Well, his power might have been Bullet Proof Vest, something for the mafia not to kill. Or just a self-watcher, which presents other stuff. Or it could have been something else that's weak, and not worth killing over someone else who's on to something.
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Mario Kart Mafia (NOC) END: VILLAGE WINS
- Thread starter Eagle4
- Start date
Blackhawk11
one on one
@Houndoomsday I haven't been posting a lot mostly due to work; I've almost doubled the number of hours I was supposed to work this week already.
I don't think that Spiffy has been tunneling Celever. Sure, Spiffy has devoted most of his attention towards him, but I agree with Spiffy that he was just trying to see one of his suspicions through. Of course, I also find Celever very scummy so this may be the reason I'm siding with Spiffy.
cxinlee is kind of setting off my scum-radar right now. His posts seem methodical, for instance:
I don't think that Spiffy has been tunneling Celever. Sure, Spiffy has devoted most of his attention towards him, but I agree with Spiffy that he was just trying to see one of his suspicions through. Of course, I also find Celever very scummy so this may be the reason I'm siding with Spiffy.
cxinlee is kind of setting off my scum-radar right now. His posts seem methodical, for instance:
In addition to that, his scumreads often contain very little substance, including the most recent one. It just seems like he's got an agenda that he's following to make him look town. This could be laid out by his mafia buddies for him, considering this is his first game. I don't want to rule out the fact that he is just a huge noob and is trying to follow examples set by other games or a Smog guide or whatever, but something about his posts is making me think he's got someone behind the scenes helping him out. I don't feel strong enough about this to change my vote from Celever, however.cxinlee said:
Sorry, you're right. However the only time I made a knock against you was at the very end. One time I answered I question I was asked pertaining to you, and the other time I asked a question to Metal Sonic for something he didn't explain. And when I said that I only solely called you out one time (which doesn't even matter because it wasn't the only thing I was doing as I pointed out earlier) I was referring to on that one page, since Houndoomsday said he only looked at that one page before he started making his comments. I am aware that I called you out more than one time.
I didn't ask your point, I asked which of my points you were talking about that I kept repeating. Until I know that I can't respond.Celever said:
Once again you are putting words in my mouth. If I wanted him to refute something I would have asked him a question. You should know better then any that I am not afraid to ask questions to get someone to respond. Why do you have to resort to this to make me look bad?Celever said:
Why does this even matter? I thought you were scummy, I explained why, and I voted for you. Many others agreed with me. You act as though my suspicions are uncalled for and that no one else has expressed their agreement.Celever said:
Do you expect everyone to accept "none of your business" as an answer to Acklow's question. How about this: I will start answering questions with "none of your business" and see how far that gets us.Celever said:
Acklow
I am always tired. Don't bother me.
Alright, time for some more reads:
7. Woodchuck - While he initially started the bandwagon on BtB unintentionally, he was the one who also brought up the idea that BtB was "vaguely claiming PR." Reading most of his posts, he seemed quick to notice contradictions or sketchy behavior pretty easily and from the looks of it plays pretty safe. He usually posts one-liners, but none of them seem controversial. He seems to be a solid-type. I'll rate him Moderately Town.
9. Aura Guardian- Often times this guy clashes with Jalmont, Soul Vapor, and a few others. Mainly the first two though. One thing I noticed early on is he drew a connection between Jalmont and BtB (Me). One thing about this connection that I do not agree with is the fact that it primarily was based on the fact that BtB called Jalmont out in a wishy-washy manner. He drew a conclusion that BtB was probably scum and Jalmont was probably village just from that connection alone. I think that that's pulling straws and isn't a solid enough argument to work towards showing either Jalmont or I as scum. However later on he continues on by drawing connections between Solar Vapor and Jalmont and tying them to BtB (me). Before my tl;dr he finally posts his thoughts on interactions between Marquis and MS and BtB (Me). Throughout all of this, he has concluded that I am inevitably scum. He does give me the benefit of the doubt, but only a little. What I find most interesting is the fact that at first his vote on Soul Vapor was merely pressure. Now it has turned into a fireball in which he won't remove his vote until SV provides a considerably decent defense together that clears AG's suspicions. AG has claimed thus far that SV has not done a good job and therefore has kept his vote on him. I'm not entirely sure of where he stands, but thus far he's proven fairly reliable, even though he has been quick to assume scumteams. At this moment I give him a Null Read.
