Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records

samnsid said:
I'm a bit busy this weekend, so I only had time to test the teams of wtset and Actaeon.

While I liked wtset's team, it felt extrememly prone to being haxxed. Gastly has a variety of counters, including Paralysis and Sleep inducers who don't attack until after they've statused Gastly, or worse, status users who are faster than Gastly. Then, the status gets me I can't D-Bond or attack or anything. I think Haunter would've been better here since its defenses are so low that I doubt anything would have made a difference in it being able to die, but the 15-point speed increase could have really helped. Similarly, Huntail faces a haxxing problem, where even in the rain it couldn't OHKO many opponents (it took 2 hits to KO an Ursaring once), and without anything to counter hax, Huntail many times found itself unable to do anything to the opponent and lost adjudications to the opponent on Skill and Body, even with a Light Screen up. In other words, this has a similar anchor problem that I faced, except this time the problem is hax, which I alleviated on my Pikachu through Substitute but for me defenses were a problem. However, even then, I think this team performed the best out of all the other teams submitted, so this gets my 3 points.

Actaeon's team, as he said himself, is somewhat of a one-trick-Ponyta. If you can get behind a Sub and Belly Drum, there's very little that can stop you. If you can't… tough luck, you're probably gone. The usage of Thief on Dunsparce is very clever, as it removes threatening Chesto and Lum Berries, allowing Poliwhirl to safely come in on Yawns. Your Yawn + Sub strategy is pretty much the same idea I had, but is somewhat safer with Pikachu I think since Pikachu doesn't need an additional turn of boosting after Sub to hit hard. But you got to 62, which shows that this team, with luck, can get very far, at the cost of consistency. What perplexes me though is why Dunsparce doesn't carry Lum Berry to not get haxxed.

While I couldn't test submenceisop's team (sorry!), it seems to have problems after Silver Greta (as we all do lol). However, even through Actaeon's inconsistency, his team has the potential to reach over 60 wins, so he gets my second place.

To be perfectly honest, if I could, I would have voted for myself along with wtset, since in my experience the results of both teams were around the same. For fun, I decided to combine some ideas of the two and replace wtset's Gastly with my Dewgong for a surprisingly solid showing. In most cases, Dewgong can take out the opponent's first Pokemon either through a KO or adjudication, and can even take out the 2nd in a lot of situations. If it can't, then it can set up Perish Song and stall, then Glalie comes in and prepares for Huntail as the 2nd mon dies to Perish Song. Then, on the last mon, you can decide to either kill it with Ice Beam, or Explode and go into Huntail if it doesn't die. Glalie -> Huntail is also better setup -> kill strategy than Chimecho -> Pikachu imo, that can save more situations as Glalie can practically take one of the opponents out with Explosion and Huntail can beat nearly anything 1-on-1 as long as it doesn't get haxxed. The repeated typings isn't really a hinderance in my experience, is actually somewhat poetic lol (Ice - Water/Ice - Water).

As a final conclusion, I will say that I was under the impression that we couldn't switch moves up depending on the round. Since that is not true, simply switching Pikachu's HP Ice to HP Ghost could make Round 4 leagues easier rather than having to change to a Pika lead and risk 6 battles before Greta.

Votes: wtset - 3, Actaeon - 1
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Thanks for the thorough analysis. And the variation with Dewgong over Gastly sounds really promising, versatile and possibly hax-eliminating as well. I think Dewgong adds both versatility and variance to most teams (less likely to draw, possibilities to beat more Pokemon, but also creating actual losing scenarios)

Oh yeah, the reason for no item is, of course, that Thief won't work otherwise :)
 
Vote-
Wtset- 3 points. Light screen Huntail in rain is sick, plus love the ghastly.
Samnsid's- 1 point. Dive + Perish + Protect is cool, always wanted to use Chimecho for yawn and being a psychic with levitate. Perhaps toxic on Pikachu could help with Shedninja and Lanturn.
 
Quick update: I'll live stream some battles with my Tower team on my YouTube channel "Adedede" next sunday (13/12) at 4 P.M. (GMT+0).

It'll prolly be for the 2,6k W milestone (I'm at 2527 right now).
I'm also working on a full script about IRIDESCENCE (once again, I know), hope to upload it before the stream.

