Cresselia has a high chance of surviving Mega Heracross's super effective STAB Pin Missile... Mother of God. That is BULK. Definitely should be somewhere on the list, not sure where since I don't have much experience with it
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)
- Thread starter alexwolf
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Not entirely true. Modest Mega Gengar's Hex has a guaranteed OHKO on a statused Cresselia with that spread, but that shrinks to 6.3% OHKO on 252/252 and no OHKO on 252/252+, so Mega Heracross is still the only pokemon that has a chance to OHKO a Cresselia with a disagreeable EV spread.
M8 I dont know if you've noticed but Mega-Gengar is banned so the fact that it OHKOes Cress is irrelevant. Plus Hex is very situational and usually not ran
Cresselia, oh how crazy you are. With such bulk, you think it would be so high but it really isn't.
We all know Cresselia's flaws. Poor offensive pressure, Psychic typing, hard walled by the premier Dark type Tyranitar with his Sand Stream, and has slightly less reliable recovey than some others with only 8 PP to use. So how high should we rank this?
This thing is one of the silliest Pokemon I've ever fought. Dual Screen, Lunar Dance shenanigans, and a plethora of crap to abuse, it is never quite sure how this thing will be against you. You are sadly straddled with your STAB being immune to that silly Dark typing, yet you get moonblast so alls well (if you want to complain bout no secondary typing, take it the theorymon ladder or so). Truthfully I know its flaws, but I'm wondering if things have changed enough to make it B- ranking.
Obviously the weather nerf is great as its now not guaranteed to be 25% recovery when Hippowdon or Tyranitar are out, and a new move to hit some foes better is great, but there is bad thing that must be addressed which is the prevalence of Ghost and Dark attacks. You will be hard pressed to not find Knock Off on teams, Aegislash being the vixen he is hitting both physically and specially, Greninja, Bisharp, Crawdaunt, there are just so many threats that have risen that Cress must now account for, I doubt that it can go higher than the B Ranks, with b- seeming right.
Course I might just be gasping at air here, but that's how I see things. B- seems fine for me but id be hard pressed for higher.
We all know Cresselia's flaws. Poor offensive pressure, Psychic typing, hard walled by the premier Dark type Tyranitar with his Sand Stream, and has slightly less reliable recovey than some others with only 8 PP to use. So how high should we rank this?
This thing is one of the silliest Pokemon I've ever fought. Dual Screen, Lunar Dance shenanigans, and a plethora of crap to abuse, it is never quite sure how this thing will be against you. You are sadly straddled with your STAB being immune to that silly Dark typing, yet you get moonblast so alls well (if you want to complain bout no secondary typing, take it the theorymon ladder or so). Truthfully I know its flaws, but I'm wondering if things have changed enough to make it B- ranking.
Obviously the weather nerf is great as its now not guaranteed to be 25% recovery when Hippowdon or Tyranitar are out, and a new move to hit some foes better is great, but there is bad thing that must be addressed which is the prevalence of Ghost and Dark attacks. You will be hard pressed to not find Knock Off on teams, Aegislash being the vixen he is hitting both physically and specially, Greninja, Bisharp, Crawdaunt, there are just so many threats that have risen that Cress must now account for, I doubt that it can go higher than the B Ranks, with b- seeming right.
Course I might just be gasping at air here, but that's how I see things. B- seems fine for me but id be hard pressed for higher.
Very summarized rankings with short explanationI (obviously) with B- for Cress :)
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At this point, there are still some viable pokemon with analyses that need to/should be ranked:
Unless something currently is in a completely wrong position, I think it's best to rank the above 14 pokemon first. Four of them also are required to be ranked. I put them in the rough order of how I think they should be ranked (highest = B), but it'd be best if others could elaborate!
Hydreigon shouldn't be any higher than B because well Fairies
I can't make a proper decision on Gothitelle as I haven't used it at all personally
Amoongus is a fucking asshole. However in OU he's just kinda Brave Bird fodder for Tflame. Maybe C/C-
I agree with the above Cress discussion personally
Haxorus is significantly debuffed from last gen because Outrage isn't a click to win button for him anymore. However he still nukes a fair portion of OU. C+, maybe B- material
Zoroark is pretty much king Gimmick, but he does have a niche, so D or C-
Umbreon is pretty much outclassed no matter how you look at him. Unviable imo
Barbaracle is a weird one. Hits like a fucking truck, but doesn't have very many moves to actually hit (because >100 = 50 remember this is pokemon) Maybe D/C-
Reuni is pretty much exclusive to Trick Room, but great within it, so C/C-
Durant is a very sp00ky physical sweeper, plus he can do the truant entrainment thing, so C/C+
Shuckle is 2bluk5me and has sticky web. Plus Power Trick is always fun to use. C/C+
Haven't tried Hawlucha in this meta so can't say anything for it.
