Do'h, yeah, I meant it to be the 30th Anniversary. Shouldn't write posts 1 in the morning before going to bed...
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
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Do'h, yeah, I meant it to be the 30th Anniversary. Shouldn't write posts 1 in the morning before going to bed...
Do'h, yeah, I meant it to be the 30th Anniversary. Shouldn't write posts 1 in the morning before going to bed...
It's a bad habit I'm equally guilty of, dw.
I know he gets hate for being budget Hau, but honestly I liked Hop's story. Being the kid brother of the most famous Trainer in the region is hard, and putting that pressure on himself is so tough. I think what really hits home is when you realize that he's the only rival in the entire franchise (except for Blue's Raticate and we know how that goes, and N who specifically uses Pokemon he caught lying around) to drop a Pokemon from his team at any point in the story (though he brings them back later once he has his reckoning at Circhester), and they're the Pokemon that he started with in Wooloo and Corvisquire. Bede's insult hit deep and he's desperately willing to do anything to beat you and prove himself, including boxing his best friends.
I think what really drives home the point is the Max Raid battle with Eternatus. His Dubwool, for this battle specifically, has had Cotton Guard replaced with Take Down (though it will pretty much only ever use Double-Edge). He might not be the most skilled trainer, but by god he's going to have the heart of one.
I think what really drives home the point is the Max Raid battle with Eternatus. His Dubwool, for this battle specifically, has had Cotton Guard replaced with Take Down (though it will pretty much only ever use Double-Edge). He might not be the most skilled trainer, but by god he's going to have the heart of one.
I think it's kind of unfair to look at Mega Evolution in the same vein as the super mechanics that came afterwards, because while it may technically be a super mechanic from a gameplay mechanics standpoint, the design philosophy behind it is completely different from that of future super mechanics, in that it's an extremely specific and personalized transformation power-up whereas future super mechanics tried to be more general, especially Terastal which is a completely general and universal power-up transformation with absolutely no specific/special version of it assigned to any Pokemon.
Mega Evolution is more in line with say, cross gen evolutions or regional forms in that the Mega Evolution itself is functionally an entirely new and different Pokemon in its own right. It's an individualized set of stat boosts to the Pokemon who gets it and oftentimes the Pokemon changes its ability or in some cases type combination, effectively creating a functionally different Pokemon from the base form. In some cases it may very well just be the mon but stronger, but oftentimes the Mega Evolved version of a Pokemon often functions completely differently, and different Megas often occupied different niches. You had some Megas which were offensively oriented and basically hard hitters like Charizard Y, Gardevoir, and Medicham, but on the other hand you had plenty of more defensively oriented Megas like Aggron, Sableye, and Audino who were more enhanced walls/annoyers that played more on defensive utility. And then you had different Megas serving different purposes across the tiers.
In that sense it's quite different from the later super mechanics and shouldn't really be looked at in the same thought process. Megas are basically evolved forms of the mon they derive from in their own right and like any Pokemon, some are bound to be less good than others: such is the nature of individual Pokemon in general.
The only "general" mechanic thus far that has really been particularly flexible in how it can be used is Terastal since Terastal despite being on the far opposite end of Megas in that it's completely general and universal, is functionally from a gameplay standpoint an in-battle transformation like how Mega Evolution is, except it takes being a general transformation and fully commits to it, in that unlike Megas which were individual stat boosts and ability changes, Terastal is oftentimes a simple type change and/or type boost that is activated by the transformation and the mon itself is functionally the same barring the boost to type and oftentimes the change in type. That said, that aspect of Terastal is very much a part of Terastal's individuality as a mechanic and what makes Terastal, well, Terastal.
Likewise, Mega Evolution stands out on its own because its unique trait is being a specific/personalized transformation that involves unique stat boosts to individual Pokemon who get it and oftentimes a fundamental change in the Pokemon. It fully committed to being a specified mechanic for certain Pokemon only and went in on making the most of it in that regard.
Z-Moves and Dynamax were functionally as battle mechanics effective nuke buttons. While Dynamax/Gigantamax "technically" was a transformation, it was one that lasted three turns, and the whole thing was effectively boosted nuke moves that had universal secondary effects (admittedly making for a rather boringly overpowered mechanic that I have openly expressed my dislike for), or in the case of G-Max a specialized secondary effect of a G-Max Move, and Z-Moves were effectively a one-use nuke button in a battle, not an actual change in the mon.