Moreover, if next Frontier challenges will be more "RNG-only" user friendly, I'll definitely jump in! (No critiques on current format intended at all, I'm really enjoying it even just as a spectator)
 
Recently Kommo-o requested me to share some ideas on mixed Entei (for a non-disclosed reason, I'm really curious).
I think we all know Entei is a very mediocre Pokemon despite its great stats. If these stats were on something physical like Ursaring, it'd be an absolute monster. It would essentially be a very buffed Tauros and we all know how scary Tauros is as it is.

1607261275050.png


Nevertheless, here are some sets I came up with, some are new, some were tested on Double Battles for a Sunny Day team, and others were once tested for the mono Fire team (the set that became definite there is not included here, as it is very team-specific). These sets are mainly for individual use without specific team support, so for example it doesn't contain a sub/CM/STAB/Hidden Power sweeper set, although that could of course be effective with the proper team surrounding it (naturally, both Raikou and Suicune do this better for various reasons but it's still a dangerous set).

What does Entei have over its other Fire-type colleagues? More Speed than Blaziken, more bulk than anything (save maybe Torkoal on specific sets), and access to Calm Mind. On the other hand, it has no STAB on its best offensive stat just like Flareon, and most importantly, no Earthquake.

Mixed bulky attacker
Entei @ White Herb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 20 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 92 SpA / 228 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Return
- Iron Tail
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ice]

This is not a good Pokemon to use by any means, and surely Typhlosion and Blaziken come to mind as replacements. Blaziken can't provide the Speed Entei does, and both other options can't provide the bulk, despite being scarier on the offensive side. This is a decent Fire-type counter and it can 1v1 an interesting scala of Pokemon, such as Flygon, Espeon and Metagross, by outspeeding and outbulking the opponent. This is more of an Arena-type Pokemon that can trade against a lot and damage the next Pokemon. White Herb can of course be replaced by something else, and Double-Edge over Return is a decent option, although the CB set does that better; this set relies on actually surviving their attack as well.

EVs: OHKOs Metagross and a bunch of other Fire-weak Pokemon without that much investment, 2HKOes many special attackers with the Attack, 2HKOes Armaldo and many other Rock-types (but not TTar, sadly), 2HKOes the 4x weak dragons with HP[ice] while living all their attacks in return.

Choice Band
Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 96 SpA / 160 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 in everything but HP and Atk
- Double-Edge
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Iron Tail
- Overheat

"STAB" Double-Edge is already a bit more threatening and HP[Fighting] OHKOes Tyranitar and 2HKOes stuff like Blissey. Iron Tail becomes a very strong move, and Overheat still OHKOes Metagross. You can put HP[Ground] or Dig or even HP[Bug/Ghost] I guess. Dig is dangerous and pathetically weak, and Entei is an EQ target.

Pressurestall + setup
Entei @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 20 HP / 4 Def / 172 SpA / 84 SpD / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Flamethrower

Probably the most promising set, capable of stalling and sweeping, so it might be on a team where it can either setup another Pokemon or sweep itself. It draws Earthquakes and Rock Slides, common moves so pick your partners with that knowledge. It needs a lot of SpA to effectively sweep against stuff like Milotic and Gyarados; with these EVs its +6 Substitute survives Starmie's and Milotic's Surf 25% of the time and you 2HKO Milotic around 90% of the time. If they're Hydro Pump, just stall it out so you can continue with a Substitute up. After one or two Calm Minds, not many special Attacks will break the sub. Perfect Leftovers number and the right Speed to outpace Gengar and Espeon.

Sunny Day support and sweep
Entei @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 92 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 156 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Sunny Day

This is a double battle set, for use in the opening alongside a Chlorophyll user or possibly even Skill Swap Gengar. It's one of the best Fire-types to use for this strategy, because it has Solarbeam and although it's weaker than Houndoom, it actually survives hits so you can have a Sunny Day opening that looks a little bit like the Rain Offense team. I tried it with Exeggutor, Sceptile and Gengar and had decent results. Houndoom's in the back as well. Sunny Day and water moves being quite 'bad' in Doubles because of the Surf split greatly help its bulk and in some cases giving it Levitate with Gengar might seal the game against clumsy Rock-type opponents.


So these were just some ideas of course, the most successful Entei experience for me is on the mono Fire team.
 