10. Blackhawk11- Doesn't post much. He posts like once every so often. A lot of what he said and did I found very agreeable, with his reads of various players, most recently cxinlee. One thing that irritates me though is the lack of proper commitment to making posts. I wouldn't mind seeing more out of you Blackhawk11! @Blackhawk11, would you mind telling us your thoughts on Snaquaza? So far I'm getting Mild Town vibes from you.
Now as for the third paragraph, I am confirming that my role PM has a part in it that says that I cannot mention what it says. At least what it is in particular. If anything I will confirm one thing: Metal Sonic was spot on when he said that you guys were probably chasing after a villager with an item.
@Aura Guardian, I posted my read on you and I also mentioned my thoughts on what you said in your posts. If that is not sufficient I'll dig deeper, but for now I think I made a decent point. I honestly am having a rough time putting up reads just because its so strenuous and I usually only have enough time to do so after coming from 10-12 hour shifts at work (mind you this is 6 days a week as well). Now I have one question for you. Since you are pretty good at drawing conclusions a little too easily, would you mind telling us what you think about @Spiffy vs @Celever? Thanks~
7. Woodchuck - While he initially started the bandwagon on BtB unintentionally, he was the one who also brought up the idea that BtB was "vaguely claiming PR." Reading most of his posts, he seemed quick to notice contradictions or sketchy behavior pretty easily and from the looks of it plays pretty safe. He usually posts one-liners, but none of them seem controversial. He seems to be a solid-type. I'll rate him Moderately Town.
9. Aura Guardian- Often times this guy clashes with Jalmont, Soul Vapor, and a few others. Mainly the first two though. One thing I noticed early on is he drew a connection between Jalmont and BtB (Me). One thing about this connection that I do not agree with is the fact that it primarily was based on the fact that BtB called Jalmont out in a wishy-washy manner. He drew a conclusion that BtB was probably scum and Jalmont was probably village just from that connection alone. I think that that's pulling straws and isn't a solid enough argument to work towards showing either Jalmont or I as scum. However later on he continues on by drawing connections between Solar Vapor and Jalmont and tying them to BtB (me). Before my tl;dr he finally posts his thoughts on interactions between Marquis and MS and BtB (Me). Throughout all of this, he has concluded that I am inevitably scum. He does give me the benefit of the doubt, but only a little. What I find most interesting is the fact that at first his vote on Soul Vapor was merely pressure. Now it has turned into a fireball in which he won't remove his vote until SV provides a considerably decent defense together that clears AG's suspicions. AG has claimed thus far that SV has not done a good job and therefore has kept his vote on him. I'm not entirely sure of where he stands, but thus far he's proven fairly reliable, even though he has been quick to assume scumteams. At this moment I give him a Null Read.
10. Blackhawk11- Doesn't post much. He posts like once every so often. A lot of what he said and did I found very agreeable, with his reads of various players, most recently cxinlee. One thing that irritates me though is the lack of proper commitment to making posts. I wouldn't mind seeing more out of you Blackhawk11! @Blackhawk11, would you mind telling us your thoughts on Snaquaza? So far I'm getting Mild Town vibes from you.
@Spiffy: First of all, I'd like to dispel a foolish notion very quickly about my play-style in mafia. The bane of my existence is my personal incapability to lie and keep a straight face. Unfortunately that's just my character. I always try to find a way to make an excuse if I need to be dishonest and in doing so I usually avoid the truth rather than outright say a falsehood. I don't know why I'm like that but that's just the way I am. I'm fairly naive when it comes to lies and if you need proof you can look at Mafia Rising for reference as well as a few other games in the past where I had to lead the village. Likewise the one and only NOC where I ever was mafia (I forgot which game it was), I ended up being easily picked out as mafia due to the fact that I honestly couldn't provide good reads without looking extremely scummy. I might've matured and changed since then, sure, but I still have always been sucky at being actual scum. I'm just much better at being village. Now that doesn't mean that Eagle4 didn't put me into a mafia role and that I may be just spewing lies right now. Sure, you said it yourself: I have experience in mafia, and to top it all off I shared BtB's playerslot. This does not outright mean I'm innocent after my awesome tl;dr. However, I think I've proven enough up until now that I have no reason to be lying. And you even mentioned that yourself as well: you were surprised that I played against your expectations in that I claimed vanilla village rather than trying to make a claim as PR. Where's the logic in that? The only logical explanation would be that I actually am vanilla and that I had no reason to hide it.
