(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

More something that confuses me than annoys me really but w/e, reminded of by a post in another thread

QuentinQuonce said:
I know this, I was planning to post an image of them on the subreddit and sit back as people bid for them. 6IV battle ready Walking Wake or bust!
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I really don’t get why 6IV, 5IV mons are even a thing anymore as big trade items since the advent and improved accessibility over time of Hyper Training.
 
Coronis said:
More something that confuses me than annoys me really but w/e, reminded of by a post in another thread



I really don’t get why 6IV, 5IV mons are even a thing anymore as big trade items since the advent and improved accessibility over time of Hyper Training.
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(I was kidding, but) personally speaking, I understand why people would rather have a mon with naturally perfect IVs than one artificially changed.

For one thing, it's future-proofed. Yes Hyper Training has remained a thing, but I don't think we can hand-on-heart say we're certain it'll *always* remain a thing: famously, Game Freak giveth with one hand and taketh with another. There was even a glitch initially with Bank iirc where a Hyper Trained Pokemon would lose its Hyper Trained status.

But it also shows a level of skill and, implicitly, status. Any fool can mint and hyper train a Pokemon but only a pro can breed it properly to be flawless. Serious collectors are less likely to trade for any old Pokemon, but it's more attractive to be able to offer a flawless HA shiny Scorbunny than a non-flawless one. Hyper Training doesn't allow you to pass IVs on when breeding so a HT'd Pokemon isn't useful for that, either.

Just my feeling. It's absolutely a symbolic thing still but I think the hangover from the time in which IVs mattered is a strong one.
 
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QuentinQuonce said:
(I was kidding, but) personally speaking, I understand why people would rather have a mon with naturally perfect IVs than one artificially changed.

For one thing, it's future-proofed. Yes Hyper Training has remained a thing, but I don't think we can hand-on-heart say we're certain it'll remain a thing: famously, Game Freak giveth with one hand and taketh with another. There was even a glitch initially with Bank iirc where a Hyper Trained Pokemon would lose its Hyper Trained status.

But it also shows a level of skill and, implicitly, status. Any fool can mint and hyper train a Pokemon but only a pro can breed it properly to be flawless. Serious collectors are less likely to trade for any old Pokemon, but it's more attractive to be able to offer a flawless HA shiny Scorbunny than a non-flawless one. Hyper Training doesn't allow you to pass IVs on when breeding so a HT'd Pokemon isn't useful for that, either.

Just my feeling. It's absolutely a symbolic thing still but I think the hangover from the time in which IVs mattered is a strong one.
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Also if they ever return Hidden Power to existence.
 
QuentinQuonce said:
For one thing, it's future-proofed. Yes Hyper Training has remained a thing, but I don't think we can hand-on-heart say we're certain it'll *always* remain a thing: famously, Game Freak giveth with one hand and taketh with another. There was even a glitch initially with Bank iirc where a Hyper Trained Pokemon would lose its Hyper Trained status.
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FWIW, Hypertrain is definitely here to stay. If it would go it'd be in favour of some even more convenient way to alter IVs.
(Same applies to nature Mints and Ability changing items)

It's far too important for competitive and it needs to exist if they want to avoid having every serious VGC player being forced to gen their mons.
 
They do, and probably always will, but by & large gamefreak probably knows both those components and every generation they do try & lower the barriers just so (1) more people don't feel inclined too and (2) the people who don't want to (or can't, for whatever reason) aren't at SUCH a deficit

It's gamefreak so the actual issues are the extent to which they implement these features (ie: Ability Patches are cool! They are also a pain to obtain and will probably need another generation in the oven like Ability Capsules) and the speed at which they actually make them better (ie it took until gen 9 for hyper training to be at the much more respectable level 50 instead of 100), but they do generally try to keep to that.
 
A part of me is a little upset how they've made shiny hunting easier. Just a little bit. My biggest gripe is probably how they adjusted the base shiny rate to 1/4096 from 1/8192, and that's probably just from me being a grumpy old fan who has found a full-odds shiny in nearly every main game I played up until Gen 6 when they upped the rate.

Beyond that, though, I don't really mind most specific methods of increasing the shiny rate. The Shiny Charm is a good reward for finishing the Pokédex; it rewards players for playing the game. Chaining (Pokéradar/Fishing/SOS battles) is pretty interesting and has work/planning behind it (fishing doesn't I guess). Gen 8 had that weird encounter thing where your odds of finding a shiny in glowing grass increased as you fought more Pokémon of a specific species. Again, it's something that rewards playing the game for a long time. Gen 9's sandwiches are probably the most direct and functionally simple of increasing the shiny rate, but you need to complete tough raids to get the Herba Mystica that make it possible. You also need to know how to make the best sandwiches, but that information is pretty easy to find on the internet.

