Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

[Roshino]

I've seen a lot of usage from Tinkaton from high level play in Wcop and other tourneys. Can someone explain why it's a good mon. (note): I've seen mold breaker which I know is a good ability and also pickpocket

Typing and some specific counter qualities were mentioned, so I'll tunnel on the abilities;

Pickpocket + Air Balloon allows some shenanigans in which you steal enemy items the moment it pops with a contact move. Good stuff for punishing Tusk/Lando, etc. as they use a weaker coverage move to pop it, and it is a very common interaction. Item removal with very good action economy qualities.

Mold Breaker allows it to Thunder Wave Ghold and Gary afaik. Very niche but works well when the situation arises.

 

[Heatranator]

mean ehh… not really. SD Gliscor loves to feed on slower bulky teams that send in defensive answers to beat gliscor. You want to send in your own to spike up alongside it and create your own pressure with knock off? Too bad it clicks sd and now you have to switch out or risk getting swept, giving it a meaty +2 facade or a second swords dance.

But its initial power is kinda weak. +2 e-quake hits as hard as a neutral tusk headlong rush, so even boosted its not completely ripping through teams. And when it reveals sd, you pivot out to something that can force gliscor out. It may be a little scary on the first interaction, but now you know what set it is and can semi-consistently force it out. (though the gliscor player can instead attack instead of setting up, but that's a basic bread and butter aproach to setup mons, attacking switch ins to chip them down).

It’s not as if 140 base power moves are all that weak even with 95 attack, still manages sweeps.

No item acrobatics is 110 base power, but they aren't really comparable since hawlucha gets stab on acro, which essentially makes it 165 bp. And even still, hawlucha even after a boost can feel a bit underwhelming as even moderately bulky resists like gholdengo can take a hit and respond back. And as somebody who has used hawlucha a lot, I can say that lucha isn't particularly powerful. Plus, they do better against different things, lucha thrives against offense while gliscor thrives against bulkier teams.

That’s the problem isn’t it? Sure offense can deal with it fairly well but does a lot more harm to defensive teams than it helps.

These mons aren't necessarily the most difficult to fit onto defensive teams, if you don't have a strong breaker on a defensive team (besides stall, but that's a different story) then you are going to have lots of difficult matchups. You can't be passive in this meta at all and gliscor isn't the only thing preventing that (the variety of broken threats in the tier are, and no, gliscor is not one of them).

I was originally on board with staying in the tier following dlc2 because I thought it would be easier to handle but it just shuts down so many possible strategies on balance and slower teams. Previously mentioned or but also which would be great into offensive teams just gets hardwalled by poison heal. This same strategy happened in dlc1 and I think perhaps counterintuitively defensive teams got better with its removal

I mean, these mons are still amazing. Garg is probably at an all time high (also the gliscor/garg matchup is 50/50. Garg switches off poison heal and can recover off the damage/boost alongside gliscor, while gliscor knocks off gargs lefties and can deal great damage with e-quake) so gliscor is in no way stiffling it enough in order to make it bad, while okidogi is coming out as quite a good mon against a variety of things, primarily zamazenta. And if dogi really hates gliscor, it can tech ice punch, though that is a bit iffy with needing to lose knock or p-jab. Zapdos is probably the worst of the three, but gliscor is not the reason why. +2 facade is never 2hit ko'ing defensive zap while hurricane is a 2hit ko against physical defensive gliscor while special defensive gliscor is 3hit ko'd potentially. Zapdos struggles into stuff like raging bolt a lot more, and even if the gliscor is knock, they still will be taking significant damage in return.

I can do a full analysis on the tools balance would love to use but gets shut down by (sd or not) if someone wants it (spoiler, and are big winners) but I’ll keep it concise for now.

And once again, these mons are still amazing. Ting lu is a progress making machine while garg shuts down a lot of structures that are passive (which gliscor also does btw). It almost seems like gliscor is not as big a problem as the ban gliscor camp makes it out to be. Can we stop trying to make out gliscor is the reason why defensive teams are struggling? Seriously, while balance isn't the best, its still decent enough in the meta that it can work at high level (or even low level). As I keep on saying, you just need to hit the gliscor really hard and then keep up the offensive pressure in order to prevent it from healing. And as has been shown in this discussion, there are a variety of ways to limit gliscor. Just don't use the usual progress makers of knock off, status and hazards.

