rock. B- is okay for it.
This is an unexplored mon. I think sub reversal is cool and you only have one weakness. Great value genesect basically. Agility could be nice on it too. This should be in B tier.
Why is this on here I forgot what it does. C+ for it but you can argue B-
you dns argue this is better than stoise. I think stoise is better but Venusaur could be a decent leech staller. B- is fine for it.
This beats every Alakazam, every sceptile, every Celebi, every Charizard possible. This even beat tauros with a neutral brick break essentially. This should be higher definitely. B tier for it is good.
you should be using either Zapdos or Raikou. You should run hp ice since Swampert can bulk for that. It can’t really do anything since it’s so frail. But it’s fast af so B- is good for it.
I like this better than Charizard. Fire blast into overheat beats Registeel and has 125 base attack which is massive. Pressure stall with instant recovery is nice too.This should be in B tier honestly.
C+ TIER
why are you using this. Just use Salamence. Ig toxic screech is a nieche. C/C- simply cause a Pokémon that’s basically the same outclasses it.
I like it but I see why it’s on here. Banded return for pressure stallcan be interesting but ehh. At least it beats mence and it has intimidate. C+ is fine.
Liechi flail is a cool idea with flying stab. Choice band could be a cool idea but since it’s alert flying, it will lose to Zapdos I think (if it’s faster, will banded hyper beam kill) anyway, C+ is fine for it.
Ghost is physical on this gen ig. Has preview pressure ig. C+?
I like sleep talk marvel scale a ton. Mirror cost can be tested with I think C+ is fine
very versatile. I feel like there could be a lot of undiscovered sets for this mon. But it’s no porygon z. C+ is fine for it
you should be using mence part 2 but acceptdnoye is more interesting since you can beat mence and have good bulky stats. Twave could also be nasty. C+ is fine for it.
C TIER
Good typing with good stab coverage, just terrible special. C is fine but you could argue C+
why aren’t you using Alakazam or grumpig even. C- or D even.
cool mixed set. Having belly drum is nice so C is okay for it.
What did this thing do again? C- for it in my opinion. (Seems to frail but cool sets.)
C- TIER
it has encore. C- is okay for it.
this should be in C tier and hypno in C-
This can beat a Raikou but it’s super frailplus Crobat it a better option C- for it is okay
outdated set. Band could be an interesting idea. C- is good for it.
Yea no. D tier or unranked.
there are better reversal users but it has encore i guess. C- is okay for it.
It looses to Salamence which is sad. There are better d tier or unranked options for that. D tier for it honestly.
this set is just a meme. C- is okay for it though.
D TIER (lightning round)
what?
queen is better
a worse regirock that can beat sceptile
Could be a good stall mon
people have been spamming it. Could be good.
Should be C tier imo but aero is better. Unfortunate.
trace is an interesting ability but Alakazam outclasses it.
a physical wall. But one special move makes it dead.
unrank this
unrank this
broken. S tier.
foodies creation.
could use its physical ghost stab with its good attack stat.
Tested it. It’s gone flat.
could be fun to use but there are better steel types.
could be interesting
this should get ranked. B or C tier is perfect for it
falls flat but C- seems good for it.
good mon. C+/C is good for it
someone used it in Swiss. Could be good.
bad
hmm
could be a good wall
dark is special this gen.
bad typing
it has intimidate
could be a good reversal user.
This took 3 hours writing this. Hope you enjoy. (This is all in my opinion)
I’ll be going over three criteria’s. How good I think the Pokémon is, how versatile it can be, and what I think what tier it should belong (this is all in my opinion)
S TIER
Registeel. After using it in Swiss, I have to say it is pretty good and does restrict teambuilding to an extent more so in other mons. I personally don’t think you can do much with Registeel other than the stall stoss set but the problem is it’s so exploitable to beat that set. As for the ban set, I’ve only seen it used once and it’s a surprise set. I still think Registeel should remain in S tier
Marowak basically has a better version of a choice band and has all of its move slots. You should always be running thick club so there’s not much you can do, if you really wanted to you can run special marowak. I would say it should be in A+ but the reason it should stay in S is cause it can beat substitute mons that aren’t premier wak answers.
I think marowak should stay in S.
this in my opinion is the best Pokémon in ADV 1v1. Pressure stalling is just so dominant. What makes me like/hate Zapdos even more is the versatility it has. You can run so many sets it’s not even funny. I’m surprised no one has explored agility on Zapdos. I’ve used it and without any speed investment, you basically outspeed every Pokémon in the game. Metal sound and petaya can be nasty. Zapdos deserves to stay in S tier.
A+ TIER
Ah yes. The premier “dragon type” since most of the sets doesn’t use its dragon type stab. Salamence is good, reminds me of zygarde cause it’s 4x weak to ice, kadabra can beat this thing. Even though Salamence is a great Pokémon, I feel like it’s fallen off a bit due to almost everything carrying ice coverage for it. I think Salamence should be in A tier.
Metagross does metagross things. I feel like it’s the only good steel type Pokémon that uses its steel type to its full potential with meteor mash and its high attack stat. There’s really not much to say other than I think psychic metagross is unexplored a bit. Metagross should remain in A+ rank.
I regret not using this mon much, probably cause it can easily lose but it’s a good Zapdos beater I guess. Also has taunt. One thing I do have to say is that most mons have ice moves and most of the decent fighting moves are only for fighting type mons. Tyranitar can bulk for hp fighting and I think it’s better than mence. Godzilla remains in A+ rank imo.
Great value Zapdos except it can beat Zapdos. Funny, also can beat me be ig, also Alakazam and Gengar are big ones, what makes Zapdos better is lack of versatility and isn’t vulnerable to bonemerang. I still like Raikou though. It should stay in A+
A TIER
There’s not much to say about this mon. I like how it’s different from its gen 8 counterpart but there are better mons in this tier imo. Yea Blissey can beat Raikou but mons lower than it can beat it. Counter is a thing ig. To me I think Blissey is outclassed by all the other mons in the tier. Kirby should be in B+ tier.
I really like Dusclops. Good bulk, less crit prone, can beat special attackers. But it doesn’t have a great special stat. Mons with ghost coverage can easily set up on it. I like it but like Blissey, feels outclassed but not as much. Clops should be in A-
Jukain is interesting. I reminds me of gen 8 rachi where an unpopular set started to be used more and dominates everything. Also fast af bois. Stoss is funny cause you can beat Registeel but you can’t beat bulky watersplus Dusclops which is hilarious. I do think agility is unexplored. Jukain should be in A+/S
this thing is a monster. Best reversal user, has powerful bug stab, can beat metagross. It eats t tar. Yes you can run flying coverage but then you have salac that can beat aerodactyl. Liechi scan beat all of the Regis. It can possible even beat marowak.
Heracross should be in A+
I can say the same praise about Alakazam as I did heracross. But it does lose to every bug and physical attack. It has the legendary encore and calm mind is pretty cool. It has fast speed. I think petaya is unexplored a bit. It can be a nice pert answer with hp grass. But I think it deserves to be in A rank.
ICE. ICE ICE ICE. Can handle grassies well.It has an enourmous 200 special defense with amnesia i mind you. You can even beat fire types if you’re packing rest, you can also bulk for aero and maro. Regice can do a lot but not much at the same time. Premier ice type. Regice should stay in A rank
(Insert ursa joke) I like ursaring as he is a beast. Return can beat pressure stall, can beat Zapdos, loses to petaya though. Ursaring is great but I think it had fallen off. Should be in A- rank.
What am I looking at. HP grass isn’t even a reliable pert answer since it can bulk. It loses to rs ice which is sad. I think the second belly drum petaya set is unexplored. Even Salac zard is unexplored and was used in Swiss and though that shit was cool af. You shouldn’t underestimate blast burn though. Zard should be in B+.
A- TIER
I like this mon. The downside of it is a Pokémon with a good enough special attack loses. Kabadra can quite literally beat this. I feel like special pert is a bit unexplored. This should stay in A-
gonna be brief here. I have never seen this month in action but it is a good staller and can beat Registeel ig, it can stay in A-
This mon is bad. It’s good and ig it has it nieches. But it’s funny when a Pokémon like Zapdos can bulk an adamant banded rock slide and you lose. Also very frail. Only thing going for it is it’s one of the better flying types and one of the fastest mons. Also a pressure staller. Should be in B+
Its good but it hits weak even with petaya. I’ve used it and I can appreciate its coverage. Camo Starmie seems unexplored. Should stay in A-
I can argue this thing is better than Charizard. It’s the water version. Icy wind is good for speed control, like Charizard, I think Blastoise can be explored more. I still do think it’s better than Charizard but it seems to have fallen off. B+ for it.
The ultimate heracross counter imo. Salac is it’s best set, a special attacker that can beat Alakazam is huge. Should stay in A-.
B+ TIER
Intimidate is huge for it. I still think there should be more sets for this thing. Not really much to say about it. It can stay in B+
It has good sets. I think band should be explored more. Haven’t tested it yet. It can beat water types with so lose beam and to power up its fire tor moves I think it’s goated. B+ for it.
the pinnacle answer of regi slaying. I love this mon. It gets encore too. I think a cool idea is to encore set up mons then you can break with cross chop. Maybe it can be A- but B+ for it isn’t bad either.
It’s like Jukain but better/worse the same time, you’re more bulkier but have a huge weakness to bug types. It can live a banded Zapdos drill peck so Celebi. It should be in A- simply for the leech stall=instant win set.
Gengar is suck a fun Pokémon to use imo. It has tons of versatility. Taunt is interesting for s certain mon I will mention here later. It’s only drawback is that it’s slower than Alakazam and does t hit as hard but still just as good. Should be in A-
To me, it’s just a worse heracross, slower and hits less hard but you can use its fire typing and blaze to its advantage. Blaze overheat is interesting. Oh can see in some cases where a fire type is needed. B+ is fine.
(Gonna stop bolding so I can make this easier for myself)
Thick fat is great for Zard ig. Oh but it gets encore which is nice. I feel like there is more you can do with Walrein. B+ rank is fine
I like this mon very much. Another leech seed user but it’s slower than the other two which is bad. I feel like for the offensive set, you should run ice beam imo. B+ is fine for it.
ÜN ÜN ÜN ÜN. Eienenwkwnwisnzsjsbsjanqjajwiasjisnaj arooooooooooolooooo (if you can take a banded meteor mash then you’re viable. B+ is fine for it.)
B TIER
A worse Alakazam imo. It has serene grace which is nice. I’m not sure if anyone has explored doom desire (if it’s even legal.) B is fine
It has shadow ball so it does t have to use hp ghost. Also nice reversal user with recover I mind you. Still outclassed by other fightings. B is fine.
u enjoy the concept of Kecleon but I don’t think it’s b worthy. Yea it can beat Registeel and stuff but I feel like color change is super exploitable. B- for it is good.
what’s this bullshit? What’s that, a normal type mon is here? Tauros had performed excellent in Swiss. B tier is an understatement. A- is good for it.
a lot more people are running ice moves more than big moves for Celebi’s case. Also taunt kills it, this might be its only viable set,at least it’s fast. B is fine.
it has thick fat which can beat fires and ices alike. That’s a huge thing. Also scope to break through Registeel. Thick fat scope Lens is a cool idea. B+ for it is fine.