Omastar is one of my personal favorite rain sweepers, with +2 Hydro pump in rain pretty much killing anything non-immune. Slow as fuck though. C+
Gorebyss is only good for Smash Pass which can be stopped quite easily so D/C-
Haxorus deserves more credit than its given as Mold Breaker makes it one of the best stallbreakers with SD in the meta as it doesn't give a shit about unaware cores and has very nice speed for beating stall. As a DD-sweeper being able to break multiscale, levitate and again unaware are really excellent. Haxorus isn't countered by fairies either as it can use poison jab to break through. Haxorus still has trouble with Gliscor, Skarmory and the like and has pretty poor bulk but there are actually reasons to use him over Dragonite and Charizard X as he has different counters as such he should be B- actually.
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 306-360 (86.4 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
I wouldn't say Gliscor is a huge problem. But yes, Skarmory is the bane of its existence. I feel B- would be appropriate for it, as Mold Breaker is incredibly useful in defeating stall.
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 390-460 (87.8 - 103.6%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO
Jebus Christ!
I (obviously) with B- for Cress :)
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Trevenant, Kyurem, and Azelf both have to be dropped to D rank, as their analyses were rejected.
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At this point, there are still some viable pokemon with analyses that need to/should be ranked:
Unless something currently is in a completely wrong position, I think it's best to rank the above 14 pokemon first. Four of them also are required to be ranked. I put them in the rough order of how I think they should be ranked (highest = B), but it'd be best if others could elaborate!
Im still in the mood for Tangrowth...but eh, i'll take what I can get.
Hydreigon: I don't know HOW MANY TIMES WE HAVE TO BRING IT UP FOR IT TO BE RANKED, but due to my prior posts, B- to C ranking is likely or preferable.
Amoonguss: Will have a slightly hard time distinguishing itself from Venu AND Tangrowth (B rank!) so C- or so I believe.
Haxorus: Same situation as Hydreigon, but must be ranked lower than Salamence I believe due to him having issues with not being able to hit from both sides of the spectrum well (course his attack is damn good enough) and slightly sub par speed compared to his competition. Further details I think can be found here:
The others do not really interest me much, but some do need to be ranked, others....idk, yalls opinion. See some D material there though more than anything.
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The reason that Haxorus>Salamence is because of his ability to... literally his ability. You don't see Salamance breaking unaware and wrecking counters to other DD-sweepers. This is the reason why Haxorus is always the wing-man in double dragon teams as despite his seeming similarities to other DD sweepers such as Dragonite and Zard X, Haxorus beats lots of their counters with Mold Breaker and the ones he does not break he severely cripples such as Gliscor. Base 97 speed isn't bad at all most Dragon Dancers: Dragonite, Mega T-tar and Gyarados sit around the base 70-80 range so on this point Haxorus is actually better and can afford to invest more into bulk. Haxorus is a really solid physical wallbreaker with a Swords Dance set despite his low bulk. Double Dance is still a viable opitons with things such as taunt/encore support to ensure free turns. Since Haxorus is already so powerful it can afford to carry a lum berry instead of life orb thus negating burns. Haxorus is definately not worse than Salamence as Salamence has no dual stab unless you're counting Aerial Ace.
Not wanting to post a tl;dr because most points have already been said but for the 14 Pokemon above, I guess I can just post the rank it seems they should be in since I'll most likely end up getting 100 people disagreeing no matter what.
Hydreigon: B
Gothitelle: C
Amoonguss: C-
CressIHateThisThingSoMuch: F-
Haxorus: B-/C+
Zoroark: C
Umbreon: C
Barbaracle: C
Reuniclus: B+
Durant: B-
Shuckle: kinda niche so tough to say, C?
Hawlucha: lol this thing is so much worse then it was in UU, C-
Omastar: C
Gorebyss: C
Fastest way to start discussion that isn't about you know who
Feel free to quote any one of those to reply/ask why I think they should be there (especially since I think there are still some Pokemon you missed so I might check)
Hydreigon: B
Gothitelle: C
Amoonguss: C-
CressIHateThisThingSoMuch: F-
B+/C-
Zoroark: C
Umbreon: C
Barbaracle: C
Reuniclus: B+
Durant: B-
Shuckle: kinda niche so tough to say, C?
Hawlucha: lol this thing is so much worse then it was in UU, C-
Omastar: C
Gorebyss: C
Fastest way to start discussion that isn't about you know who
Florges/Donphan/Arcanine
Feel free to quote any one of those to reply/ask why I think they should be there (especially since I think there are still some Pokemon you missed so I might check)
Shuckle: if we absolutely need to rank Shuckle, I'd do no more than D. Shuckle can basically do nothing except Sticky Web, Knock off items, Encore, and take hits. But Sticky Web is realistically the only reason to use Shuckle, and it's a pretty mediocre move.
