Lower Tiers Doubles OU Viability Rankings

[kamikaze]

Welcome to the DOU Viability Ranking project, where we rank the viability of Pokemon in DOU. This thread will proceed a little differently from the last one: the floor will always be open to discussion, and after a period of time (probably every 2 weeks), the viability rankings council will vote on any of the Pokemon being discussed and post the results and reasoning here. The rankings and tier descriptions have been assigned to better each Pokemon's state within the metagame.
​

>>VR Council<<

These users have the ultimate say on shifts in Viability rankings tiers. The council consists of experienced players who have different styles and perspectives to offer to the table when deciding the strength of any individual pokemon.

Dawgie

kamikaze

Memoric

SamVGC

shaian

>>Tier 1<<

Pokemon that have a good matchup vs a large portion of the metagame, are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.

Aegislash

Amoonguss

Azumarill

Mega Charizard Y

Mega Diancie

Mega Gardevoir

Heatran

Jirachi

Mega Kangaskhan

Landorus-T

Thundurus-I

Volcanion

>>Tier 1.5<<

Pokemon that are generally strong, but can be dead weight in some matchups, don't have great matchups vs a lot of Tier 1, or are only particularly useful for checking a certain team style.

Hoopa-U

Hydreigon

Keldeo

Kyurem-B

Latios

Rotom-W

Talonflame

>>Tier 2<<

Pokemon which have broad applications on a variety of teams but are simply less effective than the Pokemon in the higher tiers. This also includes Pokemon which, while good, only fit on a specific team style or require heavy support but are still stronger than Pokemon in the tiers below.

Bisharp

Cresselia

Deoxys-A

Ferrothorn

Gengar

Mega Gengar

Gyarados

Kingdra

Landorus-I

Politoed

Porygon2

Rotom-H

Salamence

Scrafty

Sylveon

Terrakion

Mega Venusaur

Volcarona

>>Tier 3<<

Pokemon that can only serve a specific role not needed by most teams, but can still perform excellently.

Blaziken

Breloom

Mega Charizard X

Conkeldurr

Diancie

Gastrodon

Genesect

Infernape

Jellicent

Ludicolo

Mega Metagross

Mew

Rhyperior

Suicune

Weavile

Zapdos

>>Tier 4<<

Pokemon whose roles are almost never needed, and in most cases weigh the team down due to their use. Pokemon in this tier are far more situational and costly than those in higher tiers.

Mega Abomasnow

Mega Aerodactyl

Bronzong

Mega Camerupt

Clefairy

Darkrai

Entei

Gothitelle

Gourgeist-Super

Greninja

Hariyama

Hitmontop

Manaphy

Mega Mawile

Milotic

Raichu

Raikou

Reuniclus

Rhydon

Sableye

Serperior

Swampert

Mega Swampert

Togekiss

Tyranitar

Venusaur

Victini

Virizion

Whimsicott

 

[Stratos]

Arctic says: I merged this thread so kami had the OP instead of Stratos and I was gonna delete this but didn't want to make him lose the likes

 

[Yellow Paint]

Could clefairy not be tier 2, since friend guard is its only niche, and it competes with all the other redirectors? It just seems kinda ridiculous for it to be placed higher than say, zapdos.

On that note, zapdos could probably be in tier 2 since it has twind and bulk over thundy. It might be outclassed otherwise, but it's nowhere near "the edge of viability".

edit: why include nonmega diancie? it's probably one of the most niche tr setters out there.

 

[shaian]

why tyrantar is more tyranitar -
1 : is so good and sandy
2 : good for sanding
3 : an excadrill can make it a speed
4 : green is colour of MONEY, terakion doesnt exist in currency
5 : you can throw it out, sand and make battle sauid arab
6 : is MORE tyrantar than terakion
7 : is good for smothie stone
8 : child friendly
9 : looks like dinosaurus ; not lame, dinosaurus are dominant and serperior "terakion are not dinosaurus and they stupid" - jay c.
10 : terkaion is rocks type. Tyrantar is rocks too but tyrantar is not a fucker

tyrantar for tier 1

 

[BLINGAS]

"I dislike this pokemon so it is bad" - this tier list.