 

[RS25802580]

I mean ehh… not really. SD Gliscor loves to feed on slower bulky teams that send in defensive answers to beat gliscor.

If we’re talking slow, bulky teams, this feels more like a teambuilding issue than a Gliscor issue. If you’re building a passive bulky team that’s not stall, you’re gonna lose to mons like this. If it’s not Gliscor sweeping you, it’ll be something like Curse Garg.

It’s not as if 140 base power moves are all that weak even with 95 attack, still manages sweeps.

140 base power but no STAB. If you’re running Facade you also give up Knock which makes it harder to force progress, and you get walled by Balloon Ghold. Keep in mind that SD Gliscor is typically bulk invested while Hawlucha is Attack invested and carrying 110 and 120 BP STAB moves.

 

[Unscripted]

These mons aren't necessarily the most difficult to fit onto defensive teams, if you don't have a strong breaker on a defensive team (besides stall, but that's a different story) then you are going to have lots of difficult matchups.

The big problem is that theyre all hazards weak with the exception of boots (which doesn't particularly function as a breaker, but sd gliscor is not on teams that really need big breakers, so fair enough). Both and any set worth running will just get chipped down over the course of the game. You can run them on BO but I think bulky balance really appreciates breakers with more longeivity. Also, this isnt like 5 stallmons+dragapult I'm talking about, but not every single defensive answer on your team should be forced to have some sort of momentum on it (at least I think that should be the case in a balanced metagame). If I want to switch in because I predict the toxic headed for my (another reason these breakers don't really appreciate switching in) and he SDs, it is a struggle to get something in that can both deal with and not die on switch in. +2 facade foes over 50% to most breakers listed.

(also the gliscor/garg matchup is 50/50. Garg switches off poison heal and can recover off the damage/boost alongside gliscor, while gliscor knocks off gargs lefties and can deal great damage with e-quake) so gliscor is in no way stiffling it enough in order to make it bad,

I don't understand at all how the gliscor/garg matchup is 50/50 in the slightest. You can salt cure it to negate toxic heal but now it gets free spikes/knock off/SD/earthquake. Non curse sets have to press salt cure 15 times to actually kill it and are required to tera if you don't want to get chipped by earthquake. What move does curse garg even carry that lets it hit for meaningful damage anyway? Stone edge? The silver lining is that you can hopefully predict when the opponent will switch out for free salt cure chip.

I mean, these mons are still amazing. Garg is probably at an all time high (also the gliscor/garg matchup is 50/50. Garg switches off poison heal and can recover off the damage/boost alongside gliscor, while gliscor knocks off gargs lefties and can deal great damage with e-quake) so gliscor is in no way stiffling it enough in order to make it bad, while okidogi is coming out as quite a good mon against a variety of things, primarily zamazenta. And if dogi really hates gliscor, it can tech ice punch, though that is a bit iffy with needing to lose knock or p-jab. Zapdos is probably the worst of the three, but gliscor is not the reason why. +2 facade is never 2hit ko'ing defensive zap while hurricane is a 2hit ko against physical defensive gliscor while special defensive gliscor is 3hit ko'd potentially. Zapdos struggles into stuff like raging bolt a lot more, and even if the gliscor is knock, they still will be taking significant damage in return.
And once again, these mons are still amazing. Ting lu is a progress making machine while garg shuts down a lot of structures that are passive (which gliscor also does btw). It almost seems like gliscor is not as big a problem as the ban gliscor camp makes it out to be. Can we stop trying to make out gliscor is the reason why defensive teams are struggling? Seriously, while balance isn't the best, its still decent enough in the meta that it can work at high level (or even low level). As I keep on saying, you just need to hit the gliscor really hard and then keep up the offensive pressure in order to prevent it from healing. And as has been shown in this discussion, there are a variety of ways to limit gliscor. Just don't use the usual progress makers of knock off, status and hazards.

Maybe I came off as too harsh on , I am somewhat in the middle of its ban right now. It just is a fantastic mon against so many teams right now and its set diversity can create some really gut wrenching moments when you get it wrong.

and are certainly not "good" in the metagame right now, it feels like more of a contrarian reaction to me saying they will get better. Yes has other problems but not even 2HKOing physdef (it will just protect, and even if your opponent is stupid and doesnt, its only a 1/3 chance to 2hko) is certainly not helping it. hates knock off and toxic. having to tech ice punch is the problem. As for , I don't mean to insinuate that it's bad, but that it will get better. I think will get better too, but that does not mean it is bad right now. I also think will get better and so will (however marginal that may be).

