Gen 1 Wigglytuff (NU) [QC 2/2] [GP 1/1]

[juoean]

[OVERVIEW]

Wigglytuff is entirely outclassed by Clefable in NU. However, Clefable is one of the best Pokemon available, and Wigglytuff can do many of the same things, so Wigglytuff can be used alongside it as a second, more limited Clefable. Compared to Clefable, Wigglytuff has equally strong STAB moves and similar utility in Thunder Wave but slightly less bulk and very weak coverage moves due to its poor Special stat. In particular, Wigglytuff can be used as a response to the opposing Clefable, or in some cases as a response to Mr. Mime, allowing your own Clefable to be used for other things rather than being locked into a Clefable mirror. However, devoting a slot to Wigglytuff comes at a significant cost, since NU is an extremely centralized metagame. Using Wigglytuff leaves you with an overall slower team and generally means forgoing either Charizard or a different late-game sweeper, such as Seadra, Raticate, Electrode, or Kingler. Wigglytuff performs quite consistently when it is used, but the limitations it imposes on teambuilding are not always worth it.


[SET]

name: Bulky Support
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Hyper Beam
move 3: Seismic Toss
move 4: Body Slam / Blizzard


[SET COMMENTS]
=============

Thunder Wave should always be used to help compensate for Wigglytuff's poor Speed and to ensure Charizard cannot set up in front of it, as Wigglytuff cannot 2HKO it. It is also generally useful due to the fast pace of matches, and it gives a bulky Pokemon, such as Wigglytuff itself, extra chances to get an advantage from full paralysis. STAB Hyper Beam is by far Wigglytuff’s most powerful move; it has a decent chance to KO Mr. Mime after a Body Slam or Seismic Toss, it is generally a good option against weakened foes, and it is a good final attack right before Wigglytuff is KOed. Seismic Toss is Wigglytuff’s most spammable move, 3HKOing Mr. Mime and 4HKOing everything other than opposing Wigglytuff. Due to Wigglytuff’s middling Attack, poor Special, and low critical hit rate, alternative moves aside from Hyper Beam rarely deal significantly more damage anyway. Seismic Toss also helps to ensure Wigglytuff does not become useless if burned.

Body Slam is often the preferred fourth move, enabling Wigglytuff to threaten Nidoking with paralysis and providing a second spammable move alongside Seismic Toss, making Wigglytuff less predictable. In particular, being able to use Body Slam to threaten paralysis rather than depending on Thunder Wave makes it more difficult for Nidoking to switch in for free. On the other hand, using a Body Slam + Seismic Toss set makes the Golem matchup difficult, since Golem is immune to Thunder Wave, Speed ties Wigglytuff, and avoids a 3HKO from Seismic Toss even after a Body Slam. Blizzard is Wigglytuff’s best coverage option for Golem without compromising the Nidoking matchup; it 2HKOes Golem about half the time, and it also deals 38% minimum to Nidoking, leaving it in range of Blastoise’s Surf or Mr. Mime’s Psychic. However, note that Blizzard does minimal damage against neutral targets due to Wigglytuff’s poor Special, so it leaves Wigglytuff very reliant on Seismic Toss.

Wigglytuff can be used as a lead, since it has a very favorable matchup against Mr. Mime and an acceptable matchup against Charizard while preventing Venomoth from switching in safely due to Thunder Wave and STAB Body Slam. Alternatively, Clefable can be used in the lead slot for its ability to 2HKO Charizard with Blizzard and similarly favorable Mr. Mime matchup, and it can also use Psychic to threaten Venomoth; in this case, Wigglytuff should be used to provide the team with a bulky Thunder Wave user and Clefable check. Outside of the lead, Wigglytuff is typically best used as a Clefable switch-in, after which it can paralyze it with Thunder Wave and trade hits with Seismic Toss or Body Slam. Wigglytuff can also switch into a predicted Seismic Toss or Thunder Wave from Mr. Mime, but Wigglytuff does not want to switch into Mr. Mime's Psychic, as it can be 2HKOed with one critical hit.



[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Bubble Beam provides a guaranteed 2HKO on Golem and a 33% Speed drop chance, but dropping Body Slam for Bubble Beam leaves Wigglytuff without a good move to threaten Nidoking; dropping Seismic Toss for Bubble Beam leaves Wigglytuff walled by Kabutops. Counter can potentially deal massive damage; however, Wigglytuff's opportunities to use Counter are typically limited to specific Pokemon such as Raticate, Wigglytuff, and rare targets like Primeape and Pinsir. Clefable does more damage to it with Blizzard than Body Slam anyway, and Wigglytuff does not force many switches. Thunderbolt can be used to avoid Blastoise’s Counter, 3HKO Kabutops, and rarely 2HKO Kingler; however, if Kabutops switches into either Body Slam or Hyper Beam, then Seismic Toss will 3HKO it, making it comparable to Thunderbolt. Wigglytuff is also not too threatened by Blastoise’s Counter due to its high HP stat, taking less than 50% from a Counter on Seismic Toss. Sing is a potential option, but it is not a very good one due to its 55% accuracy and Wigglytuff’s abysmal Speed. However, since Wigglytuff can be effective enough with just Thunder Wave, Seismic Toss, and Hyper Beam, Sing can be used in the fourth moveslot for niche matchups, such as against opposing Wigglytuff, and as a desperation play in an otherwise losing game.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Ground-types**: Nidoking can switch into Wigglytuff's Thunder Wave and usually defeat it, outspeeding and 3HKOing it with Earthquake while avoiding a 2HKO from any combination of moves. However, Nidoking does not want to switch into Body Slam or Blizzard. Conversely, Golem has little to fear from a Body Slam + Seismic Toss Wigglytuff and can similarly switch into its Thunder Wave, but it risks losing the Speed tie and being 2HKOed by Blizzard.

**Fire-types**: Wigglytuff is 3HKOed by any STAB Fire Blast, aside from Moltres's which usually 2HKOes. A burn also makes Wigglytuff unable to use its STAB Hyper Beam effectively. However, Fire-types generally hate being paralyzed by Thunder Wave.

**Rock-types**: Kabutops can switch into Hyper Beam and take advantage of the recharge turn to either boost with Swords Dance or simply KO a weakened Wigglytuff, depending on the situation. Golem can also switch into Hyper Beam and either set up a Substitute or attack with Earthquake.

**Sleep**: Because of its poor Speed, Wigglytuff can be vulnerable to Pokemon with sleep-inducing moves, such as Venomoth or even Sing Clefable. However, sleep inducers do not want to switch into Thunder Wave, and Venomoth does not want to switch into Body Slam.

[CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/juoean.486979/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/may.236353/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sabelette.583793/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/volk.530877/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sabelette.583793/

 

[juoean]

note to qc: honestly i kind of think that slam beam twave stoss should just be the main set, no slashes, and the other moves should be oo. or maybe blizzard should get a slash with body slam since it covers everything pretty well alongside seismic toss, while leaving bubblebeam and counter in oo?

leaving it as is for now, obv. if qc decides to move any or all of the slashed moves into other options i will edit and reformat stuff accordingly

 

[Sabelette]

My thoughts, this is mostly about flow/grammar rather than content:

Wiggly

Removals in red, "I would reword this" in purple, additions/grammar fixes in blue, I'm just doing this quick

[OVERVIEW]

Wigglytuff is thoroughly outclassed in NU by Clefable, but because of how dominant Clefable is in the metagame, Wigglytuff can be used alongside it, (remove comma IMO) as a second but more limited Clefable. In particular, Wigglytuff can be used as a response to the opponent's Clefable, allowing you to preserve your own. Running Wigglytuff alongside Clefable also can help compensate for moves that Clefable is unable to fit in its moveset by running those moves itself.

However, devoting a pokemon (Don't think this is needed) slot to Wigglytuff comes at a significant cost, particularly since NU is an extremely centralized metagame. The lack of pokemon slots might require for example: relying on Poliwhirl as your only water type; forgoing a threatening sweeper or fast powerful attacker such as Charizard, Ninetales, Moltres, or Raticate; or running sing Clefable as your sole sleep move user. (I think this is awkwardly worded with all the colons and semicolons, maybe something like "It is difficult to fit Wigglytuff while still reserving room for necessary roles such as fast, threatening attackers, a bulky Water-type, and a sleeper.") Each of these, or any other form of role compression, comes with significant downsides. So (again think this might be unneeded) while Wigglytuff performs quite consistently when it is used, the limitations it imposes on teambuilding are often not worth it.


[SET]

move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Seismic Toss / Body Slam
move 3: Hyper Beam / Body Slam
move 4: Body Slam / Bubblebeam / Counter / Blizzard


[SET COMMENTS]

Thunder Wave should be run on every Wigglytuff moveset, as unlike Clefable Wigglytuff lacks powerful special coverage, and does not want to be dependent on Body Slam's paralysis chance against fast threats, particularly fire types Fire-types which have the chance to cripple Wigglytuff with burn. Seismic Toss is Wigglytuff's most spammable move in NU, at minimum 4HKOing the whole tier other than opposing Wigglytuff, and in particular is Wigglytuff's only viable damaging move that threatens Kabutops. STAB Hyper Beam is by far Wigglytuff's most powerful move against any Pokémon that does not resist it, having a decent chance to KO Mr. Mime after a Seismic Toss, and in general being a good option either against weakened foes or right before Wigglytuff is about to be KOed; the risk of the opponent predicting and taking advantage of a Hyper Beam recharge is generally lower than the benefits it offers, particularly since Wigglytuff has Thunder Wave to threaten Swords Dance users.

Body Slam is most often the preferred fourth move, threatening to cripple Nidoking with paralysis, and in general providing a second spammable move alongside of Seismic Toss, thereby making Wigglytuff less predictable. Body Slam can also be a good move to click against a Pokémon that will then be in Seismic Toss range due to the paralysis chance. However, Bubble Beam is also an option for a guaranteed 2HKO on Golem while still having a speed drop chance and tolerable damage against Nidoking. Counter can potentially deal massive damage,; however, Clefable will usually attack Wigglytuff with Blizzard anyway, so Wigglytuff's opportunities to use Counter are mostly limited to either predicted switches or specific uncommon Pokémon such as Raticate, Primeape, Pinsir, and opposing Wigglytuff, none of which are necessarily on the opponents team. Blizzard is an another option for threatening Golem, although it is only a 2HKO about half the time, but while also 3HKOing Nidoking somewhat making up for not having the chance to paralyze it with Body Slam. Note that due to Wigglytuff's poor special stat, its Blizzard will do very minimal damage to Pokémon that it is not super effective against deals minimal damage to neutral or resistant targets.

If Wigglytuff wants to use its last moveslot for one of these other moves, either Seismic Toss or Hyper Beam could can also be replaced by Body Slam to make room for special coverage or Counter; but however, forgoing Seismic Toss means struggling against rock types Rock-types (or specifically against Kabutops if using Bubblebeam), while not running Hyper Beam significantly reduces Wigglytuff’s power.


[CREDITS:]
written by:
quality checked by:
grammar checked by:

 

[juoean]

finally got back to this and implemented ClairDeLuna's GP comments. [i made a couple other changes in addition to your suggestions, so u are free to comment on those too if u want :) but obv only if u feel like it etc]

 

[Plague von Karma]

Implement for QC 1/2. Most of my issues are prose-based, good work overall! For easy implementation of the check, use https://spo.ink/gpvideo.
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(AC) = Add Comma
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Before we get into this, use the Skeletons Thread in the future when starting an analysis, the credits section was a little weird and I'm assuming you wrote this entire thing out yourself when you didn't need to.

bink

[OVERVIEW]

Wigglytuff is thoroughly outclassed in NU by Clefable, but because of how dominant Clefable is in the metagame, Wigglytuff can be used alongside it as a second but more limited Clefable. In particular, Wigglytuff can be used as a response to the opponent's Clefable, allowing you to preserve your own. Running Wigglytuff alongside Clefable also can help compensate for moves that Clefable is unable to fit in its moveset by running those moves itself.

The cart feels like it's being put before the horse here, the introduction is a bit hasty and almost difficult to follow. How I'd word it is "Only having high HP to distinguish itself, Wigglytuff is outclassed by Clefable in RBY NU. However, it finds use alongside it thanks to sharing largely the same qualities". It's a bit "slower" but the pacing is deceptively important.

I think it is also nice to mention what Wigglytuff does have that's different. Not to toot my own horn - I know I'm coming off as such - but this old analysis by me from before NU started getting analyses is a good metric. It gets the nitty-gritty out of the way quickly so we can focus on what matters while ensuring the reader knows what is actually different. It's quite bad by modern standards but the points it gets across are what I want to see before it gets taken down in favour of this NU analysis.

It may be worth name-dropping "ClefTuff" as the team style somewhere, we use that a lot.

However, devoting a team slot to Wigglytuff comes at a significant cost, particularly since NU is an extremely centralized metagame. Using a team slot for Wigglytuff generally means either losing out on a potentially dangerous sweeper, (RC) or leaving your team vulnerable to certain metagame threats such as Moltres or Kingler. Alternatively Additionally, (I am 90% sure this is what you mean to say but feel free to correct me) any form of role compression such as running Sing Clefable as your only sleeper comes with significant downsides; in this case, Sing's consistency is very poor and can result in it taking unnecessary damage. (I am not sure what you're trying to put out here either, but I am assuming this is what's missing) While Wigglytuff performs quite consistently when it is used, the limitations it imposes on teambuilding are often not worth it.