 

[Aasgier]

April Fools Day is more than two weeks ago.

 

[Arcticblast]

"I dislike this pokemon so it is bad" - this tier list.

Stratos and I aren't perfect, give us a hand will ya

 

[Darkmalice]

This took me suprisingly long to get my head around. It helped once I thought of it like the old rankings, and then thought how they're different.

See below - changed the titles to include it. I also included next to Pokemon what these Pokemon ranks previously were.

Hide

>>Tier 1<< - like the new A/A+ rank
Pokemon that have a good matchup vs a large portion of the metagame, are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.
Aegislash - A+
Amoonguss - A
Mega Charizard Y - A+
Cresselia - A+
Mega Diancie - A+
Mega Kangaskhan - S
Keldeo - A
Landorus-T - S
Rotom-W - A+
Shaymin-Sky - A

>>Tier 1.5<< - like the new A- rank
Pokemon that are generally strong, but can be dead weight in some matchups, don't have great matchups vs a lot of Tier 1, or are only particularly useful for checking a certain team style.
Bisharp - A+
Heatran - A+
Hydreigon - A
Jirachi - A-
Kyurem-B - A
Latios - A
Mega Metagross - A+
Talonflame - A
Terrakion - A+
Thundurus-I - A+

>>Tier 2<< - like the new B+/B/B- rank
Pokemon which, while good, only fit on a specific team style or require heavy support.
Mega Abomasnow - B
Azumarill - A-
Mega Camerupt - B
Deoxys-A - B
Mega Gengar - A
Ludicolo - A-
Mew - B+
Politoed - A
Suicune - A
Venusaur - A-

Pokemon who can hold their own in the metagame and fit well on certain teams due to their unique matchups, but are not broadly usable for one reason or another.​

Blaziken - C
Breloom - A-
Clefable - C
Clefairy - C
Darkrai - B+
Diancie -
Ferrothorn - A-
Gengar
Gyarados - A-
Landorus-I - B
Mamoswine - B
Mega Manectric - B
Raikou - B
Rotom-H - B+
Scrafty - B+
Sylveon - A-
Togekiss - A+
Mega Venusaur - B
Victini - C+
Volcarona - B+
Weavile - B

>>Tier 3<< - rank

Pokemon which are on the edge of viability. Here either through good matchups with a few specific top threats (such as Infernape vs Aegislash, Amoonguss, and Kangaskhan or Milotic vs Landorus-T), or because they fulfill a valuable niche on a certain type of team (such as Kingdra on Rain or Rhyperior on Tailwind). Just because a Pokemon worked on a single team does not mean it belongs here.
​

Garchomp - A-
Mega Gardevoir - B+
Genesect - B+
Gothitelle - B
Greninja - C
Infernape - B-
Jellicent - B
Kingdra - B
Mega Lopunny - B-
Mega Lucario - B
Milotic - B-
Reuniclus - C
Rhydon - C+
Rhyperior - C+
Sableye - B-
Salamence - B-
Mega Swampert - B+
Thundurus-T - B
Zapdos - B+

>>Tier Please Don't<<

These Pokemon are not effective in the current metagame. If you discuss them, you will be publicly shamed, so Please Don't.​

Hitmontop - B+
Scizor - B+
Tyranitar
Basically everything else

And a ton of stuff off the list

Generally the lower you go down, the worse the ranks are. Trying to apply the old ranks to this is partly inaccurate though. The descriptions are key here. For example, tier 2 is split up based on how the Pokemon is used, such as Mega Camerupt being in the top half as it's exclusively used in TR, where as Gyarados can be used on a varieyt of teams but not every team. Similarly, from the description you can see why Heatran is in 1.5 instead of 1; it's deadweight against rain teams and bad against other team matchups.

It's also very reflective of the metagame and more excluding of Pokemon, for example Ttar fits terribly well in the metagame so it's in the tier please don't area.

Once I think of it like that, it's easier to work out where Pokemon off the list would go. For example in tier 2, I would add Conkeldurr to the 2nd description it fits that description very well, and probably Escavalier too. I would argue from Diancie should move from the 2nd description to the 1st description of tier 2, because it fits well in one type of team and only one type of team (full TR).