If we’re talking slow, bulky teams, this feels more like a teambuilding issue than a Gliscor issue. If you’re building a passive bulky team that’s not stall, you’re gonna lose to mons like this. If it’s not Gliscor sweeping you, it’ll be something like Curse Garg.

Again, its not so much that demolishes passive bulky teams (it does, but as you mention, so do many other mons) but its that it punishes passive answers for switching in. doesn't want to switch into knock off or toxic, and if you instead put in something like your own to bait toxic or a expecting spikes or a physically defensive and it turns out to be SD, you are going to get chunked or lose a mon. Unless your has uturn, the defensive mon is eating a big boosted hit or the breaker that you're forced to switch to is getting eating it. No it's not as powerful as hawlucha, but its not some wimpy SD hit either. Obviously defensive mons can eat the hit, but thats not the point. loves to set up vs them.



On another tangentially related note, I've been using a bit of full Physdef recently and I absolutely love that thing. and are a little bit of a problem for it but it can just eat or for breakfast. If it had recovery it would be absolutely broken, reminds me of in a way

 

[Moyashi]

You can salt cure it to negate toxic heal but now it gets free spikes/knock off/SD/earthquake. Non curse sets have to press salt cure 15 times to actually kill it and are required to tera if you don't want to get chipped by earthquake.

You dont need to click more than one salt cure on gliscor and then just let other teammates take advantage of it. Gliscor taking Salt Cure AND rocks damage means it’s still ultimately losing health which makes it easier to break through for Garg teams.

and are certainly not "good" in the metagame right now, it feels like more of a contrarian reaction to me saying they will get better. Yes has other problems but not even 2HKOing physdef (it will just protect, and even if your opponent is stupid and doesnt, its only a 1/3 chance to 2hko) is certainly not helping it.

dogi is very niche, but it has some practical applications on certain teams as a stopgap to Zamazenta and a couple other threats like Kingambit, and the threat of Toxic Chain making it more proactive. As for Zapdos, it absolutely is good and has been regaining ground in the meta. It has seen more usage as of late.

0 SpA Zapdos Hurricane vs. 244 HP / 16 SpD Gliscor: 178-211 (50.5 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

What calc are you running physdef Gliscor which can take more than two with rocks up (yes, rocks will almost surely be up). Even in the event you switch Zap out for not wanting tonal with double turns of Hurricane fickle accuracy, this is a lot of progress on Gliscor which helps teammates. Also chance confusion makes it easier.

 

[Unscripted]

What calc are you running physdef Gliscor which can take more than two with rocks up (yes, rocks will almost surely be up). Even in the event you switch Zap out for not wanting tonal with double turns of Hurricane fickle accuracy, this is a lot of progress on Gliscor which helps teammates. Also chance confusion makes it easier.

0 SpA Zapdos Hurricane vs. 244 HP / 16 SpD Gliscor: 78-93 (22.1 - 26.4%) -- possible 7HKO after Poison Heal
Gliscor if gamefreak gave it 200 spdef

On a serious note yeah, if rocks are up then it will get 2hkod even with protect. But it’s actually more favorable to miss 2 hurricanes than hit 2 (51% vs 49%) which is not odds I’m willing to take all the time. Rocks aren’t always going to be up either, spikes are quite a bit more prevelant as they can do more damage over time so if you have a hisuian Samu lead, removal of your own, or force them to defog, it’s not uncommon to have rocks gone. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have this calc but rocks does make it better.
has been seeing some minor upward usage trends but it’s really that has been seeing the biggest comeback. It’s still solidly UU but with a niche in ou. It would certainly be better without who likes running spdef anyway for

 

[RS25802580]

The big problem is that theyre all hazards weak with the exception of boots (which doesn't particularly function as a breaker, but sd gliscor is not on teams that really need big breakers, so fair enough). Both and any set worth running will just get chipped down over the course of the game. You can run them on BO but I think bulky balance really appreciates breakers with more longeivity.

This argument can be made for almost half of the threats in OU. Every other mon has checks that are hazards weak. And in the case of Gliscor, it isn't even that severe. Kyurem and Darkrai both have boots as a primary set.