[SET]
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Seismic Toss / Body Slam
move 3: Hyper Beam / Body Slam
move 4: Body Slam / Bubble Beam / Blizzard / Counter (modern spelling is used on the dex)

[SET COMMENTS]
Thunder Wave should be run on every Wigglytuff moveset, as unlike Clefable, (AC) Wigglytuff lacks powerful special coverage, and does not want to be dependent on Body Slam's paralysis chance against fast threats, particularly Fire-types which have the chance to cripple Wigglytuff with a burn. Seismic Toss is Wigglytuff's most spammable move in NU, at minimum 4HKOing the whole tier other than opposing Wigglytuff, and in particular, (AC) is Wigglytuff's only viable damaging move that threatens Kabutops. STAB Hyper Beam is by far Wigglytuff's most powerful move against any Pokémon that does not resist it, having a decent chance to KO Mr. Mime after a Seismic Toss, and in general, (AC) being a good option either against weakened foes or right before Wigglytuff is about to be KOed; the risk of the opponent predicting and taking advantage of a Hyper Beam recharge is generally lower than the benefits it offers, particularly since Wigglytuff has Thunder Wave to threaten Swords Dance users.

Body Slam is most often the preferred fourth move, threatening to cripple Nidoking with paralysis, and providing a second spammable move alongside of Seismic Toss, making Wigglytuff less predictable. Body Slam can also be a good move to click against a Pokémon that will then be in Seismic Toss range due to the paralysis chance. Bubble Beam is an option for a guaranteed 2HKO on Golem as well as having a speed drop chance, but does less damage to Nidoking than Body Slam. Blizzard is an another option for threatening ground types, 2HKOing Golem about half the time and 3HKOing Nidoking. Note that due to Wigglytuff's poor special stat, its Blizzard deals minimal damage to neutral targets. Counter can potentially deal massive damage; however, since Clefable will usually attack Wigglytuff with Blizzard, Wigglytuff's opportunities to use Counter are mostly limited to either predicted switches or less common Pokémon such as Raticate, Primeape, Pinsir, and opposing Wigglytuff. (It is worth noting that Wigglytuff uses Counter far more effectively than Clefable does, because of its higher HP. You could also mention that it swaps into Seismic Toss more effectively, making it a slightly better Mime check in some situations. Minor, but I'd argue the Seismic Toss bit is crucial when fighting Mr. Mime with ClefTuff teams.

Dropping either Seismic Toss or Hyper Beam rather than Body Slam is an option on sets that run Bubblebeam or Counter; however, forgoing Seismic Toss means struggling against Rock-types (or specifically against Kabutops if using Bubblebeam), (Replace these with — on either side, this'll give you the emdash, which fits the purpose without the weird punctuation) while not running Hyper Beam significantly reduces Wigglytuff’s power.

[CREDITS:]
- Written by: [[juoean, 486979]]
- Quality checked by: [[May, 236353], [name, id]]
- Grammar checked by: [[name, id]]

 

[juoean]

u are correct, i didnt know the ‘skeleton’ existed and j wrote all the formatting myself / based it off other analyses.

maybe i should just delete the “alternatively… sing clefable” sentence lol. the intended meaning was that in order to creat a slot for wigglytuff while still fitting other things u want/need, u could drop venomoth/poliwhirl and run sing on clefable. since you have wiggly, u can semi-tolerate ruining the rest of clefable’s moveset. but im not sure this is actually a good idea (at all), i have tried it a few times, it was eh idk, and since its also confusing maybe better to just remove the sentence.

def will put the seismic toss from mime thing, as well as one or two other places where the higher hp stat is relevant. not sure how to change the counter sentence, i could add after ‘can potentially do massive damage’, ‘due to its huge HP stat’. i wouldnt say that wiggly uses counter better than clefable, for the reasons noted.

will implement everything else, ty May

 

[juoean]

implemented, or tried to implement, all of May's QC comments. except for @ counter which i wasn't sure exactly what i should say about that as noted above.

i deleted the sentence about sing clefable (for now, obv can always be changed back).

added the seismic toss 5hko mention, but will look at that part again tomorrow to see if i can make it 'flow' better.

 

[Volk]

Let me take a look real quick.

However, because of how dominant Clefable is in the metagame, Wigglytuff can be used alongside it on "Clef-Tuff" builds, having slightly less bulk than Clefable on both sides, similar utility in Thunder Wave as well as equally strong STAB moves, but very weak coverage moves due to its poor special stat.

Okay a few little issues here. First, Wigglytuff is less useful because "of how dominant Clefable is" and more so because of how useful Clefable's skillset is. This might sound like the same thing, but there is some nuance here. The point you want to make here is that, despite Wigglytuff being outclassed, the skillset it shares with Clefable is so good that you may want to run it twice. The only way what you wrote makes sense is if you instead want to argue that running Wigglytuff allows you to get more out of Clefable. If this is what you meant, you might want to establish that here (I know you casually mention it in a later sentence). Second, I think this wants to be two sentences; specifically, the first one should end after the word "builds." The second sentence can then state something like "despite having less bulk and weaker coverage moves, similar utility in Thunder Wave and equally strong STAB moves allows it to..." and so on. Right now, this sentence is pretty tough to read, so I'd break it up

Thunder Wave should be run on every Wigglytuff moveset, as unlike Clefable Wigglytuff lacks powerful special coverage, and does not want to be dependent on Body Slam's paralysis chance against fast threats, particularly Fire-types which have the chance to cripple Wigglytuff with a burn.

Thunder Wave should be run on every Wigglytuff moveset, as, unlike Clefable, Wigglytuff lacks powerful special coverage and does not want to be dependent on Body Slam's paralysis chance against fast threats. This is particularly important for Fire-types, which have the chance to cripple Wigglytuff with a burn.

Seismic Toss is Wigglytuff's most spammable move in NU, at minimum 4HKOing the whole tier other than opposing Wigglytuff, and in particular, is Wigglytuff's only viable damaging move that threatens Kabutops.

There's no need to say "in NU." I'd go for a semicolon after "move" and say "it, at minimum, 4HKOes the whole..." You also need a comma after the word "and." Also, I don't know, but I feel like you should at least mention Thunderbolt somewhere. I know it's not great, but it is by far the best move for Kabutops and it generally outdamages Seismic Toss against unboosted Water-type Pokemon. I think you underestimate Thunderbolt a little, and, even if it is that bad, I still think you should probably mention it because people will wonder why it's not there. Also, while Body Slam can do it too, it might be worth noting that Seismic Toss will always 3HKO Mr. Mime somewhere.

Wigglytuff's ability to threaten Mr. Mime offensively, combined with Wigglytuff losing less than 21% of its health to Seismic Toss due to its high HP stat, makes Wigglytuff an excellent switch-in to Mr. Mime in some situations.

Nitpick, but I think I'd change "an excellent" to "a strong." Seems a little contradictory to say it's excellent only sometimes.

Body Slam can also be a good move to click against a Pokémon that will then be in Seismic Toss range due to the paralysis chance.

For clarity, I'd reorder/reword this. Maybe "Body Slam can be a good choice if the foe is just out of range of Seismic Toss, thanks to the paralysis chance." Not exactly sure, but this sentence is a little tough to follow.

Blizzard is another option for threatening ground types, 2HKOing Golem about half the time and 3HKOing Nidoking.

Change to "Ground-types."