I'm unsure how harsh we're being with tier 3. A lot of Pokemon are viable and have niches, but some of them only find themselves on teams that would be better if the team had changed in a way so that the Pokemon wouldn't be on the team, such as Hariyama on a TR team for more offensive power over Scrafty and not in need of Intimidate, a team would probably be better changing itself to not prefer Hariyama over say Scrafty.

 

[Stratos]

This took me suprisingly long to get my head around. It helped once I thought of it like the old rankings, and then thought how they're different.

See below - changed the titles to include it. I also included next to Pokemon what these Pokemon ranks previously were.

Hide

>>Tier 1<< - like the new A/A+ rank
Pokemon that have a good matchup vs a large portion of the metagame, are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.
Aegislash - A+
Amoonguss - A
Mega Charizard Y - A+
Cresselia - A+
Mega Diancie - A+
Mega Kangaskhan - S
Keldeo - A
Landorus-T - S
Rotom-W - A+
Shaymin-Sky - A

>>Tier 1.5<< - like the new A- rank
Pokemon that are generally strong, but can be dead weight in some matchups, don't have great matchups vs a lot of Tier 1, or are only particularly useful for checking a certain team style.
Bisharp - A+
Heatran - A+
Hydreigon - A
Jirachi - A-
Kyurem-B - A
Latios - A
Mega Metagross - A+
Talonflame - A
Terrakion - A+
Thundurus-I - A+

>>Tier 2<< - like the new B+/B/B- rank
Pokemon which, while good, only fit on a specific team style or require heavy support.
Mega Abomasnow - B
Azumarill - A-
Mega Camerupt - B
Deoxys-A - B
Mega Gengar - A
Ludicolo - A-
Mew - B+
Politoed - A
Suicune - A
Venusaur - A-

Pokemon who can hold their own in the metagame and fit well on certain teams due to their unique matchups, but are not broadly usable for one reason or another.​

Blaziken - C
Breloom - A-
Clefable - C
Clefairy - C
Darkrai - B+
Diancie -
Ferrothorn - A-
Gengar
Gyarados - A-
Landorus-I - B
Mamoswine - B
Mega Manectric - B
Raikou - B
Rotom-H - B+
Scrafty - B+
Sylveon - A-
Togekiss - A+
Mega Venusaur - B
Victini - C+
Volcarona - B+
Weavile - B

>>Tier 3<< - rank

Pokemon which are on the edge of viability. Here either through good matchups with a few specific top threats (such as Infernape vs Aegislash, Amoonguss, and Kangaskhan or Milotic vs Landorus-T), or because they fulfill a valuable niche on a certain type of team (such as Kingdra on Rain or Rhyperior on Tailwind). Just because a Pokemon worked on a single team does not mean it belongs here.
​

Garchomp - A-
Mega Gardevoir - B+
Genesect - B+
Gothitelle - B
Greninja - C
Infernape - B-
Jellicent - B
Kingdra - B
Mega Lopunny - B-
Mega Lucario - B
Milotic - B-
Reuniclus - C
Rhydon - C+
Rhyperior - C+
Sableye - B-
Salamence - B-
Mega Swampert - B+
Thundurus-T - B
Zapdos - B+

>>Tier Please Don't<<

These Pokemon are not effective in the current metagame. If you discuss them, you will be publicly shamed, so Please Don't.​

Hitmontop - B+
Scizor - B+
Tyranitar

And a ton of stuff off the list

Generally the lower you go down, the worse the ranks are. Trying to apply the old ranks to this is partly inaccurate though. The descriptions are key here. For example, tier 2 is split up based on how the Pokemon is used, such as Mega Camerupt being in the top half as it's exclusively used in TR, where as Gyarados can be used on a varieyt of teams but not every team. Similarly, from the description you can see why Heatran is in 1.5 instead of 1; it's deadweight against rain teams and bad against other team matchups.

It's also very reflective of the metagame and more excluding of Pokemon, for example Ttar fits terribly well in the metagame so it's in the tier please don't area.

