scpinion
Life > Monotype... unfortunately :)
The council has decided to re-suspect Hoopa-Unbound.
Acast: suspect
DoW: no suspect
Eien: suspect
Paleo: suspect
rnbs: suspect
scpinion: suspect
iVid: suspect
Council Perspectives
In many cases these aren't word for word what we wrote, but they get at the heart of it. Most of our posts here aren't as in-depth, well-written, etc as what you see on the forums. We're chatting in real time, which makes that far more difficult to do effectively.
Also, you have to remember that we're discussing if it is suspect-worthy, not ban-worthy. We argue about if it is ban-worthy in the thread just like everyone else. Things are suspect worthy if we think there is a possibility they violate some portion of the tiering philosophy.
DoW: no suspect
Eien: suspect
Paleo: suspect
rnbs: suspect
scpinion: suspect
iVid: suspect
Council Perspectives
In many cases these aren't word for word what we wrote, but they get at the heart of it. Most of our posts here aren't as in-depth, well-written, etc as what you see on the forums. We're chatting in real time, which makes that far more difficult to do effectively.
Also, you have to remember that we're discussing if it is suspect-worthy, not ban-worthy. We argue about if it is ban-worthy in the thread just like everyone else. Things are suspect worthy if we think there is a possibility they violate some portion of the tiering philosophy.
Many other people had posted by the time Acast saw the discussion. He agreed we should suspect it.
"We need another suspect if we're ever going to be comfortable with Hoopa-U's presence in the metagame"
"We need another suspect if we're ever going to be comfortable with Hoopa-U's presence in the metagame"
Guess it's getting suspected in any case but for what it's worth I'm gonna vote no suspect, simply because I don't think there's been enough consideration for what gets suspected - I think we're saying "suspect hoopa-u bc psy is OP rn" without looking at whether anything else could be nerfed instead, and that hoopa-u is being looked at more than other things (at least in part) because it's a) new and b) a wallbreaker, which are always looked at more than other things even when it's not those that are broken (see: lando-i was being discussed back when we were sorting out flying).
So yeah tl;dr I'm happy to end up suspecting this, but I think we should have discussed potential suspects further before deciding on suspecting hoopa-u.
I guess a better way to phrase my vote would be "Continue discussion" rather than "no suspect"
We talked about a couple other potential suspects after this, but that discussion ultimately went nowhere.
So yeah tl;dr I'm happy to end up suspecting this, but I think we should have discussed potential suspects further before deciding on suspecting hoopa-u.
I guess a better way to phrase my vote would be "Continue discussion" rather than "no suspect"
We talked about a couple other potential suspects after this, but that discussion ultimately went nowhere.
I had an interesting conversation with a friend about this about whether Hoopa-U's best sets were being optimally used in the first place back when it was first suspected. Choice Band and Specs Hoopa-U were very uncommon. Life Orb sets were more tailored as anti-Steel than wallbreaking, and Choice Scarf was still quite popular. I think it was easy for people to underestimate how good it could be with the right sets. Thus, I'll vote resuspect. However, I did notice that most of the discussion on the forums and in PS! chatrooms about this was generally from people that either don't vote at all or chronically cause drama, so I do so with slight concern.
Paleo -: What puts psychic over the top?
Paleo -: Why is psychic "op" now
Paleo -: Rather than it not being op before
Paleo -: Will taking hoopa away solve this problem?
Paleo -: I don't think psy is overpowered at all
Paleo -: But hoopa is p insane
Paleo -: Why is psychic "op" now
Paleo -: Rather than it not being op before
Paleo -: Will taking hoopa away solve this problem?
Paleo -: I don't think psy is overpowered at all
Paleo -: But hoopa is p insane
oh man i hate doing a resuspect, but i also do think that it deserved a ban last time because of it's huge movepool, insane atk/spa and additionally 130 spdef which is why it's not even really frail
[...]was deemed broken because it was simply too good relative to the rest of the metagame and caused the tier to centralize around it, but it could also be labeled as uncompetitive because of the severe team match up restriction it caused by punishing players if they did not pack one of the few gimmicky and obscure counters or checks for it.