Counter can potentially deal massive damage; however, since Clefable's strongest no-drawbacks move against Wigglytuff is Blizzard, Wigglytuff's opportunities to use Counter are typically limited to less common Pokémon such as Raticate, Primeape, Pinsir, and opposing Wigglytuff; or on predicted switches.

I suppose you could also catch a Hyper Beam. Maybe you could also Counter an Explosion (especially because Wigglytuff can force switches with Thunder Wave), but that might be too niche.

Dropping either Seismic Toss or Hyper Beam rather than Body Slam is an option on sets that run Bubblebeam or Counter; however, forgoing Seismic Toss means struggling against Rock-types — or specifically against Kabutops if using Bubble Beam — while not running Hyper Beam leaves Wigglytuff sorely lacking in power.

This might be me, but I strongly advise running Hyper Beam on most Wigglytuff. Like the Pokemon is pretty toothless without it. Also, in general, I think you may want to stress some of Wigglytuff's stronger/significant matchups, like Mr. Mime and Clefable (Hyper Beam is super helpful in both of these); specifically, you may also want to stress what you stand to gain by running this Pokemon. Also, I know this is a Mini, but I think this analysis would benefit from a few extra details about Team Options. Discuss what kind of teams want a second Clefable.

Let me know when you implement this and I'll read it over again. I think I'll give the QC shortly after. Cheers!

 

[juoean]

finally did a bunch of edits for this. sorry about the long delay

 

[Sabelette]

QC time, lemme point out some stuff and ask you to expand the ending part a bit then we can go QC 2/2 (I think you forgot to update the thread title and at this point May checked and Volk sorta checked but never gave QC)! Did a little GP in there too.

Add Remove Comment
AC = Add Comma, RC = Remove Comma

[OVERVIEW]

Wigglytuff is entirely outclassed by Clefable in NU. However, because of how effective Clefable is and because Wigglytuff can do many of the same things, Wigglytuff can be used alongside Clefable on "Clef-Tuff" builds (idt this is needed). Wigglytuff has slightly less bulk than Clefable on both sides, similar utility in Thunder Wave as well as equally strong STAB moves, but very weak coverage moves due to its poor sSpecial (capitalize, GP) stat. In particular, Wigglytuff can be used as a response to the opponent's Clefable, allowing you to preserve your own. Wigglytuff can also help compensate for moves that Clefable is unable to fit in its moveset, by running those moves itself (sentence runs kind of awkward, consider "Wigglytuff's movepool is similar to Clefable's, allowing it to fit moves Clefable cannot" or similar).

However, devoting a slot to Wigglytuff comes at a significant cost, particularly since NU is an extremely centralized metagame. Using a teamslot for Wigglytuff generally means either losing out on a potentially dangerous sweeper, or leaving your team vulnerable to certain metagame threats such as Moltres or Kingler. While Wigglytuff performs quite consistently when it is used, the limitations it imposes on teambuilding are often not worth it.


[SET]

move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Seismic Toss
move 3: Hyper Beam
move 4: Body Slam / Blizzard


[SET COMMENTS]

Thunder Wave should be run on every Wigglytuff moveset, as, unlike Clefable, Wigglytuff lacks powerful special coverage and does not want to be dependent on Body Slam's paralysis chance against fast threats. This is particularly important against Fire-types, which have the chance to cripple (personal reference but I try to avoid the word "cripple" for ableism, maybe reword - e.g. "which can burn Wigglytuff, limiting its damage output") Wigglytuff with a burn. Seismic Toss is Wigglytuff's most spammable move, 3hkoHKOing Mr. Mime and 4HKOing everything else other than opposing Wigglytuff. STAB Hyper Beam is by far Wigglytuff's most powerful move against any Pokémon that does not resist it (I think this is implicitly understood), having a decent (give us a rough percentage maybe?) chance to KO Mr. Mime after a Body Slam or Seismic Toss, and in general being a good option either against weakened foes or right before Wigglytuff is about to be KOed.

Body Slam is often the preferred fourth move, threatening to cripple (again could be reworded) Nidoking with paralysis, and providing a second spammable move alongside Seismic Toss, making Wigglytuff less predictable. Body Slam can also be a good move to click against a Pokéemon (per GP, no accent mark) that will then be in Seismic Toss range due to the paralysis chance (can be cut down, awkward phrasing). This does leave gGolem as a decent Wigglytuff switch-in (GP), though, since Golem is immune to Thunder Wave, Speed ties Wigglytuff, resists Wigglytuff’s stab its STAB moves, and avoids a 3hkoHKO from Seismic Toss, and speed ties. Blizzard is also a good option for Wigglytuff’s fourth moveslot, 2hkoHKOing Golem about half the time, (RC) and 3hkoHKOing Nidoking, while Thunder Wave followed by Seismic Toss is good enough against anything else. However, note that Blizzard does minimal damage against Pokéemon it does not hit super effectively due to Wigglytuff’s poor sSpecial stat.

Bubble Beam is a possible option for a guaranteed 2HKO on Golem as well as having a sSpeed drop chance, but it does less damage to Nidoking than Body Slam;, (comma is correct here, not semicolon) while dropping Seismic Toss for Bubblebeam leaves Wigglytuff walled by Kabutops. Counter can potentially deal massive damage; however, since Clefable's strongest no-drawbacks (reword this IMO) move against Wigglytuff is Blizzard, Wigglytuff's opportunities to use Counter are typically limited to less common Pokéemon such as Raticate, Primeape, Pinsir, and opposing Wigglytuff, predicted switches, or maybe switching into a Hyper Beam and using Counter on the recharge. Thunderbolt fails to significantly outdamage Seismic Toss against any Pokéemon other than Kingler, but it is Wigglytuff’s only option for damaging Blastoise that cannot be cCountered (I'm not sure if "Countered" is correct per GP but lowercase definitely isn't since it's a move); however, due to Wigglytuff’s high HP stat, this isn’t typically a huge concern, as for example Wigglytuff takes less than 50% from a countered Seismic Toss., so Thunderbolt is not generally worth considering. Sing is another potential option on Wigglytuff, but given its 55% accuracy,(AC) Wigglytuff's poor Speed, is among the slowest Pokéemon in the tier, and the prevalence of better sleepers, this is generally not worth considering. other Pokéemon are more effective sleepers, including Clefable itself which at least speed ties opposing Clefable, as well as being more threatening after getting sleep off due to its strong Blizzbolt coverage. (way too many commas and a little meandering IMO, I just shortened this heavily) However, since Wigglytuff can be effective enough with just Thunder Wave, Seismic Toss, and Hyper Beam, Sing can be used in the fourth moveslot for niche matchups such as against opposing Wigglytuff, or if you are behind and your best chance to win is trying to hit Sing (maybe like, "as a desperation option in a losing game").

