Pokémon Weavile

[KOTR]

Weavile, on the other hand, is super fast. Weavile's main niche comes from its super speed, which allows it to revenge kill Pokemon, while not having to use priority.

What good is speed when you're frail, arguably underpowered (120 , and your coverage sucks? She needs to rack up quick OHKOs but she's poorly equipped to do, which means there's ample opportunity for her pathetic defenses to be preyed upon.

She's not good, dude.

 

[Rotosect]

What good is speed when you're frail, arguably underpowered (120 , and your coverage sucks? She needs to rack up quick OHKOs but she's poorly equipped to do, which means there's ample opportunity for her pathetic defenses to be preyed upon.

She's not good, dude.

You can't compare Weavile to Bisharp, acknowledge the latter has only 5 extra base attack, and then say Weavile is "underpowered".
They have the same STAB Knock Off, Weavile gets a much better secondary STAB in Ice Punch rather than Iron Head (yes I know Steel is no longer the poor excuse of an offensive type it used to be, but ice is still much better) which only has 5 less base power and Low Kick is actually a better coverage move than... what coverage move does Bisharp run exactly? It just runs its STABs.
Sucker Punch might be twice as strong as Ice Shard, but it's still Sucker Punch - if your opponent can play around it (see: Talonflame, Sub Kyurem-B, anything with WoW...) you're screwed.

Besides their Knock Off and Pursuit STABs you're comparing apples and oranges here. They serve different purposes. Bisharp capitalizes on Defoggers, Weavile revenge kills stuff weak to ice, which OU is full of. Weavile has a worse defensive type, Bisharp is much slower. Weavile has a weaker priority move, Bisharp has a less reliable one.

It seems clear to me Weavile isn't outclassed by Bisharp as you're saying.

 

[Terminate421]

What good is speed when you're frail, arguably underpowered (120 , and your coverage sucks? She needs to rack up quick OHKOs but she's poorly equipped to do, which means there's ample opportunity for her pathetic defenses to be preyed upon.

She's not good, dude.

So are you just hellbent on making Weavile look terrible when it's clearly effective?

Priority attacks are something that Weavile needs to watch out for, and Weavile can hit pretty hard on it's own.

That has been the same since GENERATION 4.

Mach Punch was a thing back then, and Mach Punch is a thing now. Weavile hits hard enough to kill alot of things. Virtually nothing has changed for Weavile's situation other than it having a nice buff to Knock-off.

Weavile also outspeeds pretty much every dragon it needs to go up in OU against:

Garchomp
Latios
Hydreigon
Noivern

Even then, Weavile is useful from outside hitting them.

Learn to look at a pokemon for more than just stats, sir.

 

[VanGru]

So are you just hellbent on making Weavile look terrible when it's clearly effective?

Priority attacks are something that Weavile needs to watch out for, and Weavile can hit pretty hard on it's own.

That has been the same since GENERATION 4.

Mach Punch was a thing back then, and Mach Punch is a thing now. Weavile hits hard enough to kill alot of things. Virtually nothing has changed for Weavile's situation other than it having a nice buff to Knock-off.

Weavile also outspeeds pretty much every dragon it needs to go up in OU against:

Garchomp
Latios
Hydreigon
Noivern

Even then, Weavile is useful from outside hitting them.

Learn to look at a pokemon for more than just stats, sir.

The thing with weavile is, you must know how to use it. It really isnt your common physical attacker, he is there to finish the job or to trap certain counters. Imagine him to be an assasin, he really shouldnt come out until the opposing poke(s) are weakened or he can ohko.

 

[effyouzion]

As a revenge killer, your main goal is to be able to outspeed and kill a pokemon, given a free switch in. Weavile doesn't need to be able to OHKO pokemon to act as a revenge killer, and also doesn't need to have bulk. All you need is to be able to kill common sweepers quickly, so that they don't sweep your entire team. Ghost and dark are both phenomenal offensive types, so they're useful in killing popular offensive pokemon, like Choice Band Dragonite, Garchomp, Zygarde, Gengar, Alakazam, Salamence, Aegislash, etc. It doesn't need brute force to be effective, it just needs speed. I won't argue with you that its power can be underwhelming, but that alone doesn't mean it isn't good.

Lastly, its coverage doesn't suck. Low Kick is a very helpful move with great coverage. It's most often used on heavy targets, like Ttar and Heatran, so basically you have a Close Combat as coverage that doesn't cause defense drops. It's worthless on light pokemon, but how many light Rock, Steel, Dark, or Ice pokemon are in OU?
-----
TRC., and other proponent's of solely the All Out Attacker set: I moved the SD set to other options, as it generally is way too frail to use it, and slashed Ice Shard with Pursuit on the CB set. What do people generally think? Should a CB set just go to OO as well?

I feel like CB has merit. With that you have a very high chance to out run and OHKO lead Deoxys-D, something Bisharp and Tyranitar can't do. I just feel like pursuit is a liability there because you really want low kick, knock off, ice punch and ice shard.

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 296-350 (97.3 - 115.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

With one mon you can counter Deoxys-D and scarf Garchomp, two staples of HO. Pretty solid IMO.