Once I think of it like that, it's easier to work out where Pokemon off the list would go. For example in tier 2, I would add Conkeldurr to the 2nd description it fits that description very well, and probably Escavalier too. I would argue from Diancie should move from the 2nd description to the 1st description of tier 2, because it fits well in one type of team and only one type of team (full TR).

I'm unsure how harsh we're being with tier 3. A lot of Pokemon are viable and have niches, but some of them only find themselves on teams that would be better if the team had changed in a way so that the Pokemon wouldn't be on the team, such as Hariyama on a TR team for more offensive power over Scrafty and not in need of Intimidate, a team would probably be better changing itself to not prefer Hariyama over say Scrafty.

Thanks for this, I hope it can be helpful to some people. As I said on PS last night, the reason I switched from letters to numbers is because with letters, you have the limitation that every pokemon must fall on a scale from A to F, which ends up with all of the viable pokemon basically getting put in B or higher. This way allows us to be much more expressive with our tier list because there's no floor—there could be 10 or 20 "tiers" and we're only listing the first four, which all (i think) have pretty clear divisions between them. In practice, nothing on this tier list deserved to be below B on the old tier list, and pokemon below B (and half of the ones in it) were never worth ranking.

Escavalier: I've always found that it didn't have enough relevant resists to get away with being slow as shit; u basically can never switch it in to take any but the weakest hit because if u do then it's more or less going to be dead weight the rest of the match. If anything, it'd be C, because the only reason to use it is its peculiarly good matchup vs Amoonguss and Trick Room, it's got a pretty bad matchup vs almost everything else.

Diancie: The reason I put this where I did is because both Arcticblast and Laga in the past made successful semi-TR teams with Diancie as the setter. However, looking at its matchups vs the top tiers, I can definitely see an argument for dropping it to 3, though it doesnt fit either description particularly well.

Clefairy: I put it tier 2 because it's more or less interchangeable with Clefable but this is another thing I could definitely see dropping.

In general, if you want a Pokemon to move up, nothing is better than replays and importables. This tier list is basically entirely experiential; if we see a Pokemon working, working on multiple teams, and working in multiple matchups, it's almost certainly going to get moved up.

edit : arctic changed the description of please don't. mine was much less rude :/

Arctic edit: no less rude than your treatment of Hitmontop

 

[Laga]

>>Tier Please Don't<<
Hitmontop

I mean we can obviously agree that tops isn't what he used to be, but this ranking cannot be the result of anything but a shitload of weed... Hitmontop will always be almost exactly as viable as Scrafty, since they perform a similar job with different pools. Wide Guard is amazing, Knock Off is amazing, fighting resist is amazing, psychic immunity is amazing.

There is no way that you can justify putting scrafty in a middle rank whilst putting tops in a rank that signals zero viability :{|}

 

[Victorious B.I.G.]

"I dislike this pokemon so it is bad" - this tier list.

"I play this tier more than once a year" - this poster

 

[Stratos]

>>Tier Please Don't<<
Hitmontop

I mean we can obviously agree that tops isn't what he used to be, but this ranking cannot be the result of anything but a shitload of weed... Hitmontop will always be almost exactly as viable as Scrafty, since they perform a similar job with different pools. Wide Guard is amazing, Knock Off is amazing, fighting resist is amazing, psychic immunity is amazing.

There is no way that you can justify putting scrafty in a middle rank whilst putting tops in a rank that signals zero viability :{|}

look at its matchups vs tier 1:

Amoonguss - lol
Aegislash - lol
Zard Y - unless you're Stone Edge, lol
Cress - lol
MDiancie - lol
MKang - 2hkoed by -1 return so can't switch in entirely safely, in order to avoid the ohko from +0 return 100% of the time it has to invest enough in defense that it can't ohko with CC 2/3 of the time
Keldeo - hpump for cc is a roughly even trade i guess, obviously not a switchin though
Landorus-T - you can switch in on it and fake it out for a partner to do something but can't actually touch it, also hitmontop is a free switch-in for lando-t
Rotom-w - burns you
Skymin - lol

Pokemon in Tier 1 where Scrafty's matchup is notably better: Amoonguss, Aegislash, Cress, Landorus-T
Pokemon in Tier 1 where Hitmontop's matchup is notably better: None really, keldeo i guess?? but its still in keldeo's favor. u could make a case for kang? but not a super good one

There's really no doubt in my mind that Scrafty is more viable than Top in a metagame where half or more of the best Pokemon are Fighting resists. Just because theyre both bulky fighting types with intimidate doesn't mean they're equally viable omg

 

[Bughouse]

There's no "I" in "I hate this Pokemon."

