It's ironic (and funny) in that your post actually revived this topic, which hadn't seen a post in one and a half months. It probably would've gone away on its own if you hadn't said anything.
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Other Viable Megas
- Thread starter thedotwalks
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My ranking:
Gengar, Kangaskhan, Blaziken: broken as all hell
Lucario: broken as all heck
Pinsir, X-zard, T-tar: pretty strong
Y-zard, Venusaur, Garchomp, Gyarados, Scizor: really strong
Mawile, Medicham, Heracross, Manectric, Blastoise, Gardevoir, Aggron: strong, but can't really be put on any team
Houndoom, Absol, Alakazam, Ampharos: need some team support but can shine with a skilled player
Banette: can usually accomplish at least one thing per match
Abomasnow: requires a tremendous amount of team support
Aerodactyl: barely even an upgrade over its base form
I think people are underestimating a couple of these Megas a lot.
Special MAbomasnow is more or less a full stop to Rotom-W and hits incredibly hard with Blizzard on whatever it tries to Volt Switch out to. It's also a decent check to CroCune, being able to 3HKO with Giga Drain while +1 Scald is only a 6HKO at best. It's difficult to use and requires a lot of support but man, those Blizzards...
MAerodactyl looks more or less the same on the surface, but remember that it now outspeeds Pokémon that were previously faster, like Mega Manectric and Jolteon, and can afford to run some HP investment instead of absolutely requiring max speed like it used to, making it surprisingly durable and increasing the viability of sets like SubRoost. Also Tough Claws isn't completely useless: pretty much all of Aero's coverage moves get a boost, and a base 80 power Flying move in Aerial Ace is still respectable.
MManectric is really underrated and quite amazing. It's really useful for trolling physical attackers and makes a good switch-in to Rotom's Volt Switch with Lightning Rod. Because Mega Evolving occurs after switching, Manectric is uniquely able to debuff a switch-in and then escape in one smooth, graceful movement. If you predict a Ground-type switch-in, you can hit them super-effectively with a +1 Hidden Power [Ice] (or Flamethrower slaps Excadrill and Mamoswine), while possibly surviving the -1 attack. It's synergy with other Intimidators (like Gyarados and Landorus-T) make creating momentum and set-up opportunities really easy. It shares similarities with Rotom-W but has a different arsenal of tools which give it a separate role, and as a momentum-grabber it is second to none, especially now that Genesect is banned.
Special MAbomasnow is more or less a full stop to Rotom-W and hits incredibly hard with Blizzard on whatever it tries to Volt Switch out to. It's also a decent check to CroCune, being able to 3HKO with Giga Drain while +1 Scald is only a 6HKO at best. It's difficult to use and requires a lot of support but man, those Blizzards...
MAerodactyl looks more or less the same on the surface, but remember that it now outspeeds Pokémon that were previously faster, like Mega Manectric and Jolteon, and can afford to run some HP investment instead of absolutely requiring max speed like it used to, making it surprisingly durable and increasing the viability of sets like SubRoost. Also Tough Claws isn't completely useless: pretty much all of Aero's coverage moves get a boost, and a base 80 power Flying move in Aerial Ace is still respectable.
MManectric is really underrated and quite amazing. It's really useful for trolling physical attackers and makes a good switch-in to Rotom's Volt Switch with Lightning Rod. Because Mega Evolving occurs after switching, Manectric is uniquely able to debuff a switch-in and then escape in one smooth, graceful movement. If you predict a Ground-type switch-in, you can hit them super-effectively with a +1 Hidden Power [Ice] (or Flamethrower slaps Excadrill and Mamoswine), while possibly surviving the -1 attack. It's synergy with other Intimidators (like Gyarados and Landorus-T) make creating momentum and set-up opportunities really easy. It shares similarities with Rotom-W but has a different arsenal of tools which give it a separate role, and as a momentum-grabber it is second to none, especially now that Genesect is banned.
I love irony. How could I resist?
Anyway, here's my (revised) opinion. By themselves? Sure, most of them are good (discluding maybe Mega Banette). They're all pretty strong. That ain't the point. (Note how I said 'good', not 'viable') You only have one mega slot, and clearly you're going to use that on the best goddamn mega you can find. If you had infinite megaslots? Sure, maybe that'd be different. But at the moment, there's no real reason to choose Mega Banette over, say, Mega Pinsir.