If you're running SD Gliscor, that means you need a separate hazards setter. If you use Ting Lu or Clod, then you're overlapping multiple bulky ground types that seriously exacerbate your weakness to Kyurem and Waterpon. If you're using Skarm, then the same weakness applies but now for Darkrai and Kyurem.

I've never been a big fan of the "but checks lose to hazards chip" arguments, and this is why. It ignores the fact that running SD Gliscor and maintaining hazards stack is a commitment that takes a lot of team support and opens up the team to new weaknesses as well.

Again, its not so much that demolishes passive bulky teams (it does, but as you mention, so do many other mons) but its that it punishes passive answers for switching in. doesn't want to switch into knock off or toxic, and if you instead put in something like your own to bait toxic or a expecting spikes or a physically defensive and it turns out to be SD, you are going to get chunked or lose a mon. Unless your has uturn, the defensive mon is eating a big boosted hit or the breaker that you're forced to switch to is getting eating it.

Isn't that the point of competitive gameplay in a meta as fast-paced as this? If you mispredict the set, you should face some consequences in the form of getting chunked. It's not reasonable to expect to always be able to switch a passive answer into Gliscor and make progress.

In the examples you mentioned, the risk isn't very severe either. You can always use to Encore the opposing Gliscor since a +2 EQ is only doing 50% back to you (I mentioned earlier that Gliscor doesn't hit very hard and this is one such case where it shows). Now you know their next attack and can bring in a check accordingly. Or, if you're running , you can just switch in your Zamazenta teammate (standard core) and take a grand... 30% from their +2 attack and spam ID accordingly. And this is all in the case that you aren't packing Corv or Skarm on your bulky balance team.

 

[Unscripted]

This argument can be made for almost half of the threats in OU. Almost every mon has some checks that are hazards weak. And in the case of Gliscor, it isn't even that severe. Kyurem and Darkrai both have boots as a primary set.

I've never been a big fan of the "but checks lose to hazards chip" arguments, and this is why. It ignores the fact that running SD Gliscor and maintaining hazards stack is a commitment that takes a lot of team support and opens up the team to new weaknesses as well.

You misunderstand my point. It’s not that SD gliscor teams specifically run hazard stack to beat these checks (although, they often can, not ever spiker is a ground type), it’s that these mons are unfavored on bulky balance because the metagame is so focused on hazard damage. Ogerpon probably has this the worst since it can’t run boots even if it wants to but darkrai really wants damage boosting items to be an effective breaker (conversation around darkrai remaining legal has been about how it doesn’t have the coverage + nasty plot to beat everything and it’s not like specs is all that effective to hit resists for big chunks either). Boots kyurem is good at specifically beating sd gliscor but I’ve found it’s performance to be inconsistent with boots on fat teams simply because it has no self sustain and is weak to toxic and hazards if it’s knocked off. Pretty hard to switch kyurem into gliscor without a pivoting move and retain your longevity over the entire game.

Isn't that the point of competitive gameplay in a meta as fast-paced as this? If you mispredict the set, you should face some consequences in the form of getting chunked. It's not reasonable to expect to always be able to switch a passive answer into Gliscor and make progress.

Yes but I think that’s an inherent problem and something people bring up all the time for banworthy threats like kyurem. Assuming Bloodmoon ursaluna didn’t have body press and losing your blissey was a huge problem (although I will note this was not the sole or even primary reason for its ban). isn’t the biggest abuser of this, I think ’s tera type or punish you more for it, but I don’t think “well the rest of the metagame is like this” is really a fair argument for why that’s ok.

You can always use to Encore the opposing Gliscor since a +2 EQ is only doing 42-50% back to you (I mentioned earlier that Gliscor doesn't hit very hard and this is one such case where it shows). Now you know their next attack and can bring in a check accordingly. Or, if you're running , you can just switch in your Zamazenta teammate (standard core) and take a grand... 23% from their +2 attack and spam ID accordingly. And this is all in the case that you aren't packing Corv or Skarm on your bulky balance team.

Encore? Really? It doesn’t even show up in the most common moves and really wants to run other more useful moves. Also where are you getting your calcs? +2 0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%)
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 112-133 (28.8 - 34.2%)
burns it’s def boost on the gliscor switch and while you now know the set, your zama is going to be far less effective in dealing with other physical setup threats. You take 1/3 as chip +whatever hazards are down (unless it’s boots in which case you won’t have idef and the damage is permanent). Certainly not a free interaction.