On a related note, can we please drop Galvantula eventually?
On a related note, can we please drop Galvantula eventually?
If you read my post, you noticed I never said Salamence uses his Flying type STAB unless we are back in Gen 3...
And I understand why he can outclass Salamence easy and vice versa. I'm stating my opinion on how I saw similar Dragon Dancers and compared them to him and just the other dragons in general. They may not be the best idea, but that's how I saw it. Yes, Haxorus makes a great double dragon partner as he can break their counters with his mighty axe face, but by himself? Idk, but again, I only said I believe below Salamence, and that seems like C to me.
Hydreigon - why the hell is this not ranked yet? I mean, sure fairies destroy it, but it still hits like a truck. That has three heads. And is on fire. B / B-
Gothitelle - probably the best trapper (unlike Wobb, it can trap multiple things in one battle and has Trick to ruin things it can't kill). It's still really weak / slow depending on whether you go with Scarf or Specs, but it does its job effectively, and it's a pretty impressive job. B / B- / C+
Amoongus - great, but highly outlassed by Megasaur. It probably has enough niches (Regenerator, 100% accurate sleep, no mega slot) to be ranked, though. C+ / C
Zoroark - generally useful only once per match, if that (otherwise you'd be better off with any other speedy attacker). I wouldn't even bother ranking him, but I guess he could fit in C-
I know next to nothing about the rest of these, although I've been meaning to try out Omastar. I've never seen an effective Umbreon, but I suspect that most of my experiences with it come from eeveelution teams, so I really shouldn't judge it based on that (and Foul Play is definitely obnoxious).
Acupressure Shuckle for A
Gothitelle - probably the best trapper (unlike Wobb, it can trap multiple things in one battle and has Trick to ruin things it can't kill). It's still really weak / slow depending on whether you go with Scarf or Specs, but it does its job effectively, and it's a pretty impressive job. B / B- / C+
Amoongus - great, but highly outlassed by Megasaur. It probably has enough niches (Regenerator, 100% accurate sleep, no mega slot) to be ranked, though. C+ / C
Zoroark - generally useful only once per match, if that (otherwise you'd be better off with any other speedy attacker). I wouldn't even bother ranking him, but I guess he could fit in C-
I know next to nothing about the rest of these, although I've been meaning to try out Omastar. I've never seen an effective Umbreon, but I suspect that most of my experiences with it come from eeveelution teams, so I really shouldn't judge it based on that (and Foul Play is definitely obnoxious).
going to give my thoughts on S and A+, and then anything relevant that needs to move
I would much rather see mega formes and the pokemon themselves depicted as a single threat on this list. Breaking zard into two formes does not reflect its versatility at all. Furhter still I see no reason for Scizor to be A- while mega is A+. If you see a Scizor it can be mega SD which is A+ worthy or CB which is A-. If you see Keldeo it could be specs which is A+ worthy or choice band which is C- worthy. Why are formes separated, it makes no sense to me.
Anyways the summation of these changes I propose under the current classifications are
Y-zard -> A+
Bisharp -> S
Heatran -> A
Kyube -> A
Latias -> A-
Manaphy -> A-
Mega Gard -> A-
Sylveon -> B
Mega Blast -> B-
Mega Absol -> B+
Mega Banette -> C+
Also, can Rotom-C, Nidoking and the entire D-rank (but Banette) be abolished? None of them have a place in this meta whatsoever. Nidoking is completely outclassed by Lando and Rotom-C by Wishy Washy and EZ Bake. Whimsicott could stand to move to C- in that case, it has a niche I guess.
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.
Aegislash - obvious, checks nearly anything, can act as a wall breaker, walls tons of shit, can sweep, always incredibly powerful and useful
Charizard (Mega-Y) - I dont agree with Charizard Y specifically here, I would prefer to see both charizards combined into one rank as having the formes separate does not reflect the unpredictableness of zard. I have switched lando-t into many zards thinking it will be xzard only to die to Fire Blast, and LAtios to Xzard's dclaw. Zard-Y itself faces issues such as not being able to do anything to Chansey outside of suicidal Flare Blitzing, a massive SR weak, and common checks in offensive teams like Latias/Latios that prevent it from tearing up both offense and defense. A+ if both zards are not combined.