There's a difference between 'good' and 'viable', and that's what's important.
Mega bannette is amazing. Other than talonflame and pinsir, it is fully capable of taking out any sweeper in the game and can act as a solid revenge killer against any low health opponents.
Just because m-pinsir is a better sweeper than m-banette doesn't mean you'd automatically pick pinsir over banette.
Banette is primarily a prankster mon with better offensive capabilities than all other prankster mons except thundurus.
I'm kinda disappointed that Kang, Luke, and the zards set this precedent that a mega has to be an unstoppable sweeper. A lot of other megas suffer for that misconception, zard y, a wall breaker being a prime example of that.
Manectric is for intimidate and the volt switch. And in a punch he can be a special sweeper.
Banette, as earlier stated, is a prankster mon that can still threaten opponents with sucker punch.
Medicham is a wall breaker. Punch up holes in those bulky mons and let your sweepers deal with the rest
Heracross is a physical stall breaker (think kyurem-b's new role but with physical skill link attacks, same concept however)
However, people like to say those megas suck because they're not fast enough, or are weak to talonflame or aegislash (so?)
Now mega zam and aerodactyl... They're kinda bad, because they ARE trying to be sweepers, and they suck.
While Mega Blastoise is the best spinner out there, and can do a lot of damage even besides that, his big problem is that he's in competition with other megas in a metagame that has defog. If the rest of your team is built, you haven't happened to use your mega, and you need a spinner, Megastoise will fit in perfectly. But when you're comparing him directly against pokemon who can sweep entire teams on their own with little issue, the opportunity cost just isn't worth it.
Not sure if we are allowed to discuss unreleased stuff, but OmegaDonut + others leaked the stats of Mega Latis:
Latios: 80\130\100\160\120\110
Latias: 80\100\120\140\150\110
Same abilities and types as non-mega formes. Serebii also added them on his site.
Latios loses LO but the most significant gain he got is the capability of going mixed with a set like Outrage/DD/EQ/Draco Meteor.
Latias is looking great on the defensive side and packs quite a punch for being so bulky. Since she does get sustain, I wouldn't think that most of her common sets are negatively affected by losing an item. Personally I feel Mega Latias is better than Latios for this reason, her mega lets her do what she already did but better with those beefy 80/120/150 defenses.
Latios: 80\130\100\160\120\110
Latias: 80\100\120\140\150\110
Same abilities and types as non-mega formes. Serebii also added them on his site.
Latios loses LO but the most significant gain he got is the capability of going mixed with a set like Outrage/DD/EQ/Draco Meteor.
Latias is looking great on the defensive side and packs quite a punch for being so bulky. Since she does get sustain, I wouldn't think that most of her common sets are negatively affected by losing an item. Personally I feel Mega Latias is better than Latios for this reason, her mega lets her do what she already did but better with those beefy 80/120/150 defenses.
unfortunate that they didn't get the rumoured fairy/dragon typing, but that's alright. latios i don't see getting a huge amount of use [makes heatran his bitch, though], but latias? bulky as fuck, perhaps the go-to choice for maximum balk instead of venu. they're different pokemon of course, but that sheer bulk and still-useful ability are very tasty, as well as her cooler offensive options.
excite for latias at least, even if they're both ugly as shit :c
excite for latias at least, even if they're both ugly as shit :c
Dragon/Fairy Latias would have been absurdly good, especially with that bulk. It's a shame she's not, Psychic typing is so bad. Still, 80/120/150 is really freaking bulky.
Mega Latios is probably gonna be mostly notable for mixed DD sets, now that it has the physical power to make full use of the move.
I am not sure if it is reasonable to discuss about those megas. But does that know mean that Soul Jew will be irrelevant or vice versa? I wonder what GF is planing with them. Not release the most powerful item for the latis Soul Jew or what? Right now, I can only think of Latios going mixed and otherwise not use Mega at all. Maybe we should be glad that Latias didn't get Fairy Typing to Dragon and Multiscale or Latios with adaptility...that just sounds already downright broken.
As a hazard removing mega, he also faces severe competition from support mega-scizor, who packs better physical bulk (70/140 vs Blastoise's 79/120), more utility in knock off, and a way to conserve momentum, act as a more effective pivot, and fit into volt turn with U-Turn. He also has the nice bonus of a solitary weakness. While defog doesn't always fit the same niche as rapid spin, now that spikes are no longer particularly viable m-scizor's going to be the better bet a large percentage of the time.