Wigglytuff can be used as a lead, since it has generally favorable matchups against both Charizard and Mr. Mime leads, while Venomoth does not want to switch into Thunder Wave. (this needs some expansion IMO, talk about what you do with it as a lead; once you do let me review that and we can do QC 2/2 officially)


[CREDITS:]
- Written by: [[juoean, 486979]]
- Quality checked by: [[May, 236353], [Sabelette, 583793]]
- Grammar checked by: [[name, id]]

 

[juoean]

implemented sabelette's comments, adjusted some wording @ the tbolt to avoid counter and sing sentences toward the end.

expanded the final paragraph about lead tuff, not really sure about lead clef vs lead tuff honestly but tuff is necessary on the team either way so just decided to mention both lol, idk any feedback on that part is welcome.

 

[Volk]

Okay, let's finish this up. There are also a few GP things that this still needs, mainly with commas, but I don't really feel like going through that now.

Thunder Wave should be run on every Wigglytuff moveset, as, unlike Clefable, Wigglytuff lacks powerful special coverage and does not want to be dependent on Body Slam's paralysis chance against fast threats.

Bit of a nitpick, but a lack of strong Special coverage isn't really why Wigglytuff should always run Thunder Wave. Wigglytuff should always run Thunder Wave because the move is extremely strong in a metagame that is otherwise solved by speed tiers. By extension, Clefable, which has better Special coverage, still always runs Thunder Wave, at least to my knowledge.

This is particularly important against Fire-types, which have a 25.5% chance to burn Wigglytuff and weaken its STAB moves.

This is just a bit unclear to me. I think you mean to say that Wigglytuff especially doesn't want to rely on Body Slam because burn makes it even weaker?

Body Slam can also be a good move to click against a Pokemon that will then be in Seismic Toss range due to the paralysis chance.

Also critical hits are unique to Body Slam, though they are unlikely.

Thunderbolt fails to significantly outdamage Seismic Toss against any Pokemon other than Kingler...

It also gets a 3HKO on Kabutops versus the 4HKO Seismic Toss achieves. I'd call that significant, especially considering Kabutops typically will 3HKO Wigglytuff.

Alternatively, Clefable can be used in the lead slot for its ability to 2HKO Charizard with Blizzard, having a similarly favorable Mr. Mime matchup with Thunder Wave and STAB Body Slam, and also having a strong Psychic to threaten Venomoth; in which case Wigglytuff should be used to provide the team with a bulky Thunder Wave user and Clefable check for later in the game.

I still think this analysis would benefit from an extra sentence or two about why I'd want "two Clefable" on my team. Considering the "cost" you mention at the start of the second paragraph, I would like some idea of what structures Wigglytuff empowers. Just as an example, perhaps the extra Thunder Wave users helps slower threats get going, or something like that.

That's probably fine for now. Wigglytuff is a pretty simple Pokemon and I think a Clefable analysis is on the way. Upon implementing these changes (as you see fit), let me know and mark this as QC n+1/2 because I don't know what number n we are at now. Cheers!

 

[Sabelette]

Let's call it QC 2/2 when yours is implemented, have her add checks and counters + expand overview a little so we can just have this be a full, and I'll recheck it and call that 3/2 lol.

 

[juoean]

i (finally) made some edits in relation volk's qc.

~ i have no idea whether thunder wave is seen as mandatory on clef rn, but regardless i rewrote that part so theres no need to discuss that lol. the thing that is relevant to twave's increased importance really is wiggly being unable to 2HKO Charizard, the prior wording was overly general/vague, and the specific comparison to clef isnt needed either (eg the zard mu is pretty important for mime's twave as well.) obv lmk any feedback etc on my revisions to that paragraph.
~ mentioned stoss not being able to crit per volk's suggestion tho i reorganized it a bit
~ changed the tbolt thing, kabu vs wiggly isnt likely to happen imo and if it does theres prob chip that makes the stoss vs tbolt difference of minimal relevance but lmk if the way i edited this part works etc
~ i did not add anything regarding volk's final suggestion about 'what structures wigglytuff empowers' or etc. the supporting slow teammates idea j isnt really true, and outside of the "if you lead clefable then you need to run back wiggly" as noted at the end i dont rly think wiggly is better suited to specific types of teams or w e? idk, if anyone has suggestions abt team options etc that i should add feel free.
~ should 'wigglytuff as a lead' still be there? i know that at least some ppl think clef lead is just better than wiggly lead, id maybe be inclined to have the last paragraph just focus on why u need back wiggly with lead clef. but im not sure what everyone's views are. anyway i left it for now, ofc can always be CMSd later on if eg we decide to leave it for now and then later wiggly lead totally dies and we can remove it by cms.

 

[Sabelette]

Think this is good but would like a checks and counters section so we can just have a full for it now that we've had two "real" VRs for NU, I think anything B- or higher should get a proper analysis. I know it's Wiggly so it doesn't have anything that's a seriously horrible matchup but still

 

[juoean]

reformatted and added c&c as needed for a full analysis.
lmk if it is good / if i should mark it as GP ready

 

[Sabelette]

Last QC ever then we're sending this to GP finally, mark as GP ready once you read over this

Spoiler

[OVERVIEW]

Wigglytuff is entirely outclassed by Clefable in NU. However, because of how effective Clefable is and because Wigglytuff can do many of the same things, Wigglytuff can be used alongside it as a second but more limited Clefable. Wigglytuff has slightly less bulk than Clefable on both sides, similar utility in Thunder Wave as well as equally strong STAB moves, but very weak coverage moves due to its poor Special stat. In particular, Wigglytuff can be used as a response to the opponent's Clefable, allowing you to preserve your own. (i'd mention extra Twave utility makes it really hard to avoid taking para constantly when you have to face as many as 4 para spreaders)

However, devoting a slot to Wigglytuff comes at a significant cost, particularly since NU is an extremely centralized metagame. Using Wigglytuff generally means either losing out on a potentially dangerous sweeper, or leaving your team vulnerable to certain metagame threats such as Moltres, Electrode or Kingler. While Wigglytuff performs quite consistently when it is used, the limitations it imposes on teambuilding are not always worth it. (expand a bit on weaknesses, like its atrocious Special and terrible Speed)


[SET]
name: (pick a name)
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Seismic Toss
move 3: Hyper Beam
move 4: Body Slam / Blizzard


[SET COMMENTS]
=============

Thunder Wave should be run on every Wigglytuff moveset, helping to compensate for its poor speed, and being generally useful in a fast-paced tier, particularly for a bulky Pokemon such as Wigglytuff. Additionally, Wigglytuff’s inability to 2HKO Charizard makes Thunder Wave even more essential. STAB Hyper Beam is by far Wigglytuff’s most powerful move, having a decent chance to KO Mr. Mime after a Body Slam or Seismic Toss, and in general being a good option against weakened foes or right before Wigglytuff is KOed. Seismic Toss is Wigglytuff’s most spammable move, 3HKOing Mr. Mime and 4HKOing everything else other than opposing Wigglytuff; and due to Wigglytuff’s middling Attack, poor Special, and low crit rate, in many matchups no other move aside from Hyper Beam could significantly outdamage Seismic Toss anyway. Seismic Toss also becomes Wigglytuff’s only decent damaging move if it gets burned on the turn it paralyzes Charizard or any other Fire type with Thunder Wave.