Charizard (Mega-X) - incredibly threatening sweeper, carry a check to +1 zard or youre losing, S-rank
Deoxys-S - This to me is more of an A+ rank threat than S rank, however I don't feel that strongly. Its main flaw is its frailty meaning it can effectively deal with opposing priority, and a number of good pokes like AEgis, Mawile, Bisharp, etc cause it a lot of trouble. Screens are powerful, though not S-rank worthy and its ability to set hazards is eclipsed by Deo-D who doesnt fall to a simple attack + priority that limits it to just SR.
Thundurus-I - Basically flawless other than its average at best defenses. Great speed tier, amazing utility, good wall breaker. Thundy has it all.
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time
A+ Rank
Azumarill - Azumarill's only real flaw is bad speed. Amazing typing offensively and defensively and power with all the tools it needs in its movepool. A+ Rank for sure.
Bisharp - Bisharp is a friend. Incredibly potent STAB combination that forces every team to run a good Dark-type resist, most threatening Defiant user, can pursuit trap aegis+latios without much trouble, Very potent wall breaker, useful resistances, one of the most powerful priority attacks in OU. Bisharp is something I would consider on the cusp of S-rank for its amazing offensive presence, and utility, however its poor speed and the fact that there are a number of good checks/counters keeps it out of S
Deoxys-D - Another Pokemon on the verge of S-rank simply because hazards and paralysis are incredibly powerful and its nearly impossible to stop from doing its job. Deo-D is just so hard to deal with outside specific counters and gives teams large advantages early with hazards.
Garchomp - Garchomp is in the same boat as Thundurus being a nearly flawless Pokemon but trading an amazing speed tier for an only good one and better bulk. Chomper is a very good breaker, revenge killer, or Stealth Rock user giving it a lot of options, and it does them all well. The only reason Chomper has more than enough natural checks/counters in the meta to not achieve S-rank however.
Greninja - Greninja is a specialist in anti offense. Protean is a dream ability as it turns countless 2HKOS into OHKOs, such as easily breezing through multiscale Dnite, Latios, Keldeo, etc and such with the right coverage move that would in normal circumstances do shit damage due to lack of STAB. Couple this with blazing speed and Greninja can outright beat countless offensive Pokemon. Again Greninja has too much flaws to break into S-rank having poor bulk, and not being a great wall breaker without the right match up, as well having some natural switch ins in the meta
Gyarados (Mega) - Gyarados is such a threat to offensive teams and defensive teams alike. Its bulk and triple typing and dual ability let it set up so easily, and its stupid high attack lets it plow through all kinds of shit without even trying. With Mold Breaker it tells countless annoying abilities to fuck off. Only held back from S-rank due to again having a fair number of C&C existing in the meta such as Keldeo and Ferrothorn
Heatran - In the Talonflame / Genesect meta Heatran was king. Unfortunately one of these is now banned and the other has seen a rather dramatic drop in usage. If you look through the entire S and A+ rank Heatran struggles a bit. Even the Pokemon that is ought to be quite good against have adapted. Aegislash has a tough time against Tran still, and beating AEgislash is important however Scizor much more commonly carries Knock Off which does pretty good damage to Tran and denies it leftovers. Mega Scizor is also faster so it finds it much easier to outspeed defensive Heatran and hit it with a Superpower which is quite often runs, seeing as it counters Bisharp with it. Mega Mawile now runs maximal speed in a lot of cases and +2 Knock Off really stings Heatran, or just Knock Off on the switch. Even Latios can be seen running EQ sometimes. This being said Heatran is adaptable and speed creeping scizors/mawile should be encouraged, the classic sdef spread is still widely used but it may be true Phys Def Heatran could help it adapt to the meta. Once again I think Heatran is still a good Pokemon, but I feel as if it right now it is better placed in A-rank.
Keldeo - Keldeo is a very useful Poke in this meta being able to consistently counter Bisharp. Water offensively is pretty good and secret sword complements Hydro Pump pretty well getting solid neutral coverage and easily destroying Chansey. High in defensive and offensive ability Keldeo only falls short on account of being pretty easy to wall by Venu and stuff.
Kyurem-B - Kyube is excellent at deconstructing a bunch of cores such as Rotom / Lando or Venu / Heatran, among other defensive staples. Further still it isnt slow and has stupidly high bulk. However its shortcomings of being unable to get past Chansey without sacrificing itself basically, its need for a Life ORb to properly wall breaker coupled with an SR weak, on top of being walled pretty hard by Ferrothorn, MEga Scizor, and defensive Tyranitar without obscure coverage moves are pretty glaring flaws for Kyube. Despite Kyube's abilities that are impressive, it is not as consistent or threatening as its fellow A+ Rank pokes and should be downgraded to A-rank
Landorus-I - LAndorus-I is rather frightening and another Pokemon that is close to flawless. Solid defenses, solid speed tier, good offenses, Lando's stats speak for themselves. But its ability Sheer Force is what makes it exceptional. Its ability to wall break with Calm Mind or an all out attacking set is nearly unparalleled, few true counters exist. With its good bulk and power Rock Polish is also very threatening as many offensive teams are unprepared for it. To further solidify its impressiveness it is a great Stealth Rock user, not much can spin/defog on it, and it forces a lot of switches with its offensive presence. Lando has a fair number of checks in the meta and a few good switch ins, I am undecided if it should remain A+ or move up to S.