EDIT: Oh, almost forgot... scizor has the other advantages of reliable recovery in roost and an immunity to toxic, helping him fill the support role much better.
Well you pretty much said all M Scizor had over M Blastoise but dont forget blastoise got a better special bulk, a bit more speed which allows to outspeed some other slows pokemons and defog also "spin" your proper hazards.
Although we regret the lack of recovery with M Blastoise, you can compensate it another coverage move and lets not forget the overall coverage of blastoise is better than scizor's : Can your mega scizor with bullet punch/U turn/ Defog/Roost beats Jellicent, ferrothorn, heatran etc...?(the two latters which can setup and will continue to setup even if your scizor defogs) But then the choice between those megas (Depend also if you want to play your scizor like a supporter or an attacker) highly depend of your team also, if your team needs more momentum and maybe a pseudo physical attacker, a(nother) steel type and cool priority attack you have scizor and if you need a(nother) special attacking water type with strong coverage moves (or pseudo stabs) who is able to spin only your opponent's hazard.
+1 252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 302-356 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 232-274 (83.4 - 98.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 230-272 (70.9 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 272-320 (89.4 - 105.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 250-296 (82.2 - 97.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(yes, I changed it to 130 base Atk)
I dunno, these calcs aren't too awful. Mega Latios' biggest selling point is being the fastest DD user in the game and having STAB Draco Meteor off 160 SpA for wallbreaking potential. These calcs are for a number of Latios' usual checks that would otherwise chuckle at its LO/Specs sets....if you can grab a boost, you can wreck some of its usual checks. You obviously wouldn't stay in on it, Mawile calcs are purely to show that it would have great difficulty switching in.
Compare with LO calcs, with ~1% difference:
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 307-361 (75.9 - 89.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 235-277 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 234-276 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 273-322 (89.8 - 105.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 252-299 (82.8 - 98.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
If you want to use lure Latios, there is a strong case for a Mega. Personally I don't think it's a great idea to run LO on a set-up that's quite fragile with no recovery. The difference between Latios and other DD users is that priority shits all over it versus the more bulky users. It also does have to compete with other Megas, though....like Latias, Charizard X, Pinsir, and Heracross. But Latios' checks are quite predictable and going mixed gives you an opportunity to exploit that.
+1 252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 232-274 (83.4 - 98.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 230-272 (70.9 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 272-320 (89.4 - 105.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 250-296 (82.2 - 97.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(yes, I changed it to 130 base Atk)
I dunno, these calcs aren't too awful. Mega Latios' biggest selling point is being the fastest DD user in the game and having STAB Draco Meteor off 160 SpA for wallbreaking potential. These calcs are for a number of Latios' usual checks that would otherwise chuckle at its LO/Specs sets....if you can grab a boost, you can wreck some of its usual checks. You obviously wouldn't stay in on it, Mawile calcs are purely to show that it would have great difficulty switching in.
Compare with LO calcs, with ~1% difference:
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 307-361 (75.9 - 89.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 235-277 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 234-276 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 273-322 (89.8 - 105.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 252-299 (82.8 - 98.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
If you want to use lure Latios, there is a strong case for a Mega. Personally I don't think it's a great idea to run LO on a set-up that's quite fragile with no recovery. The difference between Latios and other DD users is that priority shits all over it versus the more bulky users. It also does have to compete with other Megas, though....like Latias, Charizard X, Pinsir, and Heracross. But Latios' checks are quite predictable and going mixed gives you an opportunity to exploit that.
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The 50/50 on "what charizard am I facing today" is really obnoxious.
You can kind of guess by team composition but if you guess wrong you're literally in the same boat as you would have been with Lucario, though I guess they are slower unless X dances.
Just wanted to rant because I'd never thought I'd see the day where Charizard would be so good in OU to the point where it would frustrate me.
You can kind of guess by team composition but if you guess wrong you're literally in the same boat as you would have been with Lucario, though I guess they are slower unless X dances.
Just wanted to rant because I'd never thought I'd see the day where Charizard would be so good in OU to the point where it would frustrate me.