These initial rankings were looked at by a handful of people and there were minimal disagreements.

 

[BLINGAS]

"I play this tier more than once a year" - this poster

who are you? I'm sorry that the rankings are biased towards what the makers like and don't like rather than if something's usable or not.

 

[Stratos]

who are you? I'm sorry that the rankings are biased towards what the makers like and don't like rather than if something's usable or not.

thats why u nominate things for being moved, and if u cant convince 3/5 of myself finally laga totem and arcticblast that something should be moved then its probably not good enough to be moved. This isnt my personal dictatorial project, i was just the person who made (most of) the original list because nobody else had the motivation to do it.

edit: in case it wasn't clear, just because i responded to something doesn't mean it won't be brought up for a vote. The point is to bring up both sides of the argument so that an actual discussion will get going. Basically everything that's been mentioned so far will be voted on

 

[qsns]

you forgot mega mawile :3

 

[Stratos]

nah

 

[Haunted Diamond]

Mega Diancie really needs to move down. Let's see how it fares against the tier 1 pokemon...
Aegislash = rather bad match up
Amoonguss = very bad match up
Mega Charizard Y = decent match up, but has to protect on turn 1 of mega evolving to not die to solarbeam, plus it's bait for common zard y partners like venusaur and lando-t
Cresselia = bad match up, another set up bait for the godly cm cress
Mega Kangaskhan = rather good match up, but still loses to seismic toss khan
Keldeo = good match up, has to protect to mega evolve on turn 1 though.
Landorus-T = bad match up
Rotom-W = bad match up
Shaymin-Sky = very bad match up

 

[Stratos]

Mega Diancie really needs to move down. Let's see how it fares against the tier 1 pokemon...
Aegislash = rather bad match up
Amoonguss = very bad match up
Mega Charizard Y = decent match up, but has to protect on turn 1 of mega evolving to not die to solarbeam, plus it's bait for common zard y partners like venusaur and lando-t
Cresselia = bad match up, another set up bait for the godly cm cress
Mega Kangaskhan = rather good match up, but still loses to seismic toss khan
Keldeo = good match up, has to protect to mega evolve on turn 1 though.
Landorus-T = bad match up
Rotom-W = bad match up
Shaymin-Sky = very bad match up

Not that simple, though. Look at Tier 1.5—Diancie outright beats every single pokemon in that list except for Jirachi and Gross (and Steel Wing talon ._.). Diancie is singlehandedly responsible for loss of viability of a lot of Pokemon like Gyarados and Togekiss; remember how extra super good Flying-type was in XY? Diancie totally reshaped the meta around itself. I'd argue that not a small part of the reason Rotom-W, Landorus-T, Aegislash, and Amoonguss are so great in the metagame right now is that they are some of the best Diancie checks you can find. And despite the average team composition drastically shifting basically to counter Diancie, it still manages to put in hella work in most games.

 

[Darkmalice]

look at its matchups vs tier 1:

Amoonguss - lol
Aegislash - lol
Zard Y - unless you're Stone Edge, lol
Cress - lol
MDiancie - lol
MKang - 2hkoed by -1 return so can't switch in entirely safely, in order to avoid the ohko from +0 return 100% of the time it has to invest enough in defense that it can't ohko with CC 2/3 of the time
Keldeo - hpump for cc is a roughly even trade i guess, obviously not a switchin though
Landorus-T - you can switch in on it and fake it out for a partner to do something but can't actually touch it, also hitmontop is a free switch-in for lando-t
Rotom-w - burns you
Skymin - lol

Pokemon in Tier 1 where Scrafty's matchup is notably better: Amoonguss, Aegislash, Cress, Landorus-T
Pokemon in Tier 1 where Hitmontop's matchup is notably better: None really, keldeo i guess?? but its still in keldeo's favor. u could make a case for kang? but not a super good one

There's really no doubt in my mind that Scrafty is more viable than Top in a metagame where half or more of the best Pokemon are Fighting resists. Just because theyre both bulky fighting types with intimidate doesn't mean they're equally viable omg

I would say Hitmontop is tier 3, not unviable.