Mawile (Mega) - Mawile is a third threat I feel as if is worthy of S-rank. Its defenses are impressive with HP investment and solid without, and being backed by intimidate is also useful. It has perhaps the best defensive typing in the game. Mawile earns many free turns on a lot of pokemon such as Latios, Scarf Ttar, Mandibuzz, among others thanks to its typing, and it also resists a lot of priority moves. With these free turns Mawile lets loose its absurdly powerful Play Roughs. Mawile is just so fucking strng its impossible to handle for offensive teams that give it any room to breathe, and unprepared defensive teams dont stand a chance. Its only real flaw is poor speed which is mitigated by Sucker Punch, which is what would probably hold it back from S-rank
Pinsir (Mega) - Pinsir is stupidly strong but stupidly predictable, weak to SR and a victim of the number of good checks and counters that exist in this meta.
Scizor (Mega) - Mega Scizor is something that is a bit match up dependent, however against the right match up it just destroys everything, as its colossal bulk and great typing let it set up on fucking everything. AEgislash, Gliscor, Kyurem-B, Bisharp. It can fucking set up on Bisharp. Mega Scizor is also pretty good at some utilities. Too bad fire types exist or Scizor would be SSS+
Talonflame - Talonflame is a poke with massive flaws offset by even more massive merits. It has the most powerful priority move in the game bar none. It has awesome dual STAB, boosting moves, healing, utility moves. Even if its stats are mediocre outside speed it can specialize and be effective. CB brave bird is such a terror all offensive teams have to carry a good check. Unfortunately for Talons that check is stealth rock. Its 4x rocks weak coupled with its only good STAB necessitating massive recoil Talonflame just isn't S-rank worthy. Solid A+ due to its unparalleled abilities, but too many flaws to be S.
Tyranitar (Mega) - lol this thing has the highest defensive stats in OU and its used as a sweeper. I mean, its basically impossible to kill, let alone revenge kill. Not to mention its running off like base 165 attack. Mega TTar is a god damn monster only hold back by natural checks and counters like beefy fighting types and Ferrothorn. Solid A+.
Venusaur (Mega) - Walls so much shit and leech seed hassles anything that bothers it. It has the raw bulk, movepool, and typing to take on lots of huge threats including but not limited to Mawile, AEgislash, Azumarill, Thundurus, Keldeo, Manaphy, MEga Gyarados, and other important pokes. It really isnt as "Easy to wear down" as people say, though it does wish it had lefties.
A Rank
Latias - Latias is just worse than LAtios. Its defenses arent helpful enough to compensate for the power drop. It has healing wish over latios and thats about it. A-
Manaphy - Manaphy is medicore as hell. It isnt that effective against offense or defense. Its not that tough to wall or check but is still pretty threatening to the right team and can certainly make a mess if it gets a free turn to boost. A-
B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.
B+ Rank
Gardevoir (Mega) - A- worthy, it has terrible physical bulk but its amazing power, special bulk, solid speed and good offensive/utility movepool make it hard to deal with for defensive teams and its typing gives it some switch in opportunities. Also is waifu.
Sylveon - Sylveon is solid, its typing is very good and all but its a bit do nothing and gives up a lot of momentum. Steel types have their way with it, and because it needs to run phys def to not keel over to Latios' Psyshock or any physical attack it isnt super specially bulky so it needs to heal itself a lot to stay healthy. Becuase of this it gives up a lot of free turns and just isn't very powerful. B Rank threat.
B Rank
Blastoise (Mega) - Blastoise is ok, but the opportunity cost of using your mega for a spinner is really high, and add in the fact that mega blast is really just OK and you have something fiercly mediocre. It gets walled pretty bad by Azumarill, its easily worn down, and pretty slow so it often fails to leave a meaningful impression on the opposing team. ITs Dark Pulse renders it impossible to spin block but the demand for such a thing is not high enough to warrant B rank. B- at best.
B- Rank
Absol (Mega) - Absol is super fast and has great priority, as well as offensive movepool and offensive stats. Its immunity to status moves helps it a lot too. Really underrated threat in my opinion. B+ Rank imo, its only help back by its hilariously bad defenses.