A bit of a rant but I feel like homogenizing super mechanics to make them similar to each other basically robs them all of what makes them distinct from each other, so I don't think "redoing" Megas would be a good idea. I do feel different people would feel differently about each super mechanic depending on what they want from a super mechanic, but each mechanic inherently had a different design philosophy from the get go and not all of them were inherently intended as "super nukes". They're all functionally different from each other.
Like Mega Evolution are basically designed as honorary new Pokemon and are an in-battle transformation, Z-Moves are basically a widespread one-use nuke button, Dynamax is basically "nuke buttons that cause different battle effects for three turns", and Terastal is basically a generalized in-battle transformation that involves type change/type boost.
Mega Evolution was very much effective at what it was aiming to do, which was to be a personalized buff for specific Pokemon, and fully went in on that, being new designs that were an evolution of the base mon's design (thus having new designs to stand out to fans), being stat boosts, ability changes, and in some cases a type combo change to effectively create a fundamentally new Pokemon. But like all Pokemon, there's always going to be some that are more effective than others: that's just the nature of Megas being effectively new Pokemon in their own right, and they're subject to that same power scaling that all ordinary Pokemon are subject to, but just about all of them were improvements to the original Pokemon.
So in that sense it really isn't comparable to future mechanics which tried to be more generalized. But those future mechanics shine best because they're more generic. Terastal is a completely general transformation mechanic that is designed to be a generic transformation that any Pokemon can use, and that's its individuality and defining trait as a super mechanic. Z-Moves are a one-use nuke button, and that's all they are. Dynamax in my opinion was fundamentally flawed from its conception but it took being a "nuke button move" to the extreme, basically its entire use was nuke moves with secondary effects, either homogenized universal ones or specific secondary effects for G-Max.
Really the main thing when we see a game with Megas again (ie Kalos or Hoenn revisit) wouldn't be to "redo" them but to simply expand on their use, perhaps by just having more mons that can Mega Evolve and getting more creative with the changes and stat boosts they do to future Megas whenever they revisit it. It's not meant to be a generic power-up and shouldn't try to be generic in any way, because the future mechanics work as general mechanics since they were designed as such from the onset but Megas aren't designed as such. If I wanted a generic power-up, I would just have Terastal or Z-Moves for that since that's their job as super mechanics.
Different super mechanics are different from each other, and that's how it should be if they want to keep making different ones.
On the topic of Mega Evolution, it's not quite an unpopular opinion, but my unpopular... perspective(?) is that I never wanted my favourite Pokemon to get Mega Evolutions, even back in the heyday of the mechanic. The weaknesses of a Pokemon are part of the whole package of why I like it, so I don't really want some massive buff for them, nor do I want a lateral move that just adds item/mechanical bloat as a core part of their identity moving forward. The one-and-done nature of Megas also made me super apprehensive about the prospect: there's nothing anyone can do if you don't like the design or feel like the Mega's concept is too far from what you liked about the original. This is especially problematic if the Mega is strong enough to catapult the Pokemon into viability and/or popularity, overshadowing the original entirely.
Of course, this is true of regular evolutions too, but the design philosophy of Megas often makes them more extreme in appearance and therefore more polarising. Additionally, some of the dex entries for Megas point to an increased, unsustainable level of aggression, inconvenience, and sometimes pain brought about by the power boost. They're no longer animals with a relationship to their surrounding ecosystem, but instead something scarier and almost artificial. That's not really the vibe I'm after for my favourite Pokemon!
This was definitely part of the inspiration for my Beedrill solo XY challenge (apart from having limited options for 3DS challenges due to only having one game and system, hah). The Mega was the only thing that made it relevant and I wanted to see if I could make it work without it.
I remember back in the optimistic days of early SwSh speculation thinking about how to allocate the potential possibilities for a particular mon:
- Megas were the preferred option for most fully evolved mons, since they offered the possibility of bringing in a new concept in addition to enhancing an existing one
- Z-moves are preferred in the case of a mon with an identity-defining Status move. It doesn't even need to be technically a signature item since it can simply apply to the main move instead.
- GMax would mostly be reserved for mons with item-tied identities (which would include many NFEs due to Eviolite), possibly branching out into other mons with complete concepts and a singular effect for a damaging move (Dhelmise was my prime example for this group)
I can't imagine deciding whether to play a new game based on whether my favourite Pokemon got buffs haha, but I enjoy this idea that your favourites need to get stronger to keep your interest, if only because it buries Karen's stupid monologue for good.