I'd never recommend bullet punch on mega-scizor; I'd much prefer knock off in that slot, allowing it, yes, to beat Jellicent, and severely cripple Heatran as it switches in. Sure, it can't *beat* forretress, but since at least half of all mega scizors right now are running swords dance, Forretress is a very poor switch in to mega scizor at the current moment. Plus it can't do anything back to mega-scizor and can be worn down and eventually KOd by repeated knock offs while any hazards it lays are defogged away.
Really, Blastoise's only advantages over M-Scizor are the ability to spin rather than defog, which, admittedly, in this mega is niche; it's decent special attack (although starmie has better thanks to life orb) *combined* with it's bulk; and scald, as the decent burn chance can really aid it. And phazing potentially, since if you're using a rapid spinner it can be generally assumed that you've got hazards of your own.
I think Mega Alakazam is one of the worst megas. The stats boosts are nice and so is Trace, but Magic Guard is one of the best abilities to have in the game, especially for a frail Pokemon like Alakazam.
Mega-Venu is very annoying but can be killed in 2-3 hits. Gliscor without holding an item can destroy Venu with Acrobatics.
Although it wasn't the smartest thing to do, I once took out Mega Venasaur using a Greninja using a King's Rock and hitting with Extrasensory.
Yo
If you're having trouble with shitty Deosharp HO teams (lmfao talking about banning swagplay before Deo-D,) try using Mega Heracross (and Rotom-W and/or Skarmory to deal with its bird problem.)
I'm serious. Nothing in the meta can reliably take out Deo-D in one shot except for Mega Heracross, and such teams usually have nothing as a safe switch in for it.
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-D: 310-370 (101.9 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-D: 270-318 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO <-- that is the most powerful Dark type physical attack in OU (IIRC) and it has a good chance to not OHKO.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-D: 278-330 (91.4 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO <-- most powerful special dark move in OU
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-D: 276-328 (90.7 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO <-- this barely does it, and this is with no SpD investment.
Mega Heracross is also a check to both Bisharp and Aegislash.
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Pin Missile
- Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
Yeah, so that. Earthquake can be replaced with Knock Off if you want, but you risk King's Shield shit. If you go full HP instead of speed you do worse against Bisharp, but few go Jolly.
If you're having trouble with shitty Deosharp HO teams (lmfao talking about banning swagplay before Deo-D,) try using Mega Heracross (and Rotom-W and/or Skarmory to deal with its bird problem.)
I'm serious. Nothing in the meta can reliably take out Deo-D in one shot except for Mega Heracross, and such teams usually have nothing as a safe switch in for it.
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-D: 310-370 (101.9 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-D: 270-318 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO <-- that is the most powerful Dark type physical attack in OU (IIRC) and it has a good chance to not OHKO.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-D: 278-330 (91.4 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO <-- most powerful special dark move in OU
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-D: 276-328 (90.7 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO <-- this barely does it, and this is with no SpD investment.
Mega Heracross is also a check to both Bisharp and Aegislash.
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Pin Missile
- Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
Yeah, so that. Earthquake can be replaced with Knock Off if you want, but you risk King's Shield shit. If you go full HP instead of speed you do worse against Bisharp, but few go Jolly.
Oh right that guy. Totally forgot.
Banded non-mega Heracross can also do it with with Mega horn.
Escaviler can but he's slow as shit.
I'm actually thinking a sub set would also be good. If they lead with Deo-D, it's pretty much a free sub. Deo-D gets rocks up or whatever but you're pretty much guaranteed two kills, and if they switch out they're not going to be doing so hot either.
Banded non-mega Heracross can also do it with with Mega horn.
Escaviler can but he's slow as shit.
I'm actually thinking a sub set would also be good. If they lead with Deo-D, it's pretty much a free sub. Deo-D gets rocks up or whatever but you're pretty much guaranteed two kills, and if they switch out they're not going to be doing so hot either.
Don't they carry seismic toss sometimes? I really thought that some do, or maybe its not standard. Otherwise sub escavalier might be a good idea. Also Mega Houndoom in Sun can do like 99% to 252/0 spdef deo-d as well.
Most Deosharp teams do not have Seismic Toss on Deo-D. They're strictly suicide leads (which means Houndoom wouldn't work since you need to spend a turn getting up sun.) Most of them are Rocks/Spikes/Magic Coat, and then Knock Off, T-wave, Taunt, or Toxic in the last slot. Seismic Toss is seen but it's not that common.
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