B- TIER
I haven’t seen this mon in action. It has thick fat ig, milk drink is nice, could be explore less. B- is fine for it
This is Charizard but worse. Could be interesting but is weak to wak but isn’t 4x to rock. B- is okay for it.
This is an unexplored mon. I think sub reversal is cool and you only have one weakness. Great value genesect basically. Agility could be nice on it too. This should be in B tier.
Why is this on here I forgot what it does. C+ for it but you can argue B-
you dns argue this is better than stoise. I think stoise is better but Venusaur could be a decent leech staller. B- is fine for it.
This beats every Alakazam, every sceptile, every Celebi, every Charizard possible. This even beat tauros with a neutral brick break essentially. This should be higher definitely. B tier for it is good.
you should be using either Zapdos or Raikou. You should run hp ice since Swampert can bulk for that. It can’t really do anything since it’s so frail. But it’s fast af so B- is good for it.
I like this better than Charizard. Fire blast into overheat beats Registeel and has 125 base attack which is massive. Pressure stall with instant recovery is nice too.This should be in B tier honestly.
C+ TIER
why are you using this. Just use Salamence. Ig toxic screech is a nieche. C/C- simply cause a Pokémon that’s basically the same outclasses it.
I like it but I see why it’s on here. Banded return for pressure stallcan be interesting but ehh. At least it beats mence and it has intimidate. C+ is fine.
Liechi flail is a cool idea with flying stab. Choice band could be a cool idea but since it’s alert flying, it will lose to Zapdos I think (if it’s faster, will banded hyper beam kill) anyway, C+ is fine for it.
Ghost is physical on this gen ig. Has preview pressure ig. C+?
I like sleep talk marvel scale a ton. Mirror cost can be tested with I think C+ is fine
very versatile. I feel like there could be a lot of undiscovered sets for this mon. But it’s no porygon z. C+ is fine for it
you should be using mence part 2 but acceptdnoye is more interesting since you can beat mence and have good bulky stats. Twave could also be nasty. C+ is fine for it.
C TIER
Good typing with good stab coverage, just terrible special. C is fine but you could argue C+
why aren’t you using Alakazam or grumpig even. C- or D even.
cool mixed set. Having belly drum is nice so C is okay for it.
What did this thing do again? C- for it in my opinion. (Seems to frail but cool sets.)
C- TIER
it has encore. C- is okay for it.
this should be in C tier and hypno in C-
This can beat a Raikou but it’s super frail
outdated set. Band could be an interesting idea. C- is good for it.
Yea no. D tier or unranked.
there are better reversal users but it has encore i guess. C- is okay for it.
It looses to Salamence which is sad. There are better d tier or unranked options for that. D tier for it honestly.
this set is just a meme. C- is okay for it though.
D TIER (lightning round)
what?
queen is better
a worse regirock that can beat sceptile
Could be a good stall mon
people have been spamming it. Could be good.
Should be C tier imo but aero is better. Unfortunate.
trace is an interesting ability but Alakazam outclasses it.
a physical wall. But one special move makes it dead.
unrank this
unrank this
broken. S tier.
foodies creation.
could use its physical ghost stab with its good attack stat.
Tested it. It’s gone flat.
could be fun to use but there are better steel types.
could be interesting
this should get ranked. B or C tier is perfect for it
falls flat but C- seems good for it.
good mon. C+/C is good for it
someone used it in Swiss. Could be good.
bad
hmm
could be a good wall
dark is special this gen.
bad typing
it has intimidate
could be a good reversal user.
This took 3 hours writing this. Hope you enjoy. (This is all in my opinion)
Alright now since I am officially out of the tour, I might as well drop my thoughts on the ADV metagame and stuff. Also 100th post woo.
DISCLAIMER: I am an idiot and I am bad at explaining my thoughts, feel free to ask me if you have any questions. Some of these may also be "wrong," so let me know if you disagree, because I am probably wrong. Also this is a very long post sorry.
The lower tiers are a bit messy, and they can be adjusted, but this is probably decently close to what I think it should be.
I may go back and change these, and if my thoughts later don't match these I made a mistake whoops. Also you may notice the lack of Clefable, and that is just because I have no authority to talk about it. It looks good but idk, I'm leaving it out of this post. Now here are my thoughts on the mons in the metagame, I'll put it in order of how they are in the current VR. If you want to talk about any of these things hit me up.
This thing is just good. It is super bulky, super strong, and has a nice movepool, with things like Aerial Ace, Counter, Swords Dance, Belly Drum, Rock Slide, and of course Bonemerang. Hidden Power is super nice on it, Substitute is cool, and Endure is a neat tech for Charizard. There is more this thing can do too, its a great mon overall. Keep this thing at S.
This thing may be lower but it is so bulky and obnoxious to deal with. Counter is super nice on it, Seismic Toss is great for consistant damage, ID and Amnesia make this thing impossible to break, and Rest is great. Offensive sets also have a lot of potential for surprising people. This thing is super hard to prep for. Also, Iron Defense + Counter is an evil set and I hate it.
Strong, fast, bulky, has options, it is great. Pressure is super nice for stalling out the plethora of Choice Band users, and it can go on the offensive with Thunderbolt and Hidden Power, and even Drill Peck. Great mon, has a lot of sets, keep this thing at S.
Has a lot of options, Choice Band is strong, Dragon Dance is super good, Iron Defense is a hype set that can beat a lot of normal Salamence counters, special attacking sets have a lot of potential, and it definitely has more things it can do. Intimidate is a great ability and it has a decent typing. The main reason this thing is A+ for me is just the sheer amount of HP Ice spam, though you can bulk for it.
It is sooooooo strong. I personally still think this is A+, just because of that. Of course you can go with a traditional Choice Band set to just nuke your opponents, but I love running other items like Salac Berry and Leftovers to use it's natural bulkiness and allowing it to beat the things that normally beat it.
Sand Stream and it's typing allow it to handle the top tiers super well. It has Taunt and Dragon Dance to beat bulky walls, a strong attack stat and Choice Band to hit super hard, it even has a decent special attack stat to hit things trying to bulk it's physical attacks. It is so versatile with a gigantic movepool, definitely deserves A+.
It is worse than Zapdos but beats Zapdos wow. Calm Mind is really nice, especially alongside it's speed. I really like running bulkier Raikous, it catches a lot of people off guard living things like Choice Band Aerodactyl Earthquake. Good mon, keep it in A+.
People need to use this thing more. My experience with it has been extremely positive, ~~though I did choke the one game I brought it away~~, and just the fact that it beats basically all special attackers is so nice. This is my preferred spread, people really don't expect bulkier sets and I like running more bulk over more special attack, though more offensive variants are still good. It just hates physical attackers, so while it could theoretically be A+, I would keep it at A.
It is good, but I feel like it should be A-. This could just be me being stupid, but it feels decently underwhelming at times. It has a lot of stuff going for it though so it is still super good. I am just torn on where I would place it.
This thing is great. Between bulky Leech Seed, Petaya, Liechi, Band, and the sheer amount of other sets it can run, it is super hard to cover. It definitely deserves to at least be A+, possibly even S.
I originally thought it wasn't the best but after using it a decent amount it just fits on so many teams. Guts allows it to beat things like Dusclops while Swarm just makes it even more powerful. Liechi is impossible to wall, Choice Band sets are really strong right off the bat while using Guts really well, Salac sets can beat normal counters hard. It also appreciates Clefable being common, though idk, and it's Bug typing is really nice for Sceptile. This is one of my favorite spreads, bulking things like Alakazam and +1 Sceptile and still hitting somewhat hard. I love running HP Bug on this thing just to secure Sceptile, though other moves are super good as well. It is super good, it should stay at at least A.
Super fast, decently specially bulky, has the most busted move in Encore, this thing is great. It hits really hard offensively with STAB Psychic along with coverage like Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, and Hidden Power, and it has Calm Mind to hit even harder and can run Petaya Berry super well. Calm Mind and Recover makes it super specially bulky as well, and Recover having 32 PP allows it to stall out so much. Definitely deserves at least A.
It beats most special attackers and unlike Blissey it can beat a lot of physical attackers too. It is insanely bulky, has some nice offensive options in BoltBeam, HP Grass and Seismic Toss, and great defensive options in Rest, Amnesia, and Counter. I love this thing, it beats so many common mons, it should be A+.
It is super strong. Not much else to say. I think bulkier sets have a lot of potential but Choice Band is hard to pass over. It is still a little exploitable however so it should stay at A.
This thing is a threat. It does so much damage. I personally love the Belly Drum set, since HP Grass doesn't cover all that much, especially since Swampert has been starting to run massive special defense to bait it. Belly Drum also beats a lot of things that normally think they can win like Blissey and Rest Regice, and Belly Drum is super good on preview. This thing is a great A mon.
Exploitable, but has a decent amount of options with Choice Band and bulky setup sets, it can even run CounterCoat and some janky Salac stuff. I like it, it just hates HP Grass. Solid A- mon.
Super bulky, not much to say, its a solid A- mon. Mimic is cool.
It is good, but I feel like it should be B+. A lot of things can bulk it and it can't live a lot of hits. I think Pressure stall has potential, and I really like this janky spread, but it feels too exploitable to be A-.
Fast, strong, has coverage, I really like this thing. Bulkier sets have potential but even just standard Petaya Offensive is good. I like this spread personally. Solid A- mon.
Super strong and super bulky. Somehow beats Zapdos which is super nice. I personally think it should stay in A-, though I can see why people think it should be dropped.
I like this thing, it is a nice antimeta mon. I love Reversal to bait Tyranitar and Blissey. Cool mon, I would keep it at A- though I can see it dropping to B+.
Its solid. Dragon Dance really allows it to do something unique, I like it. I don't know what else to say so I am ending this thought abruptly.
This thing is insanely bulky, it is very versatile, definitely deserves B+, maybe even A-.
A bulky fighting option with Encore, it is solid especially in the current metagame. Solid B+ mon.
Base 100s is really nice and allows it to be very versatile with it's movepool. Choice Band was a fun mix up, Leech Seed is really nice if you don't want to use Sceptile, and offensive sets are nice to utilize it's typing and bulk. Solid B+ mon.
One of the most versatile mons in the metagame. Taunt, Curse, and Counter are really nice defensive options and it's coverage is really good, between Giga Drain, Psychic, the Elemental Punches, and Thunderbolt. Choice Band is also funny. This thing can be teched for most things, but it can feel a little underwhelming. B+ is a fine place for it for now, though it may be A- worthy.
Really versatile, can be teched for a lot. It hits strong on both sides, between Swords Dance and Bulk Up possibly boosting a Sky Uppercut or Reversal, and Blaze Overheat. It has decent coverage as well, I love this thing, its a solid B+ mon.
I absolutely adore this thing. I personally think this thing should be A-. Encore is busted. This is my preferred spread, it outspeeds base 120s after Icy Wind, giving you a much better chance against Sceptile and Alakazam. I love this thing.