Body Slam is often the preferred fourth move, enabling Wigglytuff to threaten Nidoking with Paralysis, and providing a second spammable move alongside Seismic Toss, making Wigglytuff less predictable. In particular, being able to use Body Slam to threaten Paralysis rather than being entirely dependent on Thunder Wave makes it more difficult for Nidoking to switch in for free. On the other hand, Running Body Slam alongside Seismic Toss does leave Golem as a decent Wigglytuff switchin, since Golem is immune to Thunder Wave, speed ties Wigglytuff, and avoids a 3HKO from Seismic Toss even after a Body Slam. Blizzard is Wigglytuff’s best coverage option for Golem that does not significantly compromise its other matchups, 2HKOing Golem about half the time, while also dealing 38% minimum to Nidoking thereby leaving it in range of Blastoise’s Surf or Mr. Mime’s Psychic. However, note that Blizzard does minimal damage against Pokemon it does not hit super effectively due to Wigglytuff’s poor Special, so it leaves Wigglytuff very reliant on Seismic Toss.

Wigglytuff can be used as a lead, since it has a very favorable matchup against Mr. Mime leads and an acceptable matchup against lead Charizard, while preventing Venomoth from switching in safely due to Thunder Wave and STAB Body Slam. Alternatively, Clefable can be used in the lead slot for its ability to 2HKO Charizard with Blizzard, having a similarly favorable Mr. Mime matchup with Thunder Wave and STAB Body Slam, and also having a strong Psychic to threaten Venomoth; in which case Wigglytuff should be used to provide the team with a bulky Thunder Wave user and Clefable check for later in the game.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Bubble Beam provides a guaranteed 2HKO on Golem as well as having a 33% Speed drop chance, but dropping Body Slam for Bubblebeam leaves Wigglytuff without a good move to threaten Nidoking, while dropping Seismic Toss for Bubblebeam leaves Wigglytuff walled by Kabutops. Counter can potentially deal massive damage; however, in practice Wigglytuff's opportunities to use Counter are typically limited to specific Pokemon such as Raticate, Primeape, Pinsir, and opposing Wigglytuff, because Clefable does more damage to it with Blizzard than Body Slam anyway, and Wigglytuff does not force many switches. Thunderbolt can be used to avoid Blastoise’s Counter, while also 3HKOing Kabutops and having a small chance to 2HKO Kingler; however if Kabutops switches into either Body Slam or Hyper Beam then Thunderbolt becomes largely comparable to Seismic Toss against it anyway, while Wigglytuff is not too threatened by Blastoise’s Counter due to its high HP stat, taking less than 50% from a countered Seismic Toss. Sing is a potential option on Wigglytuff, but not a very good one due to its 55% accuracy and Wigglytuff’s abysmal Speed. However, since Wigglytuff can be effective enough with just Thunder Wave, Seismic Toss, and Hyper Beam, Sing can be used in the fourth moveslot for niche matchups such as against opposing Wigglytuff or as a desperation play in an otherwise losing game.

Checks and Counters
===================
(put two asterisks around each of these, example below)
**Ground Types**: Nidoking can switch into Wigglytuff's Thunder Wave and at worst trade with it, outspeeding and 3HKOing it with Earthquake while avoiding a 2HKO from any combination of moves. However, Nidoking does not want to switch into Body Slam. Conversely, Golem has little to fear from a Body Slam + Seismic Toss Wigglytuff and can similarly switch into its Thunder Wave, but risks losing the speed tie and being 2HKOd by Blizzard.

Fire Types: Wigglytuff is at worst 3HKOd by any STAB Fire Blast, sometimes getting 2HKOd by Moltres's Fire Blast, as well as being unable to utilize its STAB Hyper Beam if it gets burned. However, Fire Types generally hate being paralyzed by Wigglytuff's Thunder Wave.

Rock Types: Kabutops can switch into Wigglytuff's Hyper Beam, and take advantage of the recharge turn to either boost with Swords Dance or simply KO a weakened Wigglytuff, depending on the situation. Golem can switch into Wigglytuff's Hyper Beam and either set up a Substitute or KO Wigglytuff with Earthquake.

Chip Damage and Prediction: Most Pokemon can 3HKO Wigglytuff, so in combination with Wigglytuff's poor Speed, a couple strong hits will leave Wigglytuff easily revenge killed by almost any teammate. Also, switching an already paralyzed Pokemon into Thunder Wave or a physically bulky Pokemon into Hyper Beam can protect the Pokemon Wigglytuff was intending to check, and likely force it to trade blows with a different Pokemon instead. (idk if I like this as a title/section, might suggest you just cut this or talk about physically bulky things that can trade hits w it like Kingler instead)

Sleep: Because of its poor speed, Wigglytuff can be vulnerable to Pokemon with Sleep moves such as Venomoth or even Sing Clefable. However, Sleep inducers do not want to switch into Wigglytuff's Thunder Wave.

[CREDITS:]
- Written by: [[juoean, 486979]]
- Quality checked by: [[May, 236353], [Sabelette, 583793], [Volk, 530877]]
- Grammar checked by: [[name, id]]

 

[juoean]

implemented

 

[Sabelette]

Last bit of QC and we'll call this a first draft on GP, lmk when implemented and I'll give it a second look to GP 1/1 it.

Spoiler

[OVERVIEW]

Wigglytuff is entirely outclassed by Clefable in NU. However, Clefable is one of the best Pokemon available, because of how effective Clefable is and because and Wigglytuff can do many of the same things, so Wigglytuff can be used alongside it as a second, (AC) but more limited Clefable. Compared to Clefable, Wigglytuff has slightly less bulk than Clefable, equally strong STAB moves and similar utility in Thunder Wave as well as equally strong STAB moves, (RC) but slightly less bulk and much weaker special coverage very weak coverage moves due to its poor Special stat. In particular, Wigglytuff can be used as a response to the opponent's Clefable, allowing you to preserve your own. (I'd add a sentence here that clarifies the role further, like saying it also can help prevent Mime vs Mime and Clef vs Clef matchups, freeing up your own to do other things)

However, devoting a slot to Wigglytuff comes at a significant cost, particularly since NU is an extremely centralized metagame. Using Wigglytuff leaves you with an overall slower team, (RC) and generally means forgoing either Charizard or a different late game sweeper such as Seadra, Raticate, Electrode, (AC) or Kingler. While Wigglytuff's Thunder Wave utility and relatively neutral matchup spread can help to shore up a team's vulnerabilities, it also gives up the greater offensive potential of a sweeper. (this feels redundant w/ prior sentence, maybe merge the ideas and/or talk about how it can leave a team vulnerable to stuff like Nidoking) Wigglytuff performs quite consistently when it is used, but the limitations it imposes on teambuilding are not always worth it.