It's not a matter of its match-ups against the tier 1 Pokemon - I agree Hitmontop is terrible in many 1v1 matchups, but that's missing the point as to why we use it.

We use it for the support it provides to its ally. Obviously Fake Out + Intimidate, but also whatever moves it chooses to use. Scrafty does not provide this level of support e.g. no Wide Guard, Feint or Helping Hand. I would say that its support falls under "a valuable niche on a certain type of team" as in description 3.

 

[Laga]

yeah I'd say we should shelve the old thread's mindset of comparing mons to the top tier pokemon

Theorymonning a pokemon's viability in a Doubles format using 1v1 situations is straight up illogical, and since we are changing the format of viability rankings, I think we should ditch the whole matchup idea, and think more about damage output, typing synergies it has the potential for, and utility from now on. These are traits that also are very clear in replays, at least much more so than matchups against all the individual mons of the other team.

Basically, the utility of Intimidate + Fake Out + Wide Guard outweighs its poor 1v1 matchups against all the top ranked mons enough to warrant a ranking that isn't reserved for mons that people laugh at.

 

[Stratos]

ok time to make my own omnomnomination

Hydreigon to Tier 1

yea its speed tier is unfortunate and gives it struggles with the fighting types and fairies, and it gets revenged by landog, but it is second to none at dismantling bulky teams and things slower than it in general and that has to count for something. Fire/Grass/Water/Elec/Ground are spectacular resists and yes i know that latios's resists are even better and its faster but what makes hydreigon so special is that absolutely nothing can switch in on it (well, the fairies can, but they're pretty frail so theyre a lot more easily deterred by partners than the steels). Draco Meteor and either Dark Pulse or Earth Power is all you need to consistently put huge dents in things every time you attack, as opposed to latios who is walled by steels unless it runs 3 move coverage and even then hidden power fire/ground isnt koing shit. Having that free third moveslot means you can run important things like Roost and Tailwind, both of which seriously up the value of this Pokemon. Importantly, Hydreigon is probably like the best Aegislash check in the metagame (Bisharp is better as an Aegislash check but worse otherwise since its frail). Hyd has good matchups vs Aeg/Zard/Cress/Rotom/Skymin/Bisharp/Tran/Rachi/Cube/Thund and it's definitely impossible to find something else with such a good matchup spread vs the Steels, Fires, Waters, and Grasses all at once, which basically counts for 90% of any given bulky team (and it can OHKO landorus-t with draco on a predicted switch-in so there's the other 10%). Hydreigon is guaranteed to do something in any given match, and makes the defense and sun matchups much easier (former if roost, latter if tailwind), so it belongs in Tier 1.

 

[Qazoo306]

A set you never mentioned that I like was choice scarf. It outepeeds Landorous-T and makes a surprisingly good revenge killer because Draco Meteor is a complete nuke. It has very good 4 move coverage between its STABs, earth power and fire blast. It finds ample times to switch in and rek stuff due to its plethora of resists and solid bulk. It doesn't even need 252+ speed because it in theory only needs to outspeed Landoge. I second the nomination.

 

[LeoLancaster]

I'm thinking about getting into doubles (probably when the next B101 round starts, since a tutor would be really helpful), and I know I'm going to use this thread a lot as I do for any meta I play. As such I want to make sure I understand this correctly. Bear in mind I'm going to use examples, but they may not be completely accurate since I don't know the tier yet. Also, I'm using a scale of Great > Good > Decent > Bad, for whatever reason my brain decided it likes that organizational hierarchy.

Tier 1 is for Pokemon which are always great.