My comments are getting a lot shorter. It is a solid B+ mon, unique typing with good bulk.
It is solid, super tanky and has options between Curse and Band. B+.
Bulky and versatile, but has competition ig. I don't know much about this thing sorry. B.
Has competition but is very strong and decently bulky and has some options. B.
I like this thing but it isn't quite B. B- fits it better. It is bulky and super unique but it sometimes feels a little weak and exploitable.
Very strong, has a few options, super fast, I would raise this thing to B+.
Subseed is really strong right now, and being pretty fast and having Encore is super nice. Solid B tier.
I love Hariyama. Sometimes you need an extremely tanky Fighting type, and Hariyama does that super well. It is definitely still worse than Machamp, so I would put it at B.
From this point I'm just going to comment on a few mons I think should be commented on.
This thing is very versatile and can fit really well as a third on teams. I love white herb on this thing.
A really nice way to beat a lot of Waters and Fires as a fighting type. I think this mon is pretty good.
This thing got a decent amount of usage and I think it is pretty good. It may only have 1 set right now but I can see it being able to tech for a lot of things. It is very bulky and decently fast, and it has a good amount of options. I love this thing.
It is a cool mon with some different things it can do. It's typing is really nice so it can be very bulky. It can run something similar to Gyarados with Substitute, Dragon Dance, and Flail, but it can beat Zapdos and Raikou, it can possibly run some special attacking set, it can run a different physical set, I think it has some potential.
I definitely missed some stuff I wanted to talk about, maybe I'll edit this post idk. There are some other mons I would like to acknowledge, as they have a little niche but I don't think they should be ranked, and if they are they should be D.
Thank you for reading this very long post. I enjoy this metagame and I figured I would drop my thoughts and maybe they could push the metagame forward. If you want to talk about these points let me know, I am probably wrong on a few of these things. Have a good day.
DISCLAIMER: I am an idiot and I am bad at explaining my thoughts, feel free to ask me if you have any questions. Some of these may also be "wrong," so let me know if you disagree, because I am probably wrong. Also this is a very long post sorry.
S:
Marowak
Registeel
Zapdos
A+:
Metagross
Raikou
Regice
Salamence
Sceptile
Tyranitar
A:
Alakazam
Blissey
Charizard
Heracross
Ursaring
A-:
Blastoise
Dusclops
Houndoom
Starmie
Swampert
Walrein
Vaporeon
B+:
Aerodactyl
Blaziken
Celebi
Entei
Gengar
Ludicolo
Machamp
Tauros
Regirock
B:
Hariyama
Jirachi
Jumpluff
Medicham
Moltres
B-:
Armaldo
Jolteon
Kecleon
Miltank
Scizor
Venusaur
C+
Arcanine
Dodrio
Dragonite
Flygon
Grumpig
Milotic
Poliwrath
Typhlosion
Below C+:
Articuno
Breloom
Cradily
Exeggutor
Gorebyss
Hypno
Jynx
Kingdra
Linoone
Lunatone
Meganium
Muk
Raichu
Rapidash
Scyther
Sharpedo
Shedinja
Skarmory
Slowbro
Swalot
Swellow
Umbreon
Victreebel
Zangoose
Marowak
Registeel
Zapdos
A+:
Metagross
Raikou
Regice
Salamence
Sceptile
Tyranitar
A:
Alakazam
Blissey
Charizard
Heracross
Ursaring
A-:
Blastoise
Dusclops
Houndoom
Starmie
Swampert
Walrein
Vaporeon
B+:
Aerodactyl
Blaziken
Celebi
Entei
Gengar
Ludicolo
Machamp
Tauros
Regirock
B:
Hariyama
Jirachi
Jumpluff
Medicham
Moltres
B-:
Armaldo
Jolteon
Kecleon
Miltank
Scizor
Venusaur
C+
Arcanine
Dodrio
Dragonite
Flygon
Grumpig
Milotic
Poliwrath
Typhlosion
Below C+:
Articuno
Breloom
Cradily
Exeggutor
Gorebyss
Hypno
Jynx
Kingdra
Linoone
Lunatone
Meganium
Muk
Raichu
Rapidash
Scyther
Sharpedo
Shedinja
Skarmory
Slowbro
Swalot
Swellow
Umbreon
Victreebel
Zangoose
The lower tiers are a bit messy, and they can be adjusted, but this is probably decently close to what I think it should be.
I may go back and change these, and if my thoughts later don't match these I made a mistake whoops. Also you may notice the lack of Clefable, and that is just because I have no authority to talk about it. It looks good but idk, I'm leaving it out of this post. Now here are my thoughts on the mons in the metagame, I'll put it in order of how they are in the current VR. If you want to talk about any of these things hit me up.
This thing is just good. It is super bulky, super strong, and has a nice movepool, with things like Aerial Ace, Counter, Swords Dance, Belly Drum, Rock Slide, and of course Bonemerang. Hidden Power is super nice on it, Substitute is cool, and Endure is a neat tech for Charizard. There is more this thing can do too, its a great mon overall. Keep this thing at S. This thing may be lower but it is so bulky and obnoxious to deal with. Counter is super nice on it, Seismic Toss is great for consistant damage, ID and Amnesia make this thing impossible to break, and Rest is great. Offensive sets also have a lot of potential for surprising people. This thing is super hard to prep for. Also, Iron Defense + Counter is an evil set and I hate it. Strong, fast, bulky, has options, it is great. Pressure is super nice for stalling out the plethora of Choice Band users, and it can go on the offensive with Thunderbolt and Hidden Power, and even Drill Peck. Great mon, has a lot of sets, keep this thing at S. Has a lot of options, Choice Band is strong, Dragon Dance is super good, Iron Defense is a hype set that can beat a lot of normal Salamence counters, special attacking sets have a lot of potential, and it definitely has more things it can do. Intimidate is a great ability and it has a decent typing. The main reason this thing is A+ for me is just the sheer amount of HP Ice spam, though you can bulk for it. It is sooooooo strong. I personally still think this is A+, just because of that. Of course you can go with a traditional Choice Band set to just nuke your opponents, but I love running other items like Salac Berry and Leftovers to use it's natural bulkiness and allowing it to beat the things that normally beat it. Sand Stream and it's typing allow it to handle the top tiers super well. It has Taunt and Dragon Dance to beat bulky walls, a strong attack stat and Choice Band to hit super hard, it even has a decent special attack stat to hit things trying to bulk it's physical attacks. It is so versatile with a gigantic movepool, definitely deserves A+. It is worse than Zapdos but beats Zapdos wow. Calm Mind is really nice, especially alongside it's speed. I really like running bulkier Raikous, it catches a lot of people off guard living things like Choice Band Aerodactyl Earthquake. Good mon, keep it in A+. People need to use this thing more. My experience with it has been extremely positive, ~~though I did choke the one game I brought it away~~, and just the fact that it beats basically all special attackers is so nice. This is my preferred spread, people really don't expect bulkier sets and I like running more bulk over more special attack, though more offensive variants are still good. It just hates physical attackers, so while it could theoretically be A+, I would keep it at A. It is good, but I feel like it should be A-. This could just be me being stupid, but it feels decently underwhelming at times. It has a lot of stuff going for it though so it is still super good. I am just torn on where I would place it. This thing is great. Between bulky Leech Seed, Petaya, Liechi, Band, and the sheer amount of other sets it can run, it is super hard to cover. It definitely deserves to at least be A+, possibly even S. I originally thought it wasn't the best but after using it a decent amount it just fits on so many teams. Guts allows it to beat things like Dusclops while Swarm just makes it even more powerful. Liechi is impossible to wall, Choice Band sets are really strong right off the bat while using Guts really well, Salac sets can beat normal counters hard. It also appreciates Clefable being common, though idk, and it's Bug typing is really nice for Sceptile. This is one of my favorite spreads, bulking things like Alakazam and +1 Sceptile and still hitting somewhat hard. I love running HP Bug on this thing just to secure Sceptile, though other moves are super good as well. It is super good, it should stay at at least A. Super fast, decently specially bulky, has the most busted move in Encore, this thing is great. It hits really hard offensively with STAB Psychic along with coverage like Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, and Hidden Power, and it has Calm Mind to hit even harder and can run Petaya Berry super well. Calm Mind and Recover makes it super specially bulky as well, and Recover having 32 PP allows it to stall out so much. Definitely deserves at least A. It beats most special attackers and unlike Blissey it can beat a lot of physical attackers too. It is insanely bulky, has some nice offensive options in BoltBeam, HP Grass and Seismic Toss, and great defensive options in Rest, Amnesia, and Counter. I love this thing, it beats so many common mons, it should be A+. It is super strong. Not much else to say. I think bulkier sets have a lot of potential but Choice Band is hard to pass over. It is still a little exploitable however so it should stay at A. This thing is a threat. It does so much damage. I personally love the Belly Drum set, since HP Grass doesn't cover all that much, especially since Swampert has been starting to run massive special defense to bait it. Belly Drum also beats a lot of things that normally think they can win like Blissey and Rest Regice, and Belly Drum is super good on preview. This thing is a great A mon. Exploitable, but has a decent amount of options with Choice Band and bulky setup sets, it can even run CounterCoat and some janky Salac stuff. I like it, it just hates HP Grass. Solid A- mon. Super bulky, not much to say, its a solid A- mon. Mimic is cool. It is good, but I feel like it should be B+. A lot of things can bulk it and it can't live a lot of hits. I think Pressure stall has potential, and I really like this janky spread, but it feels too exploitable to be A-. Fast, strong, has coverage, I really like this thing. Bulkier sets have potential but even just standard Petaya Offensive is good. I like this spread personally. Solid A- mon. Super strong and super bulky. Somehow beats Zapdos which is super nice. I personally think it should stay in A-, though I can see why people think it should be dropped. I like this thing, it is a nice antimeta mon. I love Reversal to bait Tyranitar and Blissey. Cool mon, I would keep it at A- though I can see it dropping to B+. Its solid. Dragon Dance really allows it to do something unique, I like it. I don't know what else to say so I am ending this thought abruptly. This thing is insanely bulky, it is very versatile, definitely deserves B+, maybe even A-. A bulky fighting option with Encore, it is solid especially in the current metagame. Solid B+ mon. Base 100s is really nice and allows it to be very versatile with it's movepool. Choice Band was a fun mix up, Leech Seed is really nice if you don't want to use Sceptile, and offensive sets are nice to utilize it's typing and bulk. Solid B+ mon. One of the most versatile mons in the metagame. Taunt, Curse, and Counter are really nice defensive options and it's coverage is really good, between Giga Drain, Psychic, the Elemental Punches, and Thunderbolt. Choice Band is also funny. This thing can be teched for most things, but it can feel a little underwhelming. B+ is a fine place for it for now, though it may be A- worthy. Really versatile, can be teched for a lot. It hits strong on both sides, between Swords Dance and Bulk Up possibly boosting a Sky Uppercut or Reversal, and Blaze Overheat. It has decent coverage as well, I love this thing, its a solid B+ mon. I absolutely adore this thing. I personally think this thing should be A-. Encore is busted. This is my preferred spread, it outspeeds base 120s after Icy Wind, giving you a much better chance against Sceptile and Alakazam. I love this thing. My comments are getting a lot shorter. It is a solid B+ mon, unique typing with good bulk. It is solid, super tanky and has options between Curse and Band. B+. Bulky and versatile, but has competition ig. I don't know much about this thing sorry. B. Has competition but is very strong and decently bulky and has some options. B. I like this thing but it isn't quite B. B- fits it better. It is bulky and super unique but it sometimes feels a little weak and exploitable. Very strong, has a few options, super fast, I would raise this thing to B+. Subseed is really strong right now, and being pretty fast and having Encore is super nice. Solid B tier. I love Hariyama. Sometimes you need an extremely tanky Fighting type, and Hariyama does that super well. It is definitely still worse than Machamp, so I would put it at B.From this point I'm just going to comment on a few mons I think should be commented on.