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submenceisop Very cool to see that you could apply something you learned through the NU challenge to a "real" streak :) That was actually one of my goals when creating this challenge format; to get ideas in a restricted format which can then be applied to an unrestricted format.
samnsid not sure while the AI would try to status Gastly when they have a move that can kill, never happened to me (the only "exception" being that they sometimes use Counter/Mirror Coat instead of an attacking move; if I recall correctly it's actually programmed to somewhat randomly throw in these moves to remain "unpredictable")

For my voting, I'll go through each team in the order that they were posted:

iSoNkei : A team with a clear concept behind it (trading two times and then winning with Fake Out/Protect/Dig) and I think for the most part the right choices in team-building were made to follow that concept; each of the three Pokemon is probably one of the best choices for its intended purpose. The problem though is, that the concept by itself just fails too many times in practice, since there are just too many things that can stop Meowth from winning the last 1v1, like Leftovers, Earthquake or even just the opponent not attacking on the last turn.
Suggested improvements: To keep the general strategy, but maybe slightly reduce the number of times Meowth has to win a 1v1, I would suggest to put some attacking move on Haunter to take advantage of all the things that can't hit it at all (right now you have to awkwardly hope for Confusion hax) and give Wailord some other item, so that it can take out more than one Pokemon more often if the match-up allows it.
Overall rating: 2.75/5
Favorite team-building choice: Bright Powder on Meowth

submenceisop : Very solid team, definitely was the easiest one for me to pick up, since it plays quite similar to mine. Hard-hitting moves are always fun to play in the Arena and the type synergy works out surprisingly well. It was perhaps the most consistent team for the early few rounds, but the cost of relying on the individual strength of NU Pokemon is that the performance scales kind of badly with streak length. While I could very consistently hit a certain number of wins with this team, it was almost impossible to get longer streaks going, which is why this team barely misses the second place.
Suggested improvements: Not much to say here, maybe Earthquake over Shadow Ball for Glalie could work, since in my experience it beats most Ghost types by just spamming Ice Beam.
Overall rating: 3.5/5
Favorite team-building choice: Yawn on Torkoal

Actaeon : Linear but solid, and again very easy to pick up team. I love all the little optimizations, from the EV spreads to the "filler" moves on Dunsparce and Pikachu (felt really good to kill Greta Silver Shedinja with Swagger hax once). I also think this team probably "scales" the best against stronger opponents, which is probably a side-effect of you testing mostly against them, but this comes at the cost of losing a tad more often in the early rounds (at least in my test runs). In the end, I value the performance against harder opponents a bit more, hence this team has the slight edge against submenceisops.
Suggested improvements: In my testing, I felt like I was losing more often to Thunderbolt being too weak than I actually had to use Surf (might have something to do with the kind of Pokemon Poliwhirl can or can't beat), so I suggest running a Volt Tackle set in favor of Surf. But this might also just have been a random occurrence in the low number of attempts I did with the team, you probably have more experience here to make an informed decision.
Overall rating: 3.75/5 --> 1 point
Favorite team-building choice: Rock Smash on Dunsparce

N1c69 : It's a bit difficult to rate a mono-type team in a competition where mono typing wasn't required. I still generally like the moveset and item choices you made and it's nice that you still submitted your team even though it performs strictly worse than the other team (which of course makes sense, given your extra restrictions).
Suggested improvements: Your goal probably wasn't to enter an optimized team in the first place, so I'll leave this blank.
Overall rating: 2/5
Favorite team-building choice: Amnesia on Vigoroth

samnsid : At first I had some trouble getting the team to work properly, but with the guide you provided it performs surprisingly well. My favorite part about this team is that it really tries to take advantage of the judging system in the Arena (a "bad" example of this would be my own team, which is essentially a semi-solid Tower team that tries to get everything done in less than three turns). I also like the EV spreads, altough I think that Chimecho has 50 EVs too much with the spread you posted. A small criticism I have (but this might be just due to my own experience with playing the team) is that relies on Dewgong and Chimecho living hits a bit too much (altough they are quite bulky) which gets harder and harder the further you get.
Suggested improvements: Not much to say here, since I still feel like I don't have a good enough grasp on the team. I mean I can say things like "run 0 Atk IVs on Chimecho" but that's just very small details.
Overall rating: 4/5 --> 3 points
Favorite team-building choice: Rest on Chimecho
 
Oh you are right on the EVs lol, I never realized that for some reason. I would reduce the HP EVs, it's a 7 point difference, but a combination of reducing the defs and HP could be done too (might be better optimized). Given the already weak powers of the Pokemon though, I don't think it should matter much in the long run. My bad though, I should have checked better, sorry! And yes Chimecho should have 0 Atk IVs, I just forgot to do that and was too lazy to change it later lol

I do remember getting paralyzed as Gastly turn one once, and then I lost the judging because of Skill I think? Strange that it never happened to you…
 
Actaeon said:
Recently Kommo-o requested me to share some ideas on mixed Entei (for a non-disclosed reason, I'm really curious).
I think we all know Entei is a very mediocre Pokemon despite its great stats. If these stats were on something physical like Ursaring, it'd be an absolute monster. It would essentially be a very buffed Tauros and we all know how scary Tauros is as it is.