Again it’s not that SD is some insane banworthy sweeper in its own right, it takes advantage of how insanely powerful and meta warping normal Gliscor sets are and takes advantage of many of it’s answers on slower teams. I really don’t like to being tera up when discussing checks because of the sheer number of possibilities, but it’s not as if is a sitting duck to random ice coverage or water moves on ogerpon, just about any of its common tera types avoid this weakness and losing a big breaker to something that still has a considerable amount of bulk is a fair trade for your tera depending on game circumstance

 

[RS25802580]

You misunderstand my point. It’s not that SD gliscor teams specifically run hazard stack to beat these checks (although, they often can, not ever spiker is a ground type), it’s that these mons are unfavored on bulky balance because the metagame is so focused on hazard damage.

Running bulky balance without Skarm or Corv and being weak to SD Gliscor is just part of the way the game works to be honest. There are always gonna be some mons that are particularly strong against certain team types. That’s a choice and sacrifice that’s made in the builder.

Encore? Really? It doesn’t even show up in the most common moves and really wants to run other more useful moves. Also where are you getting your calcs? +2 0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%)
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 112-133 (28.8 - 34.2%)
burns it’s def boost on the gliscor switch and while you now know the set, your zama is going to be far less effective in dealing with other physical setup threats. You take 1/3 as chip +whatever hazards are down (unless it’s boots in which case you won’t have idef and the damage is permanent). Certainly not a free interaction.

Again it’s not that SD is some insane banworthy sweeper in its own right, it takes advantage of how insanely powerful and meta warping normal Gliscor sets are and takes advantage of many of it’s answers on slower teams. I really don’t like to being tera up when discussing checks because of the sheer number of possibilities, but it’s not as if is a sitting duck to random ice coverage or water moves on ogerpon, just about any of its common tera types avoid this weakness and losing a big breaker to something that still has a considerable amount of bulk is a fair trade for your tera depending on game circumstance

Amended the calcs (thanks for this, it’s late and I’m tired) but it’s only a minor difference and I think my point still stands. Encore Clefable is good tech. It’s not a standard slap on but it’s something you can customize to your non-Iron Bird bulky balance team when you realize it’s weak to… (surprise) SD Gliscor.

Regarding Zama, it’s not a free interaction but it’s not meant to be. Very little in the game is free. Remember, this is also after we mispredicted the Gliscor set. Sure, it’s harder for Zama to also check other setup sweepers. Stopping the Gliscor sweep and wearing it down enough to be reliably revenge killed is its purpose here. How many additional physical setup sweepers are gonna fit on a SD Gliscor team that’s also committed to HStack? And besides, if we’re solely relying on Zama to check multiple physical sweepers in the same game, it’s being stretched too thin. Again, this feels like a teambuilding issue.

I really don’t like to being tera up when discussing checks because of the sheer number of possibilities, but it’s not as if is a sitting duck to random ice coverage or water moves on ogerpon, just about any of its common tera types avoid this weakness and losing a big breaker to something that still has a considerable amount of bulk is a fair trade for your tera depending on game circumstance.

“Spend a tera, beat a check” is frankly just the way it goes when it comes to all setup sweepers this gen. While Gliscor is bulky, the trade off is that it’s also significantly slower and less powerful at +2 than other sweepers that use a tera.

 

[super_dino341]

just sharing this b4 i go to sleep

also welcone iron crown to the tier!! what did y'all feel about the tier shiftrys?

ty for spreading my video!!!

 

[Achohermano]

It is true that Gliscor can (most of the time) outlast a lot of its checks, start to hit hard at +2 while being quite bulky (even if you have to setup first, which is losing a turn on a fairly passive Pokémon in a really fast paced metagame) and honestly, from my point of view, the 50/50 between utility and SD set can create difficult dynamics that are hard to adapt in the middle of a game.

However, I think we can all agree that it's not like Gliscor can suddently one tap every mon in the tier and while only having two weaknesses, they are common/ useful moves to slap on a Pokémon even if you don't face Gliscor.

The thing is (and I say this while HATING Gliscor) you can actually use almost all of this arguments with IVal or DeoS, and both of these Pokémon are healthy and cool in the tier. At least for me, and I don't see anyone complaining from them.