After considering all of this, I realized that what I really hate about increasing the shiny rate is the people who shiny hunt and make such a big deal out of it. I really don't see the appeal of shiny hunting. Sure, there are Pokémon I'd love to have the shiny form of, but going out of the way to hunt them feels antithetical to what made shinies special in the first place. If I have a shiny, it's because the RNG decided to be nice to me in that specific instance. To each their own, of course, but I get exasperated when people shiny hunting complain that they didn't find their targeted shiny on the first sandwich or something. To me it all feels like a waste of time.

As an anecdote, a part of me lost a little enthusiasm for shinies when, in my middle school years, I learned that that there was only one shiny per Pokémon. Before I knew about websites like Serebii, I thought it would be cool to find a blue shiny Octillery, but unfortunately that's not possible. I still had a lot of fun looking at all the different shiny colors in the Pokédex when I discovered Serebii, though.
 
CPU said:
As an anecdote, a part of me lost a little enthusiasm for shinies when, in my middle school years, I learned that that there was only one shiny per Pokémon. Before I knew about websites like Serebii, I thought it would be cool to find a blue shiny Octillery, but unfortunately that's not possible.
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You know, I think this is one reason why I myself don't really consider Shinies big deal. When you hear the concept of Shinies they sound cool, alt colored Pokemon. But in practice a lot of Shinies just don't look that appealing.
  • We of course first have the Shinies who barely look any different from their normal colors, like what's the point?
  • Then we have a connected group to the above where most of it is the same but then there's a part of them which is really colored differently. Okay, that's interesting, how about you finish making the rest of it interesting and than we'll talk.
  • Next are the "be careful what you wish for" which are Shinies that are notably different color but the colors are just bad. Either the color is offensively vibrant or is dull. Shinies are meant to be the cooler looking ones, right? Why are you making Shinies which makes me prefer the normal colors?
  • Getting into the territory of good colors, even here we have problems. Let me first emphasize that black colored shinies, especially for Pokemon which normally have a brighter color scheme, look slick. Charizard, Greninja, Rayquaza, Primal Ground & Kyogre, and now Koraidon; all their Black Shiny look awesome. But, it's also a bit of a "safe" choice. When you think of a alt colored for these Pokemon, I think a Deep Red Charizard, Green Greninja, Sunset Orange Rayquaza, Groudon and Kyogra swapping main colors, etc.. Making them black, while making them look cool, I also feels take away the chance of giving a Shiny which accentuates the aesthetic or theme of the design.
  • Which leads to the final group (at least of this list of complaints, I'm sure I can think of more like how Pokmon with different forms have their Shiny treated) of the near misses. This sort of can fit in with the too vibrant/dull" ones as that's usually what the miss is about. Shiny Nidoking is blue like Nidoqueen, cool! So that must mean Nidoqueen... is this ugly dull green with pink highlights instead of the rich purple Nidoking is, wtf? Mega & Gigantamax Gengar is a neat ghostly white... which is a big improvement over normal Gengar just being an off shade of its original color; if you've figured out a better Shiny color for Gengar, CHANGE THE BASE SHINY COLOR!
When a Shiny color works its great, but GF just has a bad record of it and because Pokemon only have one Shiny (which GF REFUSE to change the off chance one person complains about it... again the hundreds of thousands who would like it and are complaining about it now) the many who have a bad one are SOL. At least a Pokemon is meant to look good in its normal colors, so unless GF starts actually caring about Shiny colors in the same way I just can't see about caring about Shiny Pokemon.