View attachment 297390

Nevertheless, here are some sets I came up with, some are new, some were tested on Double Battles for a Sunny Day team, and others were once tested for the mono Fire team (the set that became definite there is not included here, as it is very team-specific). These sets are mainly for individual use without specific team support, so for example it doesn't contain a sub/CM/STAB/Hidden Power sweeper set, although that could of course be effective with the proper team surrounding it (naturally, both Raikou and Suicune do this better for various reasons but it's still a dangerous set).

What does Entei have over its other Fire-type colleagues? More Speed than Blaziken, more bulk than anything (save maybe Torkoal on specific sets), and access to Calm Mind. On the other hand, it has no STAB on its best offensive stat just like Flareon, and most importantly, no Earthquake.

Mixed bulky attacker
Entei @ White Herb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 20 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 92 SpA / 228 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Return
- Iron Tail
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ice]

This is not a good Pokemon to use by any means, and surely Typhlosion and Blaziken come to mind as replacements. Blaziken can't provide the Speed Entei does, and both other options can't provide the bulk, despite being scarier on the offensive side. This is a decent Fire-type counter and it can 1v1 an interesting scala of Pokemon, such as Flygon, Espeon and Metagross, by outspeeding and outbulking the opponent. This is more of an Arena-type Pokemon that can trade against a lot and damage the next Pokemon. White Herb can of course be replaced by something else, and Double-Edge over Return is a decent option, although the CB set does that better; this set relies on actually surviving their attack as well.

EVs: OHKOs Metagross and a bunch of other Fire-weak Pokemon without that much investment, 2HKOes many special attackers with the Attack, 2HKOes Armaldo and many other Rock-types (but not TTar, sadly), 2HKOes the 4x weak dragons with HP[ice] while living all their attacks in return.

Choice Band
Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 96 SpA / 160 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 in everything but HP and Atk
- Double-Edge
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Iron Tail
- Overheat

"STAB" Double-Edge is already a bit more threatening and HP[Fighting] OHKOes Tyranitar and 2HKOes stuff like Blissey. Iron Tail becomes a very strong move, and Overheat still OHKOes Metagross. You can put HP[Ground] or Dig or even HP[Bug/Ghost] I guess. Dig is dangerous and pathetically weak, and Entei is an EQ target.

Pressurestall + setup
Entei @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 20 HP / 4 Def / 172 SpA / 84 SpD / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Flamethrower

Probably the most promising set, capable of stalling and sweeping, so it might be on a team where it can either setup another Pokemon or sweep itself. It draws Earthquakes and Rock Slides, common moves so pick your partners with that knowledge. It needs a lot of SpA to effectively sweep against stuff like Milotic and Gyarados; with these EVs its +6 Substitute survives Starmie's and Milotic's Surf 25% of the time and you 2HKO Milotic around 90% of the time. If they're Hydro Pump, just stall it out so you can continue with a Substitute up. After one or two Calm Minds, not many special Attacks will break the sub. Perfect Leftovers number and the right Speed to outpace Gengar and Espeon.

Sunny Day support and sweep
Entei @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 92 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 156 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Sunny Day

This is a double battle set, for use in the opening alongside a Chlorophyll user or possibly even Skill Swap Gengar. It's one of the best Fire-types to use for this strategy, because it has Solarbeam and although it's weaker than Houndoom, it actually survives hits so you can have a Sunny Day opening that looks a little bit like the Rain Offense team. I tried it with Exeggutor, Sceptile and Gengar and had decent results. Houndoom's in the back as well. Sunny Day and water moves being quite 'bad' in Doubles because of the Surf split greatly help its bulk and in some cases giving it Levitate with Gengar might seal the game against clumsy Rock-type opponents.