Gliscor is quite troublesome and imo it could be looked at, of course, but I don't agree with the argument of SD Gliscor being this ultra powerhouse. A lot of Pokémon can stop it in its tracks before it gets going, some of them in my opinion are:
DeoS, Primarina, Kyurem, Darkrai, Corv, Skarm, Encore mons including Dnite Ival Waterpon, Zamazenta, Weavile, Meowscarada, Walking Wake, setup Tusk, Dnite with Ice Spinner, tera fairy specs Raging Bolt, Balloon Ghold if Gliscor is not using Knock Off (if it's not then it's not running Facade and it's weaker overall) sits on it, HexPult does a lot, even more "offmeta" stuff like Rain or slapping ice Beam on a defensive Pokémon like Glowking or Clef) and if it burns tera then it's a resource the player is wasting.
In a pro-tera meta having to waste the tera in order to gain an advantage aganist a certain mon is basic. I think that just saying "yeah but it can tera into this" should not be usually a valid argument anymore. Since if every ban is gonna be about tera it's useless to keep the mechanic in the tier. It's gonna stay and we have to accept some Pokémon use it better than others.

Some people have talked about have Corv and Skarm are not Gliscor's counters, which I heavily disagree with. Or at least they've not been mentioned even once in this recent posts about mid/long term answers.
+6 0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. +6 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 34-40 (8.5 - 10%)
If Corv is Leftovers it can almost outheal the damage, if helmet it negates poison heal +
+6 252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 102-120 (28.9 - 34%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal

And this is assuming best case scenario for Gliscor, where Gliscor is full PhysDef. If it's SpDef it can range from a possible 4HKO to a guaranteed 4HKO. I've seen Corvs winning 1V1 Gliscors in high ladder.

All of this is my opinion today tho maybe Gliscor finds an incredible set in a couple of weeks and it adapts to all the meta. But, as of now, I don't even think it's Gliscor's best set, but actually enhanced by the chance of it being utility rather than a really strong mon

 

[StompyStomps]

just sharing this b4 i go to sleep

also welcone iron crown to the tier!! what did y'all feel about the tier shiftrys?

Iron Crown is a fun addition to the tier, Moltres will be a pain, Reuniclus making a comeback might increase it's OU usage, Torkoal dropping is strange, Serp dropping is nightmare fuel, and Ribombee is manageable.

 

[Unscripted]

Reuniclus making a comeback might increase it's OU usage

Any suggestions on what do run with it? It’s my favorite mon and I’ve tried to make it work but it just feels doomed in the current meta. AV regen is just a fake gking, and its magic guard sets need like 5 turns of setup and 12 coverage moves to be good. Gambit, Lu, and all the other other darks in the tier really prevent it from spamming most of its moves. I’ve tried tera fairy, water, and fighting, but none seem to be helping it all too much. Focus blast would be great if it ever hit (+it’s slower than gambit) and thunder+psychic is doomed from the start. Recovery nerf really hurt it against slower teams imo. Don’t mean to be dismissal of its usage but any tips and teammates for the best bloo blob (shiny) would be appreciated.

One thing I haven’t tried is TR+3 attacks with life orb but that feels a little lacking in power and just a worse hatterene

 

[StompyStomps]

Any suggestions on what do run with it? It’s my favorite mon and I’ve tried to make it work but it just feels doomed in the current meta. AV regen is just a fake gking, and its magic guard sets need like 5 turns of setup and 12 coverage moves to be good. Gambit, Lu, and all the other other darks in the tier really prevent it from spamming most of its moves. I’ve tried tera fairy, water, and fighting, but none seem to be helping it all too much. Focus blast would be great if it ever hit (+it’s slower than gambit) and thunder+psychic is doomed from the start. Recovery nerf really hurt it against slower teams imo. Don’t mean to be dismissal of its usage but any tips and teammates for the best bloo blob (shiny) would be appreciated.

One thing I haven’t tried is TR+3 attacks with life orb but that feels a little lacking in power and just a worse hatterene

Yours too? Cool! I recommend this set;
Reuniclus @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 224 HP / 252 SpA / 32 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Tera Blast
- Psychic
- Trick Room
it helps against and , not very much against , but you can just pair it with or for . It does require using Tera, but I've found it worth it to turn the tables on a cocky or switch. Psychic hits , , and pretty hard.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Any suggestions on what do run with it? It’s my favorite mon and I’ve tried to make it work but it just feels doomed in the current meta. AV regen is just a fake gking, and its magic guard sets need like 5 turns of setup and 12 coverage moves to be good. Gambit, Lu, and all the other other darks in the tier really prevent it from spamming most of its moves. I’ve tried tera fairy, water, and fighting, but none seem to be helping it all too much. Focus blast would be great if it ever hit (+it’s slower than gambit) and thunder+psychic is doomed from the start. Recovery nerf really hurt it against slower teams imo. Don’t mean to be dismissal of its usage but any tips and teammates for the best bloo blob (shiny) would be appreciated.