Now as for the third paragraph, I am confirming that my role PM has a part in it that says that I cannot mention what it says. At least what it is in particular. If anything I will confirm one thing: Metal Sonic was spot on when he said that you guys were probably chasing after a villager with an item.
@Aura Guardian, I posted my read on you and I also mentioned my thoughts on what you said in your posts. If that is not sufficient I'll dig deeper, but for now I think I made a decent point. I honestly am having a rough time putting up reads just because its so strenuous and I usually only have enough time to do so after coming from 10-12 hour shifts at work (mind you this is 6 days a week as well). Now I have one question for you. Since you are pretty good at drawing conclusions a little too easily, would you mind telling us what you think about @Spiffy vs @Celever? Thanks~
@Blackhawk11 2 posts in 4-5 days is not acceptable- if you can't post frequently maybe get a sub?
Not quite what I meant, but I'll take it. Getting tired, so I won't be able to do full reads tonight, sorry. As for some of what you said, though: I'm not really assuming scumteams, just suggesting a possible duo or two and a group whose interactions indicate one of them - but not all - are mafia. And as for btb scum, jalmont village: Ok, yes, I probably was jumping to conclusions a bit there, but btb seemed 1) mafia and 2) trying (badly) to redirect attention, and I think that' sa decent reason. Not enough for the conclusion I made, though, even with some of my hedging of bets or so.
are you really doing this after your big spat with solar vapor over who was more helpful to the village?
actually this is pretty fucking presumptuous of me to say because i'm still not going to be able to contribute much today, guys. i've mostly been posting small reads / logic/analysis based on small numbers of posts because I just don't have the consistent internet access at the moment to make longer posts like I did earlier in the thread (once).
Anyway, I usually try to avoid posts based on intuition or "feel" because it always really annoys me when people post "voting x because this user seems suspicious" without even showing what posts look suspicious so the person can even respond to it. cxinlee is one of these users, but I know from #littlecup that he has a tendency to talk without substance or much thought so his bandwagoning and ceaseless one-liners aren't that surprising to me. What is a little more surprising to me was posts like http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/mario-kart-mafia-noc-day-1.3486298/page-10#post-4782552 that displayed qualities touched on by Blackhawk11--the idea that cxinlee is playing methodically according to guidelines that he either read in an article or learned from a mafia teammate. Cxinlee never struck me as the generally intelligent/competent type to learn about things like 'bussing' on his own, so I can see him parroting what other people have told him. @Blackhawk11 is the post I linked to what you were referring to when talking about cxinlee's odd behavior?
what is a "big spat" opposed to a "small spat"???? i think you took that a bit out of proportion. in other words, yes i am doing this
i don't understand how you can possibly avoid posts based on "feel" considering the fact that it is pretty much all we are doing. there will literally never be a situation in a NOC where you will 100% see someone as scum (village you will because of innocent children - google it folks) if you claim that you avoid such posts then it's pretty much a given that you don't find players either scum or village - as evidenced by your post, you don't definitively say anywhere whether such an action by cxinlee is bad or good.
sorry guys just another useless post
i don't understand how you can possibly avoid posts based on "feel" considering the fact that it is pretty much all we are doing. there will literally never be a situation in a NOC where you will 100% see someone as scum (village you will because of innocent children - google it folks) if you claim that you avoid such posts then it's pretty much a given that you don't find players either scum or village - as evidenced by your post, you don't definitively say anywhere whether such an action by cxinlee is bad or good.
sorry guys just another useless post
back in biz (insert legitimate but no way of actually checking "excuses on why i wasn't posting here")
ok we should clarify what "useless" means since it's getting thrown around a lot and it's meaning is very subjective
-useless to me means "not contributing to the cause of the village" which basically means not 1. providing observations (fine line between summary and this). I think observation is more of something that would not have otherwise been brought up if one didn't point it out 2. analyzing game events (ie I think x is bad because of y) and 3. providing opinions on users, and events. Sum that all up it's basically personal statements over the happenings of the game.
the trick is to use that to find players who directly go against that - i find that most beginner players are easiest to catch since they've got a mindset of where they believe the smallest detail might be attributed to them, meaning they are lynched so in general they refrain from posting, and when they do, it's generally unhelpful in the sense that it provides no real insight into recent happenings or such. mafia are trying are to look like they are contributing / playing when in reality they aren't.