 

[Rotosect]

That's pretty impressive actually. I can't think of another pokemon in OU that can outspeed and OHKO Deoxys-D.
That could single-handedly force an hyper-offensive team using Deo-D as a suicide hazard lead to rage quit after the very first turn.

 

[Jaroda]

I was curious so I had to check that.

252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 283-335 (93 - 110.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Krookodile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 290-344 (95.3 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Deo-D runs speed EVs right? Well these two guys are also capable of outspeeding and getting a OHKO on Deo-D.

Anyway for CB Weavile I would argue that the ability to use a strong LO Knock Off and being able to switch to Ice Shard/Pursuit to finish certain threats off are more important for a pokemon so frail. However, being able to potentially OHKO Dragonite through Multiscale is pretty nice.

 

[effyouzion]

I was curious so I had to check that.

252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 283-335 (93 - 110.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Krookodile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 290-344 (95.3 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Deo-D runs speed EVs right? Well these two guys are also capable of outspeeding and getting a OHKO on Deo-D.

Anyway for CB Weavile I would argue that the ability to use a strong LO Knock Off and being able to switch to Ice Shard/Pursuit to finish certain threats off are more important for a pokemon so frail. However, being able to potentially OHKO Dragonite through Multiscale is pretty nice.

I'll give you Scolipede, he's viable (although as an attacker less so than Weavile). CB Krook is never happening in OU tho.

 

[Jaroda]

When I hear "in OU", I basically think "not Ubers". Regardless of viability I just wanted to see if anything else not banned was capable of one shotting Deo-D. It was possible with Life Orb too, just much less likely.

252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-D: 310-370 (101.9 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Adamant Mega Heracross can outrun minimum speed Deo-D with 126 speed EVs and always OHKO with Pin Missile even with max defense without Stealth Rock. That's insane.

Would Red Card force Weavile out if it used Knock Off?

 

[Shroomisaur]

There are two Weavile "sets" that are best in my opinion, and those are a Sash lead, and a Life Orb all-out-attacker. Really the only difference is the item equipped, because a moveset of Knock Off / Ice Punch / Ice Shard / Low Kick is pretty hard to argue with (aside from the possibility of Pursuit).

Weavile has solid power and excellent natural speed, which is something I've found to be incredibly helpful this gen. With the bulky-offense metagame, and a general disappearance of Scarf users, Weavile honestly seems faster than ever. Priority users have always been a problem for Weavile, but it helps that Weavile has priority of its own to hurt things like Mega Pinsir and chip the last bit of HP off of Talon, etc.

Knock Off was the single biggest buff to Weavile, because it now has a STAB with improved coverage, power, AND utility, all in one move. It's freed Weavile from its "weavile syndrome" of 70 BP attacks, and really lets it shine as an all-out attacker. I think people discounting Weavile's viability simply haven't given it a fair run.

 

[VanGru]

I was curious so I had to check that.

252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 283-335 (93 - 110.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Krookodile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 290-344 (95.3 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Deo-D runs speed EVs right? Well these two guys are also capable of outspeeding and getting a OHKO on Deo-D.

Anyway for CB Weavile I would argue that the ability to use a strong LO Knock Off and being able to switch to Ice Shard/Pursuit to finish certain threats off are more important for a pokemon so frail. However, being able to potentially OHKO Dragonite through Multiscale is pretty nice.

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 315-374 (97.2 - 115.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
No need for CB to do that.

 

[Jaroda]

It is if it runs 252 HP that is.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Bumping this from the depths of the sixth page. Surprising that Weavile has been gaining popularity, and yet the last comment on its page is from four months ago.

I still think the set in the OP is its best one in OU. Weavile is nice because it checks the genies and Psychic/Grass Greninja, thanks to its excellent Speed. It still struggles a bit, because it's weaker than most physical attackers, but it's still able to pull its weight. Its most common competition comes from Mamoswine, who has better coverage and more power, but STAB Knock Off and 45 better speed is enough for some teams to choose Weavile.

Any other comments? Has anyone tried anything other than the bread and butter LO 4 attacks set recently?

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

Bumping this from the depths of the sixth page. Surprising that Weavile has been gaining popularity, and yet the last comment on its page is from four months ago.

I still think the set in the OP is its best one in OU. Weavile is nice because it checks the genies and Psychic/Grass Greninja, thanks to its excellent Speed. It still struggles a bit, because it's weaker than most physical attackers, but it's still able to pull its weight. Its most common competition comes from Mamoswine, who has better coverage and more power, but STAB Knock Off and 45 better speed is enough for some teams to choose Weavile.

Any other comments? Has anyone tried anything other than the bread and butter LO 4 attacks set recently?

weavile can 1hko greninja even if it is a neutral hit

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pure Water Greninja: 270-320 (94.4 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

But I prefer using 4 attacks lo over swords dance because low kick screws over a lot of stuff (especially since most of the time bisharp/ttar/heatran etc aren't expecting it)

 

[Cornonjacob]

One big advantage that Weavile's Pursuit has over Bisharp's is her blazing speed.
When trying to Pursuit trap as Bisharp, you often have to play mind games with your opponent. You can either Sucker Punch and risk letting them get away, or you could Pursuit and risk your opponent deciding to stay in and strike you first, sometimes for fatal damage, or in the case of a fresh choice Latios, tricking you. Weavile's speed puts her opponents in a no win situation, such as the Latios, because even if they choose to stay in, she's still going to outspeed and kill anyway.

