Wimp Out and Emergency Exit (Spoilers)

[Its_A_Random]

General rules apply. There are spoilers in this thread.

So here we have two abilities that do the same thing. Wimp Out which is for Wimpod, and Emergency Exit which is for Wimpod's evo: Golisopod. The aim of this thread is to come up with an implementation for these abilities for Sun & Moon ASB. What I have down for these two at the moment is this:

Wimp Out - Passive | Mold Breaker: No | Switches out of battle at the end of a round where HP < 50% (Switch = OK). Got to think of something here (Switch = KO).
Emergency Exit - Passive | Mold Breaker: No | Switches out of battle at the end of a round where HP < 50% (Switch = OK). Got to think of something here (Switch = KO).

As you can see, I have drawn a blank on what to do for Switch = KO matches (relevant for things like Raids and TLR's especially) and am not sold on its Switch = OK effect. One mechanic to note from in-game:

U-turn/Volt Switch, Circle Throw/Dragon Tail, and Red Card/Eject Button override Wimp Out/Emergency Exit. Its in-game effect is to switch out if HP drops from above 50% to below 50%.

Here's a post in Omnibus Thread to get you started:

However, theres something that is bugging me about Wimp Out.


The current description implies it will automatically force the pokemon to switch out, but that just seems to have the potential to be way too punishing for it's user. Match up control is an extremely important aspect of ASB, and completely forcing a pokemon to leave the field, even if the user does not want it, is in my opnion, way too big of a disvantage, not to mention the sheer frustation factor.

We changed other abilites for being potentially punishing for it's users, such as the likes of Drought, Drizzle and even the unreleased Dancer. As Wimp Out is not supposed to be a purely harmful ability (Such as Truant), should we allow the user to decide wether he wants to switch or not?

Now, obviously, we have very little information on Wimpod, therefore i believe we should wait before reaching a decision. Wimp Out is just weird in that it has the potential to be awful or game-breaking, depending on the mechanics, but i believe some consideration is necessary.

No real idea on how to make it work in Switch = KO either. A free dodge? Should it bypass Aerial Ace and friends? Should it dodge automatically or the user has to specify an action? Something simpler, but completely unrelated that makes flavor sense?

There's a couple of posts afterwards on the matter but that's it.

So yeah, anyone want to help out? Unless we get a general consensus, this will go to a council vote.

 

[JJayyFeather]

Can we just make this a clone of Eject Button?

 

[FortColors]

Another suggestion is to make it as in-game for switch=ok, except togglable (disables ability from auto-activating)
And we could copy self-switching for switch=ko, which would make it a triggerable self-switching move in switch=ko (which already has defined effects).

heck, or even remove the part of triggering to use as self-switching when it's switch = ok

Switch = OK: Switches out of battle at the end of a round where HP < 50%. This may be toggled off.
Switch = KO: The ability may be triggered to reset all of the Pokemon's stat changes and snaps it out of temporary status as well as other effects like Disable, Taunt, and Torment.

I copied the first sentence of switch=ok from iar and switch=ko is just changing the word "attack" from uturn

 

[FMD]

How about we have it work as the Option 1 effect of Eject Button in both Switch=KO and =OK? A free dodge is always nice.

 

[FortColors]

How about we have it work as the Option 1 effect of Eject Button in both Switch=KO and =OK? A free dodge is always nice.

A free dodge after the user gets to 50% hp? That's actually interesting lol. Might be a bit OP though? Not sure.

Crits can screw with you, as can misses. It seems like it'd force a sub from the opponent and maybe even yourself saying "IF ability activates, THEN do this" just to avoid all sorts of hax or self-damage etc. Also would that work with substitute? Because THAT would be sooo fun and even more broken lol. "IF Wimpod has less than 50% + 20 hp and more than 50% hp, THEN substitute (20)."

Your suggestion seems like a very very useful ability for sure, but there seems to be a shit ton of complex and potentially broken interactions attached.

EDIT: "Crits can screw with you, as can misses." is because disregarding subs, you and the opponent both need to calculate exactly when it happens, and crits might / misses will change that.

 

[Matezoide]

Can we just make this a clone of Eject Button?

I wouldnt mind this. Maybe to avoid the scenario Fort is worried about we could have the ability give the user the option to decide when it dodges once the mon goes below 50%.

ie, Wimpod/Golisopod will never dodge unless the user specifically tells it to. Once it is below 50%, the user can order something like Leech Life -> X-Scissor [Dodge] -> Leech Life

As well as include that in Subs too? "If your health is below X, THEN activate Emergency Exit that action"

For the purposes of Recovery moves, does anyone know if the ability can trigger more than once per battle in-game?

 

[Geodude6]

reddit claims that it will reactivate if the Pokemon is brought above 50% health and then brought back below that point.

@ below: let's just say there was some family drama and leave it at that

 

[JJayyFeather]

The SuMo Mechanics thread on Smogon also has said this.

also whoa Geodude6 nice to see you didn't die

 

[Birkal]

Yah, sounds good to just add in a Dodge command and make it similar to Eject Button under 50%.

 

[Its_A_Random]

I want this to be wrapped up soon so 48 hour warning. I'll assess the options in the thread and go from there once time.

 

[ZhengTann]

Pulling a Fort - IAR's options thus far:

Switch = OK: Switches out of battle at the end of a round where HP < 50%. This may be toggled off.
Switch = KO: The ability may be triggered to reset all of the Pokemon's stat changes and snaps it out of temporary status as well as other effects like Disable, Taunt, and Torment.

Include in Substitutions too - "If your health is below X, THEN activate Emergency Exit that action"

After being struck by an opposing Pokemon's attack, during that action, this may be activated by the player without using an action. To activate it use the trigger syntax or anything similar, without it taking a sub slot. The player can specify an attack, an opponent or make it activate after any attack. When activated, the activating Pokemon may do any one of the following:
1: Be guaranteed a successful dodge against the opposing Pokemon's next action
2: Switch out at the end of the round to another of the player's Pokemon of their choosing (Cannot be chosen if Switch=KO or the player has no other available Pokemon)

After being struck by an opposing Pokemon's attack, during that action, this may be activated by the player without using an action. To activate it use the trigger syntax or anything similar, without it taking a sub slot. The player can specify an attack, an opponent or make it activate after any attack. When activated, the activating Pokemon may be guaranteed a successful dodge against the opposing Pokemon's next action.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Yeah Eject Button clone sounds okay for both let's do this.

Emergency Exit - Passive | Mold Breaker: No | This Pokémon has a very strong sense of when thing get dangerous and will make a tactical retreat when its health gets low. When its HP goes below 50% from above 50%, it gains one Emergency Exit counter. This Pokémon can use an Emergency Exit counter without spending an action (as part of an action-set or a substitution) to do one of two things:
1: Switch out of at the end of the round and replace with another of the player's choosing. This does not affect turn order. This cannot be picked in Switch = KO.
2: Be guaranteed to dodge the opponent's next attack.

Wimp Out - Passive | Mold Breaker: No | This Pokémon is inherently cowardly and will run away when its health gets low. When its HP goes below 50% from above 50%, it gains one Wimp Out counter. This Pokémon can use a Wimp Out counter without spending an action (as part of an action-set or a substitution) to do one of two things:
1: Switch out of at the end of the round and replace with another of the player's choosing. This does not affect turn order. This cannot be picked in Switch = KO.
2: Be guaranteed to dodge the opponent's next attack.

I've decided to implement eject button clone with a voluntary counter to use anytime with Matezoide's suggestion that it can be used as part of a sub. I don't really think saying that switching out will not impact turn order will be a metagame-breaking decision but if it proves to be in practice we can review it alongside other things a week or so after release. Consider:

[21:25:32] Its_A_Random "oh shit if I let him go below 50% he gets to switch out and order second"
[21:25:46] Its_A_Random "but I can just switch phase if he does"
[21:25:55] Its_A_Random *opponent sends out gumshoos*
[21:26:35] Its_A_Random hmmm
[21:26:40] Its_A_Random *switch phase*
[21:26:53] Its_A_Random *opponent counterswitches in golisopod*
[21:27:07] Its_A_Random *opponent subs to switch out after < 50%*
[21:27:55] Its_A_Random "shit I cant switch to whatever counter he sends in"
[21:30:41] Its_A_Random "but hmmm that means he can only sub for two other things"

It can be a powerful tool due to mindgames, yes, but it's not necessarily too advantageous on paper. Also might be a good field test that assesses how strong a free switch without affecting turn order really is in practice.

No council vote necessary because I feel that we reached a consensus here that we can all agree on bar possibly the turn order bit.