So these were just some ideas of course, the most successful Entei experience for me is on the mono Fire team.
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Yep, I believe that the last two are the Entei sets with most potential of them all. It's kind of unfortunate how Entei was basically given the worst possible movepool to take advantage of its best stat. Pressure stall seems to be the one that can be most successful in Singles and Sunny Day can definitely work out in Doubles with Fake Out Support. Thanks for theorymonning it!
 
wtset said:
Actaeon : Linear but solid, and again very easy to pick up team. I love all the little optimizations, from the EV spreads to the "filler" moves on Dunsparce and Pikachu (felt really good to kill Greta Silver Shedinja with Swagger hax once). I also think this team probably "scales" the best against stronger opponents, which is probably a side-effect of you testing mostly against them, but this comes at the cost of losing a tad more often in the early rounds (at least in my test runs). In the end, I value the performance against harder opponents a bit more, hence this team has the slight edge against submenceisops.
Suggested improvements: In my testing, I felt like I was losing more often to Thunderbolt being too weak than I actually had to use Surf (might have something to do with the kind of Pokemon Poliwhirl can or can't beat), so I suggest running a Volt Tackle set in favor of Surf. But this might also just have been a random occurrence in the low number of attempts I did with the team, you probably have more experience here to make an informed decision.
Overall rating: 3.75/5 --> 1 point
Favorite team-building choice: Rock Smash on Dunsparce
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Figured I'd let you know wtset but Volt Tackle is not a legal move for Box Pikachu which is the one that learns Surf. He's stuck with Thunderbolt no matter what unless you prefer to take chances with Thunder's 70% accuracy.
 
Kommo-o said:
Figured I'd let you know wtset but Volt Tackle is not a legal move for Box Pikachu which is the one that learns Surf. He's stuck with Thunderbolt no matter what unless you prefer to take chances with Thunder's 70% accuracy.
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What wtset meant was dropping Surf and using Volt Tackle + something else instead, "…so I suggest running a Volt Tacke Set in favor of Surf".
 
Kommo-o said:
Oh my bad, misread the sentence lol
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Yeah Surf is really to get the KO on low-IV Claydols after +6 hidden power. I guess Volt Tackle has the potential to win against way more opponents indeed, so I agree with wtset: ditch Surf and keep Volt Tackle for this Pikachu. And hope you'll beat Shedinjas with Swagger haha.
 
Actaeon said:
Yeah Surf is really to get the KO on low-IV Claydols after +6 hidden power. I guess Volt Tackle has the potential to win against way more opponents indeed, so I agree with wtset: ditch Surf and keep Volt Tackle for this Pikachu. And hope you'll beat Shedinjas with Swagger haha.
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I guess Volt Tackle can definitely bring that extra power although you lose on coverage and HP Ice is only good for stuff x4 weak to. What would be the other filler move? Substitute to block status? Toxic to at least hit walls that Pikachu can't touch?
 
Kommo-o said:
I guess Volt Tackle can definitely bring that extra power although you lose on coverage and HP Ice is only good for stuff x4 weak to. What would be the other filler move? Substitute to block status? Toxic to at least hit walls that Pikachu can't touch?
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Sub won't work since I think we have the implicit restriction that only one Pokemon can have Substitute (with limited tutor and all that), and Poliwhirl carries sub. Toxic could be useful to take out Shedinja, T-Wave could also work to just cheese through on luck with Swagger against bulky Grasses lol, and Protect is always an option. At the end of the day though, Pikachu is a very risky Pokemon that just doesn't function without proper support (ie able to set Sub up), and is really just a filler on Actaeon's team in hopes of good matchups to win in a pinch due to the dearth of good anchors in NU. Pikachu is the epitome of "it can win but it needs to be lucky" for it can 2HKO the vast majority of things in the game, even at higher tiers, but it gets OHKO'd right back in return. There isn't really much that can be done to optimize it because both T-Bolt + Surf and Volt Tackle have glaring issues.
 
Alright, I originally wanted to do some concluding post for the challenge, presenting all the results in a nice long post. But since I won it myself, it feels a bit awkward to do, so let's just get into the next challenge:

234.gif
Gen III Frontier Challenge #2: Christmas Edition
225.gif

With Christmas approaching, and Santa Claus apparently being a canon character in the Pokemon universe, I've decided that the next challenge is going to be Christmas themed: Santa Claus takes on the Battle Tower. Canonically, Santa Claus uses a list of five Pokemon: Delibird, Lapras, Jynx, Stantler and Ponyta.
So the challenge goes as follows:
Build a team for the Battle Tower consisting of Stantler plus either

Delibird and one Pokemon of your choice.
or
Two Pokemon appearing in the first anime episode including Santa Claus, or their respective evolutions
​
Deadline is 11 days from now, the 18th of December, 11:45 PM GMT.
EDIT: Rules changed to make the challenge a bit less frustrating.
 