Ultimately, I think there are two competing brands of cynicism at play here. Most people see it as a sign of laziness and greed if Game Freak don't keep giving their old favourites new toys to play with, whereas I just don't trust Game Freak to buff my favourites in a way that I'll actually like.
Ultimately, I think there are two competing brands of cynicism at play here. Most people see it as a sign of laziness and greed if Game Freak don't keep giving their old favourites new toys to play with, whereas I just don't trust Game Freak to buff my favourites in a way that I'll actually like.
And then there's the majority, people like me who don't care at all and play Pokemon games just cause they like pokemon, and the presence or not of their favourite does not influence if they will play the game or not, and do not think there is any lazyness on GF part, in fact there is just workplace abuse and refusal to hire more (or more competent) people
- Dexit is not a big deal.
- Attack removal is a sin however.
- Gen 2 good
- Gen 5 White 2 has one of the best postgame of All time.
-Even after 100 hours+ of White 2 I still hate most of Gen 5 Mon Designs so, SO much. Only a handful are decent.
- Gen 6 Starter Trio is one of the best of them all.
- Attack removal is a sin however.
- Gen 2 good
- Gen 5 White 2 has one of the best postgame of All time.
-Even after 100 hours+ of White 2 I still hate most of Gen 5 Mon Designs so, SO much. Only a handful are decent.
- Gen 6 Starter Trio is one of the best of them all.
I'm right there with you! Most of my favs were dexited in Gen 8 and it had zero impact on my decision to pick up Shield. Also I should have clarified that by 'most people' I meant 'most people who are heavily invested in this discourse' which naturally excludes the sensible people who don't get so worked up about all this haha.
How dare you. Karen’s speech is amazing and always will be.
1. In what way do you mean that? I would say in general Dexit is a big deal, especially for long time players, BUT there are certainly aspects of Dexit people had issue with that in a bigger picture isn't, as you said, a big deal.
2. While there are certainly Moves I would not have removed, there are also Moves I totally get them removing. However another aspect of this is them removing a Move due to the complexity of it but not then replacing it with a Move which fills the role most were using it for. Two examples that come to mind is Scald and Return.
Scald is a good example of how to replace a Move, Scald was too powerful with its Burn effect so instead essentially replaced it with Chilling Water that still did the main function Scald was so liked for (if not better): decreasing the Attack stat.
Return is a bad example as it was used as the go-to high powered Normal attack. They got rid of it as it was too gimmicky, dealing with a statistic which otherwise had nothing to do with battle, BUT they then never replaced it with a new high power Normal-type Move. Not all Pokemon get Slash, Body Slam or Strength, all which are generally weaker than Return. They needed something like a 100 Power, Physical Normal-type Move that most Pokemon get, and to balance it out just have it have like 5 PP; maybe as a callback to Return have it be a Move a Move Tutor will only teach to a Pokemon with high Friendship, therefore still requiring that stat being high in-game but still separate from battle mechanics.
4. White 2 specifically? What about Black 2? Though I would agree, while I feel the story of those games is a stepdown from the original BW, for the content those games offer they're one of the best in the franchise. Excited that Chuggaaconroy has started his LP of it!
5. Mind if I ask two things for this point?
One, what exactly about the designs of the Pokemon don't you like, point out a few examples if you don't mind (and why those aren't a problem on the ones you find decent)?
Two, you have not experienced this same feeling for other generations? Mind you, Gen V is the gen that had the most Pokemon introduced, Gens II through IV usually only brought in around a 100 new Pokemon, and Gens VI+ kept under 100 new species (not counting new forms). To put into perspective, if you disliked at least half of the Pokemon from Gen V and Gen VII, for Gen V that's about 75 Pokemon and for Gen VI that's about 35; this is because Gen VI only had 71 new species of Pokemon, meaning the amount of Pokemon you don't like from Gen V equals the amount of Pokemon that's been generally introduced each gen after V (and in comparison those gens are going to have a lower amount of Pokemon you don't like which could give the illusion you hate Gen V's design more when infact it's still a 50/50 split).
6. They're fine. I'll say this, while they sort of started the tradition of the Starters final form resembling a human archetype, I feel they did it the "best" with the middle evos giving a clear indication where the evolution line was going as well as the final form both fitting in with the region but also having a sort of naturalistic aspect.