The reason I stop to catch any Shiny I see is JUST because they're rare, not because I like them, and I have a feeling that's a reason why most people go after Shiny, and I don't think that's what we're supposed to feel when we encounter one. :blobthinking:
 
I would say the rarity is part of the intended appeal considering that even in gen 2 there's a blinding flash to make sure you know it's different and rare and ohhh you want one so bad we got you hooked on the gyarados.
They use shinies as events because it adds extra, rarer value even if it's a dull shiny on a Pokemon that isn't shiny locked.
Likewise even now, with the increased rates, they're still rare enough and they stick out in a crowd. If it was just a color difference and had a reasonable chance of showing up of course not as many people would care, because then it would be common place enough that a crowd of Mareep could have a variety of wool colors. At that point its just picking your favorite (or not caring at all) and moving on. See also: Any pokemon that has a common (or common-ish) alternate color that can even intermingle sometimes.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
You know, I think this is one reason why I myself don't really consider Shinies big deal. When you hear the concept of Shinies they sound cool, alt colored Pokemon. But in practice a lot of Shinies just don't look that appealing.
  • We of course first have the Shinies who barely look any different from their normal colors, like what's the point?
  • Then we have a connected group to the above where most of it is the same but then there's a part of them which is really colored differently. Okay, that's interesting, how about you finish making the rest of it interesting and than we'll talk.
  • Next are the "be careful what you wish for" which are Shinies that are notably different color but the colors are just bad. Either the color is offensively vibrant or is dull. Shinies are meant to be the cooler looking ones, right? Why are you making Shinies which makes me prefer the normal colors?
  • Getting into the territory of good colors, even here we have problems. Let me first emphasize that black colored shinies, especially for Pokemon which normally have a brighter color scheme, look slick. Charizard, Greninja, Rayquaza, Primal Ground & Kyogre, and now Koraidon; all their Black Shiny look awesome. But, it's also a bit of a "safe" choice. When you think of a alt colored for these Pokemon, I think a Deep Red Charizard, Green Greninja, Sunset Orange Rayquaza, Groudon and Kyogra swapping main colors, etc.. Making them black, while making them look cool, I also feels take away the chance of giving a Shiny which accentuates the aesthetic or theme of the design.
  • Which leads to the final group (at least of this list of complaints, I'm sure I can think of more like how Pokmon with different forms have their Shiny treated) of the near misses. This sort of can fit in with the too vibrant/dull" ones as that's usually what the miss is about. Shiny Nidoking is blue like Nidoqueen, cool! So that must mean Nidoqueen... is this ugly dull green with pink highlights instead of the rich purple Nidoking is, wtf? Mega & Gigantamax Gengar is a neat ghostly white... which is a big improvement over normal Gengar just being an off shade of its original color; if you've figured out a better Shiny color for Gengar, CHANGE THE BASE SHINY COLOR!
When a Shiny color works its great, but GF just has a bad record of it and because Pokemon only have one Shiny (which GF REFUSE to change the off chance one person complains about it... again the hundreds of thousands who would like it and are complaining about it now) the many who have a bad one are SOL. At least a Pokemon is meant to look good in its normal colors, so unless GF starts actually caring about Shiny colors in the same way I just can't see about caring about Shiny Pokemon.

The reason I stop to catch any Shiny I see is JUST because they're rare, not because I like them, and I have a feeling that's a reason why most people go after Shiny, and I don't think that's what we're supposed to feel when we encounter one. :blobthinking:
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I just posted about some of my favorite pokemon memes on Twitter and this reminded me of a tumblr post that might qualify:

types of shiny pokemons
  • better than original
  • green
  • um..
  • you cannot tell difference between the shiny and original no matter how hard you try
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tumblr_inline_ofqanqtixX1t9kkcx_250.pnj
 
and the new shiny type they've added ever since the move to 3D: We have change one (1) specific part of the Pokemon and left the rest unchanged.
Which itself has subsections because they're either going to do the cool thing and change a big specific part (Orthworm chose the red, the Future Paradoxes choose the "paint" on the metal) or are they gonna change the really tiny part and make you groan (WHY DOES THE ENTIRE CHARCADET LINE ONLY CHANGE THE EYE COLOR)
 
CPU said:
A part of me is a little upset how they've made shiny hunting easier. Just a little bit. My biggest gripe is probably how they adjusted the base shiny rate to 1/4096 from 1/8192, and that's probably just from me being a grumpy old fan who has found a full-odds shiny in nearly every main game I played up until Gen 6 when they upped the rate.
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Well that's great for you, but as someone who played every main game and didn't find a legit random wild shiny* until gen 7, I approve of the boost in odds!

I also am glad they didn't nerf the odds again for SV. Some people act like they run over shinies every 20 seconds. I've got a decent number of random shinies even without sandwiches or the charm, but I don't think it's been an excessive amount at all.





*That shiny was just a Delibird too ;_; For comparison, my brother got 2 random shinies in Silver (though one was a Graveller that exploded).
 