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Ironmage said:
Just had my first attempt against Gold symbol Tucker (I've been using a variant of the speedrun team with substituitions for my and my sister's favourites: Gardevoir/Aggron/Swampert), and lost to a crit. Ouch.
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Big oof, but if you only lost to a crit you should be able to get it next time :D (hopefully lol)
 
wtset said:
Alright, I originally wanted to do some concluding post for the challenge, presenting all the results in a nice long post. But since I won it myself, it feels a bit awkward to do, so let's just get into the next challenge:

234.gif
Gen III Frontier Challenge #2: Christmas Edition
225.gif

With Christmas approaching, and Santa Claus apparently being a canon character in the Pokemon universe, I've decided that the next challenge is going to be Christmas themed: Santa Claus takes on the Battle Tower. Canonically, Santa Claus uses a list of five Pokemon: Delibird, Lapras, Delibird, Stantler and Ponyta. Now I feel like only two out of these five Pokemon are truly Christmas-themed: Stantler and Delibird, so these two are mandatory to use. However, to make Santa's life a bit easier, he decides to catch a third Pokemon to assist him in bringing the gift of christmas to the Battle Tower. So the challenge goes as follows:
Build a team for the Battle Tower consisting of Stantler, Delibird and one Pokemon of your choice.
​
Deadline is 11 days from now, the 18th of December, 11:45 PM GMT.
Click to expand...

Don't want to be that guy who wants to ruin the party but as someone who ribboned a fucking Sunflora who even had flawless stats, it was extremely painful for me to get the battle ribbons on a Pokemon that was already deadweight and had poor synergy with some Pokemon I was already using (My party was Latios and Metagross btw). I think the restriction in my personal opinion is too overwhelming considering that if I already had to struggle to get a ribbon for a Sunflora (mind you, it had flawless IVs and was EV trained), I can imagine how bad it will be to even reach Anabel Gold with two Pokemon that already have a bad matchup against her party and with the batshit crazy amount of hax that occurs in Gen 3 overall, I think it will be extremely easy for people to get frustrated with this challenge and the fun will be lost.

Maybe you could lighten the restriction and make it only obligatory to either use only one of Stantler or Delibird? Or maybe make the 2nd Pokemon being any Ice type? Let's be honest. Stantler can actually have some use and make something because it has a movepool, but Delibird? lol. Delibird is probably even worse than Sunflora, or close to it and it's a significant dead-weight you are carrying away.
 
Kommo-o said:
Don't want to be that guy who wants to ruin the party but as someone who ribboned a fucking Sunflora who even had flawless stats, it was extremely painful for me to get the battle ribbons on a Pokemon that was already deadweight and had poor synergy with some Pokemon I was already using (My party was Latios and Metagross btw). I think the restriction in my personal opinion is too overwhelming considering that if I already had to struggle to get a ribbon for a Sunflora (mind you, it had flawless IVs and was EV trained), I can imagine how bad it will be to even reach Anabel Gold with two Pokemon that already have a bad matchup against her party and with the batshit crazy amount of hax that occurs in Gen overall, I think it will be extremely easy for people to get frustrated with this challenge and the fun will be lost.

Maybe you could lighten the restriction and make it only obligatory to either use only one of Stantler or Delibird? Or maybe make the 2nd Pokemon being any Ice type? Let's be honest. Stantler can actually have some use and make something because it has a movepool, but Delibird? lol. Delibird is probably even worse than Sunflora, or close to it and it's a significant dead-weight you are carrying away.
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I second this, we were discussing this in the Discord and came up with the Ice-type idea together. Ice types in general fit a Christmas/Winter theme and nearly anything is better than Delbird.
 
Alright, I see the challenge might be a little too hard/frustrating the way it is now. On the other hand, I still want to keep it fair if someone actually already started putting together a team with Delibird included.
So how about this:

Stantler is mandatory, and then you can decide to either use

Delibird + one Pokemon free of choice from all of Gen 3
or
two Pokemon of your choice that appear in the anime episode with Santa Claus (or their respective evolutions)
 
I think the challenge is fun as is, already starting testing. Maybe it's a good idea to submit the teams to wtset in private, so he can make a long post when the streak ends and then voting can begin?
 
Actaeon said:
I think the challenge is fun as is, already starting testing. Maybe it's a good idea to submit the teams to wtset in private, so he can make a long post when the streak ends and then voting can begin?
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I guess that works, but then I probably shouldn't be allowed to participate myself for this challenge since I'm the only one who gets to see all the other teams beforehand (which I'm fine with since I'm not sure I have the time to do so anyway).
 
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