"I love Dark-type Pokémon because they're so strong. Also, only selfish people think of Pokémon as strong or weak".
Karen is awful.
You're telling me the woman who wouldn't use a Sneasel until it evolved despite being a Johto Dark specialist is full of shit?
It didn't affect mine either in that I had no interest in picking up Gen 8 anyway
.Real talk though, I don't mind the absence of my favorites from a base game for one Gen if the game makes efforts to either improve or introduce equally fun Pokemon to use. Gen 9 for example finally addressed my biggest issues with things like Shroomish or early-game Electrics by having them appear as Tera Raids/Encounters in the low level dens, fixing availability and movesets (in Shroomish's case being late-Spore evolution) for the early game while cutting out too much randomization in hunting for them. I don't need the same good mons every gen, just give me something as fun to go through the game with. Also 2 Gens of absence in a row would be when they start pushing things for me, though there is a fairly small roster of mons where that is the case as of now so I'll let it pass until Gen 10.
I don't think its fair to lay this strictly on Megas. The forms were introduced in Gen 6 and clearly not regarded the way Gen 7's Dex entries would have you believe, mostly viewed as awe-inspiring transformations borne out of bonds with trainers or an Apex form in the case of Mega Rayquaza (who conveniently does NOT have an Alola Dex entry like the others hmm suspicious). This is honestly something I resent Gen 7 for, applying its already at-times-edgy Pokedex entries to an entire mechanic retroactively that directly contradicts the prior depiction, seemingly just to get some cheap "ZOMG Kids game is dark" talk out of the fanbase (that evidently worked). A particularly cynical part of me would think it was a Dex writer spiting the designer who said they had to throw Megas in at the last minute, or it feels like someone on the team saying "don't use those horrible old Megas, just stick to the new Cool Dance Power moves, the Pokemon like that better see?"
I also find the perspective on "overshadowing" in viability/popularity overblown, because most Mega receivers were either already popular designs that were never going to go away, or they were mons who, while they had favorites of course, were borderline non-existent in terms of merchandise or fan presence until a Mega brought them attention. In terms of merch a lot of mons like Mawile or Sableye didn't exactly have much presence before their Megas got them into the club, and if we're talking viability, no one in VGC or Singles gave half a hoot about Charizard until the Megas, so it was less "overshadowed" and more "worth acknowledging in the first place" under that particular criteria. So it's not like you went from "Some Mawile Merch to all Mega and no Base", the base form didn't really have much attention or discussion on it to be overshadowed in the first place without Mega Coattails to ride.
This concern would require a moderately-popular base form that was then replaced by an Uber Popular Mega, the only cases for arguing that I can picture being Kangaskhan (who by design is the least fundamentally changed look), Pinsir, maybe Altaria and the Hoenn starters.
I agree to this but only to some degree.
In the current state, yes I'd be a tiny bit annoyed if by the end of gen 9 we don't have the entire pokedex available in a Switch game.
However, with the dex continuing to expand and not looking like ending, assuming the current scenario is kept (thus without considering legendaries, only between half and 2/3rds of the available pokemon are actually available in a given gen), it may eventually come to a point where even having 700 mons per gen wouldn't cut it because 700 wouldn't even be half of the pokemon available, and certain mons may skip 2 gens in a row.
(That said you know my generic unpopular opinion about Dexit, which is, portability shouldn't have ever been a thing in first place and introducing portability in gen 4 was a shortsighted mistake)
She's a Dark-type Specialist, is it surprising she's a hypocrite?
Well obviously she likes Weavile but doesn't like Sneasel.
I mean, I don't mind if my favourite Pokemon have next to no fan presence or merchandise. Like it's not going to fill me with pride to see my special little guy finally being appreciated by the fanbase. My ability to enjoy my favourites is completely independent of anyone else's opinion on them (except when I like a design partially because it's funny how much other people hate it)
I'm not going to pretend any of this is a real problem, but my point was simply that sudden Mega-induced popularity for your favourite mon is slightly annoying if you don't really like the Mega, in the same way that it's slightly annoying when your favourite artist releases an album you don't really like that catapults them from a successful-but-under-the-radar career into mainstream popularity. There's this inextricable popular association between the thing you love and this thing you don't particularly care for.
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I think that's just kind of the thing that comes with adding onto things that already exist. Even before Megas we had this happen a lot with the traditional cross-gen evolutions.