[SET]
name: Bulky Support
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Seismic Toss
move 3: Hyper Beam
move 4: Body Slam / Blizzard

[SET COMMENTS]
=============

Thunder Wave should be run on every Wigglytuff moveset, helping always be used to help compensate for its Wigglytuff's poor speed Speed and to ensure Charizard cannot set up in front of it, as Wigglytuff cannot 2HKO it. (period) , and being generally It is also generally useful in a fast-paced tier due to the fast pace of matches, and it gives particularly for a bulky Pokemon such as Wigglytuff extra chances to get ahead due to full paralysis. Additionally, Wigglytuff’s inability to 2HKO Charizard makes Thunder Wave even more essential. Seismic Toss is Wigglytuff’s most spammable move, 3HKOing Mr. Mime and 4HKOing everything else other than opposing Wigglytuff. Due to Wigglytuff's middling Attack, poor Special, and low critical hit rate, its other moves rarely deal significantly more damage than Seismic Toss anyway. It also helps to ensure Wigglytuff does not become useless if burned. STAB Hyper Beam is by far Wigglytuff’s most powerful move; (semicolon), (RC) having it has a decent chance to KO Mr. Mime after a Body Slam or Seismic Toss, and in it's generally being a good option against weakened foes or and a good final attack right before Wigglytuff is KOed. Seismic Toss is Wigglytuff’s most spammable move, 3HKOing Mr. Mime and 4HKOing everything else other than opposing Wigglytuff; and due to Wigglytuff’s middling Attack, poor Special, and low crit rate, in many matchups no other move aside from Hyper Beam could significantly outdamage Seismic Toss anyway. Seismic Toss also becomes Wigglytuff’s only decent damaging move if it gets burned on the turn it paralyzes Charizard or any other Fire type with Thunder Wave.

Body Slam is often the preferred fourth move, enabling Wigglytuff to threaten Nidoking with Paralysis paralysis, (RC) and providing a second spammable move alongside Seismic Toss, making Wigglytuff less predictable. In particular, being able to use Body Slam to threaten Paralysis paralysis rather than being entirely dependent on Thunder Wave makes it more difficult for Nidoking to switch in for free. On the other hand, Running using a Body Slam alongside + Seismic Toss set does leave Golem as a decent Wigglytuff switchin makes the Golem matchup difficult, since Golem is immune to Thunder Wave, speed Speed ties Wigglytuff, and avoids a 3HKO from Seismic Toss even after a Body Slam. Blizzard is Wigglytuff’s best coverage option for Golem that does not significantly compromise its other matchups, 2HKOing Golem it about half the time, while also dealing and it also deals 38% minimum to Nidoking, (AC) thereby leaving it in range of Blastoise’s Surf or Mr. Mime’s Psychic. However, note that Blizzard does minimal damage against Pokemon it does not hit super effectively neutral targets due to Wigglytuff’s poor Special, so it leaves Wigglytuff very reliant on Seismic Toss.

Wigglytuff can be used as a lead, since it has a very favorable matchup against Mr. Mime leads and an acceptable matchup against lead Charizard, (RC) while preventing Venomoth from switching in safely due to Thunder Wave and STAB Body Slam. Alternatively, Clefable can be used in the lead slot for its ability to 2HKO Charizard with Blizzard, (RC) having a and similarly favorable Mr. Mime matchup with Thunder Wave and STAB Body Slam, and it can also use also having a strong Psychic to threaten Venomoth; in which this case, (AC) Wigglytuff should be used to provide the team with a bulky Thunder Wave user and Clefable check for later in the game. (I would add a quick sentence or two here about how to use Wiggly in back if you don't lead Clef; I think you can skip the useful teammates bit since it's obviously gonna be big 5 most times)

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Bubble Beam provides a guaranteed 2HKO on Golem as well as having and a 33% Speed drop chance, but dropping Body Slam for Bubblebeam Bubble Beam leaves Wigglytuff without a good move to threaten Nidoking; (semicolon) , (RC) while dropping Seismic Toss for Bubblebeam Bubble Beam leaves Wigglytuff walled by Kabutops. Counter can potentially deal massive damage; however, in practice Wigglytuff's opportunities to use Counter are typically limited to specific Pokemon such as Raticate, Wigglytuff, and rare targets like Primeape, (RC) and Pinsir, and opposing Wigglytuff, because Clefable does more damage to it with Blizzard than Body Slam anyway, and Wigglytuff does not force many switches. Thunderbolt can be used to avoid Blastoise’s Counter, while also 3HKOing Kabutops, (AC) and rarely having a small chance to 2HKO Kingler; however, (AC) if Kabutops switches into either Body Slam or Hyper Beam, (AC) Seismic Toss will 3HKO it, making it comparable to Thunderbolt. then Thunderbolt becomes largely comparable to Seismic Toss against it anyway, while Wigglytuff is also not too threatened by Blastoise’s Counter due to its high HP stat, taking less than 50% from a countered Counter on Seismic Toss. Sing is a potential option on Wigglytuff, but not a very good one due to its 55% accuracy and Wigglytuff’s abysmal Speed. However, since Wigglytuff can be effective enough with just Thunder Wave, Seismic Toss, and Hyper Beam, Sing can be used in the fourth moveslot for niche matchups, (AC) such as against opposing Wigglytuff or and as a desperation play desperate move in an otherwise losing game.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Ground-types Types**: Nidoking can switch into Wigglytuff's Thunder Wave and at worst trade with usually defeat it, outspeeding and 3HKOing it with Earthquake while avoiding a 2HKO from any combination of moves. However, Nidoking does not want to switch into Body Slam or Blizzard. Conversely, Golem has little to fear from a Body Slam + Seismic Toss Wigglytuff and can similarly switch into its Thunder Wave, but it risks losing the speed Speed tie and being 2HKOed by Blizzard.

**Fire-types Types**: Wigglytuff is at worst 3HKOed by any STAB Fire Blast, sometimes getting 2HKOed by Moltres's Fire Blast. (period), as well as A burn also makes Wigglytuff being unable to utilize its STAB Hyper Beam if it gets burned. However, Fire-types Types generally hate being paralyzed by Wigglytuff's Thunder Wave.

**Rock-types Types**: Kabutops can switch into Wigglytuff's Hyper Beam, (RC) and take advantage of the recharge turn to either boost with Swords Dance or simply KO a weakened Wigglytuff, depending on the situation. Golem can also switch into Wigglytuff's Hyper Beam and either set up a Substitute or KO Wigglytuff attack with Earthquake.

**Sleep**: Because of its poor speed Speed, Wigglytuff can be vulnerable to Pokemon with Sleep sleep-inducing moves, (AC) such as Venomoth or even Sing Clefable. However, Sleep sleep inducers do not want to switch into Wigglytuff's Thunder Wave, nor does and Venomoth doesn't want to switch into Body Slam.