Tier 1.5 is for Pokemon which are either 1) nearly always good, but great against some teams (Ex: Bisharp vs. TR), or 2) nearly always great, except bad against some teams (Ex: Heatran vs. Rain).

Tier 2 section one is for Pokemon which are always great, but only on specific teamstyles (Ex: Mega Camerupt on TR, Suicune on Tailwind, Venusaur on Sun, Ludicolo on Rain).

Tier 2 section two is for Pokemon which are good (on most teamstyles), but never great.

Tier 3 is for Pokemon which are either 1) always good, but never great, on specific teamstyles (Ex: Zapdos on Tailwind), or 2) decent (on most teamstyles), but never good (Ex: Garchomp? Genesect?).

This explains how Pokemon which are the faces of various teamstyles make it into Tier 1 or 2. Char Y and Skymin might be the face of Sun and Tailwind respectively, but they can also be used as standalone threats. Politoed and Suicune are similarly essential to their teamstyles, but the don't work outside of those.

To conclude, I have a few questions:

1) Do I understand this correctly?

2) Assuming I do, there appears to be a sort of split inherent in the lower tiers of the list: Pokemon which are great/good but only on specific teamstyles, and Pokemon which are good/decent in general. This is evidenced by the two sections of Tier 2. Why isn't Tier 3 similarly split into two sections?

3) What exactly makes Deo-A, MGengar, Mew, and Azumarill fit into the category for Pokemon which are teamstyle specific? Is it some special kind of support they need, or do they only fit on a specific teamstyle and I'm just unaware at what teamstyle that is?

Thank you for your time, especially if this is obvious to all of you.

 

[AuraRayquaza]

I'm thinking about getting into doubles (probably when the next B101 round starts, since a tutor would be really helpful), and I know I'm going to use this thread a lot as I do for any meta I play. As such I want to make sure I understand this correctly. Bear in mind I'm going to use examples, but they may not be completely accurate since I don't know the tier yet. Also, I'm using a scale of Great > Good > Decent > Bad, for whatever reason my brain decided it likes that organizational hierarchy.

Tier 1 is for Pokemon which are always great.

Tier 1.5 is for Pokemon which are either 1) nearly always good, but great against some teams (Ex: Bisharp vs. TR), or 2) nearly always great, except bad against some teams (Ex: Heatran vs. Rain).

Tier 2 section one is for Pokemon which are always great, but only on specific teamstyles (Ex: Mega Camerupt on TR, Suicune on Tailwind, Venusaur on Sun, Ludicolo on Rain).

Tier 2 section two is for Pokemon which are good (on most teamstyles), but never great.

Tier 3 is for Pokemon which are either 1) always good, but never great, on specific teamstyles (Ex: Zapdos on Tailwind), or 2) decent (on most teamstyles), but never good (Ex: Garchomp? Genesect?).

This explains how Pokemon which are the faces of various teamstyles make it into Tier 1 or 2. Char Y and Skymin might be the face of Sun and Tailwind respectively, but they can also be used as standalone threats. Politoed and Suicune are similarly essential to their teamstyles, but the don't work outside of those.

To conclude, I have a few questions:

1) Do I understand this correctly?

2) Assuming I do, there appears to be a sort of split inherent in the lower tiers of the list: Pokemon which are great/good but only on specific teamstyles, and Pokemon which are good/decent in general. This is evidenced by the two sections of Tier 2. Why isn't Tier 3 similarly split into two sections?

3) What exactly makes Deo-A, MGengar, Mew, and Azumarill fit into the category for Pokemon which are teamstyle specific? Is it some special kind of support they need, or do they only fit on a specific teamstyle and I'm just unaware at what teamstyle that is?

Thank you for your time, especially if this is obvious to all of you.

Well i can answer your third question and partially your first question. Tier 2 part 1 is not only for pokemon which are great on a certain playstyle, but also require heavy support if used.

Deoxys A is a good pokemon, but can only function when it has fake out support to get a (potentially) free hit off, quick guard to block priority etc.

Azumarills most used set is belly drum, which can only function when given free turns to set up. Rage powder and fake out support is almost necessary.