This thing is very versatile and can fit really well as a third on teams. I love white herb on this thing. A really nice way to beat a lot of Waters and Fires as a fighting type. I think this mon is pretty good. This thing got a decent amount of usage and I think it is pretty good. It may only have 1 set right now but I can see it being able to tech for a lot of things. It is very bulky and decently fast, and it has a good amount of options. I love this thing. It is a cool mon with some different things it can do. It's typing is really nice so it can be very bulky. It can run something similar to Gyarados with Substitute, Dragon Dance, and Flail, but it can beat Zapdos and Raikou, it can possibly run some special attacking set, it can run a different physical set, I think it has some potential.I definitely missed some stuff I wanted to talk about, maybe I'll edit this post idk. There are some other mons I would like to acknowledge, as they have a little niche but I don't think they should be ranked, and if they are they should be D.
Absol
Banette
Clamperl
Claydol
Crobat
Dunsparce
Electrode
Feraligatr
Forretress
Gardevoir
Gligar
Granbull
Hitmonlee
Hitmontop
Kangaskhan
Lanturn
Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Ninjask
Primeape
Raticate
Rhydon
Slowking
Stantler
Steelix
Vigoroth
Weezing
Banette
Clamperl
Claydol
Crobat
Dunsparce
Electrode
Feraligatr
Forretress
Gardevoir
Gligar
Granbull
Hitmonlee
Hitmontop
Kangaskhan
Lanturn
Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Ninjask
Primeape
Raticate
Rhydon
Slowking
Stantler
Steelix
Vigoroth
Weezing
Thank you for reading this very long post. I enjoy this metagame and I figured I would drop my thoughts and maybe they could push the metagame forward. If you want to talk about these points let me know, I am probably wrong on a few of these things. Have a good day.
Last edited:
I want to hear your thoughts on a few PokémonAlright now since I am officially out of the tour, I might as well drop my thoughts on the ADV metagame and stuff. Also 100th post woo.
DISCLAIMER: I am an idiot and I am bad at explaining my thoughts, feel free to ask me if you have any questions. Some of these may also be "wrong," so let me know if you disagree, because I am probably wrong. Also this is a very long post sorry.
S:
Marowak
Registeel
Zapdos
A+:
Metagross
Raikou
Regice
Salamence
Sceptile
Tyranitar
A:
Alakazam
Blissey
Charizard
Heracross
Ursaring
A-:
Blastoise
Dusclops
Houndoom
Starmie
Swampert
Walrein
Vaporeon
B+:
Aerodactyl
Blaziken
Celebi
Entei
Gengar
Ludicolo
Machamp
Tauros
Regirock
B:
Hariyama
Jirachi
Jumpluff
Medicham
Moltres
B-:
Armaldo
Jolteon
Kecleon
Miltank
Scizor
Venusaur
C+
Arcanine
Dodrio
Dragonite
Flygon
Grumpig
Milotic
Poliwrath
Typhlosion
Below C+:
Articuno
Breloom
Cradily
Exeggutor
Gorebyss
Hypno
Jynx
Kingdra
Linoone
Lunatone
Meganium
Muk
Raichu
Rapidash
Scyther
Sharpedo
Shedinja
Skarmory
Slowbro
Swalot
Swellow
Umbreon
Victreebel
Zangoose
The lower tiers are a bit messy, and they can be adjusted, but this is probably decently close to what I think it should be.
I may go back and change these, and if my thoughts later don't match these I made a mistake whoops. Also you may notice the lack of Clefable, and that is just because I have no authority to talk about it. It looks good but idk, I'm leaving it out of this post. Now here are my thoughts on the mons in the metagame, I'll put it in order of how they are in the current VR. If you want to talk about any of these things hit me up.
From this point I'm just going to comment on a few mons I think should be commented on.
I definitely missed some stuff I wanted to talk about, maybe I'll edit this post idk. There are some other mons I would like to acknowledge, as they have a little niche but I don't think they should be ranked, and if they are they should be D.
Absol
Banette
Clamperl
Claydol
Crobat
Dunsparce
Electrode
Feraligatr
Forretress
Gardevoir
Gligar
Granbull
Hitmonlee
Hitmontop
Kangaskhan
Lanturn
Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Ninjask
Primeape
Raticate
Rhydon
Slowking
Stantler
Steelix
Vigoroth
Weezing
Thank you for reading this very long post. I enjoy this metagame and I figured I would drop my thoughts and maybe they could push the metagame forward. If you want to talk about these points let me know, I am probably wrong on a few of these things. Have a good day.
Zangoose
Scyther
Crobat
Moltres
Armaldo
Meganium
Articuno
Cradily
Exeggutor
Umbreon
Muk
Gorebyss
Rapidash
Swalot
Most of these Pokémon are below C+ tier and you must find a niche with them if you put them in this spot. I wanna know your thoughts on all of them even the ones that are over/below the C+ tier
hello im here to quickly talk about Clefable in ADV 1v1
this mon came out of nowhere during the ongoing ADV 1v1 Duo Suiss, with this set made by Potatochan that beats a ton of top tier pokemon in the metagame, including but not limited to registeel, zapdos, blissey, sceptile, charizard, raikou, etc, by using broken encore with immediate recovery in soft boiled and stossing em down. thunder wave and ganlon berry are pretty much filler but do some nice things like thunder wave beating zapdos easier and ganlon berry beating miscellaneous physical attackers by getting the +1 def. other options clef has are charm or cosmic power over thunder wave, which both allow it to beat some would be counters like marowak and swampert, some ttar and meta, etc, and lum berry over ganlon for alakazam which would win bc of synchronize, or just simply lefties to have an easier time living attacks.
heres a bunch of replays of it winning from the duo swiss to see it in action
this is basically an on the radar post for this mon as the ADV 1v1 council is looking to take action on it asap (ex: quickban, suspect after duo swiss is over), but we wanted to get community input on this mon instead of nuking it out of nowhere, because there is def ways to tech it, and mons that 100% beat it to where the meta could in theory adapt to it.
tagging my fellow council members to add thoughts if they would like pqs LRXC Urfgurgle, thanks for reading and post/discuss away
this mon came out of nowhere during the ongoing ADV 1v1 Duo Suiss, with this set made by Potatochan that beats a ton of top tier pokemon in the metagame, including but not limited to registeel, zapdos, blissey, sceptile, charizard, raikou, etc, by using broken encore with immediate recovery in soft boiled and stossing em down. thunder wave and ganlon berry are pretty much filler but do some nice things like thunder wave beating zapdos easier and ganlon berry beating miscellaneous physical attackers by getting the +1 def. other options clef has are charm or cosmic power over thunder wave, which both allow it to beat some would be counters like marowak and swampert, some ttar and meta, etc, and lum berry over ganlon for alakazam which would win bc of synchronize, or just simply lefties to have an easier time living attacks.
heres a bunch of replays of it winning from the duo swiss to see it in action
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1372961707-wnkjl0v92sj90voe25f0h2fxw0mzja1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1372963171-pxn2xu85pc4l8ovg8x7z69dndsn5vf1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1372964341-06g1brei3vxmf52o3a46d3rx4wh01wupw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1374987608-9ri6h9n1i3euo2rwrqygg6ufcp6jdh5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1374989409-sdklclu9lbny040z4ylt25k9rby37vrpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1374990743-y7lqw8oiye66og27tgls3dctxm5qnhppw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1375484971-fuia3mzlkrh32f33u71a4w8zpp51z8bpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1377458440
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1377464340-nica3l2gbd4u0otbuxu5lwjdapb6qkvpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1377465863-dp9qh4i8iv6p1qai8dqqzy99q6x2y46pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1378732020-6kc3q0mzt3huejizgy4by8kge0toe5gpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1372963171-pxn2xu85pc4l8ovg8x7z69dndsn5vf1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1372964341-06g1brei3vxmf52o3a46d3rx4wh01wupw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1374987608-9ri6h9n1i3euo2rwrqygg6ufcp6jdh5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1374989409-sdklclu9lbny040z4ylt25k9rby37vrpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1374990743-y7lqw8oiye66og27tgls3dctxm5qnhppw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1375484971-fuia3mzlkrh32f33u71a4w8zpp51z8bpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1377458440
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1377464340-nica3l2gbd4u0otbuxu5lwjdapb6qkvpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1377465863-dp9qh4i8iv6p1qai8dqqzy99q6x2y46pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1378732020-6kc3q0mzt3huejizgy4by8kge0toe5gpw
tagging my fellow council members to add thoughts if they would like pqs LRXC Urfgurgle, thanks for reading and post/discuss away
Last edited:
hello im here to quickly talk about Clefable in ADV 1v1
this mon came out of nowhere this during the ongoing ADV 1v1 Duo Suiss, with this set made by Potatochan that beats a ton of top tier pokemon in the metagame, including but not limited to registeel, zapdos, blissey, sceptile, charizard, raikou, etc, by using broken encore with immediate recovery in soft boiled and stossing em down. thunder wave and ganlon berry are pretty much filler but do some nice things like thunder wave beating zapdos easier and ganlon berry beating miscellaneous physical attackers by getting the +1 def. other options clef has are charm or cosmic power over thunder wave, which both allow it to beat some would be counters like marowak and swampert, some ttar and meta, etc, and lum berry over ganlon for alakazam which would win bc of synchronize, or just simply lefties to have an easier time living attacks.
heres a bunch of replays of it winning from the duo swiss to see it in action
this is basically an on the radar post for this mon as the ADV 1v1 council is looking to take action on it asap (ex: quickban, suspect after duo swiss is over), but we wanted to get community input on this mon instead of nuking it out of nowhere, because there is def ways to tech it, and mons that 100% beat it to where the meta could in theory adapt to it.https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1372961707-wnkjl0v92sj90voe25f0h2fxw0mzja1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1372963171-pxn2xu85pc4l8ovg8x7z69dndsn5vf1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1372964341-06g1brei3vxmf52o3a46d3rx4wh01wupw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1374987608-9ri6h9n1i3euo2rwrqygg6ufcp6jdh5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1374989409-sdklclu9lbny040z4ylt25k9rby37vrpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1374990743-y7lqw8oiye66og27tgls3dctxm5qnhppw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1375484971-fuia3mzlkrh32f33u71a4w8zpp51z8bpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1377458440
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1377464340-nica3l2gbd4u0otbuxu5lwjdapb6qkvpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1377465863-dp9qh4i8iv6p1qai8dqqzy99q6x2y46pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1378732020-6kc3q0mzt3huejizgy4by8kge0toe5gpw
tagging my fellow council members to add thoughts if they would like pqs LRXC Urfgurgle, thanks for reading and post/discuss away
Aw man Clefable 
Clefable's most popular techs are simply just fightings, gengar, and mons with taunt. However, clefable can in fact be beaten by other, more common pokemon, with just a bit of crerativity:
Believe it or not, zapdos is actually a fairly solid clefable check:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1379505171-27nfijvf2nyqzrife3pf2tf1u0atyeppw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1380968357-uxay5vr3thsuq0p35q44lvhxzeaxuiapw
Always click thunderbolt turn 1, if you thunder wave off the bat you can get encored and lose. After getting thunderbolted they will likely thunderwave you, then repeatedly soft-boiled to heal off thunderbolt damage. Once you're paralyzed and your encore ends, you can thunder-wave without fear of getting encored, since you move after the clefable. From here, you and clefable are both paralyzed, you're faster, and you do more damage with thunderbolt than they do with seismic toss. As long as you don't get unlucky, you should win.