While from a battling standpoint even back then new evolutions were an upgrade to an already existing Pokemon to make them stronger, at the same time from a design standpoint many of them were divisive among fans over the years. Like Rhyperior for instance was quite heavily divisive as a design among fans ever since it existed, being added onto the rather popular Rhyhorn line. Many people like Rhydon but a lot of people who liked Rhydon weren't so warm to Rhyperior, feeling there was a dissonance between it and Rhydon or that Rhyperior's design lost a lot of what made Rhydon's design great to them. Many of the Gen 4 ones for instance were pretty divisive among many fans, particularly the likes of Magmortar, Probopass, Lickilicky, and whatnot. I know Magmortar is kinda not very warmly received in particular.
You had some who were pretty well received from a design standpoint like Electivire and Weavile, while others...really didn't totally take off. Not because they were inherently bad per se, but because they were adding onto something that already existed and in many cases, many people liked them, so some fans were not happy with seeing a design that rubbed them the wrong way being attached as an evolved form of a Pokemon that they really liked over the years.
Even now with them doing some cross-gen evolutions every now and then in recent games (and even with regional forms) this kind of stuff happens. Kingambit for instance is a strong evolution of Bisharp and is an incredibly strong Pokemon, but I know quite a few people who have said that they weren't satisfied with how Kingambit turned out or some people who felt that it wasn't really necessary (I myself like Kingambit even if it's attached to Bisharp who has been a long time favorite of mine). I know a lot of people who were dissatisfied with Dudunsparce as an evolution to Dunsparce. Meanwhile regional forms have always been a YMMV due to being associated with mons that already exist.
There's always a bit of a your mileage may vary in that regard when you add something to a thing that already existed. On one hand these things can improve a mon that needs it from a gameplay standpoint, but from a design standpoint many people may or may not take well to seeing these additions to something that already existed that they like, especially if it rubs them the wrong way relative to the original thing.
Truth be told, the reason many people didn’t like their designs are mostly due to nostalgia bias, and the massive fanabse means an ever clashing “don’t fix what’s not broken” or “I want something new” mentalities doesn’t help their case, making the fanbase come off as ungrateful. While I can see where people are coming from with Rhyperior and Magmortar and the likes, I fail to see why some people call the likes of Dusknoir (it have faults battle-wise, even still), Kingambit and Magnezone mediocre or garbage if they don’t provide a reason other than “it’s ugly” or “boring”.
It’s not a problem exclusive to cross-gen evos, as it also happens to Baby Pokémon, Ultra Beasts, and Paradox Pokémon. Even Legendary Pokémon and Mythical Pokémon came into fire since the mid 2000s.
More or less agree. I suppose it's an unpopular opinion that I couldn't care less whether my favorite Pokemon Infernape received a Mega evolution. I think it's perfect the way it is.
The only reason I even slightly care is due to the rivalry within the fanbase with respect to Sinnoh and Hoenn's starter trios for the title of best/most popular in the franchise. Sometimes Hoenn fans will bring up their starters having Mega evolutions as a reason to rank them above Sinnoh's, which can be mildly annoying. But in a vacuum I really couldn't care less whether Sinnoh's starters have or don't have Mega evolutions. I think they're close to perfect just the way they are.
WHO DOESNT LIKE DUDUNSPARCE?! SHOW ME, THEY MUST SUFFER
Slightly tangential, but this makes me think me of the quiz in Dragon's Den.
| Question | Correct answer(s) | Wrong answer(s) |
|---|---|---|
| What are Pokémon to you? | PalC / AllyHGSS Friend | UnderlingC / JuniorHGSS |
| What helps you to win battles? | Strategy RaisingC / TrainingHGSS | Cheating |
| What kind of Trainer do you wish to battle? | AnybodyC / AnyoneHGSS | Tough personC / StrongHGSS Weak personC / WeakHGSS |
| What is most important for raising Pokémon? | Love Knowledge | Violence |
| Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. Which is more important? | Both | ToughC / StrengthHGSS WeakC / WeaknessHGSS |
Considering that the answers are pretty self-evident it's quite funny that Clair states she hasn't been confirmed; I like to imagine that she's taken the quiz every week for years and years and still hasn't grasped the correct answers because she's just that boneheaded and stubborn. We obviously don't know what answers she gave to the quiz but given the way she's characterised it seems like she'd struggle with #3 and #5 in particular: