Would an offensive Blissey work?

Magmortified

<b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
I thought of a Blissey a little while ago that I've been using on Shoddy. The idea behind it is to actually be a Special attacker that hides behind Subs (What? You thought I was going to say Choice Band?).

Anyhow, here's the set:

Blissey @ Leftovers/Expert Belt
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Special Attack, 4 Speed
-Substitute
-Focus Blast
-Psychic
-Ice Beam

The idea being to bring Blissey out against a Special attacker that can't do anything to it. Then to use Substitute. Either a switch to something that can counter Blissey will occur, or they'll stay in. Blissey should be able to get and keep a Substitute. I've used the above set with great success against people who try to bring out Infernape, Dugtrio, Weavile, etc. Though you could conceivably switch moves around for Grass Knot, Flamethrower, or Thunderbolt.

So would it work? Or is it a bad idea?
 
Sounds like a rather "counter your counter" Idea

Give us some calcs please and then we can analize it properly.
 
Bad idea. No EVs in Defense.
Gets easily out-walled. Doesn't pack a punch and can do better things.
Why would you get a suprise kill to then get pwned for not having a good wall or a good Aroma-the-rapist or a good CMer or a good SRer or a good status inflicter?
 
I've used Trick and gotten Choice Specs on a Bliss. It is a threat but nothing overwhelming. You may as well just use a tanky special sweeper.
 
Blissey needs max defense EVs. Because Bliss's defense is such utter CRAP the EV bonus will nearly double it.

Also she NEEDS Softboiled. Otherwise Sandstorm, Spikes, attacks will rip her apart.

Calm Mind (Charm works too) / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Softboiled

^ Offensive Blissey ^
 
All right, then. Lessee:

Infernape: 68-80% damage if it has no HP or Special Defense EVs (What Infernape does?) with Psychic. More if it has Expert Belt.

Dugtrio: Guaranteed OHKO with Ice Beam.

Weavile: Guaranteed OHKO with Focus Blast, provided it doesn't have Focus Sash.

Breloom: Guaranteed OHKO with Psychic. The thing's annoying as heck.

Machamp: 45-53% on Machoke. Plus, Blissey's usually faster. Works best against ReSTalker. That doesn't pack Bullet Punch.
 
One thing that's iffy about the EV spread though, why maximize HP? That's very, very inefficient on a Blissey. Pour those into Defense or Sp defense instead.
 
Magmortified said:
Infernape: 68-80% damage if it has no HP or Special Defense EVs (What Infernape does?) with Psychic. More if it has Expert Belt.
Machamp: 45-53% on Machoke. Plus, Blissey's usually faster. Works best against ReSTalker. That doesn't pack Bullet Punch.
Click to expand...

Machoke or machamp? He is rarely used anyway. The infernape dealie is wahts going to hurt you though.
 
BLAZIKEN_57 said:
One thing that's iffy about the EV spread though, why maximize HP? That's very, very inefficient on a Blissey. Pour those into Defense or Sp defense instead.
Click to expand...

I agree, If Def. was maxed it would actually have a decent chance of taking out the physical threats you posted calcs of.
 
Y'know, it's not bad as a surprise. Definatly max Defence instead of HP though. That's obvious stuff.

Sub also has the added bonus of exposing any Scarf/Band Hera that try to switch in, as they will have to use a move to break the Sub as you Psychic him. From there, you're free to switch to something that resists said move.

Lack of Softboiled and Leftovers hurts though
 
Machamp: 45-53% on Machoke.
Click to expand...

...Machoke?

Anyways, I'm really doubtful as to the effectiveness of this set. Blissey really can't wall effectively with it thanks to lack of softboiled, and anything that's decently defensive could probably wall this. Also, with the exception of Machamp, none of the pokemon you listed are exactly good switch-ins to Blissey in the first place. Infernape and Weavile are rendered near-useless with T-wave and Breloom/Dugtrio can't take Ice Beam.

Edit: And put the HP Ev's in defense.
 
This set is way too situational.

First, it relies so much on that substitute. Without that sub up, this set is worthless. Consider this situation.

Player 1 substitutes in Blissey

Player 2 withdraws Gengar
Player 2 sends out Infernape
Player 1's Blissey uses Substitute

Player 2's Infernape uses Close Combat.
Player 2's Infernape loses 10% due to Life Orb
Player 1's Blissey's Substitute breaks.
Player 1's Blissey uses Psychic.
Player 2's Infernape loses 75% health

Now what? Blissey is easily as good as gone next turn. The Calm mind set outclasses this IMO.
 
Player 2's Infernape uses Close Combat.
Player 1's Infernape loses 10% due to Life Orb
Player 1's Infernape's Defence and Sp. Def fell
Player 1's Blissey's Substitute breaks.
Player 1's Blissey uses Psychic.
Player 2's Infernape loses 100% health
Click to expand...

Fixed. Focus Blast also makes a hella surprise for Tboah.
 
Mainly because it loses offensive diversity if you give it Softboiled.

As for Infernape, I forgot about Close Combat. Really confusing for me on why it OHKO'd and came out as a 2HKO on the damage calculator.

So... No max HP? So would maxed Defense and Special Attack work?

And... Uh... no. I don't believe I've ever run Focus Punch on Blissey. So I'm probably not that person you see using it on a Crobat. =P
 
It doesn't lose diversity by giving it Softboiled lol. What is Substitute doing on that set? You really aren't accomplishing much by using Substitute except that you lose some extra HP and can't heal. Anything attacking Blissey will be breaking the Substitute, so that's not going to help you there.
 
Calm Mind Bliss isn't intended as an offensive Blissey. You can Calm Mind 6 times, but you won't be sweeping anything because the opponent will just send out Heracross and give you the option to run or die. Calm Mind Bliss is an overly-specialised counter to uber threats, allowing Blissey to goe toe to toe with the likes of Latios, Manaphy and non-Taunt Mewtwo. In OU it can counter Nasty Plot Pokemon somewhat.

This set IS an offensive set, and it's certainly not the best use of a Blissey (I'd certainly put Softboiled> Ice Beam...who exactly are you Ice Beaming anyway? Duggy will be 2HKO'd by Psychic), but it's one of those quirky little gimmicks. Certainly wouldn't use it in standard play though.
 
...Except most Special attackers.

Substitute is mainly there to block the incoming Physical attack while Blissey takes whatever they brought in to take it down. Softboiled could be added in there... If you're willing to lose the chance of a supereffective hit on something.
 
Honestly, CM Bliss is as close as you can get to an offensive one. I mean, without any setup, it really doesn't pose a threat to anything.
 
Sorry that my post is rather small, I didn't think furthur elaboration was needed.

...Don't we already have an offensive blissey? CM bliss?

[edit] my bad, seems as though i'm the 5th person to say this :x
 
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