Exhibit A: Snaquaza - don't care if it's just for him, why else would he post it? Oh to show that he's "here." cxinlee is also showing a tendency of using / repeating vague terms and not really offering any insight onto why he believes certain things. i like these two as scum at the moment
admittedly, when you move up a notch to experienced players it gets harder. it's easiest to catch them farther along into the game when you can make more connections. past games help to - not in the sense of playstyle but general attitudes and stuff, stuff that makes a pattern. it's easier to apply this to certain players than others. i'm completely forgetting how i use this , but i guess it's there (maybe solar vapor: because of how i know he has played in the past, it's easier to see him as a straightforward player, without the capacity to change it up). i blame pokemon online and all the douches that inhabit mafia over there (<3 u guys)
oh acklow's last post seemed to be of the "long wall post that lacks content but looks really good" considering that most village players will skim it and not read it word-for-word. i *think* experienced players are more prone to doing that (see: spiffy, AG [but in AG's case that's the norm so it's harder to actually take stuff away in his case])
i categorize "scumread" under "list" which in general means pretty fucking useless unless they are actually thoughtful - again it's waaaaaay too easy for scum to get by doing those (although frankly it seems we are avoiding those so good)
no point telling people to get a sub - that's the hosts job, and if they're failing that you know the game is fucked. good way to look like your doing stuff though :D
spiffy - celever is wasting space and time - those two need to move away from each other and get on w/ the game
sorry another useless post - if i missed someone's question let me know my ppp is messed up fsr
no lynch because i've got 99 problems and being lynched is one
ok we should clarify what "useless" means since it's getting thrown around a lot and it's meaning is very subjective
-useless to me means "not contributing to the cause of the village" which basically means not 1. providing observations (fine line between summary and this). I think observation is more of something that would not have otherwise been brought up if one didn't point it out 2. analyzing game events (ie I think x is bad because of y) and 3. providing opinions on users, and events. Sum that all up it's basically personal statements over the happenings of the game.
the trick is to use that to find players who directly go against that - i find that most beginner players are easiest to catch since they've got a mindset of where they believe the smallest detail might be attributed to them, meaning they are lynched so in general they refrain from posting, and when they do, it's generally unhelpful in the sense that it provides no real insight into recent happenings or such. mafia are trying are to look like they are contributing / playing when in reality they aren't.
Exhibit A: Snaquaza - don't care if it's just for him, why else would he post it? Oh to show that he's "here." cxinlee is also showing a tendency of using / repeating vague terms and not really offering any insight onto why he believes certain things. i like these two as scum at the moment
admittedly, when you move up a notch to experienced players it gets harder. it's easiest to catch them farther along into the game when you can make more connections. past games help to - not in the sense of playstyle but general attitudes and stuff, stuff that makes a pattern. it's easier to apply this to certain players than others. i'm completely forgetting how i use this , but i guess it's there (maybe solar vapor: because of how i know he has played in the past, it's easier to see him as a straightforward player, without the capacity to change it up). i blame pokemon online and all the douches that inhabit mafia over there (<3 u guys)
oh acklow's last post seemed to be of the "long wall post that lacks content but looks really good" considering that most village players will skim it and not read it word-for-word. i *think* experienced players are more prone to doing that (see: spiffy, AG [but in AG's case that's the norm so it's harder to actually take stuff away in his case])
i categorize "scumread" under "list" which in general means pretty fucking useless unless they are actually thoughtful - again it's waaaaaay too easy for scum to get by doing those (although frankly it seems we are avoiding those so good)
no point telling people to get a sub - that's the hosts job, and if they're failing that you know the game is fucked. good way to look like your doing stuff though :D
spiffy - celever is wasting space and time - those two need to move away from each other and get on w/ the game
sorry another useless post - if i missed someone's question let me know my ppp is messed up fsr
no lynch because i've got 99 problems and being lynched is one
@Blackhawk11, this is my first match, im relying on guides on the internet for help. I don't exactly see what's wrong with being methodical with posts, please elaborate.