Vote: suspect again
i do know that my personal opinion should not be the factor to decide whether hoopa gets a suspect i do think that it definetely does deserve to be tested
[...]was deemed broken because it was simply too good relative to the rest of the metagame and caused the tier to centralize around it, but it could also be labeled as uncompetitive because of the severe team match up restriction it caused by punishing players if they did not pack one of the few gimmicky and obscure counters or checks for it.
Vote: suspect again
i do know that my personal opinion should not be the factor to decide whether hoopa gets a suspect i do think that it definetely does deserve to be tested
My opinions on it have changed since last time and that was simply because I underestimated how good it was on Psychic. I also think we still had people that voted against the tiering philosophy out of spite or just to make a point. We re-suspected Sablenite for a similar reason (although I do think that rationale holds less ground here). Most importantly, I think it is broken and would like to see the ORAS meta end in a healthy state so we can enjoy it in MPL and other future tours.
Hoopa-U is tricky I feel like atm isn't the best of times to suspect test it. I do think Hoopa-U is a monster especially Specs Hoopa-U in combo with Mega Medi destroys multiple cores with ease. Suspect gets my vote
Ever since it was introduced, Hoopa-U has been a huge threat in the Monotype metagame. However, the community deemed it was not broken in the first suspect. In general, the council was very hesitant to redo this suspect test because we didn't feel there were external factors, like in the Sablenite suspect. However, it is clear that Hoopa-U builds are dominating the metagame, as many people have lamented over in the discussion thread.
We're primarily doing this suspect test because the metagame has evolved—specifically the manner in which Hoopa-U is used has evolved. At the time of the original suspect, the most common sets were a Choice Scarf variant or Lefties/LO with three moves tailored to beat Steel teams. For example, <30% of Hoopa-U on Psychic teams used a damage-boosting item—~10% used Choice Band and <1% used Choice Specs while the rest were LO sets.
The most recent usage stats really show how Hoopa-U has evolved. More than half the Hoopa-U on Psychic teams use damage-boosting items; while a Choice Specs set, arguably the most threatening set, now accounts for ~15% of the usage. Hoopa-U has become unpredictable and the shift away from "steel-breaker" sets has made it very difficult to reliably check. Thus, we want the community to have another opportunity to vote on Hoopa-U.
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In order to vote in this suspect, you will need to accumulate 3120 COIL on the Monotype ladder where Hoopa-Unbound will be banned. The B-value for this suspect is 4.0. There is no game limit for this test. If you want to calculate the exact number of games a certain GXE requires, go here and replace the word GXE with the numerical GXE you're interested in and click search. To learn more about the COIL system, read Antar's thread here.
You may also view your COIL by simply typing /rank into the PS! simulator once the ladder is set up. Tagging The Immortal to set up the ladder. Thanks in advance!
We will also host suspect tours in the Monotype Events room. More details on these tours will be announced soon.
For those that obtain the requirements necessary to vote, there will be two options: global ban or no ban.
Some reference GXEs and the number of games required:
Code:
Games GXE
218 79
110 80
74 81
56 82
45 83
38 84
Participating in this suspect test does not count towards the Tiering Contributor badge.
The account you achieve your reqs with must be created on or after the date of this post and must have the correct tag at the start of it so we can ensure that everyone laddered within the suspect period.
Example: If I were to use my own name for obtaining reqs, the account I would use would be: MSH scp.
THE TAG IS: MSH
This suspect will end at 11:59pm UTC two weeks from the date the ladder goes up. By that time you must have identified with your reqs in the identification thread. The identification thread will go up during the suspect period and will be announced here as well as linked in the Monotype room.
A 60% majority in favor of banning Hoopa-U will be necessary for the ban to occur.
Intelligent and respectful debate of Hoopa-U in this thread is encouraged during the suspect period. One-line posts and shitposts are not. You are welcome to have more casual discussions on this topic in the monotype room.
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