D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current OU metagame, but have very noticable flaws that make them more trouble then they're worth the majority of the time.
Banette (Mega) - Banette is basically the best revenge killer in the game, it protects teams from nearly all defensive and offensive boosters. If it didnt take a mega slot it would be three times as good, but it does. Regardless D-rank is a joke and it deserves to be bumped up to C+. A simple set with protect / knock off / destiny bond / taunt can force your opponent to lose their best sweeper or shuffle around eating knock offs until they eventually have to lose something to Destiny Bond. Banette is effective in OU.
I would much rather see mega formes and the pokemon themselves depicted as a single threat on this list. Breaking zard into two formes does not reflect its versatility at all. Furhter still I see no reason for Scizor to be A- while mega is A+. If you see a Scizor it can be mega SD which is A+ worthy or CB which is A-. If you see Keldeo it could be specs which is A+ worthy or choice band which is C- worthy. Why are formes separated, it makes no sense to me.
Anyways the summation of these changes I propose under the current classifications are
Y-zard -> A+
Bisharp -> S
Heatran -> A
Kyube -> A
Latias -> A-
Manaphy -> A-
Mega Gard -> A-
Sylveon -> B
Mega Blast -> B-
Mega Absol -> B+
Mega Banette -> C+
Also, can Rotom-C, Nidoking and the entire D-rank (but Banette) be abolished? None of them have a place in this meta whatsoever. Nidoking is completely outclassed by Lando and Rotom-C by Wishy Washy and EZ Bake. Whimsicott could stand to move to C- in that case, it has a niche I guess.
Hydreigon: B - Hydreigon would be A+ if it had defog and 110 speed. heh. Yeah this poke is cool, and has some nice defensive merits. It can take on some big threats like Aegis or the right moveset of other threats like Lando pretty well. Also a rotom-W counter if your team needs that. It hits pretty hard and isnt slow as shit. Fairies ruin it from being a true wallbreaker, but its still pretty nifty.
Gothitelle: C+ - Basically deadweight against good offense, but it can really go to work against defense/balanced. Easy hotfix to a stall weakness. Too many flaws to be much better than this however.
Amoonguss: C - Spore, Regenerator, and can actually fight Azumarill and Keldeo. Useful traits but its easy as hell to wall or kill with the right poke. Foul Play prevents it from being total set up bait, though
Cress: C - The fact that it has thunder wave makes it viable, but other than that it rarely causes serious damage. If you bite your tongue and take the twave you can set up on it with mawile, scizor, pinsir, bisharp, etc and break it down or break something down. So yeah despite amazing defenses it is set up bait and has bad typing.
Haxorus: B- - Mold Breaker + SD is a real niche. It might be kinda bad but its only kinda bad. Right at home B-.
Umbreon: C - Sylveon but worse typing. It's useful and hard to kill for stuff that cant hit it SE or boost past it. But ultimately its not that hard for a lot of top threats, mostly fighting and fairy types to dispose of it
Barbaracle: C - Underrated and threatening, and its actually better than CLoyster because it can beat AEgislash.
Reuniclus: C+ - Bisharp, AEgis, Mawile give it such a hard time that it struggles to be effective. Clefable makes defensive CM outdated. OTR is still pretty threatening to the right match up though.
Durant: B- - Fast, has coverage and hits like an artillery salvo. Lack of sdef and poor accuracy holds it back sadly.
Shuckle: C - Sticky Web is powerful and encore + mental herb + bulk prevents the opponent from doing all that much about it, but other than rocks its basically just dead weight and can still be exploited by the right team.
Hawlucha: C- - lol.
Gorebyss: C - Smash pass is powerful, but gorebyss is terrible.
Gothitelle: C+ - Basically deadweight against good offense, but it can really go to work against defense/balanced. Easy hotfix to a stall weakness. Too many flaws to be much better than this however.
Amoonguss: C - Spore, Regenerator, and can actually fight Azumarill and Keldeo. Useful traits but its easy as hell to wall or kill with the right poke. Foul Play prevents it from being total set up bait, though
Cress: C - The fact that it has thunder wave makes it viable, but other than that it rarely causes serious damage. If you bite your tongue and take the twave you can set up on it with mawile, scizor, pinsir, bisharp, etc and break it down or break something down. So yeah despite amazing defenses it is set up bait and has bad typing.
Haxorus: B- - Mold Breaker + SD is a real niche. It might be kinda bad but its only kinda bad. Right at home B-.
Umbreon: C - Sylveon but worse typing. It's useful and hard to kill for stuff that cant hit it SE or boost past it. But ultimately its not that hard for a lot of top threats, mostly fighting and fairy types to dispose of it
Barbaracle: C - Underrated and threatening, and its actually better than CLoyster because it can beat AEgislash.