Alternatively, thunderbolt can crit/paralyze early, getting you a free win.(like replay number 2)
Set if you're interested:
https://pokepast.es/6b82d010861d91ee (just the bulky setcomp but slightly more specially bulky, I wanted this to check other zapdoses(zapdii?) for my team.)
Honorable mention:
Clefable can be fairly easily lured with a lum berry pokemon able to 2HKO it, stuff I've used being things like lum blaziken or lum alakazam to lure lum clefable(god what is this tier). Of course, lum blaziken can still just lose to cute charm, so what's the point.
Believe it or not, zapdos is actually a fairly solid clefable check:https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1379505171-27nfijvf2nyqzrife3pf2tf1u0atyeppw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1380968357-uxay5vr3thsuq0p35q44lvhxzeaxuiapw
Always click thunderbolt turn 1, if you thunder wave off the bat you can get encored and lose. After getting thunderbolted they will likely thunderwave you, then repeatedly soft-boiled to heal off thunderbolt damage. Once you're paralyzed and your encore ends, you can thunder-wave without fear of getting encored, since you move after the clefable. From here, you and clefable are both paralyzed, you're faster, and you do more damage with thunderbolt than they do with seismic toss. As long as you don't get unlucky, you should win.
Alternatively, thunderbolt can crit/paralyze early, getting you a free win.(like replay number 2)
Set if you're interested:
https://pokepast.es/6b82d010861d91ee (just the bulky setcomp but slightly more specially bulky, I wanted this to check other zapdoses(zapdii?) for my team.)
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. 240 HP / 196 Def Zapdos: 323-380 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 240 HP / 24 SpD Zapdos: 161-190 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 240 HP / 24 SpD Zapdos: 161-190 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Honorable mention:
Clefable can be fairly easily lured with a lum berry pokemon able to 2HKO it, stuff I've used being things like lum blaziken or lum alakazam to lure lum clefable(god what is this tier). Of course, lum blaziken can still just lose to cute charm, so what's the point.
In addition to the standard lum/ganlon/leftovers on twave/encore and charm clefable, it is able to run lure sets to beat it's small list of counters.
Machamp/Gengar lure:
https://pokepast.es/1777af269715828c
Psychic clefable easily beats gengar, even ones with taunt, 2HKO'ing it while not getting 2HKO'd by gengar. These EV's are specifically meant to lure setcomp bulk up machamp, realistically this should have more defense/speed(the rest of the EVs were dumped into spa so there's a lot of leeway with EVs). Clefable lives a cross chop, outspeeds the machamp, and 2HKOs with psychic. Sub is a failsafe vs machamp/hariyama, to ensure the win. I'm not entirely sure about the hariyama matchup, as this was just built as a gengar/machamp lure, but with a slightly different spread this probably beats non-band hariyama. Clefable still does just always lose to band machamp/hariyama or any other band fighting.
Band clefable:
https://pokepast.es/ad04dcf42dbdf45f
This was a theoretically possible clefable set I came up with building, basically band focus punch would let you beat clefable+gengar+taunt ttar, unfortunately clefable does live a band clefable focus punch(252+ Atk Choice Band Clefable Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Clefable: 333-392 (84.5 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), but this still beats gengar/alakazam/tyranitar(if they taunt t1) so you can use it if you want. Shadow ball to hit gengar and other ghosts, and return/hp fighting for solid overall damage.
Machamp/Gengar lure:
https://pokepast.es/1777af269715828c
Psychic clefable easily beats gengar, even ones with taunt, 2HKO'ing it while not getting 2HKO'd by gengar. These EV's are specifically meant to lure setcomp bulk up machamp, realistically this should have more defense/speed(the rest of the EVs were dumped into spa so there's a lot of leeway with EVs). Clefable lives a cross chop, outspeeds the machamp, and 2HKOs with psychic. Sub is a failsafe vs machamp/hariyama, to ensure the win. I'm not entirely sure about the hariyama matchup, as this was just built as a gengar/machamp lure, but with a slightly different spread this probably beats non-band hariyama. Clefable still does just always lose to band machamp/hariyama or any other band fighting.
Band clefable:
https://pokepast.es/ad04dcf42dbdf45f
This was a theoretically possible clefable set I came up with building, basically band focus punch would let you beat clefable+gengar+taunt ttar, unfortunately clefable does live a band clefable focus punch(252+ Atk Choice Band Clefable Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Clefable: 333-392 (84.5 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), but this still beats gengar/alakazam/tyranitar(if they taunt t1) so you can use it if you want. Shadow ball to hit gengar and other ghosts, and return/hp fighting for solid overall damage.
Clefable vs clefable gameplay usually comes down to either luck or a reverse-speed creeping competition. There's basically two scenarios in a clefable vs clefable gameplay situation, a speed-tie, or one clefable purposely underspeeding the other. These matchups have very interesting and complex gameplay, some that I'd like to examine here.
Speed-tie:
This matchup is largely based on luck, pretty much goes 50/50, what with thunder wave, speed ties, and cute-charm activations. Speed-tied clefable is the most monotnous tour gameplay ever seen on earth, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. A daring clefable can click encore turn 1 but if it doesn't go second and gets thunderwaved, it's pretty much just dead.
Differing speeds:
A tech I brought to adv swiss playoffs R1 was slow clefable, dreamt up by dedddgamerman, someone who helped me build a lot for adv swiss playoffs. Basically by being slower, you can guarantee your encore hits second, and they get encored into whatever they pick. Here's how you win, depending on all the moves the opposing clefable could click t1:
Seismic toss:
They get encored into stoss, turn 2 you can thunder wave. Now that you're faster, you can encore lock them into stoss while soft-boiling and stossing accordingly.
Soft-boiled:
Why. I guess you can fish for cute-charm but no. If they click soft-boiled the same thing happens as if they seismic toss.
Thunder-wave:
Slightly luck based. You need a long enough encore that you can kill them with seismic tosses before it ends. Thunder-wave is the correct move for them to pick, as it leaves you with a roughly 30% chance to win, factoring in thunder wave, cute charm, and encore length odds.
Encore:
Since you can't encore encore, you're at a sort of impasse. Turn 2 is like starting a whole new battle, just both clefables with one less encore. If they spam encore, they can lower encore's pp to 0, then beat you. This is why you have to thunder-wave on their second encore, unless you think they'll click thunder wave as well. You basically have to outplay them, but the ball's still in your court.
Overall, slow clefable is a great tech for other clefables, and wins most matchups vs other, faster, clefables.
Speed-tie:
This matchup is largely based on luck, pretty much goes 50/50, what with thunder wave, speed ties, and cute-charm activations. Speed-tied clefable is the most monotnous tour gameplay ever seen on earth, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. A daring clefable can click encore turn 1 but if it doesn't go second and gets thunderwaved, it's pretty much just dead.
Differing speeds:
A tech I brought to adv swiss playoffs R1 was slow clefable, dreamt up by dedddgamerman, someone who helped me build a lot for adv swiss playoffs. Basically by being slower, you can guarantee your encore hits second, and they get encored into whatever they pick. Here's how you win, depending on all the moves the opposing clefable could click t1:
Seismic toss:
They get encored into stoss, turn 2 you can thunder wave. Now that you're faster, you can encore lock them into stoss while soft-boiling and stossing accordingly.
Soft-boiled:
Why. I guess you can fish for cute-charm but no. If they click soft-boiled the same thing happens as if they seismic toss.
Thunder-wave:
Slightly luck based. You need a long enough encore that you can kill them with seismic tosses before it ends. Thunder-wave is the correct move for them to pick, as it leaves you with a roughly 30% chance to win, factoring in thunder wave, cute charm, and encore length odds.
Encore:
Since you can't encore encore, you're at a sort of impasse. Turn 2 is like starting a whole new battle, just both clefables with one less encore. If they spam encore, they can lower encore's pp to 0, then beat you. This is why you have to thunder-wave on their second encore, unless you think they'll click thunder wave as well. You basically have to outplay them, but the ball's still in your court.
Overall, slow clefable is a great tech for other clefables, and wins most matchups vs other, faster, clefables.
Smogon tiering policy:
Smogon tiering policy generally aims to:
I.) Create a metagame that is conducive to the more "skilled" player winning over the less "skilled" player a majority of the time.
Clefable goes against this rule, being extremely threatening at preview, and often forcing 50/50s at preview, and in battle. It does this vs pokemon like starmie, who can 2HKO clefable, but fear its thunder-wave. However, if starmie clicks substitute to avoid thunder-wave, it can get encored by clefable and lose. Clefable vs Starmie then becomes a 50/50, tipped into clefable's favor because of hydro pump's miss chance. While a skiller player will generally be better at predicting, predicting in a 50/50 is extremely difficult, and these battles could likely go either way. Additionally, clefable's cute charm ability and frequent use of paralysis introduce luck into a majority of battles, which I will go further into deeper down.
II.) Ensure that both our ladder and tournament crowds are catered to regarding I.)
ADV ladder doesn't exist(yet haha funny gimme ladder tho), tournament crowds have voiced a(somewhat) dislike of clefable in the tier, listen to the tournament crowd. Simple enough.
III.) Ensure that actions are taken with appropriate and complete justification.
Probably the most subjective of these three, but a clefable suspect(or discussion of a suspect) would be completely justified in the event that the first two points are fulfilled(they are), and that enough adv 1v1 players feel strongly about clefable.