Blackhawk11
one on one
@Acklow: I reviewed a few of @Snaquaza 's most recent posts, and he really hasn't supplied much information. The way that he posts though, I think he might believe that he is actually contributing well enough, so I won't dock him for that. Way back when, Marquis seemed to call btb out for "cheerleading" rather excessively (the call out was excessive, not the cheerleading). From my point of view now, this seems a little strange (being somewhat harsh for something rather small), but I get the impression that is just Marquis' playing style. Even after combining the two, it's hard to get a decent read, but I'm going to say Null, leaning Town, mostly because I believe that Snaquaza is doing what he thinks is best when he makes reads. In other words, I don't see his rather lacking posts as mafia-"hey I'm active look at me" posts.
@cxinlee: I did elaborate in my post. Being methodical could be the sign of another player giving you tips, suggestions, or a straight up plan for how you should post behind the scenes, which in this case would mean that you're mafia. Of course, I'm willing to accept the internet guides scenario, however, I will still entertain the mafia puppetmaster theory.
@cxinlee: I did elaborate in my post. Being methodical could be the sign of another player giving you tips, suggestions, or a straight up plan for how you should post behind the scenes, which in this case would mean that you're mafia. Of course, I'm willing to accept the internet guides scenario, however, I will still entertain the mafia puppetmaster theory.
Honestly Snaquaza isn't being helpful. His posts are for himself, not the town and he has done pretty much nothing more than those posts for himself, as well as saying multiple times he will get to some reads. Lynch Snaquaza.
Also i am interested as day 1 has gone on for 9/10 irl days now, how long do these days usually last? Obviously I want it to go on for as long as possible so I can get back from holiday and contribute better but still .-..
Also why has no one talked about Jalmont's posts? He hasn't posted for close to week I think and comes back with... that. As said before he was incredibly hypocritical with what he was saying to Solar Vapor earlier in the game and then he basically did what he said Acklow did (and btw I read his posts word-for-word since I'm a terrible scanner :confused:) in doing a big post with nothing in it, whereas Acklow didn't do that.
I will post more later.
Also i am interested as day 1 has gone on for 9/10 irl days now, how long do these days usually last? Obviously I want it to go on for as long as possible so I can get back from holiday and contribute better but still .-..
Also why has no one talked about Jalmont's posts? He hasn't posted for close to week I think and comes back with... that. As said before he was incredibly hypocritical with what he was saying to Solar Vapor earlier in the game and then he basically did what he said Acklow did (and btw I read his posts word-for-word since I'm a terrible scanner :confused:) in doing a big post with nothing in it, whereas Acklow didn't do that.
I will post more later.
Another quick thought is @Acklow has gone from claiming pure vanilla to vanilla with item??? I don't know if anybody else noticed that. He said that he was just a normal vanillager and now he does have a third paragraph and it has something to do with an item, all I can assume is he tried to lie about it before and now he has stuck true the persona he said he had and the truth came out, so @Acklow , why did you lie about being a pure vanilla earlier/why did you lie about having an item now? Or is there something else to do with it, such as another person having an item that was included in your role PM?
With your logic you mentioned me 3 times in the post as far as I could see you made a knock on me twice.
I said which point it was, the point of "Metal Sonic voted a person he thought was vanilla".
You would have wanted him to refute the claims against him, and if not then he would have done anyway...
People think I'm scummy after you have repeated the 3 or something points over and over again, in fact they only started lynching me when I started "avoiding questions" that I didn't know existed and told you that I thought I answered them. You keep saying "why do you resort to this to make me look bad" when my point was I keep bringing new things up that make you seem scummy whereas you are making the same few points. Looking over your posts and reads and the amount of scummy points brought up I am less scummy than other people yet you are still persisting against me.