Reuniclus: C+ - Bisharp, AEgis, Mawile give it such a hard time that it struggles to be effective. Clefable makes defensive CM outdated. OTR is still pretty threatening to the right match up though.
Durant: B- - Fast, has coverage and hits like an artillery salvo. Lack of sdef and poor accuracy holds it back sadly.
Shuckle: C - Sticky Web is powerful and encore + mental herb + bulk prevents the opponent from doing all that much about it, but other than rocks its basically just dead weight and can still be exploited by the right team.
Hawlucha: C- - lol.
Gorebyss: C - Smash pass is powerful, but gorebyss is terrible.
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*Insert generic "it would be A+ if it was guarenteed to be it" arguement* By that logic, wouldn't regular Charizard be S-Rank? Anyways, 100% agree
Bisharp for S is something I've been meaning to push for. Seconded
Heatran is just way too anti-meta right now, as it hard walls some of the tiers top threats. Good in A+ imo but i could be convinced otherwise
Kyube is meh. Seconding A
Latias is probably the second best defogger (Mandibuzz) in the tier and still carries offensive presence. Good in A
Manaphy would be one of the tiers best if not for its awkward speed tier. Seconding A-
Mega Gard carries some huge offensive potential and likes outright sweeping teams. Seconding A-
Sylveon does nothing Chansey or Blissey do better with the exception of a offensive cleric set. That job doesn't really warrant anything above B- imo
*Edit* I'm stupid and thought Sylveon was B- not B+. Definitely agree
Havent tried Mega Stoise in OU so cant say much
Mega absol, while great offensively, dies to literally anything thrown at it. Good where its at.
Banette is awful tbh
Bisharp for S is something I've been meaning to push for. Seconded
Heatran is just way too anti-meta right now, as it hard walls some of the tiers top threats. Good in A+ imo but i could be convinced otherwise
Kyube is meh. Seconding A
Latias is probably the second best defogger (Mandibuzz) in the tier and still carries offensive presence. Good in A
Manaphy would be one of the tiers best if not for its awkward speed tier. Seconding A-
Mega Gard carries some huge offensive potential and likes outright sweeping teams. Seconding A-
*Edit* I'm stupid and thought Sylveon was B- not B+. Definitely agree
Havent tried Mega Stoise in OU so cant say much
Mega absol, while great offensively, dies to literally anything thrown at it. Good where its at.
Banette is awful tbh
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I have to say I wholeheartedly disagree on Nidoking being completely outclassed by Landorus. First off, from a defensive point of view, Nidoking retains his resistance to SR, and can absorb T-Spikes coming to field. Furthermore, many of the best Pokemon in OU are half-Flying, so Nidoking is a good choice for teams who don't like to pack their teams full of Flying-types.
Even though Lando is faster and has a higher Sp.A, Nidoking has much better coverage moves. STAB Sludge Wave is nice, and with options like Ice Beam, Flamethrower and Thunderbolt, you hit for supereffective damage much easier than Lando.
Edit: f*ng phone
Even though Speed is an issue, Nidoking can effectively wear a Scarf, causing problems for the opposing team. As a more niche option, Nidoking also benefits greatly from Tailwind-support, much better than Lando does. Even though Nidoking's niches are not overwhelming, he is still the second best specially orientated Ground-type, whose niches are just relevant enough to keep him as a relevant Pokemon in Ou. Hence ranking of C-
Even though Lando is faster and has a higher Sp.A, Nidoking has much better coverage moves. STAB Sludge Wave is nice, and with options like Ice Beam, Flamethrower and Thunderbolt, you hit for supereffective damage much easier than Lando.
Edit: f*ng phone
Even though Speed is an issue, Nidoking can effectively wear a Scarf, causing problems for the opposing team. As a more niche option, Nidoking also benefits greatly from Tailwind-support, much better than Lando does. Even though Nidoking's niches are not overwhelming, he is still the second best specially orientated Ground-type, whose niches are just relevant enough to keep him as a relevant Pokemon in Ou. Hence ranking of C-
Why would Charizard Y be fighting one of the Latis???
Also, if you are running Dragon pulse, that means your forgoing roost. Good luck if your defogger is dead.
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Why are we still discussing Char Y going to A+ or just anything? I mean, its getting a little ridiculous now :I
EDIT: Sorry, not ridiculous, but its beating a dead horse.
Yes
I don't think so. They are both so anti-meta and good right now.
Generally outclassed by latios. I'd agree with A- or B+, but its bulk is worth it for some teams.
The only one I really disagree with. Its Tail Glow set and Calm Mind sets are very good at the moment and only need a little support. The same as the other A ranks, to be honest.