1v1 tiering guidelines(not my idea):
Also while visiting the on the radar thread, I saw deg's personal 1v1 guidelines. I'll go over those with clefable too, just for the 1v1 perspective.
a) Restricting Preivew
Clefable's stronghold on the adv 1v1 preview is due to its high ability to tech for opposing pokemon, leaving its list of hard checks being very small. Because of this, nearly every preview has a fighting type, gengar, or pokemon with taunt, absolutely affecting the preview in tournament matches.
b) Restricting teambuilding
To say clefable restricts teambuilding would be an understatement. The near-omnipresence of clefable at preview demands a clefable check in the teambuilder, two if you don't want all your teams to be 2-0'd by clefable. Clefable's such small list of counters mean that teambuilding often becomes repetitive, and a fighting/gengar/taunt user being both at every preview, and completely necessary in every team.
c) Luck
Aside from restricting preview and teambuilding, clefable introduces luck into matchups luck shouldn't be in. Its ability cute charm is inherently luck based, as well as thunder wave's paralysis chance. Matches you should be winning vs clefable can easily be a loss for you, just because of luck(I sound like a broken record jeez). Pokemon like blaziken that should be beating clefable can still lose, simply because of cute charm.
Conclusion:
Clefable's extreme strain on teambuilding and playing adv 1v1 makes tournament play less competitive and the tier overall less fun to play. This is to enough of a degree, I believe, that would warrant a suspect test, or the discussion of one.
Smogon tiering policy generally aims to:
I.) Create a metagame that is conducive to the more "skilled" player winning over the less "skilled" player a majority of the time.
Clefable goes against this rule, being extremely threatening at preview, and often forcing 50/50s at preview, and in battle. It does this vs pokemon like starmie, who can 2HKO clefable, but fear its thunder-wave. However, if starmie clicks substitute to avoid thunder-wave, it can get encored by clefable and lose. Clefable vs Starmie then becomes a 50/50, tipped into clefable's favor because of hydro pump's miss chance. While a skiller player will generally be better at predicting, predicting in a 50/50 is extremely difficult, and these battles could likely go either way. Additionally, clefable's cute charm ability and frequent use of paralysis introduce luck into a majority of battles, which I will go further into deeper down.
II.) Ensure that both our ladder and tournament crowds are catered to regarding I.)
ADV ladder doesn't exist(yet haha funny gimme ladder tho), tournament crowds have voiced a(somewhat) dislike of clefable in the tier, listen to the tournament crowd. Simple enough.
III.) Ensure that actions are taken with appropriate and complete justification.
Probably the most subjective of these three, but a clefable suspect(or discussion of a suspect) would be completely justified in the event that the first two points are fulfilled(they are), and that enough adv 1v1 players feel strongly about clefable.
1v1 tiering guidelines(not my idea):
Also while visiting the on the radar thread, I saw deg's personal 1v1 guidelines. I'll go over those with clefable too, just for the 1v1 perspective.
a) Restricting Preivew
Clefable's stronghold on the adv 1v1 preview is due to its high ability to tech for opposing pokemon, leaving its list of hard checks being very small. Because of this, nearly every preview has a fighting type, gengar, or pokemon with taunt, absolutely affecting the preview in tournament matches.
b) Restricting teambuilding
To say clefable restricts teambuilding would be an understatement. The near-omnipresence of clefable at preview demands a clefable check in the teambuilder, two if you don't want all your teams to be 2-0'd by clefable. Clefable's such small list of counters mean that teambuilding often becomes repetitive, and a fighting/gengar/taunt user being both at every preview, and completely necessary in every team.
c) Luck
Aside from restricting preview and teambuilding, clefable introduces luck into matchups luck shouldn't be in. Its ability cute charm is inherently luck based, as well as thunder wave's paralysis chance. Matches you should be winning vs clefable can easily be a loss for you, just because of luck(I sound like a broken record jeez). Pokemon like blaziken that should be beating clefable can still lose, simply because of cute charm.
Conclusion:
Clefable's extreme strain on teambuilding and playing adv 1v1 makes tournament play less competitive and the tier overall less fun to play. This is to enough of a degree, I believe, that would warrant a suspect test, or the discussion of one.
This is just a bit of a parting word, disregard if you don't care about the formatting of smogon posts. To sum up my thoughts on clefable, it is an extremely demanding pokemon to both build against, and play against in adv. Even in a battle with the best adv players, where one pokemon should clearly win, the battle ends up being luck-reliant due to cute-charm+thunder wave's natural luck-based elements. Clefable is a downright PROBLEM, no other way to say it.
All that being said, like and subscribe to LRXC and play adv.
Last edited:
I personally want to see Clefable gone from ADV, just as I believe my fellow council members and most serious ADV players do. It is an absolute menace, reliably beating a tremendous number of mons with a single set (twave encore). It has other viable options as well, including cosmic power, calm mind, charm, and counter; this thing has a massive movepool and will only get worse as it is explored further. Certainly, the meta will adapt as best as it can, but Clef has few reliable checks. Gengar, Houndoom, Machamp, and a few others can take on every relevant set reliably. Things like toxic Blissey and Vaporeon or Lum Berry on various mons are also options. However, being forced to always bring one of Clef's few traditional checks or run a suboptimal set in order to cover a single mon is simply unacceptable. This thing is warping the entire metagame around it and it needs to go.
Last edited:
i spend 1 day innovating this meta and look what happens…
I was planning to make this post more in-depth, but when talking to some gen 5 players, it's pretty clear many of them agree with what I'm about to say. So, I'll just lay it out, I think Jirachi should be banned from Gen 5 1v1. The recent ban of Victini has led to a metagame where Jirachi is not only broken, but also uncompetitive.
So, Jirachi has amazing matchups vs the top tier pokes in the tier. This is not inherently a big issue of course, but Jirachi beats a large portion of the metagame with Choice Scarf and no hax. Then you get into how Jirachi can hax much of its counterplay. Stuff like Volcarona, Chandelure & Zapdos that don't fear its stabs a lot will straight up lose to only one or two Zen Headbutt flinches if they're not running Custap Berry. Jirachi has great chances vs most of the tier, and can hax most pokes that either aren't tanky Fire types or Custap berry holders.
To make matters worse, Jirachi has a lot of options for its sets. Choice Specs comes to mind, but if Jirachi wants to, it can also run CB and gem sets (some of which include Thunder Wave & Iron Head, which are such a pain). This versatility is best demonstrated in the Sableye matchup. When Jirachi fights a Sableye, Scarf's best option is easily to Trick, as you can't flinch a Prankster poke to the point where you win the game. Choice Specs easily prays on this, and can hit Sableye with a Specs flash cannon. Now, the Jirachi is not burned, and has a Choice Specs Serene Grace Flash Cannon to fire off for free. Here is a test replay of this situation: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen51v1-1383559291-gr8lggmda9hvw1jrfc7cilzimaj6dl6pw
Choice Specs beats a ton of pokes scarf struggles with, like Metagross, Suicune, and Non CB Garchomp if you have the right coverage.
Teams are either tasked with running something silly like Inner Focus Umbreon, Custap berry Fire types (or Heatran & Arcanine, who don't get flinched nor beat by Choice Specs coverage), or using a check like Zapdos or Rotom-Heat that just has to hope for no flinches. Some teams just lose to it.
Without Victini, Jirachi is just the best poke in the tier, in my opinion. It beats almost everything, and can hax the rest. I hope it gets suspected as soon as possible, as it is truly horrible to have in the Metagame. To me, it feels even worse than SwSh Genesect, as it requires even more specific Fire type sets if you don't want to get flinched to death.
I think this may be the last Gen 5 ban, as I really don't think Mew, Sableye, or anything else are capable of being particularly broken. I also think Blaziken should be unbanned, I struggle to see it being an issue in a tier with Latios and Keldeo being as good as they are and stiff Fighting type competition.
Gen 5 is cool, I enjoyed it a lot, but Jirachi just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I hope it gets banned as soon as possible, and even before World Cup ends. I understand if it's pushed back to after the tournment ends, but I can't stand having a broken poke that can also hax so much to death.
So, Jirachi has amazing matchups vs the top tier pokes in the tier. This is not inherently a big issue of course, but Jirachi beats a large portion of the metagame with Choice Scarf and no hax. Then you get into how Jirachi can hax much of its counterplay. Stuff like Volcarona, Chandelure & Zapdos that don't fear its stabs a lot will straight up lose to only one or two Zen Headbutt flinches if they're not running Custap Berry. Jirachi has great chances vs most of the tier, and can hax most pokes that either aren't tanky Fire types or Custap berry holders.
To make matters worse, Jirachi has a lot of options for its sets. Choice Specs comes to mind, but if Jirachi wants to, it can also run CB and gem sets (some of which include Thunder Wave & Iron Head, which are such a pain). This versatility is best demonstrated in the Sableye matchup. When Jirachi fights a Sableye, Scarf's best option is easily to Trick, as you can't flinch a Prankster poke to the point where you win the game. Choice Specs easily prays on this, and can hit Sableye with a Specs flash cannon. Now, the Jirachi is not burned, and has a Choice Specs Serene Grace Flash Cannon to fire off for free. Here is a test replay of this situation: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen51v1-1383559291-gr8lggmda9hvw1jrfc7cilzimaj6dl6pw
Choice Specs beats a ton of pokes scarf struggles with, like Metagross, Suicune, and Non CB Garchomp if you have the right coverage.
Teams are either tasked with running something silly like Inner Focus Umbreon, Custap berry Fire types (or Heatran & Arcanine, who don't get flinched nor beat by Choice Specs coverage), or using a check like Zapdos or Rotom-Heat that just has to hope for no flinches. Some teams just lose to it.
Without Victini, Jirachi is just the best poke in the tier, in my opinion. It beats almost everything, and can hax the rest. I hope it gets suspected as soon as possible, as it is truly horrible to have in the Metagame. To me, it feels even worse than SwSh Genesect, as it requires even more specific Fire type sets if you don't want to get flinched to death.
I think this may be the last Gen 5 ban, as I really don't think Mew, Sableye, or anything else are capable of being particularly broken. I also think Blaziken should be unbanned, I struggle to see it being an issue in a tier with Latios and Keldeo being as good as they are and stiff Fighting type competition.
Gen 5 is cool, I enjoyed it a lot, but Jirachi just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I hope it gets banned as soon as possible, and even before World Cup ends. I understand if it's pushed back to after the tournment ends, but I can't stand having a broken poke that can also hax so much to death.
FARGO’s PIZZA (Post Clefable)
THIS IS A POST CLEFABLE TEAM. I had fun with the names. The only shaky mu I can think of is clops but from what I’ve been told, petaya Zapdos should handle that. Hyped for the adv mega update after the tournament is over.
It has been a few weeks since my last sample submission, luckily this one didn’t take 8 hours.
Zapdos is a bird. Known for pressure stalling, this is the pqs petaya set except it has agility for speed control and bull so it can live banded mence rock slide then outplay with agility into +1 petaya thunder. That’s right, this Zapdos is stuffed crust. Also has the usual matchups Zapdos beats. Hp grass for pert and stuff.
Sceptile with leech seed, protect, sub then stoss beats a lot of stuff like Registeel and literally most other things by breaking them down.
Armalod was chosen cause it can beat every Alakazam, every sceptile, brick break can beat Tauros. Rock blast to break through sub and to handle the pressure stallers, it has 104 defense to handle aero better.
Zapdos is a bird. Known for pressure stalling, this is the pqs petaya set except it has agility for speed control and bull so it can live banded mence rock slide then outplay with agility into +1 petaya thunder. That’s right, this Zapdos is stuffed crust. Also has the usual matchups Zapdos beats. Hp grass for pert and stuff.