 

[effyouzion]

One big advantage that Weavile's Pursuit has over Bisharp's is her blazing speed.
When trying to Pursuit trap as Bisharp, you often have to play mind games with your opponent. You can either Sucker Punch and risk letting them get away, or you could Pursuit and risk your opponent deciding to stay in and strike you first, sometimes for fatal damage, or in the case of a fresh choice Latios, tricking you. Weavile's speed puts her opponents in a no win situation, such as the Latios, because even if they choose to stay in, she's still going to outspeed and kill anyway.

The difference is Bisharp (and Tyranitar) can use max HP and an assault vest set to actually switch in on the Latis, survive two attacks, and then checkmate them with pursuit, effectively taking them out of the game for good and paving the way for a Keldeo or Landorus sweep. Weavile can only revenge kill the Latis.

Weavile uses pursuit a lot differently than the other users. It's there to help you finish off weakened threats, not trap anything specifically.

It's because of this that I find Weavile hard to fit onto teams. You need to specifically build a team with him in mind, because ideally you want some slow pivots to bring him in the game.

 

[StairFall]

Weavile is an interesting pokemon, and even more interesting are the flaws that hold it back. It has so much speed that it borders on superfluous, however most things it wants to revenge kill, most importantly scarf Lati@s and scarfchomp outspeed it despite its blazing speed and it's forced to use low bp priority in ice shard. Its priority move is necessary yet also redundant. It's also got some sever 4MMS. You can run pursuit and knock off plus an ice move and low kick, you can run ice shard and punch, plus a dark move and low kick, you can run both ice moves and a dark move without low kick and vice versa while also running swords dance too.

It's a pokemon that's held back by having to choose between power or utility, and even its "powerful moves" don't break 100 bp save for highest damage bracket low kicks. It's basically a physical greninja. Great coverage and outspeeds almost the entire unboosted meta, but without protean and its lower BP moves it's simply not powerful enough. In theory a swords dance set gives it all the power it needs, but the ubiquity of scarf pokemon and priority users puts a hard stop to it and he's so frail there's no good time to set up swords dance.

Personally the best Weavile set is:
Weavile @ Life Orb
trait: pressure
4hp/252atk/252spe
jolly nature
-knock off
-pursuit
-ice shard
-low kick

I feel this set best capitalizes on what Weavile's strengths are. It revenge kills dragons not named Charizard-X as well as both genies and Mega Pinsir, pursuit traps the Latis and gengar, knock off is just a general annoyance for almost all pokemon switching in, and low kick rounds out the coverage (though with the dark buff/steel nerf this gen it's arguably unnecessary, I'd even run both ice and both dark moves). Ultimately Weavile just doesn't have a strong place in the meta, and doesn't really do what any other pokemon doesn't. One of the fastest pursuits which is also STAB in the game and powerful priority only barely weaker than Mamoswine is nice, but not enough to dedicate a team slot too. If it had a more usable ability such as technician I could see it rising up, but I'm getting off topic now and won't bother with theorymon.

 

[Karxrida]

Weavile honestly shouldn't be Pursuit trapping; the only things you're realstically trapping nowadays are the Latis, which you can't switch into and can actually lose to them if you mispredict (iirc Latios can survive a LO Pursuit if it doesn't switch out). T-Tar and Bisharp can actually switch into them and produce a better "checkmate" scenario since the Latis can't beat them (HP Fighting aside against Bisharp, but that's still a win for the Bisharp player if they wanted to stop a Defog). You should just stick to LO 4 Attacks with Ice Punch instead of Pursuit if you're using Weavile.

 

[effyouzion]

Weavile honestly shouldn't be Pursuit trapping; the only things you're realstically trapping nowadays are the Latis, which you can't switch into and can actually lose to them if you mispredict (iirc Latios can survive a LO Pursuit if it doesn't switch out). T-Tar and Bisharp can actually switch into them and produce a better "checkmate" scenario since the Latis can't beat them (HP Fighting aside against Bisharp, but that's still a win for the Bisharp player if they wanted to stop a Defog). You should just stick to LO 4 Attacks with Ice Punch instead of Pursuit if you're using Weavile.

I disagree, the fast pursuit is really nice for finishing weakened threats. You can come in after a kill and revenge virtually anything that's low enough because switching does no good. Ice punch is much less useful than knock off on everything that isn't 4x weak to ice, and the things that are 4x weak to ice will die to ice shard anyway.

The only OU mons that are only 2x weak to ice but not weak to knock off are Zapdos, Breloom, mega Pinsir and Hippowdon. It's a bad idea to stay in on Zapdos and Hippowdon, and if you're just hitting them on the switch knock off is the better choice. You need to use ice shard on mega Pinsir and Breloom because both carry very strong priority.