Yes! It is so good right now, and is able to handle almost everything right now with its STABs
I may agree, I'm not sure. Its physical bulk is a bit lacking, but its special bulk and power are phenomenal.
Why? It's certainly the best spinner, the only downside is that it requires a mega slot. It seems like B material
Yes. It's very powerful and underrated.
The definition of underrated. Deserves C+ by how disrupting priority Disable, Destiny Bond, Will-o-wisp, and thunderwave are. Shame it can't run them all, but it's still good.
Nidoking? Maybe. It does seem to be outclassed by Landorus, but it does have Dual STAB + better coverage. It is a lot frailer, less powerful, and slower.
Rotom-C? It beats and can burn Excadrill. That seems like a D worthy niche.
Hazard control? They both have niches, and can fit on some teams that the others cannot. I think D is fine.
Honchkrow? Totally underrated. Scarf sets makes an excellent powerful cleaner.
Jellicent? No niche that I see, other than always beating Keldeo. Either D or unranked, to be honest.
Jirachi? Outclassed by Togekiss. I think it should be removed.
Machamp + Mawile? Need to go.
Mr. Mime? Baton Pass is a tough strategy to beat, and Mime is one of the 3 reasons for this. It should stay.
Trevanent? Gotta go.
Whimsicott? Definitely needs to go up. Priority leech seed, encore, sun, and memento are so useful. I see C rank, to be honest.
Scarf set is also niche. I agree.
I'd push for B-. It can handle Chansey, Mega Venusaur, Heatran, P2, Scizor, Ferrothron, Conkeldurr, Quagsire, Rotom-W, and Gyarados extremely well, depending on its moveset. Its main perks are always making Chansey, P2, Conk, and Mega Venusaur deadweight on stall teams, while also being able to trick specs to other non stall pokemon, like Aegislash and Mandibuzz. B-.
Agree
It has Twave + lunar dance, which absolutely prevent it from being setup fodder. Also, thanks to having an immunity, its typing is actually decent, unlike other psychic types. I'd see C+ or B-.
Yes
If it's so funny, why not D? :P
It only has one niche, why not D?
Milotic is a dangerous sweeper when played correctly, but needs one of the following to be effective 1) Intimidate 2) Defog 3) Sticky Web 4) Luck. It has a lot of chances to be powerful, but its reliance on the other team to do so makes me think C is appropriate.
Tornadus-I is a fantastic rain setter for the all powerful rain teams, and packs quite a punch with Hurricanes off of 125 Special attack. However, rain setting is its only niche. But, that doesn't stop Pokemon like Poli and Kabutops from being high ranked. What's a possible deal breaker for Tornadus-I is than with it you cannot use Tornadus-T, who is a phenomenal Rain Sweeper and Pivot. This is why I feel C+ suits it well.
Exploud hits like a monster, but is reliant on Specs. It has okayish bulk and terrible speed, which is a letdown. C rank seems appropriate.
PS: The list of unranked Pokemon is:
The support and offense coming from Togekiss deserves much more than C+, and I think starting by raising it back to B- is a good thing to do.
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I've been meaning to ask this. How can Char Y be anything less than S when it has a high chance of totally screwing the other other team over by not being Char X? We all know how they have different counters and such.
That's why I (still) feel like Mega Pokemon and their base forms should be combined. If you see Charizard in Team Preview, you're scared of it, not necessarily because Charizard-X wrecks your team or because Charizard-Y wrecks your team, but because a misprediction often either costs your physical wall to get KO'd by Fire Blast, or your special wall to get Dragon Danced on. Due to its sheer unpredictability, Charizard, in my opinion, should be S rank.
People take this notion to say that each, by itself, is an S rank pokemon, which I don't necessarily agree with. If each mega started in their mega form, appeared as such in the team preview, and was banned from holding an item, Charizard-Y would be A+ or A ranked. It is very easily countered and checked, but still does a ton of damage. However, the fact that it could be X is what makes it so good.
However, in the end, I guess I agree. If we have to rank Megas separately from their base forms (why can't we be like ubers??), then Charizard-Y, due to the unpredictability of Charizard, and the difference between Y and X, make a very flawed S ranked Pokemon.
You may lose a Pokemon if you believe it to be Charizard X and it turns out to be Charizard Y, but you may lose the match if you thought it was Charizard Y and it's really Charizard X.
The cost of guessing Charizard Y wrong can be significantly higher.
And, unlike Charizard X, Y only has one set.
You may know it's X, but if you mispredict your switch (and bring out, let's say, Azumarill) and it's the bulky set with Will-o-Wisp...
These somewhat common situations are why I'd like to see Y fall to A+ and X remain in S.
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