Sceptile with leech seed, protect, sub then stoss beats a lot of stuff like Registeel and literally most other things by breaking them down.
Armalod was chosen cause it can beat every Alakazam, every sceptile, brick break can beat Tauros. Rock blast to break through sub and to handle the pressure stallers, it has 104 defense to handle aero better.
THIS IS A POST CLEFABLE TEAM. I had fun with the names. The only shaky mu I can think of is clops but from what I’ve been told, petaya Zapdos should handle that. Hyped for the adv mega update after the tournament is over.
Last edited:
This post only talks about my thoughts and not the council's. I do agree that Jirachi creates an overcentralizing metagame in both the building stage and the picking stage which can be deemed as unhealthy to the development of the metagame. Trashuny makes nice points when talking about the ability of Jirachi to run different sets such as Scarf, Specs, Balloon Icy Wind, and more and how every set can be hidden well while teambuilding. Choice+Trick also extremely annoys Jirachi's fat or slow offensive checks. With that being said, I believe Jirachi can tech against Ground-type Pokemon such as Garchomp and specially rhyperior pretty easily, and adding to that Steel-type is really great defensively in BW, which leaves only Fire-type Pokemon as sure check.
This is where it becomes tricky. Jirachi might fit the definition of a top tier Pokemon following the likes of Latios and Keldeo. The main difference is that both of these mentioned Pokemon do have a clear number or line when it comes to stuff that check and counter them. Latios can hardly break Steel-type Pokemon, and Spdf boosted Pokemon such as Tyranitar, and some sets also drop to Haban dragons which are popular. Meanwhile Keldeo have a hard time breaking through Electric- such as Thundurus, and Zapdos, and Grass-type Pokemon like Serperior, and Shaymin to say the least. When it comes to Jirachi, that list is very limited as due to Serene Grace nothing is a sure check except custap berry Fire-types and Pokemon like Heatran and Arcanine probably.
Now to play the devil's advocate, there's still not an instance where Jirachi won a matchup it shouldn't have won in World Cup (iirc?), which makes the argument that it can flinch all of it targets a theory and not facts. To put it in examples, it is true that slower Fire-types like Chandelure and Volcarona can be defeated by one flinch but this hasn't happened yet.
I'm actually in favor of a ban, but nothing can be actually done yet till we do more playtesting and make sure we make the right decision.
Speaking as someone with next to no B/W experience (IE Ignore this probably), I have a feeling the upcoming No Johns tournament would benefit greatly from a Rachi ban for the reasons above. However, I understand why this probably will not happen. I think the tour is gonna be good evidence as to whether or not Rachi does need a ban tho.
BW has a new sets comp https://pokepast.es/ce6ecf10c24e6658, still missing sets for some mons which will get updated after wc or no johns
also Sanshokuinsumireko was added to council! Congrats
since im here i'll speak on behalf of myself and not the rest of the council and say that jirachi is on the radar but no action is planned as of rn (to the rest of councils chagrin besides the blurb), its def a good mon but its not broken and the uncompetitive argument is meh imo. i view togekiss and mew as far more troubling in the builder, and togekiss has a better uncompetitive argument while also just being a better mon than jirachi (probably a hot take for most people) while mew, if you consider all sets and everything it can do, has very few hard counters in sableye and hera ig and ttar is obv hard to beat, and picking against it on preview is just sending a prayer to allah that it doesn't 3-0 you if ur opponent is a good builder. sableyes also p bs but its the most inconsistent mon of all gens of 1v1 w 75% wisp and crits. anyway we'll see how the meta progresses during wc playoffs and no johns and see if we need to take action
also Sanshokuinsumireko was added to council! Congrats
since im here i'll speak on behalf of myself and not the rest of the council and say that jirachi is on the radar but no action is planned as of rn (to the rest of councils chagrin besides the blurb), its def a good mon but its not broken and the uncompetitive argument is meh imo. i view togekiss and mew as far more troubling in the builder, and togekiss has a better uncompetitive argument while also just being a better mon than jirachi (probably a hot take for most people) while mew, if you consider all sets and everything it can do, has very few hard counters in sableye and hera ig and ttar is obv hard to beat, and picking against it on preview is just sending a prayer to allah that it doesn't 3-0 you if ur opponent is a good builder. sableyes also p bs but its the most inconsistent mon of all gens of 1v1 w 75% wisp and crits. anyway we'll see how the meta progresses during wc playoffs and no johns and see if we need to take action
Last edited:
Hello, I'm here to show off a gimmick set that I've made for Porygon2 in ADV 1v1.
Bulky Conversion Ghost Lure
Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD or 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD (Impish - mostly there to just barely tank a 252+ Atk Band Ursa/Tauros Hyper Beam)
Careful Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Conversion
- Hidden Power [Fighting] / Recover
- Sharpen / Recover / Psych Up
Set Breakdown:
"Other" Options that I'd Probably Wouldn't Recommend Using:
Notable Calcs:
Bulky Conversion Ghost Lure
Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD or 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD (Impish - mostly there to just barely tank a 252+ Atk Band Ursa/Tauros Hyper Beam)
Careful Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Conversion
- Hidden Power [Fighting] / Recover
- Sharpen / Recover / Psych Up
Set Breakdown:
- Shadow Ball + Conversion mainly exists to be immune to Seismic Toss, Counter, and some strong Normal/Fighting moves; Shadow Ball is meant to deal sufficient damage against Dusclops, Alakazam, Machamp (Band), and Hariyama (Band).
- HP Fighting is there to beat the mons that aren't Clops/Zam, specifically Blissey, Registeel, Regirock (Band), Tauros (Band), and Ursaring (Band).
- Sharpen just simply boosts P2's Attack stat.
"Other" Options that I'd Probably Wouldn't Recommend Using:
- Recover exists to recover P2's HP.
- Psych Up is there to obtain Calm Mind boosts from Dusclops and Blissey.
- Black Belt over Leftovers to guarantee the chance to OHKO Iron Defense Registeel with crit +6 Attack Boosts from using Sharpen.
Notable Calcs:
- +3 0 Atk Porygon2 Hidden Power Fighting vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 414-488 (63.4 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- +3 0 Atk burned Porygon2 Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Dusclops: 108-128 (38 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
- +5 0 Atk burned Porygon2 Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Dusclops: 153-180 (53.8 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- +3 0 Atk Porygon2 Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Dusclops: 221-260 (77.8 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- +3 0 Atk Porygon2 Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 147-174 (40.3 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
- +5 0 Atk Porygon2 Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 205-242 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- +2 0 Atk Porygon2 Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Machamp: 156-184 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
- +3 0 Atk Porygon2 Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Machamp: 196-231 (51 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- +3 0 Atk Porygon2 Shadow Ball vs. 96 HP / 252+ Def Hariyama: 176-208 (38.8 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
- +5 0 Atk Porygon2 Shadow Ball vs. 96 HP / 252+ Def Hariyama: 247-291 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- +2 0 Atk Porygon2 Hidden Power Fighting vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 91-108 (25 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
- +4 0 Atk Porygon2 Hidden Power Fighting vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 137-162 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
- +2 0 Atk Porygon2 Hidden Power Fighting vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Ursaring: 214-252 (60.9 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- +2 0 Atk Porygon2 Hidden Power Fighting vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 176-208 (51.3 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- +2 0 Atk Porygon2 Hidden Power Fighting vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 176-208 (60.2 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Ursaring Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Porygon2: 313-369 (83.6 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 104 Atk Choice Band Tauros Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Porygon2: 294-346 (78.6 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252 Atk Choice Band Tauros Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Porygon2: 238-280 (63.6 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Tauros Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Porygon2: 260-307 (69.5 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Any Zam that doesn't run the Barrier Set gets 2HKO'd by Shadow Ball, or OHKO'd by a Crit Shadow Ball (if P2 spams it nonstop since Turn 1).
In other words, spamming Recover with Alakazam after Turn 1 won't always guarantee Shadow Ball's possible and eventual loss of PP.
In other words, spamming Recover with Alakazam after Turn 1 won't always guarantee Shadow Ball's possible and eventual loss of PP.
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Salamence Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Porygon2: 304-358 (81.2 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Salamence Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Porygon2: 214-252 (57.2 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 0 Atk Porygon2 Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel on a critical hit: 363-428 (99.7 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
(Good luck landing the crit, you'll definitely need it.)
(Good luck landing the crit, you'll definitely need it.)
Last edited:
CLEFABLE REINCARNATED
Hello everyone, as you may know, clef is getting banned from 1v1, so I was looking at the mons that got twave, encore and stoss and there were two candidates.
One was Illumise but it’s weak to tons of things and has a x4 weakness to rock (I forgot this thing is pure bug) The other one was togetic which has three weakness, poor speed and hp, noticeable defenses and who’s gonna use its attack really. This is basically budget Clefable set
yup, it gets all the moves Clefable gets. Lum Berry for Alakazam, it can beat stuff most bit as much stuff as clef. I know togetic has 40 speed but remember paralysis in gen 3 lowers your speed by 75% instead of 50%
What this means is you don’t even have to invest in speed. For those wondering, togetic has 116 speed and yes. This can outspeed a paralyzing aerodactyl. What’s good is that it’s not weak to fighting so you can maybe beat some fighting types like heracross, Hariyama.
Here is Toge beating a mence: (sorry akuma)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1388513036-9vwp1m8rm829a2xxihk90ovrh4dkpobpw
But ladies and gentlemen, I have more to show you
Yes this has Dusclops Evs. With is can beat metagross and since it’s so close to dying. Counter can actually. This can beat Regirock. Jolly aerodactyl. (Adamant rolls you) can beat banded mence, marowak if it doesn’t carry sd (yea this Toge set is specific) and generally does the Toge stuff but you run leftovers for healing. I do also think you can run charm and negate banded mons attacking stat.
FINAL VERICT:
This, is quite literally, a budget version of Clefable. But it does have its nieches but it sucks that it’s weak to rock, ice, and electric so it’s beating Zapdos almost every time. What I would rank it, I honestly don’t know,m. I want to hear people’s opinions on the thread or the discord to share their thoughts on togetic and what rank it would be if it could be viable. (I do think ganlon or apicot berries can be useful on it)
That’s all I have for now. Remember to play ADV.
Hello everyone, as you may know, clef is getting banned from 1v1, so I was looking at the mons that got twave, encore and stoss and there were two candidates.
One was Illumise but it’s weak to tons of things and has a x4 weakness to rock (I forgot this thing is pure bug) The other one was togetic which has three weakness, poor speed and hp, noticeable defenses and who’s gonna use its attack really. This is basically budget Clefable set
SENZU BEAN (Togetic) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss
- Encore
- Soft-Boiled
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss
- Encore
- Soft-Boiled
yup, it gets all the moves Clefable gets. Lum Berry for Alakazam, it can beat stuff most bit as much stuff as clef. I know togetic has 40 speed but remember paralysis in gen 3 lowers your speed by 75% instead of 50%
What this means is you don’t even have to invest in speed. For those wondering, togetic has 116 speed and yes. This can outspeed a paralyzing aerodactyl. What’s good is that it’s not weak to fighting so you can maybe beat some fighting types like heracross, Hariyama.