I didn't just say "none of your business" I said "none of your business right now but you will find out later in the game so if you can stick with me that'd be great". It has to be said for an experienced player you are missing out on a lot of things, other players have read through the lines of that and figured stuff out already which for an experienced player like you it is odd that you would miss that. Well done to the players who can read through the lines though ;).
I don't know why people aren't mentioning Spiffy in a bad light at all. If you look back he has done little to help the town other than provide reads, only when asked, and pick on me. Maybe I'm a scum read for you, but I'm a scum read for like two posts on day 1 (irl) on day 1and then a few of my defenses haven't been "up-to-scratch". Eventually I slipped up by missing some questions that I thought I had answered (I answered one of them so it was weird I didn't see the rest, idfk) and everyone bandwagoned on me over one thing. Spiffy has had flawed logic on several occasions and hasn't at all been active unless I quote or tag him but people are doing nothing against him? And then Jalmont didn't post for days after saying he couldn't post for the weekend (seriously how long are your weekends) and no one lynched him until today (for me)/last night (for most of you). I can't understand the logic of most people in this game.
My scumlist is cxinlee/FireMage, Jalmont, Snaquaza and Spiffy. I have stated reasons for the latter 3 and basically for cxinlee the arguments are too good to ignore. FireMage just would not post at all (I can confirm he has a very tight online schedule along with a job but still) and then he would vote no lynch with incredibly flawed logic. He asked why it was a bad idea to which he got like 5 responses yet he still kept it on no lynch until he said "I find these people scummy" who were basically the scum targets at the time. cxinlee is better than FireMage (hard to be worse) but he is using internet guides?? I did some research and the way he plays is nothing like the internet guides I looked at. I'm very much convinced that there is someone instructing him behind the scenes. On top of that his posts aren't even that helpful to the town. His posts are methodical enough to have someone telling him what to do but not to help the town that much, basically to make him look like a valuable town member while not really doing anything so he would be a big scumread to me.
Acklow
I am always tired. Don't bother me.
I never lied about being pure vanilla. Being pure vanilla is the role. No abilities. The item is just a tag that is added to the role. Mind you I did mention it earlier without you prodding me.
Acklow
I am always tired. Don't bother me.
And here is your evidence.
Hmmm.... that's interesting. I play Mario Kart quite a lot (actually when i got the alert I put down Mario kart DS :p) so I know a lot about the items (well yes i could look on mario wiki but what's the fun in that). I think Acklow here could be very important... but I'm not sure.
My theories:
Acklow has the golden mushroom.
Look at the flavour, the Bowser Boys need the Golden Mushroom, so acklow could be some kind of life vest where he has to be attempted to be killed twice but if he does die the Bowser Boys get a huge advantage or something.
There are 3 items in the game, the green, red and blue shells and Acklow has one of them.
Maybe the Mario Crew would get some kind of win condition if all of the shells become uncovered?
He has Petey Pirhana's/King Boo's special item from Mario kart: Double Dash.
He can acquire the Golden Mushroom from the Bowser Boys if they get it or steal any other item in the game, but then I would say this is the least likely since a basic knowledge of mario would put King boo on the Bowser Boys. I say a basic knowledge since King boo doesn't actually like Bowser, Big Boo does but I don't know where Eagle4 is at with his mario knowledge.
I think that the three shells would be the most likely but I also like the idea of the Golden mushroom, the third idea was just an afterthought really.
My theories:
Acklow has the golden mushroom.
Look at the flavour, the Bowser Boys need the Golden Mushroom, so acklow could be some kind of life vest where he has to be attempted to be killed twice but if he does die the Bowser Boys get a huge advantage or something.
There are 3 items in the game, the green, red and blue shells and Acklow has one of them.
Maybe the Mario Crew would get some kind of win condition if all of the shells become uncovered?
He has Petey Pirhana's/King Boo's special item from Mario kart: Double Dash.
He can acquire the Golden Mushroom from the Bowser Boys if they get it or steal any other item in the game, but then I would say this is the least likely since a basic knowledge of mario would put King boo on the Bowser Boys. I say a basic knowledge since King boo doesn't actually like Bowser, Big Boo does but I don't know where Eagle4 is at with his mario knowledge.
I think that the three shells would be the most likely but I also like the idea of the Golden mushroom, the third idea was just an afterthought really.