R_N said:
and the new shiny type they've added ever since the move to 3D: We have change one (1) specific part of the Pokemon and left the rest unchanged.
Which itself has subsections because they're either going to do the cool thing and change a big specific part (Orthworm chose the red, the Future Paradoxes choose the "paint" on the metal) or are they gonna change the really tiny part and make you groan (WHY DOES THE ENTIRE CHARCADET LINE ONLY CHANGE THE EYE COLOR)
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Man, I absolutely hate that lines shiny colours. It’s the smallest part of the design, on an already tiny Mon in Charcadets case, and was easily the biggest missed opportunity for a shiny ever. I would have LOVED to see their colour schemes be swapped completely, a Purple Armarouge and Yellow and Orange Ceruledge would have been awesome, but nope they changed the eye colour and nothing else.

Also speaking of black shinies being the most cool yet stupidly safe I will forever be reminded of a Truegreen7 video where they reworked some shiny colours for gen 9 Mons. And nothing against the dude at all his content is great, but damn everyone and their mother always votes for the Black shinies 99% of the time even when there’s a better choice like with Red and Orange ceruledge to match the Blue and Violet Armarouge. Like Jet Black looks great but there’s a limit to that
 
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RocketSurgery said:
Well that's great for you, but as someone who played every main game and didn't find a legit random wild shiny* until gen 7, I approve of the boost in odds!

I also am glad they didn't nerf the odds again for SV. Some people act like they run over shinies every 20 seconds. I've got a decent number of random shinies even without sandwiches or the charm, but I don't think it's been an excessive amount at all.





*That shiny was just a Delibird too ;_; For comparison, my brother got 2 random shinies in Silver (though one was a Graveller that exploded).
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Sorry, if I came off as entitled about getting shinies before the rate was increased. The point I think I was trying to get at was that, now that there are multiple ways of increasing the shiny odds, increasing the base rate seems less important.

I guess there was also some literal truth to the "grumpy old" description I used, too, in a "back in my day, we let RNG determine if we goy a shiny, and we liked it!" sense. Ignoring, of course, RNG manipulation to get shinies...

I personally wouldn't have minded the shiny rate being reverted to 1/8192 in SV with how many more encounters you can see without needing to battle them (I found 6 shinies before even doing the Academy Ace Tournament), but it's not a big deal.
 
R_N said:
I would say the rarity is part of the intended appeal considering that even in gen 2 there's a blinding flash to make sure you know it's different and rare and ohhh you want one so bad we got you hooked on the gyarados.
They use shinies as events because it adds extra, rarer value even if it's a dull shiny on a Pokemon that isn't shiny locked.
Likewise even now, with the increased rates, they're still rare enough and they stick out in a crowd. If it was just a color difference and had a reasonable chance of showing up of course not as many people would care, because then it would be common place enough that a crowd of Mareep could have a variety of wool colors. At that point its just picking your favorite (or not caring at all) and moving on. See also: Any pokemon that has a common (or common-ish) alternate color that can even intermingle sometimes.
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I think this is part of what makes Shiny hunting in SV fun for me: Instead of triggering the encounters and waiting for the sparkle when the smoke clears, now it's wading through the herd and spotting an eye-catch. And maybe this is me being dumb, but I think the Pokemon mixing in with the "normal" crowd goes a long way to emphasize their nature as rare standouts cosmetically.
 
CPU said:
Sorry, if I came off as entitled about getting shinies before the rate was increased. The point I think I was trying to get at was that, now that there are multiple ways of increasing the shiny odds, increasing the base rate seems less important.

I guess there was also some literal truth to the "grumpy old" description I used, too, in a "back in my day, we let RNG determine if we goy a shiny, and we liked it!" sense. Ignoring, of course, RNG manipulation to get shinies...

I personally wouldn't have minded the shiny rate being reverted to 1/8192 in SV with how many more encounters you can see without needing to battle them (I found 6 shinies before even doing the Academy Ace Tournament), but it's not a big deal.
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You're good, I should have thrown an emoji in there with the exclamation point to show I wasn't taking it seriously :), though I personally do appreciate the much boosted odds for random encounters.
 