Here is Toge beating a mence: (sorry akuma)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen31v1-1388513036-9vwp1m8rm829a2xxihk90ovrh4dkpobpw
But ladies and gentlemen, I have more to show you
Togetic @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Encore
- Seismic Toss
- Counter
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Encore
- Seismic Toss
- Counter
Yes this has Dusclops Evs. With is can beat metagross and since it’s so close to dying. Counter can actually. This can beat Regirock. Jolly aerodactyl. (Adamant rolls you) can beat banded mence, marowak if it doesn’t carry sd (yea this Toge set is specific) and generally does the Toge stuff but you run leftovers for healing. I do also think you can run charm and negate banded mons attacking stat.
FINAL VERICT:
This, is quite literally, a budget version of Clefable. But it does have its nieches but it sucks that it’s weak to rock, ice, and electric so it’s beating Zapdos almost every time. What I would rank it, I honestly don’t know,m. I want to hear people’s opinions on the thread or the discord to share their thoughts on togetic and what rank it would be if it could be viable. (I do think ganlon or apicot berries can be useful on it)
That’s all I have for now. Remember to play ADV.
Last edited:
direct all complaints on how long this took towards LRXC but ADV 1v1 Council has voted to quickban Clefable in ADV 1v1
theres not much more to say really that hasn't been said, the mons broken and nobody voiced any objections towards the ban so Clefable is now banned in ADV 1v1! Tagging Kris to implement
Brawl Meta Knight if ADV 1v1
direct all complaints on how long this took towards LRXC but ADV 1v1 Council has voted to quickban Clefable in ADV 1v1
theres not much more to say really that hasn't been said, the mons broken and nobody voiced any objections towards the ban so Clefable is now banned in ADV 1v1! Tagging Kris to implement
I do agree. There are some drawbacks but advantages compared to the other tiers.
ye but idt enough people are interested in it to turn it into a real format that people would play
and if it did become a format then people would be expecting gen 1 to become a thing too
uhh hi and welcome to episode 3 of heyman trying to do things in the 1v1 community, today i bring a team for which i totally didnt take help from every single adv player ever
team: https://pokepast.es/a0ea268db982c67f
description: zapdos and sceptile are a solid core, beats alot of crap and cover each other's weaknesses but certain fire types really put these mons to bed, so u have the best fire type answer and the best mon of all time..... plonky! (regirock), band just hits alot of things hard but its weak to types that the other two resist or are neutral to so it's a nice combo as a team
EV spreads: zapdos for some reason is fat af, but def/hp EVs are to bulk band ada rock slide from aero and fires off with tbolt killing it, sceptile is bulked for modest ice beam from regice, EVs on plonky help it survive special hits from charizard and shit, but surely it doesn't need em, it's plonky of course!
movesets: sceptile: leech seed, protect and substitute cuz it's subseed, stoss for regice, registeel and shit that normal tank other hits or have boosting moves
zapdos: thunderbolt cuz stab, hidden power grass for marowak and swampert, substitute cuz petaya and metal sound for dusclops
regirock: counter for hidden power users, superpower and EQ for coverage, hidden power rock cuz stab
possible 3-0's: it's a 50/50 against salamence since plonky beats almost all sets except ID but sceptile beats ID mence
(someone pointed out that marowak could beat my team but zapdos survives 1 rock slide and kills with 2 hp grass)
movesets to have better m/u's against certain mons: hp ice on zapdos instead of hp grass for mence to not have a 50/50, but that makes u lose to rest pert but then give sceptile leaf blade instead of stoss which gives u a tough m/u against regice but plonky should take care of it, also removing stoss on sceptile makes u lose to registeel but metal sound works fine on zapdos to beat registeel
here's the team with the sets for better m/u's: https://pokepast.es/b6eeadae7507ef23
credit to adam3560, dedddgamerman, doc1203, pqs and lrxc who helped with the team
that's all i have to say about this team
and play adv people, lrxc made it great and its unique/different from other 1v1 gens
team: https://pokepast.es/a0ea268db982c67f
description: zapdos and sceptile are a solid core, beats alot of crap and cover each other's weaknesses but certain fire types really put these mons to bed, so u have the best fire type answer and the best mon of all time..... plonky! (regirock), band just hits alot of things hard but its weak to types that the other two resist or are neutral to so it's a nice combo as a team
EV spreads: zapdos for some reason is fat af, but def/hp EVs are to bulk band ada rock slide from aero and fires off with tbolt killing it, sceptile is bulked for modest ice beam from regice, EVs on plonky help it survive special hits from charizard and shit, but surely it doesn't need em, it's plonky of course!
movesets: sceptile: leech seed, protect and substitute cuz it's subseed, stoss for regice, registeel and shit that normal tank other hits or have boosting moves
zapdos: thunderbolt cuz stab, hidden power grass for marowak and swampert, substitute cuz petaya and metal sound for dusclops
regirock: counter for hidden power users, superpower and EQ for coverage, hidden power rock cuz stab
possible 3-0's: it's a 50/50 against salamence since plonky beats almost all sets except ID but sceptile beats ID mence
(someone pointed out that marowak could beat my team but zapdos survives 1 rock slide and kills with 2 hp grass)
movesets to have better m/u's against certain mons: hp ice on zapdos instead of hp grass for mence to not have a 50/50, but that makes u lose to rest pert but then give sceptile leaf blade instead of stoss which gives u a tough m/u against regice but plonky should take care of it, also removing stoss on sceptile makes u lose to registeel but metal sound works fine on zapdos to beat registeel
here's the team with the sets for better m/u's: https://pokepast.es/b6eeadae7507ef23
credit to adam3560, dedddgamerman, doc1203, pqs and lrxc who helped with the team
that's all i have to say about this team
and play adv people, lrxc made it great and its unique/different from other 1v1 gens
Last edited:
Howdy Folks,
Urfgurgle here to let everyone know about the effort being made to turn GSC into a playable tier in spite of the format's quirks and limitations. Development of this meta had been dead for a long time, but Mishlef recently made a push to get the ball rolling again. However, Mishlef left mons shortly after and left SuperMemeBroz in charge of the project. SMB has been doing a fine job recruiting people and generating enthusiasm for the project; we have made a ton of progress fleshing out GSC 1v1 so far. We currently have an interim council consisting of SuperMemeBroz, Elo Bandit, Murman, superstrike66, RTM, and myself. We are working on resources including sample teams, a VR, and a sets compendium, all of which are already shaping up nicely.
Anyway, I don’t want to make this post too long, especially since most people probably stopped reading the moment they saw "GSC." So for those of you who are interested, please join our Discord, in which we are actively discussing and developing GSC 1v1. Also, check out the info and resources below!
WE NOW HAVE A POST ON PAGE ONE OF THIS THREAD (WE ARE A REAL TIER), SO THIS POST WILL NO LONGER BE UPDATED
Ruleset: Obtainable, Species Clause, Nickname Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Accuracy Moves Clause, HP Percentage Mod, Cancel Mod, Team Preview
Banlist: Celebi, Ho-Oh, Lugia, Mew, Mewtwo, Snorlax, Clefable, Zapdos, Hypnosis, Lovely Kiss, Sing, Sleep Powder, Spore, Explosion, Self-Destruct, Flash, Kinesis, Sand Attack, Smokescreen, Mud Slap, Octazooka, Swagger, Perish Song, Destiny Bond, Present, Berserk Gene, Bright Powder, King's Rock, Focus Band, Quick Claw
Banlist: Celebi, Ho-Oh, Lugia, Mew, Mewtwo, Snorlax, Clefable, Zapdos, Hypnosis, Lovely Kiss, Sing, Sleep Powder, Spore, Explosion, Self-Destruct, Flash, Kinesis, Sand Attack, Smokescreen, Mud Slap, Octazooka, Swagger, Perish Song, Destiny Bond, Present, Berserk Gene, Bright Powder, King's Rock, Focus Band, Quick Claw
Since this format is not currently supported by Pokémon Showdown, it can only be played by using the following command to issue a challenge:
/chall gen2ou@@@ -uber, max team size=3, picked team size=1, -Berserk Gene, -Bright Powder, -King's Rock, -Quick Claw, -Focus Band, -Snorlax, -Clefable, -Zapdos, -Hypnosis, -Lovely Kiss, -Sing, -Sleep Powder, -Spore, -Explosion, -Self-Destruct, -Flash, -Kinesis, -Sand Attack, -Smokescreen, -Mud Slap, -Octazooka, -Swagger, -Perish Song, -Destiny Bond, -Present, teampreview
If you want to create a room tournament, use these commands:
/tour create gen2ou, elimination/round robin
/tour rules -uber, max team size=3, picked team size=1, -Berserk Gene, -Bright Powder, -King's Rock, -Quick Claw, -Focus Band, -Snorlax, -Clefable, -Zapdos, -Hypnosis, -Lovely Kiss, -Sing, -Sleep Powder, -Spore, -Explosion, -Selfdestruct, -Flash, -Kinesis, -Sand Attack, -Smokescreen, -Mud Slap, -Octazooka, -Swagger, -Perish Song, -Destiny Bond, -Present, teampreview
/tour name [Gen 2] 1v1
/chall gen2ou@@@ -uber, max team size=3, picked team size=1, -Berserk Gene, -Bright Powder, -King's Rock, -Quick Claw, -Focus Band, -Snorlax, -Clefable, -Zapdos, -Hypnosis, -Lovely Kiss, -Sing, -Sleep Powder, -Spore, -Explosion, -Self-Destruct, -Flash, -Kinesis, -Sand Attack, -Smokescreen, -Mud Slap, -Octazooka, -Swagger, -Perish Song, -Destiny Bond, -Present, teampreview
If you want to create a room tournament, use these commands:
/tour create gen2ou, elimination/round robin
/tour rules -uber, max team size=3, picked team size=1, -Berserk Gene, -Bright Powder, -King's Rock, -Quick Claw, -Focus Band, -Snorlax, -Clefable, -Zapdos, -Hypnosis, -Lovely Kiss, -Sing, -Sleep Powder, -Spore, -Explosion, -Selfdestruct, -Flash, -Kinesis, -Sand Attack, -Smokescreen, -Mud Slap, -Octazooka, -Swagger, -Perish Song, -Destiny Bond, -Present, teampreview
/tour name [Gen 2] 1v1
With Zapdos recently banned, we had to remove a few samples. We are working to replace them soon!
Blissey by Elo Bandit
Alakazam by Elo Bandit
Gyarados by Elo Bandit
Icy Boi by RTM
Heracross by Elo Bandit
Murmegg 2 by Murman
Blissey by Elo Bandit
Alakazam by Elo Bandit
Gyarados by Elo Bandit
Icy Boi by RTM
Heracross by Elo Bandit
Murmegg 2 by Murman
Sets VR/Compendium: https://pokepast.es/c4ed6a1e221c03e0
VR/Samples Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...EwaHIhThR0o93mwv58DdCAdL9Tk/edit?usp=drivesdk
Last edited:
welp look at us now