One thing I haven’t tried is TR+3 attacks with life orb but that feels a little lacking in power and just a worse hatterene

i think the main problem with reuniclus in the modern day and age is that there's a mon that can do its job better no matter what you're actually trying to do with it. gking is a better regen pivot and hatt is a better tr setter, as you've said, and then iron crown's better as a fat setup psychic-type toxic absorber, clef's better as an mguard setup blob, garg and gliscor are better status absorbers, prim's a better pnoise stallbreaker, ghold's a better psyshock stallbreaker (hell, ghold is basically a hyper-optimized gen 5 reuniclus in general), and all this is before factoring in how bad of a typing psychic is in a meta with this many good dark- and ghost-types. you gotta really stand out if you wanna make it as a psychic-type in this city, and i don't think reuniclus can measure up in modern times. i hope i'm wrong and it can find its own thing it can do, though

 

[xavgb]

Any suggestions on what do run with it? It’s my favorite mon and I’ve tried to make it work but it just feels doomed in the current meta. AV regen is just a fake gking, and its magic guard sets need like 5 turns of setup and 12 coverage moves to be good. Gambit, Lu, and all the other other darks in the tier really prevent it from spamming most of its moves. I’ve tried tera fairy, water, and fighting, but none seem to be helping it all too much. Focus blast would be great if it ever hit (+it’s slower than gambit) and thunder+psychic is doomed from the start. Recovery nerf really hurt it against slower teams imo. Don’t mean to be dismissal of its usage but any tips and teammates for the best bloo blob (shiny) would be appreciated.

One thing I haven’t tried is TR+3 attacks with life orb but that feels a little lacking in power and just a worse hatterene

Magic Guard CM sets aren't worth it since they kinda get stuck forever if the opponent has a check for them, but 3 attacks with Psynoise/Knock/Focus + hazards acts as a blanket response to pretty much everything defensive in the metagame. Thanks to the hazard immunity and Recover it performs this role incredibly safely even against the usual types of counter-pressure that these teams try to exert against breakers (Garg + hazards etc), and its general bulk + neutral typing allows it to trade decently into offensive teams as well (it's even favoured in a raw 1v1 vs Darkrai). Its best partner is generally Clefable, which might sound a bit weird, but Clef actually appreciates having some of its moveslots freed up, since it can freely run Rocks without fearing a loss against Curse Garg, and both mons are good at making safe progress against bulky teams while forcing offensive threats to trade some HP. Compressing the anti-fat matchup like this also gives you more freedom for the rest of your build to handle offense. A good example of a team that makes use of these traits would be this team that I built a few months ago which was also used by Vert for some DCT laddering, or the slightly updated version of that team which admittedly has less testing but keeps most of the same ideas with a couple tweaks to beat down SD Gliscor teams better.

The TR 3 attacks set you mentioned has also been used on a recent RMT which you can find here. I personally haven't used that set at all so I'll defer to the descriptions in that post for what it does.

 

[Roshino]

Not sure how it would run in tournament settings and super high ladder, but I have run Tera Fighting Tera Blast in low-mid ladder in the ~1600 range to good success as a lure to both RM, Gambit, and Darkrai.

lil man @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Tera Blast
- Calm Mind
- Recover

I built the team considering I would be teraing the vibe dude most games. Psyshock is a quick nuke to would-be Special Walls that does not require much set up, contrary to Stored Power, and it also ensures victory on CM wars. Tera Blast Fighting is the main gimmick here, and its 40 SpA EVs ensures it breaks through Dozos with no SpDef investment. Further, Fighting is REALLY good on Reuniclus - not only it flips most matchups, Fighting's vulnerabilities to Psychic, Fairy, and Flying don't often come up out of the special side which will be beefed up considering you'll Tera to break through a check and sustain your CM boosts. Absorbing Knock-Off is handy too.