[CREDITS:] (note the removed colon in the tag)
- Written by: [[juoean, 486979]]
- Quality checked by: [[May, 236353], [Sabelette, 583793], [Volk, 530877]]
- Grammar checked by: [[name, id]]

Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/juoean.486979/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/may.236353/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sabelette.583793/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/volk.530877/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sabelette.583793/

 

[Sabelette]

GP 1/1, lets get this in the books

Spoiler

[OVERVIEW]

Wigglytuff is entirely outclassed by Clefable in NU. However, Clefable is one of the best Pokemon available, (AC) and Wigglytuff can do many of the same things, so Wigglytuff can be used alongside it as a second, but more limited Clefable. Compared to Clefable, Wigglytuff has equally strong STAB moves and similar utility in Thunder Wave but slightly less bulk and very weak coverage moves due to its poor Special stat. In particular, Wigglytuff can be used as a response to the opponent's opposing Clefable, (RC) or in some cases as a response to Mr. Mime, allowing your own Clefable to be used for other things rather than being locked into playing a Clefable mirror. (removed paragraph space bc they're both short) However, devoting a slot to Wigglytuff comes at a significant cost, since NU is an extremely centralized metagame. Using Wigglytuff leaves you with an overall slower team and generally means forgoing either Charizard or a different late-game (AH) sweeper, (AC) such as Seadra, Raticate, Electrode, or Kingler. Wigglytuff performs quite consistently when it is used, but the limitations it imposes on teambuilding are not always worth it.

[SET]
name: Bulky Support
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Seismic Toss Hyper Beam
move 3: Hyper Beam Seismic Toss
move 4: Body Slam / Blizzard

[SET COMMENTS]
=============

Thunder Wave should always be used to help compensate for Wigglytuff's poor Speed and to ensure Charizard cannot set up in front of it, as Wigglytuff cannot 2HKO it. It is also generally useful due to the fast pace of matches, and it gives a bulky Pokemon, (AC) such as Wigglytuff itself, extra chances to get an advantage from full paralysis. STAB Hyper Beam is by far Wigglytuff’s most powerful move; it has a decent chance to KO Mr. Mime after a Body Slam or Seismic Toss, it is generally a good option against weakened foes, and it is a good final attack right before Wigglytuff is KOed. Seismic Toss is Wigglytuff’s most spammable move, 3HKOing Mr. Mime and 4HKOing everything else other than opposing Wigglytuff. Due to Wigglytuff’s middling Attack, poor Special, and low critical hit rate, alternative moves aside from Hyper Beam rarely could deal significantly more damage anyway. Seismic Toss also helps to ensure Wigglytuff does not become useless if burned.

Body Slam is often the preferred fourth move, enabling Wigglytuff to threaten Nidoking with paralysis and providing a second spammable move alongside Seismic Toss, making Wigglytuff less predictable. In particular, being able to use Body Slam to threaten paralysis rather than being entirely dependent depending on Thunder Wave makes it more difficult for Nidoking to switch in for free. On the other hand, using a Body Slam + Seismic Toss set makes the Golem matchup difficult, since Golem is immune to Thunder Wave, Speed ties Wigglytuff, and avoids a 3HKO from Seismic Toss even after a Body Slam. Blizzard is Wigglytuff’s best coverage option for Golem without compromising the Nidoking matchup; (semicolon), 2HKOing it it 2HKOes Golem about half the time, and it also deals 38% minimum to Nidoking, leaving it in range of Blastoise’s Surf or Mr. Mime’s Psychic. However, note that Blizzard does minimal damage against neutral targets due to Wigglytuff’s poor Special, so it leaves Wigglytuff very reliant on Seismic Toss.

Wigglytuff can be used as a lead, since it has a very favorable matchup against Mr. Mime and an acceptable matchup against Charizard while preventing Venomoth from switching in safely due to Thunder Wave and STAB Body Slam. Alternatively, Clefable can be used in the lead slot for its ability to 2HKO Charizard with Blizzard and similarly favorable Mr. Mime matchup, and it can also use Psychic to threaten Venomoth; in this case, (AC) Wigglytuff should be used to provide the team with a bulky Thunder Wave user and Clefable check for later in the game. (again removed paragraph spacing) Outside of the lead, Wigglytuff is typically best used as a Clefable switch-in (AH), after which it can paralyze it with Thunder Wave and trade hits with Seismic Toss or Body Slam. Wigglytuff can also switch into a predicted Seismic Toss or Thunder Wave from Mr. Mime, but Wigglytuff does not want to switch into Mr. Mime's Psychic, (AC) as it can be 2HKOed with one critical hit.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Bubble Beam provides a guaranteed 2HKO on Golem and a 33% Speed drop chance, but dropping Body Slam for Bubble Beam leaves Wigglytuff without a good move to threaten Nidoking; dropping Seismic Toss for Bubble Beam leaves Wigglytuff walled by Kabutops. Counter can potentially deal massive damage; however, Wigglytuff's opportunities to use Counter are typically limited to specific Pokemon such as Raticate, Wigglytuff, and rare targets like Primeape and Pinsir. (period) , because Clefable does more damage to it with Blizzard than Body Slam anyway, and Wigglytuff does not force many switches. Thunderbolt can be used to avoid Blastoise’s Counter, 3HKO Kabutops, and rarely 2HKO Kingler; however, if Kabutops switches into either Body Slam or Hyper Beam, (AC) then Seismic Toss will 3HKO it, making it comparable to Thunderbolt. Wigglytuff is also not too threatened by Blastoise’s Counter due to its high HP stat, taking less than 50% from a counter on Counter on Seismic Toss. Sing is a potential option, but it's not a very good one due to its 55% accuracy and Wigglytuff’s abysmal Speed. However, since Wigglytuff can be effective enough with just Thunder Wave, Seismic Toss, and Hyper Beam, Sing can be used in the fourth moveslot for niche matchups, (AC) such as against opposing Wigglytuff, and as a desperation play in an otherwise losing game.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Ground-types**: Nidoking can switch into Wigglytuff's Thunder Wave and usually defeat it, outspeeding and 3HKOing it with Earthquake while avoiding a 2HKO from any combination of moves. However, Nidoking does not want to switch into Body Slam or Blizzard. Conversely, Golem has little to fear from a Body Slam + Seismic Toss Wigglytuff and can similarly switch into its Thunder Wave, but it risks losing the Speed tie and being 2HKOed by Blizzard.

**Fire-types**: Wigglytuff is at worst 3HKOed by any STAB Fire Blast aside from, (RC) sometimes getting 2HKOed by Moltres's, (AC) which usually 2HKOes Fire Blast. A burn also makes Wigglytuff unable to utilize use its STAB Hyper Beam effectively. However, Fire-types generally hate being paralyzed by Thunder Wave.

**Rock-types**: Kabutops can switch into Hyper Beam and take advantage of the recharge turn to either boost with Swords Dance or simply KO a weakened Wigglytuff, depending on the situation. Golem can also switch into Hyper Beam and either set up a Substitute or attack with Earthquake.

**Sleep**: Because of its poor Speed, Wigglytuff can be vulnerable to Pokemon with sleep-inducing moves, such as Venomoth or even Sing Clefable. However, sleep inducers do not want to switch into Thunder Wave, and Venomoth does not want to switch into Body Slam.

[CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/juoean.486979/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/may.236353/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sabelette.583793/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/volk.530877/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sabelette.583793/

 

[juoean]

implemented