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pika pal said:
I think this is part of what makes Shiny hunting in SV fun for me: Instead of triggering the encounters and waiting for the sparkle when the smoke clears, now it's wading through the herd and spotting an eye-catch. And maybe this is me being dumb, but I think the Pokemon mixing in with the "normal" crowd goes a long way to emphasize their nature as rare standouts cosmetically.
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Yeah I love this just randomly scooting round on my Miraidon - WAIT was that a blue Lycanroc?! skiddddddd
 
Karxrida said:
Why is Breloom the only mushroom Pokémon that doesn't have Spore in its level-up movepool. (Outside of move relearner in BDSP but it's BDSP so who cares.)

Don't tell it's because Game Freak knew it was good, because Amoongus still has it in its level-up movepool.
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The design ethos for Shroomish was a play on the "keep unevolved to learn different moves before evolving", probably since there's such a big design difference between the pair. Since Shroomish is more "mushroom" than weird kangaroo, it gets Spore as the grand prize for doing this.

Which is stupid, of course, because Shroomish only had 4 moves over Breloom (Poison Powder, Growth, Giga Drain, Spore) and of those only Spore actually mattered.
And for some reason they just continued being married to this concept, even adding a few extra moves for Shroomish, despite Spore continuing to be the only thing that really mattered

And now, man I dunno, I guess they think its Shroomish's thing and integral to its identity even though Gen 9 Breloom can still move relearner Poison Powder, Toxic & Growth (& get Giga Drain through TM) so now its literally the only reason to keep Shroomish as a Shroomish. Dumb!
 
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New research tasks with the Home update definitely implies the Paldean Gym Leaders have Paldean Pokemon as their signature, which makes their use of an older Pokemon that has to terastalize in order to fit into their team more jarring. I get the devs have to showcase the newest gimmick and show tricks you can use to change up older Pokemon, but it feels only the 1st 3 gyms do anything worthwhile with this. Like, yeah Electric Levitate Mismagius is cool, but is it worth it to sideline Bellibolt, the brand new Pokemon that was most likely designed with being Iono's signature in mind, as a regular team member?
 
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Imperial Magala said:
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New research tasks with the Home update definitely implies the Paldean Gym Leaders have Paldean Pokemon as their signature, which makes their use of an older Pokemon that has to terastalize in order to fit into their team more jarring. I get the devs have to showcase the newest gimmick and show tricks you can use to change up older Pokemon, but it feels only the 1st 3 games do anything worthwhile with this. Like, yeah Electric Levitate Mismagius is cool, but is it worth it to sideline Bellibolt, the brand new Pokemon that was most likely designed with being Iono's signature in mind, as a regular team member?
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I always figured that was the case. Like, in the future when they're brought over to Masters I imagine their "Signature" Gen IX Pokemon will be their first Sync Pair and then later on with special costumes add in their Tera Mon.

Though, these research task does give us an opportunity in seeing which of the Paldea Pokemon is considered to be their "Signature"; Only their Tera Mon has a different Level from all their other Pokemon. And I'm assuming if they're being used in HOME that some official approval from either GF or at least the Pokemon Company was done. While some choices are obvious, some not-so-much:
  • Katy: Nymble/Lokix (When the other choice is Tarountula/Spidops, yeah, this is the better choice. Poor Katy, she doesn't really have any great options. If I were her I'd petition that the Hisuian Pokemon count as Gen IX Pokemon just so she could have Kleavor be her ace)
  • Brassius: Smoliv/Arboliva
  • Iono: Bellibolt
  • Kofu: Wugtrio (Really, not Veluza? The seafood chef's signature isn't the fish which LITERALLY fillet itself and the Dex mentions its cut off pieces taste delicious? Or, in that matter, it's not the BIG fish which is also a sushi chef which has a Sig Move called "Order Up"?)
  • Larry: Dudunsparce
  • Ryme: Houndstone
  • Tulip: Farigiraf (Huh, I would have thought it would be the more elegant Espathra)
  • Grusha: Cetitan
 
Pikachu315111 said:
Katy: Nymble/Lokix (When the other choice is Tarountula/Spidops, yeah, this is the better choice. Poor Katy, she doesn't really have any great options. If I were her I'd petition that the Hisuian Pokemon count as Gen IX Pokemon just so she could have Kleavor be her ace)
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I mean in that case it would be Ursaluna, not Kleavor.
Pikachu315111 said:
Kofu: Wugtrio (Really, not Veluza? The seafood chef's signature isn't the fish which LITERALLY fillet itself and the Dex mentions its cut off pieces taste delicious? Or, in that matter, it's not the BIG fish which is also a sushi chef which has a Sig Move called "Order Up"?)
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Also his catchphrase is "Vaulting Veluza!"
 
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