Bold + Magic Guard ensures it has SO MUCH STUFF as setup fodder it's crazy. You could just go Focus Blast but the accuracy is a big one here because you need to get that Blast landing the turn you Tera to enable the snowball. I don't exaggerate when I claim it would take down at least two and possibly chip multiple enemy mons every single match a Dark-type was present to attempt to check it. Often it would just fuckin' immediately sweep because after a few boosts it is just really hard to break through Recover and Magic Guard.

Give it a chance - the only reason I stopped running it is it was getting real iffy to justify using it when Glowking became pretty much necessary to hold Kyurem on that particular composition.

 

[TheDuckChris]

Hello folks
Just posting to say that I have opened a discussion on Rate My Team threads that are iconic to the pre-home SV OU metagame. We are looking for input as to which teams are the most representative of that meta, you can leave comments in this thread
Was a good time looking through the old teams like psyspam with armarouge, Shed Tail + Roaring Moon, and Baxcalibur Hyper Offenses

 

[sims796]

I'm actually enjoying the tier a bit more than I expected. It's more offense oriented than I would like, but I can lay with Balance without feeling like a massive struggle. I'm all for Kyu, Dark, and maybe Wogre getting the axe, in that order. Yeah yeah hazards, yeah yeah 4MSS, just get rid of one. Or two, preferably.

Still, I can play with off kilter mons and wacky sets, and have some sort of fun. The amount of work that Vileplume of all options has put in is staggering.

I rather like the 14/1600s. Players are good enough to make me play seriously while still allowing some creativity

Holy shit I just ran into a Hydrapple set what with Eject Pack, Leaf/Meteor and Recycle! That was wild.

 

[Roshino]

Holy shit I just ran into a Hydrapple set what with Eject Pack, Leaf/Meteor and Recycle! That was wild.

 

[sims796]

View attachment 646844

I mean I don't get to judge, what with the aforementioned Vileplume and all. It was pretty clever when I saw it. Didn't do much, but I bet the dude was just experimenting. Just nuke, bye, nuke, bye, recycle, nuke, bye, recycle, bye, nuke...

Maybe it would have done more if my team wasn't oversaturated with Grass and Fairy (which I why I don't mind Ogre staying a little longer)

 

[Roshino]

I mean I don't get to judge, what with the aforementioned Vileplume and all. It was pretty clever when I saw it. Didn't do much, but I bet the dude was just experimenting. Just nuke, bye, nuke, bye, recycle, nuke, bye, recycle, bye, nuke...

Maybe it would have done more if my team wasn't oversaturated with Grass and Fairy (which I why I don't mind Ogre staying a little longer)

Oh yeah I shouldn't either - I'm always playing dumb shit. I was fucking with Fury Cutter Scarf Kleavor the other day.

I will though, because damn, that? Recycle is devouring any momentum you'd gain.

It's as if you had a way to play Poison Heal, but every other turn you take normal poison damage wtf

 

[sims796]

Oh yeah I shouldn't either - I'm always playing dumb shit. I was fucking with Fury Cutter Scarf Kleavor the other day.

I will though, because damn, that? Recycle is devouring any momentum you'd gain.

It's as if you had a way to play Poison Heal, but every other turn you take normal poison damage wtf

Yeah, I really wanted it to work, but once the novelty wore off every Recycle just gave me a free turn. It did nothing in the match worth mentioning.

 

[ImprovedBore]

I'm actually enjoying the tier a bit more than I expected. It's more offense oriented than I would like, but I can lay with Balance without feeling like a massive struggle. I'm all for Kyu, Dark, and maybe Wogre getting the axe, in that order. Yeah yeah hazards, yeah yeah 4MSS, just get rid of one. Or two, preferably.

Still, I can play with off kilter mons and wacky sets, and have some sort of fun. The amount of work that Vileplume of all options has put in is staggering.

I rather like the 14/1600s. Players are good enough to make me play seriously while still allowing some creativity

Holy shit I just ran into a Hydrapple set what with Eject Pack, Leaf/Meteor and Recycle! That was wild.

i know this wasn't your team and all, but... why recycle, genuine question

like even if it replenished your eject pack, which it doesn't afaik, would it not just fail if you switch out then back in?

 

[Demon Queen]

i know this wasn't your team and all, but... why recycle, genuine question

like even if it replenished your eject pack, which it doesn't afaik, would it not just fail if you switch out then back in?

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2159312980 nope looks like it works perfectly